Thread: What would you like to see in a library? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
My city, Christchurch Aotearoa/New Zealand is planning a new central library to be completed in 2014. The previous one was damaged beyond repair in the earthquake on February 22nd 2011.
The City Council is seeking suggestions from library users of all ages as to what they would like the library to have. They want it to be a vibrant and exciting place that draws people who wouldn't usually use a library.

So far some of the suggestions from children have been;
a train to carry books around the library
an area for science experiments
a space for electronic games

Adult suggestions include;

Meeting rooms for book discussion, geneology, and local history groups,

More computers available for public use.

What I find interesting is that since the local branch building was also damaged so that it had to move into a shopping mall, the range of people using it has widened significantly. This is in the less affluent part of town.

My suggestion - More books, whatever the format

I'm not against the place being more vibrant, but I would like to see a quieter area as I find concentration difficult if there is a noisy background.

So if you were making suggestions for a library, what would you like to see? Anything you've seen work well anywhere else, and any off-the-wall suggestions welcome.

(This isn't homework - I don't work for the council, but I spend a lot of time in the library and take out in two/three weeks what the average user takes out per year).

Huia - library fanatic and proud of it.

[ 29. March 2014, 05:50: Message edited by: Huia ]
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
Our libraries have scrapped most of the books, retaining the minimum of shelves with the most popular/most likely to be used books. There is a large amount of empty space now that much of the shelving has been removed, and lots of self-service terminals. This isn't my idea of a library.

A library should be a treasure-house of ideas old and new, with floor-to-ceiling bookshelves crammed with books, some of them dusty and not having been looked at for maybe thirty years, some of them the most popular, newest books, and all shades in between. You should be able to wander in and have your imagination sparked off by browsing, and come away with a pile of things that you never had any idea that you might find interesting. You can't easily browse on an online catalogue where you have to search by keyword.

There should be quietness - the children's library should be a separate section by itself so they could have their nursery rhyme singalongs and so on without disturbing others.

Seating should range from deep armchairs that you could sink into, to sensible chairs at well-lit desks where you could write and make notes, to cushioned windowseats.

I think there could also be rooms for adult education classes on the floor above - some of the textbooks would be on site.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
On reading the thread title, my first idea was one that will be rather impopular with a lot of people for a couple of good reasons, but something that I specifically wanted when I was 11 or so, and may even want to this day:
A special shelf for "the classics".

I wanted to read exciting stories, good personality depictions, deep ideas et c. Sure, it was also about wanting to be the kind of person who read "quality literature", and there is much to be said for the detriments of a canon and how female and non-white writers are usually passed over, however, coming from a non-reading home but being immensely interested in reading, I had few ways to find what I wanted to read. I would usually go looking for names that I had heard somewhere, but couldn't tell why.

However, it was also difficult finding works on the right level. I think that would be helped by being able to choose from different works on a single shelf/department, instead of having to go with whichever few books I managed to find while looking through the library. So yeah, I'd put the indisputables on a special shelf, works that not all may like, but whose quality would hardly be disputed, things like Dostoevsky, Austen, Strindberg, Neruda et c. That would be the most important thing for me in a library, then and now, I think.
 

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Posted by Gussie (# 12271) on :
 
As a librarian, who's worked in a lot of different libraries, I think there are some great ideas there. My main bugbear is new libraries that try to be revelant by getting rid of the odd, old and 'difficult' stock that libraries used to have in favour of what is misguidedly though of as revelant material for the local cliental. Yes you need a variety of books to appeal to all, but those sort of books are the ones that can set people on a life-time love of learning when they accidently stumble on them. I remember a mathematician talking about who his career was decided when he found a book about Fermat's last theorum in his local children's library

I think libraries in shopping centres are a great idea, in fact libraries anywhere are a great idea. The UK seems intent on getting rid of them all at present - but that's a rant for another time.
 

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Posted by cattyish (# 7829) on :
 
In a nearby town the library and police station have both been incorporated into the Academy (senior) school. Children and adults use the library a lot. Writing groups can meet in the library, and the librarians even brought us tea!

Where I work the library is open certain days but always seems to be closed whenever I have a half day and well before I leave work. It is not as busy as the one in the school which is open all day all week.

Near here there is a torture chamber consisting of a National Trust property with a magnificent library of books and papers in various languages from all over the world. I can go in there before the monthly evening service in the summer and I am allowed to drink tea, eat a fine piece but I am Not allowed to touch the books!

So, a library with a variety of mainstream, classic and obscure things in various states of repair and dustiness would appeal to me. There should be comfortable seats, tables and wifi. A tea option would be fabulous, though I appreciate it would also be risky. Maybe a cafe?

Opening hours would be important. I guess that's something for local consideration.

Parking including access for people with mobility issues, and automatic or press-pad doors. Maybe a bike rail.

Online ordering and renewals.

Exhibition space, maybe in the aforementioned cafe.

A workshop library for crafters with equipment such as sewing machines which can be booked.

Lots of helpful staff.

Good lighting, warm but not stuffy environment.

Accessible loos.

Classes for aspiring writers, volunteering opportunities.

Good quality copying and printing facilities.

I think that'll do for starters!

Cattyish, dreaming.
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
If you bring libraries to the people, they will read.

--PeteC MLS (retd)

Libraries in shopping malls
Libraries in community centres (On the other end of the community centre which is my local branch is a public swimming pool and an ice-hockey arena.). Many other services, as well.
 

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Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
Many, many, many books, and opening hours that don't prevent people who work normal, office hours from using it (I can only use my local library if I have a day off, they used to have one evening per week when they stayed open until seven o'clock but stopped this a few years ago)
 

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Posted by rufiki (# 11165) on :
 
I'd like to see a library of things. Get people in for the power tools, and they might pick up a book too.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
In addition to books, I would like a library to be well-stocked with magazines and newspapers. These should be placed in an area with comfortable chairs to suit people of all sizes.

Moo
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
More books obviously.

Apart from that, the kids suggestions in the OP are more sensible than the adult's ones. They include things that most people can't access at home. The adult ones are things that people associate with libraries but in practice can get elsewhere.

So lets have a book train. And let the kids run it. And let's have engineering toys and construction kits so kids can make little steam engines and submarines and rockets and whatever. If some kid wants to spend Saturday afternoon tinkering with construction kits while their parents are elsewhere.

The place must be a safe, comfortable, and interesting building for children to be, when their parents are not with them. If you make it so they can only be there with parents they will get 20 minutes a month while parents are pacing p and down getting desperate to go shopping and crush their child's brains with boredom.

And more books, of course.

Lets have a fish tank with lobsters and sea snails and things with tentacles in it. And field identification books nearby.

Lets have a telescope or big pair of binoculars firmly mounted by the highest window - and have bird id books and popular astronomy books and magazines in the same room.

Lets have a great big section of books on food and cooking and plants - and some growing plants in the room.

Lets have no signage or rules whatsoever that imply that kids have to get to a certain age or get special permission to use the "adult" shelves. Or the other way round. Once you are in there you have the run of the place.


Lets have lots of old books. Don't throw them away. We want books that AREN'T in the shops or at home.

Have a book exchange. Tell them they need never throw a book away - just leave it on a great big table and anyone who wants it can pick it up (and yes the librarians will need to prune it a little when they suddenly get 731 copies of "pro-celebrity golf stats 1993).

Make sure the workings of the building show. Pipes, cables, little lifts. What the walls are made of. And have books about construction methods. Why not have a building regulations book, or a text book for apprentice plumbers? Why not leave them by the toilet door?

And all the great old novels of course. And all the great old poetry. And every kids book you can get your hands on. Uncensored.

Put up a sign saying "Enid Blyton was a cruel bitch who abused her own children and wrote sexist and racist crap. We librarians hate her and hate her books. But quite a lot of readers like them. Librarians also hate censorship. So here are her books so you can make up your own mind".

And there must be that book train!

And, of course, more books.
 

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Posted by Kitten (# 1179) on :
 
I love the idea of a book exchange Ken.

I think my already overburdened bookshelves might protest though
 

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Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 
Armchairs and sofas - comfy ones
 

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Posted by Galilit (# 16470) on :
 
A cafe.
With an extensive muffin and slice menu.
And a place to eat your own food with trees to look at and some water flowing or at least bubbling.
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Books is the obvious answer. Librarians is the next resource that comes to mind: people who are helpful in locating resources, welcoming, help to set a tone. I'd also suggest a variety of seating options. Some people want/need a traditional desk to do research on. But many people would prefer comfortable chairs to lounge in. Some people want a quiet corner on their own, some want to be surrounded by a community of readers. There could be some small rooms available for collaborative work or impromptu meetings.
 

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Posted by Gracious rebel (# 3523) on :
 
Comfortable chairs are great, but if they are TOO comfortable people may fall asleep and then be hard to 'remove' at the end of the day when you need to close the library.

And yes it has happened to me, I work in libraries!

Many of the suggestions so far on this thread are ones that I have already seen implemented in some form or other in various libraries.

The only problem with keeping lots of old books (Ken) is the space issue - people will also expect the library to stock plenty of copies of the latest bestsellers, and a wide selection of other new books, and if you think about it, for every new book the library stocks, it needs to get rid of an old one to make space. So yes we have to constantly withdraw the older tattier non issuing books simply to create enough space on the shelves for the stock. Most of these withdrawn books we sell to raise more funds for the library. Last copies of particularly interesting titles are kept in the 'County Reserve' stock, available for people to request, but not on a public shelf to browse.

For Huia, I would definitely say that the new Christchurch library definitely needs new books, lots of them, more than anything else. I visited the present library when I was staying there with my son last year, and borrowed a few books on his card (as my kindle had broken on the flight when I dropped it) and I was certainly struck by the fact that books in that condition in libraries back home, would have been withdrawn for sale before they got that old and tatty looking.

I'm sure that being opposite the bus station has encouraged people in there though. It was a great location. I don't know where they are planning to build the new library Huia?
 

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Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :
 
Books; books; books; books and more books. That's what a library is for.

A post office is for sending letters and parcels, not selling insurance policies. The place to get muffins is a cafe. A railway station is a place to catch a train. The core business of a library is books. Whizzo managers are always trying to divert their organisations into something else, the 'if only' syndrome.

Any organisation that doesn't put its core business first, doesn't deserve to survive. If you don't need the core business of a library any more, don't have one - though I think that would be admitting that civilisation has had its day.

[ 29. March 2014, 14:49: Message edited by: Enoch ]
 

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Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
Free photocopier.
 

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Problem with libraries is that they are designed by, and for, people who love books. This is a dwindling group.

What should a new library have?
Events. Not simply dreary societies droning on about their precious fetish; but plays, dynamic speakers, interactive events.
Inspiring architecture. Fanciful children's section, light and spacious in the rest.
Interactive displays. Books are not the primary source of entertainment. Fighting this is pointless, so assimilate it.
Take inspiration from museums. Museums are becoming more engaging, no longer simply displays in cases. Libraries can no longer merely be books on shelves.

And don't shove the children into soundproof rooms, put the fussy adults there.

ETA: Want new generation to love reading? Give them a reason.

[ 29. March 2014, 16:01: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
 

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Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
What would I like to see in a library? Lots and lots of people.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
It sounds like there are two things going on here. A shopping center library should shoot for popular. Best sellers, children's books, seating, wifi, meeting rooms.
A central library should have things that are necessary, but not every day. The county history archives, for instance, or biographies of George Eliot.
But the best and most lovely thing a library can have is an online catalog and online reserves. Then you can hop onto their web site, see if that biography of George Eliot is there, and reserve it for pickup later.
 

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Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :
 
A garden with places to sit and read.
How about a quiet place where people can doze? Reading can make people sleepy.
 

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Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :
 
Lots of good suggestions here, which I'll read through again.
What does my library need, that it doesn't have?
Enough staff for a start. Valued, respected, well paid staff.
Toilets that are vandal proof.
An easily accessible store for less used books.
Study carrels that can be booked for those who need quiet.
A separate staffed cafe so customers don't bring smelly burgers in.
An efficient and reliable library management system.
Porters or security staff on hand at all times.
Most importantly senior managers who understand and value the importance of libraries and literacy.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
For those of you who know Christchurch the new library will be in Cathedral Square, possibly running through to Gloucester St. The Coucil have declared that it will be one of the 12 "anchor projects of the rebuild." By locating it in the Square (alongside the Convention Cenre) they are hoping to draw more people into the area, which was originally designed as the Centre of Christchurch, but had become in many ways a dead area, apart from the tourists visiting the now ruined Cathedral.

GR, the temporary library which you visited is now a building site. I too was struck by the tattiness of the books and was told many were taken from the stocks, as some newer books were still in the old Central library which was inaccessible when the temporary libraries were established. The northern half of the Central libary got the more up to date books as it benefitted from the stock from branches that were closed for repairs.

I like the ideas that are coming up here.

Huia
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
What do I want in a Library? A great many books, quiet space and comfortable chairs and tables to read them with good lighting. A good online system so you can check out e-books, place holds, use references and browse the web. Wi-Fi and terminals so those who don't have these amenities can use them at the library. Perhaps an auditorium or two so that people can hear lectures and see movies in an audience. Stacks you can browse and librarians who can help with the library and telling you about books you might want to read and the facilities to maintain a decent catalog and links to other libraries.

Alas, this is a minority view. There's a popular view that books are a waste of time and the library could be put to much better uses.; providing day care and playgrounds. A place for the homeless to sleep, for job seekers to congregate and for shoppers to meet for tea and snacks.

If you want a cautionary horror story, read Nicholson Baker's account of the new San Francisco Public Library. A beautiful architectural masterpiece with only one problem; it had very little space. So they had to throw a significant part of the collection into landfill, because the laws didn't allow them to be sold and there just wasn't space in the brave new world for many of those old books. The shelves are very pretty though.

Seattle has an interesting new library. It's architecturally interesting although the words cheap and cheerful come to mind. The interesting point the architects made was that most libraries start with rooms designed for the parts of the collection and gradually as the collection grows the shelving takes over hallways and subjects get divided across multiple rooms. Their solution was to build a single major stacks collection in the form of a multi story helix that's only half full. As the collection grows, it simply expands in the helix, and while you might go to a different floor to go directly to a subject, everything will remain stacked in order. This assumes that you're buying more books and don't want to throw out the old ones.

They have also put most of the librarians at desks in the various rooms with users and books so they can be approached for information. I haven't had feedback about how well this works for librarians.

There's also an automated book sorting room where all returned books are sorted and placed on carts in order to be shelved automatically or in crates to go to branch libraries or hold shelves. This greatly reduces the manual labor and time to get the books reshelved. You could probably build your train into that.

It still has many areas which are large and noisy because of the urge for high vaulted spaces. That might have been useful back before electricity and ventilation, but it's annoying now because it amplifies noise. At the very least, put in acoustically muffling ceilings.
 

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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 
All of this makes me want to hug my books and my local libraries

Great suggestions already, but I would add a good selection of graphic novels. They can be a great way to get teenagers into heavy philosophical subjects, and there are many serious ones aimed at adults too (eg Maus, Persepolis etc). Basingstoke central library inside the shopping centre has a very good selection (and is a great example of an accessible, centrally-located and popular public library).
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
I realize the Ship is a hangout for bibliophiles and those who think a world without printed books would soon go to ruin (and, given the licensing agreements put on ebook lending, that might be true), but I'm not a fan of libraries keeping old, unused books—especially the sorts of "general collections" found in public libraries—simply for the sake of keeping books. My undergrad university's special collections reading room was lined with the personal libraries of old dead people and the popular fiction of their day—books that nobody today would even think of reading. Why, other than perhaps for cultural studies reasons, would someone read the popular page-turners of 100 years ago? Okay, fine, you get the occasional Charles Dickens who has both literary merit and popular acclaim, but far more Dan Brown and David Baldacci, folks who advertise their latest novels on the subway; should the library keep space on their shelves for time and all eternity for them? Does the Christchurch library really need the copy of Brodo, Brodo, and Scharnoff's seminal Lichens of North America that will be checked out three times in its lifetime? The university library might; the public library, probably not. The simple fact of the matter is that books take up a lot of space, and they spend most of their life taking up space, rather than being used. Even when they are being used, they often don't leave the library; much of the time, people can look up what they need in the library, keeping the book within its confines.

So what are the things you would need at a library, considered as a library? Books, yes, but also access to online research databases; EBSCO and JSTOR are insanely expensive for individuals, but, when used frequently, become reasonable(ish) for libraries. Libraries are also community and cultural centers; job seekers and tax filers rely on libraries. There's also the fact that many central libraries double as the closest thing to homeless shelters in city centers, which is a topic unto itself.

The other thing to consider is that the central library of a city usually serves as its civic memory—it's where people looking for information on history, genealogy, and civic issues come to look for information. Its special collections are as important as, say, its cookbooks; the latter can be found at any branch library, but the central library is the one that holds and curates the community's records and history. So, for instance, here in DC, if I'm looking for pretentious indie graphic novels, I can go to the central library, or about three branches (all in the rich/gentrifying parts of town, incidentally, but, again, a different discussion topic); if I'm looking information on the '68 riots or how the trolly line that's been redeveloped into a bike path affected growth of the inner suburbs, I go to one specific collection at the central library. For that matter, anyone else who's interested in those topics, no matter where they're from, has to come to that one room in that one library.

So, in a way, a giant collection of lots of old and dusty books may not be the most important function of a central library, nor the one we ought to be defending out of a sense of "but I love books!" nostalgia. Rather, the library's role as a central gathering space, as what is often the only space open to all in crowded and expensive parts of town, and repositories of our communal memory might need to take prescience.
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
It would be easy to draw a line. Everything that is available at Project Gutenberg, let us say, does not need to be in paper format at a library. You want to read WIVES AND DAUGHTERS by Elizabeth Gaskell, you can download it in about a minute.
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
A friend of mine is a writer. In exchange for a kindness she had done for me I wanted to give a present. She was reading Theodore Dreiser's trilogy "The Genius, The Titan and The Stoic" but the Seattle Public Library had only the first two and no longer had a copy of the third. So I ordered a used copy online. She was fairly irate that it was a nice copy stamped "Discarded from the Seattle Public Library".

I've been spoiled by having good access to a number of first class libraries in my life. I've also used a number of smaller Libraries in smaller cities. It's a sad feeling when you realize that on a specific topic you may have a better collection of books than the library of a large city. That's after people like me have given them extra money over the years to buy books since the city doesn't see that as an important priority. The right kind of old books matter, not just the ones that are donated in people's estates.
While Project Gutenberg is very useful, many 20th century books fall into a zone of not public domain and published before contracts included e-books. So they aren't going to be available legally on line. There's a big gap between Trollope and Dan Brown and the books and periodicals are useful even today.
 

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Posted by Porridge (# 15405) on :
 
Armchairs and good reading lights.
 

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Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 
Books. And then more books.

Easily accessible, popular, attractive books on display.

A functional computer system, to allow you to easily search that catalogue, and to see what books you have borrowed; and then a huge stack of important books. If your library has six copies of some trivial "self-help" nonsense, but doesn't have, for example, Boethius in translation, it's doing it wrong.
 

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Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It would be easy to draw a line. Everything that is available at Project Gutenberg, let us say, does not need to be in paper format at a library. You want to read WIVES AND DAUGHTERS by Elizabeth Gaskell, you can download it in about a minute.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston:
Why, other than perhaps for cultural studies reasons, would someone read the popular page-turners of 100 years ago?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It would be easy to draw a line. Everything that is available at Project Gutenberg, let us say, does not need to be in paper format at a library. You want to read WIVES AND DAUGHTERS by Elizabeth Gaskell, you can download it in about a minute.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
... If you want a cautionary horror story, read Nicholson Baker's account of the new San Francisco Public Library. A beautiful architectural masterpiece with only one problem; it had very little space. So they had to throw a significant part of the collection into landfill, because the laws didn't allow them to be sold and there just wasn't space in the brave new world for many of those old books. The shelves are very pretty though. ...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston
... EBSCO and JSTOR are insanely expensive for individuals, but, when used frequently, become reasonable(ish) for libraries. ...

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Originally posted by Tree Bee:
Most importantly senior managers who understand and value the importance of libraries and literacy.

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Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
... If you want a cautionary horror story, read Nicholson Baker's account of the new San Francisco Public Library. A beautiful architectural masterpiece with only one problem; it had very little space. So they had to throw a significant part of the collection into landfill, because the laws didn't allow them to be sold and there just wasn't space in the brave new world for many of those old books. The shelves are very pretty though. ...

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That is a horrible story. It makes one wonder if the essential quality to work in the San Francisco Public Library is to loathe books, really to hate them and those that read them with every fibre of one's being.

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Lets have lots of old books. Don't throw them away. We want books that AREN'T in the shops or at home.

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Originally posted by Jane R:
And how are these people ever to become bestselling authors if their books aren't available in libraries for people to read?

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Originally posted by Jane R:
I can't be the only person in the world who uses the library as a 'try before you buy' service. When I do find an author I like, I buy all the books by them that are in print - so libraries are good for book sales.

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Precisely! I'm the other person in the world who does that (Or I used to in the days when our library had a large selection of books.) A large part of my collection is of things I've tried from the library, loved and decided I have to buy a copy of for myself.

You can only get so far with an online catalogue. You can't really judge a book by its title: I need to see it before I know whether it's something I want to take out, not pay a reservation fee, wait two weeks and then find I don't like it.

The reservation fee does annoy me - as most of the books now have to be ordered rather than being freely available on the shelves, it does essentially mean the library isn't really "free" any more. I wouldn't mind if we had a larger selection on the shelves, but it's sort of "we have one book by Dickens, you want more? You pay."
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Around here, any future strategy that depends on used book stores is not a good idea. Except for a very few they're vanishing faster than bookstores.

Not only are books the easiest thing to cut, they are rarely a glamorous thing to fund. We do have increased book purchase in Seattle, but only because the people who wanted to build the new library and renovate the branch libraries were embarrassed when it was pointed out that a decade of "temporary" book budget cuts had left little to put in those new buildings.

I would agree that they should do fewer multiple copies of best sellers and more mid list books. However it's fair to point out that there is a lot of demand for the latest best sellers and newest genre fiction. In general, it comes down to funding which is usually a lower priority than other civic budget items. Still, given the tight budget, it's irritating to watch libraries earnestly solicit ideas for things to spend their money on other than books.

[ 31. March 2014, 21:45: Message edited by: Palimpsest ]
 

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Posted by Potoroo (# 13466) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
Lets have a fish tank with lobsters and sea snails and things with tentacles in it.

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The Rockhampton Public Library in Queensland, Australia was a magic place for me as a child - it had a large tropical greenery area inside, with ferns and other plants, with little pools and fountains, plus little turtles enjoying it all! (Not to mention a great children's section.)

I took a trip up to Queensland as an adult and revisited this library as it held such good memories for me. The green area was in the process of being removed, as it "caused damp" to the books and equipment. I understand this, but I'm also glad that I got to experience it as a child. That library was really a safe, golden, magic place to be.

Ariel, I sympathise with you re your reservation fee. It used to cost $2 (!!) to reserve a book here, and I just couldn't do it. Then they removed the fee, thank goodness, and now I do it all the time. I hope they will abolish your fee, too.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I read one of the suggestions regarding the new library today. No access to computers for children as they only play games on them

Our library system buys extra best sellers but charges $5.10 a week for them. I suggested a discount if I brought them back in 2 days, but they weren't interested. Another fact I found was that if you have a book past it's due date the first week is free, then a fine kicks in which goes toward buying more books. This has tended to lessen my guilt a bit the few times I've been late.

Our libraries also have a huge sale every year, mainly of books that are falling apart and the duplicate of the bestsellers when they are past their prime. I once found a needlework book I had wanted for ages in such a sale, now I tend to avoid them because they are so popular.

Huia
 

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Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :
 
Here they avoid having children playing games by always having computers that are too slow to be interesting.

In my impoverished student days I used to get old volumes of Books in Print for a 5 cents a volume. They were much cheaper than cinderblocks for my block and board shelves and the buckram binding blend nicely with the books.

On of my prized library sales acquisitions was a bound volume of a 19th century magazine about Telegraphy. It has many interesting articles. It cost a quarter.

[ 01. April 2014, 04:47: Message edited by: Palimpsest ]
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Given the budget, I would like a room in the cellar with a proper sound system that could be used for small musical performances and maybe let out for private parties to raise money to counteract the costs of building it.

As regards books, I think The Riverside Shakespeare would be a good thing to have: it was my textbook in a course on the bard taught by a surly professor from India who did not like my essays! I still treasure it. There should also be a good section on the War in the Pacific, the theatre my father fought in during the Last War.

Beyond that, there should be a large friendly staff who were knowledgeable and a board room which could be used for community meetings.
 

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Posted by bib (# 13074) on :
 
I dislike visiting my city's library these days as there seem to be very few books available to borrow and there is so much noise and busyness with kids running around and people talking loudly. There seem to be every activity except that to do with books. Mostly I now go and buy cheap books second hand, generally from charity shops and donate books back to them. But I do miss my beloved library of past years.
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
One of my favourite places in this world is the Cotsen Children's Library, in Princeton University Library. It somehow captures the magic of books, feels really cosy and safe, and is filled with little corners and things to discover. There's a tour of it here - though be warned, the camera work is rather shaky. You might find some ideas here.
 

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Posted by Pancho (# 13533) on :
 
If I had my way and money were no object some of my suggestions would be for a central library:

A building that looks like a library, like in a classical style (a temple of knowledge) or a Gothic, castle-like style ( a Hogwarts for books!). There would be a courtyard in front with shade trees, a fountain, and places to sit and a space for a snacks and coffee cart. A yearly book festival could take place here.

There would be a spacious lobby with community bulletin boards and announcements, drinking fountains and restrooms and display cases to exhibit local artists. One side would lead to multipurpose rooms for classes and workshops and community meetings. The largest would serve as an auditorium for films and recitals as well as book signings. The other side would open to rest of the library.

The main circulation and reference desks, and the children's and multimedia wing would be visible from the lobby entrance. The children's wing would be roomy with pillows, an area for story-telling and it's own circulation and reference desk. There would be a separate room for craft projects and science experiments and near the entrance in view of the children's librarian would be large foreign-language section (because adults learning a foreign language often use children's books).

The rest of the library would be filled floor to ceiling with books, books, and more books; dark wooden shelves and fixtures and plush leather chairs arranged around huge fireplaces lit for warmth in the evenings. Cats would roam at will among the book stacks and snuggle with patrons. Lots of desks with proper lighting for studying and places all over to charge laptops and cell phones. Free Wi-fi of course. A very large and extensive periodicals section with an assigned information desk. A very large and extensive multimedia section with cds, dvds, audiobooks (though these might have their own section) and the like also with its own info and circulation desk. A large selection of large-print books and books in braille.

Lots of computer catalogs to do library searches and lots of computers for word processing and searching the internet. The staff would be pleasant and well-trained and every month would offer a class to the pubic on how to use the public library. All books and material would be accessible through inter-library loan (with no fee!) and an area near the library with best sellers and staff recommendations. The library would remain open late in the evening and on weekends.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
What ken said, plus a bar. Heaven is basically a library with a bar (Hell is a gym).
 

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Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :
 
No, hell is a gym with Line Dancing and Country & Western playing.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Pancho:
There would be a separate room for craft projects and science experiments and near the entrance in view of the children's librarian would be large foreign-language section (because adults learning a foreign language often use children's books).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:
Pancho, I love everything about your vision of the library.....

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quote:

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.....(except the cats).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pancho:
For patrons averse to the presence of cats there would be a special reading room (complete with humongous fireplace and comfy armchairs) filled with fluffy bunny rabbits and affectionate but slobbery basset hounds.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pancho:
There would be clear, visible and easy-to-understand maps to help guide patrons around the library. The layout of the shelves and different subjects would make sense so, for example, literary anthologies would be shelved with the general fiction and not at another end of the building with books on carpentry.

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It ought to be possible to get at least briefly lost in a library. And to come across books you did not expect.

And there must certainly be books - and ideally rooms - that even the librarians don't know are there.


There should be something of MR James and JL Borges about the place. As well as Mr Decimal Dewey.

[ 03. April 2014, 13:24: Message edited by: ken ]
 

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Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
I thought of Pancho's ideal library when I saw this BBC news story... Free Cat With Every Sofa!
 

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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jane R:
For patrons seriously allergic to cats, by the time they have run the gauntlet to find the books they want and get to the 'safe room' they will be wheezing uncontrollably and possibly on the verge of collapse (and anyone seriously allergic to cat hair is likely to be allergic to dog hair as well, so putting Basset hounds in that room leaves them with nowhere to go).

And have you ever met a cat? Making one room in the library off-limits to them will instantly make that room the place they most want to be... the library staff will spend half their time evicting cats from the cat exclusion zone and the rest of it trying to stop them eating the fish from the tank in the children's library.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
People allergic to cats are allergic to an enzyme in their saliva, not to their fur

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:
Is there something you'd like to tell us?

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It's to start up and use if someone disturbs me/the peace with a mobile, rustling papers, coughing etc .... I can't read with any extraneous noise
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
There should certainly be quiet places in an ideal library. There ought also to be rather less quiet places. And there should be rooms that are hard to find containing no books less than three hundred years old. And rooms slightly easier to find containing some books much, much, older than that, a few available to read, others chained up, others under lock and key. And there should be rooms with large numbers of exceedingly beautiful PhD students hard-a-literature-search.
 

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Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
Then you'll not be heartened Ken by the news that my erstwhile university employer announced they were re-branding the library as a 'just-in-time information delivery system'.


Yes, they did mean binning all the stock.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

 

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Posted by Stephen (# 40) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:


You can only get so far with an online catalogue. You can't really judge a book by its title: I need to see it before I know whether it's something I want to take out, not pay a reservation fee, wait two weeks and then find I don't like it.

The reservation fee does annoy me - as most of the books now have to be ordered rather than being freely available on the shelves, it does essentially mean the library isn't really "free" any more. I wouldn't mind if we had a larger selection on the shelves, but it's sort of "we have one book by Dickens, you want more? You pay." [/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
Then you'll not be heartened Ken by the news that my erstwhile university employer announced they were re-branding the library as a 'just-in-time information delivery system'. ...

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That's W1A territory. I agree with Ken.

 

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Posted by OddJob (# 17591) on :
 
A bland, characterless warehouse. From which the readers are barred. And only 5 degrees Celcius in winter. That’s the formula my employers are adopting for a new, state of the art library which we’re building. But this should actually make books more accessible, especially our vast collection of obscure, niche tomes. The books may be stored in the warehouse, but its low build and energy costs and automation mean we can store a much larger and wider range of books than a traditional library. And the 5 degrees cold, besides cutting heating costs, is actually better for keeping paper than the 20 or so degrees our bodies may crave.

The automation can retrieve anything at a few minutes’ notice and bring it the welcoming ‘front of house’ - probably as quickly as you’d find it in a traditional library after finding an available librarian - again automation keeps staffing costs down and enables us to spend the money on books instead. Frequently-used publications will still be accessible near the front desk.

The building will also contain classrooms to explain to a younger, book-deprived generation the wealth of information and inspiration available in print.

Social facilities will also exist in the building, which I regard as an architectural landmark (the front of house part that is, not the book warehouse).

I’m looking forward to seeing it in operation.
My pipe/Tamnavulin/McEwans 80 Shilling dream is to have time to spend in any library. Or even reading a broadsheet rag each day. But it ranks below reviving piano playing.
 

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
People allergic to cats are allergic to an enzyme in their saliva, not to their fur

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That depends. I usually come out in a rash if a cat rubs up against my legs, but am not otherwise allergic to them. [/URL]

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quote:

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Originally posted by OddJob:

The automation can retrieve anything at a few minutes’ notice and bring it the welcoming ‘front of house’ -

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But browsing is the manner in which many find books they'd otherwise not. This is why online book sellers are horrible.

ETA: No smoking in the building whatsoever, sorry Pancho. Violators will be burned atop the books they ruin.

[ 04. April 2014, 22:55: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
 

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Posted by Pulsator Organorum Ineptus (# 2515) on :
 
In my local library, having the books shelved in shelfmark order would be a great improvement.

It's absolutely hopeless going in to get a specific book. On one occasion I had the entire staff of six scouring the library and its back rooms for a book of poetry by Ted Hughes. According to the online catalogue, there were three copies in the building.

There isn't much point in having a catalogue if it's impossible to locate the books.
 

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Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :
 
The new £188 million Library of Birmingham needs more books. But before it splashes out on new books it needs to get some special ladders (AKA 'the correct equipment') to reach the ones it's already got.


 

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Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 
What you are describing is found in the Amsterdam Bibliotheek. Spent a lovely day there last summer...
 

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Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 
I'm feeling very lucky reading this thread. Our central library fulfils rather a lot of the ideas people are suggesting. Sadly, there isn't a train, which I would love.

The things I really like about the library:

• lots of space around the books
• lots of books arranged in lovely curving shelves
• an excellent children's area at one end of the main floor
• an equally excellent young adult section which has its own computers, study areas and power points
• free wifi
• several quiet rooms you can book, one with a piano
• regular talks on all sorts of things - at the moment the talks are on legal issues for those caring for the elderly
• lots of sitting places, even lying down places (there is a couch arrangement running right round the edge of the main floor)
• a fantastic local history section which takes up more than half of the top floor
• a handily placed cafe on the mezzanine, which is open to the library but not actually in the library

quote:

---

Originally posted by OddJob:
A bland, characterless warehouse. From which the readers are barred. And only 5 degrees Celcius in winter. That’s the formula my employers are adopting for a new, state of the art library which we’re building. But this should actually make books more accessible, especially our vast collection of obscure, niche tomes. The books may be stored in the warehouse, but its low build and energy costs and automation mean we can store a much larger and wider range of books than a traditional library. And the 5 degrees cold, besides cutting heating costs, is actually better for keeping paper than the 20 or so degrees our bodies may crave.

The automation can retrieve anything at a few minutes’ notice and bring it the welcoming ‘front of house’ - probably as quickly as you’d find it in a traditional library after finding an available librarian - again automation keeps staffing costs down and enables us to spend the money on books instead. Frequently-used publications will still be accessible near the front desk.

The building will also contain classrooms to explain to a younger, book-deprived generation the wealth of information and inspiration available in print.

Social facilities will also exist in the building, which I regard as an architectural landmark (the front of house part that is, not the book warehouse).

I’m looking forward to seeing it in operation.
My pipe/Tamnavulin/McEwans 80 Shilling dream is to have time to spend in any library. Or even reading a broadsheet rag each day. But it ranks below reviving piano playing.

---

Typical of the sort of library that would appeal to an architect rather than the person who reads books. If you can only get a book by asking for it, and have no access to the shelves to browse, there is no prospect of ever finding anything that you don't already know that you want. To my mind, however many architectural prizes it wins, that fails as a library. It gets another
 

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Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
I agree, that library would not be much use to me.

For me, libraries are for mooching, for discovering, for my eye catching the cover of a book nothing to do with why i am in there, libraries are for delight and holding books.

Which means that in all probability i am a dinasaur.
 

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Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:

quote:

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Then you'll not be heartened Ken by the news that my erstwhile university employer announced they were re-branding the library as a 'just-in-time information delivery system'. ...

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That's W1A territory. I agree with Ken.

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quote:

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As the physical collections reduce, library space will be repurposed [sic] to provide a wide range of technology
enabled high quality learning, research and collaboration spaces.

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pancho:
There would be clear, visible and easy-to-understand maps to help guide patrons around the library. The layout of the shelves and different subjects would make sense so, for example, literary anthologies would be shelved with the general fiction and not at another end of the building with books on carpentry.

---

It ought to be possible to get at least briefly lost in a library. And to come across books you did not expect.

And there must certainly be books - and ideally rooms - that even the librarians don't know are there.


There should be something of MR James and JL Borges about the place. As well as Mr Decimal Dewey.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:
When I visited the new Birmingham Central Library the first thing I saw was a science area just inside the front doors where you could build your own robot. I then took the wrong turning and found myself passing by a bar on the way to the theatre; outside is a sort of amphitheatre where they plan to hold concerts and performances in better weather. The library also has three roof gardens, one with veg so that people can bring their children to see what vegetables look like when growing, one with a space for outdoor performances, and all three give a great view over Birmingham. You can see for miles - right to distant hills.

I was very impressed by their new library altogether.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sighthound:
It's almost as if, somewhere along the way, librarians have come to the conclusion that books are deeply uncool, and that a whole shift of business is needed.

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quote:

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This is even more true now both second hand and new books are cheaper. I can literally buy a paperback at the shop up the road for 50p.

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quote:

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It's almost as if, somewhere along the way, librarians have come to the conclusion that books are deeply uncool, and that a whole shift of business is needed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jane R:
nowadays that means enticing people through the door with shiny new computers and a nice cheap café and all the latest magazines and DVDs and only allowing them to catch sight of the dreaded Books when they have been softened up, on the frog-in-boiling-water principle.

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I hear this a lot. Is there any evidence that it works?

Is the idea to familiarize people with the library so it isn't scary, or is anyone under the impression that people are likely to pop in for a cup of tea, and decide on the spur of the moment to give this reading lark a go?
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I know my branch, which is temporarily housed in a shopping mall has after school activities, some unrelated to reading that are aimed at teens. Staff just casually leave books such as graphic novels or those with high interest to the age group lying around and it does seem to be having an impact on books taken out by this group.

Librarians are a sneaky bunch

Huia
 

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Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Leorning Cniht, on frogs in boiling water:

quote:

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I hear this a lot. Is there any evidence that it works?

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quote:

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
nowadays that means enticing people through the door with shiny new computers and a nice cheap café and all the latest magazines and DVDs and only allowing them to catch sight of the dreaded Books when they have been softened up, on the frog-in-boiling-water principle.
I hear this a lot. Is there any evidence that it works?

Is the idea to familiarize people with the library so it isn't scary, or is anyone under the impression that people are likely to pop in for a cup of tea, and decide on the spur of the moment to give this reading lark a go?

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quote:

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While we struggle for adequate funding, all sectors of the community value libraries highly, and are vocal in opposition to reduction of services.

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