quote:

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Originally posted by mengascini:
Does anyone else have real practical problems with the bit in the Methodist worship book "The people may greet each other in the name of Christ"? (otherwise known as Sharing the Peace). Firstly when I enter the church, I shake the hand of the door steward and plenty of the 50 others of the congregation, greet people over coffee and biccies afterwards and shake the hand of the Minister. Since we all know why we are there you would think three times in a morning was enough.
Secondly, I have a immune system issue, multiple myeloma (a kind of lukemia) do I want to shake everyone with Novovirus/flu/bronchitis/colds and those carrying their grandchildren's chickenpox? To cap it all the 10 minute chattering and germspreading is then followed by the Minister breaking up in his hands two co-op white buns! Over the last 3 years I have been in hospital 3 times with infections. Any Advice please.
It is not even considered an essential part of the communion service according to the book and in John,s Gospel I thought it was clear that Christ's peace was not the same as human peace, so why do it?

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If you already shake the hands of so many, then the additional infection risk of sharing the peace is probably insignificant. Given your immune system issues, you might need to avoid those contacts as well (not to mention door handles, chair backs, hymn books etc.) or you're not going to reduce your risk much merely by eliminating the peace*.

In that case, folk will soon come to understand your contact issues, and will be accepting of a friendly non-contact greeting.

As far as breaking the bread is concerned, we have been using (since the swine flu scare) an alcohol gel hand sanitiser for those administering communion. It is easily dealt with in a discreet manner before the bread or communion vessels are handled, and does reduce the risks.

I'm thankful not to have a compromised immune system, so my case is different from yours, but I will say that regularly greeting people at the door with a handshake, regularly sharing the peace, and being the last to use a common cup doesn't appear to have increased my infection rate above the level experienced by anyone else in the congregation.

(*Is it worth discussing with your doctor, what sorts of precautions you ought to be taking in public settings like this?)
 

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Posted by seasick (# 48) on :
 
I'm interested that you say that you shake hands with lots of people as you arrive at church. Why is that not an infection risk?
 

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Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :
 
hosting/

mengascini, welcome aboard!

Please take some time to read the Ship's Ten Commandments and posting guidelines, and say hi if you wish on our official newbie thread on the All Saints board.

As you can see from the thread mdijon linked to, the subject matter is probably better suited to our Ecclesiantics board which covers worship practices, so I'm going to move it over there.

Everybody, please do not be shaken from the brotherly exchange of the Peace while I do so...

/hosting
 

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Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Megascini

I note you are new, so welcome. This topic generates a lot of discussion on the ship. I was hoping to do a summary of previous threads, but when I searched there were a lot of older threads.

I do not think the physical health issue has been focused on before. Although some have asked for consideration for people with arthritis. The effect of exchanging the peace has on certain people with mental health trauma has been.

I understand that physical touch might be important for some, and even healing. However, like anything with those powers it also has the ability to be damaging. Therefore during the Peace it should be possible for someone to not participate in the physical contact without others judging them.

Most humans are good at reading body language. Someone earnestly knelt praying with their hands clenched before them does not want to be touched! There should be such negotiations going on all the time during the peace.

There are also non physical contact ways of doing it. The Indian practice of bowing to each other with hands raised as if in prayer is one. More complex ones such as passing symbols of peace require more organization.

I expect a lot of people to respond to this thread. Whether the ship will generate more heat than light needs to be seen.

Jengie

[ 06. January 2015, 16:46: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
 

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Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on :
 
I too have issues with my immune system so I carry a hand sanitizer wipe and I shake hands with everyone and then use it. It works well for me.

If I see that the celebrant does not use sanitizer or if he or she has a cold and is not being careful about contaminating the elements, then I don't receive. Period.

Among other things, I've seen various priests sometimes wipe their faces with a handkerchief and then continue the communion, wipe their nose with the back of their hand and continue, and press their hand into each person's hand as they receive - yes, their full hand in a cupping motion, hello petri dish of germs!

I realize that this does not concern most people but it could be quite a big deal for someone like me. It is hard enough to not worry about germs on hymn books and bulletins and in the air with so many people gathered together.

SARS was a huge deal here in Canada a few years ago and people did very well for a while but habits have a tendency to shift back into sloppiness on the health care front when there is no immediate need.
 

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Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :
 
I've avoided receiving the bread and wine for over a month for precisely that reason. I don't have an immunity problem, but having had three (two day each) sickness absences from work in the past 4 months I've hit a "caution point", and with the amount of viruses circulating round church right now, I'm not taking the risk.
I was preaching on Sunday so thought I had better receive the bread, if not the wine. I thought a wafer would be OK. However the priest gave me one of the pieces of the big wafer which I had watched her caress pretty thoroughly during the Eucharistic prayers, in between coughing and blowing her nose into an obviously well used tissue from the pocket in her robes.
No hand sanitizer anywhere in sight.
I am playing the organ next week and I intend to stay on the organ bench!
 

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Posted by Chocoholic (# 4655) on :
 
I received an incredulous response from one poster here last year when I said I use hand gel after the peace but I do because I don't want to get sick. A close relative has health problems meaning a common cold can develop into something far worse so don't want to bring home bugs to her.

As a health carer the importance of hand hygiene is something we are acutely aware of.

Alcohol gel for clergy became recommended during the bird flu outbreak but since then some have ditched it. Our old priest used it, our new one doesn't I have just noticed so as I don't really know him (and think a lecture on hand hygiene is not the best foot to start on!) have mentioned it to one of his colleagues who is going to mention it.
I cannot think of a reason not to use it. Surely it is a practical way of showing your love and care for your people? With the average age of some congregations being fairly high, the probability number of immunocompromised members or those with other health problems is going to be be fair.

I am amazed the Church hasn't continued to encourage it's use.

As a general piece of info though, alcohol gel is not effective against noro virus.
 

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Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Catholics will sometimes just nod to each other.
 

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Posted by mengascini (# 17570) on :
 
Thanks for your kind help everyone. We are not alone.........
 

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Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
Simplest solution might be to wear smart thin leather gloves.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
Another possibility is to clasp your two hands together and make a slight bow instead of shaking someone else's hand. I know people who do that.

Moo
 

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Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie jon:

There are also non physical contact ways of doing it. The Indian practice of bowing to each other with hands raised as if in prayer is one. More complex ones such as passing symbols of peace require more organization.

I expect a lot of people to respond to this thread. Whether the ship will generate more heat than light needs to be seen.

Jengie

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gee D:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie jon:

There are also non physical contact ways of doing it. The Indian practice of bowing to each other with hands raised as if in prayer is one. More complex ones such as passing symbols of peace require more organization.

I expect a lot of people to respond to this thread. Whether the ship will generate more heat than light needs to be seen.

Jengie

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There are quite a few Sri Lankans at our church and some of them use this method (also the one Moo refers to I think). It is simple and dignified, gets the message across but is a real participation in the liturgy.

Our Peace certainly does not take 10 minutes - more like 2 or 3, even with a couple of hundred in attendance.

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I think bowing with hands raised in prayer is lovely and dignified.

I don't mind shaking hands with the people immediately surrounding me. I have attended churches where the peace devolves into a general walkabout, with a lot of chitchat.

 

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Posted by crunt (# 1321) on :
 
I like the way that the Peace is passed in Korean Anglican and Catholic churches: we all make several short bows to the people around us as we give and receive the Peace.
 

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Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on :
 
We don't share the peace at my church in Japan, but if we did I expect that most of the congregation would also do so by bowing to others. Greatings as we enter the church are usually done with a bow rather than a hand shake. The hugs when we occasionally share the peace at my Scottish church would certainly not occur in Japan.

Which is entirely a cultural thing, and something which Japan and Korea largely share.
 

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Posted by Chorister (# 473) on :
 
I know of two people who wore gloves, one is aspergers?? and therefore has difficulties with physical contact of any sort; the other had a badly wounded hand from the war, so wore it as protection. We were able to shake hands with them normally once they were wearing the thick leather gloves.
 

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Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :
 
I think a short bow is a perfectly good way to share the peace if you don't want to shake hands. I believe that it is what one does when sharing the peace with the Queen, so it should be good enough for anybody.
 

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