Thread: Mystery Worshipper No. 2822: St Gobhan Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on
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2822: St Gobhan (Seagoe Parish Church), Portadown, Northern Ireland
Just thought I'd point out that 'Danny Boy' is not the Irish National Anthem, lol!
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
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Link to the report. Please remember to supply same when starting a thread about a MW report.
I probably should have fact-checked that bit, but the report was written by a resident of Northern Ireland and what do I, a Yank, know? I think we'll let it stand until the reporter comes forward (if he so wishes) to comment.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
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The tune (as opposed to the words that often go with it) is usually known as "Londonderry Air", at least in hymnbooks. I believe there is some debate as to whether it is a genuine folk-tune or a "composed" one. "Danny Boy" is only one set of words used with the tune, among many.
Certainly in England (I can't speak for NI) it is often used in churches to accompany the words "I cannot tell why he, who angels worship ...". Again, other words are available. The only difficulty is that is has a rather wide range which - depending on the key chosen - either leaves sopranos and tenors growling on the bottom notes, or altos and basses gasping for air on the high ones.
(Piglet, we have need of thee!)
[ 19. February 2015, 14:06: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on
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I've also sung a hymn to the tune of Oh Danny Boy on a few occasions. It always evokes some sniggering from the congregation, as does the hymn that's sung to the tune of Deutschland Deutschland über alles (I forget what it's called).
The strangest I've heard is a hymn that someone put to the theme music of Match of the Day.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
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There is a version of the "Gloria" to the tune of "Eastenders". And why not? It is only following the examples of William Booth and Martin Luther.
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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'The House of the Rising Sun' is in Common Metre. I've heard Amazing Grace sung to it in stead of the more usual tune.
I'm sure many shipmates will have sung a metrical version of Ps 46 God is our strength and refuge to the tune of the March of the Dam Busters.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
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Indeed!
Posted by Pomona (# 17175) on
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My best friend's local Anglican church sings the Gloria to the tune of Ode To Joy. She was raised in an independent charismatic church so had no idea it wasn't the normal setting until I commented on how bizarre it sounded.
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
'The House of the Rising Sun' is in Common Metre. I've heard Amazing Grace sung to it in stead of the more usual tune.
There's a cracking version of this version of Amazing Grace, sung by the Blind Boys of Alabama. Awesome!
(For some reason, I nearly posted "the Bling Boys of Alabama"! Preview post to the rescue)
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
...the hymn that's sung to the tune of Deutschland Deutschland über alles (I forget what it's called).
"Glorious things of thee are spoken" (at least that's what it is in the U.S. Episcopal hymnal).
Posted by kingsfold (# 1726) on
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That tune is Austria IIRC (Glorious things I mean)
Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
There is a version of the "Gloria" to the tune of "Eastenders". And why not? It is only following the examples of William Booth and Martin Luther.
Examples which, at least in Luther's case, are almost entirely mythical.
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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The translation of the words sung to the tune Austria is actually German, German overalls (according to Flanders and Swann).
I'll get me coat....but before I go, it seems to me, from reading the MW Report, that the welcome before the service from other worshippers (if not officials) was quite friendly - so it's a pity the standard wasn't upheld later!
Ian J.
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
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I have joined in on the coach back from Walsingham singing to the tune of the Derry Air the words
Joy to thee, Queen, within thy ancient dowry,
Joy to thee, Queen, for once again thy name...
Not one you'd come across in the C of I. And it's one of those tunes best not sung totally sober.
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on
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quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
2822: St Gobhan (Seagoe Parish Church), Portadown, Northern Ireland
Just thought I'd point out that 'Danny Boy' is not the Irish National Anthem, lol!
Well indeed. I'd find it hard to imagine a hymn set to Amhran na bhFiann - apologies for missing out the fada but it breaks the URL coding - even more so that to the 'Londonderry Air' (the most common words to which were, I believe written in London).
Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The translation of the words sung to the tune Austria is actually German, German overalls (according to Flanders and Swann).
Such a great song..... (the Flanders and Swann one, I mean)
"All the world over, each nation's the same;
They've simply no notion of playing the game.
They argue with umpires, they cheer when they've won;
and they practice beforehand, which ruins the fun!
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
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Just thought.
The national anthem of the United Kingdom is God save the Queen.
In international rugby matches it is however only used when the English team is playing.
The Welsh team use Land of my fathers and the Scots Flower of the Forest.
Would Danny Boy be used in analogous situations, on the basis that God save the Queen or the anthem of the Republic of Ireland, although acceptable to some of the population of the province, would be totally unacceptable to others?
Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on
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Portadown is not in the Irish Republic. So the anthem question is what is the Northern Irish equivalent of Land of my Fathers and Flower of Scotland?
Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on
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Apparently, should they ever win gold at the Commonwealth Games, the Londonderry Air / Danny Boy would be sung for Northern Ireland. But it is not an official national anthem as that would be God Save the Queen. It doesn't happen at the Rugby Six Nations as Ireland and Northern Ireland field one team.
Posted by Sipech (# 16870) on
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Thanks Pigwidgeon. I have a memory like a sieve when it comes to people's names and the titles of hymns.
Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on
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quote:
Would Danny Boy be used in analogous situations, on the basis that God save the Queen or the anthem of the Republic of Ireland, although acceptable to some of the population of the province, would be totally unacceptable to others?
They tend to sing 'Ireland's Call', which is just as well because our national anthem is a hideous mess on many levels.
Posted by Knopwood (# 11596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
...the hymn that's sung to the tune of Deutschland Deutschland über alles (I forget what it's called).
"Glorious things of thee are spoken" (at least that's what it is in the U.S. Episcopal hymnal).
I seem to recall being told that it's blacklisted from the "playlist" for the carillon bells at GTS, Chelsea having a healthy Jewish presence.
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Portadown is not in the Irish Republic.
I know that. I was imagining that a signifcant minority of the population of Northern Ireland would like it to be. And they'd kick up hell to hear God save the Queen.
Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Knopwood:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Sipech:
...the hymn that's sung to the tune of Deutschland Deutschland über alles (I forget what it's called).
"Glorious things of thee are spoken" (at least that's what it is in the U.S. Episcopal hymnal).
I seem to recall being told that it's blacklisted from the "playlist" for the carillon bells at GTS, Chelsea having a healthy Jewish presence.
Which is a bit silly, since the use of the Deutschlandlied preceded the Nazi regime, and indeed it is still the national anthem of Germany.
Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on
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We used to sing "Sing to the Lord a joyful song, Lift up your hearts your voices raise" to the theme to Van der Valk in school.
Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on
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quote:
originally posted by Fr Weber
Which is a bit silly, since the use of the Deutschlandlied preceded the Nazi regime, and indeed it is still the national anthem of Germany.
Yes, it was brought to prominence as the anthem of the attempted revolution of 1848 in Germany, the words an invitation to put Germany as a whole before loyalty to the individual states, a sentiment which at that time was associated with a liberal point of view.
Posted by Rev per Minute (# 69) on
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quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Just thought.
The national anthem of the United Kingdom is God save the Queen.
In international rugby matches it is however only used when the English team is playing.
The Welsh team use Land of my fathers and the Scots Flower of the Forest.
Would Danny Boy be used in analogous situations, on the basis that God save the Queen or the anthem of the Republic of Ireland, although acceptable to some of the population of the province, would be totally unacceptable to others?
A pedant writes:
There is no official anthem of the United Kingdom, just as there is no official flag - 'God Save the Queen/King' is used by custom. As is the usual way here, there is no law that sets an anthem or flag. (The Royal Navy probably has some rules for flag use)
The England football team also uses GSTQ (most of the players probably can't remember the words) but the England team at the Commonwealth Games plays 'Land of Hope and Glory' when they win gold. The Welsh anthem is never sung in English and was the first anthem to be sung before an international sporting match when Wales played New Zealand in 1905.
The issue of the Ireland rugby team has been discussed. Only 'Ireland's Call' is used when the team play abroad, but both that and 'Amhran na bhFiann' are used when they are at home. In contrast to 'Hen Wlad fy Nhadau', that was apparently first written in English as 'The Soldier's Song' (according to Wikipedia, anyway). Ireland has two international football teams so the issue of anthems does not arise.
Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on
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Actually the Scots use Flower of Scotland, a 1960s song penned to commemorate the Scots victory at Bannockburn.
Flowers of the Forest is a much older tune; a lament written for those who died for James IV at Flodden.
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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quote:
The Welsh anthem is never sung in English and was the first anthem to be sung before an international sporting match when Wales played New Zealand in 1905.
I wouldn't be too sure about never ever, although certainly never nowadays. I know that it was sung in English at Cardiff City's FA Cup Final in 192-something, as I used to have a 78rpm recording of it.
Posted by Rev per Minute (# 69) on
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Albertus - I did say "IS never sung in English". It almost certainly was at some point, given the establishment dislike of Welsh until the 1960s or thereabouts. And the Cardiff vs Arsenal FA Cup Final was in 1927, as any Bluebirds supporter will tell you - it may have been sung in English then because it was the English FA and was held at Wembley. Singing in Welsh at the heart of the Empire may have been too much for the authorities to imagine.
We now return you to Ecclesiantics for your regular programming...
Posted by Laud-able (# 9896) on
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It is possible to sing O Jesus, I have promised to The Muppet Song.
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
Albertus - I did say "IS never sung in English". It almost certainly was at some point, given the establishment dislike of Welsh until the 1960s or thereabouts. And the Cardiff vs Arsenal FA Cup Final was in 1927, as any Bluebirds supporter will tell you - it may have been sung in English then because it was the English FA and was held at Wembley. Singing in Welsh at the heart of the Empire may have been too much for the authorities to imagine.
We now return you to Ecclesiantics for your regular programming...
Fairy nuff. I'd also doubt that many Cardiff supporters would have been able to manage it in Welsh in 1927. (27, of course: should know by now. Always get the year mixed up with the White Horse Cup Final which was- now I look it up- 1923.)
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
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quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
That tune is Austria IIRC (Glorious things I mean)
And should be sung to Abbotts Leigh which is a cracking tune by comparison.
Don't the first couple of bars of Austria start the ISIHAC theme tune?
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
That tune is Austria IIRC (Glorious things I mean)
And should be sung to Abbotts Leigh which is a cracking tune by comparison.
No, no, no! That's for "God is love, let heaven adore him". (And don't dare suggest "Blaenwern" for that! It can only go to "Love divine, all excelling" - which, in turn must never be sung to "Hyfrydol").
As far as I'm concerned, anyway!
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by kingsfold:
That tune is Austria IIRC (Glorious things I mean)
And should be sung to Abbotts Leigh which is a cracking tune by comparison.
No, no, no! That's for "God is love, let heaven adore him". (And don't dare suggest "Blaenwern" for that! It can only go to "Love divine, all excelling" - which, in turn must never be sung to "Hyfrydol").
As far as I'm concerned, anyway!
I think my central point is that Austria is a bloody awful tune only suited to National Anthems which in turn are bloody awful things.
Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on
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Oh Karl - not all National Anthems are awful, surely?
I rather like La Marseillaise, especially the bit at the end of the chorus that yearns for the impure blood of our enemies to water the furrows of our fields..... ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Also Het Wilhelmus (The Netherlands) which has a lovely tune, and is not at all martial, even though the Dutch still proclaim their loyalty to the King of Spain whilst singing it...... ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Ian J.
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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And the aforementioned Hen Wlad fy Nhadau. as someone once said (in Welsh)- 'Let us rejoice as Welsh people! We have the best flag- the best anthem- and Rowan Williams!'
[ 23. February 2015, 13:53: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
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So? You used to have J.P.R.Williams!
Posted by Pearl B4 Swine (# 11451) on
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I hate being faced with having to play "O Danny Boy". It's well nigh impossible to get a congregation to hang together. The choices: 1. play at the speed of the cocktail lounge elastic sentimental lament-like style, or 2. crank up the tempo to fox-trot speed and get it over with.
Now, how can people 'love' singing this, and then tell you how they despise The Star-Spangled Banner as being unsingable, too difficult, too wide a range, and the tune originally a tavern song. I think it's a great tune.
What really offends me is the current rage for having a single singer wade through it, mauling the tune with decorations, sliding innovations, ornamental digressions from the tune-- you've all heard what I mean. I'd much rather hear a local high school band (or chorus) give a sincere rendition, sticking to the tune, and rhythm intended. Or- what used to be standard at baseball games, the whole stadium-full of people enthusiastically bawl out the National Anthem, followed by PLAY BALL. And leave Danny Boy to weepy barflies.
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
So? You used to have J.P.R.Williams!
Not only great men in their different fields, but great facial hair too.
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
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The national anthem of Honduras was written to the melody of the trio section of an Austrian march. I always taught it would be funny if an Honduran would ever visit Austria and hear that march being played by a band on the street.
Posted by venbede (# 16669) on
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Actually the tune Austria is the slow movement of a string quartet.
Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on
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quote:
venbede: Actually the tune Austria is the slow movement of a string quartet.
I think we are talking about different things here. I am talking about a march from Austria, not the tune Austria.
Posted by andras (# 2065) on
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Having been impressed by God Save The King (why??) the immortal Haydn created a fine tune to serve the same function for Austria, and subsequently used a subtly modified form in the Emperor string quartet. A wonderful tune, and anyone who disagrees should sit on the naughty step until they develop better taste.
But the best tune for Glorious Things is Lux Eoi, so there!
Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on
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Either way, after 10 years at an Anglican boarding school I will always associate it with "Lord, dismiss/receive us with thy bleh-ess-sing"
Posted by Knopwood (# 11596) on
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Interesting, that's to Sicilian Mariners' hymn in our latest book.
Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Either way, after 10 years at an Anglican boarding school I will always associate it with "Lord, dismiss/receive us with thy bleh-ess-sing"
After 11 years at a Presbyterian day and boarding school, including my time in cadets, I recall Austria as the tune for Life presents a Dismal Picture and thought that you also would.
On a more serious note, I think that the first time Gott erhalte unsere Kaiser* was sung in St Stephen's after 1918 was the funeral for K & K Zita in 1989.
*God save our Emperor.
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