Ship of Fools: Prepping - a duty or an extravagance?

Thread: Prepping - a duty or an extravagance? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

So, I'm a casual prepper.

The Mormons do prepping, as a religious duty. Then there are survivalists, who seem to really want the end of the world to happen, so they can exploit those who aren't prepped: the 'sheeple' who expect civilisation to meet their needs for the duration of their lives.

Seems to me, it's plain common sense to expand your resilience envelope, each month. Maybe that's buying a few candles, maybe some bottled water, maybe a few canned meals, maybe learning a new skill.

Preps fall into three distinct areas:

Bug-in stuff. The kind of consumables and equipment that enable you to stay home (often the safest place) in emergencies.
Bug-out stuff. The kind of consumables and equipment that facilitate your evacuation from home, when that is no longer the safest place to be.
Everyday carry stuff. The kind of stuff that helps you deal with emergencies, should they arise, when you are away from home, and get you back to base safely, if your normal plans are compromised by events.

Try as I might, I can't see casual preparedness as a sin, just ordinary, think-ahead precaution. But I can see it becoming a sin, taken to the extreme. So, forum, where is the dividing line?

Cheers, PV.

[ 29. July 2015, 13:08: Message edited by: PilgrimVagrant ]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

Along about Y2K, I knew a homeowner who decided that the electrical grid was going to collapse. He switched his entire house (an enormous one) to propane gas. This involved massively excavating the garden, to bury several gas tanks the size of a truck. I wonder if his wife has forgiven him yet.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

To some extent it depends where you live. If you live in a flood/fire/earthquake zone all this sounds very sensible.

Living where I do on a hill in Northern England, the only things I need to prepare for are (very) long traffic jams. The last one I was stationary in the car from 2:30pm to 11pm, no shops nearby, nothing. I was very grateful I had followed my Dad's advice to always have chocolate and water in the car! (I keep a blanket, shovel and grit too, but they were not needed as it was June)

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Two or 3 times a year we have systems failures at home. So we cook over wood or a camp stove. It is more often and longer at our cabin where it has been up to 4 days. Thosr are good days to read a book, have a nap, or do something active. Not viewing it as more than generally part of life. Generally being prepared and not complaining are things I learned in Boy Scouts.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

What's a prepper please?

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

Sorry for the slang. A 'prepper' is someone who prepares for bad times. They might be individual bad-times, such as caused by unemployment, or the bankruptcy of one's pension provider, or communal bad times, such as caused by the economic mismanagement of the government, or natural disaster, or a nuclear attack.

Cheers, PV.

Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :

I'm not sure if this counts, but it is a form of preparation. I don't prepare for big disasters, but I prepare for my own fluctuations in ability to organise myself (because of being on the autism spectrum - but I imagine this must apply to a variety of disabilities and mental health problems too). I make sure I have enough food in my freezer that I'd have enough to eat for a couple of weeks if I didn't manage to get to the shops. I make meals ahead of time so that if I feel overwhelmed and unable to organise myself, I will still have a meal to eat. I have arranged my life to be very simple, so that I need as little money as possible, so I can work part time and sometimes have time off. I have a list of strategies to help myself not get sensory overload. And I try to prepare myself emotionally by building emotional resilience.

I don't see it as either a duty or an extravagance - just a necessity for day-to-day functioning and being able to enjoy life. [Smile]

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

There's certainly a range where NOT being prepared would be a sin, and also a range where being overly prepared becomes a sin.

The first is what we call negligence--for example, the person living next door to the San Andreas fault who keeps a top-heavy wall unit right next to the baby's crib, without even securing it to the wall. It's hard to know where to draw the line, though--I carry earthquake insurance because I live by the New Madrid fault, which is due for another major quake, and which historically did a crapload of damage, created a lake, and caused the Mississippi to flow backwards. But most of my neighbors, well, earthquakes aren't even on their radar, because hey, that was 1811, back in dinosaur times. [Disappointed]

But as for me, I know that when the big one hits, we're looking at another Katrina. We have freaking brick houses, for gosh sakes, and sewers, and ... It's going to look like a toddler crashed through his building blocks.

But I'm not sure I can really blame my neighbors for ordinary human shortsightedness. It's not like it happened in their lifetimes, or even in the lifetimes of their grandparents. And they probably don't read the science articles.

On the other hand, you get the over-preppers, who treat preparation as an idol. As Luther says,

quote:
A god means that from which we are to expect all good and to which we are to take refuge in all distress, so that to have a God is nothing else than to trust and believe Him from the whole heart; as I have often said, the confidence and faith of the heart alone make both God and an idol.

If your faith and trust be right, then is your god also true; and, on the other hand, if your trust be false and wrong, then you have not the true God; for these two belong together, faith and God. That now, I say, upon which you set your heart and put your trust is properly your god.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

Like with so many things, I think it depends on the attitude under which it's undertaken and how it is shaping your heart.

Living in earthquake country, I've taken sensible precautions to prep for that-- securing top heavy furniture, storing up supplies and water, etc. They've come in handy at other times as well-- when windstorm knocked down trees that blocked roads and knocked out power for weeks, etc. This doesn't feel particularly "religious" but just sensible-- not unlike having an IRA or other retirement savings or health insurance.

But sometimes all this preparing for future disasters becomes enmeshed in hyperbolic (and IMHO non biblical) end-times scenarios in ways that only feed paranoia-- and a particularly nasty us-v-them mentality that seems at odds with the gospel itself. I was once part of a team that was charged with making a plan for our church in the event a large-scale earthquake occurred during Sunday services. As we were coming up with our list of supplies to have on hand-- first aid kits, shovels, water, canned goods-- someone suggested a handgun (yes, this is America). When we questioned that, the congregant suggested that in a major disaster "outsiders" would come and want to use our water, canned goods, etc. and we'd need the gun to "defend" our stash. [brick wall]

Fortunately, the rest of the team decided that rather than buying a gun we should just store some extra water to share with our less-prepared neighbors.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Basic financial planning advice includes save enough money to live on for 6 months (maybe that should be a year in economies where finding a replacement job is slow). And save for predictable future needs like car repairs, roof repairs, old age.

That's financial prepping. I have heard preaching against it ("use the money to help others, don't hoard it"), and we've had discussions about how much financial prepping is too little or too much.

People have always prepped for winter by canning and preserving food, prepped for spring by saving seed to plant instead of eating or selling it all, but today a lot of prepping involves buying materials not used in daily life. Prepped for marriage with the hope chest, prepped for adult life by learning useful skills.

FEMA wants all Americans to have a two week supply of self sufficiency on hand but knows that high a goal will turn people off so they advertise 3 or 4 days. Most people aren't prepped for that.

Meanwhile, the majority of the population are on prescription drugs but having an extra month on hand is often prevented by doctors and insurance companies (in USA).

Be aware of your location and anticipate likely need. Try to find prep items you can use in real life too so it's not just hoarding stuff for a maybe never event.

The day I woke to that beautiful extra quiet when the power has gone off, my house guest discovered the flashlight beside her bed (every bed has one, makes getting up at night easier for those who want just a little light), we cheerfully made coffee and oatmeal on the sterno stove in my camping gear, and left town in the car (which of course had at least half a tank of gas) to go sightseeing elsewhere while the city spent most of the day without electricity.

A little prepping makes little glitches easy to deal with. A lot of prepping is expensive but if it's what you need to feel safe, cheaper than hiring a shrink.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

FEMA wants all Americans to have a two week supply of self sufficiency on hand but knows that high a goal will turn people off so they advertise 3 or 4 days. Most people aren't prepped for that.

I always had a 3-4 day stash of supplies up until Katrina, that quickly had me increasing our stash to a 3 week supply.

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
I'm not sure if this counts, but it is a form of preparation. I don't prepare for big disasters, but I prepare for my own fluctuations in ability to organise myself (because of being on the autism spectrum - but I imagine this must apply to a variety of disabilities and mental health problems too). I make sure I have enough food in my freezer that I'd have enough to eat for a couple of weeks if I didn't manage to get to the shops. I make meals ahead of time so that if I feel overwhelmed and unable to organise myself, I will still have a meal to eat. I have arranged my life to be very simple, so that I need as little money as possible, so I can work part time and sometimes have time off. I have a list of strategies to help myself not get sensory overload. And I try to prepare myself emotionally by building emotional resilience.

I don't see it as either a duty or an extravagance - just a necessity for day-to-day functioning and being able to enjoy life.

Fineline, I really appreciate your reply. I am schizophrenic, on medication that keeps me mostly sane, and understand where you're coming from. I, too, keep my life as simple as I am able. The stress, for example, of a romantic relationship, or ordinary employment, is more than I can manage. But, simple as it is, I love my life, and want to sustain my lifestyle as far as I am able, which is why I prep; just to exercise a little independence in my life.

Cheers, PV.

[ 29. July 2015, 15:59: Message edited by: PilgrimVagrant ]

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
There's certainly a range where NOT being prepared would be a sin, and also a range where being overly prepared becomes a sin.

Yeah, I think your post has it about right. To my mind, prepping is insurance. But it's insurance where you get to decide, month by month, how much you want to pay, and get to keep whatever goodies you buy with that premium.

Cheers, PV.

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:

Meanwhile, the majority of the population are on prescription drugs but having an extra month on hand is often prevented by doctors and insurance companies (in USA).

Yes, this is an issue for me. I'm on 4 tablets daily, prescribed and collected every 60 days, entirely free of charge to me, given the UK National Health Service. I'd like to build up my supplies to around 90 days independency, but I don't want to abuse the privilege the NHS represents. So, medications remain a weak spot in my prepping plans.

Cheers, PV.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

From what I've seen on National Geographic preppers are quite mad and nearly always gun nuts. I hate hoarding and hoarding is the prepper's cornerstone, so that's another reason why I could never be one.

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
From what I've seen on National Geographic preppers are quite mad and nearly always gun nuts. I hate hoarding and hoarding is the prepper's cornerstone, so that's another reason why I could never be one.

But there was this one group in the programme, basically a bunch of hippies and part of their ethos was no weapons. They were pretty cool.

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
From what I've seen on National Geographic preppers are quite mad and nearly always gun nuts. I hate hoarding and hoarding is the prepper's cornerstone, so that's another reason why I could never be one.

Yes, I am aware of this criticism, which is why I posted the thread. Should we really hoard while others starve? Nevertheless, I am not really hoarding, just storing. I just buy 3 months in advance of my needs, so I am 3 months resilient. And I don't do guns, at all.

Cheers, PV.

[ 29. July 2015, 18:29: Message edited by: PilgrimVagrant ]

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

quote:
Originally posted by PilgrimVagrant:

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
From what I've seen on National Geographic preppers are quite mad and nearly always gun nuts. I hate hoarding and hoarding is the prepper's cornerstone, so that's another reason why I could never be one.
Yes, I am aware of this criticism, which is why I posted the thread. Should we really hoard while others starve? Nevertheless, I am not really hoarding, just storing. I just buy 3 months in advance of my needs, so I am 3 months resilient. And I don't do guns, at all.

Cheers, PV.

If you don't do guns you're alright with me, not that you need my approval, of course.

May I ask what you're preppeing for? Do you have a specific scenario in mind?

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

Yeah. The main scenario I prep against is a cut in my income. If the government attacked the benefit disbursement to the mentally ill, which, given it's track record, is not at all unlikely, I would have a few weeks grace to adjust. Other than that, it's just normal stuff, so floods, fires, and such. But at the same time, I am protecting against less likely threats; terrorism, civil disorder, total war, zombie attack, that kind of thing.

Cheers PV.

[ 29. July 2015, 18:45: Message edited by: PilgrimVagrant ]

Posted by Ad Orientem (# 17574) on :

I understand the medicine thing. Although something completely different, I have asthma (which fortunately has got better as I've got older), but I like to have a good supply of medicine just in case I lose some or my condition gets worse. It requires some planning ahead. I appreciate that. Doctors and pharmacists ask questions if you order medicines too frequently, which can make it difficult.

I've never really worried about food though. I only do two days shopping at the most. Even if I'm short of money I know I can go a few days without food (not that it's ever come to that) and I know how to hunt (there are lots of hares and pheasants round my way).

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

I prep by filling my home with useful stuff from the skip at work. Come the zombie apocalypse, I guess I must picture myself pulling my best A-team moves and making a desalination plant from random items of obsolescent laboratory apparatus.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

quote:
I'm on 4 tablets daily, prescribed and collected every 60 days, entirely free of charge to me, given the UK National Health Service. I'd like to build up my supplies to around 90 days independency, but I don't want to abuse the privilege the NHS represents.

My mate is bipolar. New 'prescription direct from doctor to pharmacy' cockups just gave him a month with no meds - except that luckily he was a month in advance due to a previous mess-up. He only just broke even.

quote:
If the government attacked the benefit disbursement to the mentally ill, which, given it's track record, is not at all unlikely, I would have a few weeks grace to adjust.

Yes- council just wrote to the same mate saying 'your light-support housing service for those with long-term mental health issues is being withdrawn. You will need to log on to **** and bid (!) for housing using central council housing services...'.

Well, amongst those he lives with, he's lucky. He can read, is sober and intelligent, and solvent. The other five men will presumably end up very ill, or dead.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Hoarding is pointless unless you're willing to kill someone who wants to take your hoard.

Being prepared - the actual acquiring of skills useful in the event of an emergency - is far more valuable to both you and your community. If you consider yourself a prepper, and you haven't done a first aid course, a butchery course, a self-defence course, learnt how to hunt, fish, build a fire, built a shelter, navigate using a map and a compass, or find/make potable water, then you're not a prepper, you're kidding yourself.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I passed a survivalist test with flying colours. The determining factor is how soon you go cannibal.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Hoarding is pointless unless you're willing to kill someone who wants to take your hoard.

Yes, you sound just like the good Christian in my narrative above who wanted our church supplies to include a handgun for that reason.

But the rest of us seemed to think there was some benefit to "hoarding" or storing up enough supplies to care for both our own needs and at least some of our less-prepared neighbors w/o resorting to violence.

Haven't had to go thru a zombie apocalypse so far, nor the left-behind version, but the couple of major earthquakes I lived thru here in SoCal seemed to bring out the best of my neighbors, not the least. Southern Californians tend to be an independent lot-- most of us don't know our next-door neighbor's names, even when they're close enough for us to track every toilet flush. But when the ground starts shaking we do seem to come together, check on one another, and share what we have, be they generators or an extra roll of TP.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
May I ask what you're preppeing for? Do you have a specific scenario in mind?

I know people who prep (for a month or two) because we in USA cities are so vulnerable to disruption in the food supply. Most of what we eat is non-local, trucked in every night; grocery stores no longer have warehouses but only a day or two supply of food. A truck strike, we'd be in big trouble real soon.

In hurricane territory, any time the news says a hurricane might hit, shelves are quickly bare, stripped. If you weren't among the first to get to the store, what will you feed your kids tonight? Prepped, not an issue.

I have met (on line) people who prep partly for economic reasons, buy lots of cans of beans or extra rice to store when they go on sale. If finances get tight you not only have food on hand, you got it more cheaply than if you had to buy it today. It's assurance, "I can eat not only tonight but for a few weeks." Anxiety reducing for some. (Others dislike the clutter of all that extra stuff.)

Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :

Anyone who lives in NZ and hasn't done some prep for a disaster is perhaps a bit foolish. Every time we have an earthquake it jogs my memory to check our stored water.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

We're basically just talking about risk assessment. Risks need to be measured in 2 ways - the likelihood of the event happening, and the consequences if it does happen.

I don't have the slightest problem with anyone preparing for risks, so long as the preparation doesn't become severely disproportionate to the actual risk and overtake their life.

(I'd be useless in most natural disasters because of the unlikelihood of them happening where I live.)

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

The best preparation for a zombie apocalypse - but an expensive one is to have teenage kids. They know what to do. They've seen the movies. They have it off pat so we don't need to prepare for that one until they leave home.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

A former work colleague had the t-shirt: "In case of zombie apocalypse, follow me".

I never enquired deeply as to whether her qualifications extended beyond having bought the t-shirt.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Hoarding is pointless unless you're willing to kill someone who wants to take your hoard.
Yes, you sound just like the good Christian in my narrative above who wanted our church supplies to include a handgun for that reason.

I didn't say it was a good thing. It's just the inevitable and relatively swiftly-reached end-point when the shit really hits the fan.

You'd probably do better as a church to publicise the benefits of holding stored water, food and fuel to your wider community, in cooperation with whatever local government organisations you have. That way, if everyone is a little bit prepared (say, 3 days to a week), everyone has 3 days to a week before they go feral. If your emergency can be ameliorated in that time, and order reimposed, you come out looking competent and sensible.

If it isn't, you're better getting the hell out of Dodge anyway. No piece of real estate is worth a single life.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

If the zombie apocalypse happens in Western Europe, we’re all in big trouble. High population density, low firearms ownership, nowhere we can really run away to. If you really want to protect against getting your brains eaten, your first step should be moving to North America or Australia which have much bigger uninhabited areas. If you’re intent on staying in Blighty, best easily available, legal weapon is a hammer or cricket bat [Biased]

.

<takes tongue out of cheek> More seriously, stockpiling stuff requires a fairly big home. Our apartment is 50m² and considered fairly spacious by Parisian standards. We never have more than a few days’ supplies of anything because we don’t have the space. Except for wine, now I think of it. We have enough of that for at least a couple of weeks. Hic.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

With regards to zombies, everything depends on whether they're slow or fast. Any competent adult armed with something heavy and/or sharp should be able to crack at least two skulls before succumbing to the shambling horrors. You'd see an exponential decline in the number of zombies from then on.

I have a turfing iron and a metre-long crowbar just for such occasions.

Fast zombies? We're all going to die, and there's little point in trying to survive. Sorry.

Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :

Fast zombies are nonsense. Well, zombies are nonsense, but fast zombies are physically impossible. One cannot sustain that kind of power output for long just by metabolising biological materials. There's a reason why cheetahs are mostly just lying around vegging. A fast zombie apocalypse would be pretty easy to handle. Just snipe them one by one with a rifle while they rest exhaustedly from their last bout of high speed hunting.

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

But we don't have rifles here in the UK ...

But we do have cricket bats.

Perhaps it's time to bring back 2nd Lieutenant Bill Wilson - The Wolf of Kabul - and his faithful oriental side-kick, Chung.

Armed with a brass-bound cricket bat - which he called 'clicky-ba', Chung was more than a match for the enemies of the Raj ...

The zombies would stand no chance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_of_Kabul

Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :

If you don't have a rifle, then get into your car and run over them. See if they can outrun a ton of steel hurtling at them... The idiocy of the whole zombie idea is that people dead due to organ failure not only perform some action steered by a decaying central nervous system (yeah, right) but run a highly coordinated guerrilla attack campaign while surviving damage like a healthy, young marine in full combat gear.

The monsters we scare ourselves with are so silly. If its not the undead apparently running on nuclear power with a hive mind, then it will be skyscraper size giants or an alien collection of fangs and claws with acid blood. What is however most likely to kill humanity is some micro-organism. And if aliens will drive us to extinction, then probably not because they are some scary beasts. We aren't, and we are on the top of the food chain of this planet. They will kill us off because they can outsmart and out-organise us. That's how we kill any animal that gets in our way...

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Fast zombies are nonsense. Well, zombies are nonsense, but fast zombies are physically impossible. One cannot sustain that kind of power output for long just by metabolising biological materials. There's a reason why cheetahs are mostly just lying around vegging. A fast zombie apocalypse would be pretty easy to handle. Just snipe them one by one with a rifle while they rest exhaustedly from their last bout of high speed hunting.

The real absurdity with fast zombies is that I simply can't believe I'll be better at getting exercise when I'm dead than I am now. Anyway, I have a friend who works in a mortuary. She's agreed to be my zombie apocalypse early warning. The text message will read "OMG zombies LOL". (Did you know mortuary fridge doors have handles on the inside? Freaked me out when I first heard that.)

Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh yes, prepping. As usual, Jesus isn't to be taken too literally:

quote:
Jesus: Go into the city and make preparations for the feast.
Peter: We can't, we've got no money.
Jesus: Why not?
Peter: You told us to have no thought for the morrow.
Jesus: *facepalm*

I'd say that you should probably make sufficient preparation so that in any crisis you can reasonably think of, you at least won't be a burden on, or a danger to, anyone else. And keep a cool head - the worst thing to lose in a crisis is your soul.

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

Surely what you need in the event of a zombie apocalypse is a vegetable patch? [Smile]

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :

This is the best thread ever.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
If you don't have a rifle, then get into your car and run over them. See if they can outrun a ton of steel hurtling at them... The idiocy of the whole zombie idea is that people dead due to organ failure not only perform some action steered by a decaying central nervous system (yeah, right) but run a highly coordinated guerrilla attack campaign while surviving damage like a healthy, young marine in full combat gear.

You are the one who believes in the supernatural [Biased]

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

What happens if a zombie bites a vampire or the other way around? Re the quick and undead, do you then have to use a silver bullet on the zombie, whether the fast or slow variety?

Posted by Gamaliel (# 812) on :

Have you noticed that the thing about zombies - and with mummies in older horror films - is that however slowly they move, they still manage to catch up with you ...?

Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on :

hosting/

Given the turn this thread has taken, it's being sent to Heaven. Anyone left behind here is, well Left Behind™ and had better get prepping quick.

/hosting

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I have to say that heretofore I have only heard 'prepping' used on cookery shows by chefy types to mean 'chopping up a lot of vegetables'.

A quick glance at my freezer/kitchen cupboards/wine rack suggests that I am indeed expecting the siege of Stalingrad rerun any day now.

Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :

Wine?

Now you are talking!

We are well prepared, with 50 bottles of good red in the rack [Big Grin]

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Have you noticed that the thing about zombies - and with mummies in older horror films - is that however slowly they move, they still manage to catch up with you ...?

I remember a comedian from the '90s who used to say, if you get caught by the Mummy, you deserve to die.

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Wine?

Now you are talking!

We are well prepared, with 50 bottles of good red in the rack

Any home brewing forum (and I'm sure home wine making forum) has at least one person a week come along to start the "if the apocalypse happened tomorrow, how much beer could you make?" thread. I'd be out of luck on that one, but I have often told my wife that if we are ever stranded on a deserted island with a bunch of folks "Lost" style, I'm going to ingratiate myself to folks by making jailhouse wine out of whatever fruit I can get my hands on.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Err, surely this is what used to be known as keeping a store cupboard?

If you had a glut of anything you either bottled or canned the produce; and you made sure that your pantry had sufficient variety to enable you to rustle-up a meal if necessity demanded.

Along with this, you made sure there were candles and matches on top of the fuse-box, plus a couple of spare torches and batteries for same.

You can give it all the fancy labels you want - although Prepper makes me think of small boys dragging their feet over schoolwork - but it really just is common-or-garden prudence and good housekeeping.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Proper preppers expect to survive the apocalypse and live the rest of their days in a sparsely populated libertarian eutopia.

They're welcome to it.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

A couple of weeks ago I happened to attend a book launch held to promote a novel about prepping. Not normally my kind of thing, but the author and setting were both local to me, rather than being American, which seems to be far more common.

I haven't read the book yet, but the middle class English gentlemen in the narrative do appear to have guns and a willingness to use them....

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

Don't consider myself a 'prepper' by any stretch of the imagination, BUT on hand there is ALWAYS peanut butter, chocolate, and gin (for the warm months) and either Scotch or Irish single malt (preferably both) (for cooler times).

And always lots of B**ks, both read and unread. Candles in case the power goes, and lots of quilts to pile on the bed.

The above got me through a 4-day city-wide snow shutdown a few years ago. (Fortunately I had plenty of dog and cat food.)

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Wine?

I felt a disturbance in the Force, as if someone had spoken a mighty Word of Power. I came as soon as I could.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
A couple of weeks ago I happened to attend a book launch held to promote a novel about prepping. Not normally my kind of thing, but the author and setting were both local to me, rather than being American, which seems to be far more common.

I haven't read the book yet, but the middle class English gentlemen in the narrative do appear to have guns and a willingness to use them....

Name and shame [Big Grin]

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

OK, well the author was a very friendly chap, so I don't mind directing you to his book.

He was selling paperback copies at the event, but I think his online focus is on e-books.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

This is all good fun, but Pilgrim Vagrant is still thinking about prepping for shit that George Osborne might well do to him.

Well, WTF. PV, PM me if zombie George does one all over you.

Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :

Here's the thing: if you prep for *something unexpected* then you have to keep prepping for it ad infinitum. Batteries and foodstuffs need to be continually replaced. I can't keep up with life as it is now, let alone as it might be in an unforeseen crisis.

Therefore I am embracing the zombie within. I am happy to turn. One of you can blow my head off or run me over when I do. Problem solved.

Posted by Photo Geek (# 9757) on :

I practice prepping for comfort. After the 2012 derecho, I had a whole house standby natural gas generator installed. Now, when the power goes off, the generator comes on and everything but my TV and internet is back in action.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Banner Lady:
Here's the thing: if you prep for *something unexpected* then you have to keep prepping for it ad infinitum. Batteries and foodstuffs need to be continually replaced. I can't keep up with life as it is now, let alone as it might be in an unforeseen crisis.

For the most part all you need to do is be a couple of weeks ahead when stocking anything that is non-perishable. If you normally go thru 4 rolls of TP a week, you should have 12 rolls on hand, then replenish your normal 4 each week. Of course, as noted above, space limitations may make this challenging.

You need to add a few things that you don't normally use: bottled water (hopefully you're not using that regularly), maybe more canned meats or packaged foods than normal, batteries. So you pick a date each year when you have canned tuna casserole and bottled water for dinner and replace last year's stash.

Our kids are required to bring "earthquake kits" to keep at school, which are brought home on the last day of the school year. My kids always enjoyed eating up all those packaged snacks the first week of summer vacation.

Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :

Well, I know it's selfish of me to not wish to survive an apocalyptic disaster.

I suppose I should really want to become one of the mole women of Mount Mugga, Minnesota or Madagascar; to learn how to live off algae and mushrooms; and accommodate myself to whacking other suffering life forms like I swat blow flies during the summer. But really, I'd rather be taken out early and be spared the prolonged suffering.

BL. Happy to be front and centre of a warzone as long as I am not expected to survive it and patch up everyone else using spittle and spider webs.

Posted by Graven Image (# 8755) on :

Having made it through a mud slide, earthquake, hurricane. and flood and now living in rural fire area I am a preppier par excellence, if I do say so myself.
Car is always packed with change of clothes, and water, meds and extra glasses.
Home has freeze dried food portable stove, first aid kid, meds, dog food and more.
I have learned handi wipes come in handy when water is short.
I can make it for 2 weeks on my own. I have learned it takes a number of days for help to get there.

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:

Well, WTF. PV, PM me if zombie George does one all over you.

Roger wilco. Thanks for your concern. Generally, one shouldn't speak ill of the living dead, but where that ambiguous individual is a politician, I think we are entitled to criticise the unlives that inflict damage on good, real, people.

Cheers, PV.

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :

I have friends who use the zombie apocalypse as a conversation opener at dinner parties. We were popular as my husband is an engineer who invents new technologies and I'm a nurse who can make beer, wine and cheese. But I did point out that any post-apolcalyptic empire would soon fall down as we all only have male children.
I don't think being a prepper would be helpful for my bipolar disorder, it already tends me towards ocd (as it is heavily controlled by lifestyle) and I could easily just become obsessed with prepping and consequently anxious about that. I can see why having medications available is sensible though. There are few risks beyond power cuts where I live and we generally have a few weeks food available (and the odd bottle of water for making wine as the local stuff is too hard for good wine) as well as torches, candles and matches.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

I'm with BL. If things get that bad* I would trade in my remaining decade or so of increasing infirmity for however long it takes me to go through the 150 or bottles in the drinks cupboard.

*in case the foregoing sounds a bit too much like suicidal ideation, I'm talking meteor strike, collapse of the global ecosystem, rabid zombies, Tories return for a third term, that sort of thing.

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

Yes, I know people often say that, now. About not wanting to live through, and in the aftermath of, some disaster or other. But I remember hearing about a book about a man who had a modest fortune, and decided to live beyond his means until it was spent, and then commit suicide. Of course, the day finally came when the money was all gone. Did he kill himself? Well, no. Life, even without the luxuries he was accustomed to, was far more sweet than he had anticipated...

Cheers, PV.

Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :

PV, just because I don't want to survive an apocalypse doesn't mean I don't have an emergency plan.

Should disaster descend and I wake up un-undead, I shall hie me to the country rellies who have survived fire, flood and drought because they know how to be completely self-sufficient under a large variety of circumstances..

If I cannot be a zombie, then I shall be a parasite. But if the good Lord is merciful, central Canberra where I live will have been taken out, and I shall simply be a puff of ash.

For me, the answer is blowing in the wind.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

As an aged rellie remarked 'I've been poor and I've been rich and rich is better - but if I had go be poor again, I reckon I could do it'.

Impoverishment wouldn't bother me either, but the loss of everyone I knew or loved, or of any sustainable future for the planet would be a different matter.

But, as they say in Chaucer, 'stynt of that and talk of mirth'.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

I've never understood the survivalists - or the characters in apocalyptic movies - who want to be prepared to survive the end of the world. Why? It's not a world worth surviving for.

However, most disasters are just local, and there's a whole world beyond them worth trying to get to, or to help rebuild the devastated area, so it's almost a moot point I'm making.

In my current neighborhood, the biggest threat is probably arson, and I'm not quite sure how to prepare for that (except for arson and keeping essentials easy to grab). We could conceivably get a tornado, but we're not really in the zone they usually go through in Michigan.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:

In my current neighborhood, the biggest threat is probably arson, and I'm not quite sure how to prepare for that (except for arson and keeping essentials easy to grab).

Prep would presumably entail:
• clearly established escape route, putting collapsable ladders etc in place if needed
• fire drills
• smoke detectors
• fire extinguishers
• ideally, sprinkler system, although those are costly. Here in wildfire country we've found a cheaper alternative is to run a drip irrigation system over the roof that can be quickly turned on from the garden faucet as fleeing the home

as well as homeowners or renters insurance.

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

After Hurricaine Katrina, pet owners learned to have not only a pet carrier, but enough pet carriers -- one for each cat or dog. You can't take your pet with you to a shelter or onto an evacuation vehicle unless it is in a carrier (and sometimes not even then, but a carrier is a prerequisite).

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

Well, I guess the theme that's emerging, is that even if you have no desire to survive Armageddon, and expect to be helicoptered to heaven come the rapture, it's still worth prepping for smaller, more random events that tend to upset plans and spoil people's days.

So, I'm still building my 3 months of food and consumables stores. I hope I'll never need them. But I feel contented just to know they are there, just in case. I think of this stock as my personal foodbank, my contribution to the nation's resilience, and my way of expressing an idea of prudence, which, last time I heard, was still considered a virtue.

And as for those zombies? I need not fear them, at least for 90 days after their unresurrection. That should give me enough time to figure out some solution to the situation, if no one else has, meanwhile.

Cheers, PV.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

I've subsisted in a high-crime location on a small income with nothing in the bank, and I've done the same with a fairly fat something in the bank. I know which one doesn't scare the f*ck out of me, but it doesn't sit well with all that 'don't take an extra coat' stuff, nor indeed with 'considering the lilies' or indeed 'doing it for the least of these'.

I can see loving wealth - greed - as being a spirit-killer. What about blunt fear? If you can give away quite a lot of your income, is God bothered by the size of the cushion which is giving you the confidence to give?

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
I've never understood the survivalists - or the characters in apocalyptic movies - who want to be prepared to survive the end of the world. Why? It's not a world worth surviving for...

Yes, but it seems to me that all possible worlds are worth surviving for. There is not a possible world, from my point of view, where I would not like to be alive. I like life!

Some worlds are better than others. And it may be, as some have suggested, that this world is the best of all possible worlds. But to say death is preferable to other worlds is to give up on humanity, and humanity's capacity to improve upon itself, and improve upon the world, generation by generation. I had far rather be a small cog in the wheel of progress, that development, than go to my grave, hopeless and defeated.

Best wishes, PV.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
I've never understood the survivalists - or the characters in apocalyptic movies - who want to be prepared to survive the end of the world. Why? It's not a world worth surviving for.

The end of the world as we know it, not necessarily the end of the world as such....

Noah was willing to see his world disappear and start again in very difficult circumstances. There will always be people who see it as their duty to defy circumstances. Plus, not everyone has a great life to start with, so they have less to lose, and potentially something to gain: sudden population decline and the collapse of civil society will give some individuals the chance to assert themselves as leaders.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

I read, with some horror, a thread on a folk song website, would you believe, from a guy who wanted to share his advice on prepping - and he was over here somewhere. Where to get suitable bags for keeping the rice in, and how often to check the stuff for insect damage, how often to replace it. The thought of eating through a potato sack quantity of rice all at once was a bit off-putting. And that was only one of the tedious details he thinks about all the time.

But on the other hand, there's a bit of my brain that has the instincts of a prepper. I have, accidentally, got supplies for a while. Firstly, my store cupboard was built up to cope with an attack of flu or something, and not being able to get out to the shops. And to have supplies of things that I like that showed signs of not being stocked any more. And microwavable meals for when I went into school on supply - I don't have a microwave. and the school found me too expensive.

Then there was some alarmist talk about the effects of swine flu on the supply chain, so I added some basics - more UHT milk and things in tins I wouldn't need to add water to.

Then, while I was operating two dwellings while tarting up the first to sell (still living in it) and spending time at the other, there was the threat of snow leaving me at the second place. So I stocked that up with a few essentials.

Plus some stuff in Aldi and Lidl (discount stores) that came up occasionally and looked interesting.

Then I inherited my Dad's stores. And his quite large freezer, which I have filled with homemade soups and casseroles and stuff.

The trouble is that the prepping part of my brain then labels all the stuff "stores" and doesn't want to actually eat it. I have to force it to allow me to do so. I need to run down the stuff so I haven't got the kitchen cupboards, the drawers under the second fridge, the shelves by the door and the cupboards in the utility room full any more.

Nice beef casserole last night. I must not notch that up as a space in the freezer to be filled. Though I need to put the blackberries somewhere.

I reckon that, water supplies permitting (and I have a few empty gallon bottles and a camping water bag, and some steriliser tablets - for camping) I could last at least a month. Possibly longer if I go on to the 5:2 diet.

Not really sensible. And I think how much tidier the place would look with everything else in those spaces.

Strange that Jesus didn't mention flour beetles among the corrupters of treasures on earth.

Posted by PilgrimVagrant (# 18442) on :

Penny S, welcome to the club. You are definitely a casual prepper.

First rule of prepping is: store what you eat, and eat what you store. And that goes for all the other stuff, too, like paracetemol, washing up liquid, bin bags and petrol (gas). If you don't use it now, chances are you won't be using it come the next flood, or Armageddon, and you are wasting money and space keeping it to hand.

Cheers, PV.

[ 09. August 2015, 14:02: Message edited by: PilgrimVagrant ]

Posted by Brenda Clough (# 18061) on :

There is also the point that the gas won't keep forever. Nor will the food items. Even canned goods you should rotate regularly.
What I dislike about this is that this seems to doom you to a diet of one-year-old foods.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

posted by Brenda Clough

quote:
What I dislike about this is that this seems to doom you to a diet of one-year-old foods.

One year? Where do you get that idea from?

We've always been adventurous with odd 'stores' - frequently stuff that has appeared from the farthest recesses of boat lockers when either selling a vessel or undertaking major work.

The sons have fully taken on board the message that best before and such like are merely guidelines; I overheard one telling his girlfriend the other day "You only really must eat tinned stuff when the tins start to go rusty".

That's my boy [Overused]

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Of course, the good thing is that today, having found a courgette on its way to marrowdom in the garden, I can go at once to the freezer and choose between beef mince or pork mince to stuff it, possibly mixed with pre-made bolognese sauce.

Lamb casserole today, with cauliflower and green beans, all from the freezer. Could have had the beans from the garden, but I hadn't been out there at that point. Took cream out of the freezer, where I had put it on going away, ready for the fresh raspberries.

Sorting things when I went away went Eat, Freeze, Take or Compost. Some very peculiar meals, and a box of bananas, cherries and Women's Institute cake smuggled into the cabin. The cake was nicer than the ship's version - would you go for something called Dry Cake? Homemade curd cheese from some milk which turned, plus reduced whey (I use it as liquid in soups) went into the freezer. I forgot to separate the eggs I couldn't eat and freeze them, but most of them are still edible.

The next few weeks are going to be mystery menus with the first thing that comes to hand from the freezer (or the ice compartments in the fridges).

[ 09. August 2015, 21:44: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Having made up my mind to de-prep myself, I am now presented with a difficulty. (Not the one where, having removed an ingredient from the freezer, I have to return a similar amount of the recipe I made with it and other stuff, nor the one where more space is required to safely keep a food item which only comes in quantity like cooked beetroot).

My local shop has now discontinued stocking the milk I use - 1% fat. It is available from another shop, which is also paying farmers properly, but only in much larger bottles. As it is on the offending shop's website, it may be available from a further off branch. The solution has to be to buy in larger quantities and store in the freezer to a) avoid wasting the larger quantity or b) avoid too frequent longer drives.

I shall have to shuffle things around to make room for bottles. And acquire some smaller containers to decant into. Back to casual prepping. And a passive aggressive letter.

Posted by Penny S (# 14768) on :

Oh dear. Here am I running down the stores, and some ex-advisor to Gordon Brown is telling everyone to stock up on canned goods and bottled water in case a stock market collapse brings rioting.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

My hoardsome ways caught up with me last week: the fridge freezer died. We were able to get a new one delivered fairly promptly, but not before quite a lot of food had spent questionable amounts of time at uncertain temperature levels. Since, for medical reasons, food poisoning in our household would be an even worse idea than usual, I had to err on the side of caution.

The new f/f is slightly smaller, so now I am going to be a reformed character and only put in it stuff for which I have a consumption target in the next two weeks.

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

I suppose I should get a few gallons of water. There is the possibility of a tropical storm coming sort of our way-ish. Maybe.

Oh, goodie! That's all the reason we need to stock up on Oreos, the traditional hurricane food!

Posted by Graven Image (# 8755) on :

Well the prep paid off again. We were on stand by to evacuate from forrest fire two weeks ago. Thankfully we did not have to leave but it was easy to grab a few things and have other things pre-packed to just pick up and go. We did have a laugh about leaving monthly bills behind. So the house burns down, let them cut off our power for non-payment of bill. We do tend to get a little silly and slap happy under stress it seems.

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