Ship of Fools: Sailorlets thread

Thread: Sailorlets thread Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=027968

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

I can't see a baby and toddler thread open so I'm starting up this one.

Opening topic:
The Dafling has been beginning to eat meals with us. She is still a bit short on teeth so she's not really up to meat other than sausage meat and mince. Do people have ideas for things that can be eaten without boredom by the whole family please?

Posted by Lucia (# 15201) on :

When ours were small they generally had whatever we were having but pureed in an electric blender, initially finely to baby food consistency (a little water added to get this) and as they grew older blended for less time to get a coarser chopped effect. An advantage of this is they get used to eating lots of different flavours and are more likely to grow up with a wider palette.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lucia:
When ours were small they generally had whatever we were having but pureed in an electric blender, initially finely to baby food consistency (a little water added to get this) and as they grew older blended for less time to get a coarser chopped effect. An advantage of this is they get used to eating lots of different flavours and are more likely to grow up with a wider palette.

She's getting a bit past the stage where she needs non-meat blended. And what we'd like is for her to be able to eat exactly what we're eating. It's less faff for us cooking, and she knows that the stuff on her plate is the same as the stuff on Mum's plate. (Tthe stuff on Mum's plate is more interesting than the stuff on her plate even when they're exactly the same.)
What I'm looking for is recipe suggestions that work for adults and small children at the same time. At the moment, we have sausage, pasta bolognese, cottage pie, and macaroni cheese. I'd like to widen the variety a bit.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
It's less faff for us cooking, and she knows that the stuff on her plate is the same as the stuff on Mum's plate. (Tthe stuff on Mum's plate is more interesting than the stuff on her plate even when they're exactly the same.)

Sorry to dampen your expectations but my niece never bought that story. She was always sure that the food on her older brothers plate was better than hers. In the end my sister used to give my nephew a side helping for his sister.

Jengie

Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :

We just chopped up meat really really tiny for calf 1. Or cut it into long fingers, so she could suck it and gum it to death. Baby-led weaning is the way forward if you want low-faff meals [Smile]

Calf 2 is just starting with vegetable and fruit fingers, which get enthusiastically waved at us before being sucked until they disappear.

Sarky

Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sarkycow:
[...]
Sarky

Welcome back!

Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on :

Our son at that age was very fond of curry and rice. (Won't touch it now!)

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
Our son at that age was very fond of curry and rice. (Won't touch it now!)

I am so sorry for him.

Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :

Calf 1 likes curry and rice, but separately (she's at the age when everything has to be separate rather than mixed together). And she loves the bread, jam and crisps you have with it [Big Grin]

Posted by Keren-Happuch (# 9818) on :

Both KGlets ate all kinds of things at that age that they won't touch now (although KGlet1 is getting much better at trying things again). Once the power of "no!" kicks in...

Still, fish pie, and fish in general, is good. You can make a bolognaise type thing with tuna instead of mince. A baked bean minestrone pot thing worked well at that age. Can post recipes in Heaven to save annoying the AS hosts.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Keren-Happuch:
Still, fish pie, and fish in general, is good. You can make a bolognaise type thing with tuna instead of mince. A baked bean minestrone pot thing worked well at that age. Can post recipes in Heaven to save annoying the AS hosts.

Recipes in Heaven would be good. Thank you.

[ 06. May 2013, 18:40: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on :

I was also going to suggest fish dishes.

You could also try vegetarian versions of bolognese, shepherds pie etc using lentils which have some texture. Or veggie dishes including chickpeas. I'm assuming that you're feeding her, from your description?

Ariel posted a link some while back to a pumpkin sausage & Sage casserole which is pretty good. Yes, it's still sausage, but there are also beans and squash (I use butternut squash out of pumpkin time) in there, and a different flavour combination from bolognese based stuff, which would give you & Mrs Dafyd a change.

[disclaimer] I am not a parent, and I have a sum total of zero experience with feeding babies/toddlers!.

Posted by Viola (# 20) on :

Heck - yes - fish!

Our toddler polished off an enormous plate of salmon (coated in saffron couscous - thanks Delia & Waitrose recipe cards) this evening, and will generally eat mountains of nicely cooked, flaky fish. If ours is in a spicy sauce, his will be in a milder version of the same - obviously it MUST look exactly the same as whatever's on my plate.

Unless there is rhubarb crumble on my plate. That was hilarious - but not for the toddler.

Meat works if it's either cut up very small, or very thoroughly stewed so that it will fall apart easily. Think casseroles or pulled pork or suchlike.

Posted by Keren-Happuch (# 9818) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:
Originally posted by Keren-Happuch:
Still, fish pie, and fish in general, is good. You can make a bolognaise type thing with tuna instead of mince. A baked bean minestrone pot thing worked well at that age. Can post recipes in Heaven to save annoying the AS hosts.
Recipes in Heaven would be good. Thank you.

Done.

Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Viola:

Unless there is rhubarb crumble on my plate. That was hilarious - but not for the toddler.

Sounds interesting, I'd love to know what happened....unless it was [Projectile]

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :

Great to see you Sarky!

Little ferijen (nearly 1) Doesn't Do Pasta, much to his mother's disdain. Unless its so tiny its invisible (think, tiny pasta in a soup). However, rice is good - my 'special fried rice', risotto and paella are all easy wins and work for him and us.

Fish pie is great, fish fingers, less so. I find that depending on how horrid the teeth are feeling depends on what goes down.

A very quick and easy one is a single egg omelette, with veg very small in it (veg is hit and miss, having been very much hits a few months ago). Folded over, a bit of cheese in the middle, and either cut into fingers for self feeding, or fed on a fork when he's feeling more, er, picklish.

The first time he had pizza - with two teeth - was a revelation. He looked at us 'so *this* is what its all about?'.

He had his first ice cream yesterday. A shop near us does toddler cones. Proud mum moment.

Posted by Viola (# 20) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Surfing Madness:

quote:
Originally posted by Viola:

Unless there is rhubarb crumble on my plate. That was hilarious - but not for the toddler.

Sounds interesting, I'd love to know what happened....unless it was

Well, you know that face an adult will make when given a lemon to suck..? That, for the first taste, then a very slow headshake and a sad 'Doh Mumma' ('doh' being toddler for 'no' in our house) when offered another spoonful, with a much higher custard to rhubarb ratio. Then later at night, when I checked on him in bed, there was a teeny tiny bit of spewed up rhubarb on his sheet.

Poor, abused child.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Dafyd

Try risotto: if you use a basic recipe for, say, mushroom risotto you can spoon out a helping for the tiny before adding either shredded chicken or prawns for the bigger people.

Spaghetti (or other pasta) al forno is another useful standby if made using a bland-ish sauce and then the rest of you can have grilled meat or whatever to go with it.

Salad is also good at this age - softish, lots of nice textures for the little to explore - if its too cold add some new potato wedges or similar.

As for meat and lack of teeth - we used to make our own burgers and just put a small amount of the mixture into the blender so it became a paste: form into a burger and the little eats exactly the same.

Bon appetit

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

We would also recommend risotto (the famous toddler is not longer keen, but used to love mushroom and butternut squash risotto), or for an alternative you could use orzo (also called risoni) and make a risoniotto. (This one would not suit the famous toddler, who has gone off mushrooms. We make one with salmon, spinach and peas which he likes). I would second the suggestion of a mild curry - the famous toddler likes chicken korma, with butternut squash and apricots, based on an Annabel Karmel recipe. In terms of meat, meatballs are a good one. Again, we use an Annabel Karmel recipe for beef and apple meatballs, and serve them with pasta and a "tomato and hidden vegetable sauce" (essentially a basic tomato sauce with lots of finely chopped carrot, celery and onion).

We are just starting potty training. Does anyone have any tips?

All the best,

Rachel.

[ 08. May 2013, 13:00: Message edited by: the famous rachel ]

Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :

Noodles of all kinds. Usually eaten with fingers, and hold the sauce for little person, usually also. At most grated cheese with it. Peas and beans are also good, one at a time with fingers.

I recall it all being rather messy. Regardless of what it is.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

quote:
posted by the famous rachel
We are just starting potty training. Does anyone have any tips?

1. If your child is very small make sure they actually make pants small enough to fit - we had two able to use a potty but couldn't find underpants...

2. Only try to potty-train in the summer.

3. Use the "total immersion" method.

a week or so about being a "big" boy or girl now
take them with you to buy the underpants and let them choose
for 1 child you'll need around 12 pairs of pants
mark it as a "special" day at breakfast, then nappies away!
with summer weather make all play outdoor or around area near downstairs loo - washable floors, see!
let them play in just underpants and T-shirt - its a big ask to expect them to cope with trousers or skirts as well
HUGE praise as and when they go on the potty or ask for the loo
NO BIG DEAL if they wet themselves
after about 2 weeks you should have a dry toddler during the daytime

Getting them dry at night:

before discarding the overnight nappy ask if they can try going through the night without "having" to wet it; don't attempt commando night times until you've had 4 dry nights in seven
wait at least 6-8 weeks before attempting dry night times
during these 6-8 weeks alter the night time routine so that last drink is taken earlier
make tooth brushing then loo the last two actiivities before bed
when you put to bed remind them that if they wake up NEEDING TO PEE they can call you (reinstate baby alarm for this purpose)

Most important thing is to make sure they don't feel they've made you cross or angry if they have an accident. To help with this, beg/borrow/buy from charity shop old towels and make triple thickness strips to go across the bed - only the worst wet will penetrate right through.

If you work during the day but are taking a 2 week holiday, then build it up that WHEN YOU GO ON HOLIDAY they won't need nappies and go for it that way. Try to fit in overnight routine around a similar period when it won't be so important if you're faced with a wet bed.

Above all remember that all children are different so try to be as relaxed about it as possible.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

To help with this, beg/borrow/buy from charity shop old towels and make triple thickness strips to go across the bed - only the worst wet will penetrate right through.

Old shower curtains. Specifically, make the bed, lay down an old shower curtain, then make the bed again. You can do several layers like this if you like. When you get a mid-night accident, just remove the top sheet and shower curtain, and the bed is ready again.

"Strips" across the bed wouldn't have worked with the Cnihtlets - they all seem to dance in their sleep, so the business end migrates freely around the bed.

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the famous rachel:

We are just starting potty training. Does anyone have any tips?

Be as relaxed about it as possible and remember that every child is different. Nenlet2 was over 3 before he got it and one friend said to me she was sure once he did it he'd do days and nights simultaneously. Sure enough, she was right! The trick seemed to be to get Mr Nen to take him to the toilet and demonstrate - there must have been some sense of "You haven't got one of these, how would you know how they work?" [Biased]

Nenlet1 did day times very tidily at a much earlier age, she was just ready to do it earlier.

And I suspect your mum was a more enlightened generation but you don't always have to take on board what parents say. My mum always insisted I was clean and dry at a year. [Roll Eyes]

Nen - who must have spent the first year of life with a potty strapped to her backside.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Nenya

There is a reason why children born in the 50s and 60s were dry earlier - terry nappies.

Wet terry nappies = nappy rash, guaranteed.

And would YOU want to wander about with great swathes of soaking wet towelling around your nether regions? Me neither.

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Nenya

There is a reason why children born in the 50s and 60s were dry earlier - terry nappies.

Wet terry nappies = nappy rash, guaranteed.

And would YOU want to wander about with great swathes of soaking wet towelling around your nether regions? Me neither.

I completely agree. I started Nenlet1 with terry nappies (my mum having done the usual "mum" thing in those days and bought me two dozen when the baby was on the way [Roll Eyes]

) and she got nappy rash that wouldn't clear up. It was the doctor who advised me to start using disposables - which wouldn't happen now as terries these days are a lot more user-friendly.

I still maintain I wasn't properly toilet trained, just made to sit on the potty at very regular intervals. In fact I can still remember it - straining to "go" in order to please my mum. [Roll Eyes]

Nen - TMI.

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nenya:
Be as relaxed about it as possible and remember that every child is different. Nenlet2 was over 3 before he got it and one friend said to me she was sure once he did it he'd do days and nights simultaneously. Sure enough, she was right! The trick seemed to be to get Mr Nen to take him to the toilet and demonstrate - there must have been some sense of "You haven't got one of these, how would you know how they work?"

The famous toddler is nearly 2 and a half. I hadn't really intended to start this quite yet (although I had bought a potty), but one evening whilst he was pottering round the bathroom with no clothes on while I was getting his bath ready, he announced "I do wee in potty!", and sat down, and did just that. He did the same the next evening, so I felt this was too good an opportunity to pass up. The trouble is that he is prone to sloppy poos, which will make a hell of a mess when he goes into pants, and I suspect he has little or no control over them. He's keen to go into pants, but I don't want to end up having to force him back into nappies because the poo situation is unbearable! I am thus considering either disposable or washable training pants, but am not sure this is a good idea either - particularly the disposable ones which just strike me as more expensive nappies!

Thanks for all the thoughts so far.

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

If he does sloppy poos, it might be worth checking him for lactose intolerance or any food intolerance. Gluten springs to mind.

I can vouch for lactose intolerance causing sloppy poos. The others are worth a look at.

Posted by Martha (# 185) on :

Working on potty training with my 2 1/2 year old right now too. We did a little while having him in pants at home and nappies out, but that got too confusing so just went cold turkey after Easter and he did pretty well. He is dry during daytime and naps, and was doing OK at night, but then wet the bed 7 nights in a row so we've put him back in washable nappies overnight. I agree about the disposable training pants - they seem a right rip-off and a lot of waste.

He also does quite sloppy poos, which I just assumed was due to his age. Am I wrong? Because we used cloth nappies, we had some flushable liners to put in them, so we just put them in his pants now, and that helps with clean up. He still won't poo on the potty and gets quite anxious when he needs to go, but most advice I've read says, "patience" so I'm hoping it works out.

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

Some children just do have sloppy poos, especially those of a more nervous disposition (my eldest).
I used to make and sell cloth nappies, my brand name was puddlepants [Smile]

alas, my site is no longer active as I just don't have time these days.

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

Thanks all. We are actually in the process of discussing food intolerances with the GP, but currently the issue doesn't look like a classic food intolerance. He has fairly solid poos for a couple of weeks and then suddenly they go massive and sloppy, with no change to his diet and no unusual foods. They then go back to normal for no apparent reason. I'm wondering if stress is involved, although I can't spot specific stress triggers either.

Anyway, I am considering some form of cloth training pants. Does anyone have any experience of these. I found some really clever looking ones on the web, with variable thickness liners, but they seemed to be more than £15 each (!) so I won't be buying them!

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :

Rachel:

quote:
He's keen to go into pants, but I don't want to end up having to force him back into nappies because the poo situation is unbearable!

Don't panic if you do have to do this, and try not to make a big deal out of it. We had to put The Girl back in nappies because we tried to do potty training before she was really ready (due to pressure from the nursery, which in retrospect we should have ignored, but pobody's nerfect). Six months later we tried again and sailed through the potty training with no problems. Well, none that I can remember now, anyway.

I wish I'd had L'organist to advise me when we were going through the potty training stage, but all of them do learn eventually. Keep repeating to yourself 'This too shall pass' as you are mopping up the Little Accidents.

You may find you're worrying unnecessarily; I don't know whether they have more control over poo or whether they're just more aware of when it's coming, but children being toilet-trained seem to have far more accidents with wee.

[ 16. May 2013, 11:01: Message edited by: Jane R ]

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the famous rachel:

Anyway, I am considering some form of cloth training pants. Does anyone have any experience of these. I found some really clever looking ones on the web, with variable thickness liners, but they seemed to be more than £15 each (!) so I won't be buying them!

Minki nappies does a nappy that can be pulled up called a yoyo but these are still pricy at £13 (they are handmade by a mum in the Hebrides). She's been around for a few years and makes nappies for older children too.
Tbh I found standard training pants sold in Boots, Mothercare etc useless as they don't hold anything as they have little absorbency. But if it is just poos you are worried about they may be okay.

Posted by Antisocial Alto (# 13810) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the famous rachel:

Anyway, I am considering some form of cloth training pants. Does anyone have any experience of these. I found some really clever looking ones on the web, with variable thickness liners, but they seemed to be more than £15 each (!) so I won't be buying them!

We potty trained by going cold turkey with underpants during the day- I read somewhere that using pull-ups or other absorbent training pants just confuses the child because they feel too much like a diaper.

It worked quite well for daytimes, only took about four days for him to catch on, but a year and a half later he's still not dry at night! I understand boys do often take longer though.

We did use extra-absorbent underpants like
these. They are just like regular underpants only about 3x thicker down the middle. Thin enough so the child definitely feels it if they have an all-out accident, but thick enough to soak up a little drippage. Plus they are cheap. [Cool]

Dafyd, we had a book called Whole Foods for Babies and Toddlers from La Leche League- it has a bunch of recipes for the whole family, with options to make them simpler for younger babies. When I searched the title on Amazon several similar cookbooks came up as well. Hope this helps.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

quote:
posted by Jane R
I wish I'd had L'organist to advise me when we were going through the potty training stage...

Gosh, thanks. We just muddled through really, and having a pair does have the added bonus of competition between the two.

The only other hint I can give: don't leave grapes lying around - mine got through nearly a kilo between them one morning and the rest of the day was spent practically chained to the loo [Eek!]

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

Brief update from our end:

The famous toddler is now wearing basic Mothercare training pants, and is getting on pretty well. He's having very few wee-related accidents but is struggling a lot more with poo. We are using a sticker chart to motivate him, with little presents when he fills in a row of stickers. It hasn't been anywhere near as difficult as I anticipated so far, although success is reliant on an awful lot of reminders from adults that he should use the potty. Now I am wondering two things:

1. How do I get him to be more independent, so that I don't have to keep reminding/nagging.

2. How do we ever stop giving him stickers/rewards, having started?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :

This probably won't be helpful, Rachel, but the only answer I can think of to both your questions is 'it just happens'; suddenly they get to the point where they go to the toilet without being nagged because that's what big girls (or boys) do, not because they're expecting a sticker or little treats. We filled pages and pages of sticker charts and went through a phase of having to remind her regularly to go to the toilet and then suddenly she seemed to get it. I think with the stickers we just finished off the last packet and then didn't bother buying any more.

She still likes getting stickers at school, but we don't hand them out at home now. Saying thank you and giving her extra hugs when she does stuff like tidying her room without being asked seems to work just as well (she's nine).

When you're going through a developmental stage it seems like it's going to last forever, but suddenly they move on to the next phase and after a while it's difficult to remember what the previous one was like.

YMMV, of course; some children are more motivated by getting tangible rewards like stickers. Ours seems to be content with expressions of parental approval and the occasional small treat like a new book when she does something really outstanding.

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

It's also worth remembering that they don't have the growing awareness of needing a wee that adults do.
When they are young (and it can go on even until they are at school) they suddenly realise that they have to go NOW, and that is quite normal.

So if they say one minute that they don't need to go and 5 minutes later have an accident, they were not necessarily being difficult or ignoring it.

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
...
When they are young (and it can go on even until they are at school) they suddenly realise that they have to go NOW, and that is quite normal...

I'm 64 and have the same problem!

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:

quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
...
When they are young (and it can go on even until they are at school) they suddenly realise that they have to go NOW, and that is quite normal...
I'm 64 and have the same problem!

now that I am afraid WW is worthy of a thread all of it's own... [Big Grin]

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:

quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
...
When they are young (and it can go on even until they are at school) they suddenly realise that they have to go NOW, and that is quite normal...
I'm 64 and have the same problem!

I'd say something but you would probably just laugh and point fingers. Meany.

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

Thanks all - that's very helpful.

I have no problem with continuing to give stickers until he naturally grow out of them, although the small presents may have to get gradually less frequent. It's very helpful to know that he will (hopefully) grow out of them eventually, without having to make an issue of it.

I wasn't aware that the sensation of needing to pee comes over them quite so suddenly, so that's useful to know.

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by Martha (# 185) on :

We did small pieces of chocolate for going on the potty for a while (since we had several Easter eggs to use up anyway!) and for a while he would ask for it every time, but a few months later he hardly ever mentions it.

We still haven't solved the poo issue though. He always hides away to go in his pants (in another room or under the table) but won't go to the bathroom, never mind go in his potty. Any advice welcomed.

Posted by Jenn. (# 5239) on :

We are also having potty issues. As in, he really doesn't want to go on the potty or toilet, but we really need him trained (please trust me that this isn't just selfish parenting). We know he has the control (last time we tried it he didn't wee for 7 hours then hid in the corner to go), he just doesn't want to use anything other than a nappy.

Any bright ideas? We're planning a chocolate incentive for just sitting on the potty at the moment....

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

A friend managed to potty train her boy by getting him to wee in a bottle (plastic) rather than a pot. Or standing up to wee in the toilet like his father? Doesn't solve pooing, but might help get one under control

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

We, after initial success, hit total resistance, and so we have put him back in nappies and stopped for a bit. It's going to have to be done sometime though. Ag.

Rachel.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Be reassured that even the most reluctant ones get there eventually.

An amazing friend of mine started the process at age 6 months, saved her a fortune in nappies. I've not heard of anyone else doing it THAT early though!

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the famous rachel:
We, after initial success, hit total resistance, and so we have put him back in nappies and stopped for a bit. It's going to have to be done sometime though.

I like doing it in the summer, because the child can basically spend the summer naked. Not having to deal with clothing can make all the difference between a successful dash to the loo / potty and wet pants and a puddle.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Be prepared for a setback if you make any major life-changes. This is quite normal. I remember smugly thinking I had it all sorted - then we moved house.

Posted by John Holding (# 158) on :

I'd think a boy would be highly motivated to pee in a toilet (rather than a potty) standing up by seeing his father/older borther/slightly older friend doing it first. Trying to make a boy like peeing in a potty is not so good, as I recall from when my own son was finally getting it all together -- and rather later than we wanted. Learning to aim is a lot easier if you're on a step-stool and facing a toilet.

John

Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :

Nothing wrong with a bag of jelly-babies or whatever for rewards. Buy them specially, even let him choose which kind of sweets, put them visible on a high shelf, and say how much you can't wait for them to come down. Be sure to keep a few with you for when you're out of the house.

Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :

quick baby related question, with regards to wind

If you should hold a baby upright to encourage burping to relieve wind, but a breastfed baby is more likely to let air out the other end (according to the HV), should we be holding the baby upside down ?

[Biased]

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :

In Spain they burp the baby over the knee instead of over the shoulder. Less puke down your back that way.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:

If you should hold a baby upright to encourage burping to relieve wind, but a breastfed baby is more likely to let air out the other end (according to the HV), should we be holding the baby upside down ?

Well, that depends - how badly do you want a lap full of regurgitated milk?

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

I would have thought that one should hold the baby the same way as for bottle-fed babies. The geometry of human innards is such that I suspect that the position you hold the baby will make no difference to how quickly the air gets to the other end.
The Daflet liked to lie on her tummy and lifting her head to get her burbs out herself.

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

As I understand it...

Breastfed babies usually swallow less air when feeding and hence may not need to be burped. Wind coming out the other end comes from digestive processes, and won't necessarily need to come out straight after a feed. I may have my biology all wrong though...

More practically: if your baby (breast or bottle fed) suffers with wind of the sort that comes out the bottom end, lie him or her on her back (perhaps after a nappy change, or at another convenient time but NOT just after a feed) and bring his or her knees up towards his/her chest, If he or she is comfortable, press them gently towards his/her chest. This often helps to release some gas.

All the usual caveats about my total lack of qualifications apply, but this worked for us!

Rachel.

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

Day 1 of 2nd attempt at toilet training:

10 wet pairs of pants. Aghh.

Hope everyone else is having a better weekend than me!

R.

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

Fall allergies suck. I mean they annoy me, but I'm frustrated enough about how they are affecting Gremlin that I'm torn between posting here and consigning our generally good pediatrician to Hell. (Reason won out, but not by much.) So Gremlin wakes up every night for at least an hour in misery with allergies. We suction his nose, but he hates it, as babies do, so then he's worked up and doesn't fusses or screams at us for an hour or so. We asked his doctor for advice at his checkup and she suggests saline. Well yes, saline is great for clearing his nose, and we have some. But I'm sort of trying to prevent the misery before it happens!

Now, obviously you all can't give medical advice, but I would dearly love whatever advice you have about what to do with babies and hayfever. Our doctor is fine with giving him benadryl, but since he's overly stuffy that doesn't help anyway. If Goblin had had this problem we'd have put her to sleep in her carseat, upright at least. Problem is that Gremlin DETESTS carseats, so that would be even worse than his crib. Help?

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

I have dealt with chronic rhinitis and allergies all my life. Years ago, I found something I can only describe as a foam wedge. If that is placed under the mattress, it has the same effect as elevating the head of the bed. I found relief. When I didn't need it any longer (because I got an electric bed), I passed it on to someone whose young daughter had (has) a vicious gastric bile reflux. It worked for that too. Maybe that will work. (I bought mine at a medical supply shop)

[ 28. August 2013, 17:07: Message edited by: PeteC ]

Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :

If he's still in a cot, you can get special doodads to put under the feet of the cot at the head end to elevate it. (Of course you can use books just as well, but then you have to find the ones of exactly the same thickness....)

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

A doodad, just like the thingimajig I mentioned? [Biased]

Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :

Well, similar, but the doodads go under the legs of the cot, whereas the thingimajig goes under the mattress.

Important distinction.....

I also (somewhere) have a list I made for someone else about non-medication things to do about hayfever, from when I had it really badly but was pregnant. I'll look it out and pm it, Gwai, if you think it would be helpful.

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

Some translations here doodahs and thingimajig.

Jengie

[ 28. August 2013, 18:29: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

I will look at doodads and thingamajigs, and probably rig one or the other up for tonight!

And yes, I would love the list of non-medication things to do for hayfever, if you do find it. He's still at the age where medications are usually either Don't or See Your Doctor.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Sorry to hear about the allergies - dreadful for all.

Try treating the snotty-nosed bit as a normal cold:

1. Try elevating the cot - can't harm and may help.

2. Smidgeon of vick on the back between the shoulder blades.

3. Wring out a hand-towel in hot water with a few drops of Olbas Oil added and hand in front of the open window.

4. If you own a vaporiser then use it - not necessarily with Coal Tar liquid but just to generate some steam.

Good luck.

Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :

Olbas Oil can give some children (and adults) terrible headaches - it's worth being aware of this. If so, Karvol capsules might be a more effective help.

Posted by Bullfrog. (# 11014) on :

For now, you may define "doodad" as "daddy's old Constitutional Law textbook," and "thingamajig" as "The Federalist Papers."

We'll see how this affects the gremlin's development.

ETA: OK, so perhaps both are doodads, as Gwai advises me.

[ 29. August 2013, 02:53: Message edited by: Bullfrog. ]

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

Actually Bullfrog, I think the papers are a "wotchamacallit."

My sons used to respond to being propped up as suggested already and a vaporiser, place well out of reach.

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

As of Birdie's post they were doodads because they went under the legs of the crib, and they seem to have helped. We still had to suction him, but he wasn't miserable enough to be already wide awake, so after some fury, he went back to sleep.

Posted by Kasra (# 10631) on :

New question (on re-awakened thread!)

I have a 2.5yo son. My MiL recently told me that he was undisciplined. What appears to have happened is that she took him to a wedding, where he ran around a lot. Factor in a missed nap, lots of chocolate cake and the excitement of seeing his cousins, and we have a recipe for over-excited toddler, who runs around and resists suggestions that he should sit quietly.

The above is the best that I can piece together from others at the scene -I'm too incoherent with rage at MiL (see TICTH) to have a civilized chat with her right now.

So with that background, my first question is: What makes a truly "undisciplined" two year old boy? What should I be looking for, to see if this is (as I suspect) a perfect storm of factors creating one bad situation, or a real problem?

Little one is not in regular trouble at daycare, that I'm aware of, 90% of time obeys me or his father...

And then, what could I DO to encourage little one to be even more obedient? We do time outs, sometimes with limited success, I'm not opposed to spanking but would save for really severe situations (which this isn't, IMHO) and I've tried some attempts at rewards for good behavior... what else could I try?

Thanks!
Kx

Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :

Your 2.5 year old sounds normal to me.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

Sounds normal to me, too. We used to have the problem of small children on a grandparent-induced sugar rush behaving badly at the grandparents. I think many, many parents will recognise this.

Posted by birdie (# 2173) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kasra:

Little one is not in regular trouble at daycare, that I'm aware of, 90% of time obeys me or his father...

90%????! Sounds angelic to me - want to swap?

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

Actually, I was reminiscing with a cousin recently about visits to our grandparents. Granny used to buy in supplies of luminous green fizzy limeade and a reddish fizzy drink called "Moray Cup."

As we didn't get fizzy drinks at home we used to drink bottles of the stuff, start fighting amongst ourselves and then throw up.

At this point Granny would start wringing her hands and asking what was wrong with us, while our parents tried vainly to restore order.

Thirty years later, our parents were doing exactly the same as their parents, but with less artificial colours. And although they knew exactly why we were behaving badly, when they were the aggrieved parents, they appear mystified as why our children behaved badly.

Go figure.

[Disappointed]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

Yup. Sugar rush, big occasion, tired, parents absent, granny present. Any two is often enough, three makes loud, boisterous and potentially tearful virtually certain, and I'll bet that's as far as it went.

You m-i-l probably feels terribly let down by her grandchild, but the child is, first and foremost, yours. Coping with grandparents is no less difficult than coping with a child. If in doubt, use similar strategies (eg, lots of hugs and rewards etc, when they do things right).

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

Thankfully my mother never does this, but I'm totally dreading Thanksgiving at the in-laws where my husband's grandmother who is quite old and not all there will insist on putting my daughter in front of TV all day--we don't have one at home and ration screen Very hard. I'll hardly see my daughter all vacation and she'll be misbehaving when I do. Sigh.

Posted by Kasra (# 10631) on :

I appreciate the reassurance, thank you. I'm often quite "tiger-mom" protective of my son & needed to work out whether I was overreacting. I have a hair-trigger temper, unfortunately, and was already incandescent with rage at MiL...

Just to be sure, I'm going to talk to little one's daycare teacher tonight.

Thank you again

K //less enraged now!

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

For the M-i-L, practice rolling your eyes. You're never going to win that one. I expect
Mary heard it from Joseph's mother.

For the wee one, consider boredom as a kind of ramped-up time out. For a lot of little ones, nothing is worse than boredom--they'd rather be eaten by a tiger than bored. So what I did was, wherever we went, I took care to find a good boring corner somewhere--preferably painted plain white with no knobs or signs or even a vaguely interesting baseboard. And of course away from people. Then, when LL misbehaved, I took him over to the corner and sat behind him, holding him so he was facing straight into the boring corner and had nothing to look at. Oh noes! Nothing to see, nothing to do (he was held), nothing to hear (because I wouldn't respond to any of the temper tantrum). Complete.Boredom.

We stayed there until he got over it. This was usually about two or three minutes. I'm darn sure it would have taken much longer if there had been anything at all to distract him--even a patterned wallpaper. But there wasn't, because I am an Evil Mom™.

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

Try saying to MIL how strange! he never behaves like that with me, what did you do to him? [Big Grin]

Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :

Did you find his favouritist toy which naughty Granny misplaced?

Sounds like a perfectly normal little guy to me, at least from my recollections and observations.

Posted by Kasra (# 10631) on :

LC - I want a membership to the Evil Mommy Club!

Daycare teacher reports that Little One is a perfectly normal and actually reasonably well-behaved boy at school. Phew!

Sadly, the favorite toy has not been located yet, MiL currently denying all knowledge of same (!) and she and my partner had an interesting and loud discussion of boundaries on the doorstep! However, bedtime trauma was reduced by excitement over alternate toy (replica of Daddy's grain truck which we'd been saving for Special Occasion of Good Boy but decided to break out last night given the circs) and peace is somewhat restored. I've had to forbid the hauling of soybeans/corn in the bedroom - has anyone ever trodden on a pile of soybeans in bare feet in the dark?! Don't!

Is it permitted to lock MiL in closet for 100 years?

Kx

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

Hi All,

We are once again in the throes of potty training, having already given up twice - third time lucky? The famous toddler's nursery (daycare in US terms) is being less than helpful: the first day he was there in pants he had one (dirty) accident and they put him back in nappies for the whole rest of the day. Does anyone have any experience of how nurseries usually handle this issue, or ideas of how I can encourage ours to be more cooperative?

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

When you talk to the nursery what do they say? Do they expect children not to have accidents? Do they think s/he is not ready? Do they have a one-accident-per-day policy (Would be weird, IMO) Just plain lazy? I think reading between the lines on what they say could be very helpful.

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

How old is he?

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
When you talk to the nursery what do they say? Do they expect children not to have accidents? Do they think s/he is not ready? Do they have a one-accident-per-day policy (Would be weird, IMO) Just plain lazy? I think reading between the lines on what they say could be very helpful.

They seem to have suddenly developed a "only one pair of soiled underwear" per day policy, which last time we were trying to toilet train the boy they didn't have. They've also gone from saying "We'll try and implement whatever potty-training strategy you are following at home" to essentially "you should keep him at home til he is trained", which is utterly impractical.

To be honest, I suspect I know what the problem is: the famous toddler does disgusting large sloppy poos. After several months of repeated visits to the GP, it has been concluded that there's nothing wrong with him from a medical perspective. It's just the way he is. Certain people at nursery just don't want to deal with it. To be honest, I'd rather not have to deal with it myself, but he can't be in nappies forever. (He's nearly 3).

However, he brilliantly circumvented the problem today at nursery by not having any accidents at all! Hooray! (Now for the inevitable regression...).

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the famous rachel:
To be honest, I suspect I know what the problem is: the famous toddler does disgusting large sloppy poos. After several months of repeated visits to the GP, it has been concluded that there's nothing wrong with him from a medical perspective. It's just the way he is.

Sounds like what they call 'toddler diarrhea'? Which translates as "Look, some toddlers just have softer poos than others." They apparently grow out of it by 5 or so.

My daughter had fairly soft poos, so her bottom was a delight to clean when she was in nappies. Once she started pooing on the toilet her bottom was very easy to clean, and she seemed able to get to the toilet before pooing, rather than being caught out (so although soft, it didn't just slide out, IYSWIM [Biased]

). So it's probably in the nursery workers' best interests to help get him quickly toilet trained, rather than keep having messy nappies to clean up [Big Grin]

My daughter is stubborn, so she had to decide to toilet train rather than mummy and daddy encouraging/telling her to do it. What appeared to help was her having some older friends - a couple of 6yr olds - that she played with at church. Then I harped on about them all being big boys and girls and wearing knickers, rather than being babies like her little sister and wearing nappies. After about a week of me mentioning this at every opportunity, she announced that she wanted to be a big girl with big girl knickers, so we went for it. She got it pretty much straight away, so maybe had 2 accidents in the first week, which confirmed for me that the little darling had been ready for a while, but couldn't be bothered! She was 2yrs 10 months, so your boy being just short of 3 doesn't seem late for potty training. I'd say talk about it, have potty and pants ready, and wait for him to choose to do it seems to be the best approach.

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sarkycow:
Sounds like what they call 'toddler diarrhea'? Which translates as "Look, some toddlers just have softer poos than others." They apparently grow out of it by 5 or so.to choose to do it seems to be the best approach.

Thanks Sarkycow! It's a relief to hear someone say this is normal. I've been under a certain amount of pressure from nursery to spot a food intolerance, but the GP actually said the same as you! However, not knowing any other kids with this issue (they mostly seem to be constipated!) it is difficult to know how to cope with it.

Jamie is also stubborn and unwilling to do things except in his own time. However, currently he is very keen to be in pants and very engaged with the process. We're currently averaging one accident a day - usually poo-related unfortunately. However, he generally tells me as soon as it happens, and as far as I'm concerned it's no worse than changing a nappy. Overall, I'm pretty impressed with how he's getting on, and really want to capitalise on progress this far. I'm hoping nursery don't jeopardise this!

I'm making nursery sound awful - which is a shame, as Jamie loves it there, and they're great about almost everything that doesn't involve poo, and have been very supportive during a difficult year. (The Famous Husband spent 6 months overseas, amongst other things...)

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by Keren-Happuch (# 9818) on :

KGlet1 was just over 3 and KGLet2 just under when they got out of nappies. Just depends on the child so don't feel pressurised by time/age. No advice re nursery though as that wasn't something we had to deal with.

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

My niece was wee trained very quickly but wouldn’t poo train.
She had a ‘thing’ about pooing in the toilet, she would come and demand a nappy to poo in and as soon as she was finished would want it taken off. She did eventually grow out of it….

Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :

Apparently for some kids pooing feels like a part of them falling out, which it kinda is when you think about it. Hence it's disturbing for them as they don't understand fully, and all try know is that it used to feel fine, cos the nappy held it close so it didn't drop away, and now it feels like a bit of them falling out. They do get used to it, but it takes time, lots of explanations to them, reassurance, etc.

Rachel, if he's pooing most days, is it often at a similar time? If so, could you prompt him around that time - get him to sit on the toilet and push a bit, see what happens?

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sarkycow:
Rachel, if he's pooing most days, is it often at a similar time? If so, could you prompt him around that time - get him to sit on the toilet and push a bit, see what happens?

He's not terribly regular, but seems to be getting the hang of it anyhow. Today nursery managed to forget that he is egg-intolerant, and let him eat a scoth egg. He pooed about 6 times in the course of the afternoon as a consequence, but only had one and a half accidents (the half being a case where he got to the loo but didn't wait for someone to wipe his bottom afterwards, so his pants got dirty even though he'd done the main thing right!) I have little sympathy with the nursery staff in this case! I reckon currently 95% of wees and 50% of poos are going in the potty, which I'm quite impressed with!

Hope all is well with the other sailorlets.

Rachel.

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

I hate hate hate the fall time change.

I doubt you all have any solutions--feel free, to suggest, if you do--but I think I need to share.
My son is a very scheduled little baby and changing his natural schedule is a surefire recipe for misery. (No oatmeal for breakfast? Is Outrage!) I tried to spread that extra hour out, but trying to keep him up late yesterday only provoked tears. I'll spare you the novel, but Gremlin sets his clock by when he's allowed to wake me up and nurse, he will push the clock a few minutes every day if I let him, so when mommy pushed the time back by half an hour? Major Anxiety Attacks, Batman! The fact that he didn't spend most of that half an hour screaming is as much a testament to a rare stoic effort on his part as it is to my talking to him almost constantly from my bed (shhh shhh, time to sleep. No, not yet. Shhh, soon. Try to sleep. Shhh... ad nauseam.) So of course like clockwork he also wakes up half an hour early two and a half hours after he nursed. I absolutely refuse to get up before 5:30am unless there's a fire involved, and even a soothing mommy could only keep him from infant misery for 15 minutes that time. Poor thing basically cries for 15 minutes then, and yet if I get up he'll do it every single day...

I'm not assuming it'll be better for days either. Poor pudgy-cheeked fellow has gotten SOOO much better at sleeping, and then life throws him this sort of stupidity. It's not major, life-changing, or important, but it's totally unfair.

[ 04. November 2013, 14:44: Message edited by: Gwai ]

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

Hi Gwai,

Sorry - I'm no help on the time-change issue. The Famous Toddler never converts to summer time, so returning to GMT makes things easier for us, as it means he at least occasionally goes to sleep at a reasonable time.

Update from the potty-training front: I think he is basically there. He managed very nearly a week (six and three quarter days) without any accidents, and then it all fell apart for an afternoon, but now things are back on track. We'd promised him a special gift, something he really wanted, for managing a week, and it felt churlish to prohibit this because of that one afternoon, so we have bought him the object of his desires.

As encouragement to anyone else in a similar situation: this time round it took less than a fortnight for things to be approximately under control, and dealing with slightly sloppy poos is now much easier than it was when he was in nappies. He's also now very quick to tell us when he does have an accident, so it's usually no trouble to sort him out As far as I can tell, sorting out potty training is first and foremost a matter of choosing the right time for your child (and in our case, not letting nursery screw things up). This comes with all the usual caveats about things being likely to go horribly wrong again at any moment, of course.

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :

On the time change -- for my kids, the adjustment took about a week, and I never did figure out anything to make it easier.

One thing I might have tried, if I'd known as much then as I do now about daylight, and circadian rhythms, and seasonal affective disorder, and related things, is getting them outside during daylight as much as possible during the days after the time change. Even when it's cloudy, being outside in daylight has an effect. It might not work with babies, but, next year, when you go through this again, it might be worth a try.

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

In response to Gwai's question on another thread about toddlers sleeping through the night.

The Dafling used to sleep between 8pm and 5am - clearly all down to our brilliant parenting. Then she started teething, about a year ago. Ever since she has woken up between about 11pm and 2am and needs to be either settled or brought into bed with mum or dad. Settling has to be repeated an hour or two later, so she usually shares the bed.
A couple of nights ago she managed to get up and wander into the corridor before letting us know she'd woken up.

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

That's rather the way Gremlin has been sleeping too except for the not in our bed part, because if we let that sweet limpet sleep in our bed on a regular basis, he'd be in Kindergarten long before we got him out.

He was doing a little better, but our room is super-cold right now as the heaters are not working reliably, so I think that's disrupting his sleep. (I seem to be the only person in this family who can just sleep peacefully under a blanket without curling up it in or throwing it off the bed etc.)

We're also travelling for Thanksgiving, something like 10 hours over two days, so I'm seriously hoping that all his car-screaming has been related to nausea. As non-car owners, we almost never put him in a car, and this may be interesting if he screams most of the trip...

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

(Left unsaid, but assumed that if Gremlin's problems relate to nausea then we can solve them with an over the counter solution.)

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

The Dafling gets travel sick too. Her mother swears by travel bands. You can get them in toddler size.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
He was doing a little better, but our room is super-cold right now as the heaters are not working reliably, so I think that's disrupting his sleep. (I seem to be the only person in this family who can just sleep peacefully under a blanket without curling up it in or throwing it off the bed etc.)

Have you tried a blanket sleeper? Our girls slept in those until they were about six.

Moo

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:

quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
He was doing a little better, but our room is super-cold right now as the heaters are not working reliably, so I think that's disrupting his sleep. (I seem to be the only person in this family who can just sleep peacefully under a blanket without curling up it in or throwing it off the bed etc.)
Have you tried a blanket sleeper? Our girls slept in those until they were about six.

Moo

Interesting that we share a country, but I have never heard them called that. However, we do have those, and he does usually sleep in them. It was just too cold even for them. Seriously, it was lower 50s at best in that room when the door was shut. I am very warm-natured, and I was wearing two pairs of pajamas and still waking up with cramps in my legs from curling up into a ball so tightly. However, they have now fixed the heaters, and since then Gremlin has been sleeping much better. Thanks [Smile]

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
However, they have now fixed the heaters, and since then Gremlin has been sleeping much better. Thanks

If the problem occurs again, you might want to consider a baby sleeping bag:
something like this

Gremlin could wear his "blanket sleeper" inside a sleeping bag and then he would be well insulated and unable to kick off the covers and get chilly. My son also found the feeling of being surrounded by the sleeping bag very comforting so they may be helpful in general if Gremlin is a clingy little person. They are very common in the UK these days, and the famous preschooler used them until about 3 months ago, but I am not sure if they are common in the US. (I had assumed that when American people referred to a blanket sleeper, this was roughly what they meant, but it seems I was mistaken.)

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Yes, the bags work well.

But I LOVE the idea that the company on the link you put in think they invented them.

We used for our own (born 1994) as second nature because they'd been used for me (1950s vintage) and were made from a pattern used by nanny since the 1930s...

Fact is, if the house is cold you dress accordingly, whether up and moving about or in bed.

Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :

My 3yr old used to get very cold as a baby, so in the winter time she wore to go to bed, a sleepsuit (a non-fleecy version of the blanket sleeper linked to by Moo), a fleecy sleepsuit (blanket sleeper) and a 3 tog sleeping bag! That is currently what my 1 yr old is wearing, as she also gets very cold.

Mind you, they were both winter babies, so for the first 4 months they probably spent at least a third of the nights in our bed, as they couldn't retain body heat, even clothed like that and then wrapped in blankets, with a hot water bottle [Eek!]

Now the 3yr old is in a bed she wears proper pyjamas and fluffy bed socks, and has a nice thick duvet. She seems much more able to keep warm, so I'm hopeful for the baby. I was beginning to think that I'd be needing to buy sleeping bags until middle childhood!

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

quote:
But I LOVE the idea that the company on the link you put in think they invented them.

I thought the same when I looked at the link last night. I made them from quilted fabric for each of my three sons back in the dim dark ages of the 1970s. They could be bought then, made from a heavy knit material which took days to dry. They were fastened with buttons which came undone easily, thus negating their purpose.

I made mine from quilted material and used a zipper with the pull for the zip hidden under a flap. I also added sleeves to mine. No pattern, just cut out to what looked right. The quilting was warm and dried quickly.

Posted by Martha (# 185) on :

Any advice on toddler bedwetting? T is 3 and is fine on the potty during the day, but wakes up soaked every morning. We had him in a diaper overnight for several months, but it was making him sore and I was worried he would never get the idea of staying dry overnight. Generally he doesn't seem to be woken up by being wet. We have tried getting him to pee just before we go to bed, and last night he woke up at 4am and went on the potty, but his bed was still wet in the morning. I've been doing weeks of washing sheets and we don't really know what else to try!

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Tincture of time, I'm afraid. We put a thick towel under LL until he got the hang of it, so I wouldn't have to change everything all the time. But some kids don't stay reliably dry at night until 5 or so. You can ask the doctor, but I think it's mainly a family thing--if your relatives were all late at staying dry, he'll likely be the same.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

Let me echo Lamb Chopped here. It took about a year between the time my boy was reliably dry in the day and when he was dry at night.

Our strategy, for what it's worth, was to tell him that when he went three days in a row with a dry nappy in the morning, he could go without. Two consecutive accidents and he was back in nappies at night again.

Top tip - make his bed, then put down an old plastic shower curtain, then make his bed again. If he has an accident, remove the wet bedding and shower curtain, and he can go straight back to sleep with the minimum of nighttime messing about.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

I'd add to restrict drinks from tea-time onwards and make it milk for preference.

We found this helped, water produced more accidents, and squash or juice - floods [Eek!]

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

Gwai, one more thing that helps to keep a child warm is to cover his head. The body loses a lot of heat that way.

Moo

Posted by Sarkycow (# 1012) on :

I don't think society looks well on putting a child's head under the duvet Moo. Even if you claim it's cos they get really cold...

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

I think she meant the child should wear a hat or night cap? IME, in a very cold house a night cap is vital - not especially fetching but still [Smile]

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I think she meant the child should wear a hat or night cap? IME, in a very cold house a night cap is vital - not especially fetching but still

Yes, that's what I meant.

Moo

Posted by guinness girl (# 4391) on :

Hello all. I've come in search of some advice. the Half-Pint has just turned three and has recently been having some vivid dreams, which wake him up thinking about food. Unfortunately, he hasn't learnt much about dreams and isn't yet able to distinguish them from reality at all.

The upshot of this is that he's coming into our bedroom in the middle of the night, upset and asking for sandwiches/pancakes etc, but when we try to tell him they aren't real and he needs to go back to bed, he kicks off, shouting, crying and even getting violent. It takes ten minutes at least to calm him down to the point where he can take in what we're saying and go back to bed.

Does anyone have any advice about ways we could deal with it better, or any similar experiences?

Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :

I think I'd offer him plain carbs of some kind, like digestive biscuits, because it sounds like he might be hungry? Or a regular supper before bed,like milk and biscuits. My children have all been vivid dreamers. One is diabetic and regularly needed carbs in the night if his blood sugars went low. The dentist worried about his teeth but it's been fine, he'd swish some water round his mouth before going back to sleep.
Good luck.

Posted by chive (# 208) on :

My best mate has a wee boy who'll be two next month. He's very clever and bright (he knows all his letters and numbers which impresses me and can read simple words). He loves Thomas and cars and all the normal wee boy things.

However, every time he goes to bed at night or for a nap he chews his bed. His cot looks like it has been attacked by a chipmunk and every day bits of wood have to be removed from his cot and the floor surrounding it. Last night we could hear him saying 'mess, wood, eat' over the baby monitor.

Any suggestions as to how to prevent bed eating?

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :

quote:
Originally posted by chive:
However, every time he goes to bed at night or for a nap he chews his bed. His cot looks like it has been attacked by a chipmunk and every day bits of wood have to be removed from his cot and the floor surrounding it. Last night we could hear him saying 'mess, wood, eat' over the baby monitor.

Any suggestions as to how to prevent bed eating?

chive, obviously I don't know the child, am not a doctor (well I am, but not a medical doctor), and this is not medical advice etc etc, but there is a medical condition called pica which is characterised by the eating of objects of non-nutritive value. Although they are not sure exactly what causes it, often it seems to be related to iron or zinc deficiency, so it might be worth your friend speaking to the GP or health visitor to see about a referral to check for that. In some kids, just sorting out the deficiency seems to be enough to stop the random eating of bizarre stuff.

Posted by Nightlamp (# 266) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
Gwai, one more thing that helps to keep a child warm is to cover his head. The body loses a lot of heat that way.

Moo

Oddly enough that belief is a result of
poor science

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Some cribs have plastic doohickeys you can slide right over the rails, probably to prevent that very kind of thing. Probably would have to google for it, though. Alternately (though it's a lot of work), sew on tough fabric coverings.

Is he teething?

[ 18. February 2014, 21:31: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Nightlamp:

quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
Gwai, one more thing that helps to keep a child warm is to cover his head. The body loses a lot of heat that way.

Moo
Oddly enough that belief is a result of
poor science

I did not say that the body loses more heat from the head than any other body part. I simply said that the body loses a lot of heat if the head is uncovered. Twenty-one winters in New Hampshire convinced me of the truth of this.

Moo

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

Another nephew arrived by caesarian this morning - S & R were told they couldn't have any more but nature decided otherwise. It would have helped if R hadn't been in another hospital with his second diabetic hypo of recent days whilst S was being delivered of the baby!

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

Congratulations, Uncle Wodders! [Smile]

Posted by sophs (# 2296) on :

Can I bump this thread?

Baby is very awkward at 4am onwards every night (all 12 of them), she wants to nurse and be cuddled or sleep right next to me for around 5 hours. I wish I could just co-sleep with her as that's what she wants but I take medication so it's not an option.

Is there anything I can do to settle her so we can get some sleep? We mix feed so I'm wondering about giving her formula instead of bf so she's not hungry, I've tried settling her and then moving her in her sleep, but she knows!

Any ideas?

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Either cut up an old nightdress or wear a piece of flannelette next to your skin for a day, then use it to make a pillowslip.

Put pillow 'dressed' in the thing that smells of mum into the cot with the baby and she should settle.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

We put LL in a bassinet with net walls right next to my side of the bed at a slightly lower level, and then I more or less lay down and put my arm down next to him until it was too uncomfortable to continue in that position. Then it was I who moved, not him who got moved. And he could still smell me, and if he started to wake I knew it and was able to pat him back to sleep before he got fully awake.

Another thing we did when he was slightly older was to strap him into his carseat and set it between the two of us in the bed. Again, no danger of being rolled over upon ('cause you'd know it, ouch!) and we made sure the carseat couldn't topple. No blankets, of course--a warm sleep outfit instead. Uncomfortable for us a bit, but great for him when he was sick and clingy.

Oh, you probably DON'T want to put a pillow or any other bedding in with baby while you're all asleep, because of the sudden infant death risk. But I've put a worn nightgown of mine down as a sheet on his crib, so he could get the smell and not be at risk for suffocation.

[ 21. September 2014, 21:19: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :

I believe it is possible to buy co-sleeping cradle mattresses that have raised rims on so you can have them in bed with you but you can't roll into them.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I saw something like this in the department store yesterday! Target, I believe.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

Mine would sleep cuddled up to me, but wake for Mrs Cniht, because she smelled too appetizing. If baby was actually hungry, I was no use, but when they just wanted comfort, I was fine.

So tell Mr. Sophs that his new name is "pillow"?

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Depends i suppose on what kind of sleeper he is. Mr Lamb always slept so deep and had such a tendency to use other people (namely me) as a pillow that I figured, naw, let's not go there. Until the kid was big and loud enough to protest forcefully. [Snigger]

about age two.

[ 22. September 2014, 02:54: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on :

I'm sure an actual parent will know this but isn't there something bad about letting babies sleep in their car seats if not in a car? Something about the position of the neck/head or something?

Lily Pad quickly exits not really knowing but not wanting Sophs to take this advice without a caution...

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

Hia Sophs,

The cot for beside the bed is a co-sleeper cot. Here's an example. We never had one, but I heard good things from those who do.

The famous baby was a really bad sleeper, and wanting to come into our bed at around 5 am for a few hours was on the (long) list of nighttime problems. I was lucky, in that we could do this, although it left me achy as I have an injured shoulder which didn't take well to sleeping round an infant. I don't have any brilliant suggestions, I'm afraid, so this post is just to say hang in there!

Rachel.

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :

Have you thought of a Heartbeat (or Back-to-sleep) Bear like these

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

Those little bears are adorable - I'm feeling sleepy just looking at them ... [Smile]

arctophilic piglet

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

Just thought of another sleep-related trick which surprised me when I learnt it but which certainly worked for us on occaision: white noise.

The famous baby in his non-sleeping phase could be soothed a surprising amount by the sound of my hair-dryer, which we quickly substituted with a CD of fan noises. Apparently white noise is a reasonable substitute for what babies hear in the womb, and is hence comforting.

Rachel.

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

Love my 2 year old, B, but I swear I want to strangle him sometimes. We have a 1 month year old, and I'm working again, so I wager we have more than enough night disturbance without B needing to yell every bloody time he wakes up in the night. Sometimes we can just yell "Hush B" and he's okay, but other times--at least every other night lately--he needs to scream and won't stop screaming unless someone else stays with him. I'm sorry kid, but that's just not happening. So we have to move him to the sofa to protect his sister's sleep. But I hate having him sleep on the sofa because I'm always afraid he's going to head over the dining room or kitchen or something and start getting into things. Never has yet, but he easily could, so it's only convention that stops him. (Not like it's rules that stop him since he'd do it during the day!)

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :

Might B be having scary dreams? It's around 2 that we become more aware of what our night-time other self is up to.
A sleepy bear might help him calm down too [Smile]

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Gwai

Do you have a night light in the nursery?

Ours slept in the dark from day one: when they stayed with a relative who used a night light they were terrified by the shadows...

Just wondering.

Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :

Sophs, we have found Ewan the Dream Sheep very helpful to get The Little Miss to sleep.

The Little Mister on the other hand is a whole different ballgame and has started waking in the middle of the night and screaming the house down!

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

I've thought before that B might be having scary dreams. Of course what can one do about that! [Frown]

We don't have a nightlight. We found that when we got a light-blocking curtain it helped some with his sleep, so we have that. We leave the door open a little so we can get to him, so a little light comes in there, but not much.

On the other hand, for the first time ever when B woke up in the middle of the night and I went to him, he managed not to scream when I left. I gave all the ordinary reassurances, and I could tell he was trying to hold it together, but boy did I not expect it to work. Ironically I couldn't make a thing of praising him for being good because I couldn't go back in of course, and by morning it probably feels very distant to him, if he even remembers. (Though I did tell he'd been very good and slept well.) Still no idea how to help him through this, but perhaps he's figuring it out on his own.

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :

My youngest friend (just 2) has Classic FM very, very quietly playing in her room - ever since she was tiny it's helped smooth out any other sudden noises (like car doors shutting) in the vicinity that might have woken her. A bonus is that she has a great start to her musical awareness!

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

The famous toddler, at 2ish, went through a nightmares stage. He was articulate enough to make it clear that he was scared when he woke and his descriptions of the monsters which were scaring him helped us understand what was going on. We bought him a very large, spiky plastic dinosaur (it's over a foot long) which now "guards" the doorway to his bedroom. Every night, we give the dinosaur a list of creatures who are not allowed through the door, and tell him to do good guarding. It helps a lot.

(Plus, if a burglar ever does come in the night, I am seriously intending to pick up the dinosaur by its tail and lamp him. The thing is basically a large spiky club).

Don't know if this is worth a try. In our experience the guard needs to be something scary. A cuddly teddy won't do.

Best,
Rachel.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

My elder one went through a nightmare stage at about 2, having nightmares about the "bad man." This bad man had a black car and crashed through windows. Our son was afraid that the bad man might crash through his window when he was asleep.

It took us a while, but we eventually realised that a 4 year old friend had shown him his Batman toy, complete with Batmobile, and had told him all the things that Batman could do, including crashing through windows. Our son had misunderstood "Batman" as "bad man" and his vocabulary didn't let him explain beyond "bad man" "black car" and "window."

Once we'd worked out that the "bad man" was "Batman" we were able to reassure him, and put an end to the nightmares.

However he subsequently had more nightmares (from a story he heard at nursery) and, like the famous rachel, we provided a guard toy.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

quote:
guard dinosaur toy

Love it!

Posted by sophs (# 2296) on :

We've sorted out a plan for Elaine's nights, I feel a bit mean but it seems to work when Alec takes her into the spare room over night, and brings her into me at six when he leaves for work. I really struggle to settle her, we are assuming it's because I smell of food. I can get her to sleep if she is cuddled to me, or for very brief periods, but don't have the magic touch that my beloved has.

We have fallen in love with the caboo sling, Beloved wears her around the house to settle her and everyone who's carried her really loves it. Especially housemates fiancé and my middle sister, both of whom are ever so slightly broody! I'm currently typing two handed with her tied to my chest and it's great [Big Grin]

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :

Sophs, I don't know if it was an international thing or just local, but last week was "Wear your baby week" here.

Huia [Smile]

Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sophs:
I feel a bit mean but it seems to work

Very difficult to avoid feeling mean, but I think it might be a good idea to try to remember that if this renders you human and functional during the day, it may be doing your little girl a big favour. The person I was at the height of the sleep deprivation phase wasn't well suited to raising a child!

(Also, re: slings. We didn't use the same type as you, but did use two other brands and absolutely love them. I still occasionally carried the famous pre-schooler in one - which converted into a back carrier - until he was 3 and a half, and only stopped then because he simply no longer fit in comfortably!)

Best wishes,

Rachel.

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sophs:
I feel a bit mean but it seems to work when Alec takes her into the spare room over night, and brings her into me at six when he leaves for work.

I think it's anything but mean. She is learning that there are two people who cuddle and cherish her. She depends on you for food, but Alec can do many other things for her.

Moo

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

Madame had a very difficult pregnancy, so difficult that Dlet had to be an only child. The problems Madame had meant that she could not feed Dlet entirely on her own. I would give him 1 or 2 bottles a day, depending on Madame's milk, and tiring though that was*, did give a bond between us which few fathers have - and not interfering with Madame's bonding.

Each is different, just look for the positives in how you both care for her, and build on them.

* The little bugger would usually sleep through his 10 pm feed, but not the 2 am. Could not train him otherwise.

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :

My mother could not breastfeed me at all, so the midnight feed (and resulting nappy change) was Dad's responsibility. Hearing him talk about it, it clearly helped him bond with me but, as I usually slept throughout, I am not sure what impact it had on me [Biased]

Posted by sophs (# 2296) on :

Thanks guys!

Posted by recklessrat (# 17243) on :

Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on Christening wear...
Ratlet is being Christened next weekend, and we have a cream silk Victorian robe for her to wear. I haven't really seen it, as my in-laws have it, and are bringing it down at the weekend. They assure me it will fit, as it is huge, apparently.

The question is, what to wear with it? Does a white long sleeved vest (I think the gown is long sleeved), cream tights, and a shawl sound appropriate? Just panicking a little, as if I get this wrong, it will be a last minute rush to sort it out, and I will be stressed enough, as both sets of grandparents are staying with us!

Thanks for any advice...

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by recklessrat:

The question is, what to wear with it? Does a white long sleeved vest (I think the gown is long sleeved), cream tights, and a shawl sound appropriate?

Sounds fine, although the shawl might be too much, depending on how warm the day / your church is.

You might want to take a short-sleeved vest too, as depending on the gown, it might work better.

At least one of mine wore short-sleeved vest, nappy and silk dress.

[ 25. October 2014, 22:28: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

I gather you are holding the infant? I would not wear a shawl if you are -- draperies are hard to manage if you're also juggling an infant in a slippery and unfamiliar christening outfit.

Surely the parents and godparents do not have to wear white? I would select a Sunday dress that you are comfortable in. Contrasting colors will make the star of the performance, the infant, show up well in his/her white. And comfortable shoes!! In fact shoe selection might drive your entire outfit; anything is better that teetering up to the font in heels.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

I suspect you may have got the wrong end of the stick, BC - I assumed that Recklessrat was asking about what other clothes the baby would wear, underneath the christening robe.

I may, of course, be quite wrong ... [Smile]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Then it is far simpler. Diaper!

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

I wonder, is said robe really a dress for an older child? My daughter wore one as Victorian fancy dress aged 5 or 6. Because that would give lots of scope for clothes underneath but not necessarily full length sleeves.

Cold stone church in late October / early November requires lots of layers. A nappy alone is unlikely to be enough.

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

If it were one of our church group in November the answer is as much as posssible! incuding warm shawl

I'd have the vest and tights variations, long short/thick thin ready so that whatever the temerature of the church the babe would be warm

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

I hope it is a gown for an older child as historic christening gowns often are too small for modern babies at their baptism. There are two reasons for this, babies are in general being born larger and they are also being baptised later (due in part to decreased infant mortality). Therefore, I would have a modern alternative, rather than risk having to find something at the last minute..

As Curiosity says the gown normally have lots of space underneath except for in the arms. The result is that I would have a cardigan ready to go over in case you can only get it on without a long sleeved vest on.

As to colour, creams normally sit pretty happily with other creams. If you wanted something special look for something with gold in it. Indeed the cream gown would be set off well against autumnal colours.

Jengie

Posted by recklessrat (# 17243) on :

Thanks all for your help - much appreciated. I think I'll have the following ready so we're prepared for all eventualities:

1 x long sleeved and 1 x short sleeved white/cream vest (or maybe 2 of each...)
White/cream tights
White/cream cardi
White/cream shawl
Modern alternative dress, just in case!

Our church is pretty cool so I think she'll need layers. I am told the dress will easily fit her but I'm not really sure exactly how large it is. Unfortunately, she's teething atm so I'll need to keep a bib on her right until the last minute!!

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

When my son was christened (25 years ago) I dressed him all in white. The bishop was doing the baptisms, and he too was all in white brocade vestments. Unfortunately my son (aged about 2 months) had not had a bowel movement for three days. I was on tenterhooks, unable to rest, for the entire ceremony. I have too powerful an imagination.

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
I suspect you may have got the wrong end of the stick, BC - I assumed that Recklessrat was asking about what other clothes the baby would wear, underneath the christening robe.

I may, of course, be quite wrong ...

BC's post reminded me of the outfits that some of the mums have worn to christenings at the church I attend - including a fuschia-pink tutu-style dress with matching sparkly vertigo-inducing platform shoes.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

That sounds like a whole new busy thread: fashion critique of the congregation. (Lo-rider jeans? Really?)

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :

quote:
Originally posted by daisydaisy:
...a fuschia-pink tutu-style dress with matching sparkly vertigo-inducing platform shoes.

Do you think I can buy that outfit online?

[Roll Eyes]

Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :

You'd look great [Big Grin]

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :

Some people wear their very best dresses to christenings...which might perhaps be more suited to a night out? Low cut necklines, short skirts...

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Agree with that last comment: our most recent baptism saw guests dressed as if for a nightclub - and all shivering like frightened whippets because it was a good 6-7 degrees colder in church than outside - much mirth among the choir (thermals October-April for most of us).

RR: expect the Christening robe to have an underdress but I'd advise you source a white babygro and put the infant in that underneath.

Your own outfit? Something that won't be ruined if the infant decides to up-chuck on you - better safe than sorry IME [Biased]

Posted by recklessrat (# 17243) on :

quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

RR: expect the Christening robe to have an underdress but I'd advise you source a white babygro and put the infant in that underneath.

Your own outfit? Something that won't be ruined if the infant decides to up-chuck on you - better safe than sorry IME

Good advice! Especially as she is just starting solids and her digestive system is not as err...reliable as it was...

Posted by sophs (# 2296) on :

How often do little ones need to feed?

On the advice of the lactation consultant and health visitor I'm not feeding baby on demand, but waiting until she's actually hungry. She just plays with the bottle/boob and spends hours sat there using me as a dummy, which is frustrating. The problem is, she can easily go for 5 hours without a feed, and is only having about 8oz of formula at night. She's seven weeks old and has dropped a percentile, so I'm a little worried she's not eating enough. Any advice?

Posted by Zacchaeus (# 14454) on :

for ours the HV said, during the day, don't let them go over 4 hours without feeding

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

My first did not have enough interest in eating, so we did have to push her to eat enough to make sure she was healthy. Most children will do just fine feeding on demand though, and a percentile drop can happen completely normally. I might encourage her to eat a little more, but I wouldn't worry yet. (As if one can not worry.)

Posted by welsh dragon (# 3249) on :

Our first child gained weight slowly but attached himself to feed for hours, I remember evening feeds 5 hours long. I think it is called cluster feeding and it can build up milk supply. It was so worrying as a new mum when he dropped a centile or 2, but supply improved and then he gained centiles again.

When we had the same midwife for our second child, she remembered our first child gaining weight only rather slowly, and was surprised then to meet a tall and well built 4 year old with a very outgoing manner. It didn't seem to have done him much long lasting harm.

I found Mumsnet good for breastfeeding support.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

My daughter was in the tenth percentile for weight and the ninetieth for height -- a long thin noodle of a baby. She stayed that way no matter how much we fed her. Today she is a tall thin woman. Sometimes no amount of nurture will change the nature.

Posted by recklessrat (# 17243) on :

quote:
Originally posted by recklessrat:
Thanks all for your help - much appreciated. I think I'll have the following ready so we're prepared for all eventualities:

1 x long sleeved and 1 x short sleeved white/cream vest (or maybe 2 of each...)
White/cream tights
White/cream cardi
White/cream shawl
Modern alternative dress, just in case!

Our church is pretty cool so I think she'll need layers. I am told the dress will easily fit her but I'm not really sure exactly how large it is. Unfortunately, she's teething atm so I'll need to keep a bib on her right until the last minute!!

Ratlet was successfully Christened on Saturday, wearing the Victorian robe (a perfect fit!), a cardi, a short sleeved vest, tights and a headband. No change of clothes was needed in the end, but I was pleased to be well prepared! The ceremony was great, though she did grizzle throughout, poor thing. Think she got a bit tired. She had a sleep at the reception and was happy for the rest of the day.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Sophs

The cherub is actually in a percentile? Good enough.

Ours never made the bottom line. They were perfectly healthy, just small.

FYI in the late 80s (I think, could have been '90) the UK height/weight charts were altered to "bring them up to date" - in other words it was thought they should reflect that people in the UK since then are better nourished than when the first lot were laid down (I think during the 1940s).

However, we were told by the children's paediatrician that they upped the heights by 5% and the weights by 10% or more so if you have a child who is naturally slender you're stuffed.

As I said, ours never made a weight percentile (height was a different matter): both are now 20, very healthy, play representative sport, are 6 foot tall and neither has yet broken the 60kg mark.

Ask your mother and m-in-l what you were like for weight when you were small - I suspect you'll find you weren't huge.

Posted by sophs (# 2296) on :

Well, she's dropped another percentile but is thriving in every other way. Smiling, alert, grabbing things, holding onto fingers and hands, pushing down and standing, rolling onto her side...she just still won't eat! Yesterday she drank about 12oz in total...

I've switched to formula full time to monitor exactly what she's drinking and will be talking tot the doctor when she goes to her 8week check tomorrow.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

my son did this. turned out to be an almighty case of reflux. fixed with nexium, thank God.

Posted by sophs (# 2296) on :

We've ruled out all of the obvious things, and had it confirmed that she's perfectly healthy as far as the doctor can tell. Switching on to formula meant we could say with certainty that she drank 15oz in 24 hours yesterday, and it looks like today won't be much better. 6oz since 03:00.

Feeding her is a battle. She has been refusing the bottle but wanting a dummy, which we really confuses us. We have gradually introduced more bottles, so she's not confused, has an excellent latch and suck when she wants to drink but is so lazy. I so upset, frustrated and worried. I love her so, so much, and would do anything to help her! Infacol, special bottles...I'm almost hoping she doesn't move up on the curve and we get a fast track paediatric referral.

Most of the time I just feel like crying!

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :

Sophs,

Apparently I was similar as a baby. I refused to eat more than an eighth of a Weetabix at any one meal. My mother took me to the baby clinic every week until the doctor told her to stop wasting his time with a perfectly healthy baby! I was gaining weight steadily, just very, very slowly. ( Unfortunately that is no longer the case and I really must get back to Weight Watchers [Frown]

)

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

If it makes you feel better, my daughter the noodle was the same. In high school she joined the crew team. She was strong enough to crack walnuts with her thighs. She is now a captain in the US Army, in an MP battallion, a female of such remorseless power and strength that she terrifies everybody.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

My daughter fed well enough, but then vomitted the lot back up, and fell steadily through the centiles. It took months before any medical person would take us seriously, because she was otherwise well, bright, hitting her milestones of sitting up, rolling over etc bang on time. She was 8 months old before she saw a hospital pediatrician, by which time she'd gone from the 75th centile at birth to the 4th centile.

I was massively stressed out at the time, but once we were in the hospital system, all the hospital professionals were brilliant.

One mistake we made was that when she was about 4 years old, and back over the 50th centile, we kept feeding her the enriched diet till we ended up with a distinctly tubby 8 year old. But she's 18 now and just perfect!

Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :

It sounds as if she just isn't a big eater - not every child is the same. Charts are all very well but someone has be be above & below them - we are not all exactly the same. I sometimes wish the "professionals" would look at the child, not the chart, since she doesn't sound as if she isn't getting enough to eat.
I used to stroke the cheek of mine (gently in a downward movement) which would make them suck.

Posted by Sarasa (# 12271) on :

My son was the same, didn't eat a lot, wasn't anywhere on the percentile charts etc etc. We eneded up having to take him to the hospital, where someone saw my husband, (5' 10" , 9st) and decided the child was just following in his footsteps. He's now 26 and not nearly as thin as my still skinny husband, but he survived. As long as she is thriving in other ways I'd try not to worry too much.

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :

Er, *some* professionals, please! Not all of them (us) look only at the chart and not the child (sigh, soapbox moment).

As one of the professionals (I'm a health visitor by background, and looks like I will be returning to that for a while in the near future) I always used to tell parents to try not to get obsessed with the charts, that they're useful to give us a rough idea of what might be going on but it's not the be-all-and-end-all, birth centile is more an indication of the mother's health in pregnancy and the baby usually doesn't stay there, look at their happy health baby not the dot on the chart, etc etc, and then I had my own baby and all of a sudden I was TOTALLY OBSESSED with them. I think it might be because the weight is what gets done most often, that's why it's so easy to get really caught up with every tiny little blip on the line. In all my years health visiting, I think I have only ever seen 1 (count him - one!) baby who stayed on the same line from birth all the way through to a year. Every time he came to clinic for a weight I used to chart it and then have to double and triple check, because staying on the same line for that long was so unusual I was sure I'd got it wrong. And when I've told other health visitors about him they've all said things along the lines of "wow, I've never known that".

Sophs already knows this as we've had this conversation elsewhere, but from 3 weeks till nearly 5 months the Elf Lass dropped below the 0.4th (ie bottom) centile and although she did (apart from one occasion) put on weight every time, it was always just a couple of ounces, never much more. I was mixed feeding her, giving her breast for as long as she wanted and then giving the amount of formula that the paediatricians said they would be giving a fully formula-fed baby of that weight, and she was still hardly putting on anything. Just before 5 months it was like her body finally got it and she has been packing on the weight ever since. She was referred to the paediatrician as being below the 0.4th centile is a referral criteria, but he just said that although while her weight was so low he had to keep her on his books, he wasn't remotely worried about her as she was clearly doing everything else she should be for her age and stage, and so just needed to keep a 'benign oversight' (his words). And, like most other babies, she has got there in the end - in effect, if you plot her weights from birth to about 7 months, whilst the chart shows a quick weight gain in the beginning and then starting to slow down/plateau, she just did it the other way round.

All this to say, if your baby is generally healthy and happy and putting on a bit, and doing all the things she should be for her age and stage, then looking at the chart is not the be-all-and-end-all. I do think you're doing the right thing (and I'm glad it's being taken seriously) in getting them to look at the practical things around her feeding (the taking ages to drink a little, playing with the teat/nipple etc, as well as the amounts of milk she is or isn't taking). I know it's easy for me to say this, as it's not my baby and so I won't be worrying in the same way, but don't forget to also look at her global development - all the things she's doing apart from messing about with feeding - and see how well she's doing.

[X-post - 1st sentence was in response to The Kat in the Hat's post]

[ 08. November 2014, 15:18: Message edited by: Jack the Lass ]

Posted by The Kat in the Hat (# 2557) on :

You are right JtL, I should have said some professionals rather than possibly implying all. It does seem rare though that they find the time to consider family features, and I guess they tend to err on the side of caution.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

I suspect professionals can't win.

Our problem with my daughter was that they were looking at the child (bright, alert, hitting all her milestones) and not the charts. The bigger problem was that my GP thought I had PND and was over-estimating how much she was vomitting.

Once she'd had the barium swallow which proved she had a severe gastro-oesephagal reflux, the paediatrician said he was astonished she'd reached 8 months without ending up in hospital, and there was a wee investigation as to how they'd failed to diagnose her for so long.

But in fairness to the GP, she was seeing an exhausted, raddled looking, weepy mother with a bright and alert baby, so you can see why she thought the problem was with my mental health, rather than my daughter's physical health.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

We were just as lucky (NOT) in the other direction. LL was in 3rd percentile and dropping, vomiting up everything he ate, and the pediatrician wouldn't take it seriously (first time mother, yo) until he reached age one and suddenly an alarm went off. We had a barium swallow and it didn't show the problem (barium swallows don't always, sometimes you have to scope 'em). So he insisted on everything from EEG testing to karyotyping, told me he was expecting agenesis of part of the brain or a similarly horrid uncurable, and basically we had the six months from hell. Checked everything but GI (since, of course, the barium swallow was infallible, and four generation history of GERD was ignored). Mad at me for wanting a GI referral anyway. Finally gave in after six months and the GI specialist's NURSE diagnosed it correctly over the freaking PHONE.

Grrrrrr hisssssss.

But it was in fact reflux, with massively painful esophagus as a result (they showed us the pix). No wonder the poor child didn't want to eat, and couldn't keep stuff down.

The proper meds, and it all went away. Thank God.

[ 09. November 2014, 18:51: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

There are great variations in rates of growth, and there appears to be a genetic factor.

In my family, the average weight at one year is sixteen pounds. Our babies grow more slowly than average the first year or two, and more quickly in the next few.

My older daughter weighed eleven pounds when she was five months old. When she was three she was in the fifth percentile for height and the third for weight.

Her adult height is 5'5", and her weight is in the normal range.

Moo

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

My first child put on over a pound practically every week for the first six months after birth where he weighed 6.5 pounds.

People would not believe his weight at six montgs till they held him. However, he was very long, over 24" at birth. He is now 6'5" tall as an adult.

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :

JtL - I'm sure I've said this before, but I wish all Health Visitors were like you.

Interesting, NEQ, I also had the 'you must be depressed' response to 'my baby is puking too much'. (insert rant here about waiting an hour and a half in a stuffy waiting room, covered in a baby who has puked nine times in that time, just to be told 'you must be depressed') Eventually met a GP who said 'try cutting out dairy' (baby was mostly breastfed, and entirely from that point onwards) and it made a huge difference.

The sad thing is, for the people I know who were depressed, the support was non existant...

Hope things improve with you Sophs.

Posted by sophs (# 2296) on :

I'm very lucky that the GP I saw for Elaine's 8 week check was the one who deals with me so didn't think I was exaggerating how much she was drinking. We have now changed bottles and are exclusively formula feeding went from 13oz in a day to 25oz, which is a pretty massive leap instead of battling for hours to get 4oz down her it's taking less than half an hour, which is awesome. We are having her weighed today so that should tell us!

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

So please to see you sounding happier.

Things in paediatrics don't change much really: in the early 1950s, after months of tests and in-hospital observation at Great Ormond Street, my parents were given the all-clear about me with the immortal words "Some people give birth to a potential policeman, other to a jockey - you've got a jockey."

No, I haven't pursued a career on the gee-gees.

Posted by Beethoven (# 114) on :

Op 1 was around the 75th centile at birth; over the next few weeks dropped to the 7th, despite feeding well. For all the stress caused by an anxious HV, she never gained weight quickly. Thirteen years on, she's still around the 7th centile. If I'd known then what I know now, I would not have stressed about her weight At All! [Biased]

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0