Ship of Fools: Tony Palmer, the CEEC, ecumenism and the Pope

Thread: Tony Palmer, the CEEC, ecumenism and the Pope Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

I've just come across the curious story of the late Tony Palmer, a priest in the Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches who was a personal friend of Pope Francis, and as such delivered a message from the Pope to, of all things, a Kenneth Copeland conference (it seems Palmer headed up Copeland's South Africa office).

I discovered all this last night at a meeting of the Chemin Neuf who were very excited at this rapprochement between Catholics and evangelicals (I reluctantly pointed out that it was between Catholics and an episcopalian schismatic, but still).

This story intrigues me on a number of levels.

Does anyone know anything about the CEEC?

What, if any, significance should be seen in Pope Francis' ongoing friendship with Palmer and his willingness to be associated with this apparent maverick in the cause of christian unity? Evangelicals other than Copeland & co. seem to be warming to Francis. Is ecumenism enjoying its second wind?

(I searched to see if Tony Palmer had been mentioned before on the Ship and was rather surprised not to find any results).

Posted by CL (# 16145) on :

quote:
Is ecumenism enjoying its second wind?

No.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Thanks for the helpful insight [Disappointed]

Care to expand on why you think that?

Posted by Seth (# 3623) on :

Thank you for starting this thread, Eutychus. I came to Christian faith through a church in Trowbridge (where the deceased priest was living.) The church was neo-Pentecostal,quite supportive of "health and wealth" preachers like Copeland and weirdly ambivalent towards Roman Catholicism.

On one hand there was a stream of fundamentalist-inspired distrust of "Romanism", and on the other there was a warmth towards obviously Bible-loving and theologically quite conservative fellow Charismatics within the Catholic Church. Local Catholics would sometimes attend meetings in town of the Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International, an evangelising group with Pentecostal roots.

I now have very little respect for Kenneth Copeland, who is- to put it diplomatically- a very good businessman, so I'd tend to see any ecumenical overtures coming from him as probably pragmatic and "empire building" before anything else, but I didn't know anything about the Tony Palmer at all, and wouldn't like to speculate about his denomination's goals...

[ 04. December 2014, 08:08: Message edited by: Seth ]

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

Is it surprising that the Pope's circle of friends includes people with odd theological views? I'm not particularly outgoing, but I know people whose opinions are stranger than those of Tony Palmer, and I'm sure if I had the personal magnetism required to be Pope I would know more. I hope that if I ever did rise to the chair of St Peter I would not throw them over.

Posted by Ahleal V (# 8404) on :

+Francis seems to have an affinity for contacts with Pentecostals as he addressed a local gathering (with little pomp or ceremony) in July 2014 (text of address).

x

AV

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Yes, that meeting came up too in the video we were shown this week. There is something quite extraordinary about a Pope addressing a bunch of Pentecostals - in Italy - and apologising for persecution of evangelicals in Italy by the catholics as recently as the Mussolini period.

This appears to be more than maintaining the odd (in every sense of the word) friendship.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

He's South American, so perhaps he's had more experience of interacting and negotiating with Pentecostals than most popes....

I can imagine that the RCC would find it more strategic these days to work with rather than against a Christian movement that has grown so big and powerful in many of the RCC's former heartlands.

[ 04. December 2014, 21:24: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posted by CL (# 16145) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
He's South American, so perhaps he's had more experience of interacting and negotiating with Pentecostals than most popes....

I can imagine that the RCC would find it more strategic these days to work with rather than against a Christian movement that has grown so big and powerful in many of the RCC's former heartlands.

If they had or were doing their jobs properly Pentacostalist nonsense wouldn't have grown so strong in South America. Sup with the Devil with a long spoon.

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

Well, between Steve Langton accusing the Queen of technically being an antichrist on the one hand and you assimilating pentecostalists to the devil on the other, I'd say we're definitely doing our bit to nurture cross-denominational acceptance and understanding around here [Roll Eyes]

[ 05. December 2014, 10:57: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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