Thread: Can you type? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by seekingsister (# 17707) on :
 
I've noticed in my years living in the UK that the vast majority of my British (and some European) colleagues cannot touch-type. We had typing classes in school in the US, and outside of that computer programs like "Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing" were very popular in the 1990s.

This might be a pond difference, or a generational difference (although even a 21 year old graduate I worked with told me he'd never been taught typing).

So - can you touch type, or do you look down at the keyboard and punch at it with your index fingers? And if you can't touch type, would you want to learn?
 

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Posted by Lucia (# 15201) on :
 
Touch typing was not taught at my school or university in the UK when I was doing them during the 1980s. However during the 90s I spent some of my lunchtimes at work using "Mavis Beacon" and so taught myself basic touch typing. I do tend to look at the keyboard but I can type without doing so and it taught me to use all the fingers to cover the different keys. And it is certainly a lot faster to type that way than to use just two fingers!

[ 23. May 2014, 12:07: Message edited by: Lucia ]
 

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Posted by Gareth (# 2494) on :
 
It's not taught in schools (or at least wasn't when I retired from teaching two years ago.)

I learned by using an electronic typewriter 25 years ago, and continuing to use computers as much as possible since then. When I took my MA ten years ago, I was unique in the classes I attended for being the only one who took lecture notes on a laptop - by then I could type at least twice as fast as I could write.

I've watched my 16-year-old daughter type and, apart from her strange habit of hitting capslock before and after letters to get capitals, she's pretty good - and she doesn't look at the keyboard either. No-one ever taught her to type.
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
One of my mother's jobs (before I was around) was as a typing teacher, so it was a very clear standard in our household that we would type properly! We had a computer program to practice with. My memory is we did have practice in primary school as well, but probably nothing afterwards, and that it wasn't particularly intense.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I can't touch type, but it was Mrs Sioni's trade. She learned copy and audio typing and could type at about 65 wpm. Still pretty quick even on a tablet or surface.

I type at the same speed I think at, which is a whole lot slower.
 

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Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on :
 
We had mandatory typing classes in grades 7-9 and I continued with typing in grade 11. Today, it is called keyboarding class. Students begin learning how to type properly in the elementary grades and learn how to format a variety of the projects that we did in typing class such as formal letters, invoices, reports and memos. In addition, they practice with PowerPoint, email and other computer related applications.

I am thankful that they don't know the agony of having to spend eight hours typing up an error free five page paper with footnotes!
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
In my day typing was one of those things - like Domestic Science - that was seen as a female skill. I'm pretty sure I have an RSA Stage III certificate in it somewhere.

The irony is that now I mostly use the iPad and am therefore back to pecking out text (like this) with one finger on a virtual keyboard.
 

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Posted by Lord Jestocost (# 12909) on :
 
An extracurricular touch typing course at school meant I could do it 30wpm for a while, which was handy for earning money on the student paper. Since the advent of the word processor, and hence infinite capacity for rewriting with zero pressure for first time accuracy, I have since deteriorated into merely a very fast two-finger typist, though I still use my thumb on the spacebar (and little finger for carriage return).
 

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Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :
 
When I was at school, typing was definitely a girls thing, and I was at a boys school (sort of). So we didn't have it as part of the normal curriculum. I think by the time I left (and there were girls in the school) typing classes were available, but no-one - not even the computer geeks I was with - considered that boys should take them, because if we needed typing done, we would always have a secretary to do it for us.

I do not touch type, and I do tend to look at the keyboard as I type. However, I not a "pecker", and I do use all my fingers. Just not properly. I doubt I could lose my bad habits and gain proper ones at my age. In truth, I type as quick as I need to for what I have to do. If I were to type quicker, my thought processes over what I should be typing would get left behind.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
I learnt to touch-type as a graduate student, through Mavis Beacon - it was heavily encouraged by our IT technician.

I knew I'd cracked it when I was able to hold a conversation, read a report and type it the text simultaneously.
 

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Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :
 
I generally look at the keyboard, but I use more than just my index fingers and I'm pretty quick in general. Not professional typist quick, but plenty quick enough for any jobs I'm ever likely to need to do, and certainly faster than many of my colleagues.
 

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Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on :
 
I was sent to Business School one summer to satisfy my mother, a retired stenographer, so that I could presumably have skills to get a job. Typing and Shorthand. It was like the Spanish Inquisition. The grumpy teacher did all but smack you with a ruler for peeping at the keyboard, or making errors.
There was also a typewriter with blank keys, to test you.
Gregg shorthand was pure torture. I never did get anything like "skill".

The typewriters were mechanical. You had to really strike the keys with gusto. And Oh, the agony of correcting 3 carbon copies! Ask a kid today what carbon paper is, or even what a typewriter is. LOL

I push my keyboard all over my computer table, so when I slide it close to use it I often put my fingers in the wrong 'home' position. I do sort of touch type, but visually check in often.
And -oh the joy of simply backing up to erase whatever you want to get rid of.

 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
It wasn't tasught in grammar schools, as far as I can tell. In my technical school, it wasn't taught to the technical stream, but was to the commercial stream. They sat in the old chapel of the converted private school (connected with Charles Kingsley at its founding), typing to music to get a steady rhythm. I don't know about secondary modern schools.

I think the idea was that if one were headed for the more intellectually taxing careers, it would do us no good to have qualifications which would send us into the typing pool. There was a status thing involved. No-one could foresee the end of the pool and the spread of the keyboard to the directors' suites.

My father, who could touch type (don't know how he learned) thought we should learn and gave me a book of exercises, and I got as far as asdfg/lkjh. He was ashamed of the way I type, as he thought that if one was to do something, one should do it properly.

I sort of know my way around, and can type as fast as I need to. Sometimes I look, sometimes I don't. When I do, I sort of get the next few strokes at once as a shape, rather than one letter at a time. (I've only just worked out that this is what I am doing.)

*typo left at start as it is relevant. Typo here removed as I spotted it in passing. No other edits necessary. Except that comma that got in after passing.

[ 23. May 2014, 13:48: Message edited by: Penny S ]
 

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Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Firenze:
In my day typing was one of those things - like Domestic Science - that was seen as a female skill. I'm pretty sure I have an RSA Stage III certificate in it somewhere.

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At my girls' school, secretarial skills were only available for the less academically inclined. I think it was assumed that those of us expected to go to university would employ secretaries ourselves.

As it is, I am a lousy typist and there a bunch of typos that I regularly make but I get by and it does not seem worth the investment in time to learn to type properly.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I was taught in middle school, though I was the slowest in the class. Now I'm ca 90 words a minute due to a career in writing and publishing!
 

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :
 
Like the wind.
 

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Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :
 
I was taught to touch type but now tend to use all but my little fingers, mainly the index and middle ones. I partly look at the keys but don't need to. I'm quite quick but not marvellously accurate (yep that probably means my method isn't the best but old habits die hard) so spend more time correcting the mistakes.

We have some easy clean keyboards at work, where it's essentially rubber covered but with no definition between the keys like this
I have huge difficulty using them, especially without looking, absolute gobbledygook comes out on the screen.
 

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Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :
 
Yes, it was "the" elective to take in high school, for both boys and girls, especially college-bound. I learned to touch type and am pretty good at it -- seldom need to look at the keyboard.
 

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Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :
 
I was given the basis of touch-typing in hospital as a teenager. Not policy but circumstance: we had very heavy snow and only two teachers made it through the snow so one (a primary specialist) did the little children, the other was a touch-typist meant for one patient but she ended up teaching four of us!

After I came out and while I convalesced I continued at home and, while I may not use all the 'correct' fingers, I still manage a better than respectable speed - but then I am a keyboard player!

I was very surprised to discover that typing skills weren't on the radar when my children were at school so I unearthed an old portable typewriter and got them going through the tried-and-tested method of bribery - it worked.
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
I did typing at age 14 to avoid woodwork. One of only three boys in a class mainly of girls.

I used to cheat by looking at the keyboard until the teacher covered all the keys - then I lagged behind.

I type with two fingers but have become quick at it.
 

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Posted by Macrina (# 8807) on :
 
I (29 year old Brit) was never taught to type but I'm pretty quick and I can touch type until you point out I can, whereupon I can't.
 

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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 
25yo Brit, was never taught to touch type formally but can do so thanks to instant messaging programmes and spending hours on the internet from the early 00s onwards
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I can type 5 or 700 words in an hour when I am working on one of my unpublished (thus far) novels. I took a typing course at age 12 but have only become adept in the last 3 years.
 

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Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :
 
As a girl in school during the 70s, I was taught touch typing in high school. It was a very handy skills for decades-- I put myself & my first husband through college & graduate school as a faculty secretary (love that tuition remission!). I thought I had job security, knowing that whatever else happened career-wise I could always get a job as a secretary anytime anywhere. Of course, that all changed with the word processor. Not that I'm complaining-- when I did my final doctoral degree, the difference between being a student with even a cheap computer w/ word processing and one with access to even the best typewriter (IBM selectric, of course) was so significant to practically bring me to tears.

I haven't taken a typing test in probably 3 decades so don't know my exact time, but would say I'm still very fast & quite accurate, and never look at my keyboard. (The 10 key adding machine speed, otoh, has completely deteriorated). The generational differences appear more marked when it comes to texting-- there I'm strictly an index finger typist, very inaccurate (hate that autocorrect!) and slow.
 

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Posted by bib (# 13074) on :
 
When I was at school, typing was only offered to those students taking the commercial stream and not to those doing the academic subjects. hence I never learnt to type other than with the two finger version I'm using at this moment. It seems strange that I can play quite complex works on the piano but have never succeeded in learning to type despite my best efforts. My own children seem very competent at typing despite not having formal lessons - I'm starting to think such skills are now present from birth!!!
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
A previous law firm I worked at organised training in touch typing for the whole secretarial staff (this was in Paris, so French AZERTY keyboard). I average out about 60 words a minute – faster in English than in French because there are no accents to deal with. I was taught that the main aim is accuracy. If you focus on that in the first instance, you will end up typing quickly in any case because you spend so much less time going back to correct mistakes. I don’t look at the keys (I actually make more mistakes when I do. Looking at your fingers also supposedly makes you lose time because you don’t notice the mistakes so soon.)

I think it’s a pretty useful skill to have, and makes typing not only faster, but also much more comfortable. Actually the trainer we had insisted that what we were primarily learning was ergonomy. Using the right fingers is only one part of typing in a way that allows you to work faster and with less discomfort. The placement of your screen and keyboard (and the document you are typing from, if there is one) along with your general posture, also have an effect on your typing speed and accuracy. (For example, I would be typing this faster and with less mistakes if I wasn’t sitting with my legs crossed right now .) This comes in handy when typing long documents because you can keep going and going and not get a cramp.

Because I touch-type (I need to feel the bumpy guide keys in the middle), I loathe typing on a tablet or similar.
 

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Posted by Hugal (# 2734) on :
 
There were typing lessons at my school in the 80's but it was for those who thought they would want to do secretarial work. Later in life I did a course with Pitman Training but it was really for those who type as part their work, I didn't and don't. Not long after I joined John Lewis I did a computer based course in my lunch time call Kewala's Amazing Typing Adventure. You learn to type whilst follow a Koala round around Australia and into the coral reef. He rides on the back of several different creatures and you learn something of Australian culture as you go. I don't type enough now to be very fast and accurate but do well enough.
 

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Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :
 
It was alleged to be the easiest elective in grade 9. Not for me it wasn't. Manual type writers, teacher with a knuckle-rapping ruler. I barely squeaked by.

In university, I handwrote essays and papers until graduate school, which was about the time they stopped accepting non-typed papers. I wrote my MA thesis and PhD dissertation in notebooks, one side with the facing page for revisions, then took them to a typist who used an upgraded IBM Selectric, which allowed 2 lines to be typed and viewed on a wee screen before committing the words to paper. I still have the hand written versions of the theses.

I type with my left index finger and right index and 2nd finger, with right thumb for the space bar. I can do this without really looking though I detect my peripheral vision views the keys. I am absolute terrible on a phone keyboard. I dictate just about everything I write longer than a short paragraph at the office ("dictated, not read").
 

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Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :
 
I learnt to type with more than two fingers using lansyst Ltd's Iankey Two Finger to Touch Typing Conversion Course in the mid-80s on my then new Amstrad PCW 8512! I wasn't taught at school in the 70s.

i got up to a fairly respectable speed using most of my fingers, but never quite had the push to make it to full touch typing. I rarely did copy typing which is what it is most useful for, and can type as fast as I can think when I am composing letters, reports etc.

I occasionally think I'd like to refresh what my fingers once knew, but have lost as I have changed keyboards many times and have changed the frequency with which I use them.
 

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Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :
 
I took typing classes in high school...when they had the old typewriters with the damn ribbons and the return carriage...ugh! However, I always cheated and looked at the keys when I could. It sort of defeated the purpose of learning to type. When I was much older I took a Microsoft Office certification class and we had to learn to touch type. Cheating wasn't even an option as the class size was very small and the instructor seemed to have eyes in the back of her head! Anyway, I'm not sure if it was the Mavis Beacon course or something similar but, by golly, I practiced at it and it stuck! I can touch type pretty well these days and it's really come in handy. I would recommend it to anyone. Now, when it comes to typing tests, I still do horribly. I guess I'm one of these people who suffers from test phobia.
 

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Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I was taught in middle school, though I was the slowest in the class. Now I'm ca 90 words a minute due to a career in writing and publishing!

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You people! One of my sisters types 90+ words a minute but she was a typesetter waaaaay back in the day and has been employed as a Graphic Designer/Desktop Publisher for ages after the typesetting gig. I think the highest typing speed I ever had was 55 w.p.m. I generally freeze during typing tests and start looking at the keys. Even sitting here thinking about taking a typing test has my stomach tying itself into knots! Wow.
 

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Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
I took the touch-typing course in high school, my only non-academic course (other than P.E.). I have never regretted it. On the miserable IBM Selectrix I, with its absurd ball that would render hyphens if you typed too fast for it. I was always getting "t-e" for "the" because I typed it too fast. I had to sandbag to keep from getting dinged for mistakes.

I made some good beer money during university and grad school typing other people's papers. This was, of course, in the days before everyone had their own word processor.

Last time I was tested, I tested at 90 wpm with no errors.
 

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Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :
 
I started trying to learn touch-typing on my mom's old manual typewriter when I was a kid (which wasn't easy with those keys and my little fingers!). In high school (I graduated in '89), I took a typing class, where we learned on electric typewriters that had a little screen on them and enough memory that you typed in a line and the typewriter would only type after you hit "return." (Remember those?)

Most people I know who can't type are men who are a bit older than me. It wouldn't have been considered a skill they needed at all when they were in school, although if they went to college, they might have had to hunt and peck or hire someone to type up their papers.

(In college I had an electric typewriter that didn't have that memory in it. I was never good at identifying when I was near the bottom of a page, so I bought erasable bond - remember that? - and when the paper fell out of the typewriter, I erased the last few lines and re-typed them on the next page. My senior year, everyone on my floor in the dorm protested the noise my typewriter made - it was rather loud - and forced me to acquaint myself with the computer lab in the building. That was my introduction to word processing...)
 

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Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :
 
I went to a grammar school in the 1970’s and we were not taught typing. I did ask for it but was told in no uncertain terms that if I wanted to do typing I should go to a secondary modern school!!

We were taught academic subjects and that was that, of course this was just before the advent of computers and before it was realised that one day we would all want to use keyboards..

So while I don't just use 2 fingers my accuracy is not good.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Originally posted by Penny S:

quote:

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I think the idea was that if one were headed for the more intellectually taxing careers, it would do us no good to have qualifications which would send us into the typing pool. There was a status thing involved. No-one could foresee the end of the pool and the spread of the keyboard to the directors' suites.

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I was advised against learning to type at school, because I was aiming for a professional career. A female solicitor told girls at my school that in professional offices, if a solicitor / chartered accountant etc could type, their secretary would be used to cover other secretarial illnesses etc, leaving the hapless typing professional to do it herself (it would be a "herself" - it was a given that male professionals would not be able to type.)

This advice was re-iterated by another female solicitor when I worked in a legal office during the Uni holidays.

Short term, it was good advice in 1980, but nowadays I wish I had learned. I type with my right index finger alone. I'm quite fast, though.
 

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Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :
 
I'm British and I learnt to touchtype in the sixth form (part of schooling between age 16 and 18). It was an optional course we could do, along with Pitman's shorthand. That was around 24 years ago. I didn't much like it, so only went to a few lessons and then quit, but I at least learnt roughly where the keys are by touch, so later when I went to uni and was typing up essays, I quickly learnt to increase my speed. Mostly I've taught myself. I can't touch type the numbers though - only the letters and punctuation. I guess because numbers were never a part of my essays, so I never had any need to learn them.

But yes, I notice quite a few people don't touchtype - when I express frustration that I can't type fast on a phone's tiny keyboard, because of pressing each key with one finger, lots of people don't get it - they tell me it's possible to type very fast on a phone. But it really isn't, compared with touchtyping on a laptop keyboard!
 

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Posted by Athrawes (# 9594) on :
 
I did a typing course at TAFE after finishing school. Manual typewriters, correct posture and emphasis on accuracy. I graduated with a speed of 80 wpm and 98% accuracy! but am much slower now. I have to use 2 fingers for the tablet, but still touch type, using the guide keys, at work. People are fascinated that I can type without looking, and know when I've made a mistake
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
I learnt to touchtype when I was 14. I was in physical rehabilitation at the time, and this was an offer of the Occupational Therapist.

Best thing I ever did. My teachers were grateful because they didn't have to decipher my handwriting.

I owned a little portable which I used until I was 25 and after that a proper Underwood 5. I then graduated to IBM when I was first working, and when I migrated to oomputer keyboards I maintained my typing. I still look down when I am checking function keys. Very interesting life skill.

Haven't a clue what my speed is. Around 40 wpm, but it goes to 50 or so when I copy.
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
I learnt to touchtype when I was 14. I was in physical rehabilitation at the time, and this was an offer of the Occupational Therapist.

Best thing I ever did. My teachers were grateful because they didn't have to decipher my handwriting.

I owned a little portable which I used until I was 25 and after that a proper Underwood 5. I then graduated to IBM when I was first working, and when I migrated to oomputer keyboards I maintained my typing. I still look down when I am checking function keys. Very interesting life skill.

Haven't a clue what my speed is. Around 40 wpm, but it goes to 50 or so when I copy.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rowen:
No typing taught in my Australian schools.
But I have learnt to be pretty quick with just a few fingers.
If I learnt the proper way now, I think I would get all confused.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Yes, it was "the" elective to take in high school, for both boys and girls, especially college-bound.

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My parents really encouraged me to take typing in high school. (I had the same typing teacher that they did!) College prep students could take it as an elective, and I'm glad I did. Business course students were required to take typing, of course, but they got the electric typewriters. We had the manuals.

My old Underwood could be used even during a power outage!
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I learnt to type the summer I broke my arm at university and was stuck at home not able to do anything much. A lovely lady in the next door village was a retired typing teacher and she taught on a manual typewriter and a lot about layout and design as well as typing.

I have since earned money using my typing skills, and find it incredibly useful. I've slowed down again because I rarely copy type now, mostly type my own words, but it saved so much time when I was producing service sheets regularly.

Another useful support thing was typing in essays for students to their dictation - we just talked through the topic and I typed what they were saying and my prompts, and this produced work that they could then edit or use as it was if they needed it. That's for write ups of projects or other coursework for students who were very academically weak. But the problem was that they saw me touch type and then were reluctant to type for themselves because they could see how much quicker I was.

And I agree about touch typing and phones. My phone is set up on number pad layout because I find the keyboard layout maddening because I can't touch type using it, and using it to input means I stop touch typing.
 

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Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Search and Destroy, I'm afraid.
 

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Posted by Dennis the Menace (# 11833) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Zappa:
Search and Destroy, I'm afraid.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Macrina:
I (29 year old Brit) was never taught to type but I'm pretty quick and I can touch type until you point out I can, whereupon I can't.

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Ditto (well apart from the youth !)

I have been using computers since I was 14 - so picked up as I went along. Still find tablet typing more difficult though.
 

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Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on :
 
Never formally learnt to type but been using computers since age 11 (I'm 47 now). So whilst I don't touch type I do use two hands and rarely look at the keyboard (though I do make healthy use of the delete key).

My first post-university job was a graduate trainee-ship and I got offered various training courses throughout the first year. One of these was typing and I decided that using computers learning to type "properly" would be handy. I duly turned up to the training centre on the day only to find that I was the only attendee on that particular occasion. The instructor and I had a brief conversation and in the end I was left to my own devices with a copy of some PC-based typing program (Mavis Beacon I think.) I mostly did the exercises and once I realised that my wpm and accuracy whilst not up to secretarial levels was pretty healthy already I didn't really try to re-train my fingers. I think that may have been a mistake.

Hate typing on tablets but not as much as on mobile phones. Chances are if you get an SMS from me it was sent via an app I use that allows me to type on my computer.
 

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Posted by BessHiggs (# 15176) on :
 
I took typing in the 8th grade. I can remember practicing using books in different languages so I could focus on where the various keys were rather than what the words were. When I was at my top form, I could well over 100 wpm with few if any errors. These days, I'm down to 85 to 90 wpm, depending on the way my hands feel that day...
 

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Posted by Gareth (# 2494) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Because I touch-type (I need to feel the bumpy guide keys in the middle), I loathe typing on a tablet or similar.

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When I am working on my tablet, I either use a bog-standard Bluetooth keyboard or I use voice dictation. Both are very effective - and what I really like is that I work on documents using voice dictation on an iPhone too.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Wierdly, this had never occurred to me. However, I've now tried singing to the iPad - the results might make the basis of a reasonably good circus game.
 

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Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :
 
When I signed up to do typing, I was one of the two boys in the class-- I suspected that it would be useful for university as they had then begun to require typed essays. When I did go to university in Ireland, I was one of the few who typed them, and most submitted handwritten texts--- keyboard-capable students would make a few scillingai on the side by typing thesis drafts.

Most of the girls in the 5-year stream (in Ontario at the time, this was the university or academic stream) refused to learn to type as otherwise they would be relegated to secretarial jobs and never advance in the workplace. My best speed was 65wpm on a bilingual keyboard on a manual typewriter-- our (deemed by the girls to be very creepy and in Cornwall, Ontario, that took doing) typing teacher told me that if were a girl, he would have promoted me to the electric typewriters, but it was clear that boys never needed to get the higher speed levels which would guarantee them a good office job.

I can manage the AZERTY keyboard but bow to my classmate Fran who later served as a nurse in the volunteer auxiliary to the Israeli Defence Forces and worked up good speeds on both Hebrew and Arabic keyboards.
 

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Posted by ecumaniac (# 376) on :
 
I taught myself how to touch-type one summer towards the end of primary school, using my dad's manual typewriter and a secretarial skills book. (Yes, I had NO FRIENDS at all in primary school )

My favourite thing to type on is my Das Keyboard which has all blank keys and really noisy/clicky mechanical switches. The only problem is if I'm doing coding I need a little cheat sheet above the numbers because I can't remember where all the symbols are.

My constant switching between US, Australian and UK keyboard setups doesn't help!
 

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Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on :
 
One of my work colleagues had a Das keyboard just to deliberately annoy people who used his PC. He also re-mapped several of the keys.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I opted out of learning to type and do shorthand because I knew if I did, I'd end up in some kind of secretarial job, and I didn't want to be a secretary. However, almost every job I've ever had has required me to spend a lot of time on a keyboard.

As a teenager I started off typing with two fingers but as speed wasn't great gradually started bringing more in until I could sort of touch type anyway (I can if I don't think about it). Mostly I do still look at the keyboard, but don't really care much for staring fixedly at the screen.

I know someone who types with two fingers and goes at a ferocious speed - and someone else who types with one finger. You wouldn't think it from the emails etc they produce, either.

I do think, though, that long-term it can't be good for anyone to spend much of the working day hammering a keyboard with 1-2 fingers and that typing courses ought to be more widely offered, especially by employers, than they are.

[ 24. May 2014, 19:33: Message edited by: Ariel ]
 

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Posted by ecumaniac (# 376) on :
 
There are some very good online tutors for touch typing. This one is pretty fun http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/typing/levels/level1.shtml
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I took typing as an optional course during one summer during high school. It was my mother's idea: she thought it would be useful for me to know how to type, but also advised me when looking for jobs not to tell them I could type, precisely so I wouldn't be pigeonholed into a secretary job. This was in the late 70s.

I'm glad I took the course. It gave me the foundations of touch-typing. My speed, and more important my ability to type for long stretches without looking at the keyboard, only really picked up after a few years of working full time on computers. I needed both things -- the foundations, and the long period of enforced practice.
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
it was required in the middle grades (all genders) when I was in school (late 80's) and I was horrible at it. really, really horrible. it might have been my first F. (alas, not my last)

However, in college and after I've ended up doing a lot of writing and so I touch-type and last I checked, about 80wpm at around 90% accuracy. my mother despairs because I only use three fingers on each hand.

my children were not even offered it at school, and have ended up learning-as-they-go. when we switched littlest to homeschool, mom stepped in and required typing lessons. he hates it and is generally horrible at it, but is better than I am. not as fast, though. I may look a little spazzy but I'm FAST!.
 

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Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 
Yep, my dad decided that even though I was academic and going to uni, touch typing was a skill for the future and he made me take it for three years. And behold, it is a skill I have never regretted, possibly the only skill I retain from my high school years. Top speed in the old days over 100wpm, these days I'd be surprised if it was over 50, but its still faster than my colleagues.

It helped that for some strange reason the typing teacher also conducted the school choir, and I loved her to bits.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
We definitely weren't taught to type at Grammar School, where neat, clear, fluent handwriting was prized above all else. At Primary School it was Copperplate with Fountain pen. At College, my dissertation was typed by my Fiancé (now husband), as he had already taught himself to touch type. So I only got into typing with Mavis Beacon when it became apparent that I would be doing a lot more typing on the computer in future.

In most professions, people went from having a secretary to do such things, to having to do them themselves - an invaluable skill.
 

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Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on :
 
In the late '70s, first year at secondary school, we had a choice between Technical Drawing and Typing. Three boys chose Typing, including me. I can touch-type text at 60 wpm, but need to look at the keyboard when programming.
 

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Posted by GCabot (# 18074) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Late Paul:
One of my work colleagues had a Das keyboard just to deliberately annoy people who used his PC. He also re-mapped several of the keys.

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The version with a completely blank keyboard?
If so, well done, although I imagine the clicking noise from the keyboard would have annoyed his co-workers enough already.
 

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Posted by Deputy Verger (# 15876) on :
 
I took typing and shorthand for some odd reason along with A-levels, and I think I got RSA certificates for them too, but I hated it and cheated. However, many many years of keyboard pounding since then, I am definitely looking at the result and not the action as I type this. However, I still don’t use my little fingers, and I never use the right shift key, only the one on the left.

A friend sat down to do something on my computer recently and was completely incapable, because my keyboard is so old and beat-up that all the vowels except U, plus the S and the L and most of the N, have been worn off the key faces. It doesn’t bother me at all.
 

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Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Typing was taught (as "secretarial studies) when I went to school (Scotland, 1970s), although I didn't take it up until I did a secretarial course at the local FE college in the early 1980s. We were taught touch-typing*, and I remember them having a sort of cover thing that hid your hands and the typewriter keys to make sure you didn't look at them.

The emphasis at that time was on audio-typing, which I did for a living for three years after I qualified.

* on a typewriter - the college acquired its first, BBC Basic, word-processor just before we left to sit our final exams, and we were each given 10 minutes on this wonderful new technology where you could change things before committing them to paper!
 

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Posted by Spawn (# 4867) on :
 
Taught myself to touch type at about the age of 17 and 18 from exercises in a long forgotten book. I took an electronic type writer to University in the early 80s and was one of only a few to type up essays. At the time I was pretty fast, up to about 90wpm. I helped finance my student overdraft by signing up with secretarial agency during student vacations.

But as I recall touch typing was not on school curriculums back in my day.
 

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Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
Brit here. I'm always stunned that most people who use computers regularly at work can't touch type. It seems odd that more people use keyboards than ever before but proportionally fewer touch type. Surely it's one skill that really ought to be being taught at school.

My mother was a secretary and taught us the basics of touching typing on a typewriter, including, IIRC, complicated things with stickers on our fingers. But it wasn't till I had my first job and had to use a computer on a daily basis that I really got good at touch typing.

*edited to pluralise keyboard - I may be able to touch type but I clearly can't actually write!

[ 03. June 2014, 22:05: Message edited by: Yangtze ]
 

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Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by piglet:
The emphasis at that time was on audio-typing, which I did for a living for three years after I qualified.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom:
... it would be interrupted by, "Oh shit, there's a truck," or, "Hang on a minute, the dictaphone has gone down my bra." ...

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The senior partner (for whom, thank God, I never worked) at the firm of solicitors where I worked was in the habit of sneezing, coughing and burping into his dictaphone without bothering to go back and re-record, which caused much mirth.
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
I hope you typed it in.
 

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Posted by Persephone Hazard (# 4648) on :
 
Like several others here I don't touch type properly, but I use all my fingers, I'm pretty fast - about 80-85wpm - and I don't look at the keyboard while I type. (Actually, that's not quite true - I mostly look at the screen, but I do glance down occasionally. Which I am now super aware of because I'm writing about it. It's like when someone starts talking about blinking and then your blinks feel like they will never be natural again. Bugger, now I can't blink *or* type naturally!)

I am also perfectly capable of typing quickly and pretty accurately while looking in the opposite direction and talking to someone about something else, which freaks some people out for some reason.
 

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Posted by GCabot (# 18074) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny S:
There was a move to suggest that primary children should be taught touch typing in the ICT sessions, but this was, in my view properly, resisted.

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quote:

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Originally posted by GCabot:

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny S:
There was a move to suggest that primary children should be taught touch typing in the ICT sessions, but this was, in my view properly, resisted.

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Why? The only consequence I can see is putting these children at a severe disadvantage in the future.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Penny S:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny S:
Snap, and I get an extra point for being female and sciencey.

And Horseman Bree, can you go and contribute some of that on the touch typing thread? My feeling that it is wholly inappropriate for primary children seems to be falling on deaf ears ... or appropriate metaphor.

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? The hell?

Most primary kid fingers do not have the kind of reach they need to comfortably do home- row touch-typing.

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Go and read. Apparently by not teaching it I have been depriving them forever of an essential skill. (Not just the reach, the coordination.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Nonsense. Do we teach kids cursive the minute they pick up a pen? Allowing them to hunt and peck the keyboard for a good space of time allows them to get a good mental map of the keyboard itself, so that when touch typing comes, they have an idea of where the keys are.
.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Boogie:
How do typists find touch screen keyboards?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Fineline:
I don't get why it wouldn't be useful to teach primary children, once they've learnt to write. It's surely no more complex than learning piano, and it's a useful skill to have. And also very handy for those who have disabilities that make handwriting difficult. I went to school with a kid who had a visual disability and she had been taught to touch type at around age 7 as a result of this - she was very adept at it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Moo:
The problem is that children differ in the size of their hands and in the development of muscle control. I think teaching touch-typing to ten-year-olds is a good idea. Almost all of them will be physically ready for it.

You spoke of the piano. My older daughter was very musical; when she was five years old the only thing she wanted for Christmas was a musical instrument. She was extremely small for her age, so we started her on a 1/8 size violin. Her hands were not large enough to do much with a piano until she was about ten.

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Yes, ten would be a good age. Or maybe eight. I wasn't thinking five, as children are still learning to write at that stage. I'd see it as most important to wait till the children are fairly competent at reading and writing - to be familiar with the alphabet and how words and language work.

I don't see hand size as a difficulty - the finger stretching on a regular computer keyboard is far less than that of a piano, and there are also plenty of netbooks, including those made specially for kids, with smaller keyboards.

Regarding muscle control, it's important to do things that require muscle control, to help develop it. Writing requires fine motor skills just as much as typing does - probably more so - but children still start learning to write at age 5. Sure, it's difficult to begin with, as they don't have that control, but they still start and the control develops.

I remember we had a term of typing lessons at school when I was eleven, and my typing teacher said that children who play the piano tend to be faster at learning to type because they've already developed that particular type of muscle control and strength. Although I guess finger strength isn't required so much now people use keyboards - we were using old-fashioned typewriters back then, which required quite strong strokes!
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I've had piano teachers actively dissuade me from starting my kid in piano till he was about eight or nine, telling me I'd be wasting time before then. As they were speaking against their own financial interest,I assumed they knew what they were talking about, and held off. The hand size has made a difference to what LL can handle as he grows (he's got a ten-key reach right now!) and I can see how it would matter for fullsize computer keyboards as well.
 

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Posted by ecumaniac (# 376) on :
 
Yeah, my piano teacher wouldn't take me until age 7. But I have friends who started on scaled down string instruments really really early, and did great.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I started piano lessons at age nine. I have big hands and learned well. Although we have a piano, I rarely play although knowing how to read music really helps me when I sing bass in a local choir which performs at our local Irish cultural center...
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Coming from a musical family, I'd restrict music lessons until 15. It warps your personality and musicality otherwise. Then again, I'd restrict Bible studies as well to a similar age, to remove the sense of knowing what's going to happen and that faith is a kid thing. And again, children's mileage vary - just make sure that it's completely voluntary so as not to remove the pleasure and play from adult musicality. If you're after skill, that's something you'll build ten times as quickly after 15 anyway. (I can hear the hissing of purists in the wings, but I've got a nice set of true stories to back this up.)

As for typing, I got touch typing classes in school but they gave me very, very little and I didn't pick it up then at all. However, getting an own computer at 15, I learned it by chatting and writing on forums, and got even better in university. One professor called me the most ardent note-taker he'd seen.

Never tested my speed, but I'd guess somewhere around 50-60 wpm, with about 80-90% accuracy, depending on what kind of typing. Class note-taking has accuracy plummeting as it's for memory, not reading. Like Comet, I only use three fingers on each hand (except thumbs for space of course). Balance works out better that way, or something.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
But then the problem is, what do you do with the little buggers until they turn 15?
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I respectfully disagree. Children have much more flexible hands than adolescents/adults and there are some major advantages to starting to learn an instrument younger. For strings, the ideal age is between 5 and 10. A tiny percentage of people who start later end up becoming professional musicians but it is a tiny minority.
 

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Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :
 
I agree with la vie en rouge. I also think this is a fascinating tangent which is probably worthy of its own thread!

And, back to our home keys!

jedijudy
Heaven Host giving a gentle steer to the thread.
 

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Posted by GCabot (# 18074) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Penny S:
Given that, introducing the children to what could be done with a computer in terms of art, research, editing text, presentations, making animations, photo processing, desk top publishing, use of spreadsheets, & manipulating simulations, seemed much more appropriate than just learning touch typing, especially when many primary children lack the coordination to do it successfully.

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quote:

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Originally posted by GCabot:

Touch typing will always have a place.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Firenze:

quote:

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Originally posted by GCabot:

Touch typing will always have a place.

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Well you say that, but just because virtual keyboards are 'less efficient' does not mean they will not win out. Have they hindered the rise of texting? What happens is that people have adapted language to facilitate the technology - txtspk lol!

I can touch type - but because the iPad offers me such much more in terms of convenience and portability, the 'place' of TT in my life will only be for composing serious amounts of text eg writing a book (which doesn't happen that often).

Horses for courses.

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quote:

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Originally posted by GCabot:
Pretty much any office job is going to require the ability to type effectively

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quote:

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Originally posted by Firenze:
And perhaps the future will be the ability to interact successfully with voice recognition software.

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quote:

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I respectfully disagree. Children have much more flexible hands than adolescents/adults and there are some major advantages to starting to learn (driving go-karts) younger. For (racing) the ideal age is... 5

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quote:

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I do not see the point in introducing children to things like making animations, spreadsheets, etc.

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quote:

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And my handwriting lessons were fun.

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I am impressed. Seriously.

I suppose whether or not the lesson is fun does depend on what the little darlings are learning to write.
 

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Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :
 
Scott Joplin music (Rifkin's version) because I reckoned the poorer writers had no rhythm. (Nicked that idea from the typing classes I overheard at school. And had spotted in my teens that writing homework to music fell into the rhythm of whatever it was.*) Marching round the classroom between session of writing patterns. Pretend playing the piano to loosen up the fingers. Exercises to help the thumb meeting the fingers to get the grip position right. Making the letter shapes in the air with the whole arm. (It has been found that if you get people to write their signature with their foot, it is recognisable as theirs.) So there was a mix of fighting the pencil and loosening up with larger movements. Ofsted seemed to like it.

*Two pieces I couldn't work with. The cancan in the overture to Orpheus. Too fast. And Bolero. My mind just went round and round and round over the same sentence.
 

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Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Sounds great. I felt very sorry for my daughter and her fellow Year 6s last month when they were doing their SATs. The first week after half term they were finally allowed to do fun things again - including one lesson working on computer animations that she enjoyed so much she insisted on telling me about it at great length as soon as she came home.
 

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Posted by GCabot (# 18074) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jane R:
GCabot:

quote:

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I do not see the point in introducing children to things like making animations, spreadsheets, etc.

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Well, I do.

Spreadsheets are widely used in businesses to keep accounts, and are also used by researchers when collating and analysing data. Any child who wants to work in business or do research - or even just study for a degree - needs to know how to use them.

Children who learn how to create animations may go on to work in film or TV; their chances of getting a job as a computer animation artist are far greater than their chances of being the next Sharon Stone or Harrison Ford. Never mind Hollywood; the British film industry makes a significant contribution to the UK economy and a large slice of that is from animation. And it's fun; children who squirm their way through handwriting lessons will happily sit working on an animation for the whole lesson.

Plus the more you learn about computers, the more confident you are about your ability to use them and the more likely you are to put the effort into learning how to use new programs and hardware.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
But spreadsheets and animations teach more abstract thinking, which when the rest of the curriculum is overloaded with basic skills and rote learning (times tables, names of parts of speech, spellings, handwriting skills), also needs teaching.

We can, of course, completely revert to the Victorian classroom of rote learning and basic skill teaching, but that would result in adults equipped for the Victorian workplace. Unfortunately, that's not what we currently have, many of the more repetitive roles having been outsourced to the developing world, which would leave us with a bit of a problem.

It would also reprise all those stories of the horrors of being schooled in Victorian times. We have enough of that thinking in the UK currently with the Govian reforms without adding to it unnecessarily.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:
Victorian schoolchildren were required to perform to a higher standard altogether in arithmetic, and from an early age were expected to master number systems based on other than the decimal system and be able to calculate fluently in them. They were expected to memorize a lot of things, as there would be fewer books and no e-resources to save them the bother of having to remember anything for themselves.

They were taught how to handwrite properly and neatly, a skill that is in decline these days. Spelling was considered essential, and these days if anything it ought to be more so because if you can't spell properly you'll struggle to do an accurate keyword search.

They were given an overview of history in chronological order - none of this experimentation with the syllabus that means that you might start the first three years of secondary school studying the period from the Romans to the Tudors, then discontinue the subject altogether unless you opted in to studying it for GSCE/O level, when you might find yourself doing something like 1919 to the present day, with no very clear idea of what happened in between, and then maybe at the next level, Charlemagne and his contemporaries.

Geography involved, amongst other things, learning where the other countries of the world were and identifying them on a map. There are children today who cannot do this and wouldn't be able to instantly locate Africa on a map.

Art and drawing were taught in a way that involved you looking closely and carefully at the subject you wanted to draw or paint, with the result that many could and did actually produce sketches and drawings that looked like the real thing. Many of today's children have never been taught how to do this and couldn't do a pencil sketch of even a simple, single object.

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