Ship of Fools: Rushing to Oblivion

Thread: Rushing to Oblivion Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

It seems like the Republican presidential candidates are busy at work digging themselves into a hole which will not give them much support in a general election.

There is Trump with his anti-immigration rants who has turned off practically every latino voter.

But nearly everyone has taken an extreme view on something.

Now nearly all the candidates are coming out and saying they are willing to defund the government rather than spend 500,000,000 on Planned Parenthood

They have never learned that any time the government is shut down it backfires on the Republican party.

It just seems the Republican party (US) is rushing to Oblivion.

Sad. I remember a party that once stood for progressive causes.

Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :

It looks like this is the natural end of such a polarised system.

From the outside looking in, the US political scene has become more bitter and aggressively polarised year after year.

There is no middle ground to fight for, so folks stake their claim to their own bit of the extremity.

I guess, if I were a USAian I'd naturally lean towards Democrats, in part because it seems that evidence, fact and truth have little to do with Republican thinking and expression...

Posted by Tortuf (# 3784) on :

To my mind, a good deal of the problem lies in the sources of large funding. It is a few, very rich, individuals controlling companies that demand those sorts of positions in order to provide campaign funding. The candidates (may) feel that they have to take those positions - for now - but once in office they will be able to be their own reasonable self.

Unfortunately, should they come into office, they will face a congress that is made up of a bunch of other people who have sold their souls and radicals who actually believe in tea bagger crapola.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Even if a candidate funded by rich interests actually wins, he cannot then kick them to the door. There are re-election campaigns, after all -- one would not wish to be a one-term president. And then there are all those senatorial and House races which need funding. No, once you sell your soul to the Koch brothers you have passed that gate at which you abandon all hope as you enter.

Posted by Crœsos (# 238) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
They have never learned that any time the government is shut down it backfires on the Republican party.

Does it? Quite frankly while the "Republican Party" as a collective entity may be harmed reputationally by such antics, none of the Republican Congressmen and Senators involved in past shutdowns seem to have paid any real electoral price for it. Ted Cruz, a champion of the last shutdown, was able to parlay his involvement into a credible run for his party's presidential nomination. While the reputational harm suffered by the Republican party may be an impediment for their eventual presidential nominee, I'm not sure shutting down the federal government harms any Republican who isn't running for President.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
It seems like the Republican presidential candidates are busy at work digging themselves into a hole which will not give them much support in a general election.

...It just seems the Republican party (US) is rushing to Oblivion.

Not Oblivion-- Fox. The distinction is subtle, so your confusion is understandable.

It's quite clear that none of the current slate of GOP candidates, least of all the Trumpmeister, is at all interested in the hard, thankless job of actually running the country. Too much work for too little pay and too little pay. Why, you don't even get weekends off. No, these corporate shills are running for the far easier and better-paying gig of political blowhard, for which an unsuccessful run for the presidency is prime resume building material (see Palin). They'll do their run, say awful and extremist things, go down (please, God!) in flames, then laugh all the way to the bank as they collect a fat check from Faux News for sitting on their fat bums pontificating ignorantly about why the poor fool who actually wins the election/got the job is a commie/ hippie tree-hugger/ secret Muslim terrorist/ whatever. They can spout all sorts of nonsense w/o ever having to worry about the impact of their decisions. It's a sweet gig so no wonder so many of them are auditioning for the part.

Think of the debates as a reality game show: Next Faux Network Star.

Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
I'm not sure shutting down the federal government harms any Republican who isn't running for President.

Indeed. Republican presidential candidates end up running against Democrats in the country as a whole, and are hurt by extremism.

For the average Republican member of the House of Representatives, the competition isn't a Democratic challenger - it's a challenge in the primary election from a more extreme candidate. Voters in primary elections tend to be the hard-core extremists of their parties. So being extreme in the House serves to deflect a potential challenge, and keep the incumbent in office. It doesn't matter what Democratic voters or centrists think of him - they don't vte in the Republican primary.

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

When Newt Gingrich was Speaker of the House, his group of Republicans did shut down the government and in the process lost the next congressional elections. The last government shut down happened at a time when there were no pending elections so did not do much harm (Americans have such a short term memory problem). However, this new threat is coming very close to a national election in which a new president, a third of the Senate, and all of the House will be contested. It will be a big issue if they try to do it.

Posted by Crœsos (# 238) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
When Newt Gingrich was Speaker of the House, his group of Republicans did shut down the government and in the process lost the next congressional elections.

It's not 1996 any more. Today a much larger proportion of Republican voters value doctrinal purity far above actual governing.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

Given how comprehensively the house districts have been rigged by Republican state governments it will take a big swing to give Democrats control of the house. The flip side of that, of course, is that when it comes it will be devastating for the Republicans.

Posted by Barnabas62 (# 9110) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

Think of the debates as a reality game show: Next Faux Network Star.

That looks like the sort of truthful and left-field thing Jon Stewart might say (or have said). What are we going to do without him?

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

Think for ourselves?

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

Think of the debates as a reality game show: Next Faux Network Star.
That looks like the sort of truthful and left-field thing Jon Stewart might say (or have said). What are we going to do without him?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Think for ourselves?

The issue is not thinking. It's having a media platform to expose lies.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

Guys? Guys?

-Trevor Noah.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Think for ourselves?

Oh you and your silly japes.

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Guys? Guys?

-Trevor Noah.

Unknown quantity.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

It appears that ever increasing numbers of voters are registering or changing their registration to independent, non-affiliated, etc. That seems a good thing, I'd reckon.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

I'm just thinking that it is rare even today for someone who is not a white male to get a late night hosting gig, and I hope he gets a fair shake in the face of the national wake for Stewart. Especially since he has a real opportunity to reinvent the show to poke at things that a white host might never think to poke at.

Posted by Hedgehog (# 14125) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Matrix:
There is no middle ground to fight for, so folks stake their claim to their own bit of the extremity.

There is quite a bit of middle ground to fight for--and it would be refreshing if somebody would stand up and fight for it. My suspicion (and it is just a gut feeling) is that the majority of voters are firmly encamped on that middle ground-some a little bit on the right edge of that ground, others closer to the left edge, but all generally in the middle.

The trouble is that taking a stand on the middle ground has been characterized as "weak"--somebody who might (gasp!!!!) compromise with the other party!!! Oh, horrors!! The US political system has made being in the middle an unclean caste.

I really, truly wish there was somebody to fight hard for the middle ground. It has been abandoned.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
I'm just thinking that it is rare even today for someone who is not a white male to get a late night hosting gig, and I hope he gets a fair shake in the face of the national wake for Stewart. Especially since he has a real opportunity to reinvent the show to poke at things that a white host might never think to poke at.

I'm exited about it! What I've seen of Trevor Noah makes me think he will handle the show well. It is not him that I wonder about.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
There is quite a bit of middle ground to fight for--and it would be refreshing if somebody would stand up and fight for it. My suspicion (and it is just a gut feeling) is that the majority of voters are firmly encamped on that middle ground-some a little bit on the right edge of that ground, others closer to the left edge, but all generally in the middle.

It seems what you say is far more true for the first Tuesday in November than it is during the primaries.

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