Thread: What's in a pub name? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Pub names are often intriguing. There's any amount of coloured lions and horses, and pubs named after royals, and some pub names suggest there's a story behind them. "The Rats' Castle" is one, "The Blinking Owl" another.

Some are also just plain daft or contrived. "Jude the Obscure" and "The Philosopher and Firkin" come to mind. Any other real-life daft pub names you've seen? Did the pub live up to it?

Anecdotes of eccentric pubs generally, most welcome.

[ 13. October 2013, 08:55: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
The Firkin ones are all based on a small pub brewery model. I got a group of us banned for wearing a Fox and Firkin sweatshirt, that one was in Lewisham. I have also come across the Ferret and Firkin, Forest and Firkin (that one has reverted to the George and Dragon) and a few others.

There are a couple I see on my wanders (peripatetic role) - The Widow's Son immediately comes to mind and makes me wonder about the story behind it (that's by Devons Road DLR). Other stories I wonder about are The Blind Beggar in Whitechapel and the The Little Driver in Bow.

The Goat and Compass (used to be one in South Norwood) was supposed to be a corruption of God encompasses and The Cat and Fiddle from adeste fideles which suggests they were old pilgrim inns, church run.
 
Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
The Bleeding Wolf in Hale, near Altrincham is supposedly on the site of where the last wolf in Cheshire was killed.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Anyone play Pub Cricket? You score runs equal to the number of legs on the pub sign (so The Goat and Compasses would be 6, Red Lion 4, King's Head 2) and lose a wicket if there are no legs (The Plough, The Old Ship etc).

I've tried to think of a motorway version, using lorries, but haven't really come up with anything yet.

Firenze, bored passenger.
 
Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Locally we have the Parrot and Frog, which is a real ale pub.

Locally there is "The Bath" that is the pub by what was public baths. Not just swimming baths but places people who did not have bathrooms could go for a bath. There were also Turkish baths available. It looks as if being clean in Sheffield a century ago was a social occasion.

Jengie
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
We used to play pub cricket when I was a child - equally bored in cars. The Fox and Hounds was a particularly good one to get
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Anyone play Pub Cricket? You score runs equal to the number of legs on the pub sign (so The Goat and Compasses would be 6, Red Lion 4, King's Head 2) and lose a wicket if there are no legs (The Plough, The Old Ship etc).
If the King's Head is 2 what would The Three Goats' Heads be? I'm guessing this would score 0 as it's only heads on the pub sign - or does it count as 12?

There's a pub opening locally in the near future, to be called The Plum Pudding, which is actually the nickname of the Oxfordshire Sandy Black Pig rather than a reference to the pudding itself. Its menu, I'm told, will feature a lot of pork-based dishes.

This reminds me of a business trip I once made where we got taken out for a pub lunch. The car park had a pig sty next to it with an enormous sow and little piglets, and chickens were roaming around loose in the car park (so we had to park carefully). The first thing we saw on entering the pub was a huge statuette of a chicken and after that it was no real surprise that the menu featured quite a lot of pork and chicken. I'm hoping there'll be a pig sty next to the Plum Pudding when it gets going, but suspect not.
 
Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Anyone play Pub Cricket? You score runs equal to the number of legs on the pub sign (so The Goat and Compasses would be 6, Red Lion 4, King's Head 2) and lose a wicket if there are no legs (The Plough, The Old Ship etc).
If the King's Head is 2 what would The Three Goats' Heads be? I'm guessing this would score 0 as it's only heads on the pub sign - or does it count as 12?

It's the being referred to, even if only a part of its anatomy is specified.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
We played different rules: The King's Head was 0 because there were no legs. But that might have been to keep the game mythog around the 3 of us.
 
Posted by blackbeard (# 10848) on :
 
Not especially historical, but we have a local pub called The King's Head.
The portrait on the sign is of King Charles I.
 
Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
The Firkin ones are all based on a small pub brewery model.

Well, it was originally until David Bruce sold out to one of the big companies and then they became just another big pub chain. The brewery disappeared a long time ago and I don't think the pub chain exists any more either

quote:
I got a group of us banned for wearing a Fox and Firkin sweatshirt, that one was in Lewisham.
Heh, I remember those tee shirts. I seem to remember they a slogan along the lines of "For Fox sake, buy me a Firkin pint"

There used to be a pub on the Old Kent Road (don't know if it's still there) called "The World Turned Upside Down". My dad used to drink there apparently.

Just outside the village of Tadworth in Surrey is a pub called "The Bell", but for some reason has always been known as "The Rat" to the locals.

[ 13. October 2013, 12:23: Message edited by: Spike ]
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
It's a real shame when the old names are replaced by corporate stuff like the Slug and Lettuce chain, and eliminate history. Sometimes it's possible to get them changed back.
The Star in Rolvenden, related to the church dedication to St Mary, spent a brief period under the name of a county cricketer from the village, but the villagers wanted it back, and got it. The Bear and Ragged Staff in Crayford transmogrified into the Orange Kipper, losing its lovely wrought iron sign. The manager off-handedly suggested it had gone into the skip. But it got its name, and the sign, back. (I have never known what the connection with the earldom of Warwick was.)
The Plough in Dulwich, at the end of Plough Lane, now leaves the road without meaning. The Pie and Kilderkin in Forest Hill, after a sojourn as Hobgoblin is now just the Hob. Hobgoblin also eliminated the George Canning in Brixton, with local politico associations.
Not that I go into pubs much. Only for folk singing purposes. But I do like the way they encapsulate history.

[ 13. October 2013, 12:13: Message edited by: Penny S ]
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
When they drove a dual carriageway through the old streets of Dover they lost The Cause is Altered and The Five Alls. (There's a nice web page on the first - the altered cause was the abandonment of smuggling through the secret tunnel from the cellars, apparently) The tunnel apparently linked to the second, with the sign showing a lawyer who pleads for all, a priest who prays for all, a farmer who works for all, a soldier who fights for all, and the devil, who claims all! They were tiny little places. Five Alls You can get to the Cause from that page.
 
Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
The Crown & Sceptre in Streatham became J J Moon's when it was taken over by Wetherspoon, but changed back to its original name after a lot of local pressure.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I wonder how many people have misread "The Five Alls" as "The Five Ales" over the years...
 
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
There is a well-known pub in the Belgian city of Ghent. It stands next to the Leie/Lys River, and it is called 'Waterhouse at the Beerside' (Waterhuis aan de Bierkant). The first time I saw it, it took me some time to find out: what's wrong with this name? [Smile]
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
My Dad was one for slang pub names. The Red Lion would be the "Rampant Cat" (because the sign was usually a lion rampant), The Black Swan was the "Mucky Duck" while my favourite was the "Bird and Bastard", more formally The Eagle and Child, popular in the North-west of England.

Odd that we don't see many named the "Labour in Vain" now, certainly with the traditional sign.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
The Blind Beggar in Whitechapel: the name comes from the legend or romance of Henry de Montfort. The legend is that he survived the Battle of Evesham and wandered the highways and byways of England begging, partly to raise a dowry so he could marry Lady Maud (also called Mad Maud) Mortimer after she was widowed in the same battle.

The Blind Beggar in Whitechapel has two claims to fame: First, it was the place where William Booth first preached the virtues of godliness and temperance, putting him on the path to founding the Salvation Army; Second, it gained notoriety in the 1960s as being the pub where the Ronnie Kray gunned down a gangster called Cornell.

The pub on the green opposite Llandaff Cathedral is The Lamb and Flag and the sign is as you would expect - the Agnus Dei with the wounded side.

Pubs called The Case (or Cause) is Altered get their name from being run by veterans of the Peninsular Wars or their widows and were originally called Casa altera. Modern pub signs showing people in cells or behind bars show only the ignorance of the pub company which owns the house.

Surprised no one has mentioned Oxford's Eagle and Child - loved by all as the Bird & Baby!
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
...

There used to be a pub on the Old Kent Road (don't know if it's still there) called "The World Turned Upside Down". My dad used to drink there apparently.

Flats, I think, when I last went past it a bit over a year ago.
 
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
When I was living in Swansea, Fisherman & Firkin at Oystermouth Road was one of my favourite pubs. I doubt that it still exists though.
 
Posted by QLib (# 43) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
We played different rules: The King's Head was 0 because there were no legs. But that might have been to keep the game mythog around the 3 of us.
The version we played (courtesy of the AA, if memory serves me correctly, involved knocking scores off for Arms. So The Lord Nelson would score one 2-1=1. I think you lost ten for The King's (etc) Arms.

Charles I is often also shown for The Oak or The Old Oak, as he supposedly hid in one after (I think) the Battle of Worcester.

There used to be a pub (somewhere in Lancashire, I think) called The Tirteenth Mounted Cheshire Rifleman. Several of these about I think, except that this one had Mounted crossed out, because the sign showed the man falling off his horse.
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I quote the web page on the tradition of the Dover Cause is altered. But the others would be similar to the Marquis of Granby, wouldn't they? He having funded veterans with the wherewithal for setting them up as a pension.
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Here's the Wikipedia page on pub names, with yet another etymology of Causes being altered.
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Or there would be, if I hadn't got distracted. Pub Names

Nothing on the 5 Alls, or, oddly, The Bull.
 
Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
Originally posted by Curiosity Killed:

quote:
There are a couple I see on my wanders (peripatetic role) - The Widow's Son immediately comes to mind and makes me wonder about the story behind it
I was told, many years ago(used to go there occasionally), that the Widow's Son went to sea and she saved him a hot cross bun every easter until he came back. Which he didn't. Hence, the hot cross buns strung across the bar, still one added each year. The pub was also known as the Bun House.

Don't know how true any of it is (apart from the fact that there are strings of hot cross buns across the bar, or at least there were 35 or so years ago).

M.
 
Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
My local pub is The Rats Castle. They got in trouble when they had a new pub sign made that had a castle looking rather like Windsor.

Near St Pauls in London, there is "The Book, Bell and Candle", which I suspect used to be the diocesan exorcists house, although I have not seen any proof of this.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I remember checking out The Slug and Lettuce menu a few years ago and being put off by seeing "The Slug Burger" on it. (Now renamed as The Classic.)

[ 13. October 2013, 16:45: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 
Posted by Higgs Bosun (# 16582) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:


Some are also just plain daft or contrived. "Jude the Obscure" and "The Philosopher and Firkin" come to mind.
(Forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what is daft or contrived about Jude the Obscure, particularly if the pub were in Wessex or Oxford.)
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:


Some are also just plain daft or contrived. "Jude the Obscure" and "The Philosopher and Firkin" come to mind.
(Forgive me, but I'm not quite sure what is daft or contrived about Jude the Obscure, particularly if the pub were in Wessex or Oxford.)
Which at least one of them is, on the fringes of Jericho, which, lightly disguised, is fairly prominent in Jude the Obscure... OK, the pub was a new build in the past 20 years, but the name is perfectly appropriate.
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
It strikes me as a bit pretentious for a pub name. Still on the Hardy theme, there is also "Far From The Madding Crowd" which is in the heart of the city and prone to being packed out.

Btw, the Bird and Baby has sometimes been known as the Fowl and Foetus.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Or there would be, if I hadn't got distracted. Pub Names

Nothing on the 5 Alls, or, oddly, The Bull.
Good article that, although sad that the inverted commas are almost palpable when it's trying to explain The Black Boy. There are several where I grew up which ARE named for Charles II and have been for 300 odd years....
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
It strikes me as a bit pretentious for a pub name. Still on the Hardy theme, there is also "Far From The Madding Crowd" which is in the heart of the city and prone to being packed out.

Btw, the Bird and Baby has sometimes been known as the Fowl and Foetus.
FFTMC actually keeps its beer *very* well - shame then that it's like drinking in a shop. However, until about 10 minutes ago I was in the Rusty Bicycle. Now that's a silly contrived name.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
quote:
posted by QLib
Charles I is often also shown for The Oak or The Old Oak, as he supposedly hid in one after (I think) the Battle of Worcester.
Its The Royal Oak and is so-called because Charles II hid in one near Boscobel in ? Shropshire after the Battle of Worcester.

Battle of Worcester was 1651 - Charles I executed January 1649.

There are pubs called The Black Boy scattered along the South Coast, which supposedly are so-called because that was the nickname for Charles II when he was younger (he was very sallow) and he spent some weeks travelling along the south coast after Worcester looking for a boat to take him to France.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
quote:
posted by QLib
Charles I is often also shown for The Oak or The Old Oak, as he supposedly hid in one after (I think) the Battle of Worcester.
Its The Royal Oak and is so-called because Charles II hid in one near Boscobel in ? Shropshire after the Battle of Worcester.

Battle of Worcester was 1651 - Charles I executed January 1649.

There are pubs called The Black Boy scattered along the South Coast, which supposedly are so-called because that was the nickname for Charles II when he was younger (he was very sallow) and he spent some weeks travelling along the south coast after Worcester looking for a boat to take him to France.
True, but not just the south coast. The pocket of them I was referring to is in north Worcestershire/South Shropshire. There's a line that the south coast ones have come up with it as a retrospective justification to hide the "true" link to slavery. I can't comment on that, but ours are about as far inland as you can get in the UK, within spitting distance of th Boscobel Oak,and *definitely* to do with Charles II
[Smile]
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
Originally posted by Curiosity Killed:

quote:
There are a couple I see on my wanders (peripatetic role) - The Widow's Son immediately comes to mind and makes me wonder about the story behind it
I was told, many years ago(used to go there occasionally), that the Widow's Son went to sea and she saved him a hot cross bun every easter until he came back. Which he didn't. Hence, the hot cross buns strung across the bar, still one added each year. The pub was also known as the Bun House.

Don't know how true any of it is (apart from the fact that there are strings of hot cross buns across the bar, or at least there were 35 or so years ago).

M.
And IIRC correctly about 20 years ago too.
 
Posted by QLib (# 43) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
quote:
posted by QLib
Charles I is often also shown for The Oak or The Old Oak, as he supposedly hid in one after (I think) the Battle of Worcester.
Its The Royal Oak and is so-called because Charles II hid in one near Boscobel in ? Shropshire after the Battle of Worcester.

Battle of Worcester was 1651 - Charles I executed January 1649.
Yes, whoops [Hot and Hormonal]
Brain cells have taken a battering this week. Sorry. And I agree is it mainly Royal Oaks, but I have seen other Oaks trying to cash in on the game.
 
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Ooh, I knew the story of the Widow's Son just hadn't connected it to that pub there. Apparently the tradition of the hot cross bun was still happening in 2011. I'll have to see if I can get in there. It's looking very woebegone now - a little island of old London amongst new buildings and building sites. A bit like Bow Church, which is isolated on an island in the middle of the A11 with no crossings to it, so you take your life into your hands trying to visit it.

I can't find a reason for the Little Driver, but the pub sign has a train. That pub is more or less opposite the Bow Bells, but that's pretty obvious - the nearest pub to Bow Church.

The Blind Beggar looks as if it's doing OK, unlike so many pubs that I've seen knocked down and rebuilt. The one opposite Custom House DLR has been completely demolished in the last few weeks, as has the one opposite Bonner Bridge into Victoria Park. (I could probably find out what they were called as I probably have photographs)
 
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on :
 
Some people were upset when the Dun Cow, at Stretton on Dunsmore in the Midlands, had its name changed to Crazy Daisy's - but it was in fact highly appropriate. It related to the legend of the Dun Cow, which lived on the Dunsmore and was driven mad when a witch milked it into a sieve. Being a magic cow, it would produce milk until the bucket was full, but with no bucket, it had to keep on giving ad infinitum. Sir Guy of Warwick was the hero who was sent to slay the enraged cow.
Sadly, the building burned down a couple of years ago.
 
Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
We used to play pub cricket when I was a child - equally bored in cars. The Fox and Hounds was a particularly good one to get
Our version has you getting one run for each leg, losing a wicket if its a Head or Arms, and scoring nothing if there are no legs, head, or arms.

The Million Hare in Woolwich was the highest scoring pub in Britain (4,000,000 runs) before it became Clancy's Pub (2 runs). The highest scoring pub that currently exists AFAIK is The Twenty Churchwardens in Cockley Cley, Norfolk (40 runs). My daughter was delighted that she was "in" the one and only time we have driven through Cockley Cley.
 
Posted by HughWillRidmee (# 15614) on :
 
I always smiled when driving past "The Dog House" at Frilford Heath.

If you're going to be in the dog house you might as well......
 
Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :
 
YMMV on Wetherspoons' pubs, but I do like their naming policy of using local connections. Local 'spoons include The Six Chimneys, Titus Salt, The Timepiece. I've just been in The Golden Bee in Stratford-upon-Avon.

Surprised no one has mentioned the 'Help the Poor Struggler', named for landlord and former hangman Albert Pierrepoint.
 
Posted by TonyK (# 35) on :
 
I would like to offer Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem.

It claims to be the oldest pub in England (any challengers?) and is an intriguing place with some bars partially in caves in the cliff.
 
Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
It would be nice if the saloons and pubs around here had such charming names! The Edison doesn't quite have the same quaintness.

But (a bit off topic), when I was with some friends in Malahide, we asked the taxi driver to recommend a place with good food. He suggested The Oil and View. Strange name we thought, but when we took another taxi to dinner, we asked to go to The Oil and View. No problem! When we got there, we discovered our unsuspecting Irish accents had delivered us to The Island View. [Hot and Hormonal]
 
Posted by HughWillRidmee (# 15614) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TonyK:
I would like to offer Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem.

It claims to be the oldest pub in England (any challengers?) and is an intriguing place with some bars partially in caves in the cliff.
The Bell Inn, Finedon makes a similar claim tracing direct descent from 1042 as the Tingdene Hostelrie, a monastic hospice for travellers. The pub has occupied more than one location in the town since then and the assertion may be as spurious as is, I suspect, my, just noticed, old secondary school's claim that "In Our 400 Years Existence We've Always Striven for Excellence" which seems to rest on a rather dodgy connection to a late Elizabethan Dame School.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by HughWillRidmee:
I always smiled when driving past "The Dog House" at Frilford Heath.

If you're going to be in the dog house you might as well......
I've never been there but in the North Lanes in Brighton there's a pub named The Office (I'm sure there was one in or near Reading with that name some years ago). Very handy if you are in a session one afternoon and get a phone call ......
 
Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
... He suggested The Oil and View ...
[Killing me] Maybe I should change my Ship title to "oilander" ...

One of my favourite pub names is The Honest Lawyer - having worked in a lawyers' office I can quite appreciate the irony. [Big Grin]

[ 14. October 2013, 02:26: Message edited by: piglet ]
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
The Fighting Cocks in St Albans also claims to be the oldest pub in England.

Not that it now bears much resemblance to the pub of my youth, having been "gentrified" within an inch of its life and is full of signs saying "mind your head" and "uneven floor" - what would anyone expect in somewhere converted from a 15th century cockpit?
 
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
The Haunch of Venison in Salisbury dates back to about 1320, or possibly earlier, and is also another haunted pub (well, it's not surprising that you'd find spirits in a pub). Also, the Turf Tavern in Oxford is said to have been mentioned in Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales". It's just at the edge of the old city walls, which form part of the back garden, with the tower of New College (built 1379) looming over it. However it sounds as if Tony K's pub wins by about a century.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
The Haunch of Venison in Salisbury dates back to about 1320, or possibly earlier, and is also another haunted pub (well, it's not surprising that you'd find spirits in a pub). Also, the Turf Tavern in Oxford is said to have been mentioned in Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales". It's just at the edge of the old city walls, which form part of the back garden, with the tower of New College (built 1379) looming over it. However it sounds as if Tony K's pub wins by about a century.
The Turf claims "circa 13th century" for its foundations, but the oldest bit standing is 17th century. By the same token, the Bear claims 1242, but is currently located in its own stables, if that makes sense - ie the main pub was where Oxford Analytica and the back of All Bar One now is.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
Sorry for double posting (again). One for the connoisseurs in Oxford is that the oldest pub actually standing is probably the Priory, up behind the Kassam stadium. It started life as, er, a priory, so hasn't always been a pub, but its building (ie the one that is standing there rather than just the foundations a la the Turf, or being on the site, like the Bear) dates from 1445.

Sadly, it closed down over the summer and is now in a very sorry state.
 
Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Oxford also has a Wetherspoons named for a lad who grew up and began his career locally. It's called the Four Candles.

Saffron Walden's Wetherspoons is the Temeraire, after the mount of local lad made good Admiral Sir Eliab Harvey.

Adrian
 
Posted by blackbeard (# 10848) on :
 
On the topic of Wetherspoons ...
not often that one gets a pub named after a woman (other than royalty), after a civil servant, an engineer or a motorbike racer.

Our latest local Wetherspoons is named the "Tilly Shilling", who was all these things and a local character.
 
Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
If it's the Miss Shilling I think, she also had a famous orifice - is that so?

AG
 
Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by TonyK:
I would like to offer Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem.

It claims to be the oldest pub in England (any challengers?) and is an intriguing place with some bars partially in caves in the cliff.
I've been there! With the bars dug into the caves, it's necessary to put a beer mat over your pint when not actually drinking it to stop the debris from the rock falling into it.

Another place that claims to be the oldest pub in England is the Coopers Arms in Rochester.

[ 14. October 2013, 14:05: Message edited by: Spike ]
 
Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :
 
I have a vague recollection of a Wig and Pistle in Norwich. Suspect the area may be a rich seam of interesting pub names.
 
Posted by blackbeard (# 10848) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
If it's the Miss Shilling I think, she also had a famous orifice - is that so?

AG
Indeed so. It limited the fuel flow in a Merlin engine, permitting our aircraft to perform negative-g manoeuvres, thus enabling them to engage German aircraft effectively
 
Posted by Meerkat (# 16117) on :
 
May I be permitted to ass some to the list?

The Volunteer Rifleman's Arms in Bath
The Salamander in Bath
The Skyrack in Headingley, Leeds

I cannot guarantee that they still exist, but they were well-visited by me....... as was 'The Haunch' in Salisbury, the City being my place of birth. I went back there only about six weeks ago and the pub was still as I remember it from the previous visit.
 
Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
We've lost several pubs here in Trumpington in the last decade, all with good old-fashioned names. The Coach and Horses, a seventeenth century coaching inn (I'm guessing Trumpington was the last stop before Cambridge on the coach route from London), is now the very busy Wok and Grill and The Volunteer (our village name gives away a history as an old camp ground) is a little visited Indian restaurant which has changed hands several times. We still have 3 pubs though, The Green Man is the more upmarket one and gets the professionals and foodies, The Tally Ho is a locals pub and The Unicorn has annoyingly rebranded itself as The Lord Byron in an attempt to get some tourist trade from Byron's Pool - the locals now refer to it as the Unibyron.
 
Posted by tessaB (# 8533) on :
 
Our local in our holiday place is the Bell . Not terribly interesting but we've been told that pubs with bell or bells in their name were called after the number of bells in the local church. So a small village with a small church might have a Bell Inn, whereas a large town with a church with a big tower might have the Eight Bells.
 
Posted by Pre-cambrian (# 2055) on :
 
There are a number of pubs (and used to be more) in Grantham with Blue in the name: Blue Pig, Blue Man, Blue Bull. Blue used to be the colour of the local Liberal Party and the pubs date back to the time when drink was used to encourage the voters (or the hecklers).

There was also a Blue Nag which an ex-Shippie commented must have referred to Margaret Thatcher.
 
Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
The Bear and Ragged Staff in Crayford transmogrified into the Orange Kipper, losing its lovely wrought iron sign. The manager off-handedly suggested it had gone into the skip. But it got its name, and the sign, back. (I have never known what the connection with the earldom of Warwick was.)
The usual story, probably entirely made up by some late Victorian journalist, is that pubs would be named after famous generals and admirals (or their badges) by old soldiers retiring to a peaceful life with their variously-gotten gains. And they would tend to be around port towns, or on the roads to the Channel ports, because that's where said soldiers would find themselves when shipped back to Blighty - or perhaps that's where they would want to set up shop to get trade from the next genertion of sailors and soldiers. Hence all those Marquises of Granby from the 18th century and Lord Nelsons from thr 19th - and Bears and Ragged Staffs from the 15th.

Well, its a nice story. I have no idea if there is any evidence.
 
Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
And a bit further into London - I've known of only five pubs called "The Tiger's Head", and all of them are in the bit of suburban south-east London that used to be the north-west end fo Kent. Two in Bromley (one now closed), two in Lee (facing each other over a street. known as the Old Tiger's Head, and the New Tiger's Head) and one in Catford (now closed, demolished, and turned into flats)

Anyone know if thre are any anywhere else? Or if the name has any special connection with SE London or North Kent?
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
The Blackboys Inn at - er - Blackboys in Sussex does not claim descent from Charles II. The current etymology put forward by Harveys is that it was named for the charcoal burners associated with the iron industry who used to drink there. My mother lived in the village in her youth and had not heard that one. It is definitely older than the Stuarts, though, as a Richard de Blakeboys is recorded in the 14th century. I've seen, but simply cannot find, a derivation from the French for wood, which I think my mother had found during research when she was at college.
(ken, do you have access to the Victoria County History for Sussex?)

[ 14. October 2013, 17:51: Message edited by: Penny S ]
 
Posted by Morlader (# 16040) on :
 
The Bucket of Blood, Hayle, Cornwall is said to be the only pub in England* with that name, officially. There are other pubs with that nickname because of bare-knuckle fights which took place in them.

TBoB got its name because of a story about the landlord drawing a BoB from the well because a corpse had been dumped there. But I suspect it may be a corruption of a Cornish name, long forgotten.

*Cornwall is not really England, of course, but joins it at the Tamar (tangentially, one might say).
 
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And a bit further into London - I've known of only five pubs called "The Tiger's Head", and all of them are in the bit of suburban south-east London that used to be the north-west end fo Kent. Two in Bromley (one now closed), two in Lee (facing each other over a street. known as the Old Tiger's Head, and the New Tiger's Head) and one in Catford (now closed, demolished, and turned into flats)

Anyone know if thre are any anywhere else? Or if the name has any special connection with SE London or North Kent?
Interesting. Didn't one of them- possibly the Catford one- change its name for a time after a shooting in, I suppose, the 60s or early 70s? Possibly to the Governor-General, or that may be another pub altogether.
 
Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 
In Leicester, near the railway station, there's a pub called The Last Plantagenet.
 
Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:

(ken, do you have access to the Victoria County History for Sussex?)
Might be a copy in the college library - but their online index doesn't have any hits for Framfield or Uckfield so it might be they haven't got to that part yet.

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Interesting. Didn't one of them- possibly the Catford one- change its name for a time after a shooting in, I suppose, the 60s or early 70s? Possibly to the Governor-General, or that may be another pub altogether.
There was a Governor-General pub in Downham which was closed by the police in the 1990s. I went there a few times but I don;t know if had a previous name. The one I was thinking of was at the bottom opf the hill near the pool on the Ravesnbourne where the big Sainsbury's Homebase is now. Cornr of Southend Lane and Bromley Road, near Bellingham and beckenham Hill stations. It was a (huge) modern building built on the site of an older pub. Also had a bit of a reputation for nasty goings-on. I know an ex-landlord of it.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
In my RN. Days I was an habitué of the wonderfully named Still and West of England Inn. Other good Pompey names were The Ship Leopard and The Spice Island.

Kidderminster has The King and Castle, but only those in the know would appreciate this is after the two classes of locomotives of those names built by the Great Western Railway.
 
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :
 
We have T'Old Steam Pig in Huddersfield, the name celebrates old woolen mill machinery. Going further back, and celebrating the Luddite heritage of the town, is the Croppers Arms.
 
Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 
Isn't the bear with a ragged staff the county symbol for Warwickshire?

Blackbeard, I used to live in Farnborough (attended the Church of the Good Shepherd) so know the Tilly Shilling well.

In Eastbourne there is a pub called The Lamb Inn which dates from 1180 - the sign is the haloed lamb with flag. The church next door is almost as old, and used to have a tunnel connecting it to the pub.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Isn't the bear with a ragged staff the county symbol for Warwickshire?

.
Yes, which was the badge of Warwick the Kingmaker - hence why there are so many of them around in middle England where his levees came from. It is also worn today by Warwickshire County Cricket Club (spit).
 
Posted by St. Stephen the Stoned (# 9841) on :
 
In Bristol there's a pub called The Bear and Rugged Staff, which always annoyed me. As did some of the customers.

[ 15. October 2013, 07:48: Message edited by: St. Stephen the Stoned ]
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
The New Tiger's Head at Lee is now defunct, but has seemed to have some odd occupants - not your usual squatters, more Eastern European, and families. Only saw them once, though. I usually try to avoid that route because the traffic is vile at that junction.

The Rose of Lee has transmogrified into The Dirty South.

The Paxton at the bottom of the hill below the Crystal Palace mast spent a bit of time as something gothic and painted black (Dungeon? Crypt?) but now celebrates Paxton again.
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
I found this on the Lee Tigers' Heads - no real history of the origin of the big cat association.

Look down the Page
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Here's the Catford one.

The dead cat, now demolished.

The Bromley, Mason's Hill, one was first mentioned in 1706.

There's one in Mildenhall, Suffolk. First publican recorded in 1830.

Here's one in Chiselhurst - apparently the tiger's head was the crest of the Walsinghams, who owned a lot of the area. The site has been an inn since the 15th century. Interestingly, it shares with the Lee inns an association with out of town gaming.

Chiselhurst's tiger - watch out for pop ups

There's one in Norley, Cheshire.

So, the South London scatter seems related to the Walsingham estates - I can't find any such connection for Cheshire and Suffolk.
 
Posted by hanginginthere (# 17541) on :
 
What would The Cricketers (in North Finchley, London) score in pub cricket?
 
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Meerkat:
The Skyrack in Headingley, Leeds

I cannot guarantee that they still exist,
The Rack is still there, or was as of last year. It was a favourite haunt of mine back in my student days [Big Grin] .

We don't have too many weird and wonderful pub names round here, but The Old Contemptibles is a fairly uncommon name. The Old Joint Stock is appropriately named, as it's in a former bank. And I've always liked the rustic charm implied in The Old House At Home.

There's some Civil War history in the area, as seen in pubs like The Fairfax and The Camp (near where the said parliamentarian general's army stayed during the brief siege of a local royalist fortification).

But my favourite, sadly now gone the way of so many other pubs, was The Jolly Fitter. It was one of the drinking houses of choice for workers at the Austin car factory (now also sadly departed), hence the name.
 
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Meerkat:
The Skyrack in Headingley, Leeds

I cannot guarantee that they still exist,
The Rack is still there, or was as of last year. It was a favourite haunt of mine back in my student days [Big Grin] .

We don't have too many weird and wonderful pub names round here, but The Old Contemptibles is a fairly uncommon name. The Old Joint Stock is appropriately named, as it's in a former bank. And I've always liked the rustic charm implied in The Old House At Home.

There's some Civil War history in the area, as seen in pubs like The Fairfax and The Camp (near where the said parliamentarian general's army stayed during the brief siege of a local royalist fortification).

But my favourite, sadly now gone the way of so many other pubs, was The Jolly Fitter. It was one of the drinking houses of choice for workers at the Austin car factory (now also sadly departed), hence the name.
The Old Contemptibles and the Old Joint Stock are both old haunts of mine from 6th form days (and, indeed, 14 years later, Christmas reunion drinking) - as is the equally left-field named Tap & Spile. The OC in particular is a lovely pub, dripping with history (and purveyor of excellent pies). We also used to frequent the Gun Barrels (after Birmingham's gunmaking heritage) but only because it was the closest pub to school, not because it was in anyway good....

The Old House At Home sounds rustic, but then you realise it's in Blakedown and the illusion rather crumbles. Still, it's a better pub than the Swan I suppose.
 
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by hanginginthere:
What would The Cricketers (in North Finchley, London) score in pub cricket?
I expect it would score 22 for eleven players, although if the sign showed a game in play I'm sure someone would claim 26, to include the batsmen.
 
Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by hanginginthere:
What would The Cricketers (in North Finchley, London) score in pub cricket?
I expect it would score 22 for eleven players, although if the sign showed a game in play I'm sure someone would claim 26, to include the batsmen.
The Cricketers scores 4 points. If the number is not specified, then you assume two of the thing. So Horse and Hounds is 12 points, 4 for the horse and 2x4 for the hounds. Coach and Horses is 8 points, Fox and Hounds is 12 points, The Swan is 2 points, The Swans is 4 points, The Seven Swans is 14 points.

The Cricket Team, however, is 22 points.
 
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
as is the equally left-field named Tap & Spile.
I thought of mentioning that, but it's not that left field - a tap is a device used to get beer out of a cask, and a spile is a device used to control the flow of air into a cask.

quote:
We also used to frequent the Gun Barrels (after Birmingham's gunmaking heritage) but only because it was the closest pub to school, not because it was in anyway good...
If you mean the one in Selly Oak, that's gone now as well [Frown] .

quote:
The Old House At Home sounds rustic, but then you realise it's in Blakedown and the illusion rather crumbles. Still, it's a better pub than the Swan I suppose.
I was thinking of the one between Harborne and Bearwood, but the same comment applies in either case!
 
Posted by Sighthound (# 15185) on :
 
The Q Inn is a very strange name (Stalybridge).

Personally, I'm always surprised at how many White Harts there are, given that Richard II (whose badge it was) was deposed in 1399 and is commonly supposed to have been unpopular. Perhaps his Cheshire Archers all went off and opened pubs.
 
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sighthound:
The Q Inn is a very strange name (Stalybridge).

Personally, I'm always surprised at how many White Harts there are, given that Richard II (whose badge it was) was deposed in 1399 and is commonly supposed to have been unpopular. Perhaps his Cheshire Archers all went off and opened pubs.
I suppose it might be pertinent to ask who he was unpopular with.

There's an odd thing about King John who "was not a good man, who had his little ways" (A A Milne). When the French invaded, with the support of the barons for the Dauphin to usurp the throne, he called out the tradition armed bands of the common people (the old Saxon fyrd). He had no means to enforce this. But they came. And fought. And defeated the French for him. And, further, when the Pope imposed interdict on the whole nation to bring the possibly atheist John to heel over the choice of ABC, the populace, expected to rise in outcry about being denied the sacraments, and burial in consecrated ground, did nothing of the sort and went calmly on doing whatever they did. So who was John unpopular with?

Perhaps the same applied with Richard. After all, if he had not been popular, inns suggesting support would not have done good business, whoever set them up. I imagine they would not have been popular with Henry IV, though.
 
Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :
 
We've got some goo pub names in York, as you might expect.

The Hansom Cab is so named because the cab's inventor, Joseph Hansom was born in York.

When the York Brewery opened its first three pubs, they all had names that riffed around the theme of hanging.

The Three Legged Mare is the stool you stood on before it was kicked out from under you, The Last Drop Inn refers to the drop that killed you, and The Rook and Gaskill refers to the last two men hanged in York.
 
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
I'm not sure if its still there - it was in 2010 - but there's a pub in Pembroke called The Cross Saws Inn. I've never encountered another of the name, have you?

It served a decent pint and standard ham roll on a hot summer day.
 
Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :
 
Naming new pubs can be contentious too. There's a pub in town which opened last year, and was initially going to be called The Sanderling, which is a seabird which we don't have around here [Roll Eyes] .

However the brewery saw sense and the pub is called The Starling Cloud, in reference to the starlings which roost on the pier.

I think it's a lovely name, although it's a shame it's in English rather than Welsh.
 


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