Ship of Fools: Any Owls forced by circumstance to get up at stupid o'clock (i.e. before 8am)...

Thread: Any Owls forced by circumstance to get up at stupid o'clock (i.e. before 8am)... Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

... coping tips please.

[Frown]

I'm habituated to the point that I now naturally wake at 6, but only with a desperate desire to go back to sleep because I'm still knackered. I start functioning about 10.

[ 20. March 2015, 14:02: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by BessLane (# 15176) on :

About a year ago, I changed from a job with extremely late hours to one with extremely early ones. I get up between 3 and 3:15 AM, Monday-Friday. I adjusted by making sure I go to bed early (7:30) and that I don't make the mistake of sleeping too late on the weekends. I may sleep in til 5 am or so, but that's usually as late as I'll go.

Mornings, I'll piddle around on the computer for about 1/2 an hour and drink a cup of coffee while I grumble about being up so danged early. Then, I go with the "fake it 'til you make it" method which is simply pretending to be perky, alert and with-it until I actually am. Usualy takes me about 1/2 hour to an hour of forced perk to achieve the real thing.

Don't know if that helps, but I gets me through the day [Big Grin]

Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :

BessLane [Eek!]

Posted by Lucia (# 15201) on :

People who naturally don't sleep until very late and naturally wake very late may have Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder.

Googling suggests that some people can benefit from light therapy using a lightbox during the first hour of their day to help shift their circadian rhythm to a more normal pattern. It also recommends things such as avoiding light in the evening especially tv, computers etc in the hours before going to bed. Some people also benefit from melatonin therapy.

Anyway, lots more info and links can be found here. These are not really coping mechanisms but more ways of treating the underlying disorder. If you feel you may fall into the sleep disorder category these may be worth looking at.

I'm sure my mother-in-law has this disorder. Fortunately she used to work in a job which had flexitime so she could roll up at work at 10am. Now she is retired I think she is rarely in bed before 2am and generally doesn't get up before 10am.

Posted by W Hyatt (# 14250) on :

Get a travel pillow like this one and take a quick nap in your car during lunch.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Coffee. Coffee, coffee, coffee. [Waterworks]

Oh, and melatonin supplement an hour before I want to be sleepy. No guarantees, but it doesn't hurt.

Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :

Out of bed. Into shower. Stay in shower for 20 mins or so, by which time I am functioning enough. Tea to drink first. Then coffee. With caffeine.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Manage it like jetlag. Lie to yourself abt what time it really is and function on Liberal Backslider Standard Time. It's a rigid discipline. 6 is the new 9. Or whatever is required.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Coffee. Coffee, coffee, coffee.

This.

You don't wake up until 10, Karl, I am not fully awake until after my second strong coffee of the day.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

I do my best everything after midnight. But, not possible with the new job. Up at 5:30. Shower first, then tea.

Posted by chive (# 208) on :

I work a rotating shift system where one day it is 0530 - 1730, the next 0900 - 2100, the next 1315 - 0115 then back in that night at 2100 - 0900. As a result my sleep is all over the place. The only thing that allows me to sleep properly is sleeping tablets which thankfully the GP is happy to prescribe.

It's not only your sleep that gets screwed up but your eating and your digestion. These shifts suck.

Posted by chive (# 208) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Oh, and melatonin supplement an hour before I want to be sleepy. No guarantees, but it doesn't hurt.

Be careful with melatonin though as it can cause significant changes in mood. I was prescribed it once and went from normally mad to suicidal overnight. Went back to normally mad a couple of days later.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by St Everild:
Out of bed. Into shower. Stay in shower for 20 mins or so, by which time I am functioning enough. Tea to drink first. Then coffee. With caffeine.

I get up early enough without getting up even earlier to take even a 2 minute shower.

I cannot believe an owl could do this.

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

quote:
Originally posted by St Everild:
Out of bed. Into shower. Stay in shower for 20 mins or so, by which time I am functioning enough. Tea to drink first. Then coffee. With caffeine.
I get up early enough without getting up even earlier to take even a 2 minute shower.

I cannot believe an owl could do this.

This. I have to allow a 15 minute sitting on the bed working out what's real and what's dream and persuading myself it's not worth losing my job to have another hour in bed without allowing shower time as well And this is after the first coffee of the day (curtesy machine set up night before)

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by W Hyatt:
Get a travel pillow like this one and take a quick nap in your car during lunch.

What car?

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

No sympathy - I'm a lark, up at 6am even 'tho retired. I do my best everything before 11am and completely flop at 3:30pm. Bed by 10pm at the latest!

Tweet tweet!

[Biased]

Posted by chive (# 208) on :

I think it depends if it's something you have to do regularly or just occasionally. When I worked a lot of early shifts I found I just had to force myself to bed at a boring time and get up at an unreasonable one. After a few months I got used to it but I found if I had a lie in on my days off it all started again so I had to get up relatively early on my off days too which irritated me.

If it's only occasional just survive it and you'll be able to get through it on minimal sleep. It sucks but it's doable.

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
No sympathy - I'm a lark, up at 6am even 'tho retired. I do my best everything before 11am and completely flop at 3:30pm. Bed by 10pm at the latest!

Tweet tweet!

The French have the right idea. Larks should be served lightly charred.

I don't even start properly waking up until after 8, so anything I do to prepare for the day before that is a complete waste. Ideally, I start around 10.

I think my body clock is completely and utterly confused, and has been for years. It's at the mercy of other forces.

Posted by W Hyatt (# 14250) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:
Originally posted by W Hyatt:
Get a travel pillow like this one and take a quick nap in your car during lunch.
What car?

Oh, well you're welcome to nap in my car if that helps! [Big Grin]

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
I get up early enough without getting up even earlier to take even a 2 minute shower.

I cannot believe an owl could do this.
This. I have to allow a 15 minute sitting on the bed working out what's real and what's dream and persuading myself it's not worth losing my job to have another hour in bed without allowing shower time as well And this is after the first coffee of the day (curtesy machine set up night before)

I'm an owl, but also a potterer. If I have to leave the house at 7 because I have an early meeting or something, I have to set the alarm for 5:30. Yes, in principle I could shower, eat breakfast and get out of the door in half an hour, but I'll be completely discombobulated all morning if I do that. If I need to be functional in the morning (and I don't get up early for the kind of nonsense meeting that just wants my body present), I've got to have my pottering time.

If it's an early start to catch a plane, or to drive somewhere, then although I'd still like to potter, I don't need to.

Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :

What wakes me up is a lark of a husband who brings me tea in bed. My eyes slowly open as I sip.
Unfortunately he then tries to engage me in conversation.
Showers in the morning? Torture!

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ThunderBunk:
The French have the right idea. Larks should be served lightly charred ...

I'll go along with that.

I'm lucky to be an owl who doesn't start w*rk until 10 most days. I'm currently limbering up for my annual up-at-silly-o'clock day: we have a Choral Eucharist with the New Fire on Easter morning at 6 o'clock, so I'll be up around 4:30, and for once will probably be in bed around 11 the night before.

That's the plan anyway ... [Paranoid]

Posted by sharkshooter (# 1589) on :

My wife and I start work at 7:00. So, the alarm goes off at 5:40 - we both shower and get lunches ready (usually mostly prepared the previous evening). I usually make her breakfast as well, which she eats when we get to the office. The drive is about a half hour (because we are before the morning gridlock gets too bad), and we are usually there on time. Since we work a block apart, driving together works well.

That does mean sleeping in until 6:00 today was a bonus, as even on weekends I don't make it that long. My wife does much better at sleeping in on the weekends, sometimes making it past 7:00.

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :

Coping hints and tips? These work for me:
* pack my bag the night before,
* choose (all) clothes the night before and leave hanging up,
* check enough money for tram/ bus the evening before,
* remember to double check front door key is in bag + mobile phone,
* leave a note to myself for the next morning.. "lunch in fridge", "take mobile phone out of charger", etc...
* only eat my breakfast on the go, once out of house

This only leaves me having to cope with ...getting from the bed to the shower, which is easier said than done..... into clothes and shoes.... coat on.....tick off the messages to self and do what they say.....and leave the house.

Somewhere between getting out of the front door and arriving at work i Do wake up. Just not too certain When though.
Should any silly sod insist on me getting to work before 9am, they hardly ever ask me to do it a second time.

Oh yes, and first thing i'm not too chatty and tend to be argumentative with nearest and dearest [Frown]

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ethne Alba:
This only leaves me having to cope with ...getting from the bed to the shower, which is easier said than done.....

In the days immediately following the spring time change and any other time that it's crucial for me to be up well before my body wants to be up, I set a piercing alarm in the bathroom.

Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
No sympathy - I'm a lark

How nice for you. Do you show up on other threads in All Saints to chirp, "No sympathy, I'm happily married" or "No sympathy, I have stable employment"?

I'm an owl forced into ridiculous lark hours which I fucking hate and am dearly hoping I will get to change this year. I have been doing this for seven years without making the magical adaptation to lark life. When I was able to set my hours to suit myself, my working day started at 10 am.... oh what I would give to be able to do that again.

The only thing that has ever helped a little is exercise: I sleep better, for the insufficient hours I sleep. Other than that I rely on duty, love, and that tiny spark of hope that I may one day be able to return to happy owl hours.

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :

Quick check to ensure that we Are in All Saints?......Yup.....

Leaf you have my deep sympathies. Shall pray for change at your work. Can't imagine how terrible that must be week in and week out.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:

The only thing that has ever helped a little is exercise: I sleep better, for the insufficient hours I sleep. Other than that I rely on duty, love, and that tiny spark of hope that I may one day be able to return to happy owl hours.

You will - it's called retirement!

I understand owls well - I live with one. I get up at 6am, he gets up at 10am. I go to bed at 10pm - he goes at midnight or later.

It's useful when we get a new puppy - both morning shifts and late shifts are covered!

[Smile]

Posted by Tree Bee (# 4033) on :

Yes, choose and put your clothes ready the night before. Or if you live with an early to bed lark like I do, prepare them the afternoon before so you're not stumbling around in the dark!
In the morning I have a timed routine that I can go through without thinking.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

I am a hibernator, which means that the winter up time at 5.00 gets increasingly difficult, but as the light increases, as it is doing now, I wake with the sun or slightly earlier.

I too need to potter, which means being up roughly 75 minutes before leaving the house. Notes to self the night before and as much stuff stacked by the front door as I will need to take with me the next day.

A mug of sweetened hot milk laced with whisky/brandy/rum helps the sleeping process. we are now at the end of the school term, and I've been packing in 121 singing lessons till 6.20PM, not home till 7.20 after a 24 mile drive, and in bed by 9PM. Fortunately this pressure will decrease dramatically after the Easter break.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

I'm naturally a later-in-the-day person. But, with a job that usually allows me to roll in at a sensible time. Yay! Though why I was up at 5am this morning beats me, I've been a mess all day (probably still adjusting to shifting 9 hours). On the other hand, I do tend to work normal hours even though I don't really need to, as it's become a habit recently.

I started getting into work at 9am when the children got me out of bed at 6am or so wanting breakfast, and then getting them to school (just across the road from work). Not easy, but the little dears do the job of getting you up far more efficiently than an alarm clock. Even though that no longer happens I still find myself stirring at about that time, pottering for a bit (time for a second mug of coffee before I leave) and working my way into a reasonable state for work. Although, I'm not usually at my best 'til about 3pm but now have the option of keeping going at work into the evening which is OK as the work gets done. When in Scotland, the children still get me up before 7am on the weekends which does sort of keep the internal clock running on the "get up at that time" even though it's nasty. Here there are two sensible trains (8:11 and 8:43) and I usually end up on the second one - if I miss that it's an hour hanging around the station for the next one. So, still up at 7am to have time to potter over breakfast.

I can't really say how I manage it without the little two-legged hungry for breakfast alarm clocks. But, somehow I do. A reasonable routine is established: alarm at 7am; potter around checking email and Ship while having breakfast and coffee, a shower (in Scotland a second coffee as I have a filter machine which gives me two mugs and fills my flask), leave about 8.20 for the train (in Scotland I get an extra half hour at that point). In work 9am, a second look at email, potter around for a while responding to anything and working out what I'll be doing for the day. Coffee at 10.30 by which time I'm working semi-productively, then after lunch I start to feel OK to do stuff that needs my attention. By 3pm I'm on a roll, so keep working with a quick coffee and some Ship time. Call it a day usually sometime between 7pm and 8pm, unless I need to get something done (here I have weekly research group meeting that starts at 6.30pm and usually finishes in time for the 9.30 train - if it doesn't then I'm stuck waiting for the next one gone 11). Get home, cook dinner, potter on the computer for a while then make sure everything's set for the next day. Bed around 11pm.

If I really need to be up early, then my trick is several alarms set at 5 minute intervals, none of them where I can reach them from the bed.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

I am neither an owl nor a lark. I am what the French call a marmot – a person who needs a lot of sleep (don’t know whether marmots really are particularly sleepy animals). Consequently, while I like being in bed by about 11 p.m., I also don’t really function if I have to get up before about 7:30 or 8 o’clock.

Like LC, I am also a potterer. I hate being in a hurry in the morning. If I have to be up and about at oh hell o’clock, I find it helps to have as much as possible of everything prepared the night before, e.g. by picking out my clothes so I only have to put them on, making sure my bag is ready, washing my hair the night before, and so on. Anything that I am liable to forget goes in an obvious spot next to the front door where I can’t miss it. That way I can autopilot my way through everything and don’t have to think about any of it.

I can’t stomach anything that early in the morning so it’s better for me to have something packed that I can eat later.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

Have you tried a sunrise alarm clock Karl?

My son is a natural owl, like his Dad, and has to get up at 4am on working days (he's an airline pilot), he finds it helps enormously.

[Smile]

Posted by Macrina (# 8807) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
No sympathy - I'm a lark, up at 6am even 'tho retired. I do my best everything before 11am and completely flop at 3:30pm. Bed by 10pm at the latest!

Tweet tweet!

May you be forced to work night shift in your next incarnation!

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Have you tried a sunrise alarm clock Karl?

My son is a natural owl, like his Dad, and has to get up at 4am on working days (he's an airline pilot), he finds it helps enormously.

Much of the year it's already light by 6am. It's no easier then.

eta. [Yorkshire]HOW MUCH!?![/Yorkshire]

[ 24. March 2015, 11:39: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Macrina:

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
No sympathy - I'm a lark, up at 6am even 'tho retired. I do my best everything before 11am and completely flop at 3:30pm. Bed by 10pm at the latest!

Tweet tweet!

May you be forced to work night shift in your next incarnation!

Haha - I am well aware how annoying us larks are to you owls! I have always been the lone lark in my family.

I once shared a room with a lark, it was a joy - we happily twittered together at 6am and were having an early morning stroll down the beach at 7am, followed by coffee + more chat - marvellous.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Come and celebrate larkiness on a thread in Heaven, and leave the bleary-eyed owls to rest.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
[Yorkshire]HOW MUCH!?![/Yorkshire]

It's marketed as an "alternative therapy". That allows people the excuse to shift decimal points. Someone probably sells almost exactly the same gadget for £15, but makes no outrageous claims about the benefit of artificial sun-like-light. All you need is a desk lamp and a timer switch, lights on a stupid o'clock to help wake you up.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
... washing my hair the night before ...

That doesn't work for me: my hair is sufficiently unruly that even if I were to lie utterly motionless all night, I'd still wake up looking as if I'd been dragged through a hedge backwards*, so a shower has to be allowed for in the morning timetable. If that means occasionally getting up at oh-bugger-o'clock, so be it.

* I look like that even after an overnight flight, which doesn't involve lying down ... [Help]

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
All you need is a desk lamp and a timer switch, lights on a stupid o'clock to help wake you up.

I keep meaning to build a slightly better version, which gradually brightens over half an hour, to better mimic an actual morning. Round tuits seem to be in rather scarce supply here, though.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

I've been dealing with this a lot more lately; I've started bike racing this season, and they like to give us rookies the Absolute Worst Times, which, right now,* means an 8:30 start time. It takes the better part of an hour sometimes to get to the race, plus time to check in, get set up, warm up, etc—so a 6 AM or earlier wake-up. Oh, and drowsiness while sitting a few inches off somebody's back wheel and bumping elbows with everyone else at 30 MPH isn't a good thing...especially when considering that the race itself kinda wears you out.

So the trick is to find a way to have the alarm go off at the last possible second to allow yourself just enough time to get out the door when you need to, especially when considering that you're going to be slow and forgetful in the morning. Do everything possible the night before when you're actually functional and will catch that you missed something—no, not just packing lunches and laying out clothes, but making the non-negotiable first cup of coffee** or, in my case, putting my bike shoes in my car. Admit to yourself that you will be slow, you will be forgetful, you will be worse than useless in the morning, and anything you have to do then you will almost certainly do poorly—so do it now. Even if it feels stupid, like putting the helmet that always hangs on your bike in the car—because, in the morning haze, you will take it off the bike, set it down somewhere when you take out the bike, and then forget it.

You are going to be stupid in the morning. You are not the same capable, useful, intelligent person you are at night. It will feel like you're belittling yourself, like you're taking care of a three-year old who also happens to be you, but you'll have to do it. If you don't, you will forget things, you will have to sacrifice sleep for inefficiency, and you will be stressed and tired. Know that everything—EVERYTHING—is taken care of the night before, when your best, clear-thinking self did it, rather than the morning version of you who forgets that coffee is an effective antidote to feeling dead.

Also remember that mornings are different. They feel different. Sunrises look weird—pretty, yes, but weird. It's like the world's backwards. It's also going to be cold. The cold will make you tired, make you slow, make you lose whatever concentration you might have. If it's a really early morning, even your coffee that you made the night before (or bought as cold brew) will probably be cold. The weirdness, and general backwardness, is going to throw you, especially when combined with everything else that's Unnatural. Another reason to do everything you can the night before, while things are still normal and you can tell the difference between "not right because it's actually not right" and "not right because, right now, nothing seems right and everything's weird."

*Come July, when daily highs are usually above 90º/32º, they'll give us the 1 PM start time. They're so friendly.
**It's prevenient caffeine—the coffee you need in order to be functional enough to make and receive the salvific caffeine that gets you through the day.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
I keep meaning to build a slightly better version, which gradually brightens over half an hour, to better mimic an actual morning. Round tuits seem to be in rather scarce supply here, though.

That's what the sunrise alarms do - and they have full spectrum light, desk lamps won't cut it.

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :

Ariston....perfectly put!

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
All you need is a desk lamp and a timer switch, lights on a stupid o'clock to help wake you up.
I keep meaning to build a slightly better version, which gradually brightens over half an hour, to better mimic an actual morning. Round tuits seem to be in rather scarce supply here, though.

Well, if I need to be up early then I need a shock. Alarms with really annoying synthetic 'tunes' at too loud volume, lights that are bright and in your face. And, the whole lot somewhere that I need to get out of bed to turn the buggers off. I need "get your arse out of bed, NOW", not "it might be a good idea to think about waking up soon".

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

The sunrise lamps work well for me in conjunction with a slightly later-set "Get the HELL out of bed NOW!" alarm somewhere out of reach (like that cool one that pitches itself off the dresser and rolls away like anything, laughing as you try to tackle it to turn it off).

The first lets me get my pre-conscious pottering done ("Oh, is this a neuron? Let's try firing one and find out") so I'm ready (well, sort of) when the alarm from hell goes off.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

We got a sunrise light, which had an additional feature - sound.

The idea was that you would waken gently by the increasing light, to the gentle sound of a babbling stream.

What actually happened was that the sound of running water first thing in the morning catapulted both of us out of bed to dash to the toilet, fighting like ferrets to get in first.

We used it for three days then took it back to the shop for a refund. The shop (Boots) refunded immediately. Apparently ours was the third they'd had returned, all for the same reason.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

I don't thinking I've ever seen ferrets fighting to get into the bathroom, but I suppose it must happen ... [Big Grin]

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

I have a sunrise clock that works well for the “it’s dark and my body doesn’t think it’s time to get up yet” problem. Trouble is, they don’t really do anything for the “just haven’t had enough sleep” problem.

If you need eight hours, you need eight hours. Being awoken after six hours by a sunlight clock may be less horrible than being awoken by a nasty noise, but all things being considered together, you won’t be significantly less tired.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

I think La Vie has hit it on the head: no matter what time of year it is, or how much/little light there is, we all know our own individual needs for sleep and the only answer is to try and meet those needs.

We've got a friend (in his early 60s and a definite Lark) who's in his dressing-gown with a mug of hot milk by 8:30 in the evening; if he's at a function that goes beyond, say, about 10:30 you can see him start to turn into a pumpkin ... [Big Grin]

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
I think La Vie has hit it on the head: no matter what time of year it is, or how much/little light there is, we all know our own individual needs for sleep and the only answer is to try and meet those needs.

Wish I could, wish I could. Mrs Backslider has to be at work by 8 which means leaving at 7:15; I have to get the kids to the childminder and then go to work myself.

The sleep pattern I need is not an option.

[ 25. March 2015, 13:11: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

I'm rarely asleep after 5.00 a.m.

I'm barely alive after 9.00 p.m. - unless adrenaline is pumping for something. So I guess we won't bump into each other!

Posted by DangerousDeacon (# 10582) on :

Significant night owl here - my best work is often between 12 midnight and 2 am.

How to cope?

First, have a job where you can sleep in, or can take a siesta. I do not function in 8am to 4 pm office jobs, but can function as a parish priest whose parish work does not start until 9 am.

Second, live in the tropics. It is harder to get out of bed when it is just over freezing outside. Living in the tropics, one less hurdle - the temperature in bed under the sheet (no doona) and out of bed is the same.

Third as has been suggested by a previous poster, everything is done the night before. Clothes ironed and hanging up, wallet, phone, car keys lined up and ready to go, etc.

Fourth. REJECT THE IDEA THAT HAVING A DIFFERENT BODY CLOCK IS A DISORDER. It is not. It is only a disorder because we live in a dysfunctional society where time is so pressured. In other cultures (such as Oceania) there are no problems coping. If normal routines started at 11.00 am and finished at midnight, then the early risers would be considered disordered.

Of course, all easier said than done. I have been very lucky in that some of my jobs were easy on my body clock. The solution? Night Owls of the world, rise and up and unite to defeat the fascism of time dictators! Revolution now! Let the early risers rule the day - the night is ours!

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

Unfortunately not entirely practical; replacement jobs don't grow on trees; if I had an alternative I'd already be doing something different for any number of reasons, and I can't imagine anywhere less suitable than the tropics for someone like me who starts complaining about the unbearable heat at 24C and doesn't like going out in Summer if there's less than 50% cloud cover. Half the year I sleep (mind bleach warning) starkers with no covers so the temperature "outside the duvet" is not an issue. I run hot.

Besides, the reason I have to get up early is Mrs Backslider's start time, not mine.

Posted by Louise (# 30) on :

There are two key bits of science here - whether you're a owl or a lark, or in-between is set by what PER genes you have (IIRC), and your overall tendency (whatever it is) re-asserts itself after adolescence, so you'll likely never feel totally larky in the mornings. However there is one controllable variable and that's exposure to blue light which sets/re-sets your daily cycles through special retinal ganglion cells in the eye which contain melanopsin.

To shift your sleep/rise times to a more larkish cycle, cut out blue light in the hours before bed eg. if you have to get up at seven, and want to get to sleep about 11pm, then make sure blue light is cut out from at least 10pm if not before.

Screens on your computer, phone, tablet etc. kick out lots of blue light. You can filter the blue light out either with yellow tinted glasses or you can tape/blue tack rubylith film over your screens to cut the blue and use coloured light bulbs to shift to red lighting in the home/bedroom. You can buy rubylith film for a few quid off ebay. Make sure you have no blue/white lights from things charging in your bedroom and that you have black out curtains to stop daylight getting in when you don't want it in summer. Or use a sleep mask if light seeps in from anywhere you can't block.

In the morning you want lots of blue light/ white light. Daylight is best - get outside as soon as possible, and try to get enough light outside early in the morning for that to help shift your body clock early naturally. SAD lamps are good in the morning in winter - but are expensive.

This actually makes a difference when I have the discipline to stick to it. But you have to be really strict on the no blue light for an hour/hour and a half before bed and you need to strictly cover the screens if you're going to use computers at night. Programmes which claim they cut the blue light like F.lux don't really do enough. I've found it needs the rubylith film to stop screens keeping me awake. (The blue light at night delays the body's natural release of melatonin).

cheers,
Louise

Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on :

I can get to sleep at any time. That's never the problem. It's just that at 6am, whether I've had 8 or 4 hours sleep, my brain says the same thing - "it's too early. Go back to sleep."

The only difference it makes is about 3 in the afternoon and about 9 in the evening where if I've had a short night I'll start nodding off. I perk up again around 10 but can go to bed then if I want.

It's the first two hours in the morning that kill me, regardless of how long I slept before them.

Posted by Louise (# 30) on :

The body clock affects other processes than sleep which can make you feel lousy - having a work cycle that doesn't match the body cycle has been called 'social jetlag' as it has the same effects. The most powerful way to set the body clock is daylight outside early in the morning. You could try half an hour outside as the first thing you do (drastic but it is powerful) replacing it in winter/bad weather with a very powerful SAD lamp. The other crucial thing is not to sleep in at the weekends - as that will increase the jet lag effect on Monday morning when you shift to getting up early again.

I had to research the science of it for a programme and am a very extreme owl myself and I've never found a total solution for feeling crap when I have to work mornings, except I know from experience that when I have to work outside in bright light I feel a lot better than I would normally at an early hour, and when I'm disciplined with light exposure I do start waking earlier and feeling OK. But I am rubbish at keeping up that kind of discipline.

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
I ... am a very extreme owl myself

Checks time post was made. Yes, that looks like extreme night owl to me.

Posted by Teilhard (# 16342) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
... coping tips please.

I'm habituated to the point that I now naturally wake at 6, but only with a desperate desire to go back to sleep because I'm still knackered. I start functioning about 10.

Lots of coffee … strong … black

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Teilhard:

quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
... coping tips please.

I'm habituated to the point that I now naturally wake at 6, but only with a desperate desire to go back to sleep because I'm still knackered. I start functioning about 10.
Lots of coffee … strong … black

...intravenously.

Moo

Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on :

I'm very much a lark. For six years I worked a 1 pm to 10 pm shift six days a week. This was further complicated by the location which was in the high arctic where we had about four months of full darkness and four months of full light with two months of transition twice a year.

I found that the only possible way to survive was to completely re-set my daily schedule such that I was waking two hours before work and sleeping about three hours after work ended. I had to forget what everyone else was doing and have a different schedule.

As I age, I find my quality of sleep is becoming poorer than before. I'm glad I did that job when I was young.

Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
I ... am a very extreme owl myself
Checks time post was made. Yes, that looks like extreme night owl to me.

01.05am is a perfectly normal time to be still awake ;-)

Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :

Clearly I lied when saying I was awake in the early afternoon, because I really balls up the time zone adjustment. I had that at 3am.

Although I'm sometimes still awake and posting gone midnight, rarely after 1am but I can see that as a not unreasonable time. 3am is a toss up between extreme owl still going or extreme lark getting up.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Yangtze:

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:

quote:
Originally posted by Louise:
I ... am a very extreme owl myself
Checks time post was made. Yes, that looks like extreme night owl to me.
01.05am is a perfectly normal time to be still awake ;-)

Yep - I'm being a bit more careful when I send work e-mails. Comment has been made about my ability to send them at 1:30am and 4am. 4am I woke up early, probably after being stupid enough to try for an early night (before midnight). 1:30am I did some work after getting in from being out. (No, I don't need a lot of sleep and am very confused as to whether I'm an owl or lark.)

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :

Louise's posts explain why i feel so very much better when i can force myself to remain awake, then get ready and go....outside as quickly as possible.

Not entirely certain that this way of living is easily transferable to Karl:LB's situation though.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

My sleep patterns have been permanently altered by Camino-ing I cannot sleep beyond 6.00 am, which is when the sun rises (except for winter in Canada, when if it does rise, it will be after 8.00 am) and one must start walking. However, a siesta kicks in about 2.00 pm for an hour; but one can easily continue to midnight or so. To annoy people, I send most of my business email on waking (sometimes saving them in draft from the night before) so that their 6.07am departure is most effective on hungover staff.

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
... 3am is a toss up between extreme owl still going or extreme lark getting up.

Ours is one of the contact numbers for the Cathedral alarm system, and as D. is an extreme owl and the Dean is an extreme lark, we reckon that if it's before 3 in the morning they should contact us and if it's after about 5, contact the Dean. If it's in between, the burglars can help themselves ... [Big Grin]

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Yep - I'm being a bit more careful when I send work e-mails. Comment has been made about my ability to send them at 1:30am and 4am. 4am I woke up early, probably after being stupid enough to try for an early night (before midnight). 1:30am I did some work after getting in from being out. (No, I don't need a lot of sleep and am very confused as to whether I'm an owl or lark.)

That's wise--I got called on the carpet (in all seriousness) because I sent my boss an "I'm afraid I'm too sick to come into work today" email at 4 dark o'clock in the morning, and he noticed the timestamp. Apparently he assumed I'd been out on the town making a night of it, though the truth was I'd just finished a major vomiting session (sorry, TMI) and didn't want to wake up again at 6:30 just to send a freaking email!

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