Ship of Fools: Damn you all, con artists!

Thread: Damn you all, con artists! Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

Today I got a phone call at home. "Hi I'm xxx. We had a chat after the Easter service, if you remember?" (Nope. It was Easter. I met a lot of people.)

Then I got a sob story, which - summarised - amounted to: "My wife was killed in a hit and run accident last year and I'm bringing up two children by myself. I've been taking a cookery course and have just come back from a placement which only the top people on the course get to go on and then I was offered a really amazing job in the other side of Canada. I've just driven with my kids across Canada but the removal company demanded $300 more than I had budgeted for. As a result, I don't have enough money to pay the deposit on the house I am renting. I need money now or the removal guys will just dump my stuff and go and we won't have anywhere to live as the landlord is showing people around the house tonight. I will pay you back in August, honest."

I explained that I couldn't just send money from the discretionary fund at the church and that equally I couldn't send money from my own account. I agreed to talk to the landlord's wife on the phone, to see if anything could be done.

I phoned the number given to me and got no reply. Seconds later, the phone rang again. It was the landlord's wife (who didn't appear to have noticed that I had just tried to call her). We talked for a bit. She told me how sympathetic she was to xxxx's situation and that she had checked out his job and it seemed very good and that he would be earning lots and so would be in a position to pay me back in a couple of months.

I said - again - that I couldn't send money.

She ended the call.

I waited - as I had agreed with xxxx that he would phone me back 15 minutes after we had called, to find out what was happening.

Surprise, surprise - I waited for 45 minutes and no call came. (As I write this - some two hours later - there still hasn't been a call. Not that I am expecting one.)

I hate myself for getting sucked into this scam attempt and wasting time when deep down I knew it just didn't add up. (Why was he calling me when we had only met - supposedly - once, very briefly? Was it really likely that he would be offered an amazing contract (guaranteed for 7 years) to work for an oil company? Was it really likely that the landlord's wife would go to such lengths to check him out and vouch for him, but would be so determined not to let him have the house without the money?)

And I hate myself for being a heartless bastard who is prepared to turn down someone in deep trouble and make two small children (without a mother) go homeless.

And I will probably hate myself for the next week......

To all con artists out there - I hate you, you bastards. Go burn in hell.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

Well, I'm glad you are only hating yourself for wasting your time and not your money. A ring of fucking assholes duped my father out of $500 by pretending that his granddaughter (they got some young woman to hoarsely sniffle into the phone in roughly my niece's voice) had gotten into trouble in another country and needed money for a lawyer. (He couldn't reach her cellular- and she does travel. Unfortunately, she has a tendency not to answer her phone during her busy times.) Luckily his natural cynicism overrode his natural concern for his granddaughter, and when they tried to milk some more out of him, he balked. She turned out to be safe in California.

So as a matter of fact, you can cheat an honest and kindly man (or woman) out of money they mean for a good purpose.

Assholes! [Mad]

Assholes!

Assholes!

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Oh, my parents were drawn into that one. The sobbing granddaughter in a foreign city, desperately in need of $5000 by wire transfer. My parents fell for it hook line and sinker, and were saved only because the Western Union storefront had closed for the day. So they consulted my sister, a banker who has no flies on her, and my sister sensibly contacted the granddaughter herself. Who was in class at her school in entirely the ordinary way and had not been traveling at all.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I curse them for the way they have entirely colonised the telephone system. The few genuine calls to the home landline are swamped by these fuckmuppets telling you they're calling from Microsoft, or have just sent you £500, or are here to help you with insurance claim, or congratulate you on your lucky win - you don't even know who I am, but you have all this money for me?

Damn the whole begging, wheedling, lying, conniving tribe of you.

Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :

There was one I read about yesterday targeting christians specifically.

It's alsmost as though they think christians are more gullible than the rest of the general population... [Biased]

Posted by ecumaniac (# 376) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
There was one I read about yesterday targeting christians specifically.

It's alsmost as though they think christians are more gullible than the rest of the general population...

Yeah, I had one of those while I was flat hunting. First sign of a scam was that the flat was way below market value in the area. Second sign was in the emails the guy was answering questions I hadn't asked, and not answering questions I had asked.

The email finally came asking for the money via western union, and I replied with this link from Gumtree.co.uk outlining common scams.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

These days I rarely bother to answer the landline. 4 times out of 5 it's a spammer wanting offering a last chance to fix my credit card balance or a fake survey that assumes I'm a fool who believes Fox News. What's worse is I'm getting calls that if picked up just disconnect. I'm wondering if someone is casing the joint to find a time when I'm not home to rob it.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

Caller ID, answering machines, and Call Blocking are God's gifts.

If Caller ID displays a number I don't recognize or "Caller Unknown", I let the machine answer. Most calls of this type hang up before my answering message finishes playing. If I get repeat calls of this type from the same numbers, I add them to my Call Blocking list.

I think I have more numbers in Call Blocking than I do in my address book!

If the caller begins to record a message and I recognize who is calling, I pick up.

It is, however, becoming increasingly difficult to separate out legitimate calls from cleverly worded scam calls.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
What's worse is I'm getting calls that if picked up just disconnect. I'm wondering if someone is casing the joint to find a time when I'm not home to rob it.

This is an irritating nuisance, but it's probably harmless. One of my daughters had a summer job making cold calls for polling purposes.

The dialing was done automatically, and if she was busy talking to someone on another line, the automatic dialer hung up when someone answered.

Moo

Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on :

I have the same problem with the landline - I would give up on it altogether, but the broadband is bundled with it, so that's not an option...

I fantasise about having an answerphone message that says something like: 'You have reached name and name's answerphone. We may very well be at home, but we don't answer the phone anymore, because we're so sick of being asked if we would like a free house valuation, or to sign up to pay tv, or a quote for new guttering, that we just stopped bothering. We figure if you're someone we actually want to hear from, you'll have our cellphone numbers - so text or call us on them. If you're feeling optimistic, by all means leave a message, then we can contact you on the squillion-to-one chance that we're actually going to want to do that...'

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

I am sorry to report that an unsolicited phone call to my land line is taken by me as an invitation to improv theater.
If it is a robo-call, a taped sales or political pitch, I will lay the receiver gently down on the counter, so that they can pitch it to the formica. You waste my time, I waste yours.
If it is a human being and I am in a hurry, it is very effective to simply ask in a flat businesslike tone, "Do you want to have sex?" Any response can be met with, "What are you wearing?" The call always ends briskly and they do not call back.
It is always effective to scream, loudly, "This is a house of mourning!" Again they do go away, but I try not to do this when family members are asleep.
I did once persuade a vitamin salesman to talk to me for twenty minutes, never agreeing to buy a vitamin. But my greatest success was when a political party called to inform me that the dread Obamacare was going to give poor people health care and something must be done. I exclaimed, "Oh, what a grand idea! I am so thrilled you suggest it, and I will tell everyone in my circle that it ought to be the law of the land!" The goal being to send them away weeping.

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

quote:
Originally posted by anoesis:
I have the same problem with the landline - I would give up on it altogether, but the broadband is bundled with it, so that's not an option...

We had this for years. We solved it by not attaching a phone to the wall.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

You know what's kind of sweet, though? All these grandfathers who, in spite of seeing their granddaughters so rarely they don't know what country they're in, are ready and willing to send them a substantial amount of money at the first sound of tears. [Axe murder]

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

A slightly different approach is called for in different countries, but here in the UK an answering machine with CLI (caller i.d.) and opting into the Telephone Preference Service does the business. No scammer has ever wanted to leave a message on the answering machine, and no incoming calls where caller number has been withheld ever get answered personally.

There is a particular breed of con artist which deserves to be specially damned. They prey on old people and try to get them to "invest" in worthless or mostly non-existent assets such as fine wines, carbon credits, coloured diamonds etc. That somebody can rest easy after conning some poor old soul out of their life savings they were keeping for their retirement beggars belief.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
A slightly different approach is called for in different countries, but here in the UK an answering machine with CLI (caller i.d.) and opting into the Telephone Preference Service does the business.

Doesn't stop you getting calls from overseas and recorded messages on the answering machine. They can't stop those - only UK-based ones.

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

Most of the scammers are actually overseas but they never bother leaving any messages. You are right about the pre-recorded ones, but they have tailed off to zero now. The last one was last year.

Scammers buy "sucker lists" on the dark web - the general idea is to keep off them (and hopefully get onto any "complete waste of time" lists that may exist). We used to get vastly more unwanted calls, but since adopting this strategy for several years the problem has nearly vanished. You've got to be pretty disciplined in not answering the phone though.

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

Have now taken steps to reduce the chances of getting hassled again. I've gone online to my phone company and changed my settings, so that I will no longer get calls from people who have withheld their number. The only calls I get like that are scams and their ilk.

I also have a Cunning Plan (suggested by a friend) on what to do if another call does get through. [Devil]

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Have now taken steps to reduce the chances of getting hassled again. I've gone online to my phone company and changed my settings, so that I will no longer get calls from people who have withheld their number. The only calls I get like that are scams and their ilk.

I wish I could do that, but one family member calls from a withheld number (which is not the same as ex-directory, and I have no idea why they have it). Mind you, yesterday BT also called me three time from a withheld number (twice I didn't answer, then they emailed and so I answered the third one), and the idea of messing with them using their own system definitely appeals.

We have found that never answering a call from a spammer does reduce the number you get eventually - apparently you may get crossed off the list if you don't answer, but not if you answer and then hang up.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

We have a family competition to see how long we can tie up a spam call; hence we quite like getting them, just to up our chances of getting a winner.

The least effort is to say that as their call sounds so important you are going to fetch a paper and pen and just leave the phone off the hook. That's effortless, but not a winning strategy; when we check the phone 20 mins later they've always given up.

My son and I did a tag-team thing with "Microsoft" once and kept them on the phone for over half a hour.

My favourite, though not a winning strategy as they hang up PDQ, are the PPI ones, where they tell you you are entitled to a refund of PPI on your credit card / mortgage whatever. I say that I don't have a credit card / mortgage, and that if they have evidence I do, that I must have been the victim of identity theft. I thank them effusively for bringing this to my attention. I then ask for their full details as I'll need them to report the identity theft to the police. Then they hang up.

Posted by Liopleurodon (# 4836) on :

I try to be firm but polite with legit telesales people who are selling a real product rather than trying to defraud anyone. They're not going to sell me anything but I don't want to make them miserable. It's annoying that they call, but it's an incredibly shit job that people only tend to take when they have no other options and need to eat. Ditto charity collectors. I might take issue with the organisations that use these very aggressive marketing strategies, but the person on the other end of the phone? Almost certainly having a worse day than me.

It goes without saying that I don't apply this rationale with con artists btw. Do whatever you like to annoy those guys.

Incidentally, for the very few people who are really good at the job, it can pay very well. My best friend who has a magnificent talent for being able to sell anything to anyone took a telesales job out of the aforementioned desperation, and got a very good income from commissions. Like people who make money from pyramid schemes, though, she's the exception.

[ 03. July 2014, 09:53: Message edited by: Liopleurodon ]

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

I'm not nasty to tele-sales people, just to people who have phoned me up and are clearly lying to me (i.e. they have information about my mortgage / credit card and know that I'm entitled to a PPI refund, or the infamous Microsoft scammers).

Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :

I try to think of the human at the other end of the phone. How did they come to have such a job? Some people do it just to pay the bills while they look elsewhere. The only scumbags are those who ended up in a call centre because they couldn't hack it as a recruitment consultant or estate agent.

The question that usually flummoxes them is, "Can you remind me, when did I give you my number?"

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

My happiest day was when I got a call from a political campaign, the same one my son was working for. I was able to hand him the phone and say, "It's for you!" He recognized the caller immediately and they had a nice chat about how the campaign was going.

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

Kurt Danziger described in his book Interpersonal Communication about how he responded to a call. Which at the time was along the lines of accusing the person of being communist, discussing security clearance and taking complete control of the conversation.

An updated version would be to answer "have you been cleared by NSA? How do I know you're not fronting for a terrorist organization? What is the reference code your security clearance?"

Danziger indicated that you seldom need the 3rd question for bad guys and that your friends will think you amusing.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

A good primal scream is also effective. Hold the receiver quite close to your mouth.

I am mildly, faintly, sorry for the miserable wretches who have to do this work. However, I am far more sorry for myself, with my time wasted by these things.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Well today at Costco, among the bales of loo roll and pallets of tinned tomato, we bought a new phone which promises the facility to block withheld numbers.

Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :

We tend to ignore withheld calls. The only trouble with systems that don't even let them through to ring is that hospital, dr surgeries etc tend to have withheld numbers, so if they need to call about appointments, test results or to reply to your message, it means they can't.

My dad was complaining his dr hadn't called him back, when he called them again he was told they had tried but his phone wouldn't accept the call.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

I almost never answer the phone. I have an answering machine, and the first few words of a message are enough to tell me whether to delete it without hearing the end.

Moo

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Have now taken steps to reduce the chances of getting hassled again. I've gone online to my phone company and changed my settings, so that I will no longer get calls from people who have withheld their number. The only calls I get like that are scams and their ilk.

I also have a Cunning Plan (suggested by a friend) on what to do if another call does get through.

Overseas scams, in your case. Canada has the National Do-Not-Call list, which shut down most legitimate telemarketing. I haven't received an unsolicited genuine marketing call in years now.

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

Thankfully the "free trip to the Bahamas" recording has stopped.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
I try to think of the human at the other end of the phone. How did they come to have such a job? Some people do it just to pay the bills while they look elsewhere. The only scumbags are those who ended up in a call centre because they couldn't hack it as a recruitment consultant or estate agent.

No, the scumbags are the ones who are deliberately trying to defraud you, knowing full well that what they are doing is illegal.

You're right, I should try to think of the human at the other end of the phone. I should picture them in a prison uniform, and then describe it to them.

[ 03. July 2014, 23:57: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :

The best phone scam story was when a boiler room stock scam phoned the home of the chair of the New Brunswick Securities Commission. Of course he picked up, and played along.

Then he busted them. [Devil]

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

I think there’s a difference between a scam or a marketing call.

A person who is knowingly, actively trying to defraud you is not the same as some poor bugger working a sucky call centre cold-calling job because they couldn’t find anything else and they needed to pay the rent. The former are fair game for all the tactics above, ISTM, but not the latter. A polite “no thanks” is enough for them. It’s not their fault. It’s kinder to put the phone down quickly, because it lets them get onto the next call, with someone who might actually want what they’re selling.

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

There is an area of hazy ground in the middle where a company pretends they are conducting market research but really intends to sell you something. They do this so that they can phone people who are registered with the Telephone Preference Service, which puzzles me - surely they can see that people registered with the TPS are not likely to respond well to such calls? [Confused]

Of course it does mean that they can use the phone book rather than paying for the edited version they should be using, or use an algorithm for generating numbers without checking them. [Roll Eyes]

I suppose I've just answered my own question.

Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :

Yep, I'm ashamed to say I got duped by a charming stranger from England who told me this sob story about having missed his flight and he didn't have enough money to get home to his adorable baby boy (he even showed me a picture of said adorable baby boy--it was fake, I found out later) and the British consulate in Seattle couldn't help him out and he was stranded and he really needed to get back home to his adorable baby boy...what a sucker I was! Luckily, I only gave him $60, some other lovely but equally gullible folks in Seattle gave him much more. This dude had given me a phony address and telephone number and when I called it, a poor bewildered old English gentleman explained that his name, address, and telephone number were being used fraudulently. This old man had been getting calls from all across the United States for several weeks...

Anyway, boy, did I feel stupid and used. Bastard! I hope karma got the little swindler. I hope he got robbed of every cent.

Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A good primal scream is also effective. Hold the receiver quite close to your mouth.

I am mildly, faintly, sorry for the miserable wretches who have to do this work. However, I am far more sorry for myself, with my time wasted by these things.

Invest in an air horn. Hahahaha...can you imagine? An air horn!! Evil but effective!

Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :

Apologies about including my sad tale of being scammed. It didn't take place over the telephone but at the now-defunct Borders bookstore in downtown Seattle in 1997 or thereabouts.

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

Sorry to hear that, The5thMary. Con artists can be amazingly plausible.

Too late for you now, but it may be worth people knowing how financial rescue abroad actually works so you can be sure these lowlife can be disbelieved. (The procedure below is for UK citizens, but I imagine all countries have a similar scheme, which may vary in exact detail).

1. Indigent tourist visits consulate.

2. Consulate phones relative or friend explaining problem.

3. Relative/friend withdraws cash and goes to nearest police station with details of person/consulate involved.

4. Police station phones consulate to confirm arrival of money.

5. Consulate releases money to stranded person (less a small fee).

I once had to bail out my mother who got stuck in Prague without any Czech money. They were very helpful.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

BT6500 handset now installed, and configured to block Number Withheld and International calls - but one got through this afternoon.

Anyone with experience of this phone (which the box says is widely popular)? Does it need a few moments to identify the call? Or is there some other setting we've missed?

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

Firenze - do you have "caller display" activated? If you are with BT, most combined packages come with this, but if you are on one that doesn't or a different provider you may need to ask them to activate it.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

We would need to speak to our provider - Virgin - for that. Does call blocking not work without it? It doesn't mention that in the manual.

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

No, it won't work without that I'm afraid.

The number calling (or caller withheld equivalent) is sent as a data stream right at the very start of the call. It's how your handset knows what to do with the incoming call.

(We have handsets that display the incoming caller number and display it so we can manually decide whether to answer or screen the call by waiting for the answering system to kick in after x rings - which is how we do it. You have basically bought a system that does that for you.)

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
... I will no longer get calls from people who have withheld their number ...

That might not work if you have anyone abroad whose calls you do want to take. My dad has BT's "1571" answering service, and if he misses a call from me (in Canada) it comes up as a "withheld number", which it isn't.

Then again, he's 89 and easily confused, so there could be another explanation.

Posted by Drifting Star (# 12799) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
That might not work if you have anyone abroad whose calls you do want to take. My dad has BT's "1571" answering service, and if he misses a call from me (in Canada) it comes up as a "withheld number", which it isn't.

Then again, he's 89 and easily confused, so there could be another explanation.

Probably not. We've had calls from Canada come up as 'International' or 'Withheld'. I'm sure there's some logic in there somewhere (it's an automated system, there must be some) but I certainly can't figure it out.

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:

quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
... I will no longer get calls from people who have withheld their number ...
That might not work if you have anyone abroad whose calls you do want to take. My dad has BT's "1571" answering service, and if he misses a call from me (in Canada) it comes up as a "withheld number", which it isn't.

Then again, he's 89 and easily confused, so there could be another explanation.

But if someone I know IS trying to call me from abroad, I am pretty sure that they will let me know (by other means) if they get blocked!

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

The story (in the UK) is that calls from abroad have been coming through with the originating number stripped out (although they are still tagged as International rather than UK number withheld calls). The explanation has been that there was no international agreement between telecoms providers on how to deal with genuinely withheld numbers (which may actually be an action required for non-nefarious purposes, or so it is said).

However, for some months now all international calls have been coming through with their numbers. Or rather a number. Presumably these people are fairly adept at faking that sort of thing. So either BT has changed its tune, or an agreement has been struck.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Caller ID now arranged (and in fairness to Virgin, very promptly too). Will now be watching to see if the level of nuisance calls - currently at about 20 a week - drops off.

Posted by Deputy Verger (# 15876) on :

I use Gwai's solution for the land line. Paying £11 a month for it is part of the BT broadband package, but I simply didn't bother plugging a handset and into the wall (until my broadband kept dropping, and I had to call the helpline in Calcutta on a number that was not free from the mobile).

But now I get spam or scam calls on my mobile almost daily, so I don't answer "Unknown number" on the mobile either. And that means I do miss calls that have come through switchboards, and that means I have to listen to voice mail, which is NOT free as part of my Vodafone package.

So I am with you in consigning all these bastidges to hell. [Devil]

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I am sorry to report that an unsolicited phone call to my land line is taken by me as an invitation to improv theater.

If it is a human being and I am in a hurry, it is very effective to simply ask in a flat businesslike tone, "Do you want to have sex?" Any response can be met with, "What are you wearing?" The call always ends briskly and they do not call back.

I suppose some of us do still receive unsolicited calls which are perfectly reasonable? Still, tempted to give your suggestions a try the next time some unknown-to-me cleric 'phones to ask if I can offer holiday cover....

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

A friend of ours in England has a good reply for unsolicited phone calls:

I'm afraid His Lordship is unavailable at the moment. This is Jenkins, the butler - may I take a message?

[Snigger]

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

If we're off scams and onto unsolicited calls, it's once again time for me to post a link to this, which looks much more fun (although I've never managed to have it to hand at the right time).

Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :

For people in the UK, Virgin does TV and internet packages with no need for a landline - we used this in our student house.

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
For people in the UK, Virgin does TV and internet packages with no need for a landline - we used this in our student house.

Virgin doesn't go all the way then?

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