Ship of Fools: Sartorial Question

Thread: Sartorial Question - postulants collar Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by JClarke (# 18275) on :

This is not an important question but rather a curiosity. Does anyone know what a postulant's collar is? I have seen these around on those in the ordination process in various Anglican denominations, is this something that is widely accepted?

[ 18. November 2014, 03:38: Message edited by: JClarke ]

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

You mean the collar with the black line?

Not really

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

Never seen, or heard of, it this side of the pond.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Never seen, or heard of, it this side of the pond.

No, I haven't either.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

A TEC friend of mine who had one during her seminarian years told me that they were used when on chaplaincy or training in institutions such as hospitals and detention centres. I've never seen them used in Canada but then again I lead a sheltered life.

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

I think an image of one here.

Jengie

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

I believe that is what's being asked about.

The problem is that the person depicted is a deacon, who is entitled to wear the collar without the line. He is clergy.

Posted by JClarke (# 18275) on :

Thank you all for your comments. It was mentioned to me as an option during my postulancy and I was previously unaware of such an item!

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

I'm getting confused here: surely a postulant is someone on the first step in the religious life as a monk or nun - in other words, NOT a deacon?

As for the collar with the black line: looks rather odd to my tired old eyes.

Posted by Kayarecee (# 17289) on :

In some traditions, at least on the american side of the pond, when one is beginning to discern a call to ordained ministry, one progresses from aspirant, to postulant, to candidate, to ordained as one gets further in one's training and sequence of approval by the Powers-That-Be. I'm guessing that's where the name came from; I've heard of (but never witnessed) some seminarians wearing the thing to mark that they're on the way to being a clerical person but not ordained yet. (Which is why, as noted above, the ordained deacon in the link shouldn't be wearing one.)

The modern clerical collar is descended from the backwards-turned detachable collar of older days. I think the stripe on the postulant's collar is supposed to represent that backwards-turned collar turned around frontwards again. Seems unnecessary to me, but mileage can and does vary greatly on these things.

[ 18. November 2014, 20:48: Message edited by: Kayarecee ]

Posted by Adam. (# 4991) on :

In my corner of the RC world, I've only seen it worn by religious brothers. Different communities and dioceses have different policies on seminarians wearing clerical collars*, but I've never known any seminarians wear that form of collar.

Also, as L'organist suggests, we use the term 'postulant' for someone in pre-novitiate formation for consecrated life. That person may or may not be discerning or preparing for holy orders.

--
* (what we call 'clerics,' but at least some others on ship call 'clericals')

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :

I have once seen a seminarian's collar - worn by an ordinand when preaching in a college chapel. Not sure what his reasons were and I'll never know as he was killed in a car crash in July.

Carys

Posted by Ceremoniar (# 13596) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adam.:
In my corner of the RC world, I've only seen it worn by religious brothers. Different communities and dioceses have different policies on seminarians wearing clerical collars*, but I've never known any seminarians wear that form of collar.

Same here. I've seen Brothers wear that collar, never seminarians, whom I have always seen in a standard clerical collar once they receive the cassock.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

I don't think it's actually a criminal offence in England and Wales to impersonate a clergy person. Nevertheless, as far as I know, the general principle in the CofE is that the only people who wear clerical collars are deacons, priests and bishops and actors playing them. Lay Readers, those who are training for ordination and unordained religious do not wear them. I think it's fair to say that they would be regarded as having ideas above their station if they did.

[ 18. November 2014, 22:25: Message edited by: Enoch ]

Posted by Carys (# 78) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I don't think it's actually a criminal offence in England and Wales to impersonate a clergy person. Nevertheless, as far as I know, the general principle in the CofE is that the only people who wear clerical collars are deacons, priests and bishops and actors playing them. Lay Readers, those who are training for ordination and unordained religious do not wear them. I think it's fair to say that they would be regarded as having ideas above their station if they did.

In some orders even ordained religious don't wear therm...

Carys

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

In (Anglican) Canada, a postulant is generally someone who has been formally accepted by a diocese/ bishop to go on the ordination track. They get to be listed on diocesan websites and enter into a formal relationship with the bishop.

As for the collared deacon referred to upstream is REC, it might be pre-ordination photo or he might be in a perpetual deacon now accepted for a priestly ordination track-- just a guess.

Posted by Knopwood (# 11596) on :

This documentary shows St Jonathan Daniels wearing one (skip to 34 minutes); likewise the icon by Br Tobias Haller midway down this page.

[ 19. November 2014, 05:59: Message edited by: Knopwood ]

Posted by Sacerdote (# 11627) on :

I think I used to hear these collars referred to as "brothers'collars", but the only one I've ever seen was worn by a Jesuit scholastic at my university back in the 60's, and that was a traditional "all round" collar with a black biro line down the front. Until today it had never occurred to me that anyone might modify a tab collar in this way. Until I saw the Jesuit wearing his I'd rather thought these collars were an Anglican invention, like "laymen's birettas". Maybe it originated with eg Oratorian or Redemptorist collars, which are open in front.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

Trainee pastors in the Metropolitan Community Church wear them.

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