Ship of Fools: Bible Disposal

Thread: Bible Disposal Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Bullfrog. (# 11014) on :

So, I noticed two bibles outside of church today, rather beat up old KJVs with family records inside going back almost a century, one even contained a wedding invitation from the 1960s. The covers were falling apart.

I asked pastor what to do with them, and she said that folks often gave their old bibles to churches, as if they didn't know how to dispose of them themselves.

What do y'all do with the likes of these? Just throw them away? Start a collection? Recycle them?

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

If a recycling bin takes books, then recycle.

otherwise, refuse bin.

Posted by hatless (# 3365) on :

You could give them a funeral and bury them.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

Save them up, and have a bonfire on halloween.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Holy Fuck! Am I the only one concerned about the family history discarded? Not only that the family would discard their own history, but it is in the small records like this that a composite picture of everyday life is built. We go to museums and see the preserved records of the posh, but the record of the everyday is so much more scarce.
No disrespect, but the bibles themselves are generally insignificant. That scrawled within by the owners, much more precious.

Posted by Nicolemr (# 28) on :

ilBuddha is right. A local history society or museum is the right place for them.

Posted by agingjb (# 16555) on :

I once scrapped a disintegrating works of Shakespeare,with a little regret (although I've long ago replaced it (Oxford, the one that Harold Bloom detests) .

I have a similarly collapsing BCP (which I've replaced by the Oxford 1549, 1559, 1662), but not yet scrapped - and probably won't).

A Bible? My ever superstitious undercurrents remember "Treasure Island". Fortunately my two bibles, and three other NTs aren't yet losing pages. "Oh come on" you say, and rightly so.

Posted by basso (# 4228) on :

All too many local history museums are stuffed full of things that people have donated because they didn't want to throw them away.

Posted by agingjb (# 16555) on :

Ah yes, the Mathom House at Michel Delving.

Posted by Bullfrog. (# 11014) on :

Calling it a "family history" was probably putting it a bit strongly, there were four or so death dates written into each. One of them had some personal affects stuck in it, but this was not a source of extensive genealogical data.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

This is an issue that pains me a bit in my work in the book section of a charity shop. Bibles don't seem to kept - they're sent away to be pulped. I find it hard to do this to a Bible that doesn't even look as if it's been read very much. On one occasion I simply priced a children's Bible as normal, and left it for my boss to throw away later. (Fortunately, very few Bibles are donated anyway.)

Muslims don't treat the Quran like this.

[ 02. March 2014, 20:34: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posted by OddJob (# 17591) on :

I've always been thankful that we don't face the same no-win situation as the Muslims. Destroying a Holy Book is blasphemy, but so is using a defaced one. So what is one supposed to do - never read or use it for fear of defacing it? Surely a greater blasphemy?

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

We've had people regularly attempting to dispose of them to us as we're "missions", but that doesn't work too well when the Bibles are KJV. I've sometimes thought what we need is a version of the Genizah concept, where you can dispose of them but at the same time show honor to what they have been used for. Maybe using them for compost around church trees etc.?

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

Svitlana wrote:

quote:
Muslims don't treat the Quran like this.

Maybe they don't. Though I'm not sure if I would say that that's a tribute to Islam's religious sensitivity, or a symptom of quasi-animistic fetishism. (Nothing against Islam, all religions have their "juvenile" aspects.)

And it's kind of ironic: some Christians love to brag about how the Bble is "the world's number one best-seller", and harangue everyone about the need to hand out as many copies as possible.

All well and good. But if you're gonna cheer the fact that there are a zillion cheap bibles being cranked off the presses every year, don't expect each individual copy to be treated as a precious work of divine craftsmanship.

Years ago, I read a report about some Muslims who were complaining that McDonalds put the Saudi flag on a "Flags Of The World" themed wrapper for their burgers. The objection being that the flag contains a verse from the Koran, and thus should not placed on something that will be casually tossed in garbage cans.

I recall thinking: "Well, if you don't want that verse being mass produced, tell the Saudis to take it off their bloody flag."

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

And here's something to think about...

If I started a website containing the complete text of the Bible, and then decided to shut the wesbite down, does that count as destroying a bible?

Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Maybe they don't. Though I'm not sure if I would say that that's a tribute to Islam's religious sensitivity, or a symptom of quasi-animistic fetishism. (Nothing against Islam, all religions have their "juvenile" aspects.)

I think it can come down to the latter at the level of folk religion - nevertheless, the view of the Koran is that it is in some way perfect and eternal and was transmitted exactly by God himself, so there are good reasons why more reflective Muslims might hold to this attitude.

Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
This is an issue that pains me a bit in my work in the book section of a charity shop. Bibles don't seem to kept - they're sent away to be pulped.

I can see a couple of reasons why this might be the case. Bibles are often marked inside, and it can be easier to discard them rather than check for this. Furthermore, most of them are - ideally - in daily use by a single person and thus they have a personal aspect to them that other books don't often have, so I can see why people might prefer to buy them brand new.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

I picked up a set of religious books from an estate sale for an old Catholic couple. Inside the books were similar personal effects, including prayer cards which were handed out at funerals 60 years ago, asking for prayers for the souls of the people being buried. Just be glad it was just family histories; the thought that I might be this person's best shot at a shortened stay in a Dante-style Purgatory scares the hell out of me.

Posted by basso (# 4228) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:

Years ago, I read a report about some Muslims who were complaining that McDonalds put the Saudi flag on a "Flags Of The World" themed wrapper for their burgers. The objection being that the flag contains a verse from the Koran, and thus should not placed on something that will be casually tossed in garbage cans.

I recall thinking: "Well, if you don't want that verse being mass produced, tell the Saudis to take it off their bloody flag."

It was around the time of the World Cup. Saudi Arabia had qualified, and McD was a sponsor.

It's not so long ago that US attitudes to our flag were much more extreme than they are now. I can remember people foaming at the mouth at somebody wearing a pair of jeans with a US flag image stitched across the butt. Probably wouldn't draw a second glance today.

Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :

My mother was someone who balked at throwing away Bibles, even the freebie Gideon NTs. I kind of like the other LC's suggestion to use them as mulch or compost...paper makes excellent compost, especially during the summer when it's sometimes hard to find enough "browns" to balance out the "greens." I also know someone who makes beads out of strips of paper like glossy magazine pages or ad inserts -- she has a little machine that rolls them up -- that might make an interesting upcycle.

Posted by Stetson (# 9597) on :

quote:
It's not so long ago that US attitudes to our flag were much more extreme than they are now. I can remember people foaming at the mouth at somebody wearing a pair of jeans with a US flag image stitched across the butt. Probably wouldn't draw a second glance today.

Yes, flag festishism is in the same category as book worship.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
We've had people regularly attempting to dispose of them to us as we're "missions", but that doesn't work too well when the Bibles are KJV. I've sometimes thought what we need is a version of the Genizah concept, where you can dispose of them but at the same time show honor to what they have been used for. Maybe using them for compost around church trees etc.?

Posted by chris stiles (# 12641) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Yes, flag festishism is in the same category as book worship.

Again, what's worshipped is not the book. It's more to do with differences between the sacred/common/profane etc.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Agreed. But despite my stance on bibliolatry, I must confess to being squeamish about throwing old Bibles away.

I think there's a wider debate yet to be had about the impact of electronic books on perceptions of The Book™, too.

Posted by Horseman Bree (# 5290) on :

Does a Bible for Kindle or Nook count? Does it actually "exist" as an artifact?

And, if you delete it, have you destroyed it? After all, there is the master copy from which it was ...taken? borrowed? cloned?. Does deleting the image cause a problem?

Since it is virtual, does your intent count? That is also "virtual" in the electronic sense.

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
My mother was someone who balked at throwing away Bibles, even the freebie Gideon NTs. I kind of like the other LC's suggestion to use them as mulch or compost...paper makes excellent compost, especially during the summer when it's sometimes hard to find enough "browns" to balance out the "greens." I also know someone who makes beads out of strips of paper like glossy magazine pages or ad inserts -- she has a little machine that rolls them up -- that might make an interesting upcycle.

I've used Bible pages in mixed media art before, it did seem like a hurdle to tear up the first page though.
(I've made beads from vintage music sheets before, that machine sounds intriguing!)

Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :

I'm sure I have thrown some away when they have fallen apart completely (noting the old saying, "bibles that are falling apart are generally read by people who aren't") but can't say I have done so recently.

If anything, I might be inclined to "accidentally" leave it on a bus or train in the hope someone else might find it. These days, though, I tend to look carefully at the binding before buying, so I don't buy those that I think are likely to fall to bits.

Posted by Eirenist (# 13343) on :

My Vicar says we should burn or bury life-expired Bibles. I've had some success with putting them at the back of the church under a notice saying 'Free to a Good Home'. Some difficulty with a BFBS French version, though; solved by giving it to a Methodist Minister's daughter who's studying for a French exam. Let's hope the print doesn't ruin her sight.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Weird story about a Bible that happened to me. I was teaching the story of the Odyssey, and had an Exclusive Brethren child in my class who found fiction difficult. So, to link the tale to reality, I pointed out that the storm which takes the ships to the land of the Lotus Eaters follows the same course as the one which took St Paul to Malta. This required consulting a Bible, and I didn't have one to hand, so I sent to the teacher most likely to have one, and back it came.
To my surprise I found it had been presented to a young woman at the Congregational church where I became a member, on a similar occasion, and had her address in it, the same one where the family still lived. I asked the teacher concerned how she had ocme by it, expecting some interesting story about a gift from the young woman, only to find that she had been given it by the previous teacher in her classroom, who came from the other end of the country, and had no religious background at all.
I felt it ought to go back to the family, and offered to provide a replacement.
The teacher, who went to Pentecostalist churches, and was used to being prompted by the Holy Spirit, became very stiff, and said that it would not be a good idea at all, as if there were something she knew but could not tell me.
I got the message from her body language that this was not something I should pursue with her, so didn't.
Sometime later she became ill with a brain tumour, and was no longer at the school. I looked in her room - the Bible wasn't there. After surgery, she came back briefly - she had not been told that the remission was only temporary, thought her family knew, and we were all sworn to secrecy. (She was of a strong belief that cancer was of the devil and should have no power over believers, so I don't know what happened when she discovered the truth.) When she, the deputy Head, and I were together - she had had other opportunities for this, when I wasn't there - she took the Bible out of her bag and gave it to the deputy Head, explaining firmly that it belonged to the school and should be kept there. It had clearly become as important to her that I should not get my hands on it as it had become to me that I should.*
Some time later, a reasonable interval after she had died, I asked the by then promoted Head about it. She did not remember it, and as I knew she was mad keen on purging "unnecessary" stuff, I realised that it would have been disposed of. And probably not with care. Even though she was a practising Catholic. (Though it was KJV.) She was very fond of getting a skip (dumpster) in.
*By this time, I had another reason than simply returning it to the family. I intended to go via the minister, in case there was a family history difficulty I didn't know about, and it had occurred to me that the occasion could be used for me to ask for access to deacons' meeting minutes to find out why my mother had been ostracised, and seek an apology which might stop her having nightmares about it. I do feel that if God had wanted me not to do this, He could have come direct and/or given reasons.

Posted by SusanDoris (# 12618) on :

Very interesting question -- and sort of timely as far as I'm concerned actually, as I was doing a bit of turning out stuff recently. I particularly liked Stetson's posts! [Smile]

I was given a Bible by my grandmother ( who was also my godmother) when I was 13 - it was the black leather with an inward sort of flap , smallish size, typical of the time. It was hardly ever used - it had to be kept nicely, you know.

However, I'm all for clearing out as much as possible so that when I die, there will be very little for my sons to sort out. But convention or something, or a vestige of the way things were when I was given it have held me back from throwing it away! . I have absolutely no belief in any God etc, and have referred to it only very rarely with reference to books I was reading or something; so \i'll save them that small task by disposing of it and my prayer book, this week. Thank you!

Posted by Vade Mecum (# 17688) on :

quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
I also know someone who makes beads out of strips of paper like glossy magazine pages or ad inserts -- she has a little machine that rolls them up -- that might make an interesting upcycle.

And if the beads were then made into a rosary, now... [Axe murder]

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Just been reading a Tweet from someone saying that their dog ate their Bible. Would make good hamster bedding, too.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

What a brilliant dog.

"When Your word came, I ate it..." (Jeremiah 15:16)

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

I once wanted to let go of a bible and the difficult time that it recalled for me. My wife was a volunteer librarian at the local jail at the time, and it quickly found a new and appreciative home. Jails are good homes for bibles, where they get a lot of use. (I use my own NRSV and my father's KJV).

But try getting rid of massive old pulpit bibles, thoughtfully donated to the church... Strange things can happen during the hours of darkness, causing such books to vanish.

Related to this is our congregation's stated policy on donations, that acknowledges that gifts can outlive their usefulness and may be disposed of in a suitable way.

Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Jails are good homes for bibles, where they get a lot of use.

As rolling papers, AIUI.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

The NKJV that I got when I was baptized, that is always the first book I pack when I move, that sits at the "head" of my bookshelves? Forget it. At worst, it gets turned into an art object that looks like a Bible—is book taxidermy a thing? That particular object is a part of me and who I am—and, even without the fact that I can sometimes be a bit totemic, keeping objects around that remind me of things, ideas, places, and people that are vitally important to me, I'd probably still have an Over My Dead Body reaction to someone trying to dispose of that particular Bible, no matter how battered.

An average, underlined, paperback Bible? Recycle if it's not worthless onionskin or other strange paper. For them, the point really is just the text and ideas within, while the object is simply the medium used to bind it in space and time.

A Bible used in public display, or that was someone else's personal Bible? I'd say respect the ideas and importance that object symbolized, and give it a respectful burning or burial, as one would a flag. It may be "just another book" when viewed under one aspect, it may be a book filled with good and worthy ideas of importance to human civilization when viewed under another, but it is also a book with great symbolic significance to many people and groups. While I might want to burn my copy of Phenomenology of Spirit at times, it's not getting a respectful sendoff, no matter how influential or important Hegel's ideas are; a Bible is somehow different, especially ones with personal or public importance. In a way, showing respect to a worn out Bible is a way of showing respect for the people who held that Bible dear, for whom it was a symbol of hope and the holy, just as respecting a flag, even a worn one, is an act of respect for the country it represents, and (perhaps) by extension, for the people who live there.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:

quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Jails are good homes for bibles, where they get a lot of use.
As rolling papers, AIUI.

Both of these are true. The little blue Gideon New Testaments are especially favoured for the latter.

But if you want to remind yourself of how highly valued the scriptures can be, and the difference they can make, go to a prison. I had two requests for Bibles yesterday, and I am sure that neither was going to be smoked. It's not unusual for me to give a New Testament to somebody who's never read it and be accosted by them a matter of days later telling me they've read it, and where is the rest please. Or inmates who get a Bible, start at Genesis 1 and have reached Samuel within a week, having made it all the way through Deuteronomy, Leviticus and the lot. I could go on.

But why insult prisoners by giving them old Bibles? Send them new ones!

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

It's a book, the content is the important bit, not the physical form.

Get rid of it like you would any other book.

M.

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
But why insult prisoners by giving them old Bibles? Send them new ones!

It is hard to understand how the gift of a bible can be seen as an insult. I have many second hand books that I cherish for their content, not their provenance.

[code]

[ 04. March 2014, 13:31: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
But why insult prisoners by giving them old Bibles? Send them new ones!
It is hard to understand how the gift of a bible can be seen as an insult. I have many second hand books that I cherish for their content, not their provenance.

I'm not against it in principle, but when I relate the anecdote below maybe you'll understand how this pushed my buttons.

I once wrote to some Bible Society or other (I forget which, luckily for them), which purported to give out free scripture portions, asking them if they had any in some rare language or other for an inmate.

They sent back some badly soiled gospel or testament or some such, with a letter along the lines of "since this is for a prison inmate they clearly deserve nothing more than substandard goods". I'm not kidding.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Used to work for a place that changed their policy to providing only new Christian materials for just that reason. Trouble is, that means either a reduction or the same (insufficient) amount of materials being supplied. Why not send both old AND new? Double the help!

(I say this as someone who's been on the receiving end many times)

Ouch, Eutychus. Were you tempted to write back, "So this is what you would have provided Christ during his time in the Praetorium?"

[ 04. March 2014, 13:33: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Jails are good homes for bibles, where they get a lot of use.

Unfortunately, many jails and prisons do not allow prisoners to receive books from individuals. They have to be sent directly from the publisher.

Moo

Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
But why insult prisoners by giving them old Bibles? Send them new ones!
It is hard to understand how the gift of a bible can be seen as an insult. I have many second hand books that I cherish for their content, not their provenance.
I'm not against it in principle, but when I relate the anecdote below maybe you'll understand how this pushed my buttons.

I once wrote to some Bible Society or other (I forget which, luckily for them), which purported to give out free scripture portions, asking them if they had any in some rare language or other for an inmate.

They sent back some badly soiled gospel or testament or some such, with a letter along the lines of "since this is for a prison inmate they clearly deserve nothing more than substandard goods". I'm not kidding.

I understand your position now, but not theirs - that was abominable.

It was useful to have a prison librarian who made sure that the inmates were treated decently and not subjected to that kind of abuse where she was involved.

Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on :

In Melanesia, most churches and all religious houses have a specially dedicated place to burn old bibles and prayer book, old purificators and other linens, old vestments and what not.

They are not just thrown away.

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