Ship of Fools: Beer thread redux

Thread: Beer thread redux Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

Am enjoying a local microbrew IPA from a nearby college town where our daughter lives and my wife got her MA....

Posted by Dormouse (# 5954) on :

As a fan of the band Elbow, MrD was happy to receive a case of their "Build a Rocket,Boys" beer, created by Robinsons of Manchester.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

An important consideration for me is the strength of the beer. Often a pint is going to be 2.6 units, and in general I would like to stick within the recommended drinking limits. That's 2-3 units per day for women and 3-4 for men. I think it is a shame you can't easily get less powerful beer nowadays - did mild used to be weaker ?

Otherwise as woman, its going to have to be shandy if I want more than a pint. It is difficult to make a pint last an evening - and I like stout [Frown]

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :

I've been saving the Ruby Anniversary Ale from Chiltern Brewery, brewed for CAMRA's 40th anniversary, for a special occasion. I've already had a couple of bottles (it came in a pack of five with a special glass). It's strong, at 7.2%, but wonderfully complex, with lots of different hops in it. Definitely one for sipping over an evening, and I will be looking out for other beers from Chiltern brewery in the future.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

We have a local brewhouse/restaurant called Bull and Bones; their Maroon Effect Ale is excellent.

Moo

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

Hmm, not what I thought.

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :

Lately, I've been enjoying CobbleStone Stout .

One of the few local beers with a draft widget. And I like Stout.

For St. Patrick's day, went with my Mum to the Granite Brewery. They had some special casks made for the day - Vanilla Stout. YUM

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Otherwise as woman, its going to have to be shandy if I want more than a pint. It is difficult to make a pint last an evening - and I like stout

While neither are stout, Manns Brown Ale is a measly 2% (also making bottles very cheap), and much more favoursome than you'd expect from the strength (cooks well, too, apparently - ideal for snake and ale pie). Jennings Bitter is, I think, 3.5% and much more flavoured than most bitters - Jennings beers tend to have a distinctive smokiness, which this has. On a lighter note, Brakspear bitter is only about 3.4%, and I think Hooky Bitter from Hook Norton is in a similar area. Sadly, finding them may be the hard bit...

How often do you head out for that bevvy? If it's only every now and then, the occasional night with more than one in is unlikely to do much harm (though IANADr!)especially if you have a couple of dry days between them. Every night would be a different matter.

AG

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

I have to agree with Sandemaniac. Strong beer is not necesarily better beer. I find too many ales & beer of more than 4% quite sticky and heavy even when served cold. Genuine bitter was often brewed close to 3% because men doing physically hard work needed something that went down easily and didn't incapacitate them or leave them with a sore head in the morning. A few pints of a light, hoppy bitter, served at what was room temperature before central heating came along (ie, about 52F/11C) is very pleasant.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I always remember visiting the glass works in what was still Czechoslovakia. The glass blowers drank gallons, out of flagons which they produced in a matter of minutes - and probably melted down again. Thing was, they were way better designs than the fussy, ornate, dated stuff they were working on.

The same trip included a visit to the Staropramen brewery which concluded with drinking the beer, piped straight from the cellars. Our guide - a moonlighting lecturer from Prague Uni - remarked that it would take him about an hour to earn the price of the glass. Price in UK equivalent? - about 10 pence.

That was all twenty years ago, and I suspect both wages and prices have caught up since - but the Czech beers are still some of the best I've tasted.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

Weissbier is the best beer ever. End of.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Otherwise as woman, its going to have to be shandy if I want more than a pint. It is difficult to make a pint last an evening - and I like stout
While neither are stout, Manns Brown Ale is a measly 2% (also making bottles very cheap), and much more favoursome than you'd expect from the strength (cooks well, too, apparently - ideal for snake and ale pie). Jennings Bitter is, I think, 3.5% and much more flavoured than most bitters - Jennings beers tend to have a distinctive smokiness, which this has. On a lighter note, Brakspear bitter is only about 3.4%, and I think Hooky Bitter from Hook Norton is in a similar area. Sadly, finding them may be the hard bit...

How often do you head out for that bevvy? If it's only every now and then, the occasional night with more than one in is unlikely to do much harm (though IANADr!)especially if you have a couple of dry days between them. Every night would be a different matter.

AG

Thanks - I'll see if I can source some Manns' (I like brown ale - goes back to my uni days in Stoke).

I don't go out often - but then, over 5 units is technically binge drinking. And I give my liver enough abuse by being overweight.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

Ooh look, carried by Asda [Smile]

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

Canada is really not a bad place, but the beer situation was desperate for a long time - lots of vile mass produced stuff that all tastes the same. Now we have the Grand River Brewing Company in Cambridge, and I haven't touched the other stuff since they opened. Good, hoppy old fashioned beers with an alcohol content that doesn't leave me completely stupid after the first half litre, and a Plowman's (that's how they spell it) Ale that's as fine a beer as you will find on this planet. It takes a little of the urgency out of getting back to Scotland for a pint of heavy.

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

Just drinking a Golden Sheep, last night I had an Oakham's Citra (dh had a bottle of Hooky). I like my ales either golden or hoppy.
I'm about to buy beer kits of Woodforde's Wherry and Sundew, I've heard they turn out very well and I fancy a go at brewing my own. The Wherry's for my other half.

[ 31. March 2013, 22:10: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]

Posted by Try (# 4951) on :

I bought a six-pack of Conway's 'Irish' Ale from the Great Lakes Brewery to end my lenten fast from alcohol. It's good, though slightly hoppier then I would expect from a British or Irish style ale. It tastes better slightly chilled then it does from the fridge.

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

Just tucking into an Oakham's JHB, another hoppy beer with a frothy head. Not tried this brewery before, their beers would seem to make nice summer beers, very refreshing.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

Strong beers are a problem here as well. I was looking through the offerings at a local brewpub, and you would be hard pressed to find anything below 5%. I can think of one place that makes a mild, but in general, you aren't going to find too many takers for low gravity beers, which is a shame. Brewers are beginning to put special release beers in casks, however, which is fantastic for those of us who love real ale.

I have become rather obsessed with Saison and other rustic farmhouse style ales. Another beer that is supposed to be a working man's refreshment but comes out at 7% in the hands of American brewers. A few restaurants keep them on tap around here, which is fantastic, as they go very well with white meats, fish, pungent cheese, and spicy foods. I'll be spending part of next weekend on my second attempt at a home brewed Saison, this time making use of Motueka hops from New Zealand.

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :

We get a good range here, the locally brewed mild is about 3.2% and there is a recession version at 2.4% (and more importantly £1.30 a pint) which you can drink all day and still cross the river on the pipe bridge without falling in. Personally I like to drink not too much but quite strong. I usually go for the 6-9% ales but only a couple of pints a night.

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

At New Year my dad gave me some of this mocha stout. Lovely.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

Sir Kevin, I just tried Stone's Cali-Belgique IPA from your neck of the woods. Hop heavy Belgians can be a tough balance, but I have to say that Stone did an admirable job.

Another West Coast take on a Belgian style that I love is from San Diego's Green Flash, Reyon Vert. Imagine Orval with a heavy hand of West Coast hops, and you will get an idea of what to expect. I would really like to age a bottle for six months to a year, to see how the Brett develops over time. But it's just so good that I haven't found the patience yet.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

Belgian style?

Anyone who has been to Belgium and samples even a small part of the beers knows that the beers from there are very diverse.

There is no such thing as Belgian style.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

Indeed.

The American Beer Judge Certification Program has something called "Belgian Golden Strong" in their list of beer styles. That term was apparently coined by beer writer Michael Jackson to describe Duvel. You notice that most of the beers listed as examples have devilish names, and are noted for their light color and pear notes; in other words, if you are trying to brew a beer that tastes like Duvel, it's a Belgian Golden Strong.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Belgian style?

Anyone who has been to Belgium and samples even a small part of the beers knows that the beers from there are very diverse.

There is no such thing as Belgian style.

How can the nation that has given us Plastic Bertrand, Rene Magritte, the saxophone and Moules et Frites be said to have no style?

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

It'd not that the Belgians have no style, but that they produce so many different styles, and produce them in high quality, that makes it hard to pin the buggers down.

In Belgium I go for the dark beers, or ta fruit beer with a desert*, neither of which come under the US description of Belgian beer.

*That would be ice cream with chocolate sauce with a sparkling raspberry lambic brew.

Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :

The distinctive thing about Belgian beers is the use of wild yeasts, which does make them different from other beers--though also from each other. There's not one particular flavor profile, since wild yeast is so variable.

I must say that, much as I love Northwest beers in general, I've noticed a disturbing trend toward overhopping in recent years. There's an obnoxious macho quality to it sometimes, like guys who boast about how many Scoville units their favorite host sauce rates. It's not about how bitter you can stand it, it's about the balance between malt and hops, which is getting lost in some quarters.

Posted by DonLogan2 (# 15608) on :

Although I have a love of Czechoslovakian beers, Pilsner Urquell in particular, I have managed to secure some cans of Woodeforde`s Wherry to brew at home so am a happy chappy.

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

quote:
Originally posted by DonLogan2:
Although I have a love of Czechoslovakian beers, Pilsner Urquell in particular, I have managed to secure some cans of Woodeforde`s Wherry to brew at home so am a happy chappy.

Just made mine up this morning [Smile]

I'll do the Sundew when the Wherry has brewed.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

My wife's parish church has another beer-tasting coming up soon: I hope it does not interfere with our Atkins diet too much!

Last beer I had was a "half and half" as the Irish call it. In England it is a "Black and Tan."

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

Carbs be damned: I am enjoying the first of two pints of Corona Extra, my second-favourite Mexican beer while listening to the 6 O' Clock News! My favourite is Negra Modelo which is a very dark and heavy ale, but not easily sourced at the grocery store in the large bottles I prefer.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

Negra Modelo is a lager, not an ale. A Vienna lager, in fact; Vienna lager is apparently rather hard to find in Austria, but it came to Mexico at the turn of the century, and has remained popular there ever since. I do agree that it is quite tasty. Victoria is another harder to find Mexican Vienna lager that I suggest you search out. And although some beer snobs will pick on anyone who likes light colored Mexican beer, there is something about a Pacifico on a hot summer day that cannot be replicated with any ale on the planet. I'll be in Cabo in May, and pale lagers are high on my list of drinks to enjoy there.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

I should add that a few years ago, a very controversial memo on spotting drug smugglers in federal camp sites was leaked, which suggested looking for people drinking Mexican beer and eating tortillas (seriously). Given that I frequently drink Modelo out of a can on camping trips, usually while enjoying a taco, I started to wonder if I was being watched.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Negra Modelo is a lager, not an ale. A Vienna lager, in fact; Vienna lager is apparently rather hard to find in Austria, but it came to Mexico at the turn of the century, and has remained popular there ever since. I do agree that it is quite tasty. Victoria is another harder to find Mexican Vienna lager that I suggest you search out. And although some beer snobs will pick on anyone who likes light colored Mexican beer, there is something about a Pacifico on a hot summer day that cannot be replicated with any ale on the planet. I'll be in Cabo in May, and pale lagers are high on my list of drinks to enjoy there.

I did not know that! I will seek out Victoria - it is available here. I remember drinking Pacifico nearly 30 years ago at my favourite Mexican restaurant......

That said, we went to the cafe at the local art museum and I had two micro-brews: a dark ale and a passable IPA from the same brewery - both were quite good!

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
An important consideration for me is the strength of the beer. Often a pint is going to be 2.6 units, and in general I would like to stick within the recommended drinking limits. That's 2-3 units per day for women and 3-4 for men. I think it is a shame you can't easily get less powerful beer nowadays - did mild used to be weaker ?

Otherwise as woman, its going to have to be shandy if I want more than a pint. It is difficult to make a pint last an evening - and I like stout

Sod recommended daily amounts. If we followed them strictly no one would ever get merry. Commonsense is the key. Sometimes we can have a little more and sometimes a little less.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

Last summer I went on a tour of the Fullers brewery. Can recommend it and the tasting session afterwards was pretty cool. I do like my ales. I do like the complex flavours of the older stronger ales but the weaker ones are nice too. I like London Pride which is a good well balanced ale. I like those Belgian dark ales. I tried an ale from the Orthodox Valamo monastery here in Finland which I liked very much too.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
An important consideration for me is the strength of the beer. Often a pint is going to be 2.6 units, and in general I would like to stick within the recommended drinking limits. That's 2-3 units per day for women and 3-4 for men. I think it is a shame you can't easily get less powerful beer nowadays - did mild used to be weaker ?

Otherwise as woman, its going to have to be shandy if I want more than a pint. It is difficult to make a pint last an evening - and I like stout
Sod recommended daily amounts. If we followed them strictly no one would ever get merry. Commonsense is the key. Sometimes we can have a little more and sometimes a little less.

I live alone, I watch my intake because it is so easy for it to creep up - and to come to rely on it as a stressbuster.

Tough day, come home and have a G&T - pour generously so maybe a double - beer or cider with dinner, then maybe a nightcap ? That could be six units. OK as a one off, but start doing it every day and that's 40 units a week. That's above the danger level for developing long term dependence.

I see people with alcohol dependence in the course of my professional work, perhaps that is what makes me so wary.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

I understand where you're coming from, of course, and if you find it the best thing for you then you should do it. I guess my point was that guidelines are only that, guides, so that we can use common sense so that we can assess what is bet for us. This I now see is what you have done. [Smile]

Posted by TurquoiseTastic (# 8978) on :

Does anyone here brew their own beer? I would love to give it a go but have no experience. Any tips on good books to read, essential equipment to buy, where inside/outside the house to keep the brewing beer?

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

I've made a few brews. I would start with beer kits. You can't really go wrong with them as long as all your equipment has been sterilised and you've followed the instructions. You can make some pretty good brews with them. One of the things you have to decide is are you going to go with bottles or a barrel. Bottled beer lasts longer but it's quite a lot more work. Barrels, on the other hand, are easy but the beer doesn't last as long and after a couple of weeks can start to take bitter. If you go for a barrel I would advise not to use a large barrel. I bought a 25 litre barrel a soon realised it was too large. As to where to store it, while it's fermenting room temperature is fine as long as it's not too hot. Once the second fermentation process is over a dry cool place is the best for storage, a cellar if you have one.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
Does anyone here brew their own beer? I would love to give it a go but have no experience. Any tips on good books to read, essential equipment to buy, where inside/outside the house to keep the brewing beer?

We had a brewing thread not so long ago. You may find something of interest there.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Last summer I went on a tour of the Fullers brewery. Can recommend it and the tasting session afterwards was pretty cool. I do like my ales. I do like the complex flavours of the older stronger ales but the weaker ones are nice too. I like London Pride which is a good well balanced ale.

There is a bar near my house that has four different kinds of Fullers (Pride, ESB, London Porter, and Lancer IPA) on cask. Another bar near my church has Pride and ESB, along with OK Indian food- I used to go for a ESB and a Saag before choir.

Last spring, I became obsessed with the Gale's brewery, despite the fact that I have never tasted their product. They have apparently been taken over by Fullers, but their yeast is available to brewers in the States thanks to the Hale's Brewery in Seattle, and I have a few recipes for clones in a book. Any sign of their brews at the Fullers brewery?

Last weekend, I had Rochefort 8 and 10 for the first time. I slightly preferred the 8, but both were lovely- so much dried fruit flavor that you could have thought it was a dessert wine, but for the texture.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
There is a bar near my house that has four different kinds of Fullers (Pride, ESB, London Porter, and Lancer IPA) on cask. Another bar near my church has Pride and ESB, along with OK Indian food- I used to go for a ESB and a Saag before choir.

Cool. A combination made in heaven: good beer and a Ruby Murray.

quote:
Last spring, I became obsessed with the Gale's brewery, despite the fact that I have never tasted their product. They have apparently been taken over by Fullers, but their yeast is available to brewers in the States thanks to the Hale's Brewery in Seattle, and I have a few recipes for clones in a book. Any sign of their brews at the Fullers brewery?

I can't remember to be honest but I shall have to look out of it. It's always nice to try different beers.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

Don't write of a brewery on one beer.

One of my favourite breweries is Copper Dragon in Skipton. They make a fantastic range of beers.

Except for Scotts 1816.

Nothing wrong with it except it isn't to my taste. But I'd rather risk having the odd pint I don't like from a brewery that makes distinctive flavoured ales than drink the bland rubbish that the large breweries make. And copper Dragon make Golden Pippin, beautiful.

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :

Another one for Doublethink!

Moorhouse's Black Cat - a dark mild at 3.4%, but flavoursome with it.

As for ex-Gales beers, I know Fullers have brewed and sold Gales HSB - a dark, strong beer. I loved it, but had to stop drinking it as I felt really drained the day afterwards - more than just a hangover, a total lack of energy. I've never known another beer do the same. Getting arseholed, yes, but one particular beer doing it every time even if only have a couple, no.

AG

[ 12. April 2013, 20:49: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

I had a lovely Hawaiian blonde Hefeweisen at the local Irish pub yesterday afternoon: something about a wave and it appealed to me because I had surfed their when I was at university. I still surf, but except for 2007 when I hired a board and wetsuit near Land's End in Cornwall, I've not been further than San Diego!

Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :

Ooh! I love Moorehouse's Black Cat!

And I've just been up to the local real ale pub and tried a new Wychwood beer - Jester Jack, light, golden and very pleasant.

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
Last summer I went on a tour of the Fullers brewery. Can recommend it and the tasting session afterwards was pretty cool. I do like my ales. I do like the complex flavours of the older stronger ales but the weaker ones are nice too. I like London Pride which is a good well balanced ale.

I've heard that Fullers have 2 different recipes for each of their ales - one for the beer they supply to their own pubs and one for non Fullers houses. The ones in the Fullers tied houses being superior, the other being slightly less good quality but easier to look after as they don't trust non-Fullers landlords to keep the good stuff properly. Don't know if that's true though.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Just back from the south coast (of England). Definitely beer country. We stopped at an off-licence in Emsworth to pick up some wine. The selection was pretty average - but the beers! A whole wall of stuff, most of which I'd never heard of, and many of them local. Including a chilli beer.

We marked our one evening on the Isle of Wight with a couple of pints of Vectis Viper.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

Had a Hawaiian hefeweisen twice this week: tasty!

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I've heard that Fullers have 2 different recipes for each of their ales - one for the beer they supply to their own pubs and one for non Fullers houses. The ones in the Fullers tied houses being superior, the other being slightly less good quality but easier to look after as they don't trust non-Fullers landlords to keep the good stuff properly. Don't know if that's true though.

I don't know what the recipe change would be. Fullers is famous in the brewing world for using a parti-gyle mash to create some of its beers. Parti-gyle is an old technique for creating two similar beers of different strengths- you mash a large amount of malted grain, and then collect two worts, one made up of the concentrated early runnings to make a strong beer, and another of the less concentrated later runnings to make a weaker beer. Fullers apparently makes the two different beers, and then blends those beers to create beers of four different strengths, of which ESB and Pride are the second and third in order of potency.

Maybe there is a packaging difference, but I don't know how a recipe change would make one easier to store. The recipe is only a small part of what makes a beer taste the way it does.

Posted by quantpole (# 8401) on :

I don't really believe that thing with Fullers. Seems like an awful lot of effort and I'm not sure how changing the recipe a bit would affect how well it lasted.

Anyway, to get a few things off my chest:

- Mild does not mean weak, it means fresh as opposed to aged, though the few milds available now do tend to be pretty weak.
- 150 years ago, beers were typically much stronger than they are now. 6 or 7% abv and higher was not unusual. You can get that sort of strength now but it is rather specialist. People also drank a lot lot more than we do now. Small beer was weak, and was drunk by children as it was safer than water. Beers became weaker in the 20th century mainly because the wars limited the amount of barley that could be used in brewing, and it never recovered to the pre-war strengths. (Also interesting to note that 'premium' lagers have reduced in strength over the years. Supposedly this is to be healthier, but really it's to reduce the tax they have to pay. Stella used to be 5.2% but is now 4.8%)
- Ale originally meant unhopped as opposed to beer that was hopped. Over time they eventually merged to have similar hopping rates. It is nothing to do with being top-fermented.
- Belgian beers do not typically use wild yeasts, though they are famous for it.

Having 5 units is not binge drinking! Even the NHS don't define it as that. I think they say more than 6 units for women and 8 for men is binge drinking. Don't get me started on the government attitudes to alcohol. Over the last 10 years, consumption has actually dropped considerably yet you'd think that half the country was walking around pissed from reading reports. The government guidelines are not based on medical evidence. There is no proof that drinking say 30 units a week will damage your health (there is proof that drinking 100 units a week will though). I'm not saying that everyone should go out and drink more, and clearly there are problems caused by excessive consumption, but don't necessarily believe the propaganda the government tells you either.

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :

Had a few beers down the local Irish-owned pub yesterday - new American varieties. My favourite was Rotater, an IPA. I also had one from Boulder Beer, a company I helped take public when I was a stockbroker back in the late 80s. The brew was named Sweaty Betty, a hefeweizen.

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