Ship of Fools: Visiting Britain

Thread: Visiting Britain Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

I, and a host of others, am visiting Britain this summer. Local wisdom is solicited here!
So if you were going for a fancy dinner in the Knightsbridge/Westminster/Covent Garden region, English-French-Italian, what would you recommend?

Posted by QLib (# 43) on :

Can't speak from recent personal experience, but maybe The Criterion would fit the bill. When you say "fancy dinner" you are looking for a biggish bill, right?

[ 11. June 2014, 20:48: Message edited by: QLib ]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

I believe the idea is to find a truly excellent meal.

Another Q: I have to spend a night in Cheltenham. Suggestions?

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Suggestion

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

Any number of lovely restaurants! What about Rules or Simpsons?

M.

Posted by Curious (# 93) on :

http://www.opentable.co.uk/ Have a look at this site - you might even find some deals if you eat early.
Curious

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I, and a host of others, am visiting Britain this summer. Local wisdom is solicited here!
So if you were going for a fancy dinner in the Knightsbridge/Westminster/Covent Garden region, English-French-Italian, what would you recommend?

I'd suggest insuring someone for lots of money and then killing them.

Posted by TheAlethiophile (# 16870) on :

At the risk of an echo, the choice is so great that it may be more prudent to pick an approximate budget per head first in order to narrow down your choices. You could go for anything between a Happy Meal and Michelin Star.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

The Guardian has a weekly restaurant review column. It doesn't confine itself to London, and I don't know whether it's easy to search through it. But here's the link.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

I would concur that your budget might end up a limiting factor. You can pay £100 a head, plus drinks. If you are not expecting a four-figure bill, it could come as a shock.

If you want very posh, you could try one of the hotels : Alaine Ducasse for example. Of course, for these, you might need to book. And again, for the taster menu at £125 a head, and wine at £10 a glass, you could easily hit £200 a head.

But you will have a superb meal.

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

And remember that no matter how much you paid in American dollars for pound sterling, one pound = one dollar in purchasing power.

Keep reciting that mantra and you won't die of apoplexy.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

It might be worth looking at the restaurant reviews in something like the London Evening Standard; we once discovered a wonderful place in Chelsea that way.

It turned out to be owned by someone who D. had been at primary school with, and whose mother had worked with D's mother. We were welcomed as if we were old friends, and had a seriously long, delicious and boozy lunch.

But, as the Alethiophile said, you'll be absolutely spoilt for choice in London, and the sky's the limit for prices, so setting an approximate budget wouldn't be a bad idea.

I've just noticed Covent Garden is one of your preferred destinations, and it's absolutely crawling with splendid eateries, some of which are very reasonable indeed.

If you want a "British" experience, Porters English Restaurant is a favourite of ours, and not at all badly priced by London standards. Their fisherman's pie is to die for, and they do a wonderful range of old-fashioned British puddings.

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

I've only ever had bad experiences at Porter's, but I concede I seem to be in the minority (I suppose it's more accurate to to say I've had 2 bad experiences there and didn't want to try again).

I agree with those upthread, it's not difficult to spend £100 a head plus.

M.

Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :

Cliche it may be, but The Ivy is very good.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

I don't know anything about food, but I read that the Chiltern Firehouse in Marylebone is currently the most achingly trendy place to eat in London:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/restaurants/10897476/Whats-all-the-fuss-about-the-Chiltern-Firehouse.html

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

Mind you, it looks from that article that if you're not the sort of person behind whom the Almighty has to walk a couple of paces, you haven't got a mission of getting in. And I don't know about you, but if I found Tony Blair or Simon Cowell at the next table it'd put me off my food ...

[Devil]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

I will pass this wisdom on. I am coming for the World Science Fiction Convention in August, so you may imagine that my friends and associates are ... varied.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by M.:
I've only ever had bad experiences at Porter's, but I concede I seem to be in the minority (I suppose it's more accurate to to say I've had 2 bad experiences there and didn't want to try again).

What a pity - the menu looks delicious. Was it the service or was the food rubbish?

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Ha! I was about to ask you whether con food wasn't good enough... [Big Grin]

Posted by Twangist (# 16208) on :

Surely someone can recommend a Klingon eaterie?

Posted by M. (# 3291) on :

Ariel, I just didn't have very good food - tough meat etc. It was a few years ago now but I've never been inclined to go back. As I said, I seem to be in a minority - most people rave about it. I probably just struck unlucky.

M.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

M

No, you're not alone.

A family friend loved Porter's and always booked to go there for celebrations. And everytime I wondered if it was just me and my other half that didn't get it... until one day a group of us were early and we discovered that the ff was the only person who enjoyed the food there, the rest of us were underwhelmed.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

There is a theory (and if you did not know we were SF writers you would know it now) that all SF conventions are the same SF conventions, connected at the back by a tesseract or something. all the panels, all the hallways, all the meeting rooms, all the food -- they are familiar. (Diana Wynn Jones uses this as a basis for one of her novels.)

Certainly you see all the same people there, talking or writing about thins that are oddly familiar. That guy, dragging a trilogy behind him the way Marley dragged his chains. That woman, wearing a fantasy series like the leaden cloaks in the Inferno. Oh, and great heavens, the costumes. (This year a friend has roped me in. Because of my ethnicity, I am tapped to be Mrs. Kim Jong Un. I will wear high heels and a designer-ish dress; he is going to wear a pseud- NK Army uniform. Must see if I can find a foolish hat.)

The cure for this syndrome is to get out. To see London, or Tucson, or Melbourne. Luckily I am traveling with my husband, who has never been to England before.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Visiting London is not visiting England. London's different; the feel of the place is as different to the rest of the country as to be like a foreign country. It's hard to explain. I can cope with occasional visits but I always feel like a naive tourist from far shores.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

Get your geek on ...

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Visiting London is not visiting England. London's different; the feel of the place is as different to the rest of the country as to be like a foreign country. It's hard to explain. I can cope with occasional visits but I always feel like a naive tourist from far shores.

You know I agree with you about London, but give the lass a break will ye. She is going out of London as far as Cheltenham (third post on this thread). I know still very southern England but last I checked London had not quite expanded that far yet.

Jengie

Posted by iamchristianhearmeroar (# 15483) on :

Restaurants: you're spoilt for choice as others have said. Most important thing is find a decent pub for beforehand and afters!

One of the very best in London (IMNSHO) is The Harp in Covent Garden, just off Trafalgar Square. It's pretty busy, but the beer is fantastic, usually around ten different ales to choose from, staff are great and always a good atmosphere.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Friends have also lured us further, on a expedition to the Lake District. I am writing a novel, so this will be good. I should say that aside from London I have been to other places in the UK, but they all blur into a touristy mash. Stonehenge, Cambridge, Stratford on Avon. That kind of thing. I have never seen the real country.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

The Lake District is wonderful, but ... it's walking country, you only really see it getting out of the bus and/or car and walking or cycling into the hills and mountains. Check a map and see how few roads run through that region and then think how much you'll see from a tour bus or car, on what will be a very crowded road or car park in August, because it's on the "must see" list for the UK.

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

This isn't a bad option if you want to do the Lake District car free.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Visiting London is not visiting England. London's different; the feel of the place is as different to the rest of the country as to be like a foreign country. It's hard to explain. I can cope with occasional visits but I always feel like a naive tourist from far shores.
You know I agree with you about London, but give the lass a break will ye. She is going out of London as far as Cheltenham (third post on this thread). I know still very southern England but last I checked London had not quite expanded that far yet.

Jengie

Heh. Can't be expected to remember everything I read.

I can just imagine London expanding to Cheltenham. You can hear the cabbies sighing now: "Nah, carn't go West of Reading. Won't get fare back, yer see?"

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

The American instinct, needing to travel from Cheltenham to the Lake District, is to rent a car. Is this folly? Perhaps I should take a train?

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The American instinct, needing to travel from Cheltenham to the Lake District, is to rent a car. Is this folly? Perhaps I should take a train?

Train will only take you as far as Windermere; the Cumbrian Coast line is extremely slow and the stations there are also quite distant from the mountains. Your instinct is probably correct, but the M5 and M6 can be very, very, long car parks at weekends in summer. It would take a good 4 hours, traffic permitting.

[ 16. June 2014, 15:45: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

If you want cheap and cheerful food at very low cost (for London), you could try The Stockpot. There's one on the King's Road in Chelsea, and another on Old Compton Street in Soho. There used to be another just off Leicester Square, but I think it's gone now. The menu is resolutely English, with just a hint of bohemianism. Nobody could ever call it fine dining, but it's fun. I've eaten at the Leicester Square and Old Compton St branches, and never had a bad meal.

I can also second iamchristianhearmeroar's suggestion of The Harp.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

I went to The Stockpot years ago and loved it - its prices were ludicrously low for London. I'm delighted that it is still there, especially on such a busy and expensive road. Is it still under the same ownership?

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

I will certainly keep my eye out for one. Cheap is good. This is going to be one spendy trip.

Posted by BroJames (# 9636) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
This isn't a bad option if you want to do the Lake District car free.

And I would particularly commend the Cross Lakes Experience for giving you some variety and 'culture'.

Also, if you're in that area, a 30-40 min walk from the heart of Bowness will take you to the crowd-free top of Brantfell with great views of the lake below and a large part of the southern Lake District. It's not a centre for the dedicated walker (try Ambleside for that) but it has activities for a range of abilities including those walking with frames or pushing buggies.

Posted by busyknitter (# 2501) on :

So long as you don't have too much luggage, a fun way to get around the Lake District by public transport is to arrive at Windermere by train, walk a mile down the hill to Bowness and then take the boat to various points around the lake.

And there's always the buses.

The drive from Cheltenham to the Lakes would be quite a hard slog IMHO

Posted by cheesymarzipan (# 9442) on :

It might be easier to get the train to Windermere or Lancaster and drive from there to save you the motorways. The roads in the Lake District can be very windy and narrow though! The lakes can be very busy in the summer, but the coast is quieter and also beautiful (and the coast line may be slow but you get great views on a sunny day)

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

The Western Fells are a LOT quieter than the Windermere to Grasmere corridor. There is [or was] a super bookshop in Hawkshead - still a bit touristy but...

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
If you want cheap and cheerful food at very low cost (for London), you could try The Stockpot. There's one on the King's Road in Chelsea, and another on Old Compton Street in Soho. There used to be another just off Leicester Square, but I think it's gone now. The menu is resolutely English, with just a hint of bohemianism. Nobody could ever call it fine dining, but it's fun. I've eaten at the Leicester Square and Old Compton St branches, and never had a bad meal.

I can also second iamchristianhearmeroar's suggestion of The Harp.

Yes to both. Disappointed to see that the Panton St (I think) Stockpot had gone last time I was in London but other branches are certainly worth going to because (a) cheap and (b) very English of a particular period- the 1950s/60s when 'continental' influences were just about starting to creep in.
Is the Harp's food still basically very good sausages?

[ 17. June 2014, 08:55: Message edited by: Albertus ]

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Here's the website for the Kings Rd Stockpot (can't find one for Old Compton St): have a look at the menu and you'll see that it is both trad and eye-wateringly cheap.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

In the 80s there were several Pots in the Earls Court area ~ they were cheap enough for us to eat in as students. I didn't find the Panton Street one until much later.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Here's the website for the Kings Rd Stockpot ...

Crikey - what a nostalgia-fest, and fairly nostalgic prices too! [Big Grin]

eta: Our favourite (relatively) cheap eaterie in the UK is Cafe Rouge, which is unashamedly French bistro in style, but as we really have nothing like that here in St. John's, it's always a treat.

[ 17. June 2014, 14:54: Message edited by: piglet ]

Posted by iamchristianhearmeroar (# 15483) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Is the Harp's food still basically very good sausages?

Pretty much, I think. I was there a couple of months back and didn't see anything other than sausages on offer. Not that I was paying particularly close attention - I was there for the beer.

Ah well, maybe I need to do a quick fact-finding mission to double check. Singing in a concert at St Martin in the Fields this Friday so that would be a perfect opportunity!

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

Then there is posh trad British food - only place to have marketed itself by promoting squirrel suet pudding. Will definitely offer food you can't cook yourself or get elsewhere.

Set restaurant menu + cocktail is £25, food is generally v good.

But they also have good stuff on the bar menu at £13 - well worth a look.

[ 17. June 2014, 17:23: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Thank you so much. I am printing all this stuff out, for future reference. (I plan to bring my Ipad, but who knows about connectivity.)

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
(I plan to bring my Ipad, but who knows about connectivity.)

I've just come back from a few days away in the south of England: both sets of people we stayed with had it; the hotel we stayed at; the cafe where I had lunch - even a passing double-decker bus advertised on-board wifi.

In rural areas I would expect it (and have found it) to be equally widespread, since so many business in the area of hospitality and tourism depend on online bookings/recommendations.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Mind, using 3g would come with roaming charges. Many places have free wifi, but IME the 3G signal is quite weak and intermittent. Indeed, I know population centres (yes, Staveley, Derbyshire, I am thinking of you) where there's not enough packet data signal to send a simple text email.

Posted by Edith (# 16978) on :

Absolutely the best food you will ever eat is to be found at The Sportsman in Seasalter in Kent. Unprepossessing on the outside it has the most imaginative superb food at a reasonable price to be found anywhere. About an hour and a quarter from SE London by car.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Gosh, I remember the Sportsman when it was as unprepossessing on the inside as it is on the outside. Good location right on the coast by the marshes: if going by train you'll need a cab from either Faversham or Whitstable, (can't rremember which is closer). If you're in that part of the world, don't bother with the Native Oyster Stores in Whitstable- over-hyped and not a place that people go back to.
Mind you, if you are going that way there are some good things about- Whitstable is pleasant enough but over-run by 'Down from London' visitors (I grew up there), Canterbury's not far, and the new Turner Gallery at Margate is down the coast. Also some pleasant towns and villages around Canterbury, the odd bit of 'deep England' in places like the Elham Valley, and small treasures like the (modern) murals in the church at Challock.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Alas, the number of 'while you are there you really ought not to miss' items is infinite. Some day I will make another trip. I drop by about once a decade -- my last trip I scheduled, with amazing talent, for the afternoon of September 11, 2001. As you may imagine, it did not go well.

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Yes- sorry- going back there for a few days soon and got a bit carried away!

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

Canterbury's lovely, but in the summer it sometimes suffers from infestations of snotty French schoolchildren.

[Help]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

What is it like in January? My church is organizing an Epiphany tour of British churches. I am almost certainly not going (blowing all my money in August) but it is nice to think about it.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

I would not recommend it.

In January we have comparatively little daylight and what there is, is either wet grey or thin and cold. Also, January is rather good at attracting the spectacularly awful weather such as weeks of snow or severe flooding. As a result, even in a good year travel around the UK is less reliable than at other times of the year whether by road or train.

If you must then the sensible thing is to stick to a city with a lot of cultural activity e.g. London or Edinburgh.

Jengie

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
What is it like in January? My church is organizing an Epiphany tour of British churches. I am almost certainly not going (blowing all my money in August) but it is nice to think about it.

Likely to be bitterly cold with the wind from the North Sea blowing in on it. That part of the country seems to get longer, colder winters than much of the rest; I remember them as usually stretching out for about six months, with a wind like a knife that effortlessly cut through however many layers you were wearing.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Boy, I can tell none of you work for the British Tourism people! It does sound appalling.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Really, they aren't kidding. Last winter we had devastating floods, the winter before we had snow from November to March in the south-east. And even London isn't immune from travel disruption and power cuts in those conditions.

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
I would not recommend it.

In January we have comparatively little daylight and what there is, is either wet grey or thin and cold.

Whilst no sensible person would choose January as the only month to see the British isles, thin and cold light (thanks Jengie, that is such a great description) if you're lucky to get a cold, dry winter, is truly most beautiful to behold.

(Pity you only get it for about seven hours a day, at best... )

Save your money for a return visit. Ideally, early May, when I think we probably look our best and the weather is most amenable to sightseeing.

Posted by Dormouse (# 5954) on :

Should you go to Margate, and should you like Indian food, I can heartily recommend this restaurant "The Ambrette" - the food is wonderful and reasonable for what you get.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

I reckon some of you are being a bit hard on the South of England in January. I know you've had a couple of rather rougher winters lately, but we used to go there regularly after Christmas when we lived in Belfast, and as long as you were reasonably well wrapped-up it wasn't that bad.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

I can show you lots of pictures of different lots of snow in January for quite a few years. Last year was the first without snow (and ice) for a while.

I would mind the snow less if the pavements were swept and we didn't have weeks of walking on compacted ice to go anywhere. Or I hadn't got stranded 7 miles from home as the tube failed one night and we had a two hour wait to taxi-share - excitingly. Or the buses didn't all get cancelled so cycling home in the snow storm and worrying about the other road users.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
I reckon some of you are being a bit hard on the South of England in January. I know you've had a couple of rather rougher winters lately, but we used to go there regularly after Christmas when we lived in Belfast, and as long as you were reasonably well wrapped-up it wasn't that bad.

Ah, I remember it from my teenage years. Dirty great snowdrifts rendering some of the roads impassable, and a wind that would give you earache within two minutes of your stepping outside the front door. The chill of winter striking up through the stone floors and the carpet. Condensation freezing the curtains to the window glass overnight. Endless days of damp when you could see your breath in the air (indoors) and it was impossible to dry any laundry indoors or outside. And the fogs! Proper pea-soupers, visibility down to about three yards.

And we were still expected to go to school, despite the packs of starving wolves that banded together around the school gates, howling miserably as we drew lots for which of our number we might throw to them to distract them so the rest of us could get in...

Well, possibly a slight exaggeration in one of those two paras, but the rest is as I remember it.

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

Early May is best. We've had a lovely spring - well at least round here we have.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Ariel, that sounds heartfelt. I could use that...

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

Quick and Ffriendly reminder to everyone [not just Brenda] that posts here are copyrighted just by being posted here and should not be taken and used in other contexts.

Thanks.

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