Ship of Fools: Does rhyming slang ever double up?

Thread: Does rhyming slang ever double up? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :

Does it ever happen that a word in Cockney rhyming slang becomes such a normal word for something that it goes through a second round of rhyming?

Like, would it be possible for trouble (trouble and strife) to become such a common word for wife that it loses its connection to the rhyming slang, and then another rhyme (soap bubble) would come into use, so that soap would mean wife?

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I don't know about rhyming slang, but consider French verlan (derived from l'envers) which involves inverting the syllables of words - and has given rise to reverse verlan:

quote:
Some verlan words, such as meuf [from femme], have become so commonplace that they have been included into the Petit Larousse and a doubly "verlanised" version was rendered necessary, so the singly verlanised meuf became feumeu; similarly, the verlan word beur, derived from arabe, has become accepted into popular culture such that it has been re-verlanised to yield rebeu

Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :

From the Wikipedia entry on this topic:

quote:

In some examples the meaning is further obscured by adding a second iteration of rhyme and truncation to the original rhymed phrase. For example, the word "Aris" is often used to indicate the buttocks. This is the result of a double rhyme, starting with the original rough synonym "arse", which is rhymed with "bottle and glass", leading to "bottle". "Bottle" was then rhymed with "Aristotle" and truncated to "Aris"

Is that what you meant?

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I live in an area where rhyme is used quite a lot, although maybe a bit self-consciously sometimes, but it's hard to think of genuine doubles. For example, people round here say 'let's go for a ruby' (= Murray = curry), but it's unlikely that somebody would then rhyme 'ruby'.

I was also thinking about polari (gay slang), which was very inventive, e.g. it used back slang, but again, I can't think of any doubles.

But London street slang moves faster than a speeding bullet. As soon as it's on TV, the kids move on to something else quite often. Thus, 'Top Boy' had some of it, e.g. blood, wagwan, feds, sket, but probably the kids in Hackney are also pissing themselves at its old-fashioned feel.

Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Jestocost:
From the Wikipedia entry on this topic:

quote:

In some examples the meaning is further obscured by adding a second iteration of rhyme and truncation to the original rhymed phrase. For example, the word "Aris" is often used to indicate the buttocks. This is the result of a double rhyme, starting with the original rough synonym "arse", which is rhymed with "bottle and glass", leading to "bottle". "Bottle" was then rhymed with "Aristotle" and truncated to "Aris"
Is that what you meant?

It's most likely to occur when the original rhyming slang has become a dead metaphor. So words like berk, raspberry, bread (as in money) or cobblers would all be candidates for nested rhyming slang, because they're now commonly understood as words in their own right, despite being derived from rhyming slang.

I've got a feeling that I have heard something like this, but I can't quite put my finger on it. It could be that I'm remembering Bill Oddie's fictional example from ISIRTA, which was about six layers deep.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

To be pernickety, Bread as in money derives from the US. Bread, as in loaf of bread = head, is the cockney usage.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Except that in English, you say 'use your loaf', not 'use your bread'.

It's normal to only use the first word in the rhyming phrase, although some whole phrases are used.

If you look up lists of rhyming phrases on the internet, I really doubt that many of them are used today, e.g. apples and pears, johnny horner.

But 'boracic' is still used, 'boracic lint' = skint; brahms and liszt (= pissed); bristols (bristol city = titty); butcher's (= hook = look); china (= plate = mate); cream crackered (= knackered); dog and bone (= phone), etc.

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Except that in English, you say 'use your loaf', not 'use your bread'.

It's normal to only use the first word in the rhyming phrase, although some whole phrases are used.

If you look up lists of rhyming phrases on the internet, I really doubt that many of them are used today, e.g. apples and pears, johnny horner.

But 'boracic' is still used, 'boracic lint' = skint; brahms and liszt (= pissed); bristols (bristol city = titty); butcher's (= hook = look); china (= plate = mate); cream crackered (= knackered); dog and bone (= phone), etc.

Well you learn something new every day. I always assumed that 'boracic' was brassic and had something to do with the brass balls a pawnbroker had outside his premises.

The ship is a wonderful place of education

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Kids I'm currently working with in Hackney think Top Boy is so good they're probably reimporting the language back ... (that one has some East End roots). I can't think of any dialect they're using that I haven't picked up already and if it's any different to the stuff I've heard for the last few years. "Bear" as an amplifier is still around.

Back to the rhyming slang - lots of invented stuff that didn't come from the area is used self-consciously, but I can't think of hearing much in use. That area, Whitechapel, Stepney, Bow is far more Asian than traditional cockney. Whitechapel market is pretty much pure Bangladeshi, and Roman Road market has a lot of Bangladeshi stalls.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Yes, the rhymes have become a sort of play thing, which some groups use more or less self-consciously. In fact, me and the war and strife sometimes rabbit and pork to each other, fancy going round the johnny horner to the rub-a-dub dub for a coupla Britneys, innit.

Now that one - Britney Spear for beer - is probably mockney I think, still who cares, it's fun. There are also some ruder ones about Ms Spears, which I shall not repeat here.

The commonest ones that I hear, and probably very old, is tea-leaf for thief, and half-inch for pinch, and of course porkies for lies.

I am talking Fulham here, a very strong London accent, and one thing I am noticing is that some young guys nowadays have extremely strong accents, more than the older guys, so I wonder if that is a kind of political or regional assertiveness, maybe. I hope somebody is doing a Ph. D. on this, as there are all kind of fusions going on, with Jamaican slang mixing in with old London stuff, plus gang stuff, etc.

Incidentally, I've heard of a triple - April in Paris, for aris, for Aristotle, for bottle, for bottle and glass, for arse. So you would say, 'I fell on me April'. Not sure I believe that one.

Well, that's enough of the chitty chitty for tonight.

Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :

Good grief. One might as well go to Starbucks and order off their menu.

Posted by Deputy Verger (# 15876) on :

quetzalcoatl said

quote:
If you look up lists of rhyming phrases on the internet, I really doubt that many of them are used today, e.g. apples and pears, johnny horner.

I still hear (in South East London) "up the apples" for "upstairs".

One of my faves is "One for the frog" (and toad, ie road). But that's not a double, so I'll shut up now.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Oh brilliant, I'm glad that apples is still used for stairs.

On Starbucks - oright, mate, daan the Lisa Tarbucks for some Everton toffee, here's the poppy!

(Poppy is a double from poppy red = bread = bread and honey = money).

Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :

Thanks, y'all! There's an etymology blog that I read regularly, and I've sometimes thought that rhyming slang would be an etymologist's worst nightmare -- especially if it could be doubled (or tripled even!).

And I'd never heard of verlan before. That's fun!

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

It used to be said that rhymes would naturally die out, as the old Londoners themselves died, the people who had said 'going up the apples now', and so on, quite naturally.

Well, obviously they have died, but it has seen a kind of renaissance, but in a more comic and self-conscious manner, akin to 'mockney'.

A lot of it is jokey - many people will remember 'J. Arthur' (+Rank), for 'wank', and so on.

Would you Adam and Eve it, the old chitty chitty has gone and come back!

Some new ones: leaky (tap) = app; banana (fritter) = Twitter; Will (I.am.) = scam.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Yes, verlan sounds interesting.

Back slang has occurred in various parts of the UK, and amongst various groups, e.g. polari (gay slang) had some back slang.

Also it was supposed to be part of thieves' slang, and was definitely used in the East End of London a bit, e.g. 'deelo nam' for old man. Used supposedly in shops, so that the assistants could insult the customers!

Also, kids have always used pig Latin, which is a kind of back slang, everybody must know 'uckfay off-fay' and so on. 'Amscray' is a famous one.

Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:

I am talking Fulham here, a very strong London accent, and one thing I am noticing is that some young guys nowadays have extremely strong accents, more than the older guys, so I wonder if that is a kind of political or regional assertiveness, maybe.

I wouldn't be surprised. Fulham is one of those areas where indigenous Londoners (if they still exist) are very much overwhelmed by the tide of wealthy invaders. In a similar way, the local accents of Merseyside and Tyneside have become noticeably more distinctive in recent years (according to academic research), resisting the homogenisation of the rest of the urban north to a sort of northern version of Estuary.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

There's a Polish shop nearby - Bona Deli.

I so want to go in and exclaim 'Lovely to vada your eek!'

(This only makes sense if your childhood was spent listening to Jules and Sandy)

But it also brings up the point that the primary transmission for linguistic subsets is mass media. Time was, you picked up one at home and (probably) had another walloped into you at school. Mr Polly has linguistic aspirations, but because he has only read the words and not heard them, his speech betrays him. So is it still the case that, as Shaw said, it is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other one despise him? Would Eliza need to bother learning RP, or would she be better bigging up her natural Lunnon, init?

[ 09. October 2013, 10:09: Message edited by: Firenze ]

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:

I am talking Fulham here, a very strong London accent, and one thing I am noticing is that some young guys nowadays have extremely strong accents, more than the older guys, so I wonder if that is a kind of political or regional assertiveness, maybe.
I wouldn't be surprised. Fulham is one of those areas where indigenous Londoners (if they still exist) are very much overwhelmed by the tide of wealthy invaders. In a similar way, the local accents of Merseyside and Tyneside have become noticeably more distinctive in recent years (according to academic research), resisting the homogenisation of the rest of the urban north to a sort of northern version of Estuary.

Yes, good points. I was digging my allotment recently, close to a bunch of building workers, and I couldn't believe some of their accents. If you did it on TV, you would be accused of camping it up, so maybe they are. Anti-Yuppy!

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
There's a Polish shop nearby - Bona Deli.

I so want to go in and exclaim 'Lovely to vada your eek!'

(This only makes sense if your childhood was spent listening to Jules and Sandy)

But it also brings up the point that the primary transmission for linguistic subsets is mass media. Time was, you picked up one at home and (probably) had another walloped into you at school. Mr Polly has linguistic aspirations, but because he has only read the words and not heard them, his speech betrays him. So is it still the case that, as Shaw said, it is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other one despise him? Would Eliza need to bother learning RP, or would she be better bigging up her natural Lunnon, init?

I suppose the real trick is to learn both, so you can switch on RP, and then go back down the Fulham Road, and go in the Lisa for a cuppa molten, innit. But then you sound like a phoney - never mind, call it postmodern.

Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Well, obviously they have died, but it has seen a kind of renaissance, but in a more comic and self-conscious manner, akin to 'mockney'.

I reckon I'm the child of a father (not a cockney) who used comic rhyming slang, and a lot of it is just embedded vocabulary to me, words in their own right, as TGG said.

I got a real shock upthread reading that half-inch is rhyming slang - in my head it's just another word for pinch, like steal or take. Weird.

[ 09. October 2013, 10:38: Message edited by: Earwig ]

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Yes, some of the old rhymes just got incorporated into English, well, idiomatic English. Classic examples: cobblers, half-inch, porkies, on me todd (sloan), khyber (?) (pass), barking, brassic, brown bread (?), scarper (Scapa flow), use your loaf, etc.

Some weird ones: Schindler's (list) for pissed; Nuremberg (trials) for piles; Vera Lynn for heroin. Well, maybe somebody did use them.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I thought it was Brahms for having too much drink taken, not Schindlers.

And I'm still stumped by chitty-chitty and molten...

I think you're taking the michael me son.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Chitty chitty is rhyming slang for rhyming slang - chitty chitty bang bang; molten = molten (toffee) = coffee.

I can't vouch for chitty chitty, but I am pretty sure that 'a cuppa molten' is boda fide. I've never heard 'everton', (everton toffee = coffee), but I think it was used traditionally.

But I don't think some of them are genuine really, except as a piss-take maybe, or just a joke.

By the way, 'barking' above is completely wrong - I reversed it - the slang for 'barking' is '3 stops down from Plaistow', (on the London Tube), not a rhyme in any case.

My wife just said that she remembers 'ecaf' for 'cafe', back slang.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

As I told my children, NEVER call someone a berk
[Berkshire hunt ... [Eek!]

]

Rhyming slang is always adapting and taking on words, people and expressions from popular culture, such as politicians, pop stars and characters in soap operas, so "Down the rub for a Nelson (Mandela)" translates as Going to the pub for a pint of Stella Artois.

I leave you to work out Need the Boss (Hogg) for an Eartha ... [Killing me]

Posted by Keren-Happuch (# 9818) on :

Penny, I'm assuming molten (lava) = java.

Take a butcher's is another one in common use, I think. And I hadn't realised that on me todd was rhyming slang either.

Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
To be pernickety, Bread as in money derives from the US. Bread, as in loaf of bread = head, is the cockney usage.

To be pernickety, no. It's bread and honey = money. The bread in "loaf of bread" should never be spoken, in case it made the meaning too obvious to anyone listening in. Hence use your loaf. This neatly illustrates my point about dead metaphors, and how the origins of rhyming slang eventually get forgotten.

If a Cockney simply refers to bread, you're discussing financial matters, not higher cognition.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
... Nuremberg (trials) for piles ...

I remember someone complaining he was suffering from "Dukes" (Duke of Argylls).

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
... Nuremberg (trials) for piles ...
I remember someone complaining he was suffering from "Dukes" (Duke of Argylls).

Cockneys must have sufered from these for years because "the Chalfonts" and the Farmers" are two more.

(I'm sure ecaf is polari, btw. Bona polari)

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

It could be polari, but back slang seems to pop up in different times and places. Historically, it is supposed to have been used by costermongers (vatch you a yennep?), butchers, (tuck the dillo woc a tib of dillo woc, cut the old cow a bit of old cow), but also thieves used it, and then polari, and of course, school-kids, although I don't count pig Latin as back slang.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Great Gumby:

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
To be pernickety, Bread as in money derives from the US. Bread, as in loaf of bread = head, is the cockney usage.
To be pernickety, no. It's bread and honey = money. The bread in "loaf of bread" should never be spoken, in case it made the meaning too obvious to anyone listening in. Hence use your loaf. This neatly illustrates my point about dead metaphors, and how the origins of rhyming slang eventually get forgotten.

If a Cockney simply refers to bread, you're discussing financial matters, not higher cognition.

Your point about it not being obvious is interesting, as it is often argued that quite a lot of slang originates from the need for secrecy and privacy. This could be to do with illegal stuff (thieves' slang, cf. today's drug dealers), or being able to slag people off without them knowing, (shop-keepers), or just a kind of clique, or restricted group, e.g. tradesmen.

I think there is also a kind of buzz from the unspoken bit, which is allusive, especially in the comic stuff, e.g. 'he's gone for a J. Arthur'. To put the 'Rank' in would spoil the sly humour.

Presumably, Cockneys masturbated a lot as there are a ton of rhymes for it: going for a Barclays, a Jodrell, an Armitage (Shank), a lamb (shank), a sherman (tank), and a Thomas (the Tank Engine), and in bad taste, an Anne Frank.

An amusing one is a Ravi (Shankar) for a wanker.

Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
There's a Polish shop nearby - Bona Deli.

This is a fascinating thread! I knew about Polari, but looked it up on Wiki and was surprised at how many of the words were what I think of normal, in common use. My mum's side of the family were dancers/ theatre types, and I'm sure I remember them using 'lally tappers' for feet.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Earwig:

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
There's a Polish shop nearby - Bona Deli.
This is a fascinating thread! I knew about Polari, but looked it up on Wiki and was surprised at how many of the words were what I think of normal, in common use. My mum's side of the family were dancers/ theatre types, and I'm sure I remember them using 'lally tappers' for feet.

I'm fascinated by Polari, partly because its use used to be so widespread and its origins were so diverse - did it come from the theatres, the fairgrounds, the dockyards? How did it acquire its specifically southern European elements? As for its use among gay men, I'd love to read a history of it as a phenomenon. (Sadly, good histories of gay culture are rare, and I've never found one that tells me all I want to know about Polari.)

On the subject of rhyming slang, there was an edition of QI in which Stephen Fry brilliantly rattled off a whole stream of it - most of which he'd made up for the occasion. If it's on youtube, I'll post a link later.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I notice that some of the studies of rhymes divide them into categories, e.g. traditional, modern and mockney, seems to be quite a common division.

This is OK, I suppose, but it almost suggests that some rhymes are more genuine or authentic than others, which I don't agree with.

If somebody is doing mockney, and making up daft rhymes, in order to lark about or take the piss, that is still using rhymes.

OK, the 80 year old costermonger down the Mile End Rd might still talk about going up the apples, but it's daft to rate that as somehow more kosher than Stephen Fry making up Polari rhymes on TV.

It's the linguistic inventiveness that's interesting, and goes on in slang generally. The fact that people are still using rhymes and backslang and other stuff, is very Robin Hood.

Hell, if I was 40 years younger, I would be out on the street, recording this stuff, it's the dog's bollocks.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

You'll be lucky to find a costermonger on the Mile End Road and if you do find one the chances of them speaking English aren't that great.

And the reason I named the East End areas is that cockneys were traditionally born within earshot of Bow Bells. (Like my mother)

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Just a note on back slang (hell, the mods will have to lock this thread, to shut me up now), there are many types.

The pure classical type, as you might say, inverts words, hence 'klim' for milk.

The one commonly used by kids is a kind of pig Latin, which takes the first consonant of the word to the back, followed by 'ay' or some other suffix, hence, 'oday uyay iklay to iskay?', do you like to kiss?

There are others which stick something in the middle of the word, hence 'doargy you likargy to iskargy?'.

Butcher's slang put some vowels in to make the new word easier, hence, 'elrig' for girl. The secretive nature of it is shown in something like, 'cool at the gib tee-serbs on that el-rig', look at the big breasts on that girl.

There are some nice doubles also, e.g. butcher's slang for four was 'rofe', which became 'French loaf', shortened to French.

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
(I'm sure ecaf is polari, btw. Bona polari)

Is the polari word not "eek", from ecaf, as in "Julian! how bona to vada your dolly old eek!"?

Who said Round the Horne wasn't educational...

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Actually, ecaf should be face, not cafe, in Polari.

I think cafe would be riff raff in rhyming, (or even Colonel Gadaffi), not sure about back slang. In Swedish, 'fika' is a break, back slang from 'kaffi' (I think).

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Some French back slang:

un keum (man), back from 'mec'; une meuf (woman), from 'femme'; un keuf (police), from 'flic'; looc (cool), back from English cool; beur, from arabe; reub, back from beur; feuk, back from keuf (two double back slangs here); cefran, back from francais; feca, back from cafe.

Posted by Bob Two-Owls (# 9680) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Actually, ecaf should be face, not cafe, in Polari.

Yes that is the sense in which I quoted it, "how bona to vada your dolly old eek" translates as "how lovely to see your dear old face" - I missed the original post linking it to cafe. What with backslang, polari and rhyming this is getting hard to follow!

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Yes, my fault, as I quoted 'ecaf' as meaning cafe, but I think that's wrong, it's the old Polari word for face. Any fool know cafe is Colonel Gadaffi!

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I kept thinking, what the hell is cappuccino, and of course, it's Al Pacino.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Backslang and thieves' cant have been around for some centuries. The Gull's Hornbook, by Thomas Dekker, written in the 1600s, goes into interesting detail about a fairly well-established language quite likely much older. (The Gull is the street-smart man about town of those days.) Most subcultures have at least a few words of their own. The more developed the vocabulary the more likely it is that the group doesn't want outsiders to understand what's being said. Costermongers' argot was pretty much a private language with, when they got going, virtually none of the nouns or verbs being recognizable to outsiders.

One of the first studies of linguistic subcultures was done by George Borrow in the Victorian era, who wrote Lavengro, a fascinating study of his time spent with the gypsies, and you'll find some of the Romany words he cites - "pal", "chav" and "kushti" being three of the better-known ones - that have also slipped into modern colloquial speech.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

This is a nice piss-take of Cockney - warning, absolutely tons of swearing.

Note some of the rhymes, are you 'aving a bubble bath? (laugh); see this moody boat (race = face).

'Oo the fack eats 'addock?'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0kwWeuTq5E

The first guy who goes in the shop - I had a client exactly like that. You fink I'm a mug? You 'aving a turkish?

[ 09. October 2013, 18:01: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
But it also brings up the point that the primary transmission for linguistic subsets is mass media.

Indeed. When I was an undergraduate in Liverpool 20+ years ago, it was quite common to hear students using rhyming slang they had picked up from Minder.

Posted by Edith (# 16978) on :

My husband - SE London born and bred, uses it all the time and was astonished when I failed to understand him when we first met. All the terms above are familar to me, but I was foxed by Foc. I thought it might be rather rude, but then I discovered that it was Father of the Chapel.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Very exciting for all completists - apparently there is a record of 'April in Paris' for arse, in 'Fools and Horses'.

So a triple seems to be officially recorded. What joy! Time for a Turkish.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

Mr Fry is very funny.
(And uses "three stops down from Plaistow," which I'd never come across till I read it upthread.)

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
... Nuremberg (trials) for piles ...
I remember someone complaining he was suffering from "Dukes" (Duke of Argylls).
Cockneys must have sufered from these for years because "the Chalfonts" and the Farmers" are two more.

(I'm sure ecaf is polari, btw. Bona polari)

And I've heard Bernards (Bernard Miles) and Sigmunds (Sigmund Freuds= haemmorhoids, or however you spell it) although how genuine that latter one is I don't know.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Mr Fry is very funny.
(And uses "three stops down from Plaistow," which I'd never come across till I read it upthread.) [/QUOTE}
Nor had I, though I was familiar with, and sometimes use, 'Upminster' ( = eight, or whatever it is, stops beyond Barking).

Posted by comet (# 10353) on :

this conversation is fascinating. (though I think I'm getting a headache)

are there any good resources for someone on the WAY outside of this whole thing to learn more? I'm particularly interested in the origins of polari.

anyone know of some good historical and linguistic books on the subject?

time to go take something for my aching loaf.

(did I do that right? [Big Grin]

)

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

Paul Baker is a linguistics guy who has published a couple of books on Polari, I haven't read them, but they sound reasonably professional. Here is his web-site:

http://www.ling.lancs.ac.uk/staff/paulb/polari/home.htm

He also has a book out called 'Fantabulosa', which is definitely in print.

There are an awful lot of naff books on rhyming slang, with titles like 'You can be a Cockney geezer!', which are oriented to tourists, I suppose. Most of them are probably just lists of words. I'm surprised, as when I taught linguistics, Cockney was regularly taught in Phonetics, but I will keep looking.

'Aching loaf' doesn't sound right, as it's really used in the fixed phrase, 'use your loaf', also 'use your crust'. Street slang would usually have 'you're doin' my 'ed in, mate!'

This is a decent list of rhymes:

http://www.aldertons.com/english-.htm

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I heard of another new one: Barack Obamas for pyjamas.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, the rhymes have become a sort of play thing, which some groups use more or less self-consciously. In fact, me and the war and strife

Isn't that trouble and strife?

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Yes, the rhymes have become a sort of play thing, which some groups use more or less self-consciously. In fact, me and the war and strife
Isn't that trouble and strife?

Are you having a bubble bath, mate? Well, the old bread knife, she's a bit radio rental, know what I mean, so we say one day she's trouble, and another it's war, so all in all, it's a bit von Trapp, eh?

Posted by bib (# 13074) on :

Different countries have varying forms of rhyming slang. Two Australian ones that come to mind are 'dead horse' for tomato sauce and 'billy lids' for kids. I find the development of language fascinating and confusing at the same time. I've found on visiting England that in some counties I really struggle to understand the local accent and language. In Australia there are less variations between states, but as a trained linguist I can identify some subtle and some less subtle differences.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

I found you have to watch some words. For example bubble: I'm used to "You're having a bubble!", but been thrown by "It made me bubble." and also encountered "When you're feeling bubbly ..."

1. Bubble bath = laugh
2. made me bubble up = cry
3. bubbly = beginning to lose your temper/control

1 and 3 are London usage, 2 was in the north east, along with the first time I heard minging - but that got common usage shortly afterwards.

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