Thread: TechGeek Thread Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.
To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=029017
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
I am so damn tired of my system not working because some bright spark decided to add a "feature" I didn't want and don't need and can't turn off THAT IS FUCKING UP MY SYSTEM WHICH I NEED TO EARN MY DAILY BREAD THANKYOUVERYMUCH! Case in point--I just got an email from HP apologizing for screwing up something at headquarters that apparently reaches OVER the internet and instructs my fucking printer (pardon me, "all in one" grrrrrr like I needed all that?) to STOP WORKING if I don't comply with some fiddly reporting thing to HP. Which of course they got screwed up. If I wasn't a) cheap and b) lazyass, I would have spent a couple hundred dollars trying to fix a problem that wasn't even mine by now.
And now the thing is telling me it can't send a scan to my computer because it can't find the computer. Never mind it just PRINTED from the computer.
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
[ 23. May 2015, 03:36: Message edited by: RooK ]
Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on
:
Yep - computers. I hate them, but mostly I hate that they have the power to make me so hate-filled. It shows that I need/want them, that I rely on them, that I'm powerless in the face of their facelessness, that they're winning somehow. The machines are winning. I had to re-set the router twice just to get this page to load. Lately it seems the connection crashes every time the screen powers down - now why should those things be even slightly related one to another?
Posted by saysay (# 6645) on
:
Yep.
There was a brief period when computers seemed to actually make things better and more efficient.
Now they make me want to move to a tiny house off-grid and have no interaction with humanity.
To be fair, humanity and its insistence on fixing things that weren't broken by breaking things that can't be fixed has something to do with that.
Maybe if I had stuck with Linux?
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
I griped on FB one time that our PC is predictive-- in a bad way. I.e, I can be farting around playing Candy Crush for two hours service completely smooth, , then I check my news feed and see "please pray for me, my dad died." Then I click the link and thaaaat's when the connection decides to go reeeal sloww.
There's also the iPad text jump. You know, when you click on an article, and when you go to hit the " next" button on the slideshow, the page jumps to accomodate a long-- loading banner ad which coincidentally lands under your finger. Oh, how convenient.
[ 15. May 2015, 01:17: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
To be fair, humanity and its insistence on fixing things that weren't broken by breaking things that can't be fixed has something to do with that.
I see you've encountered Windows 8 as well.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Oh God, Windows 8. Spent two days on my PC telling Chrome " Don't touch me there." I had to do a system restore to get it to behave.
And it won't let you watch defrag anymore. Small gripe, I know, but I loved watching defrag.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
My Windows 8 phone keeps trying to install apps that won't work with the hardware of the phone. Yes, I know I haven't installed Skype and it's very nice to talk to people the other side of the world. But, the camera on my phone is on the other side from the screen, so I can't see and be seen at the same time. Please, can you stop reminding me I haven't installed Skype everytime I get into a wi-fi hot spot.
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
We can't watch defrag anymore?!!!?
I have a sad life.
And why in the hell does my e-reader insist on informing me every five minutes that I have no wifi available?
I'm READING, idiot. A downloaded book. It's in memory. Step away from the internet before I hurt you.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
Why go through a window when you can use a door? And those who suggest apples may not know the company is rotten to the core. Just search the company name and tax avoidance and dead workers in China.
HPs will install Linux in about 20 minutes. I buy them off lease for <$200 and there's no software costs ever for anything. For newbies: Linux Mint.
No sympathy. You already know Linux if you know an Android. Or a Chromebook.
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on
:
Hang on. Don't you have to, like, vote for Ron Paul and invest in bitcoins if you use Linux or something? I thought I was cutting it close to the line when I started scripting my Mac and using X11 and the Terminal; much further, and my Good Socialist Credentials™* might have been revoked!
*Note: Ariston may or may not actually be a socialist.It varies on a day-to-day basis and depends largely on how much coffee he's had to drink
Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on
:
Nah, Linux is more anarcho-syndicalism than libertarianism. Ron/Rand Paul won't like it because it doesn't make money. Or gold.
I quite like computers. What I can't stand is working for muppets who don't know how to use one.
Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on
:
Linux works well for High Performance Computing or power users who want to save money, but to recommend it to people struggling with Win / OS X is just cruel.
Computers have reached the threshold of complexity where many problems we have with them are of psychological nature. Not that they have a psyche themselves... But on one hand we are tracking computer performance with our animal/human agent systems (basically a computer is a retarded slave to us), and on the other hand computers provide enough of a canvas by which some other human's psyche interacts with ours, leading to predictable clashes by silicon proxy (yes, some human idiot did think that this user interface was a good idea).
The core problem there is that most computers are still being programmed by computer scientists. And most of them have next to no insight into human psychology. Consequently, clusterfuck.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
That makes so much damn sense that I am consumed with hopelessness.
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
The core problem there is that most computers are still being programmed by computer scientists. And most of them have next to no insight into human psychology. Consequently, clusterfuck.
Actually, I think the core problem is that computers are programmed by idiots who think that changing the interface every few years is a good idea. Windows 8 is a case in point. The interface changed dramatically, all in aid of making your computer look like an unpopular cellphone.
Most things you do (I do) with a computer don't have a direct analogue in the real world, so the interface is going to be artificial. That's OK. Make it discoverable, and learnable, and don't change the groupings of menu options on a whim.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
And it won't let you watch defrag anymore. Small gripe, I know, but I loved watching defrag.
Not just the coloured stripes of XP but, way back in Windows Me, all those tiny little boxes that covered your screen and changed colour as the program went through them ...
like this.
In every other way the Me operating system was a disaster: an unstable "upgrade" tagged onto Ms-Dos. Happy days.
[ 15. May 2015, 09:31: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on
:
Actually the big problem is most of the programmers whether Windows or Mac do not use the interface. They are programmers, they write code. I would not mind betting a good number of them had a very unfriendly form of linux on their machine.
The result is they have no conception of the cost of changing the layout. They think that they should take the latest good design into account and not realise the rest of us have put in hours learning the last design and really do not want to do it for another.
Oh and saying Chromebooks and android are just like using Linux, is like saying Windows is just like using MSDos. I know Microsoft claims to have got rid of it, but it still turns up from time to time.
Alright I use Window, Android, Chromebook, Linux, and MacOS in that order. It goes with my employment territory, but I am not going to start typing linux commands on my Chromebook anytime soon.
Jengie
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
:
On one of my other computers, the one using Win 7, I have a free downloaded defrag programme that allows watching. Defraggler - and I notice that it allows defragging of individual files - I have only ever used it to defrag the drive in the oldfashioned way, because I like watching it. And I was not convinced that Windows was doing a good job of it.
I found it very soothing after a hard day at school to watch the little boxes sorting themselves out. And wondering just exactly what was represented by the little boxes in real terms.
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
I've just spent months learning Unix, and it reminds me of nothing so much as WordPerfect 5.0. As in, "Memorize these zillion commands and you can do whatever you want!" I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason it's never become more user friendly is that the people who've already suffered, whoops! put in the time to learn it want the rest of us to pay the same price.
Posted by ElaineC (# 12244) on
:
The thing I hated most about Unix was its case sensitivity.
I'm now a software test manager and one of the applications I used to test was developed on a Windows based server but the live deployment was to a Unix based server. Nearly every time there was a software release the pictures in the webpage wouldn't display because some the letters in the url were in the wrong case.
Posted by molopata (# 9933) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Linux works well for High Performance Computing or power users who want to save money, but to recommend it to people struggling with Win / OS X is just cruel.
I think you are about a decade out on that assessment. In fact, you can install a Linux system complete with basic office software in less than 30 minutes. Even getting the system fully configured to what I want takes less than two hours from scratch. No, I'm not a techie, it's just that it pales against the full day I used to have to invest for a Windows-Reinstall.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
We started at "my computer is missing basic functionality" and have progressed to "I miss staring at the screen watching little boxes fly past".
I'm dreading the next phase of this thread: "Solitaire's background was a nicer shade of green in Windows 3.1".
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
:
I miss that my computer is not ready when I turn it on. I miss that they have gone from a box which you can actively do things on to a box which you passively consume from. I miss that I never used to have to nurse the fucking thing like it needed life support just to get it to work properly and talk to the things connected to it. I miss that 16k used to be enough for a letter, and programmes used to be things of beauty, wonder and brevity.
Posted by Clint Boggis (# 633) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I've just spent months learning Unix, and it reminds me of nothing so much as WordPerfect 5.0. As in, "Memorize these zillion commands and you can do whatever you want!" I have a sneaking suspicion that the reason it's never become more user friendly is that the people who've already suffered, whoops! put in the time to learn it want the rest of us to pay the same price.
I suspect your "'learning Unix" bears about the same relation to using a modern Linux (many, many versions available, all Free!) as using Windows does to typing MSDOS commands.
Molopta's right. I've found on various occasions over the last several years that installing Linux is rather simpler and quicker than installing Windows. And it's no more difficult to use than learning the foibles of the next version of Windows.
[ 15. May 2015, 14:54: Message edited by: Clint Boggis ]
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Linux works well for High Performance Computing or power users who want to save money, but to recommend it to people struggling with Win / OS X is just cruel.
That is ignorance, stupidity and ideas from years ago. It isn't. Because this is precisely why we use Linux. You get a USB drive put, follow simple directions to put Linux Mint on it. Follow simple directions to boot from USB. Then run from the USB with out installing as long as you like. You can install later. There is no power user. Just something simple. I mention Linux Mint because it is the most Windows like.
Posted by molopata (# 9933) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
We started at "my computer is missing basic functionality" and have progressed to "I miss staring at the screen watching little boxes fly past".
I'm dreading the next phase of this thread: "Solitaire's background was a nicer shade of green in Windows 3.1".
Hmm. From the keyboard of a Hellhost I sense the oblique threat of an official reprimand if we let this thread get too soft. So to get back to the original topic, I don't just miss - I deplore the basic lack of functionality that MS Explorer has when it is waiting for some far-flung data package to arrive. Instead of just parking the problem and letting you get on with doing something else like reading the news or ranting on SoF, it simply freezes and makes you click furiously on a pailed window with a circle going round in circles until whenever it is good and ready to let you get on with what you were desparately needing to do. I wonder what these jackasses are doing in Redmond besides racking in millions.
[ 15. May 2015, 15:30: Message edited by: molopata ]
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
From the keyboard of a Hellhost I sense the oblique threat of an official reprimand if we let this thread get too soft.
We generally don't get official for that, just progressively more bitter and twisted. Eventually we audition for the lead in Sunset Boulevard.
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on
:
What gets me about computers is how much they bring us the petty moronities of life. For instance, I was playing a classical piece today on iTunes to drown out my co-workers droning on about their project. Good, loud, and wordless. Except iTunes keeps putting the damn piece on shuffle which completely ruins it. Yes I know how to turn off shuffle. I have done it repeatedly in various ways, but every time I start that playlist I have to remember again that starting it automatically means turning on shuffle in iTunes' opinion.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
I will now picture you as Norma Desmond forever.
ETA: I will now picture both of you as Norma Desmond forever.
Hey, I am genuinely disgusted at MS's callous dismissal of people's need to perseverate. Who made them the Fun Cops? It's not like there is an overabundance of joy in the world that needs pruning back. Fuck them. FUCK THEM FOR TAKING MY DEFRAG. Bitches.
[ 15. May 2015, 16:43: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
I hate the new upgrade of Opera. Version 12 was all right, it had compatibility issues but it had good points that other browsers don't have, so I naively downloaded the update and found myself looking at Opera 28, a monstrous Chrome-alike that eats memory as if it's going out of style and has lost the special features I enjoyed. The whole thing is so damn bloated that I can't easily run any other programs alongside it.
I'm sick of this endless rat-race of "new versions". Just get the sodding software right in the first place and STOP ENDLESSLY TWEAKING IT.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
:
So. New PC. Factory fresh. Everything working just fine, loading programmes on, transferring documents.
I change the background.
Everything vanishes. Files unindexed. Nothing works.
I mean, seriously?
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Clint Boggis:
And it's no more difficult to use than learning the foibles of the next version of Windows.
And you think that's encouraging? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
:
So, 2 hours later, I'm pretty much where I was when it all went tits up.
I've reinstalled Windows, all the drivers, it thinks I live in the USA, my antivirus software is really confused as to which PC this now is, and I still haven't transferred any of my actual files yet.
Fuck you, Microsoft. Fuck you very much.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
I love my computers. If they had orifices, I'd make that literal. They are my favourite tool - force-multiplying my intelligence and attention in pretty much every endeavour I have.
To complain about futuristic wonders that aid thought and communication is to expose one's fundamental misunderstanding of reality.
TL;DR - you all are fucking tools.
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on
:
IngoB is right. You all don't hate computers, you hate other people. You hate the way what they think is logical isn't to you. You hate the fact that they make mistakes. Basically you're just misanthropes.
So you're in the right place.
For all you defrag fans:
MSDOS Defrag
Win 3.1/Dos
Windows 95
Windows Xp
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
I'm not fucking tools--they haven't brought me roses yet.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
they haven't brought me roses yet.
Surely that's your fault not theirs? If you want roses goto Google and type "roses" you'll get lots of pretty pictures the computer can give you, and lots of places where after entering a 16 digit number you can get sent as many roses as you want.
Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
And now the thing is telling me it can't send a scan to my computer because it can't find the computer. Never mind it just PRINTED from the computer.
My HP printer (sorry, all-in-one) does that too. The computer can find the printer but the printer cannot find the computer. It's something to do with the way the printer (sorry, all-in-one) is configured on the network. Sigh. Although I've the training to work out why it cannot see the computer, I also have the experience to know that it will be painful to try to fix it, so I haven't yet bothered.
Quick work-around 1: Launch the scanner utility on the computer instead. The computer can find the printer and you set the scan running from the computer. Simples.
Quick work-around 2: Stick a memory stick into the printer, scan to the memory stick, stick the memory stick into the computer.
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
Thank you!
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
For all you defrag fans:
MSDOS Defrag
Win 3.1/Dos
Windows 95
Windows Xp
This is terrifying on so many levels.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
What terrifies me is how my heart just leapt. i am a sad, sad person.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
What impressed me was how much free space those drives had. My memories are defragging drives with less than 10% of the drive capacity unused. And, with XP it always kept restarting so never managed more than a few percent of the defrag.
The exception was the Win 3.11 defrag. So many bad clusters. That drive was dead, why was it even still in use? Get a new drive and copy your files over before they're lost.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
I'm glad you said that about XP. The restarts would drive me into a fury. 'Course it didn't help that I would put off defragging forever.
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on
:
Why would you put off defragging? So satisfying, and on XP and older Windows OSes pairs nicely with your third glass of plonk.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Just run of the mill forgetting to do it.
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on
:
Not enough plonk. Obviously. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
That is ignorance, stupidity and ideas from years ago. It isn't. Because this is precisely why we use Linux. You get a USB drive put, follow simple directions to put Linux Mint on it. Follow simple directions to boot from USB. Then run from the USB with out installing as long as you like. You can install later. There is no power user. Just something simple. I mention Linux Mint because it is the most Windows like.
Yadda, yadda. The Linux desktop is as dead now as it ever was. Surely lots of choices and everything for free would win the day? Nope. Turns out people want structure and stability, need learned patterns to be effective. Furthermore, if you have lots of people producing lots of free software, then that's nice. It's also a UI mess. Some people find it fun to pick their way through the mess. Most people don't. Finally, it's a group thing. It is simply attractive to do what everybody else does, and for good reasons - like getting support easily when things fail.
Linux in the form of Android and Unix in the form of iOS dominate the mobile phone market, handsomely. Why? Because of Google and Apple, respectively, of course. You need the big player to push the standardisation. Perhaps Google will gang up with Valve to take on Microsoft on the PC, then there will be a Linux desktop that's worth talking about. Otherwise it will remain a marginal geek thing. Frankly, I think the window of opportunity has closed. Win 8 would have been the perfect time to take on Microsoft, looks like they are correcting themselves with Win 10. Between that and OS X: RIP Linux desktop.
Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
I love my computers. If they had orifices, I'd make that literal. They are my favourite tool ...
TL;DR - you all are fucking tools.
You are jealous, because we are doing what you want to do?
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
God looks to you for guidance oh worshipful ingbo. You make the point then declare your righteousness oh pope. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
The pope of hardware sex?
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
ita quod homo est Dominus coierit cum uxore copiam homini mulierem instrumentum et annuntiaturus XXXIV regere secundum
[thus the lord decreed that a man should lie with his tool as a man who has no access to a woman, and announce it in accordance to rule 34]
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
This time really:
Laughs tea out his nose.
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
The pope of hardware sex?
No, software, 3.5" floppy.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
Ah, yes, microsoft.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
Norton supply what they call a "Smart firewall" in their internet security package. The intention of this, I am led to believe, is to block malicious programs from accessing the internet and sharing your bank details with all and sundry.
What it does on my computer is very smart. It has decided that Google Chrome and Internet Explorer are malicious programs (actually, I could believe that with IE, as the version shipped with Windows 8.1 is even worse than the earlier versions I've had the 'privilege' to use), and so blocks them from accessing the web. Which makes for a very productive internet experience!
Posted by molopata (# 9933) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
That is ignorance, stupidity and ideas from years ago. It isn't. Because this is precisely why we use Linux. You get a USB drive put, follow simple directions to put Linux Mint on it. Follow simple directions to boot from USB. Then run from the USB with out installing as long as you like. You can install later. There is no power user. Just something simple. I mention Linux Mint because it is the most Windows like.
Yadda, yadda. [DEATH TO LINUX!!!]
Ingo, have actually ever seriously tried to use a recent version of Linux?
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on
:
Got a virus? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Hate distractions? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Work at multiple computers and like consistency? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Can't stand Windows 8 or that Godawful useless new version of Word one more day? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Ancient, creeky computer with NT you got stuck with won't run a browser gmail recognizes as one that it does, in fact, work with? Thumb drive with Puppy.
Awful, worthless, lazy, incompetent, stupid boss who takes credit for work you did (unpaid, by the way) while he was napping/chatting on facebook/shopping on eBay? Boot CD with Puppy goes in when he goes home at 3, feign ignorance when he comes in after 10.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Actually, I think the core problem is that computers are programmed by idiots who think that changing the interface every few years is a good idea. Windows 8 is a case in point.
Please. Loads of users uttered the whinge "MS never changes! Win 3 to 7 are just variations. MS can't do innovation" when they do, everyone cries" OMG! They changed! Why did they change?!"
Win 8 isn't perfect, but it is the best cross desktop/touchscreen/mobile interface on the market. Needs work but is better and more innovative (on mobile)than apple or android. It is an actual interface, not merely a container for icons.
Difficult to learn? My nephew, who learned computers on Win 7 had no difficulty switching to Win 8. He also has no problem with Linux. Children, IME, have no problems switching. I wonder what the true hardware/software problem is?
quote:
The interface changed dramatically, all in aid of making your computer look like an unpopular cellphone.
I have an iPhone for one reason. Apps. And that is the reason Windows phones aren't popular. Microsoft don't seem to get that. And because they also don't get, with minor exception, advertising.
Apple get advertising, that is their true genius. Their famous 1984 commercial, though, is hilarious. The mindless, hypnotised drones watching the screen? Those are Apple devotes. The Windows users are outside, Driving to work.*
I'm no Microsoft cheerleader, I've a long list of complaints as well. But they do get things right, sometimes. And Win 8 has was a step in the right direction.
*The Linux users? You can't see them. They are busy creating a small, parallel society underground. Occasionally popping up to roam the streets caring signs upon which are printed the words "Repent oh Ye Users of the Commercial OS! The Linux is Nigh"!
The girl with the hammer? ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
She is imaginary. She is the embodiment of the fantasy each different OS user has of themselves.
[ 18. May 2015, 15:38: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
Ingo, have actually ever seriously tried to use a recent version of Linux?
Depends on what you mean by "recent", and what you mean by "use". I use Linux frequently, but "command line" on HPC systems. I haven't tried installing a Linux system for personal "desktop" usage in about five years. But this is a university, it's not like you don't see Linux desktop installs around.
Anyway, I've been into computing long enough to have heard all the many wonderful things you may wish to claim about the Linux desktop. They haven't made a difference concerning adoption then, they will not make a difference now. We can have the same stupid discussion in five years again, because the Linux desktop isn't going to reach critical mass through people like you or me. It would need a serious big player push. And soon. Because personally speaking, now that I can install most free software from Linux with MacPorts / Fink / Homebrew under OS X, my motivation to mess around with Linux has dropped near zero. Indeed, quite a few top programs (like GIMP, VLC, Kodi, ...) now run native on OS X.
A lot of the academics / students that used to have a dual boot Win / Linux now run around with a Mac laptop. They still need to VM or Bootcamp Win, but for the most part they do not need Linux to do "Unix stuff" any longer, nor do they need it to run "free" software. The only good thing for the Linux desktop of late has been Valve committing to SteamOS. Maybe an influx of gamers will make difference...
The only other thing (besides a big player push) that IMHO could turn the tables is some major privacy breach or some really crippling DRM from Apple or Microsoft. Since business interests dominate for them, it is possible that they will greedily over-milk their cash cow until it dies. But look just how death-resistant Win has proven to be. Microsoft really has to ram a stake through Win's heart, and chop off its head, and spray the remains with silver bullets from a Gatling gun to destroy their market share.
[ 18. May 2015, 15:53: Message edited by: IngoB ]
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
quote:
ingbo
I haven't tried installing a Linux system for personal "desktop" usage in about five years.
So you don't know what you are talking about. Ignorant nutter gives bogus opinion.
[ 18. May 2015, 21:01: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]
Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
So you don't know what you are talking about. Ignorant nutter gives bogus opinion.
So what part of what I wrote above is actually affected by my last install having been Kubuntu about five years ago? What would make all the difference if I had installed say contemporary Linux Mint yesterday?
Here's another problem for Linux: I used to install Linux on machines as their "final hoorah", when the next version of Win would just be too much. But the hardware race is very much slowing down. How often is there a need to buy a new computer nowadays to run one's software? Even games are not pushing the hardware envelope as strongly as before, but do you really think that a PC that can run Win 7 will not be able to handle Win 10? And Win 10 will be a free upgrade for Win 7/8 users...
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
Oh sorry. You know everything about it. Obviously you know what you are on about.
Posted by Thyme (# 12360) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Win 8 isn't perfect, but it is the best cross desktop/touchscreen/mobile interface on the market. Needs work but is better and more innovative (on mobile)than apple or android. It is an actual interface, not merely a container for icons.
Difficult to learn? My nephew, who learned computers on Win 7 had no difficulty switching to Win 8. He also has no problem with Linux. Children, IME, have no problems switching. I wonder what the true hardware/software problem is?
Thank you lilBuddha, I thought liking Windows especially 8 and 8.1 was my personal shameful secret. I do like it. And for my purposes their Surface range of tablet/laptop hybrids are miles better than an ipad.
I like Office 365 as well. I tried Open Office and as soon as I asked it to do something a bit more complicated than writing a document and printing it it gave up. Having spent hours and hours trying to make it do this task I got Office 365 and it did the task in a few minutes.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
Thank you lilBuddha,
*%$#^@!!! Was hoping to piss people off.
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
I thought liking Windows especially 8 and 8.1 was my personal shameful secret. I do like it. And for my purposes their Surface range of tablet/laptop hybrids are miles better than an ipad.
The Surface tablets are brilliant! The newest tablet version is a real hybrid, not a giant smartphone without the phone bit. And the Surface Pro is a terrific convertible computer. Microsoft hardware product development team really do get it. The Zune was an under-appreciated item as well.
Suck it iFruit zombies! Without the Zune, your iPod would be shite. It had better fidelity, better video, more format choice and a better interface. Horrible name and marketing. Really MS, where in the Hell do you hire your marketing team?
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Win 8 isn't perfect, but it is the best cross desktop/touchscreen/mobile interface on the market.
This might be true. But I don't want a cross-desktop/mobile interface. A desktop is fundamentally a different interface from a phone / touchscreen. (A TV / media center thing is pretty similar to a phone, though).
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
Was, grandfather, was.
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
I don't WANT a tablet style interface on my desktop. Way too much sliding, scrolling, whatever, and not arranged logically anyway. If you do work that requires you to have a dozen programs open in 5 minutes time, that's a royal pain in the ass. Now if I were just playing around, or had to do with a single program, I could see the attraction.
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I don't WANT a tablet style interface on my desktop.
LCs of the world unite ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Was, grandfather, was.
Ooh, look at you being all young and edgy.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Was, grandfather, was.
Ooh, look at you being all young and edgy.
Not edgy, just not so near the grave that I clutch anything familiar to avoid falling in.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
I thought liking Windows especially 8 and 8.1 was my personal shameful secret. I do like it.
I've got Win 8.1 on my laptop (which I use functionally as a desktop anyway), and it's not a problem to use. And, putting all the programs I use in a nice thematic arrangement on the apps screen makes opening up a different program much easier than on Win XP and 7 (where, if you hadn't used it recently you had to go through a menu structure of "All Programs" then usually what you want is within a subfolder after then. It was a bit of a faff with a mouse, next to impossible with the pointer thingy on a laptop or a touch screen. It's so easy to hit the WIndows button on the keyboard and then just click on the icon of the program I want, even with the built in 'mouse' on the laptop.
The only problem is that they didn't incorporate backwards compatibility for some devices. I use several devices with a PL2303 chip in them, work fine in Win7 but no driver for Win8 - I don't know why the Win7 driver can't be supported in Win8.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Was, grandfather, was.
Ooh, look at you being all young and edgy.
Not edgy, just not so near the grave that I clutch anything familiar to avoid falling in.
I don't think my 13-year-old nephew likes Windows 8.
Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Actually the big problem is most of the programmers whether Windows or Mac do not use the interface. They are programmers, they write code. I would not mind betting a good number of them had a very unfriendly form of linux on their machine.
That's not fair! Most programmers use the system they develop for.
You want someone to blame for programs that are hard and illogical to use? Blame clients who want it done next week, and then change their mind on what 'it' is on Thursday. Blame project managers who go along with that rather than push back, and then tell their developers to work overtime for a while to make it happen. Blame everyone who promises to work miracles on crazy deadlines, then delivers something half-arsed. Blame anyone who doesn't know the difference between a graphic designer and an interaction designer, and commissions the former to do the latter's job.
Blame programmers in general, for not forming a union, gaining some professional pride, and telling their bosses that it is unreasonable to demand the impossible. But don't blame any one individual programmer — fighting against this industry alone would be a quick way to get fired!
It sucks to deliver a bad, rushed, cobbled together app. But the situation wasn't set up by the programmer. It's like blaming the cashier because the you don't like the range of merchandise in a shop.
Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on
:
Well I can tell you seriously that a lot of re-writing of the student registration system happened the year after we put the programmers who wrote it on the registration desks. They were there because we desperately needed people to work on the desks, not so they would get to use the system.
Jengie
[ 20. May 2015, 14:28: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
Response to Amorya:
Well, no. Not to say all the problems you state don't exist, they do. Just that programmers, left to their own devices, would not develop some wonderful, user-friendly interface.
Not saying they are more fucked up than any other part of the system, just that they are not less.
[ 20. May 2015, 14:33: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Actually the big problem is most of the programmers whether Windows or Mac do not use the interface. They are programmers, they write code. I would not mind betting a good number of them had a very unfriendly form of linux on their machine.
That's not fair! Most programmers use the system they develop for.
You want someone to blame for programs that are hard and illogical to use? Blame clients who want it done next week, and then change their mind on what 'it' is on Thursday. Blame project managers who go along with that rather than push back, and then tell their developers to work overtime for a while to make it happen. Blame everyone who promises to work miracles on crazy deadlines, then delivers something half-arsed. Blame anyone who doesn't know the difference between a graphic designer and an interaction designer, and commissions the former to do the latter's job.
Blame programmers in general, for not forming a union, gaining some professional pride, and telling their bosses that it is unreasonable to demand the impossible. But don't blame any one individual programmer — fighting against this industry alone would be a quick way to get fired!
It sucks to deliver a bad, rushed, cobbled together app. But the situation wasn't set up by the programmer. It's like blaming the cashier because the you don't like the range of merchandise in a shop.
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
[ 20. May 2015, 14:37: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
And I'd wager for every one of those, there was an awkward conversation with a manager:
"We need that data file loading code finished this week! What's it's status?"
"It's mostly working, but we need to make sure it can cope with moving the file without having to reinstall the app."
"How long will that take?"
"I'm not sure… a couple of days?"
"That's too long. How many customers are likely to move data files about?"
"Erm…"
"1%? 10?"
"More like 1%. But…"
"Leave it, it's not important. We'll come back to it for version 2."
*programmer goes back to desk, well aware that nobody will ever revisit this for version 2, but that there are more important things to push back on, such as how the login flow currently rejects anyone with accented characters in their name.*
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
Good gods, this is all so bullshit I don't know who to deride first.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
And I'd wager for every one of those, there was an awkward conversation with a manager:
"We need that data file loading code finished this week! What's it's status?"
"It's mostly working, but we need to make sure it can cope with moving the file without having to reinstall the app."
"How long will that take?"
"I'm not sure… a couple of days?"
"That's too long. How many customers are likely to move data files about?"
"Erm…"
"1%? 10?"
"More like 1%. But…"
"Leave it, it's not important. We'll come back to it for version 2."
*programmer goes back to desk, well aware that nobody will ever revisit this for version 2, but that there are more important things to push back on, such as how the login flow currently rejects anyone with accented characters in their name.*
Why worry? Is anyone ever going to test the bloody thing before it goes live? No, they wait until it fails, usually last thing Friday then get in a panic demanding an even more hurried fix (plus the head of John the Baptist on a plate).
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
Whatever the platform, i.e., the operating system, the future should be interoperability. Things should just go. If you want to tinker you should be able to, but there should be no requirement to do so.
I like the open source model of software as well. Which is free as in beer. If something does not run right, others can tinker with it and fix it.
My office software and hardware costs have gone from ~$10K per year to less than $1000 by running everything open source and not caring what devices or operating systems people want to us. Security is taken care of by one-time passwords.
Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
[QUOTE]
...Difficult to learn? My nephew, who learned computers on Win 7 had no difficulty switching to Win 8. He also has no problem with Linux. Children, IME, have no problems switching. .
Children do not, or ought not to, use the computer for their daily employment - they play with them. Being forced to take several days out of work without notice, with people waiting for you to learn a new system, and then finding that some of your critical software will no longer run is as stupid and unnecessary as disabling the engine in your car because the manufacturer wants to sell you a new one before you have any need for it. The computer is a power tool, confound it, a domestic appliance, not an end in itself.
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
And I'd wager for every one of those, there was an awkward conversation with a manager:
"We need that data file loading code finished this week! What's it's status?"
"It's mostly working, but we need to make sure it can cope with moving the file without having to reinstall the app."
"How long will that take?"
"I'm not sure… a couple of days?"
"That's too long. How many customers are likely to move data files about?"
"Erm…"
"1%? 10?"
"More like 1%. But…"
"Leave it, it's not important. We'll come back to it for version 2."
*programmer goes back to desk, well aware that nobody will ever revisit this for version 2, but that there are more important things to push back on, such as how the login flow currently rejects anyone with accented characters in their name.*
That excuse might just wash for the data directory move, but there's no excuse for writing code that demands write access to HKLM\Software or %PROGRAMFILES%\ at run time in the first place. Just don't. Ever.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
Children do not, or ought not to, use the computer for their daily employment - they play with them. Being forced to take several days out of work without notice, with people waiting for you to learn a new system,
Hire people who are less stupid. Seriously, it isn't rocket surgery.
And your currently beloved OS faced the same change in the past. People survived.
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
and then finding that some of your critical software will no longer run
OK, it is annoying when the software you have won't run on the new OS. And sometimes it is the fault of the OS. But forever needing to support legacy shite is one thing that keeps MS in the past and causes many, many, many problems.
And again, users users have been complaining for years about lack of real change and bugs and patches.
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
is as stupid and unnecessary as disabling the engine in your car because the manufacturer wants to sell you a new one before you have any need for it.
The flip side of this is you would be still knapping flint with antler bone and binding it to a stick with rawhide strips if your philosophy prevailed.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
:
There may have been a very good set of reasons why people went on knapping flint long after the introduction of metal tools. Which they did.
Heck, I still use unknapped flint up the garden if I can't find a purpose made tool to hand. Probably not a good argument, that one, though, because it's to do with my wanting the job done now this minute and not wanting to put everything down and go and find the tool. Laziness in other words. My garden is over full of flints. Some of which someone seems to have worked on for me, though not to museum standard.
But back in the past, reasons would have included:
1. Flint was sharper.
2. Flint did the job better.
3. Individual users could produce their own tools without having to go to the supplier (the smith) for a new one.
4. Individual users could maintain their own tools without having to go to technical support (the smith again).
5. Flint was cheaper.
6. Flint was not constantly being redesigned, superseding the previous version and requiring completely new skills. It was possible, until truly modern man came along, to use the same design successfully for thousands of years. And even then, no-one would insist that you immediately adopted the new cutting edge version in order for consistency across the region.
7. Flint did not result in all tool supply being monopolised by a few producers who controlled what you could use.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
And yet, we are communicating on computers, not passing messages through traveling merchants.
Posted by anoesis (# 14189) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Not so fast. It's programmers who write software that demands write access to protected areas of the file system at run time. It's programmers who write software that cannot cope with a move of a file data store without a reinstallation of the entire app. God knows why, unless they enjoy making life hell for system admins and forcing insecure configurations for their crap to run.
And I'd wager for every one of those, there was an awkward conversation with a manager:
"We need that data file loading code finished this week! What's it's status?"
"It's mostly working, but we need to make sure it can cope with moving the file without having to reinstall the app."
"How long will that take?"
"I'm not sure… a couple of days?"
"That's too long. How many customers are likely to move data files about?"
"Erm…"
"1%? 10?"
"More like 1%. But…"
"Leave it, it's not important. We'll come back to it for version 2."
*programmer goes back to desk, well aware that nobody will ever revisit this for version 2, but that there are more important things to push back on, such as how the login flow currently rejects anyone with accented characters in their name.*
I can attest to this, vicariously. My partner is a software development manager and has worked for several companies who are marketing products for which you would think "It works - all the time" would be an absolutely critical specification, but no, as far as I can tell, the only thing that prevails in the minds of bean-counters are - well, beans. He has reached a point where he is perpetually stressed out and unhappy, and as far as I can tell, the major contributors to this are a.) as a technical person, extreme discomfort with having accept things being done badly in a technical sense, and b.) as a manager, extreme discomfort with having to ask/require/encourage other technical people to lower their standards and just get on and do things quickly and shoddily. And then c.) having to put in considerable work to shore up all the poor morale that this approach causes among technical people. It's so utterly fucked up it's almost more fucked up than working for a quasi-governmental institution in which everything happens unimaginably slowly because even though practically everyone working in the place has a higher degree, no-one can so much as crack their thumbs without consulting a policy manual, which is a reasonable description of my own place of work.
Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stercus Tauri:
[qb]
is as stupid and unnecessary as disabling the engine in your car because the manufacturer wants to sell you a new one before you have any need for it.
The flip side of this is you would be still knapping flint with antler bone and binding it to a stick with rawhide strips if your philosophy prevailed.
Note the key phrase:
...the manufacturer wants to sell you a new one before you have any need for it.
I am not so stupid that I can't recognise the need for a more capable tool for the job that I want to do, but I prefer to make that decision for myself - as I have done many times - and not have it forced on me at a time when work will be seriously disrupted.
The concept of real work and delivering real things to real customers in real time is difficult to explain to people whose gods are software companies and computers that can only be satisfied with living sacrifices.
But you can ignore all this. I'll get over it - until next time.
(We haven't got any flint around here. It's mostly limestone where it isn't gravel beds, so we have to make do with the antlers and bones).
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
Here's a question.
Who is forcing you to get a new computer? If you are satisfied with the one you have got, if it runs the software you rely on, you're familiar with the OS etc, why change?
If you get new work that requires a particular piece of software that needs a computer with more resources, a particular OS etc then get that computer. It doesn't stop you continuing to use the old one - at least for the period of time it takes you to port stuff over to the new one with minimal disruption.
OK, there are issues of maintaining older computers. The steam driven 486s running some instruments we have are probably at the end of their maintainability - getting replacement parts to keep them going is getting difficult. But, that's probably an extreme example.
But, if you insist on getting the latest OS as soon as it's released and upgrading all your software every few months ... well, if that's what you want then you will have to live with the inconvenience that causes. On the other hand, Windows XP didn't stop working just because Microsoft stopped issuing updates.
Posted by Stercus Tauri (# 16668) on
:
I'd been hanging on to an HP desktop that had a Pentium or equivalent, and it ran like a train with XP, flawlessly, for ages. There were eventually hardware problems that had to be fixed when some motherboard electrolytic capacitors visibly began to fail, but the real problems started when I had to install XP SP3 to be able to use Office 2010, and then numerous functions failed. It was odd that both XP machines that I used (the other is a netbook) began to behave erratically after continuing XP updates and neither would boot up normally or keep running. So a new machine was essential, meaning having to use W7, and henceforth my familiar CAD program and a number of others in daily use malfunctioned or ceased to function at all. There really wasn't any way to go back and recreate the old machine and I had no wish to do so, but this is why I am so aggravated at having the timing taken out of my own hands.
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
On the other hand, Windows XP didn't stop working just because Microsoft stopped issuing updates.
No, but there's reason they issue security patches on the operating systems they are supporting, and there are potential negative consequences to continuing to run a OS which they are no longer supporting. Google is still supporting Chrome for XP, but that will stop at the end of this year. A non-tech-savvy person should not at this point be running XP on a computer hooked up to the internet.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
:
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
I am still using XP on a netbook and a laptop, both of which have no problems online (both have up-to-date antivirus etc). The netbook could not run with SP3 as it filled up the C: drive (which was not a partition, before anyone mentions that) with that and all the updates, and then wouldn't work. So it's on SP2 and not all of the available updates, which it has squirreled away somewhere but I prevent it from installing. And it's fine.
It should have been Linux, but I was in the middle of work when my laptop needed repair and I didn't have time to learn a new OS, so I got the XP version instead.
I have a number of things which will only talk to XP - I really don't see why I should have to "upgrade" to something that doesn't do what I want it to do and which the old stuff does, just because someone somewhere wants to sell me a whole new suite of kit. And the more tech-savvy people become pensioners, but want to go on doing computery stuff, the more people are going to complain about having to spend money they don't have to keep on doing what they have been doing just fine.
And yes, I agree that that new microlith device is just brilliant for trimming sinews for sewing clothes, but it is going to take ages to try and cut up that mammoth with it.
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
Because no-one, no, not even Linux' developers, has yet managed to create such an OS.
Posted by Amazing Grace (# 95) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
Because no-one, no, not even Linux' developers, has yet managed to create such an OS.
And in the unlikely event that it should happen, it will probably just be temporary anyway till someone finds a hole.
Posted by Ariel (# 58) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
Because if people only bought one version and no updates then manufacturers would go out of business.
The whole thing is a rat-race. It's designed to keep you constantly spending: more and more increasingly bloated software at relatively frequent intervals, download lots of updates, until your computer can no longer handle it, so buy a new computer, and get a new operating system. Spend, spend, spend. You can only hold out for so long before the error messages flash up - "You're using an out of date version of [Something]. You won't be able to access our site/download whatever/open these files/do whatever you want until you shell out a lot more money for a new version which you probably won't like."
They could, with some care, produce versions that last longer. They just don't want to.
I'm getting sick of glowing screens, clattering keyboards, endless tiny mouse movements, a surplus of logons and passwords that all have to be changed at frequent intervals, clicking on tiny Xs, buttons that say "OK", pages that hang, stupid and unnecessary timeouts on things that don't need it, menus that begin options with "My...", and constant updates.
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
So why don't they deliver software that doesn't need security patches in the first place?
Because if people only bought one version and no updates then manufacturers would go out of business.
[snip]
I'm getting sick of glowing screens, clattering keyboards, endless tiny mouse movements, a surplus of logons and passwords that all have to be changed at frequent intervals, clicking on tiny Xs, buttons that say "OK", pages that hang, stupid and unnecessary timeouts on things that don't need it, menus that begin options with "My...", and constant updates.
At work we are still on Office 2003, everything we use is there, and the IT dept sees to maintenance.
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
:
I'm still running Office 2003, with the Office 2007 compatibility pack on a Windows 7 Home Premium laptop, and everything is fine. I see no reason to upgrade from Office 2003. I did try Office 2007 but hated it and put 2003 back on. The laptop came with Office 2010 -- it just has to be "activated" (and paid for, of course) but I see no reason to do so.
[ 21. May 2015, 20:37: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
:
And I hate ads that follow up on places I have been looking at. And now I don't know how they are doing it. I don't use Google. I don't use IE. I use Firefox and DuckDuckGo, and I can't find anything that works like whatever I did in IE and Google to stop it. Except deleting a load of cookies one at a time. I don't want to delete all of them, obviously. There were a suspicious number with "ad" in them. I'd like them never to arrive.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
Many years ago there was an amusing bit of comedy about what it'd be like if any other industry tried to sell you things that weren't quite ready yet or needed continued 'upgrades', the way that computer folk do.
I think they used cars as an analogy. Although of course one does maintenance on a car, that's not quite the same as either "we'll add doors later" or "we'll keep putting so many extra features on your car each time we service it that eventually you'll need a bigger engine".
I was mightily pissed off when I upgraded my iPhone to iOS 7. Look at all the exciting extra bits of motion! The lurid colours! All the stuff that hasn't actually changed the functionality, but is making my old phone struggle to keep up!
I found out later that a number of reviews had recommended not upgrading to iOS7 on my model of phone, even though Apple offered the upgrade. But of course by then it was too late.
My phone is now slightly over 4 years old. I'm planning on buying a new one soon. But occasionally I remember that my old one might not have some of its current problems if not for the 'helpful' upgrade it received.
[ 22. May 2015, 03:06: Message edited by: orfeo ]
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Many years ago there was an amusing bit of comedy about what it'd be like if any other industry tried to sell you things that weren't quite ready yet or needed continued 'upgrades', the way that computer folk do.
I think they used cars as an analogy. Although of course one does maintenance on a car, that's not quite the same as either "we'll add doors later" or "we'll keep putting so many extra features on your car each time we service it that eventually you'll need a bigger engine".
It's here.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
Re MS Office. There's no reason to use any versions of paid office word processing or office suit of products. LibreOffice.org provides no cost opensource that runs on my business's server just fine. They wanted some $600 per user yearly licensing costs for MS products which is a lot of cash if you've many users. You can save in the xml docx versions of documents in Libreoffice if you want but the documents are up to 30% larger from odt which is open document format. MS products will open odt. OpenOffice is the closed source version of the same office suite.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
I've got OpenOffice installed on this computer (personal, so no one else to pay for MS Office). It does some really strange things opening PowerPoint files and Word documents (especially .docx ones). OK, so if someone sends me a .docx by email I can read it ... but the result isn't pretty. Plain text is OK, just don't insert a figure, table or equation.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
It does some really strange things opening PowerPoint files and Word documents (especially .docx ones).
Yes, we have a laptop we use for presentations in our church. It's fine for ordinary use, but:
- it doesn't like quite a lot of the fonts we use, so substitutes others which might be a different size;
- it doesn't like fancy slides and animations;
- if showing a continuous loop, you get an extra "blank" slide each time round.
I tend to bring in my own laptop most times ...
Posted by Paul. (# 37) on
:
The irony about the car joke is that cars are increasingly computerised and it's due to go to a whole new level with Apple and Google (and others) vying to be the standard "car OS" - and that's before we get to self-driving cars.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
Perhaps you shouldn't have told me that - I picked up my new car TODAY!
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
While it is possible to locate the fault with documents with Word as with Open/libre Office, though I might lean towards blaming Word and Microsoft because when thorough inter-operability was being discussed, Microsoft asserted its standard:
quote:
The ISO standardization of [Microsoft] Office Open XML was controversial and embittered, with much discussion both about the specification and about the standardization process.
Further info Is DOCX really an open standard?
quote:
ISO ... adopted the ODF (Open Document Format) back in 2006 to solve the document standardization crisis. This is the format that is used by Libre and Open office, along with most other open office suites. Such a format becoming successful would of course threaten Microsoft's already established monopoly ...[so].. they decided to create their own open standard with [docx]... when you save a document in MS Office 2010 or prior in any of the ‘X’ formats, you are not saving them in the advertised OpenXML format. This document will hence NOT be properly readable by other software such as Libre and Open Office and they will make changes to the document when they are opened and saved within them. The problem hence lies with the former [i.e. Microsoft docx], not the latter.
All of this said, I get that people married to MS Word will complain about documents not in its format. But I'm not willing to pay to fix a 'not my problem'. Saving documents in .doc or proper .odt (Open Document Format Text Document) which is used by every other word processor. Though I generally ship documents to others in .pdf instead.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
It's also amusingly wrong-headed to think that cars are flawless when put into production, or that they haven't changed massively during their evolution. Door locks, requiring keys to start, seatbelts, bumpers, headlights, windshields, windshield wipers, ABS, airbags, crumple zones, side-impact reinforcements - all bloatware that makes cars heavier than before! Waaaah!
The main difference between software and classic physical products is the evolutionary cycle time.
Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on
:
Yes.
Model T Ford: 540kg.
Fiat Topolino: 550kg.
Morris Minor: 775kg.
VW Up! (a tiny car): 950kg.
Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
While it is possible to locate the fault with documents with Word as with Open/libre Office, though I might lean towards blaming Word and Microsoft because when thorough inter-operability was being discussed, Microsoft asserted its standard:
quote:
The ISO standardization of [Microsoft] Office Open XML was controversial and embittered, with much discussion both about the specification and about the standardization process.
Further info Is DOCX really an open standard?
quote:
ISO ... adopted the ODF (Open Document Format) back in 2006 to solve the document standardization crisis. This is the format that is used by Libre and Open office, along with most other open office suites. Such a format becoming successful would of course threaten Microsoft's already established monopoly ...[so].. they decided to create their own open standard with [docx]... when you save a document in MS Office 2010 or prior in any of the ‘X’ formats, you are not saving them in the advertised OpenXML format. This document will hence NOT be properly readable by other software such as Libre and Open Office and they will make changes to the document when they are opened and saved within them. The problem hence lies with the former [i.e. Microsoft docx], not the latter.
All of this said, I get that people married to MS Word will complain about documents not in its format. But I'm not willing to pay to fix a 'not my problem'. Saving documents in .doc or proper .odt (Open Document Format Text Document) which is used by every other word processor. Though I generally ship documents to others in .pdf instead.
That's odd. When my roofer sent stuff in docx, my old MS programs wouldn't open it, but StarOffice (also OpenOffice) would. They are the only people who send me stuff in that format.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
The TechGeek thread is thataway.
*points randomly away from Hell*
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
I beg to differ.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
You Bastard.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Was, grandfather, was.
It's time for Grandpa to have another whinge. Well, the same whinge, really. This time, it's the new flat-look trend for UIs. On a phone, that probably makes sense. Your phone has a limited number of pixels, and a limited size.
On a full-size computer screen, it doesn't. 3-D cues add information. Removing them in aid of making everything a phone is unhelpful. (But yes, 3-D can be taken too far *cough* Motif *cough*).
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
This time, it's the new flat-look trend for UIs.
I am personally quite relieved that the irritating anachronism of skeuomorphic design is finally abating. There much more efficient ways to communicate functional transitions without wasting bandwidth by pretending to be a physical object. It is offensive to my aesthetic of form & function to bother with such mincing affectations. Especially when they're something awful, like pretending to be leather-bound.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
It is offensive to my aesthetic of form & function to bother with such mincing affectations.
01010001 01110101 01101001 01110100 01100101
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
Funny.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
In my mind I'm idly speculating whether the rules about writing in English are equipped to deal with a situation where a Shipmate writes in a transformed version of English, and provides a link to enable the transformation to be reversed...
Kind of reminds me of the time a printer decided it would print out a document in Wingdings font.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Not to change the subject, but is everybody else who has Chrome finding it is wilting like a Southern Belle in summer lately? I have had to reinstall the damn thing three times within a month.
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
I want to know why in the hell every fucking program or website has decided to put their forms etc. into a combination of white on very light almond. Is contrast suddenly Evil™ or what? It makes me feel ancient when I can't even find the fucking box to type crap into, because I can't barely see it on the frigging screen. And if the designers are going to be such assholes about this, why is it always pale pale almond and not randomly pale pale green, or pink, or some other freaking color? You'd swear the almond conglomerate of the world is planning a takeover any minute...
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
How do you manage to say all that about almond, and not mention anything about it being nuts?
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
01010001 01110101 01101001 01110100 01100101*
Sigh. You don't get a pass on this because it's 'post-ironic' or 'meta' or whatever you young folk say these days.
Posts that are not in English require a translation immediately below. No exceptions.
DT
HH
*Quite
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
How do you manage to say all that about almond, and not mention anything about it being nuts?
Shhh, don't stop her, she's cussing like a sailor! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
You taught me everything I know, Kel. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
© Ship of Fools 2016
UBB.classicTM
6.5.0