Ship of Fools: Christingle Service - does it have a future?

Thread: Christingle Service - does it have a future? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

Just putting the finishing touches to our forthcoming Christingle Service. And I'm wondering why we are bothering, if I am honest.

Some years ago, I knew of plenty of churches where Christingle was also a service that attracted lots of people and when the building would be packed. But I really don't know of any church now where that can be said.

Certainly here, no matter what we do, we get a very poor response. We've tried changing the day on which it is held, and the time. We've really pushed it hard by advertising in the local schools and around the local community. Nothing.

By contrast, the Crib Service on Christmas Eve doesn't get any advertising at all and each year the church is packed.

I know of a church not far from here that used to have so many people coming to their Christingle service that they had to use a local school sports hall (and make in excess of 300 Christingles!). They now can use their church building (which takes about 150) and don't get a full house. I'm not sure how many people come to the service who aren't already regular churchgoers.

So.....

Has Christingle had its day? Have other people experienced the same kind of decline in interest?

Do you have a successful Christingle Service, which attracts outsiders? If so, why do you think it is a success? When do you run it? How do you advertise it?

Unless we get a miraculous turnout this year, I'm inclined to stop doing it. We have lots of things happening in December - and lots of them are clearly attractive to those outside the normal church community. Why should we give ourselves extra work and hassle at an already hectic time of year for something that doesn't seem to be meeting a need any more?

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Packed with kids at our local shack, which is significant because the normal congo is about 20, nearly all over 65.

Posted by Hawk (# 14289) on :

Perhaps it's because 'Christingle' sounds a really silly word, it sounds a bit like you're tickling the baby Jesus.

Have you thought of using a less silly word for your service, like 'Candle Service' or 'Advent service'? I had no idea what it even was until I looked it up and I've been in churches all my life. I remember decorating an orange like that when I was in scouts but had no idea it was called a Christingle. What the man on the street thinks of it I hate to imagine.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

Its blibsy.

[ 07. December 2012, 15:21: Message edited by: ken ]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

It's probably just trending the wrong way at the moment. Like church-going itself.

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Its blibsy.

Sorry, ken. I've temporarily misplaced my Babel fish. Care to translate into English?

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Packed with kids at our local shack, which is significant because the normal congo is about 20, nearly all over 65.

So when is it held? What seems to be making the difference? And - perhaps importantly - how "Christmassy" is it?

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

Is this decline in attendance due to a loss of interest in Christingles per se? Or is it a symptom of a wider malaise of having lost touch with an increasing number of children and families? I suspect the latter.

We have Christingles as part of our Advent Sunday worship and numbers were OK-ish last week - certainly better than a "normal" Sunday.

I think Christingles work best at night (or at least twilight) - it can be magical. I remember going to a 4pm service at St. Paul's Cahedral when our son was small, it was excellent.

Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on :

My former church held the Christingle service at the beginning of Advent. I can't remember exactly how it was connected, but it always involved the Children's Society somehow. From memory, it was far more about the work of the Children's Society than about telling tales of how the christingle came to be or anything suchlike. Not very Christmassy at all. Little fabric purses were available in the church in the run up, and everyone was encouraged to take away a Christingle purse and return it as an offering in the service.

It was always very full - partly I suspect because we had the uniformed organisations in: Brownies, Cubs, Beavers & rainbows (probably also some Scouts & Guides). Also the church choir and music group were expected to turn out.

We don't do Christingle at my church in Scotland for which I am grateful. But YMMV.

[ 07. December 2012, 15:51: Message edited by: kingsfold ]

Posted by Pia (# 17277) on :

Last Christmas Eve, in our city-centre cathedral (not one of the big historic ones, though) the Christingle was packed - standing room only. I think that someone said we printed 500 orders of service, and we ran out of copies.

Posted by Agapetheo (# 16908) on :

Advent Sunday Christingle - well over 100 Christingles distributed ... whilst it is a parish service, two local schools one a church school, the other not bring children to 'perform'/sing etc so that draws in those children and their parents ... might be worth tapping up your local headteachers!!!

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :

Around here they're very popular. My local CoE church (weekly attendance c50) has about 200 attendees, last year it was closer to 250. They certainly don't have that number for any other Christmas Service.

Also, as odd as the name 'Christingle' is, it's immediately identifiable.

Posted by Laxton's Superba (# 228) on :

At the church in the village I live, the Christingle service is so popular that it has cloned itself and there are now 2 services, on Christmas Eve, at 2pm and 4pm. Both attract about 200 people 95% of whom are not regular churchgoers. The rest of the Christmas services (other than the ones attended en masse by the school children) are very poorly attended. It seems that people remember from year to year, and come back. In comparison, the Christingle service at the church I attend is held this Sunday after a craft workshop which includes a kind of Messy Church, and the service is attended by a maximum of 50. However our church has a thriving Sunday club and non-eucharistic Family Service, and excellent links with school and toddler groups. Funny old world.

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

I think the magic thing about yours, is Christams Eve. Most places I know who have a Christmas Eve service of any sort, aimed at children, it is popular service.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

No Christingle in my present place.

But in past parishes we used to do a Christingle service (Children's Society) round about candlemas time; or Epiphany. We linked in with the local primary schools. Seemed to work well.

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

We have never had Christingle, in fact I had never heard of it until on this site. It sounds a bit like the confectionery we call Fruit Tingles! I hope it doesn't catch on here as to me it sounds a rather strange and a dangerous event with kids playing with lighted candles.

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

What is a Christingle Service exactly?

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

My church doesn't have one but the biggest (in terms of congregation) CoE church in the town had theirs on Advent Sunday and was packed by all accounts - helped by the attendance of uniformed groups and kids from the local church schools.

I have never attended a Christingle service since I wasn't brought up in a churchgoing family and became a Christian as an adult, but all the churches that do Christingle services are packed when they have them - and I've been to some very poorly-attended crib services.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
What is a Christingle Service exactly?

As far as i have experienced it consists of a whole lots of words, some sung, and then the distribution of a whole lot of oranges with candles stuck into them. But I fear I may have missed something. The inimitable wiki is of course a more reliable source of information.

Posted by Liturgylover (# 15711) on :

Still a very popular and by all accounts packed out service round here. Most popular time seems to be 4pm on Sat or Sunday.

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :

I too get the feeling that enthusiasm for Christingles has waned. Once the risk-assessment people decided that sweets and candles were off-limits it became decidedly less fun.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

We have sweets and candles on ours ... and they get lit (the candles, not the sweets).

Although I did change the rather disorganised way we did it to make it both safer and more effective.

Posted by latecomer (# 8966) on :

I think local school involvement is key - we use the choir and hand-chime group from our primary school & have a packed church.

Oscar - re risk assessment. I often wonder how the Children's Society came up with a service so obviously likely to cause damage to children - sugar rush, sharp sticks and fire!

Posted by latecomer (# 8966) on :

re last post - sorry Amos not Oscar!

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Every church I've been part of has always had a well attended* Christingle. But, I'd never heard of a Childrens Society connection.

The current church held their first Christingle last year. On Christmas eve at 7pm. This year it'll be a bit later as the minister is also leading a Christingle at 6.30 at the other church she has charge of.

* 'Well attended' meaning many of the children associated with the church present - the children who come every week with their parents and about 30-50% of the grandkids of the older members. Often some members of the uniform organisations, but not the whole group turning up. I've never known kids without any church connection at all, eg: pupils at local schools.

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

In the various churches I've been a member of the popularity of christinlge has varied.

They have tended to be well attended to start with and then to wane as people get used to them - after all how many ways can you explain what a christingle means....

ONe of the churches stopped doing them and one has started doing them in the school during the day, therefore guaranteeing a whole school attendance..

Posted by SyNoddy (# 17009) on :

Not a huge fan of Christingle as its performed locally. Although I did turn out to help ram fruit and sweets onto several hundred cocktail sticks. My lack of enthusiasm stems from the very overt fundraising element, there is almost a `trade in your filled cardboard candle here in return for a pimp ed up orange" feel about the whole thing. No doubt that cause is very worthy and deserving but I'm uneasy about effectively charging families for possibly one of their very seldom experiences of 'church'.
But maybe that's just me.

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

If the Christingle service is on Christmas Eve, it is bound to get a good turn out, I think. We do a simple Crib Service in the afternoon of Christmas Eve and the church gets packed. But there is no place really, for the Christingle at that service, with confusing the two and making the whole thing much longer.

I do agree with the comments about how you can't really keep on explaining what a Christingle is. I think it has lost its novelty value.

We still have cocktail sticks, sweets and candles. To have a Christingle without those is daft. H&S reqs don't preclude such things - simply that you know that you have taken suitable precautions to minimise any danger.

It was the Children's Society that really introduced the Christingle into the UK, so to have a Christingle Service WITHOUT reference to the Children's Society seems a little wrong to me. Having said that, I do think that their worship resources and suggestions are pretty stale.

As for getting involvement from the schools. We have tried - believe me. But I think (around here anyway), we struggle against the fact that it is no longer "new" or interesting, and also there is a growing wariness from school staff about too much church involvement. I certainly now find it harder to go into schools regularly to take assemblies than I did 5+ years ago.

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

Christingle services have gone a bit stale I think. There was a glut of them about 10 years ago here, and only a few places keep up the tradition now. Part of it is that it centres around the idea of a procession in the church and kids generally do it under duress of their parents who want to see the pretty procession. I've seen it done well in a service of twenty minutes where the sweets on four sticks were explained as the Gospel going out to the four corners of the world rather than the seasons, which I think is a slightly better metaphor for the kids. But I've also seen it done over the course of an hour, which was terminally dull.

Crib services on Christmas Eve, where the children actually play a role in the creation of the crib with bits of the story read for each item put in it and a short prayer at the end and maybe two hymns seems a far better and more atmospheric service - partly because it's interactive in a way that the kids want to interact.

Generally, I think if you can do it well in about 20 to 30 minutes, the kids stay engaged and enjoy it. Too many times I've seen kids sitting bored out of their tree by endless hymns, long readings and intercessions aimed at the adults rather than at them.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

We never used to have a Christingle service, but our Cubs/Beavers leader requested one a couple of years ago, and we have had a congo of about 100 adults + kiddies for those years (our ASA is 30-35.....).

Ours is on a Thursday evening at the end of the Scouts/Cubs/Beavers term, IYSWIM. We use the material available in Common Worship,
and this year I have altered the service slightly so that the Christingles are not lit until towards the end of the service (thereby reducing the fire risk......!). The appropriate Advent Candle will, of course, be lit at the beginning.

I gather that the service is also to be used as the occasion for investing some new Cubs/Beavers, which ISTM is a Good Idea (in that it brings the parents along as well).

We value our links with the uniformed organisations, given the disastrous mess our last priest-in-charge made of them, so we pull out all the stops for this service.

To be liturgically correct, I have no doubt that Father will wear his purple stole....

Ian J.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

Sorry to double-post, but perhaps I should just say that we also have a Crib Service (with ad-hoc Nativity Play this year!) on Christmas Eve. Perhaps aimed at a slightly younger age-group, but nevertheless popular (50 or so adults and kiddies last year, IIRC).

Our Carols & Lessons, BTW, is very trad. - well-known (I hope) carols and 7 readings from....* gasp*..... the KJV ( [Eek!]

)

Ian J.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

I wish it would die out - it's tacky.

However, while the Children's Society promotes it, it will probably last.

The pavement down the hill from one of our churches is always awash with discarded oranges afterwards. We tried to abolish the 'service' but the old people in the congregation liked it and wanted back. So is it for the kids or for nostalgic grown ups who haven't quite grown up?

Posted by roybart (# 17357) on :

Originally posted by leo:

quote:
The pavement down the hill from one of our churches is always awash with discarded oranges afterwards.

Perhaps you should create a ritual blessing of the Christingles. Blessed items are not so easily tossed away. I still have a small box of religious tat from my childhood, which I fear to dispose of because I have feeling that they were blessed.

[ 08. December 2012, 17:42: Message edited by: roybart ]

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

And that poses a question which could derail this entire thread: what does it mean to "bless" something and is an ontological change thereby caused?

Posted by roybart (# 17357) on :

Sorry, I did not mean either to raise a serious religious question or to derail the thread when I posted about blessings. I should certainly have ended my previous post with a [Biased]

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The pavement down the hill from one of our churches is always awash with discarded oranges afterwards. We tried to abolish the 'service' but the old people in the congregation liked it and wanted back. So is it for the kids or for nostalgic grown ups who haven't quite grown up?

That, of course, is always the fine line you tread with children-focussed liturgy, not just at Christmas!

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I wish it would die out - it's tacky.

However, while the Children's Society promotes it, it will probably last.

The pavement down the hill from one of our churches is always awash with discarded oranges afterwards. We tried to abolish the 'service' but the old people in the congregation liked it and wanted back. So is it for the kids or for nostalgic grown ups who haven't quite grown up?

My theory is that the people who are most demanding it are indeed nostalgic - looking back to the days when you could run a service like this and have the church packed with people who otherwise didn't come to church. Keeping the service going gives them a good feeling that they are - somehow - reaching out into the local community. They just haven't noticed that outsiders (on the whole) stopped being interested some years ago.

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch.
My theory is that the people who are most demanding it are indeed nostalgic... They just haven't noticed that outsiders (on the whole) stopped being interested some years ago.

The extremely popular service I mentioned is mostly non-churchgoing children and their families.
This is clearly very variable from church to church. Someone mentioned cubs and scouts upthread; the above church has uniformed organisations. Could that be something to do with it? Not just school involvement, but the family and siblings of scouts and guides?

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I wish it would die out - it's tacky.

However, while the Children's Society promotes it, it will probably last.

The pavement down the hill from one of our churches is always awash with discarded oranges afterwards. We tried to abolish the 'service' but the old people in the congregation liked it and wanted back. So is it for the kids or for nostalgic grown ups who haven't quite grown up?
My theory is that the people who are most demanding it are indeed nostalgic - looking back to the days when you could run a service like this and have the church packed with people who otherwise didn't come to church. Keeping the service going gives them a good feeling that they are - somehow - reaching out into the local community. They just haven't noticed that outsiders (on the whole) stopped being interested some years ago.

Far from it. It's the only service in the year where the local gaff has standing room only and is packed with outsiders. It's been held all sorts of times from early December to Christmas Eve; always packs them in.

The only factor I can think of that might explain the popularity which is clearly not universal is that the local school (CofE) hands out the candle collection boxes a couple of weeks before which are then collected in during the service.

[ 09. December 2012, 07:40: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The pavement down the hill from one of our churches is always awash with discarded oranges afterwards. We tried to abolish the 'service' but the old people in the congregation liked it and wanted back. So is it for the kids or for nostalgic grown ups who haven't quite grown up?
That, of course, is always the fine line you tread with children-focussed liturgy, not just at Christmas!

Yes - you might get kids there and they might behave like kids. Not necessarily good kids, either.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

Children's Society Christingle

Amongst the resources there is usually some note on the origin of Christingle - Moravian Church tradition, I think?

I like the Children's Society approach, firstly because it raises funds for a good organization, secondly because you get loads of great materials and information for a service with substance, as well as oranges. We always found the service was definitely the one that attracted whole families and non-family people across the age ranges. The making of the Christingles was also part of the annual fun; maybe an afternoon at school with the kids, or in the church hall with a group of volunteers, spearing dolly mixtures and jelly babies onto cock-tail sticks. Oranges usually donated by local grocers.

It is a rather labour-intensive service, as you can imagine, but it can be very special and lovely. (With the right supervision!)

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

Link to Moravian Origin of Christingle (Scroll down a short way.)

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Children's Society Christingle

Amongst the resources there is usually some note on the origin of Christingle - Moravian Church tradition, I think?

I like the Children's Society approach, firstly because it raises funds for a good organization, secondly because you get loads of great materials and information for a service with substance, as well as oranges. We always found the service was definitely the one that attracted whole families and non-family people across the age ranges. The making of the Christingles was also part of the annual fun; maybe an afternoon at school with the kids, or in the church hall with a group of volunteers, spearing dolly mixtures and jelly babies onto cock-tail sticks. Oranges usually donated by local grocers.

It is a rather labour-intensive service, as you can imagine, but it can be very special and lovely. (With the right supervision!)

In my aunt and uncle's church, the leftover/used oranges get made into marmalade which then gets sold at the church's Christmas fair, which I think is a lovely idea.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

We had our Christingle Service tonight with our Scouts/Cubs/Beavers in attendance - 60 adults and 65 kiddies. We ran out of service sheets and Christingles - the leaders having miscalculated slightly......

Never mind - a mixture of the formal, informal and chaotic, but none the worse for that (and all the better for the mulled wine that followed - for the adults, of course).

This has become a major item in our annual programme. We value highly our links with the uniformed organisations, whose leaders work extremely hard, often with little support from parents.

Ian J.

Posted by ExclamationMark (# 14715) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
In my aunt and uncle's church, the leftover/used oranges get made into marmalade which then gets sold at the church's Christmas fair, which I think is a lovely idea.

That's what Mrs Mark has just done - we welcomed over 100 people last Sunday afternoon. That's in an inner city multi cultural area.

[Edit: UBB]

[ 16. December 2012, 09:20: Message edited by: Zappa ]

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

It still seems to be popular at our place, especially amongst young families. Although it is true that the crib service is MORE popular still - for the last few years we've had to put on two to fit them all in. There's something very special about going to church on Christmas Eve with young children....

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I wish it would die out - it's tacky.

Hear hear, I'm glad I'm not the only one. My children went to a CofE school and parents were always asked to attend a christingle service at candlemas (for a change). I hated it, but the children loved it - especially toasting the sweets over the candle. I can't describe how relieved I was when they left that school and I didn't have to listen to that ghastly description of what all the bits of the orange represented, as though it was some ancient tradition shrouded in mystery. In reality it's just a modern invention made up to look like some meaningful ritual. [Projectile]

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I wish it would die out - it's tacky.

Hear hear, I'm glad I'm not the only one. My children went to a CofE school and parents were always asked to attend a christingle service at candlemas (for a change). I hated it, but the children loved it - especially toasting the sweets over the candle. I can't describe how relieved I was when they left that school and I didn't have to listen to that ghastly description of what all the bits of the orange represented, as though it was some ancient tradition shrouded in mystery. In reality it's just a modern invention made up to look like some meaningful ritual.

That might be because it's a children's service explicitly intended to appeal to children. You (I assume) don't like Waybuloo or In the Night Garden for similar reasons.

Posted by Ophicleide16 (# 16344) on :

Because it's primarily a service for children, I expect it's often looked down on by the 9 Lessons crowd. As far as the man on the street goes, Carols by Candlelight and Midnight Mass are the interest-generating events.

Christingle can be dreadfully tacky when done wrong. The priest at one of my previous churches used to make a giant christingle with a pumpkin, a paschal sized candle and packets of Fry's Turkish Delight on Barbeque sticks.

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :

I like the pumpkin idea! Maybe we'll do that next year, and use it to light all the little Christingles from......

[Two face]

Ian J.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

I am just back from a lovely Christingle service at our (Methodist) Church. The candles were all on the communion table - and each child was given a 'Christingle kit' to take home so that they could make their own.

One of the highlights was a children's choir who all sang beautifully.

[Angel]

Posted by Avila (# 15541) on :

Small rural chapel, held at the end of a weekend Tree Festival. We ran out of seats with some faces new to church.

For the pst few years we have done self assembly Christingles during the service - keeps people engaged and saves all the prep beforehand or tensions about how many to make.

We don't have the physical space to light them but we give out glow sticks for the lights down bit at the end of the service, and they can light them at home later.

It is a chapel that has a very informal tradition and this service fits in with that. It is the only Christingle service I take as what is appropriate is different for each congregation and context.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
I hated it, but the children loved it - especially toasting the sweets over the candle. I can't describe how relieved I was when they left that school and I didn't have to listen to that ghastly description of what all the bits of the orange represented, as though it was some ancient tradition shrouded in mystery. In reality it's just a modern invention made up to look like some meaningful ritual.

Rather sad that the 'children loved it' but it remained meaningless to you. Do you think it's possible to find value in something that children enjoy even though we grown-ups would rather be doing our own naturally more 'meaningful' stuff instead?

If I hated Christingle as you do, I'd be glad, too, that there were no more opportunities to suffer it. But I think I would also feel sorry for the children missing out on what had obviously given them pleasure.

By the way, if you read the link I gave above as to the origins of Christingle you'll find they go back a few hundred years. Of course, I'm sure then it wouldn't've looked much like it does now. But I'd take a bet that the better proportion of all church worship doesn't much look now like it did 'then'.

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :

We are having a DIY Christingle on Christmas Eve...I thought I had been innoovative and we were doing something new!

So, all ye who have been this way before, have you any tips or hints for DIY Christingles?

Posted by Avila (# 15541) on :

quote:
Originally posted by St Everild:
We are having a DIY Christingle on Christmas Eve...I thought I had been innoovative and we were doing something new!

So, all ye who have been this way before, have you any tips or hints for DIY Christingles?

1.Precut crosses in the top of oranges for pushing candles in.
2. have plenty of sweets and raisins as not all will make it to top of the cocktail sticks!
3. We use red tape rather than ribbon
4. have as many sets of stuff as suits your layout and size so that things can be passed around efficently
5. Enjoy, go with the flow and don't worry about dropped raisins, cocktail sticks etc - there is a time to tidy up and a time not to stress about it!

ETA: There is nothing new under the sun, and all the best ideas are thought of lots of times by different people!

[ 16. December 2012, 18:54: Message edited by: Avila ]

Posted by Hairy Biker (# 12086) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Rather sad that the 'children loved it' but it remained meaningless to you. Do you think it's possible to find value in something that children enjoy even though we grown-ups would rather be doing our own naturally more 'meaningful' stuff instead?

If I hated Christingle as you do, I'd be glad, too, that there were no more opportunities to suffer it. But I think I would also feel sorry for the children missing out on what had obviously given them pleasure.

The children loved it because they got to play with lighted candles and toast little jelly sweets in a flame. They get the same pleasure from toasting marshmallows on a barbeque; and they probably learn more about the love of God in doing so than they do from an orange with a bit of red ribbon round it.

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

We do self-assembly during the service. Carols and readings are interspersed with explanations of what each stage means.

Our normal church layout is cafe-style anyway, so it's easy to put the stuff on each table.

It's not aimed specifically at children in our church, more an all-age thing. We do seem to get more people than normal, as we did at the carol service yesterday , but that is probably because at this time of year more regulars will be willing to invite people, and more guests willing to accept.

Then again, we meet at 4.30 pm in a building with big windows right on the high street, so we often get people randomly wandering in (not much to do round here after tge supermarket closes!)

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Rather sad that the 'children loved it' but it remained meaningless to you. Do you think it's possible to find value in something that children enjoy even though we grown-ups would rather be doing our own naturally more 'meaningful' stuff instead?

If I hated Christingle as you do, I'd be glad, too, that there were no more opportunities to suffer it. But I think I would also feel sorry for the children missing out on what had obviously given them pleasure.

The children loved it because they got to play with lighted candles and toast little jelly sweets in a flame. They get the same pleasure from toasting marshmallows on a barbeque; and they probably learn more about the love of God in doing so than they do from an orange with a bit of red ribbon round it.

Misery guts. It's their annual reward for sitting through the usual tedious Sunday morning ritual borefest.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Rather sad that the 'children loved it' but it remained meaningless to you. Do you think it's possible to find value in something that children enjoy even though we grown-ups would rather be doing our own naturally more 'meaningful' stuff instead?

If I hated Christingle as you do, I'd be glad, too, that there were no more opportunities to suffer it. But I think I would also feel sorry for the children missing out on what had obviously given them pleasure.

The children loved it because they got to play with lighted candles and toast little jelly sweets in a flame. They get the same pleasure from toasting marshmallows on a barbeque; and they probably learn more about the love of God in doing so than they do from an orange with a bit of red ribbon round it.

And?

When some people go to church they love it because they get to see how many candles are lit up in the sanctuary this morning, what colour the fipperies on Father's frocks are; or how slick the power-point hymnal is running; how high they can raise their hands, how offensively radical the sermon gets, or how many tongues they can speak; or how many dark, nasty critical thoughts they can think about their neighbour while shaking hands with them during the Peace!

At least a kid innocently enjoying itself (albeit at some risk of setting the place alight) is more likely to bring a smile to God's face than a lot of the usual crapulous self-absorbed half-hearted bosh that's on offer in a lot of 'proper' worship.

And if they're learning more about the love of God by toasting their sweeties on the Christingle (and where is their supervision, may I ask?) then they're probably doing better than the average 'bah, pooh, humbug' Scrooges surrounding them. [Big Grin]

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I wish it would die out - it's tacky.

However, while the Children's Society promotes it, it will probably last.

The pavement down the hill from one of our churches is always awash with discarded oranges afterwards. We tried to abolish the 'service' but the old people in the congregation liked it and wanted back. So is it for the kids or for nostalgic grown ups who haven't quite grown up?

Oh yes, I agree. Perhaps that is the meaning of Ken's 'blipsy', a combination of tacky and temporary intrusion from a slightly different culture? (That might be said of Benediction in the CofE also, but unusually I don't want to be naughty today).

And the Children's Society is particularly good at self promotion.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sebby:

And the Children's Society is particularly good at self promotion.

Isn't that a good thing? [Confused]

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

This is all at odds with the season of goodwill to my mind.

I've never been to a Christingle in my life, but I'm not the proposed constituency. As an Anglo Catholic I'm perfectly happy with outrageous camp in church, provided their is some serious dogmatic rationale, and you can't get more serious than the dogma of the Incarnation. A Christingle service would seem to meet both criteria.

Maybe hairy biker went to a particularly wet and unfocussed service - it has been known.

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