Thread: When I'm Archbishop of Canterbury... Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=026179

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
...The Gloria will be replaced by "My God" from Jethro Tull's Aqualung on the First Sunday of Each Month. By Order.

(If this counts as a game please transfer to the Circus, heavenly hosts)
 
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
... I will introduce a new clause to the Creed, so that it reads
quote:
I believe one holy catholic and apostolic Church; I believe in being nice to the vicar; I acknowledge one baptism ...

 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I could be the first* female, atheist ex-Presbyterian to hold the office.

*obviously I don't know when, exactly, in the succession my turn will come. But if they don't want the first female etc septuagenarian ABC they'd better get a move on.

And I'm definitely doing away with The Hat in favour of something a bit lighter (though not a fascinator, that would be silly).
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
I'd have a root and branch reform of admin, starting with the number of suffragans/assistant bishops.

I'd also make sure that ALL cathedral chapter clergy, with the exception of the Dean and Precentor, have links to a town or nearby parish.

... and pigs might fly [Snigger]
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Oh yes, definitely, L'O, except that I'd allow combination of suffragan bishoprics with residentiary canonries. Then enforcement of the oath only to use authorised forms of service (and a tidying up of those), replacement / consolidation of CW by/into a single volume that the laity can have at home, request to the PM to resume the right (given up by Brown) to choose between two nominations from the Crown Appointments Commission (again, in the interest of reducing clerical power in the Church), and finally a big bonfire of anything published by K-v-n M-yh-w. Then I'd start thinking about how to use my degree granting powers to undermine the marketisation of higher education. I tell you, I'd have a rare old time of it!
 
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
At least I already have The Beard™.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Why so serious?

When I am Archbishop of Canterbury:

- Archdeacons will be referred to as Archdragons so that everyone knows what to expect.

- All clergy will wear liturgically correct socks. The colour for Gaudete and Laetare Sunday will be Day-Glo pink rather than rose, as it will be easier to spot underneath the cassocks...

- Churches serving substandard after-service refreshments will receive a Visitation from the newly appointed Guild of Servants of the Coffee-Pot and instruction in the correct rituals.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I will allow each parish to add an additional clause to The Commination Against All Sinners. The right to do this shall be a prize in the Summer Fete (should raise a few thousand across the Province).
 
Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I will re-form parishes into Revolutionary Cadres fighting for Social Justice, Alleviation of Suffering, Feeding the Hungry, Clothing the Naked and Visiting those in Prison.

I may also create an English Inquisition that will include the Dreaded Torture by Tea and Fruit Cake!
 
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
Wodders wins! The most unfortunate thing is that's what churches should be.

I am excluded from the ABC as I am a Cattlick. I do, however, have some delusions of grandeur.
 
Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
To rehash the old joke, I will demand a recount.

(PeteC: I may be a married Episcopalian, but that hasn't stopped me from saying that my first act as Pope will be to move the whole show back to Avignon. Dream big!)
 
Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :
 
I'd like to succeed WW and reverse his policies. I am reminded of a great line from At the drop of another hat, where Michael Flanders says 'the purpose of satire, it has been rightly said, is to strip away the thin veneer of comforting illusion and cosy half truth. And our job, as I see it, is to put it back again.'

That's more the spirit of the church of England than revolutionary fervour.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
To rehash the old joke, I will demand a recount.

(PeteC: I may be a married Episcopalian, but that hasn't stopped me from saying that my first act as Pope will be to move the whole show back to Avignon. Dream big!)

Am I the only one to read that as "I demand a recant"? Or just another who wanted to read it that way.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
When I'm the ABC I'd make it law for ice skates to be put in the coffins of all lawyers.

They could put them to use, because by the time I'm ABC Hell will have frozen over.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:


I am excluded from the ABC as I am a Cattlick. I do, however, have some delusions of grandeur.

I don't want to be ABC: I want to be Pope - wouldn't be the first non-priest to take the office. I think there are some Shipmates who would actually be qualified to be ABC - you know who you are!
 
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
When I'm the Archbishop of Canterbury I will move the throne to Canterbury in New Zealnad - that will give the church a shake up [Razz]

I will appoint Wodders my side-kick at a vastly inflated stipend so he can be the ideas person on social justice issues.

Pete can be our advisor on relations with Rome.

Huia
 
Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on :
 
New Zealnad ? Clearly when you are ABC the (UK) 'Daily Telegraph' will be your official paper! (During a certain South Atlantic conflict, said paper baffled friend and foe alike by referring to the 'Flakland Islands') [Big Grin]
 
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
When I'm the Archbishop of Canterbury I will move the throne to Canterbury in New Zealnad - that will give the church a shake up [Razz]

I will appoint Wodders my side-kick at a vastly inflated stipend so he can be the ideas person on social justice issues.

Pete can be our advisor on relations with Rome.

Huia

Oooh, I will rush out to get fitted for a dalmatic. Would gold and burgundy be ok? Or perhaps I should just borrow an outfit from Wodders? He has loads, all bought against the day.
 
Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Why so serious?

When I am Archbishop of Canterbury:

- Archdeacons will be referred to as Archdragons so that everyone knows what to expect.

- All clergy will wear liturgically correct socks. The colour for Gaudete and Laetare Sunday will be Day-Glo pink rather than rose, as it will be easier to spot underneath the cassocks...

- Churches serving substandard after-service refreshments will receive a Visitation from the newly appointed Guild of Servants of the Coffee-Pot and instruction in the correct rituals.

While supporting this entirely, I will forbid clergy from using internal combustion engines on their duties. Bicycles and ponies for all.

More practically, I would divide all CoE dioceses so that none would contain more than 35-40 parishes, select bishops by lot in the manner practised among the Copts, and tie all clerical compensation to their saying of mattins and vespers daily.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
New Zealnad ? Clearly when you are ABC the (UK) 'Daily Telegraph' will be your official paper! (During a certain South Atlantic conflict, said paper baffled friend and foe alike by referring to the 'Flakland Islands') [Big Grin]

See how society is swinging to the left? The Telegraph takes up the mantle once held by the Guardian.
 
Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
... then I'd create an honoured position of Provider of King's Musick - every person in the land would be auditioned and anyone with a suitable voice would be allocated a church, abbey, priory or cathedral in which they would be valued, to fill the land with song. For this, they will be granted freedom from paying taxes for the duration of their singing career. Render unto God what is God's.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Augustine:
quote:
I will forbid clergy from using internal combustion engines on their duties. Bicycles and ponies for all.
...and the Church of England suddenly becomes wildly popular with small girls who like ponies and cycling enthusiasts of all ages.

It therefore follows that jodhpurs or cycling shorts must be worn at Sunday services unless you are a card-carrying member of the WI or Mother's Union...
 
Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Augustine:
quote:
I will forbid clergy from using internal combustion engines on their duties. Bicycles and ponies for all.
...and the Church of England suddenly becomes wildly popular with small girls who like ponies and cycling enthusiasts of all ages.

It therefore follows that jodhpurs or cycling shorts must be worn at Sunday services unless you are a card-carrying member of the WI or Mother's Union...

You are correct in that this initiative would fill the pews and fulfill the late Lord Coggan's evangelism initiative when all else has failed. I would also note that ponyphiles are not restricted to the most young of females-- a thirtyish former colleague once decided to keep her manager alert by inserting in the Funding Strategies heading of a cabinet document "Emily gets a pony." It made it up three levels before it was caught.
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
[Killing me] I like your colleague's style.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
... I'll try not to come out with risible sound-bites like putting Wonga "out of business" even before any church, either at national or local level, has founded a Credit Union.

He needs to be aware that recently several hundred credit unions have gone under due to bad debts...

Consulting Dave Fishwick of Burnley Savings & Loan ("Bank of Dave") should be his first port of call.

And how many PCCs or Churchwardens can you see being prepared to jump through the hoops to run a credit union???
 
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I will re-form parishes into Revolutionary Cadres fighting for Social Justice, Alleviation of Suffering, Feeding the Hungry, Clothing the Naked and Visiting those in Prison.

I may also create an English Inquisition that will include the Dreaded Torture by Tea and Fruit Cake!

The Salvation Army? On both counts?

[ 25. July 2013, 13:24: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
<snip>
He needs to be aware that recently several hundred credit unions have gone under due to bad debts...<snip>

And how many PCCs or Churchwardens can you see being prepared to jump through the hoops to run a credit union???

Between 2002 and 2010 37 credit unions failed, and the current rate is about six a year (although that many have already failed this year). So I hope that the Archbishop of Canterbury isn't 'aware' that "recently several hundred credit unions have gone under due to bad debts".

There are currently around 400 credit unions operating in England, there are some which are church-originated, and many more which are supported by volunteers from churches or the use of church facilities.

Personally I would have thought a parish was too small a unit to form a good basis for a credit union, and in any event it would better be done as a shared activity with other partners.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
[Paranoid]

jj nudges the bunnies back towards Heaven

If I were the ABC, I'd very likely embarrass myself the very first day! My socks would definitely be the wrong color.
 
Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :
 
To make the church relevant to the Twitter generation, sermons would be limited to 140 characters.
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger:
To make the church relevant to the Twitter generation, sermons would be limited to 140 characters.

I am interested in your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
 
Posted by Anglo Catholic Relict (# 17213) on :
 
I would make pastoral care of their parishioners compulsory for all priests.

[Smile]
 
Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Parishioners - all ten thousand of them?

Or do you mean churchgoers?
 
Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
When I am Archbisho.................... ha ................haha ............... ahahahahahhhhahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaa

OMG please make it stop.

Pyx_e.

p.s. "open churches" is the right answer to the question.
 
Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I will re-form parishes into Revolutionary Cadres fighting for Social Justice, Alleviation of Suffering, Feeding the Hungry, Clothing the Naked and Visiting those in Prison.

I may also create an English Inquisition that will include the Dreaded Torture by Tea and Fruit Cake!

The Salvation Army? On both counts?
Is the homophobia (cf the SA in the US refusing shelter to gay homeless teenagers) compulsory too?
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
Good old Pyx_e, pointing out the value of the subjunctive in thread titles...
 
Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
I have a phobia of ' s
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I will re-form parishes into Revolutionary Cadres fighting for Social Justice, Alleviation of Suffering, Feeding the Hungry, Clothing the Naked and Visiting those in Prison.

I may also create an English Inquisition that will include the Dreaded Torture by Tea and Fruit Cake!

The Salvation Army? On both counts?
Is the homophobia (cf the SA in the US refusing shelter to gay homeless teenagers) compulsory too?
Jade, if you wish to have a discussion on the SA and homosexuality, down that lane there is a paddock....


Firenze
Heaven Host

 
Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo Catholic Relict:
I would make pastoral care of their parishioners compulsory for all priests. [Smile]

Some priests have no talent for pastoral care. If they attempt it they may do more harm than good.

Moo
 
Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Making a strenuous effort to reintroduce fluffiness...

- Each parish will appoint an Official Sermon Timekeeper with the job of enforcing the PCC-approved time limit. Any preachers exceeding said limit will be decanted into the crypt when the OST presses the Big Red Button that activates the trapdoor in the floor of the pulpit.

Churches without crypts may use the Hellfire Extinguisher (patent pending), which is lowered from the roof to enclose the pulpit in a soundproof barrier.

As this is the Church of England, the Archbishop will not enforce a strict limit on sermon length, leaving the details of implementing this directive up to individual PCCs. However, it is anticipated that most parishes will opt for sermons of between 10 and 20 minutes unless the Archbishop of Canterbury is visiting, when the Official Sermon Timekeeper will have a Sunday off and I will go on talking for as long as I like, because otherwise what's the point of being Archbishop?

[ 30. July 2013, 21:43: Message edited by: Jane R ]
 
Posted by roybart (# 17357) on :
 
Ban mitres, surely the least flattering and silliest of the many silly hats worn by higher-level clergy.

The more valuable should be consigned to Sotheby's, with proceeds going to the neediest of good causes.
 
Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
<snip>
He needs to be aware that recently several hundred credit unions have gone under due to bad debts...<snip>

And how many PCCs or Churchwardens can you see being prepared to jump through the hoops to run a credit union???

Between 2002 and 2010 37 credit unions failed, and the current rate is about six a year (although that many have already failed this year). So I hope that the Archbishop of Canterbury isn't 'aware' that "recently several hundred credit unions have gone under due to bad debts".

There are currently around 400 credit unions operating in England, there are some which are church-originated, and many more which are supported by volunteers from churches or the use of church facilities.

Personally I would have thought a parish was too small a unit to form a good basis for a credit union, and in any event it would better be done as a shared activity with other partners.

For historical reasons (a polite way of saying that Anglican and Presbyterian bankers had no intention of loaning one red shekel to French Canadians), most credit unions in Canada were founded parish by parish. This extraordinary
phenomenon has now almost 375 branches, with 5.8 million members and C$175 billion in assets. I fear that what I like most are the older branches with the parish names, so I have an Ismaili friend in Montréal whose cheques are written over the Caisse de l'Enfant Jésus.
 
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I will re-form parishes into Revolutionary Cadres fighting for Social Justice, Alleviation of Suffering, Feeding the Hungry, Clothing the Naked and Visiting those in Prison.

I may also create an English Inquisition that will include the Dreaded Torture by Tea and Fruit Cake!

The Salvation Army? On both counts?
Is the homophobia (cf the SA in the US refusing shelter to gay homeless teenagers) compulsory too?
I'd be interested to see an objective report on that alleged event because it's not our policy to discriminate when it comes to providing a service to those in need.

[ 31. July 2013, 15:23: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
 
Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I will re-form parishes into Revolutionary Cadres fighting for Social Justice, Alleviation of Suffering, Feeding the Hungry, Clothing the Naked and Visiting those in Prison.

I may also create an English Inquisition that will include the Dreaded Torture by Tea and Fruit Cake!

The Salvation Army? On both counts?
Is the homophobia (cf the SA in the US refusing shelter to gay homeless teenagers) compulsory too?
Jade, if you wish to have a discussion on the SA and homosexuality, down that lane there is a paddock....


Firenze
Heaven Host

Sorry Firenze, I replied before I saw your instruction to Jade. Maybe Jade could send me a private message with a link to the story. Thanks

[ 31. July 2013, 15:25: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
 
Posted by rugasaw (# 7315) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
[Paranoid]

jj nudges the bunnies back towards Heaven

If I were the ABC, I'd very likely embarrass myself the very first day! My socks would definitely be the wrong color.

Thinking about this has caused me to wander how often the ABC, no any bishop, no any priest has had unknowingly had this exact same thing occur to them. I give you the answer, Bishop Socks. Suitable for any season and occasion within said season. Wedding during Lent, no problem with Bishop Socks you will be covered. Funeral during Epiphany, no problem Bishop Socks will keep you covered. Forgot if the church is using blue or purple for Advent, no need to worry with Bishop Socks.
 
Posted by PataLeBon (# 5452) on :
 
Rug, NO, just NO!

Seriously, I thought I had taught you better than that!

I'm not going to let you go shopping for your own clothes soon.... [Biased]
 
Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on :
 
Having met you both recently... [Killing me]
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
If I were ABC, I would make it compulsory for all clergy - bishops or otherwise - to revert to the indisputable practice of the earliest days of the church when sandals were the most any of the Apostles wore on their feet. No need for such fripperies as socks.

[ 31. July 2013, 23:28: Message edited by: Gee D ]
 
Posted by roybart (# 17357) on :
 
Gee D, I don't know about the Middle East, but the Romans definitely wore socks in winter, as did the Greeks.
 
Posted by roybart (# 17357) on :
 
Gee D, I don't know about the Jews, but the Romans definitely wore socks in winter, as did the Greeks.
 
Posted by roybart (# 17357) on :
 
.
 
Posted by The Phantom Flan Flinger (# 8891) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
If I were ABC, I would make it compulsory for all clergy - bishops or otherwise - to revert to the indisputable practice of the earliest days of the church when sandals were the most any of the Apostles wore on their feet. No need for such fripperies as socks.

Surely sock with sandals are compulsory for the English?
 
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by roybart:
Gee D, I don't know about the Middle East, but the Romans definitely wore socks in winter, as did the Greeks.

That's why I referred to the very earliest days of the church, when I had not spread much beyond Palestine.

I had not thought of the curious English habit of socks with sandals, and really would rather not think of it now. However, it seems to be stuck in my head....
 
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :
 
'see, this is why I don't wear sandals.

With socks, they look silly and someone might assume I'm a vicar on holiday.

Without them, they hurt your feet.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rugasaw:
I give you the answer, Bishop Socks.

Ooooh! Nice! [Yipee]

Pata, can your hubby go clothes shopping with me? [Smile]

[ETA shame on me for continuing the tangent. [Big Grin] ]

[ 01. August 2013, 11:50: Message edited by: jedijudy ]
 
Posted by Anglo Catholic Relict (# 17213) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Parishioners - all ten thousand of them?

Or do you mean churchgoers?

Yes, all ten thousand.

I see no reason why Vicars should be absolved from a duty of care towards those who choose to stay in bed on a Sunday morning. [Smile]
 
Posted by Anglo Catholic Relict (# 17213) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo Catholic Relict:
I would make pastoral care of their parishioners compulsory for all priests. [Smile]

Some priests have no talent for pastoral care. If they attempt it they may do more harm than good.

Moo

That would be funny if it were not true.

[Frown]
 
Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
<tangent> I have made myself insoles for my walking sandals which make them about 30% more comfortable and 50% less smelly. They are made of cut out foot shapes from a pair of fairly traded trousers which were full of holes. /<tangent>

When I'm Archbishop of Canterbury, I will move Canterbury to Scotland. Actually, why doesn't the ABC move the centre around to represent lots of areas? It could be a bit like hosting the Olympics. Sort of.

Cattyish, sewing machine addict.
 
Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Cattyish, there is a place called Canterbury near Cornhill in Banffshire. It's just two farms now I think, but it must have had a population of over 30 back in the day. Relatives of mine lived there a century ago, and we used to pass the sign to it when visiting an aunt. I will not confess how old I was before the penny dropped that the Archbishop didn't live there, and that there was in fact another, larger, Canterbury in Kent.
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:


Without them, they hurt your feet.

When I was about 15 I walked from Pasadena to Hollywood in sandals with tire-tread soles. I did not wear socks. It took me about three hours. I hitchhiked back.
 
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
Compulsory bells for an hour on Sunday morning, plus free ale on production of a Bellringers' Union card (to be honoured at each and every pub in the land).
 
Posted by Isaac David (# 4671) on :
 
...Josephine will be the Orthodox Pope, the Vatican will have relocated to Arkansas and gluten-free time travel will be available from Waitrose.
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo Catholic Relict:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Parishioners - all ten thousand of them?

Or do you mean churchgoers?

Yes, all ten thousand.

I see no reason why Vicars should be absolved from a duty of care towards those who choose to stay in bed on a Sunday morning. [Smile]

Indeed is it too much to ask that each has 45 minutes of her or his time every once in a while. If she/he works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week for 48 weeks in the year (and does nothing but visit parishioners), then each person will get time with the vicar a little bit less than once every two and a half years. I don't see what's wrong with that [Two face]
 
Posted by Anglo Catholic Relict (# 17213) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo Catholic Relict:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Parishioners - all ten thousand of them?

Or do you mean churchgoers?

Yes, all ten thousand.

I see no reason why Vicars should be absolved from a duty of care towards those who choose to stay in bed on a Sunday morning. [Smile]

Indeed is it too much to ask that each has 45 minutes of her or his time every once in a while. If she/he works 10 hours a day, 6 days a week for 48 weeks in the year (and does nothing but visit parishioners), then each person will get time with the vicar a little bit less than once every two and a half years. I don't see what's wrong with that [Two face]
Look again. I specified pastoral care.

I did not specify 45 minutes each; you made that bit up.

A priest who doesn't give a damn about anyone but him/herself is not worth having. Therefore, when I am ABC, I will make said giving a damn mandatory.

[ 02. August 2013, 14:31: Message edited by: Anglo Catholic Relict ]
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
Yes. You are right. I did make up the 45 minutes. I'm sorry about that. It was a knee-jerk reaction equating pastoral care with visiting. [Hot and Hormonal]

If I was ABC I would require all clergy to take a three month sabbatical (except for occasional offices) all at the same time [Big Grin]
 
Posted by Anglo Catholic Relict (# 17213) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Yes. You are right. I did make up the 45 minutes. I'm sorry about that. It was a knee-jerk reaction equating pastoral care with visiting. [Hot and Hormonal]

No problem. Easily done. [Smile]

I was thrown out of my church because the Vicar objected to giving a damn about me. Highly unpleasant.

quote:


If I was ABC I would require all clergy to take a three month sabbatical (except for occasional offices) all at the same time [Big Grin]

Where would you expect them all to go?

Butlins, perhaps?

[ 02. August 2013, 15:07: Message edited by: Anglo Catholic Relict ]
 
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Yes. You are right. I did make up the 45 minutes. I'm sorry about that.

Tony Blair - is that you?
 
Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
When I am ABC I shall decree that at random point during the processional hymn, the organist shall stop playing at which point the clergy, servers and choir will have to run to find a seat. The last person to get a seat is "out". This shall be repeated at the Gradual, Offertory and Recessional hymns.
 
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Anglo Catholic Relict:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Parishioners - all ten thousand of them?

Or do you mean churchgoers?

Yes, all ten thousand.

I see no reason why Vicars should be absolved from a duty of care towards those who choose to stay in bed on a Sunday morning. [Smile]

There's only so many times you can hear the words, "Get the **** off my doorstep, you ****ing ****, or I'll set the ****ing dog on you," before it begins to exert a certain amount of wear and tear on the soul.
 
Posted by Anglo Catholic Relict (# 17213) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
There's only so many times you can hear the words, "Get the **** off my doorstep, you ****ing ****, or I'll set the ****ing dog on you," before it begins to exert a certain amount of wear and tear on the soul.

I see you have met Father. [Smile]
 
Posted by womanspeak (# 15394) on :
 
When I'm ABC I'd order annual 360 evaluations of clergy by their parishes to be discussed confidentially with their Archdeacon.

An increase in self-knowledge and insight could only help clergy support their parishes in outreach and pastoral care provision.

I would not require them to complete hours of visits - but rather build teams of lay people and home groups to support each other in pastoral care. Similarly their role would be to enable the ministry of the laity in evangelism and outreach.

I too have been thrown out of my parish - mine for a passion for children, youth and family ministry. This challenged the vicar's focus on traditionalism and sacramentalism to the exclusion of the young and enquirers into the faith.
 
Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by womanspeak:
When I'm ABC I'd order annual 360 evaluations of clergy by their parishes to be discussed confidentially with their Archdeacon.

That already happens.
 
Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
Not everywhere it doesn't. The full 360º evaluation and meeting with the Archdeacon happens only once every three years in this diocese, with lighter touch 'reviews' in the intervening years.
 
Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
I stand corrected - I did wonder after posting.

However, Readers have do an annual appraisal.
 
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on :
 
I've been a priest for 25 years and never had an evaluation by anyone. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

On a lighter note, if I were ABC I'd have indoor fireworks at every Eucharist. Loads of the, especially during the Eucharistic Prayer.
 
Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I gather you've met Fr Paul, the guy who used to be the priest at the Syro-Malabar church we go to occasionally - fireworks mad! When we weren't there we could easily hear them from here, a couple of kms away.

I used to have annual appraisals and found them very helpful, then I got a new boss and they started to be a real drag - it very much depends on the appraiser.

Another thing I'd do as ABC is issue an instruction that all services must include a reasonable [minimum 5 mins] period of silent prayer and meditation.
 
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
If I were ABC, silent prayer and meditation would also include the right to sleep during sermons.

Oh, wait...
 
Posted by Touchstone (# 3560) on :
 
I would fix Easter as the second Sunday in April. No more celebrating Shrove Tuesday before the last mince pie has been eaten.
 
Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Touchstone:
I would fix Easter as the second Sunday in April. No more celebrating Shrove Tuesday before the last mince pie has been eaten.

And those of us who have to plan and carry out events for advent and lent would be forever in your debt. [Overused]
 
Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
When I am ABC I shall replace all Liturgical Interpretive Dance with this.
 
Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
When I am ABC I shall replace all Liturgical Interpretive Dance with this.

[Eek!] That really should be the new rickroll.
 
Posted by Gwalchmai (# 17802) on :
 
Expunge "And also with you" from every service in the Church of England and join our Catholic brethren in responding "And with your spirit".
 
Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
Expunge "And also with you" from every service ...

Absolutely.

quote:

... and join our Catholic brethren in responding "And with your spirit".

Nonononono ... "And with THY spirit". [Big Grin]
 
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
When I am ABC I shall replace all Liturgical Interpretive Dance with this.

It would make more sense.
 
Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
When I am ABC I shall replace all Liturgical Interpretive Dance with this.

It would make more sense.
Except now I need new glasses. Ouch.
 
Posted by pererin (# 16956) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
Expunge "And also with you" from every service in the Church of England and join our Catholic brethren in responding "And with your spirit".

Hear, hear. Also, restore the Lord God of Hosts to the Sanctus (or at the very least ensure a comma and a line break is set after the third "Holy" to at least try and avoid the dumty-dumty-dumty-dum dumty-dumty-dum infantile rhyme effect). And sort out the Gloria too, roughly along the lines the RCs have done, but realizing that "on high" is good idiomatic English, whereas "in the highest" suggests "to the greatest degree". And when we are done, we will sing the Te Deum, which will not begin "you are God".
 
Posted by Gwalchmai (# 17802) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by pererin:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
Expunge "And also with you" from every service in the Church of England and join our Catholic brethren in responding "And with your spirit".

Hear, hear. Also, restore the Lord God of Hosts to the Sanctus (or at the very least ensure a comma and a line break is set after the third "Holy" to at least try and avoid the dumty-dumty-dumty-dum dumty-dumty-dum infantile rhyme effect). And sort out the Gloria too, roughly along the lines the RCs have done, but realizing that "on high" is good idiomatic English, whereas "in the highest" suggests "to the greatest degree". And when we are done, we will sing the Te Deum, which will not begin "you are God".
As ABC I would also bring before an ecclesiastical court all those who drafted the modern langauge services in 1960s and 1970s for crimes against the English language.

As well as the examples quoted, I would ask them to explain just who they thought did not understand "visible and invisible" in the creed, even though these selfsame people would apparently have no problem with "begotten" a few lines later.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Touchstone:
I would fix Easter as the second Sunday in April. No more celebrating Shrove Tuesday before the last mince pie has been eaten.

The government has got there already. The Easter Act(1928) only needs to be enacted and your wish will be fulfilled.

In other news I would add "Cursed is he who spells hamster with a P" to the Commination Against Sinners.
 
Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by pererin:
And when we are done, we will sing the Te Deum, which will not begin "you are God".

It doesn't now. Not in CW anyway.
 
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by pererin:
And when we are done, we will sing the Te Deum, which will not begin "you are God".

It doesn't now. Not in CW anyway.
I certainly hope it is never translated You are God. That would be a sin against the Latin language.

Te, Deum, laudamus We praise you, O God.
 
Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by pererin:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
Expunge "And also with you" from every service in the Church of England and join our Catholic brethren in responding "And with your spirit".

Hear, hear. Also, restore the Lord God of Hosts to the Sanctus
Why? How many people know that it means 'armies'? Who thinks it's communion wafers?
 
Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
As ABC, I would dictate that it's really important for my successors to actually believe in God, as Sir Humphrey told us on television many years ago!
 
Posted by pererin (# 16956) on :
 
(I'm inclined to post this reply in Ecclesiantics, but seeing as it's continuing the conversation, I'll leave it to the armies of communion wafers [Biased] to make the call.)

quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
As ABC I would also bring before an ecclesiastical court all those who drafted the modern langauge services in 1960s and 1970s for crimes against the English language.

Nah, some of their stuff is good. Geoffrey Cuming's completely different Agnus Dei alternative is exactly that: an alternative. Likewise "The Lord is here.// His Spirit is with us". It's just that we should call out the less successful bits.

In a similar vein, we should not quite round up and burn at the stake those responsible for later periods of vandalism, such as the geniuses working on the Creed who were worried that "the Lord and Giver of Life" could be misread as making the Holy Spirit the Lord of Life, but were willing to decree that their silly taboo about the word "men" in the phrase "who for us men and for our salvation" must not be misread by anyone anywhere ever.

quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by pererin:
Hear, hear. Also, restore the Lord God of Hosts to the Sanctus

Why? How many people know that it means 'armies'?
Anyone who reads the Bible*. Indeed, anyone who attends a service where Psalm 24, 46, 48, 59, 69, 80, 84, 89, or 103 is sung or said. If it's good enough for the Common Worship Psalter, it's good enough for the rest of the book.

* So long as it's not the New International Version, that is. But to be fair that version's approach achieves consistency between παντοκρατωρ in all of the books of the Old Testament except one (where it's the Greek for צבאות) and in the New (where it's been traditionally, if a little misleadingly, rendered Almighty, in harmony with how it's always been translated in the Creeds). So there's a decent case for "Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty: heaven and earth are full of your glory".

In any event, "power and might" is a bit of a strange gloss that isn't found in any Bible translation. It also contributes to the unfortunate trochaic tri-/tetrameter reading. But a slightly eccentric translation of a single word is a less serious problem than breaking Sanctus / Dominus Deus Sabaoth into Sanctus Dominus / Deus Sabaoth. I could live with "power and might" so long as the punctuation and line breaks were right.

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by pererin:
And when we are done, we will sing the Te Deum, which will not begin "you are God".

It doesn't now. Not in CW anyway.
How strange. The ASB version must have been so widely derided that the editors gave in. I see they've even restored the vocative "O" in that one line, but fail to do it elsewhere. There are some particularly intriguing inconsistencies in the third section of the Te Deum, where the editors have simply cribbed the ASB version, rather than comparing the psalm allusions to the Psalter — compare from the Te Deum:

A) Save your people, Lord, and bless your inheritance.
Govern and uphold them now and always.

B) Day by day we bless you.
We praise your name for ever.

C) Lord, show us your love and mercy,
for we have put our trust in you.

D) In you, Lord, is our hope:
let us never be put to shame.

with:

A) Save your people and bless your inheritance;
shepherd them and carry them for ever. (Ps 28.11)

B) Every day will I bless you
and praise your name for ever and ever. (Ps 145.2)

C) Let your loving-kindness, O Lord, be upon us,
as we have set our hope on you. (Ps 33.22)

D) In you, O Lord, have I taken refuge;
let me never be put to shame; (Ps 31.1ab)

The CW Psalter is far from perfect, but these parallels only serve to highlight the literary flaws of the ASB-based canticles.

The other thing that's obvious is that חסד, a rather key word in the Psalms, is still being translated inconsistently. With my imaginary mitre back on, I would decree that it be consistently rendered "grace" in English, just as Martin Luther would have done. :-)
 
Posted by Touchstone (# 3560) on :
 
quote:

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Touchstone:
I would fix Easter as the second Sunday in April. No more celebrating Shrove Tuesday before the last mince pie has been eaten.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The government has got there already. The Easter Act(1928) only needs to be enacted and your wish will be fulfilled.


This seems to have been stuck in committee for a very long time indeed...
 
Posted by Gwalchmai (# 17802) on :
 
I would always prefer to use the psalms and canticles (and the Gloria and Creed) from the Book of Common Prayer. There is a beauty and rhythm in the language which is missing from the prosaic modern versions. Worship should not be conducted in the language of a civil service report or a letter from the Department of Work and Pensions!
 
Posted by pererin (# 16956) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Gwalchmai:
I would always prefer to use the psalms and canticles (and the Gloria and Creed) from the Book of Common Prayer. There is a beauty and rhythm in the language which is missing from the prosaic modern versions. Worship should not be conducted in the language of a civil service report or a letter from the Department of Work and Pensions!

Someone should really edit the public-domain WEB Psalms into slightly nicer English (taking the best readings from a range of modern versions) and then point them for Anglican Chant.
 


© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0