Thread: Classic Hollywood Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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I didn't want to de-rail the book thread with musings about ancient films and long dead film stars, having started going off the rails with the wonderful Prisoner of Zenda, starring Ronald Coleman, who performed one of the best bantering sword fights in the history of cinema with Douglas Fairbanks Jr..
One of Ronald Coleman's co-stars was a young David Niven - one of my very favourite stars of the era. He was the best thing about the Guns of Navarone (among some very good actors) and A Matter of Life and Death is one of my all time favourite films.
Any other happy memories of old time Hollywood?
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on
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Pedant mode on - A Matter of Life and Death is nothing to do with classic Hollywood.
The (depressingly) small legion of Powell and Pressburger anoraks will point out the whole point about P&P was how far *ahead* they were of Hollywood on very little budget and strong tea.
I've been tempted for some time to start a P&P thread to really let rip on their greatness. Some other time, perhaps...
In addition, I'm not sure The Guns of Navarone counts either - Columbia did the distribution but it was a mix of Greek locations and Shepperton Studios, with Gregory Peck thrown in to get a largely British cast green lit for an American audience. No argument about where most of the money came from though!
Anyway, classic Hollywood is a worthy topic in its own right. Personally as a sixth former I used The Moon's A Balloon as a guide to what I ought to track down and watch!
Incidentally, readers of The Moon's A Balloon may remember Niven's disreputable army friend Trubshawe from pre-war days in Malta with the Highland Light Infantry. He has a cameo in the Guns of Navarone...
My favourite pre-war film is probably the remake of the Dawn Patrol with Errol Flynn, Basil Rathbone and David Niven. Ok, Califiornia doesn't look terribly like France, but the plots good.
Top trivia fact is that the aerial scenes were reused from the previous version of the film.
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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wasn't Peter Carter's (the David Niven character in A Matter of Life and Death) co-pilot called Trubshawe? Might this, perhaps, have been a name that Niven slipped in?
As you know, I'd be happy to exchange admiration of P&P with you until the cows come home. On a Dr Who thread a couple of years ago I speculated about the possible influence of Roger Livesey's Dr Reeves in AMOLAD - not a Dr Who fan myself but that scene where we first meet him, with the camera obscura, seems to be a clear model for the Tardis.
But back to Hollywood...
[ 24. February 2015, 15:24: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
wasn't Peter Carter's (the David Niven character in A Matter of Life and Death) co-pilot called Trubshawe? Might this, perhaps, have been a name that Niven slipped in?
He was. And, whilst obviously I don't *know*, I've always assumed that's exactly what Niven did.
What's slightly more eerie is the degree to which Robert Coote, as F/O Bob Trubshawe, looks and sounds like the real Michael Trubshawe....
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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By "Classic Hollywood", can we interpret this very very widely to mean ANY old films - especially pre-WW2? Or even, 40's and early 50's?
I have a wide collection of WW2 films (such as "A town called Alice", "Ice Cold in Alex" etc etc). I also have huge quantities of Laurel and Hardy, Buster Keaton and W.C. Fields films. And don't get me started on Ealing Comedies....
I must admit that I don't have much of films with David Niven - a hole that I really ought to fill. "The Moon's a Balloon" was one of my favourite books when I was growing up.
Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
By "Classic Hollywood", can we interpret this very very widely to mean ANY old films - especially pre-WW2? Or even, 40's and early 50's?
I would assume so, myself. Though I'm also happy to post about older movies I see over on the film thread.
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
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I subscribe to "Classic Images" magazine and they tend to allow movies into the 50s.
Also, although he has stopped issuing new ones, Leonard Maltin's Classic Movie Guide (2d edition) goes all the way up to 1965. It seems to me that that is a fair bracket. Maltin is very well informed on movies and if he can stomach calling a 1965 movie "classic" then I guess I can too.
Just the other night, I watched The Greene Murder Case (1929) with William Powell as Philo Vance. The copy was less than pristine, but I am use to that. The events focus around mysterious happenings in the Greene mansion where, because of the terms of the will of the long-dead family patriarch, they all have to continue to live for x number of years to get their inheritance.
What I find interesting about the film is an opening shot (repeated periodically during the film) of the house. It is shot from a high but static angle looking down at the rooftop of the house. It looks like a model, but if it was a model I would expect some camera movement. The fact that it is always the same set angle makes me wonder if it is, in fact, a full size house shot from the rooftop of a taller nearby building.
Wikipedia incorrectly calls it William Powell's first outing as Vance. In fact, his first outing was The Canary Murder Case (also 1929, and specifically referenced in Greene). That was originally filmed as a silent film and then they decided to make it a talkie. However, Louise Brooks, who played the Canary, refused to come back to do the sound sequences because she was headed off to Germany (to shoot the classic silent Pandora's Box and Diary of a Lost Girl). Brooks is still seen in the film, but her dialogue is dubbed. I suspect there is also a body-double stand-in for some scenes because the head of the Canary is frequently off camera during conversations.
[Edit for typo: "am use" instead of "amused"]
[ 24. February 2015, 22:10: Message edited by: Hedgehog ]
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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Hmmm...off the top of my head:
--Key Largo (and anything else with Bogart and Bacall).
--The Black Shield Of Falworth.
--The Black Orchid.
--The Scarlet Pimpernel. With Leslie Howard, I think.
--Cheaper By The Dozen.
--The Ghost And Mrs. Muir.
--Little Princess.
--It Happened One Night.
--Sally And St. Anne.
--The Maltese Falcon.
--The Wizard Of Oz.
--Anything with Maureen O'Hara and John Wayne.
--Swashbuckling films (especially with the Fairbankses and Errol Flynn).
Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on
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The two movies I remember being blown away by in my youth were Les Enfants du Paradis with Jean-Louis Barrault and Arletty, among others, and Quai des Brumes with Jean Gabin.
The former I was able to re-view last year when it was screened on TV. I wondered whether it would have the same charm sufficient to keep me awake till the small hours – I needn't have worried. I was puzzled that it's always referred to in English as "Children of Paradise' when a more accurate translation would be 'Children of the Gods' or the gallery – the common folk in the cheapest seats who might make or break an actor's reputation.
As for the Gabin, I remember being dismayed to hear that it was being taken out of circulation because it was being remade in Hollywood, and thinking what a travesty that was likely to be. Of course that happens all the time now.
Had to put in a word for the French – and what about Sweden and Wild Strawberries (among others) of Ingmar Bergman?
GG
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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Apologies for the misleading thread title - I was just trying to think of a snappy title that indicated older films, while I was also thinking about David Niven. So I really did mean any film of that era.
So, Oscar the Grouch, please get started on Ealing comedies - I love them too, especially Passport to Pimlico.
And, Golden Key, you're a movie goer after my own heart! The Black Shield of Falworth is actually quite a good script, though I don't think Tony Curtis was quite right for the lead.
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on
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Well, we can get from David Niven to Ealing comedies in one of two obvious ways, via Stanley Holloway in The Way Ahead to Passport to Pimlico, The Lavender Hill Mob, and the Titfield Thunderbolt or, to continue the tangent on the pleasing cameo career of Niven's army partner in crime, via Trubshawe to the Titfield Thunderbolt.
Maybe Niven was the Kevin Bacon of his day? 6-degrees-of-David-Niven.
Could catch on.
Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on
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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Maybe Niven was the Kevin Bacon of his day? 6-degrees-of-David-Niven.
There must be a really scary connection that could be made from Harry Secombe appearing in a movie with Edward G Robinson...
AG
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Well, we can get from David Niven to Ealing comedies in one of two obvious ways, via Stanley Holloway in The Way Ahead to Passport to Pimlico, The Lavender Hill Mob, and the Titfield Thunderbolt or, to continue the tangent on the pleasing cameo career of Niven's army partner in crime, via Trubshawe to the Titfield Thunderbolt.
Maybe Niven was the Kevin Bacon of his day? 6-degrees-of-David-Niven.
Could catch on.
Hell of a cast list in The Way Ahead. Makes all sorts of connections. Takes you easily off to at least 3 BBC series (Dr Who, Dad's Army, Hi-de-HI), the Carry On Films, and at one more step to the old Prince of wales and to John Major's cabinet. Also another route to Ealing comedies via Raymond Huntley (Passport to Pimlico, at least).
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Well, we can get from David Niven to Ealing comedies in one of two obvious ways, via Stanley Holloway in The Way Ahead to Passport to Pimlico, The Lavender Hill Mob, and the Titfield Thunderbolt or, to continue the tangent on the pleasing cameo career of Niven's army partner in crime, via Trubshawe to the Titfield Thunderbolt.
Maybe Niven was the Kevin Bacon of his day? 6-degrees-of-David-Niven.
Could catch on.
Hell of a cast list in The Way Ahead. Makes all sorts of connections. Takes you easily off to at least 3 BBC series (Dr Who, Dad's Army, Hi-de-HI), the Carry On Films, and at one more step to the old Prince of wales and to John Major's cabinet. Also another route to Ealing comedies via Raymond Huntley (Passport to Pimlico, at least).
Yes I'd forgotten about Raymond Huntley - which is odd as he was an old boy of my school and I used to regularly pass a photo of him. That would also unlock St Trinians, which gets you back into P&P via George Cole in Gone to Earth.
Hours of fun.
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on
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Before we end up in the Circus, I'd like to put a vote in for The Titfield Thunderbolt as the finest of the Ealing comedies.
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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I love Passport to Pimlico because of the medieval history ("Charles the Bold's body, wolf-bitten on the battle field" to paraphrase the marvellous Margaret Rutherford) but the Titfield Thunderbolt is wonderful, too. And you get Sid James driving a steamroller.
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on
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Kind hearts and Coronets must be in the list of greats.
Fantastic performances from both Dennis Price and Alec Guinness, and the smoky-voiced Valerie Hobson vamping it up too.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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I love the old pre-war and wartime films - my parents were both very keen on them so I got to see a lot of those.
I'm happy to watch anything with Leslie Howard in it. "It's Love I'm After" and "Pimpernel Smith" are two of his best - the first is hilarious.
Two more old favourites are Hitchcock's "The Lady Vanishes" and "Notorious".
"Brief Encounter" deserves a mention, even if the accents are over the top by today's standards, and "Casablanca".
And one of my long-time favourite films is "Court Jester" starring Danny Kaye, and if you've seen it, you'll probably know why. "The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true."
Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
And one of my long-time favourite films is "Court Jester" starring Danny Kaye, and if you've seen it, you'll probably know why. "The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true."
Along the same lines, last April I attended a film festival that showed (among other things) Roman Scandals (1933?) with Eddie Cantor. Now I had never watched an Eddie Cantor movie before. From photos I had seen and some comments I had read, I had formed the opinion that I would not like his stuff. I was wrong. I got many a good laugh from Roman Scandals. Probably my favorite is a bit where Cantor, in Ancient Rome, is captured by 3 burly guards. The guards are discussing his fate:
"Beat him!" growls the first guard.
"Torture him!" growls second guard.
"Kill him!" growls the third guard.
"Let him go!" growls Cantor.
I think that is one of the nice things about film festivals. If you are there, you end up watching things that you would never sit down and watch on your own. And sometimes you discover stuff you really like that you never thought you would.
Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Kind hearts and Coronets must be in the list of greats.
Fantastic performances from both Dennis Price and Alec Guinness, and the smoky-voiced Valerie Hobson vamping it up too.
Yes! One of the best films of any kind, ever. Best moments for me are Alec Guinness' dreadful country vicar, and Dennis Price's dispatching of the lady suffragist - "I shot an arrow in the air, she fell to earth in Berkeley Square".
But mention of Classic Hollywood makes me think of the 1980 tv series Hollywood - the Silent Years. It was just gorgeous, with all those interviews of the great silent film makers and actors (and narrated by James Mason). I believe it can be found online.
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Kind hearts and Coronets must be in the list of greats.
Fantastic performances from both Dennis Price and Alec Guinness, and the smoky-voiced Valerie Hobson vamping it up too.
Yes! One of the best films of any kind, ever. Best moments for me are Alec Guinness' dreadful country vicar, ...
quote:
The Reverend Lord Henry was not one of those new-fangled parsons who carry the principles of their vocation uncomfortably into private life.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Maybe Niven was the Kevin Bacon of his day? 6-degrees-of-David-Niven.
Almost every actor* a significant people have heard of can be connected so. A very few actors do the vast majority of the work. It really is about as impressive as linking job titles in a medium sized business.
*Same applies to crew, to a great extent, but nobody knows their names.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
*Same applies to crew, to a great extent, but nobody knows their names.
Unless they hang out at Cheers. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Kind hearts and Coronets must be in the list of greats.
Fantastic performances from both Dennis Price and Alec Guinness, and the smoky-voiced Valerie Hobson vamping it up too.
It was the wonderful Joan Greenwood who was the smoky voiced Sibella, although Valerie Hobson's Edith was a wonderful counterfoil. And I actually think that Dennis Price out-acted Alec Guinness. Louis was such a wonderful character - blithely slaughtering his way to the title and dallying with two women at the same time, and yet you couldn't help but warm to him.
Ms Greenwood also used her wonderful voice to great effect in Whisky Galore.
Both of these films are absolute "must-see". They just don't make 'em like that any more.
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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I have a great love for Arsenic and Old Lace. I know some people hate it and think Cary Grant is over-acting, but it is wonderful comedy and perfectly timed. The moment when Cary Grant finds the body in the window seat is just priceless.
"Insanity runs in my family... It practically gallops."
And a mention must also be made of "Harvey", with Jimmy Stewart. Not just funny but also very poignant.
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on
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Well if you're going to call British Films "Classic Hollywood"
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp
The Man in the White Suit
I'm fond of silent movies;
Buster Keaton's The General
The Thief of Bagdad
Nosferatu
The Wind
Metropolis
Wings
The Dybbuk
The Goddess
and slightly more modern
I'm a sucker for rip your eyes out Technicolor
To Be or Not To Be
Casablanca
Singing in The Rain
Gone With The Wind
Citizen Kane
All about Eve
Sunset Boulevard
The Treasure of Sierra Madre
The Man who shot Liberty Valence
The Seven Samurai
Some Like It Hot
I'll stop now.. the list Is endless.
Posted by Galloping Granny (# 13814) on
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Okay, I'll chip in with Genevieve, with Larry Adler's harmonica and Kaye Kendall's (apparent) brilliant trumpet solo.
Danny Kaye Court Jester, yes, but how about any Marx Brothers' movie, especially Harpo's musicianship. Must see again...
(It's the music that gets me. Movies apart, Danny Kaye's Tubby the Tuba and The Little Fiddle I have on vinyls.)
GG
Posted by Moo (# 107) on
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No one has mentioned The Horse's Mouth. That's one of my all-time favorites.
Moo
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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Oh yes, I'd forgotten that. Very good, as is the novel it's based on.
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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We went to see Nosferatu last year, in the local church, with organ accompaniment by Father Richard - who was quite brilliant! This weekend he's doing the organ accompaniment to A Night on Dartmoor, a British silent film, as part of the local British film festival.
And Douglas Fairbanks Sr is always worth watching - The Thief of Bagdad is great, though I'm also rather fond of the 1940s colour version.
Having heard great things about The Black Pirate, and seen the clip where Douglas Fairbanks sticks his dagger in the sail and slides down it, cutting the sail in half, I got the DVD - only to find that the plot makes no sense at all! Though it's great fun to watch.
Also great fun to watch is Douglas Fairbanks' Robin Hood - a man who never walked anywhere if he could skip or gambol! I understand he was quite worried about being able to fill the enormous sets with enough action that the audience would focus on the actors. It's quite amusing to see that one back to back with the Errol Flynn version. Errol really was the Douglas Fairbanks Sr of his generation, and the film was remarkably similar in a lot of ways, including some of the sets.
Posted by Sparrow (# 2458) on
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Almost anything with Bette Davis.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on
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I saw Nosferatu with live accompaniment by the Alloy Percussion Orchestra. It was great.
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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I mentioned on the Old Shows that still Enthrall Us thread that I still have the ability to play videos. There used to be a lovely man on Brecon Market who sold second hand videos, and I was incredibly lucky to find the Gene Kelly Three Musketeers on his stall. I'd been looking on line and at the time they were going for silly money.
It's still my favourite Three Musketeers version.
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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What do people recommend for David Niven films?
And what are people's nominations for the best WWII film? Although there are plenty of candidates, I'm going to go for "Ice Cold in Alex". It's gritty and tense; all the main actors put in a sterling effort; the photography is stunning; and Sylvia Sim was absolutely drop dead gorgeous in khaki!
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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Niven film: "Around The World In 80 Days". Really good!
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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I used to like David Niven a lot until I read his autobiography.
Films I'd recommend: "Casino Royale" has been a long-time favourite. If you haven't seen it, it's quite amusing.
Posted by Starbug (# 15917) on
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I felt the same about Stewart Granger, Ariel. So much effing and blinding - I don't mind a bit of swearing, but this was in practically every line.
If we're voting for our favourite Ealing comedies, mine is the Ladykillers. (I went to see an amateur production of it last week, written by Graham Linehan. It was very funny, but had none of the menace). I couldn't get on with Kind Hearts and Coronets at all, but I'm not sure why.
Mr Bug loves the Margaret Rutherford 'Miss Marple' films and Basil Rathbone as Sherlock Holmes.
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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For me, it's:
Best David Niven film - A Matter of Life and Death
Best World War Two film - Ice Cold in Alex
Best Ealing Comedy - A Passport to Pimlico
And I thought Stewart Grainger was wonderful in Scaramouche - which has one of the best screen swordfights of all time (and those tights! I know he was on stage at the time, but some of those costumes!)
Margaret Rutherford was the first Miss Marple I ever saw. Joan Hickson was wonderful, and apparently who Agatha Christie herself preferred in the part, but Margaret Rutherford was great, too. And Basil Rathbone is one of my favourite Sherlocks, too.
Last night I went to see A Cottage on Dartmoor (not 'Night' as I mistakenly wrote up the thread), and it was brilliant! It was the last silent film ever to be made in Britain, and part of the story involves the characters going to the "talkies". You never see the screen - it's all reaction shots from the audience as the film starts silent, with a band playing, and then the band put their instruments down and start playing cards, and the audience are first puzzled and straining to hear, and then drawn into the action on screen. Wonderfully well done. And Father Richard did a great job with his organ accompaniment, too.
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I used to like David Niven a lot until I read his autobiography.
Films I'd recommend: "Casino Royale" has been a long-time favourite. If you haven't seen it, it's quite amusing.
Wow. That's one of my favourite books and goes everywhere with me - I even had it with me for 8 months when I was living in Antarctica. What was it about The Moon's A Balloon that made you not like him???
Personally I see it as one of the most joyous and life affirming books I've ever read which is why I'm genuinely interested in how someone else apparently doesn't!
I mean, when I read the biography by Graham Lord I actually cried at what a tragic life he had in many ways by the end.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Wow. That's one of my favourite books and goes everywhere with me - I even had it with me for 8 months when I was living in Antarctica. What was it about The Moon's A Balloon that made you not like him???
I don't remember now as it's many years since I read it, but I do remember it left me with a sense of disillusion and distaste.
Posted by betjemaniac (# 17618) on
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Following on from Eigon's post:
Best film: A Canterbury Tale
Best Niven film: The Guns of Navarone
Best WW2 film: A Bridge Too Far
Best Ealing Comedy: The Titfield Thunderbolt
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Eigon:
For me, it's:
Best David Niven film - A Matter of Life and Death
Best World War Two film - Ice Cold in Alex
Best Ealing Comedy - A Passport to Pimlico
I really must check out "A Matter of Life and Death" and "Around the world in 80 days". Thanks for the suggestions.
Best Ealing Comedy is a hard one to call. I love so many of them. But I have to plump for the one I willingly go back to time and again - like embracing an old friend - "Whisky Galore"
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Wow. That's one of my favourite books and goes everywhere with me - I even had it with me for 8 months when I was living in Antarctica. What was it about The Moon's A Balloon that made you not like him???
I don't remember now as it's many years since I read it, but I do remember it left me with a sense of disillusion and distaste.
It was certainly rather ground-breaking for its time. I don't think ever before a top Hollywood star had been quite so revealing about himself and his fellow stars. His stories about Errol Flynn were both hilarious and shocking.
But overall, I loved it (and the second one - "Bring on the Empty Horses")
Posted by Eigon (# 4917) on
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David Niven was wonderful in interviews, a great story teller. Though I think he had to give that up after a Michael Parkinson show, when everyone thought he was drunk, and it was actually the early stages of Parkinson's disease.
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