Thread: Little Miss Know-It All, the Reformedstress Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=026867

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
My name is Jengie Jon and I am Reformed.

In fact, I am so Reformed that I am the most Reformed person in the entire world. Tomorrow I will be even more Reformed and even more insufferable than I am today. Semper Reformanda!

You see, I know everything there is to know about being Reformed because I invented it. Yes, difficult to believe isn't it? But I'm actually hundreds of years old and I happened to write Calvin's Institutes for him.

Yes, that's right. He came to me in Geneva and said, 'Oh great and wise Jengie, you who know everything there is to know about theology and the ways of God, can you help me with this manuscript I'm writing?'
'Certainly, Jean,' I said, I called him Jean you see. 'What's it about?'
'It's called Institutes of the Christian Religion and sets out the great truths of salvation, life the universe and everything.'
'Easy-peasy, just hand it over to me Jean and save yourself the trouble. I'll ghost-write it for you and hand it back to you by lunchtime tomorrow.'
'Merci, Jengie,' he said. 'You're a real star!'

So, I set to work and it didn't take me very long. Simples. You see, my father is the greatest theologian who has ever lived. I learned so much from him. That's how I was able to write the Institutes so quickly, because I knew it all already.

Of course, my father was never as Reformed as I was. Nowhere near. That would be completely impossible.

I'm so Reformed that I'll be more Reformed by this afternoon than I am now. In fact I'm so Reformed I'll be even more Reformed by the time I've finished typing this.

And I'm certainly more Reformed than anyone else on the Ship. None of you who claim to be Reformed or even reformed are anywhere near as Reformed as me.

Take these Anglicans who consider themselves to be Reformed ... pah! They don't know the meaning of the word.

And thanks to my infallible gift of second-sight I am able to discern and assume which Shipmates have actually read any Baxter without bothering to even ask them to find out. I'm sure Chris Stiles and Gamaliel haven't read a whiff of him ...

Oh yes, I'm proud to be Reformed. I'm proud to know exceedingly, abundantly and far in excess beyond anything else that others might say on the subject.

I'm so Reformed that I change my own body shape daily. Yesterday I amputated my hands and feet and swapped them over so that my left foot was on my right wrist and vice-versa. Same with the other hand and foot. But that's not going far enough. I'll reform and transform my shape even more so that I'll vivisect a copy of 'The Saints' Everlasting Rest' onto my elbow.

I'll even remove my head and place it onto my backside so I can talk down to the rest of you unreformed types in the way you deserve ...
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Gamaliel

If you would realise my point was accuracy of reading a particular author who is a wrongly read by Reformed as others. So, no I am not playing the Reformed card here; I am playing the card I have read this guy, and he does not say what is being implied in this thread.

There is no natural link between Richard Baxters family catechism classes and modern pastoral care to the sick and the housebound. The pastor visiting his members in times of trouble is not the teaching elder summoning members to his house to receive individual instruction. That goes in every tradition whether that is Reformed, Anglican, or Roman Catholic. Yes I had been told what Baxter said as a Reformed Christian but when I read it I found it was significantly different. It is part of the reason I posted that.

That is what I meant, and that is what I am responding to.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Pyx_e (# 57) on :
 
Sometimes a piece of straw bears little resemblence to the metric shit ton of stuff (placed on the camel) that came before.
 

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Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
Links would be helpful.

Well, they might not be edifying, but for those who decide they WANT to know what the blazes this is about, they'd be helpful.

orfeo
Hellhost
 

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Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
It's an old story; JJ sometimes reads 'reformed' as 'Reformed'. I've done the same thing on threads where I've engaged - an honest mistake I think rather than an alternative implied intention.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
My Hellish point is broader than the incident to which Jengie refers.

The flash-point was in Purgatory in the Lay Knowledge of the CofE thread where Jengie dotted the i's and crossed the t's for Chris Stiles and myself following a fairly off-the-cuff remark about household visitation by visitors.

I'm too bone idle to supply a link but there we go ...



Chris Stiles made the point that household visitation can be seen as part and parcel of the job by some clergy and that Baxter regarded it as such. Sure, the context was a discussion about visits to the elderly and house-bound and home-communion and so on ... but I don't see any implication in what Chris or I posted that suggested that Baxter was doing anything other than what he was doing ...

Yes, he was catechising people and that's clear from his writings, including his autobiography which is what I had in mind.

So, yes, Jengie was right. That's not what I was disputing.

I often look to Jengie's posts for informed comment on Reformed issues and I do bow to her superior wisdom in that regard ... she's knows a heck of a lot more about the Reformed tradition than the rest of us no doubt.

That doesn't stop me winding her up for her prissy and know-it-all tone though.

That's the point. Not what she said but the way she said it.

Sure, sometimes it's right to dot i's and cross-t's and introduce points of information. Fair enough.

But there are ways of doing that without assuming that other posters are completely pig-ignorant and haven't read any of the material in question.

Hence the Hell-call.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Absolutely, Fletcher. I couldn't agree more.

As it happens, I enjoy Jengie's posts. I like reading what she has to say. She talks sense.

What I don't like is this whole schtick of, 'I know better than everyone else because I'm more Reformed than they are and even the reformed aren't properly reformed and my Dad's bigger than your Dad and is the cleverest man who ever existed ...' which sticks in my craw.
 

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Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm too bone idle to supply a link but there we go ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
But there are ways of doing that without assuming that other posters are completely pig-ignorant and haven't read any of the material in question.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
IT isn't my strong point. I admit it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
... but I'd appreciate being pointed in the right direction of the playpen/practice area ... I've never bothered mastering the UBB coding and all that malarkey in all the years I've posted aboard Ship.

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Copy the website/link address (Ctrl C)
Click 'URL'
Paste the website/link in the box provided(Ctrl V)
Click return/enter
Write whatever you want the link to say
Click return/enter

Easy as blinking

Practice it here Thread started in 2005!

[ 10. December 2013, 10:50: Message edited by: Boogie ]
 

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Posted by Ann (# 94) on :
 
When you're trying to link to a particular SoF post in a thread, if you click on the little rectangle above the line on the post you want (first item on the left of the line), it re-draws the page with that post on the top - then all you have to do is copy (Ctrl-C) the information in the address bar of your browser - it will start with "forum.ship-of-fools".

If you are quoting from a different thread from the one you're posting on, it's easiest have both threads open in different tabs or windows.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Ok - let's see if this works. Here's the thread I was referring to:

http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=018478;p=5#000246

As for farting about with the 'bold' and 'quotes' functions and so on, I'll do that at some point when I next have need.

Sure, I've ignored them for years so it's about time I started using them and that's what I'll try to do. I know it wouldn't be complicated, even for me, but I've just never been arsed to get round to it. Like lots of other things.

Meanwhile, should the thread be closed?

Up to you, Orfeo, but I'm happy to leave it open so I can rant at Jengie Jon for being such a Goody-Two-Shoes and bloody well right all the time ...

I'm sure anyone deserves a Hell-call if they're infallible. Heck, if Pope Francis were on-board he'd deserve one too ...
 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 
Gamaliel, have you really made 8200 posts (and typed who knows how many words ) on SoF without getting to grips with the quote function? That's impressive...
 

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Posted by the giant cheeseburger (# 10942) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Gamaliel, have you really made 8200 posts (and typed who knows how many words ) on SoF without getting to grips with the quote function? That's impressive...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Up to you, Orfeo, but I'm happy to leave it open so I can rant at Jengie Jon for being such a Goody-Two-Shoes and bloody well right all the time ...

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Or you could spend the same amount of time dealing with the multiplicity of psychological flaws that are compelling you to do so.

Nah.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Aw, shucks ...

I'm pretty dysfunctional in other aspects of life, so I can't see why I should act any differently in here.

So, contra Marvin the Martian, there is something I'm good at and take a pride in ... my own ineptitude!

I will get to grips with the bold and quotes functions, if only to add some weight to my inconsequential and flimsy posts.

Whatever the case, Jengie Jon is still perfect and knows everything and deserves to be called to Hell for that very reason.
 

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Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
Oh fuck off Gamaliel. Go be irate about something worth being irate about.

[ 10. December 2013, 13:32: Message edited by: Evensong ]
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Fair enough. I'll get irate about people like you. Jengie Jon may unwittingly irritate me at times but she's not a first class pain in the arse like you are on whatever subject you're bloviating about.
 

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Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
Comes from excessive verbal/linguistic intelligence. I just can't help it. It's innate.
 

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Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 
But don't stress too much. Most of Hell is full of small minds and little lives at the moment.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Excessive verbal flatulence, you mean Evensmog. I can smell your farts from here.
 

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Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 
Gama, stop making me want to stand up for Evenshit. It's putting me off my dinner.
 

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Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Francophile:
As a newcomer and almost complete illiterate theologically, I enjoy reading Jengie's posts. She's a heavyweight intellectually and theologically. I detect here a smidgeon of contempt that a mere gal can out-theologize the boys.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Aw, shucks ...

I'm pretty dysfunctional in other aspects of life, so I can't see why I should act any differently in here.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Wrong part of Cheshire.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel
I've never bothered mastering the UBB coding and all that malarkey in all the years I've posted aboard Ship.

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We've noticed.

Funny, but I always thought that this idiosyncrasy was a gesture of ... how shall I put it?... aristocratic self-indulgence that disdained following the proper procedures, in order to feel exempt from the normal rules of engagement and etiquette that only apply to the riffraff. A bit like refusing to wear a seat belt or indicating at junctions, practices with which only "the little people" need comply. A quietly bloody-minded and supercilious act of hubris. A small symbolic - even poetic - assertion of one's own sense of entitlement.

It never once occurred to me that you were just bloody crap at IT!

How prosaic.

I'm disappointed...
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Can a hostly post be called to Hell or does that get one planked? Still trying to sort all of this Hell and Styx stuff out.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Caissa:
Can a hostly post be called to Hell or does that get one planked? Still trying to sort all of this Hell and Styx stuff out.

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Hostly Informative

It probably isn't a great idea but it can be done (if you're brave).

Did the host post officially, ie with the hostly trappings or in "plain clothes" as a shipmate?

If any of the hostly trappings, eg, the wearing of hostly headgear, or a tagline like "Joe Stoat, Hell host" appears, then it's a Hosting post and can only be taken up in The Styx (if at all). Only if no hosting id. appears can you take it up in Hell.

(You might want to PM a host.)

Hope that helps.

/Hostly Informative

Sioni Sais
Hellhost

[ 10. December 2013, 17:20: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Thanks, Sioni Sais. That was very clear.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Sorry to disappoint you, EE. But as I tend to the view that most things are both/and rather than either/or then you were probably right to an extent with your first assumption ...

There is a strain of disdain alongside being crap at IT.

Hope that makes you feel better ...

I do tend to shoot myself in the foot in my Hell-threads, Zach82. It's part of the irony. Not that I'd expect you to understand that ... IT has never been my strong point, irony has never been yours.
 

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Posted by goperryrevs (# 13504) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I do tend to shoot myself in the foot in my Hell-threads

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I do tend to shoot myself in the foot in my Hell-threads, Zach82. It's part of the irony. Not that I'd expect you to understand that ... IT has never been my strong point, irony has never been yours.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I do tend to shoot myself in the foot in my Hell-threads, Zach82. It's part of the irony. Not that I'd expect you to understand that ... IT has never been my strong point, irony has never been yours.

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There's nothing ironic about it. It's lame.

With the result that Jengie Jon looks even classier than she already was.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Fair calls. If it's lame it's because I've shot myself in the foot whilst returning to my own vomit.

But if trying to polish a turd in here has added an extra lustre to Jengie Jon's reputation then I'm quite prepared to take the rap.

The woman is a class act. No doubt about that.

But she's like Julie Andrews. The Sound of Music was the one film I've seen where I've wanted the Germans to win ...

Perhaps it's just me. But I can't be the only person who's irritated because Little Miss Jengie is right all the freakin' time ...


 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
It's likely just you.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
I know different ...
 

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Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Nowt to do with gender. Jengie knows her stuff. I'm cool with that. As it happens she was completely on the button about Baxter.It's clear from his autobiography that he didn't go round to people's homes but invited them around to his so he could catechise them.

So she's right once again ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
How do I know? I just looked it up in my copy of his autobiography. Unlike Jengie I don't have a photographic memory of every single thing I've read in my life.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Which is different to not ever having read it at all ... but then Jengie was referring to The Reformed Pastor and yes, I admit, I haven't actually read that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
This thread isn't about sour grapes though,

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I'm more than happy to admit when I'm wrong.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Anoesis, this is Hell, not Purgatory. Quit your self-righteous lecture and sod off.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Anoesis, this is Hell, not Purgatory. Quit your self-righteous lecture and sod off.

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Actually self-righteous lectures are proscribed in Purgatory. This is the place.
 

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Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
Forget shooting yourself in the foot. This is beginning to feel like watching as someone lodges their own axe in their skull.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
I'll take the hatchet out of my own skull if you take the plank from your own eye ...

Or something like that.

As for cheek, it's my middle name.

As for everything else that's been said - guilty as charged.

But I still think Jengie Jon deserves a for being right all the time.

And I know I'm not alone in that opinion ...



But I'm the only one, as far as I know, who has started a Hellthread over it and taken the rap and the roasting that this entails. Not that I mind too much, I'm thick-skinned and I brought in on myself.
 

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Posted by Laurelin (# 17211) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
But I still think Jengie Jon deserves a for being right all the time.

And I know I'm not alone in that opinion ...

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Passive-aggressive. So where are they, then? The Ship is not exactly a place where shy little wallflowers hold back with their opinions. I don't see a queue of people lining up to give Jengie Jon a hard time. That's because she's a dignified poster who doesn't say things to deliberately wind other people up. I'm no expert on Reformed theology and I don't take offence at people like her who are.

If you're spoiling for a fight then I can't help wondering why, of all people, you picked on JJ.
 

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Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on :
 
Spot on Laurelin.
 

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Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Laurelin:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
But I still think Jengie Jon deserves a for being right all the time.

And I know I'm not alone in that opinion ...

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Passive-aggressive. So where are they, then? The Ship is not exactly a place where shy little wallflowers hold back with their opinions. I don't see a queue of people lining up to give Jengie Jon a hard time. That's because she's a dignified poster who doesn't say things to deliberately wind other people up. I'm no expert on Reformed theology and I don't take offence at people like her who are.

If you're spoiling for a fight then I can't help wondering why, of all people, you picked on JJ.

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Because sometimes she can be so bloody smug. I'm thinking of a discussion some time ago on preparations for reading lessons in worship, when she strongly implied, pretty much, that if you didn't take three hours (I think literally) to prepare a reading, you are not taking it seriously.
I don't think I'd have started a Hell call for her because like most people I recognise the quality and frequent very good sense of most of what she posts, and respect her for it, and as with any of us you have to take the rough with the smooth. But while I think that Gamaliel has over-reacted a bit, I can see where he's coming from.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
I have over-reacted and I know I'm not alone because people have told me ... but 'that would be telling' (as we used to say at school) if I were to 'out' them.

I'm actually quite sorry that I started this Hellthread - as I am whenever I start one. I keep resolving not to, but 'I can resist anything except temptation.'

Just because I call people to Hell occasionally doesn't mean I loathe them nor that I don't respect them either. I respect Jengie enormously and have learned a huge amount both from her posts and her demeanour and Shipboard behaviour.

Shame I haven't put it into practice ...

It's not so much what she says, but the way that she says it sometimes.

I'm not unduly bothered about her intervention on the thread that triggered the Hellish OP but it just happened to wind me up ... 'If you'd read the original text' - which I bloody well had (or at least, one of them).

The implication was that Chris Stiles and myself were complete ignoramuses and that only she, the great and wise Jengie was qualified to comment.

I remember the incident Albertus was referring to and my reaction was the same. How bloody smug.

Sure, I annoy people. We can all annoy people. I probably deserve more Hell calls than I receive.

I dunno, it's just this bloody know-it-all impression she conveys sometimes, that and her Dad being the best and most knowledgeable person in the entire history of mankind ...

Hang around. You'll notice it.


 

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Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I probably deserve more Hell calls than I receive.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I have over-reacted and I know I'm not alone because people have told me ... but 'that would be telling' (as we used to say at school) if I were to 'out' them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Indeed.

No, not the lurkers ... the neighbours. But that's not the issue.

In fact, I've forgotten what the issue was ...

Oh yes ... Jengie knowing everything. Well, I do find that annoying at times. She's like a prefect.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Evensnot ought to a have permanent roost here.

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What profiteth it thee to kick against the goads?
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Fair enough, Jengie. But I'd read the book - or at least one of them, not the one you had in mind ... ... and yes, I'd forgetten the details. When I looked them up, I found that you were right.

In fact you're always right.

Which is why I'm annoyed at you ...

Nothing Reformed about that.


 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
For fuck's sake, would you stop with the sodding emoticons.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Don't look at them, then.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Here just for you, Lamb Chopped calling me for being wrong as far as I can check correctly.

I will notice next time I get to read through the relevant pages if they are different, but Lamb Chops reference is the closest that I could find with a brief search.

If I am wrong I tend to shut up because otherwise I tend to argue. That does not mean I do not read and inwardly digest.

Jengie

[ 12. December 2013, 19:03: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
Aaarrgghhh!!!

She's right again!


 

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Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
If I am wrong I tend to shut up because otherwise I tend to argue.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
For fuck's sake, would you stop with the sodding emoticons.

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quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
For fuck's sake, would you stop with the sodding emoticons.

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He's never learnt how to press 'quote' instead of 'reply', but by golly he's found the instant smilies and he's going to use them!

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quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
If I am wrong I tend to shut up because otherwise I tend to argue.

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There's a lesson in there for us all. Isn't there, Gamaliel?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:

quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
If I am wrong I tend to shut up because otherwise I tend to argue.

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There's a lesson in there for us all. Isn't there, Gamaliel?

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Indeed.

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So fucking learn it already.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
How do you know I haven't?

Time will tell.
 

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Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
How do you know I haven't?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Is this how you use the quotes function?

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quote:

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Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Evensnot ought to a have permanent roost here.

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What profiteth it thee to kick against the goads?

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I merely agreed with the man.
 

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Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :
 
At least I've learned how to use the quotes function now, Marvin and the links function.

I'm cooking on gas. After 8,000 odd posts. Surely that's some progress, if not a cause for celebration as such?

I'm grateful to Orfeo, Boogie and other Shipmates for the directions.

You may live to regret showing me the ropes, but that's par for the course.

I'll stop mixing metaphors and leave you all in peace for a while.
 

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Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
Hey ho, she's at it again. Discussion of ecclesiastical biographies over in Heaven, she mentions forthcoming biography of pioneering woman Congregationalist minister, I say- with a attached- that now we know what she's doing her PhD on. Intended in a friendly way and at any rate harmless enough, you'd have thought?

Reply:

quote:

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No, I am doing my PhD on what I say I am.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Albertus

You chose to try and basically claim I was advertising a book I was writing, which is against ship rules and you wonder why I answered as I did.

I think you could do with some self examination as well.

Jengie

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quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:
I''m thinking of renaming this thread "Place for people who've got the wrong end of the stick with Jengie to hug and make up".

Not especially catchy, I know, but informative.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Let's start a 'We love Jengie Jon' thread in Heaven.

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