Thread: KJV-NRSV common verses Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=028415
Posted by Bran Stark (# 15252) on :
 
I hope this topic isn't too dreadfully narrow, but it occurred to me that it might be interesting to see which passages are rendered identically by two very different biblical translations - the King James Version and the New Revised Standard Version, which are something of "standards" in the Fundementalist/traditional Anglican communities and the Mainline Protestant/secular academic communities, respectively. Although they were made almost 400 years apart, in very different linguistic contexts, I have already discovered a fair number of such verses, and I am hoping some of you might be able to dig out more.

Here's my list so far (disregarding differences in punctuation and capitalization, but taking note of differences in spellings of names). As you can see, some of my "common verses" are grasping at straws a bit by restoring to the "begat" parts of the Bible, but some others actually touch on important doctrines.

Exodus 1: 2-4. Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin, Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.

I Chronicles 1: 4. Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

I Chronicles 1: 25-26. Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah,

Ecclesiastes 3: 3-4. A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up; A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance..

Song of Solomon 1: 1. The song of songs, which is Solomon's.

Matthew 5: 3. Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 6: 11. Give us this day our daily bread.

Matthew 22: 40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 1: 1. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1: 6. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

John 3: 30. He must increase, but I must decrease.

I John 1: 8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

I John 1: 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
 
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 
Well, I don't think there's much a translator can do to alter a list of names. [Big Grin] I do like that some of the poetry, or poetic language (like John 1:1) stayed the same.

I was hoping that John 11:35 would stil be rendered "Jesus wept" but the NRSV has "Jesus began to weep."
 
Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
You're getting into the territory of translation theory at least as much as theology here. The Authorised Version is canonical, par excellence pretty much. It's almost impossible for other translations to get too far away from canonical translations, particularly once they get into the cultural bloodstream.

This is not restricted to the Bible - go and look at the influence of Constance Garnett on later translations of the canonical Russian novels (up to Chekhov) to see exactly the same phenomenon.
 
Posted by Demas (# 24) on :
 
The NRSV is a revision of the RSV (1952) which is a revision of the ASV (1901) and English RV (1885) which was a revision of the KJV. It's a linear descendant, and each step in the way was done in a deliberately conservative manner to not alienate readers, especially in key, familiar passages, so I'm not surprised there is somewhat of an overlap.

It might be interesting to compare with another revision of the RSV - the ESV.

If you want different, try the NIV, or indeed the Good News Bible [Smile] Or the truly wonderful but sadly undermarketed Revised English Bible.
 
Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Demas:
Or the truly wonderful but sadly undermarketed Revised English Bible.
Thank you! I am just coming back to reading the Bible regularly after a long break and am using an REB that was my mum's. It's a version I've been unfamiliar with hitherto but I really love it and am surprised it is not more widely used.

Nen - apologies for being a tad off topic. [Hot and Hormonal]
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bran Stark:
I John 1: 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I'm actually surprised that the construction "we make him a liar" was thought to be contemporary English when the NRSV was redacted. It sounds old-fashioned to me, and I wonder if an American 8th grader (my population of young Americans to work with) would understand what it meant.
 
Posted by Demas (# 24) on :
 
There's a lot of old fashioned language in the NRSV (even more in the ESV). I wouldn't know if 'make him a liar' was old fashioned though; it would presumably depend on the audience.

The CEV has "If we say that we have not sinned, we make God a liar, and his message isn’t in our hearts." so maybe it isn't as old fashioned as it initially sounds - or there isn't a better way to phrase it.
 
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
I'll ask my kids what they think of it.
 
Posted by Demas (# 24) on :
 
Please do! And ask them how they would express the idea in their own words.
 
Posted by Bran Stark (# 15252) on :
 
And here's a verse much-beloved by Matins-reciters everywhere. Not only is it the same in the KJV and the NRSV, but it's also the same in the traditional Prayer Book Psalter and the 1979 Prayer Book Psalter.

Psalm 95: 3. For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Just a few lines later we have another KJV-NRSV common verse:

Psalm 95: 6. O come, let us worship and bow down, let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
 
Posted by Try (# 4951) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Bran Stark:
I John 1: 10. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
I'm actually surprised that the construction "we make him a liar" was thought to be contemporary English when the NRSV was redacted. It sounds old-fashioned to me, and I wonder if an American 8th grader (my population of young Americans to work with) would understand what it meant.
The NRSV was not ever intended for 8th graders! It was deliberately written at a 11th grade, high school junior level. The NRSV's unsuitability for use by children and younger youth was one of the concerns driving the creation of the new Common English Bible. Though as someone mentioned earlier, the Revised English Bible is another ecumenical, mainline translation which is easier to read then the NRSV. Perhaps it would have been better to pluck that version out of obscurity than to spend the time and money necessary to make another English Bible translation.
 
Posted by Bran Stark (# 15252) on :
 
I'm surprised I didn't notice this one before.

Luke 2: 13. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying:
 


© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0