Ship of Fools: Martin60: You, on the other hand...

Thread: Martin60: You, on the other hand... Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=029981

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

...are a festering shitbag so wedded to your own bizarre love of being utterly fucking unreadable in everything you post that you've lost the ability to actually make a fucking argument once in a while. Take your ad hominem lack-of-argument and shove it so far up where the sun don't shine that it would take a team of professional spelunkers six weeks to find it again.

If you want to actually have a discussion with me in Purgatory, I'll be waiting. If you just want to spit out crap in lieu of an argument then here's the thread for you.

.

NB: posted here because I can't say most of that in Purg without having to give myself a warning, and that would get a bit too meta. Frankly I don't give a damn if this thread gets a response or not.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

No hope Marvin, that's way too clear.

Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :

I find it disappointing when people reply cogently to a post of Martin60 because it means there was probably a point in it somewhere. So instead of blithely scrolling past all his content it makes me wonder if I might have missed something worthwhile.

Oh well.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Bless you Marv.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

Either engage with what I've said or shut the fuck up.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

MtM

I’m sorry you’re in a bad place mate. It’s not about me is it? It NEVER is. I responded as I did on the thread, because I couldn’t work out whether you were for real or not. And then I realised you were. Hence my “You’re so funny”, which really hit the spot didn’t it? Even if you don’t understand me, you do. You knew I was being … “funny”. How are we to manage this conflict? I’m not doing well here, feel a tad slitty eyed myself obviously, but I must lay down any counter-projection.

I’m sorry for mishandling my perception of your defence of selfishness if it’s not your actual position. If it is, then YOU do have a problem. We all do. Unless we lay our privilege down, we burn. And not in some Iron Age fantasy. The gain of equity and peace offsets any ‘sacrifice’. Real sacrifice is when we give when we have nothing left. You’d say loser’s talk? “You have nothing to lose”?

Your brother in adversity
Martin

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

So, Marv, it's not hat he was rudely dismissing you, it's that you are not yet evolved enough to recieve his peerless wisdom. Maybe in the next lifetime, buddy. Namaste.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

Yep. Add "patronising wankbadger" to the list of ways he pisses me off.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

At first I thought we were in Limbo there Kelly. But Googling deeper, I think we're in Bolgia Nine of Maleboge, the eighth circle. What do you think?

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
At first I thought we were in Limbo there Kelly. But Googling deeper, I think we're in Bolgia Nine of Maleboge, the eighth circle. What do you think?

I think you are are in a VERY deep hole.

I would suggest that you should stop digging, but personally, I like seeing your innards removed through your rectum, so carry on.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
At first I thought we were in Limbo there Kelly. But Googling deeper, I think we're in Bolgia Nine of Maleboge, the eighth circle. What do you think?

Sowers of Discord, eh? Referring to yourself perhaps?

See, I know what you're referring to with a lot of these comments, because believe it or not I'm a educated man. It doesn't piss me off because I don't understand it, it pisses me off because what the fuck is wrong with just saying what you think once in a bastard while? If you want to accuse someone of lying then sodding well say so, don't make some pretentious allusion to medieval literature.

I realise I've got more chance of plaiting soot than of convincing you to change your ways. But I'm finding this thread nicely cathartic, so it's all good.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Thank God for that. And it wasn't your good self of course being accused by beam mine (circle 8, ditch 6), but mote herself.

And, Oh indeterminate state feline, I'm thankful for such tender consideration.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Yep. Add "patronising wankbadger" to the list of ways he pisses me off.

Nearly choked on me popcorn with that one Marv.
Abuse expletives would be seriously curtailed were it not for masturbation, sexual intercourse, misogyny and now, intriguingly it seems, badgers.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I like the word salad dressing Martin provides. Haiku to all of the unwashed leaves.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Yep. Add "patronising wankbadger" to the list of ways he pisses me off.
Nearly choked on me popcorn with that one Marv.
Abuse expletives would be seriously curtailed were it not for masturbation, sexual intercourse, misogyny and now, intriguingly it seems, badgers.

Cockwomble is also available.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Is that the male of the species?

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Why will you not communicate in plain English ?

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Where would be the fun in that.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Yes, but my beard is humble and I weep when I am struck by the tragedy of the SHATTERED perfume bottle - have you kept your brother ? Have you ascended unworthy ? Are you alright mate, because its always about Christ's gardening desires.

[ 24. May 2016, 20:57: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

As opposed to a henwomble? No?

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

Leaves and fæces shall be distributed to the multitude.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Yes, but my beard is humble and I weep when I am struck by the tragedy of the SHATTERED perfume bottle - have you kept your brother ? Have you ascended unworthy ? Are you alright mate, because its always about Christ's gardening desires.

Pure Iggy Pop. Great.

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

Nutbush Finklestein

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Either engage with what I've said or shut the fuck up.

Scream at a rock, "Be a tree! Be a tree!"

Better if you need a tree to go find a tree.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
I find it disappointing when people reply cogently to a post of Martin60 because it means there was probably a point in it somewhere. So instead of blithely scrolling past all his content it makes me wonder if I might have missed something worthwhile.

Oh well.

You've really got the right idea.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Nutbush Finklestein

Of course you do. And ME. And MINE. It's all with HIM. None of us can.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
At first I thought we were in Limbo there Kelly. But Googling deeper, I think we're in Bolgia Nine of Maleboge, the eighth circle. What do you think?

I think you're a chronic masturbator, and that plays out in your posting style. Any other questions?

[ 25. May 2016, 04:54: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
At first I thought we were in Limbo there Kelly. But Googling deeper, I think we're in Bolgia Nine of Maleboge, the eighth circle. What do you think?
I think you're a chronic masturbator, and that plays out in your posting style. Any other questions?

You are giving masturbation a bad name.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

Martin, I think many (albeit not all) of us enjoy aspects of your posting style from time to time. The comprehensibility is quite variable though. What really gets people wound up though is that when you are asked to explain you delight in being increasingly incomprehensible.

It's pretty obvious that this is a choice, that you often feel a bit superior about it and that you enjoy winding people up by being incomprehensible.

That and the self-righteous pacifism/champion-of-the-marginalized schtick are your main besetting flaws. And then occasionally the obsequious ever-so-umble stuff. And of course the wanking.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

TBH, he would give child abuse a bad name, were he to be accused of that.

Maybe his posting style is because he is only using his left hand, his other being otherwise occupied on spewing his discordant seed across his computer.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Not at my age.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

Sort of sickening that Martin claims to be defending the poor and downtrodden while playing his incoherence games. If he cared about them, rather than using them as a perch for moral superiority he'd make arguments other people can understand.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
TBH, he would give child abuse a bad name, were he to be accused of that.

Wow, that's a very low punch.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

Much too low for me to identify with. I'm happy to identify with the frank communication regarding posting style and coherence but don't feel I want to take it much further.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
TBH, he would give child abuse a bad name, were he to be accused of that.

Wow, that's a very low punch.

And disgusting. And disrespectful of abuse victims and survivors.

Never mind disrespectful of Martin, and slinging some really caustic mud.

Grow the hell up, SC. And apologize.
[Mad]

[ 25. May 2016, 08:51: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

Posted by The5thMary (# 12953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Nutbush Finklestein

Thank you for the almost trip to the emergency room! I was eating a handful of peanuts when I read this and nearly choked on them. A good deal of coughing, spluttering, spitting half-chewed peanut fragments all over the dining room table...oh, mercy..."Nutbush Finkelstein"! If I had died, I would have died laughing.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
And disgusting. And disrespectful of abuse victims and survivors.

But probably a sure-fire way of provoking a widely sympathetic response to Martin.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

SC's OK. Like me, like many here, has frailties. I'm part of the problem here. I'm amazed that one can go too far in Hell.

Palimpsest, mdijon, points taken. Honest. I'm a prat. Sorry. Thank you all.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Sort of sickening that Martin claims to be defending the poor and downtrodden while playing his incoherence games. If he cared about them, rather than using them as a perch for moral superiority he'd make arguments other people can understand.

Except I don't think he is playing games. I think it's how he genuinelly, truthfully, communicates his responses. Whether that makes things better or not is another question. I've always just assumed Martin was wired a bit differently to most other posters.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Sort of sickening that Martin claims to be defending the poor and downtrodden while playing his incoherence games. If he cared about them, rather than using them as a perch for moral superiority he'd make arguments other people can understand.
Except I don't think he is playing games. I think it's how he genuinelly, truthfully, communicates his responses. Whether that makes things better or not is another question. I've always just assumed Martin was wired a bit differently to most other posters.

If only.

Martin60 has been hauled over the coals often enough for posting self-indulgent and pretentious crap and he has been tolerated because he can be much clearer.

Periodically he gets called to Hell or warned for this. It does little more than demonstrate the passage of time.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
TBH, he would give child abuse a bad name, were he to be accused of that.

Wow, that's a very low punch.
And disgusting. And disrespectful of abuse victims and survivors.

Never mind disrespectful of Martin, and slinging some really caustic mud.

Yeah, that's pretty fucked. Martin's tiresome, not evil.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Sort of sickening that Martin claims to be defending the poor and downtrodden while playing his incoherence games. If he cared about them, rather than using them as a perch for moral superiority he'd make arguments other people can understand.
Except I don't think he is playing games. I think it's how he genuinelly, truthfully, communicates his responses. Whether that makes things better or not is another question. I've always just assumed Martin was wired a bit differently to most other posters.
If only.

Martin60 has been hauled over the coals often enough for posting self-indulgent and pretentious crap and he has been tolerated because he can be much clearer.

Periodically he gets called to Hell or warned for this. It does little more than demonstrate the passage of time.

This. He gives the impression he is trying to conduct the discussion like a guru, not participate in it as an equal. And his habit of calling people out by name to evaluate how their progressing drives me nuts. " Oh, X, you are so very close! Here is a flowery description of what you are thinking that is less than accurate/ flattering on examination. Perhaps someday you will see the truth, which I won't tell you but let you guess at. But here, let me shower you with personal flattery that has nothing to do with the conversation, just to keep you sweet."

GOD. Who died and made you my existential sherpa? Stop delivering analysis on what other people think and tell us what YOU think.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Martin, I think many (albeit not all) of us enjoy aspects of your posting style from time to time.

hmmm... must be an acquired taste. I'm not there yet.

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
The comprehensibility is quite variable though. What really gets people wound up though is that when you are asked to explain you delight in being increasingly incomprehensible.

It's pretty obvious that this is a choice, that you often feel a bit superior about it and that you enjoy winding people up by being incomprehensible.

Yep. Which is why this thread is probably ill-advised as it only feeds whatever it is that Martin is gaining from his obtuse style choice.

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:

That and the self-righteous pacifism/champion-of-the-marginalized schtick are your main besetting flaws. .

I share many of Martin's views (at least, as best I can glean them). Which makes this all the more irritating. It's one thing to have fun and games with annoying word play when you're chatting about chicken recipes or debating in klingon. It's another thing all together when you're talking about the poor, the dispossessed, the victims of war and violence-- as Martin often is. If you really believe the things you (appear) to believe, Martin, you should care about communicating them in a way that is clear and persuasive. Because when you're talking about the real abuse and terror of life, the desperate needs and suffering, the clever(ish) word play is just Not. Funny.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Brava.

I think I hit on something in my last post. All this reliance on esoterica and pointing the conversation at other posters is just-- hiding one's self. And considering how long Martin has been a part of things here maybe some of us feel cheated at always facing a persona rather than a person.

[ 25. May 2016, 14:15: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Palimpsest, mdijon, points taken. Honest. I'm a prat. Sorry. Thank you all.

And there's the obsequious ever-so-'umble stuff. Just communicate honestly and stop trolling - that's all the apology I would need.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I think it's how he genuinelly, truthfully, communicates his responses.

Two observations that go against this: firstly the increasingly incomprehensible responses when someone asks for clarification combined with the hints of enjoyment (suggesting he can turn the gain up on the incomprehensibility) and secondly the ability to communicate clearly once in a while.

And one prediction: that M60 communicates perfectly ordinarily when shopping for groceries.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

Yes, you are right. That was rather beneath the acceptable line. Apologies, total and heartfelt.

And Martin, I don't need you on my side, OK? I can totally fuck things up perfectly well without any help, as I regularly prove.

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

I like Martin. He seems a kind person. Oh well.

Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I like Martin. He seems a kind person. Oh well.

How can you tell that in this (highly convoluted) text medium?

Posted by quetzalcoatl (# 16740) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I like Martin. He seems a kind person. Oh well.
How can you tell that in this (highly convoluted) text medium?

You seem to be saying that writing is an opaque medium. Well, it can be, of course. But it is possible to relate to someone.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
I think it's how he genuinelly, truthfully, communicates his responses.
Two observations that go against this: firstly the increasingly incomprehensible responses when someone asks for clarification combined with the hints of enjoyment (suggesting he can turn the gain up on the incomprehensibility) and secondly the ability to communicate clearly once in a while.

And one prediction: that M60 communicates perfectly ordinarily when shopping for groceries.

One observation only is necessary: When required to by the hosts, his communications become clear and maintain clarity for sufficient time to ascertain it is choice.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Martin has a wank-tank. His tank overfloweth.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I like Martin. He seems a kind person. Oh well.

I can attest that he has not been kind to me. Oh no.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Palimpsest, mdijon, points taken. Honest. I'm a prat. Sorry. Thank you all.
And there's the obsequious ever-so-'umble stuff. Just communicate honestly and stop trolling - that's all the apology I would need.

Likewise.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

Sure, I could be wrong. Heaven knows, I've been wrong often enough about people, in real life as well as on the Ship. And it is harder to guage the personality of a poster with only an on-line presence to go by. Nevertheless, that's the impression I have, mistaken though it may be.

Nevertheless, I do respect the fact that Martin80's obscureness utterly irritates and infuriates some people. And I respect that discussion on the Ship means enough to them to feel passionate about it being mucked about with.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I like the word salad dressing Martin provides. Haiku to all of the unwashed leaves.

So do I. Like his post to Kelly above with his reference to Dante's eighth circle of hell for the malicious use of reason. It's like when I watch Jeopardy, half the time I don't get the answer, but I'm very pleased when I do.

It's not like Martin is writing gibberish, there is meaning there, you just have to work for it a little bit and if you don't find that fun then scroll on.

I also agree with Anselmina that he's a very nice person.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

As Doublethink has demonstrated, you too can speak pseudo-Druidic.

But yeah, it should be more a recreational thing for the likes of Heaven or the Circus. Using it in serious discussion betokens a lack of bottom as they say in the 18th C.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I've totally, TOTALLY Invited him to the Circus before. I think he is fuckin' born for it. He'd rather play Yoda in Purg.

And sorry, quetz, Marty might have his kind moments,but smirking at people's requests to engage is not an example of a kind moment.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

And viciously trashing people for not agreeing with you is not a kind moment. Just sayin'.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I think getting drunk with Martin would be enjoyable. He's already drunk - on life and other things I would understand better if we sang some songs together while breaking glasses into a fireplace, and we don't need to know the words. God knows we can't possibly know the words. The Word is what we all want to know, and somewhere in our bicameral minds, dear Marty know truly host The Jesus. Not just any old Jesus. But I digress. The man seems cheerful to a fault. A reincarnation of Quixote, but can't find the windmill.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

El ingenioso. Miguel was right. The Spanish guy knew it. We CANNOT.

Since Siduri told Gilgamesh, since Cyrenaics were stopped by Plato, we've had guilt in the way. In schizophasic ramblings that some enjoy.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
And viciously trashing people for not agreeing with you is not a kind moment. Just sayin'.

OK, before I go nuts, can you remind me what you are talking about?

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Yes, but my beard is humble and I weep when I am struck by the tragedy of the SHATTERED perfume bottle - have you kept your brother ? Have you ascended unworthy ? Are you alright mate, because its always about Christ's gardening desires.

{Consults reference materials.}

Well, according to "The Encyclopedia of the Bible"
at Bible Gateway:

quote:
The possession of a beard was a sign of maturity among all the Sem. peoples of the ancient Near E. In most of the languages the word for “elder” or “grownup” is a cognate of the verbal and nominal forms meaning “beard”; e.g. the common Heb. phrase, זִקְנֵ֖י בְּנֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵֽל, “the elders of the children of Israel” (Exod 4:29, et al.). [...] The shaving of the beard was an act of striking and severe contrition and symbolized a radical alteration in the state of things (Isa 7:20, et al.), wherein the shaving of the prophet’s beard portends God’s judgment.

Perhaps the writer had shaved his beard due to contrition or grief, and it's just now growing back, so it is "humble"?

The broken perfume bottle is clearly a reference to John 12, where Mary washed Jesus' feet with perfume; and Judas complained about wasting something so expensive, and said it should've be sold, and the money given to the poor. Perhaps he broke the bottle, as a sign of his disgust? And later, in this world or the next, he regretted his action?

John said Judas didn't care about the poor, but rather embezzled from the disciples' purse. If the writer is Judas, perhaps he grew to realize that his actions and attitudes were wrong and unworthy?

And yet, the excerpt ends with perhaps a hint of the author reaching out for grace from Jesus, the gardener, who is also the vine for each and every one of our branches?

[Biased]

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

So here I have a choice. I could either say;

"The murine and lupine are Thrasymachus and Socrates. An accusation which isn't. Shouldn't be. Was misheard. It's Homeric instead. Between the murine and Manchester outer ring road."

or

"Kelly I think you and Mousethief are at cross purposes. Mousethief isn't talking about anything you've said about him but rather history between himself and M60"

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Catching, innit? Instead of Talk Like a Pirate Day we can have Talk Like a Marti(a)n.

Words are our birds winging from the headark (just thinking about it). Will they return with peaceable leaves? Or the the smug look of those who've shat where they liked?

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
So here I have a choice. I could either say;

"The murine and lupine are Thrasymachus and Socrates. An accusation which isn't. Shouldn't be. Was misheard. It's Homeric instead. Between the murine and Manchester outer ring road."

or

"Kelly I think you and Mousethief are at cross purposes. Mousethief isn't talking about anything you've said about him but rather history between himself and M60"

I KNOW.

Good grief, I shudder to think what the answer to " How stupid do you think I am?" would be.

As a big high Admin type mucky muck, I figure I should be aware of such things as a snarl fest between Mousey and Marty, but I'm drawing a blank. Figured M T wouln't mind giving me a short recap.

[ 26. May 2016, 07:43: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

As a lowly shipmate I obviously notice more on the ground than you as I remember the angry exchanges quite well. I wouldn't see misreading the subject of a passively-voiced single sentence as evidence of great stupidity and didn't have you down as a stupid type a priori either. The assumptions in your latest post on the other hand... not entirely worthy of you.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

.? I was calling myself stupid.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

OK, allow me to be your joke sherpa:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

Good grief, I shudder to think what the answer to " How stupid do you think I am?" would be.

... Meaning, " I imagine if people started answering that question, lists would be long and the thread would be overrun." It was an attempt at self- deprecating humor.

I have no idea what you mean by " not worthy of me." I had the gall to call Martin a chronic masturbator when we all know that is a glass houses remark of epic proportions. Whoever said I had standards?

[ 26. May 2016, 08:18: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

(And never mind, MT, someone reminded me. Better not to recap that one.)

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

So we're here demonstrating that even without the Manchester Outer Ring Road obfuscation communication can be tricky.

Still, I think you're a kind person so probably it's all OK.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
So we're here demonstrating that even without the Manchester Outer Ring Road obfuscation communication can be tricky.

Yes it can. Which is just one more reason why the shitbag's obfuscatory ramblings are to be vilified.

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

I know communication, and this Sir, is no communication.

X-post but who cares?

[ 26. May 2016, 09:18: Message edited by: Patdys ]

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

But Socratically, Homerically, untenably it is. It MUST be. It's all we have. Can have. The dove has an olive branch.

[If cross-posted who would ever guess?]

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Catching, innit? Instead of Talk Like a Pirate Day we can have Talk Like a Marti(a)n.

Oh that M60 would only post as he does for one day of the year.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I like the word salad dressing Martin provides. Haiku to all of the unwashed leaves.
So do I. Like his post to Kelly above with his reference to Dante's eighth circle of hell for the malicious use of reason. It's like when I watch Jeopardy, half the time I don't get the answer, but I'm very pleased when I do.

It's not like Martin is writing gibberish, there is meaning there, you just have to work for it a little bit and if you don't find that fun then scroll on.

I also agree with Anselmina that he's a very nice person.

Well, tbh, I don't know if he's nice or not! Just differently wired. And I could be a mug for thinking so. And I'm certainly not up to the task to always catching on what he's talking about.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The man seems cheerful to a fault. A reincarnation of Quixote, but can't find the windmill.

Since when was Don Quixote de la Manche, the Knight of the Sad Face, "cheerful to a fault"?

The hapless Knight was living in a private nightmare/fantasy where he apparently experienced life in a completely different way to everyone else and was forced to parade his delusions for everyone else's amusement.

Oh. I get it now.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

Most of us have nice and not-so-nice sides. What we should say is that this particular response is not-so-nice. There's no need to try and infer what that says about Martin60 the person in totality. I've done some shitty things in my time, I don't expect to have to call myself a shit because of that.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
Most of us have nice and not-so-nice sides. What we should say is that this particular response is not-so-nice. There's no need to try and infer what that says about Martin60 the person in totality. I've done some shitty things in my time, I don't expect to have to call myself a shit because of that.

The problem illustrated above is that if we all adopt Martinesque patterns of posting, it is bloody difficult to work out who is responding to whom, who is insulting whom, etc.

Kindly call a spade a spade. If you think I've somehow said something about Martin, then say so. If you are responding to something someone else has said, kindly do the rest of us the honour of addressing them.

Vaguely waving your anger to the general populous without specifically addressing anyone in particular and using subtleties only you can really understand is a recipe for annoyance. Even if what you are saying is supposed to be a backhanded compliment.

I hope you're listening Martin.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
Well, tbh, I don't know if he's nice or not! Just differently wired.

just not as differently as he'd like to be. And that, IMO, is part of the problem.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Vaguely waving your anger to the general populous without specifically addressing anyone in particular and using subtleties only you can really understand is a recipe for annoyance. Even if what you are saying is supposed to be a backhanded compliment.

I really wasn't angry at all. I was just stating a view, responding to the nice vs not-nice discussions that have been going on in this thread. There weren't any subtleties there. At least not intentionally.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

We're all starting to develop contact weirdness. Maybe it's time to go to the Circus and do another round of "Let's Offend!"

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Aye mr cheesy.

Sorry Marvin the Martian.

And Schroedinger's Cat.

mousethief I attacked once too often AFTER making progress. One of my long term problems of being hostile to my misperception of hostile belief in his case.

Thanks everyone.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I like the word salad dressing Martin provides. Haiku to all of the unwashed leaves.
So do I. Like his post to Kelly above with his reference to Dante's eighth circle of hell for the malicious use of reason. It's like when I watch Jeopardy, half the time I don't get the answer, but I'm very pleased when I do.

It's not like Martin is writing gibberish, there is meaning there, you just have to work for it a little bit and if you don't find that fun then scroll on.

I also agree with Anselmina that he's a very nice person.
Well, tbh, I don't know if he's nice or not! Just differently wired. And I could be a mug for thinking so. And I'm certainly not up to the task to always catching on what he's talking about.

Well, both of you, he didn't aim that comment at you, so you can afford to admire it or ignore it. If you were the one trying to figure out whether you had just been called a liar or a "malicious reasoner," in abscence of any explanation of what specifically may have earned either term, you might not find it so charming.

And it's the explanation part that is the issue. If Martin feels the comment that provoked the Dante reference was unfair, why doesn't he add something to that filagree of descriptors that tells me why?

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

I went with Cervantes because Martin is not Dantesque. Had thought of Vonnegut mating with Omar Khayyam and Kafka. But it seemed too cynical and leaning sinister. Though the 3 way could be trinitarian. The dexter was the clockwise turning windymill.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Holy fuck, it IS catching . [Ultra confused]

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

And Kelly, I was just entering in to the spirit of the place. I'm sorry.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I like the word salad dressing Martin provides. Haiku to all of the unwashed leaves.
So do I. Like his post to Kelly above with his reference to Dante's eighth circle of hell for the malicious use of reason. It's like when I watch Jeopardy, half the time I don't get the answer, but I'm very pleased when I do.

It's not like Martin is writing gibberish, there is meaning there, you just have to work for it a little bit and if you don't find that fun then scroll on.

I also agree with Anselmina that he's a very nice person.
Well, tbh, I don't know if he's nice or not! Just differently wired. And I could be a mug for thinking so. And I'm certainly not up to the task to always catching on what he's talking about.
Well, both of you, he didn't aim that comment at you, so you can afford to admire it or ignore it. If you were the one trying to figure out whether you had just been called a liar or a "malicious reasoner," in abscence of any explanation of what specifically may have earned either term, you might not find it so charming.

And it's the explanation part that is the issue. If Martin feels the comment that provoked the Dante reference was unfair, why doesn't he add something to that filagree of descriptors that tells me why?

You can in fact "afford to admire it or ignore it." It will cost you exactly nothing.

There's a scroll bar on the right side of my computer screen, and a scroll wheel on my mouse. On my phone, I just flick the screen with my finger and easily make my way right past posts from people who bug the ever-living crap out of me.

Everyone here having little fits over Martin60's posts has the technology and the brains to skip right over his posts. Instead, you keep reading them and letting them bug you and responding to them and then you come here and tell him he should change. How about you change your behavior? Before you squeeze out the color and interest that he brings to the boards and it gets just that much more dull around here.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

( to Marty)

GAAAH!

If I pissed you off, get off your high horse and say so! THAT is entering the spirit of the place!

In a moment of probably unwise generosity, I am finding myself inclined to believe you have a genuine discomfort with conflict. Even the Purgatorial version. I can relate. But real discussion means at some point you are going to be in conflict with someone at some point. Dodging it with indirect jabs and unneccesary mea culpas is just-- avoiding real conversation.

[ 26. May 2016, 17:10: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I went with Cervantes because Martin is not Dantesque. Had thought of Vonnegut mating with Omar Khayyam and Kafka. But it seemed too cynical and leaning sinister. Though the 3 way could be trinitarian. The dexter was the clockwise turning windymill.

Your literary allusion to Don Quixote makes no sense. To the extent that I wonder if you've actually read it.

I know nothing of Dante, a little of Kafka and a bit more of Machiavelli. Martin resembles neither of the latter two and I doubt he has much to do with the former.

Hence, I think you might want to stop trying to look clever and try using insults based on things you know about. Masturbation is a popular one.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I don't know why we are comparing Martin to anyone. The only reason Dante came up is he alluded to it.

And masturbation is the Great Unifier. That's why it's popular.

[ 26. May 2016, 17:26: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I don't know why we are comparing Martin to anyone. The only reason Dante came up is he alluded to it.

I suspect Martin actually knows the meanings of his allusions and has actually read the works he cites. We might, of course, mock his pomposity - but I can't see any reason to think that is alluding to things to simply look cleverer than the rest of us. If anything, he seems to think we've all read all these things and are conversant in all the stuff he throws around.

As I've indicated, I don't get all the references. I doubt many others do either.

So trying to play at the same game is a hiding to nothing and just makes one look stupid when an allusion is used that someone else happens to know is utter rubbish.

I hope that's clear and blunt enough for you.

[ 26. May 2016, 17:30: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I don't think he's trying to be clever-- like I said, I'm arriving at the conclusion that he doesn't want to directly confront people. I'm more or less inviting him to confront me, if he wants.

Otherwise, like I said, the invite to spin Quixotic wheels in The Circus still stands.

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I went with Cervantes because Martin is not Dantesque. Had thought of Vonnegut mating with Omar Khayyam and Kafka. But it seemed too cynical and leaning sinister. Though the 3 way could be trinitarian. The dexter was the clockwise turning windymill.
Your literary allusion to Don Quixote makes no sense. To the extent that I wonder if you've actually read it.

I know nothing of Dante, a little of Kafka and a bit more of Machiavelli. Martin resembles neither of the latter two and I doubt he has much to do with the former.

Hence, I think you might want to stop trying to look clever and try using insults based on things you know about. Masturbation is a popular one.

You can type with one hand?

You need to look at the Ship's gallery. When you're not streaming whacking material.

Posted by Honest Ron Bacardi (# 38) on :

Never mind about that. If you are looking for a precedent, I suggest Collaterly Sisters and her baffling "Businews" reports.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Marty, if you are still reading this, take comfort in the knowledge your style is inimitable.

(I like Marty. Reminds me of Ernest Borgnine, bless his soul.)

NP&C -- give it up. You have the words, but not the music.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Ernie Borgnine WAS Marty, 'strewth! I lack his charm. I like him best as Vaslov in Ice Station Zebra, among many memorable roles.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Soylent Green is people.

I'm not that fussy, but I'm hoping it's you people.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Ernie Borgnine WAS Marty, 'strewth! I lack his charm. I like him best as Vaslov in Ice Station Zebra, among many memorable roles.

( Sigh)

I'm inviting you to aim at the chin, and you're tickling me. I refuse to let my love for "Marty" derail me from my quest to get you to confront me. Although he was so endearing and vulnerable and-- NO!

I'll give you a head start-- I think I have figured out what I did in my first post that pissed you off enough to throw Dante at me. So, I'm prepared. But that would be a guess. The only way I will know for sure what I did is if you tell me.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Picture me this way if it helps.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Why, Kelly, I thought you were offering to hang up your axe.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Axe? I don't see an axe. I see a pissed off octopus. Gotta have the right tool for the right job.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

(If you mean, do I plan to keep my mouth shut and listen instead of snarking back, then yeah, that's my plan. I have a whole lifetime to be a smartass.)

[ 26. May 2016, 21:08: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Picture me this way if it helps.

I see a dead octopus with two arms and weird, metallic rigor mortis. But that's just me.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Or a mini Cthulu! [Biased]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Picture me this way if it helps.
I see a dead octopus with two arms and weird, metallic rigor mortis. But that's just me.

Not very threatening, in other words. Just what I was hoping.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Ernie Borgnine WAS Marty, 'strewth! I lack his charm. I like him best as Vaslov in Ice Station Zebra, among many memorable roles.
( Sigh)

I'm inviting you to aim at the chin, and you're tickling me. I refuse to let my love for "Marty" derail me from my quest to get you to confront me. Although he was so endearing and vulnerable and-- NO!

I'll give you a head start-- I think I have figured out what I did in my first post that pissed you off enough to throw Dante at me. So, I'm prepared. But that would be a guess. The only way I will know for sure what I did is if you tell me.

I mean sod me Kelly, the stream's moved on. I don't want to hit ANY ONE at this juncture, even passively. I s'pose I was niggly at you saying "that you (MtM) are not yet evolved enough to recieve (sic) his peerless wisdom". The trouble is the more I stare at it, the more I'm reproached by it. Then my pendulum swings ... being selfish is justified? I was dispensing my brand of peerless wisdom in responding against that? I was being gnomic?

Sigh indeed, bollocks to this. Marvin was justifying utter fucking bourgeois selfishness. At least he was honest. But he - Hi Marvin - kicked off at me mocking that. Hence this thread.

It's not difficult is it? I went on in that thread to overstate my utter fucking bourgeois hypocrisy, fragile though my increasingly bourgeois status is.

Neither of us is guilty of obscene excess in our own eyes. But as citizens of the world, like many here ... we are. I'm projecting my privileged guilt.

And I'm STILL grovellingly, obsequiously, nauseatingly so fucking SORRY.

Because I'm conflicted and always have been ... over conflict. Well spotted Kelly I think.

And I do, again, again, want to find a way ahead.

All typed one handed.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Well, one of the things that made me revaluate my response was that I read your first response here, and I actually agreed with you. Marv was in fact being kind of being a fucking burgeoious dickhead. The thing was, with a simple tweak or to to make things general instead of personal, the entire second part of that post would have been a great response in Purg. And IMO a lot more respectful and brotherly then trying to smooth him down with cutesy teasing,

What I did wrong-- in my opinion, since you still won't tell me-- is read the first two sentences of the post, cringe at what looked like further syrupy snark, and react. You did in fact respond fully in that post (which I assumed you hadn't ), and I didn't take the time to parse that.

Nowthe feeling I get is that you are trying so hard to keep peace that you don't seem to get not acknowledging conflict is not the way to achieve peace. Sometimes you just gotta tell a bitch to slow down and read what you actually wrote, smartass. After the clever Dante reference, of course.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

Christ above, that was actually readable! And made a straight point without any pissing about with obfuscatory wank!

Maybe there's hope for you yet. Either way, I'm claiming it as a win for this thread [Big Grin]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:

Because I'm conflicted and always have been ... over conflict. Well spotted Kelly I think.

More like spot it you got it. My own examination into my own irritation has been illuminating. I think that the reason some of your behavior puts me right over the edge is that we share some of the same pathology. I fucking hate conflict. I try to joke my way out of conflict all the time, just in a different way.

The thing about most of the people on the Ship is that they are genuinely looking to hear what people think. If not, we'd all have ditched the whole message board thing long ago and just stuck to Instagram. We do conflict good.

I confess this was a particularly important week for me to step to the plate at work and give myself permission to be righteously judgemental, so maybe part of my reaction is, "fuck, if I have to speak the hell up EVERYBODY DOES," so, bear in mind I am no Yoda myself.

[ 26. May 2016, 22:38: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Christ above, that was actually readable! And made a straight point without any pissing about with obfuscatory wank!

Maybe there's hope for you yet. Either way, I'm claiming it as a win for this thread

You could also point out I spelled "bourgeois" wrong. Soulless Tory scum.

OOOO, but Marty chided me on spelling! [Yipee]

[ 26. May 2016, 22:43: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Christ above, that was actually readable! And made a straight point without any pissing about with obfuscatory wank!

Maybe there's hope for you yet. Either way, I'm claiming it as a win for this thread

And EQ retard (sorry, fucktard, this is Hell after all), AKA bloke, that I am, I was overwhelmed by a rush of goodwill, regret, humour, warmth and sodding 'movedness', I was moved toward you Marvin. Don't worry, it'll pass. I manage to be pissed off at mousethief being pissed off at my being pissed off at him after all.

Kelly. You're a fucking EQ genius AND moron concurrently. It doesn't get better than that. Like Brené Brown.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Sorry, a fucking moron.

[ 26. May 2016, 23:04: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

[Tear]

It just gets better.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Don't worry sister, I ain't fergettin' the syrupy snark even tho' you did revoke it. That bullet was FIRED!

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

(Holds up metal fists and attempts to look menacing.)

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I don't know why we are comparing Martin to anyone. The only reason Dante came up is he alluded to it.

And masturbation is the Great Unifier. That's why it's popular.

Actually I think its popularity is based primarily on its enjoyability.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I don't think he's trying to be clever-- like I said, I'm arriving at the conclusion that he doesn't want to directly confront people.

Either that's a new thing or I was a special exception.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I don't know why we are comparing Martin to anyone. The only reason Dante came up is he alluded to it.

And masturbation is the Great Unifier. That's why it's popular.
Actually I think its popularity is based primarily on its enjoyability.

And doesn't require considering anyone but oneself.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I don't know why we are comparing Martin to anyone. The only reason Dante came up is he alluded to it.

And masturbation is the Great Unifier. That's why it's popular.
Actually I think its popularity is based primarily on its enjoyability.
And doesn't require considering anyone but oneself.

And that's another thing that's enjoyable about it.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

How did a discussion of the pleasure principle evolve from this thread?

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I don't think he's trying to be clever-- like I said, I'm arriving at the conclusion that he doesn't want to directly confront people.
Either that's a new thing or I was a special exception.

Is a mouse that thieves a people?

And as an answer to both tangents,
let it go.....

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

Can't hold it back anymoooooore
Let it go, let it gooooooo
Turn away and slam the doooooooor.

Sorry, don't know what came over me. This thread seems to be doing strange things to me.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Approach, avoidance? Projection, obsession, jealousy? Jacobsen?

[ 27. May 2016, 07:26: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:

Sorry, don't know what came over me. This thread seems to be doing strange things to me.

You're being Martinized. It can be catching [Big Grin]

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

I wouldn't suggest slamming the door.
That could lead to all sorts of unpleasantness.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

quote:

posted by Martin60

And I'm STILL grovellingly, obsequiously, nauseatingly so fucking SORRY

Yes, you always are.

And then in the next Purgatory discussion you participate in, you always immediately revert to sneering at people for being too stupid to have all the same opinions as you.

Ever since you switched to a God of grace you've been doing that. For some reason when you believed in a harsh God, you generally posted in a kind and generous style.

Why would I want to take a moral lecture on how to behave in the hardest challenges of life from someone who won't even choose to interact pleasantly on a discussion forum, which is not that difficult ?

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Approach, avoidance? Projection, obsession, jealousy? Jacobsen?

See, now you're doing it again.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by moonlitdoor:

Why would I want to take a moral lecture on how to behave in the hardest challenges of life from someone who won't even choose to interact pleasantly on a discussion forum, which is not that difficult ?

My observation is that Martin is very committed to some very specific ideas and cannot get past the thought that others are - apparently - being hypocritical by not acknowledging their hypocrisy.

Hence we have the repeated Francis, Justin, Andrew White motif to illustrate their hypocrisy on various conflicts. And Martin's repeated use of high sarcasm against those who do not immediately accept his pure form of Christian pacifism.

To me this whole schtick feels like a whole lot of wasted effort. It is highly unlikely that the Pope or the ABofC would waste their limited time lurking on these boards - and even if they did, they'd pass over Martin's comments as being incomprehensible. Indeed, the repeated phrases Martin uses have become such shorthand and abbreviated that those of us who actually have an inkling of what he's talking about are only in that position because we've heard it many times before.

That's the whole problem here, Martin: you need to get yourself some new opinions or express yourself in new ways. Otherwise you might as well just be a bot, programmed to spit out a random rearrangement of stock phrases in any situation.

Occasionally we see some glimpses of humanity, and other posters seem to be genuinely moved by what you've written. Some of the rest of us see something of the pain, but still find it difficult to navigate through all the other garbage to find what it is that you're talking about.

Most of the rest of the time, it feels like you're actually attempting some kind of self-punishment, which involves repeatedly puncturing the ideas and theology you formerly believed in. In public. In ways that you must know only you can fully understand.

Even your insults, it seems to me, are really barbed attacks upon yourself - so (maybe?) when Marvin objects to something you've pointedly said in his direction, you've actually been trying to flagellate yourself. Is that right? Were you trying to make yourself look silly and hypocritical by making a coded attack on Marvin?

I don't know, I'm just not sure this is a healthy way to behave, Martin. Of course we're all hoisted by our own petards on things we've written. I'm guessing that many of the gaps between our posts are caused by the inrush of embarrassment when we realise that our lives don't match our pious words.

But posting things that only you can fully understand is a pointless and self-defeating thing to do. If it isn't about punishing yourself, what is the point of it?

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Approach, avoidance? Projection, obsession, jealousy? Jacobsen?

This would be so much more comprehensible (and maybe even a bit amusing - in the shared joke sense of the word amusing rather than the self-indulgent sense) as;

quote:
Not actually posted by Martin60 but if only:

quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
How did a discussion of the pleasure principle evolve from this thread?
Maybe it's just an approach, avoidance, projection, an obsession or who knows even jealousy?

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

"Sod me, MUST I spell it all out?" he ejaculated.

I just thought that it was a bit rich cumming from jacobsen. Who is well in to wanking.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

Now that's communication. You must have really got the juices flowing.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I mean fuck me, is this is what it's all a-fucking-bout? Wanking? Fick.u

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Wasn't it the Babylonians that said that's how the world was made?

Anyhow, Cheesy made some interesting points.

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Sod me, MUST I spell it all out?

As I recall, yes: technically you were ordered to be less shaft-jackingly oblique as a condition of staying on the Ship.

Or are you too fucking stupid to grasp the thrust of that directive.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Just to check: are we fucking or wanking here?

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I wish you wouldn't beat your meat around the bush Oh food gathering corvine. Give it to me straight. Which would be a nice contradiction.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
I wish you wouldn't beat your meat around the bush Oh food gathering corvine. Give it to me straight. Which would be a nice contradiction.

Are you on some kind of digital kamikaze mission, Martin?

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Bugger. Sorry. I just don't get Hell.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Bugger. Sorry. I just don't get Hell.

OK, just forget for a second that you don't "get" it. Just start explaining what people have asked you to explain about your behaviour.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

OK. Thank you very much for your considered response above. I will respond. If I'm spared!

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
There's a scroll bar on the right side of my computer screen, and a scroll wheel on my mouse. On my phone, I just flick the screen with my finger and easily make my way right past posts from people who bug the ever-living crap out of me.

Everyone here having little fits over Martin60's posts has the technology and the brains to skip right over his posts. Instead, you keep reading them and letting them bug you and responding to them and then you come here and tell him he should change. How about you change your behavior? Before you squeeze out the color and interest that he brings to the boards and it gets just that much more dull around here.

What Ruth said.

IMHO: If you [gen.] feel something he said was a deliberate insult to you, I think it's reasonable to try to work that out.

But if you simply find him to be an annoying enigma, why put your energy there? Why not scroll on by to another post? You'll have less stress. And those of us who enjoy and value his posts can continue to do so. FWIW.

[Angel]

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Regarding the scroll past; it sounds simple and easy, but that isn't how conversations around here work.
The posts in a thread are intertwined, not a series of one-offs. If you are actively engaged in a thread, you may well find the post you wish to respond to is entangled in a post by someone you have scrolled past.
More than once I have had to back-track a thread to find the context of a discussion which included someone I had previously ignored.

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Bugger. Sorry. I just don't get Hell.

Bullshit. It doesn't fit the image you wish to project here to respond as is typical in Hell, but you certainly understand what that is. And there is nothing wrong with that, but please cease to pretend that you are at all ignorant.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

And for the record, I find lucid, straightforward Martin just as colorful and entertaining as Guru Martin-- if not more so. I would really like to get to know that person.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
I wish you wouldn't beat your meat around the bush Oh food gathering corvine. Give it to me straight. Which would be a nice contradiction.

And we wanna make this guy conform when he can come out with a post like that? I mean Jesus, If God wanted black and white He wouldn't have invented colour.

<the blasphemy is ironic in case anyone's wondering >

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Whew! To the above. What follows is in response to mdijon on the Has God Failed Again thread.

Er, yes, sorry, you would (not have known what the Hell I was on about). Bugger. Believe it or not I'm beginning to have a tad of self doubt. * I read about absent mindedness again this week. As I've been characterized with that since childhood. At that * point I was thinking of this Cigarettes After Sex - Nothing's Gonna Hurt You Baby. The image more than the song.

And then Evanescence sang My Immortal in Dare Devil. That and Tequila, Gin, Lemon and Lemonade. On top of Pinot Noir. More excellent Evanescence. Overload. My ex. All of that.

The doubt is in the ... gaps. Distraction. Intrusive thoughts. Even good ones. Stendhals's. I'm overwhelmed by flowers. I mean OVERWHELMED. I love it. Them. It.

But it is nuts.

It's a LOUSY recipe. Even though recently I've become more reconciled to it all. It's a lousy recipe for making any point as you and mr cheesy in particular, both have identified.

And then the girl DIES. Bugger me. That OTT twaddle has me ... in tears.

I explained away missing, completely missing, for 15 hours until it was mentioned, a vital incoming email in a tight set of five, last week, that come in every night at 19:00 and failing to respond to it, as a diabetic blip. Because that's the kind of story they need. Plus a SOLUTION. Of course.

The truth is I haven't the faintest idea. And that sums up THIS.

Chaos. And me trying to use it every which way. To make points. To conflict.

And it's NOT working. For us. For you, mdijon, and mr cheesy and mousethief and others I piss off.

So, sorry, I think I've been looking in to the pit for too long and not realising it.

Gotta stop. Gotta stop THIS. Which, believe it or not, I AM trying to make a point withal. A point of acknowledgement and full, open, honest reaction.

Er, this feels quite like a real slice of me. Sod me. I better put this in Hell.

Cup of tea I think.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

So, if I'm spared baiting an admin, I really, REALLY, will try and play a straight bat, Kelly, friends. But we're up against the wind has changed and I'm STUCK with this face.

[ 27. May 2016, 23:39: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Sod me, MUST I spell it all out?
As I recall, yes: technically you were ordered to be less shaft-jackingly oblique as a condition of staying on the Ship.

Or are you too fucking stupid to grasp the thrust of that directive.

So it would appear.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
So, if I'm spared baiting an admin, I really, REALLY, will try and play a straight bat, Kelly, friends. But we're up against the wind has changed and I'm STUCK with this face.

I for one don't think you have to stop all that ( and it might surprise you to hear that your descriptions of sensory immersion actually resonate with me) you just have to find a way to channel it. To wit-- a guided meditation thread in Heaven. A fantasy lucid dream journey in the Circus. Heck, we have a plenty of snark on the Ship, someone to help unleash our creative side could really shake stuff up.

(My channel is working with kids. Nothing like having a fifteen minute conversation about worms, cheetahs, or the awesomeness of soapbubbles to scratch that itch. )

Visualize this, though-- a raging river is not appropriate running through the after- dinner smoking lounge that is Purg. It is perfect running through a forest. And Hell thrives on a raging river of lava. Pick your venue. I am of the opinion that you can figure out a placd to unleash the beast, you just gotta think on where that place might be.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
So, if I'm spared baiting an admin, I really, REALLY, will try and play a straight bat, Kelly, friends. But we're up against the wind has changed and I'm STUCK with this face.

Since RooK did not use official Admin tags in his post, I think I am fairly safe in saying he meant his comment to be instructive, rather than threatening.

Don't borrow trouble, as they say. Just hear his advice.

Posted by W Hyatt (# 14250) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
And then the girl DIES. Bugger me. That OTT twaddle has me ... in tears.

Martin, who died? A movie character? A pet? Someone you love? Your ex?``

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

This ain't the forum W, sorry, my fault.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

Nope, still no idea what you're on about.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Sorry mr cheesy.

Does this help?

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Sorry mr cheesy.

I think you said more than enough 'sorrys' Martin.

I mean hey, marvin called you down here, he's had his pound of flesh. Some other spleen venting has gone on. The world is still on its axis as far as we know.

Time for that cup of tea I would have thought.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Sor... thanks rolyn. Walkies then salad with DUH-RINK. A full bodied red. Dunno WHEN I'll fit the tea in, usually VERY last thing on a Satdy ni'. After a movie and ... that.

Not very Hellish, sor...

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

Hey, the way I see it if My Immortal doesn't give you the feels then there's something wrong with you. And you liking Evanescence gives us something in common that's a bit more human than all the other stuff.

As rolyn says, I've had my rant here and that's all I was after. It's up to others if they want this thread to carry on, and it's up to you if you want it to happen again in a few months or not.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I don't mate, I really don't. This has stretched my paradigm, made me look in to my abyss: so thank you for the Hell call. Don't hesitate. I regard you, mdijon, mr cheesy as friends for having sharpened my iron.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Group hug.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

READY FOR HUGS.

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Metaphors R us.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Indeed.

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

Meanwhile Martin carries on being a dick.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Paul.--

No. Actually, cliffdweller linked to an article about Bebbington's Quadrilateral, which has four fundamental points about Evangelicalism--social justice, and three others.

Martin said it was 3/4 wrong. cliffdweller asked which three, and Martin said "the other three". Since they'd been talking about whether or not social justice was compatible with Evangelicalism, it's clear to me that he meant "the social justice part of the Quadrilateral is good, but not the other three".

ISTM that it's clear in context, if the reader followed cliffdweller's link.

[ 30. May 2016, 11:23: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

I had the same thought when I first read that post, but like Golden Key I worked it out. However it does seem rather close to the wind considering the discussion on this thread. And it would be worth explaining in a discussion thread why exactly it is that those other 3 points are incompatible with social activism. It's clear that many people don't find them a barrier.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

It's gonna be a learning curve, guys.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
It's gonna be a learning curve, guys.

Again. Just like the last time. And the time before that. And the time before that. And the time before that.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Yes. Place your bets for the timing of the next Calling Martin to Hell thread.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Now, now, we need our remaining markers of the Ships cycles. We've already lost the shorter cycle of the calling of IngoB to Hell.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Well, we'll wait and see. It's not impossible for somebody to change. Just very, very difficult--as I know from my own experience.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Well, we'll wait and see. It's not impossible for somebody to change. Just very, very difficult--as I know from my own experience.

You wait, and I'll see. I'll be extremely surprised if anything changes.

Where are we now - on the verge of June? We're probably looking at around early 2017 for the next Martin Hell Call. Book your seats in advance now.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

Golden Key - I looked at the thread again and I still see the same passive-aggressive game being played. He was asked twice before the "3/4" comment to clarify. After that comment he remains vague forcing one to work out the answer or ask further. Because ISTM he wants the attention.

As you say we have to consider context. And we have the context of his past behaviour where he's done this over and over.

I still see dick-ish behaviour I'm afraid.

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.

I'll go for the old old one if we have a choice. As someone said above, the Martin who believed in "God-the-Killer" seemed much nicer.

Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.

I'm probably a minority, but I would vote the old one. I have always liked Martin's posts - one of my favourite posters to read, and I would be sad if he changed and wrote posts the way the rest of you do. All this stuff about wanting to change him reminds me of the Enid Blyton boarding school stories where one person doesn't fit in and all the girls in the school have these smug, serious little meetings about how to teach them a lesson to make them change!

Seriously, I don't always understand every detail of his posts literally, but I don't with a lot of people - that is not unique to Martin. But with Martin's posts, I generally get a sense of the ideas behind them, and I also get the feeling the are not intended to be fully understandable anyway, because they are not using language in that way. So many concepts, particularly about faith and God, are huge, and people so often use words to control and confine concepts that can't be controlled and confined. Martin is one person who doesn't do this. I find his posts quite a relief to read - he lets things be messy.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

You can keep whichever you please. To me, his posts come across as oscillating between mawkish and condemnatory. Either way, for me it's a complete turn-off. That, and the inflexibility.

If he wants to play games with the rest of you by hiding behind a fog of obfuscation, and you want to buy into that, that's your decision. As far as I'm concerned, life's too short to waste it trying to figure out what some self-appointed puzzlemaster may or may not be thinking.

He's had warnings to be less opaque. We've been here before. We'll be here again. He has no more intention of changing to please those who don't like his style than they have of changing to suit him.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

rolyn--

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.

If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.

Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
If he wants to play games with the rest of you by hiding behind a fog of obfuscation, and you want to buy into that, that's your decision.

See, to me, that comes across as patronising - as if people who like Martin's posts are being played with and gullibly buying into it. I've never found Martin's posts a game. I've had genuine conversations with him.

But everyone has different things that they find turn-offs. I find posts that seem patronising or snobby a turn-off, for instance. I don't find Martin patronising or snobby. But then to you he comes across as mawkish. I find the way some people here express sad things in a deliberately tough way as kind of pretentiously non-mawkish, and therefore all the more mawkish. But I suspect a lot of these things are differences in social class and cultural norms.

How I see it is Martin is as he is, and it is not the way most people here are, but that is not a bad thing. I genuinely find it strange that he is given warnings about his way of communicating. Not everyone can communicate in the same way. Obviously I have no control over it, and what will happen will happen, but I will miss him if he is thrown out of the Ship.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Paul.--

quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
Golden Key - I looked at the thread again and I still see the same passive-aggressive game being played. He was asked twice before the "3/4" comment to clarify. After that comment he remains vague forcing one to work out the answer or ask further. Because ISTM he wants the attention.

As you say we have to consider context. And we have the context of his past behaviour where he's done this over and over.

I still see dick-ish behaviour I'm afraid.

Looking at the page on the link you gave, I see him interacting and explaining several things.
Here, cliffdweller said : "But I appreciate the unexpected clarification." He also clarified something for mdijon and apologized for not being clear, and mdijon thanked him.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Fineline [Overused]

for your last two posts.

Honestly, how many of us would be able to cope if Shipmates who don't like *us* (for whatever reasons) called us to task in the way Martin has been on this thread?

As I said earlier: If you think he's specifically insulted you, then, by all means, ask him about it. But if you think he's too cryptic, or playing games, or seeking attention (as we're all doing, by posting), then scroll on by. You'll be much happier, as will those of us who like Martin and value his posts.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Golden Key, I agree with your previous post but not the last one. Hell is for situations where the OP has gotten sufficiently annoyed that "scroll on by" just doesn't cut it anymore. If we didn't have Hell as a safety valve, we'd end up with the not-so-hidden conflict smearing itself across all the other boards in the form of sniping and not-so-covert hostility. I'd much rather have it out in the open where it can be dealt with. If the complaint is just, hopefully the named individual will learn from it. And if it's NOT just, people like yourself can come and kick the rest of us up the arse.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
See, to me, that comes across as patronising - as if people who like Martin's posts are being played with and gullibly buying into it.

That's what I believe he's doing. He's quite capable of communicating clearly if he wants to.

quote:
I don't find Martin patronising or snobby. But then to you he comes across as mawkish.

I'm referring to the stuff about bursting into tears and O what a broken wretch he is that flares up periodically in his posts. Pure melodrama. Do you really prefer someone who behaves like that, or someone who is quietly trying to get a handle on it?

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
As I said earlier: If you think he's specifically insulted you, then, by all means, ask him about it. But if you think he's too cryptic, or playing games, or seeking attention (as we're all doing, by posting), then scroll on by. You'll be much happier, as will those of us who like Martin and value his posts.

Yes, yes. We must all turn a blind eye to anything we don't like. I've done that in every previous Martin Hell call. I've kept quiet and said nothing. Now I'm saying something because the Hell calls have become a regular feature. Nobody should be a fixture in Hell. It should be a one-off, maybe a two-off, compromises met, or opinions changed, and people move on. This isn't happening. It won't happen now, either.

Posted by Daffodil (# 13164) on :

Paul said

quote:
I looked at the thread again and I still see the same passive-aggressive game being played. He was asked twice before the "3/4" comment to clarify. After that comment he remains vague forcing one to work out the answer or ask further. Because ISTM he wants the attention.

Sometimes my daughter is unable to answer a question, and seems unable to comprehend that I really have not a clue what she is on about. If she understands then I must also. I just wonder if there is something similar happening here.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
rolyn--

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.

Well, yes, but this is hell, so that's kinda the point, isn't it? And it does seem to sum up well the content of this thread.

I suppose more optimistically we could have a poll of one (Martin) re:
1. Is Martin capable of change?
2. Does Martin want to change?
Prior to asking the rest of us if we'd miss the old Martin if he did.

That doesn't really sound like much of a hell-call though. But it is something I've (more seriously) wondered about. We've done some speculating here about what's going on, I would love to hear from Martin if we're on track or waaaaay off base. But then that sorta begs question #1, doesn't it?

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :

For the avoidance of any scintilla of doubt, polls critiquing shipmates - implicitly or otherwise - are not welcome in The Circus and will attract immediate hostly attention.

Doublethink (Shipmate suspiciously well informed about the opinions of circus hosts.)

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
rolyn--

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.

I usually am bordering on sarcasm GK. it wasn't a serious suggestion and am surprised it prompted serious debate.

Hell though this is, I had no intention of being mean to Martin, certainly not in the way of picking on someone who comes across as different .

He's obviously pissed some folk and those folk have had the opportunity to have a rant at him for it. Forcing someone to change for being eccentric is the mean-minded conformism TMM

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

For reasons too visceral to explain, I'd take about two or three Martys over one rolyn any day.

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Well, we'll wait and see. It's not impossible for somebody to change. Just very, very difficult--as I know from my own experience.

The vibe I got from the above exchange is that Martin was trying to be more conversational with cliffdweller than text medium allows. Meaning, if it was just she and he talking or even texting one- on - one, it would have read just fine.

But you ( generic you) just can't do that on a public thread. You really have to be aware that half a dozen people are "listening" in, and chiming in, and that the drift of the conversation may have taken things places that really screw with the translation of what might otherwise be a direct response. Trying to work a personal conversation around a group one is disrespectful to the others ( number one) and might only wind up confusing the person you're trying to engage( number two).

( on that note, in previous discussions if this nature I have wondered if Martin got into conversational hot water by simply not refreshing the page before he replied-- that is, he thought he was responding to the last post on a thread when there were actually six or seven in the interval. )

[ 31. May 2016, 03:21: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
rolyn--

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.
Well, yes, but this is hell, so that's kinda the point, isn't it? And it does seem to sum up well the content of this thread.

I suppose more optimistically we could have a poll of one (Martin) re:
1. Is Martin capable of change?
2. Does Martin want to change?
Prior to asking the rest of us if we'd miss the old Martin if he did.

That doesn't really sound like much of a hell-call though. But it is something I've (more seriously) wondered about. We've done some speculating here about what's going on, I would love to hear from Martin if we're on track or waaaaay off base. But then that sorta begs question #1, doesn't it?

Why does it have to be so black and white? A person can want someone to change the way they interact with them without them necessarily wanting that person to change their entire personality.

Like I said, when I read Martin's response to me, and I brushed past the flattery ( doesn't work on me, chum)* and the self- abuse (extreme self- degredation being the mirror image of megalomania) I saw a glimpse of someone funny and sassy and introspective. Love to see more of it.

Put another way-- maybe you have to put on the Oz face to entertain some folk, Martin, but I prefer the man behind the curtain. My uneducated suspicion is that the curtain provides some sort of shelter. I'm happy to leave things at, " You don't need that with me."

* OK, I'll admit the Brené Brown comparison turned my head a little...

[ 31. May 2016, 03:42: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
I'll go for the old old one if we have a choice. As someone said above, the Martin who believed in "God-the-Killer" seemed much nicer.

Hmmm...I think he's been much happier, over all (IMHO), since shifting his theology, though he may have had a rough ride. Having done my own counterpart, I can empathize.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

cliffdweller--

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
rolyn--

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Should have thought it a good subject for a Ship's poll.
Those who want a new Martin against those who want keep the the old one.
If you're serious, and not sarcastic, that seems rather mean.
Well, yes, but this is hell, so that's kinda the point, isn't it? And it does seem to sum up well the content of this thread.

I suppose more optimistically we could have a poll of one (Martin) re:
1. Is Martin capable of change?
2. Does Martin want to change?
Prior to asking the rest of us if we'd miss the old Martin if he did.

That doesn't really sound like much of a hell-call though. But it is something I've (more seriously) wondered about. We've done some speculating here about what's going on, I would love to hear from Martin if we're on track or waaaaay off base. But then that sorta begs question #1, doesn't it?

Re meanness being the point of Hell:
It's for containing arguments, and venting. No one is *required* to be mean. Much of this thread seems like a slow-moving feeding frenzy. Like the kind of human herd behavior that really *hurts and damages people*--shunning someone, writing insults and lies in a slam book at a slumber party, not letting someone have a seat on the school bus or in the cafeteria, tormenting the person who doesn't fit. Not letting Rudolph join the reindeer games.

The Ship avoids "Like" and "Dislike" buttons for a reason.

Re what's going on with Martin:
Personally, I think that only matters as far as it affects Martin. Mystic, poet, not neurotypical, health problems, whatever. Maybe he simply experiences the world differently than the average person.

But he has given some clues, like on pg. 3 of this thread:

quote:
Whew! To the above. What follows is in response to mdijon on the Has God Failed Again thread.

Er, yes, sorry, you would (not have known what the Hell I was on about). Bugger. Believe it or not I'm beginning to have a tad of self doubt. * I read about absent mindedness again this week. As I've been characterized with that since childhood. At that * point I was thinking of this Cigarettes After Sex - Nothing's Gonna Hurt You Baby. The image more than the song.

And then Evanescence sang My Immortal in Dare Devil. That and Tequila, Gin, Lemon and Lemonade. On top of Pinot Noir. More excellent Evanescence. Overload. My ex. All of that.

The doubt is in the ... gaps. Distraction. Intrusive thoughts. Even good ones. Stendhals's. I'm overwhelmed by flowers. I mean OVERWHELMED. I love it. Them. It.

But it is nuts.

It's a LOUSY recipe. Even though recently I've become more reconciled to it all. It's a lousy recipe for making any point as you and mr cheesy in particular, both have identified.

And then the girl DIES. Bugger me. That OTT twaddle has me ... in tears.

I explained away missing, completely missing, for 15 hours until it was mentioned, a vital incoming email in a tight set of five, last week, that come in every night at 19:00 and failing to respond to it, as a diabetic blip. Because that's the kind of story they need. Plus a SOLUTION. Of course.

The truth is I haven't the faintest idea. And that sums up THIS.

Chaos. And me trying to use it every which way. To make points. To conflict.

And it's NOT working. For us. For you, mdijon, and mr cheesy and mousethief and others I piss off.

So, sorry, I think I've been looking in to the pit for too long and not realising it.

Gotta stop. Gotta stop THIS. Which, believe it or not, I AM trying to make a point withal. A point of acknowledgement and full, open, honest reaction.

Er, this feels quite like a real slice of me. Sod me. I better put this in Hell.

Cup of tea I think.

{Mostly quoting.}Absent mindedness, overload, gaps, intrusive thoughts, missing something important (covered up as a "diabetic blip"), his own not understanding what's going on, chaos that he tries to channel and put to good use in his posts, looking into the pit.

Whether that's something he needs to address in his personal life, I don't know. If he's concerned, I hope he speaks with a doctor. I wish him well.

As to his posts:
I like them, as do many other people. He's on my short list of "Read Their Posts Immediately!" Shipmates. If I'm reading a thread and see that he's posted, I happily go straight to his post. There's poetry, mysticism, winking wit, and my brain gets a good workout. If he were made to change, shut up, or leave, my experience of the Ship would be much poorer--as other people have said.

How many more Shipmates who are "different" is the Ship going to torment? It's becoming a habit. And it shames the Ship.

Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :

I just want to make one thing absolutely clear and then I'll probably leave this thread. I have no problem with the way Martin expresses himself. It's not that he's 'different' or 'eccentric' that gives me any pause, it's the way he treats people.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
How many more Shipmates who are "different" is the Ship going to torment? It's becoming a habit. And it shames the Ship.

It's 'coz I'm black innit. Why can't you just get on and deal with it?

Well of course it isn't you just disagree. Likewise people getting annoyed with Martin here aren't getting annoyed because he is "different". It's because they asked a question for clarification and he laughed at them, or posted something else deliberately obscure. Or because he posted some self-righteous schtick about pacifism and wouldn't engage with their views except to keep re-iterating it.

Characterizing that as bigotry directed against those who are different is not helpful.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

GK,

It isn't because he is different. It is because he can communicate clearly, but chooses not to do so. It is because he appears to choose obfuscation to hide intent.
His presentation is entirely choice.
Edited to add: I don't think it is torture in any way, shape or form. It is genuine, if somewhat self-imposed and futile, frustration.

[ 31. May 2016, 11:32: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

It isn't because he is different. It is because he can communicate clearly, but chooses not to do so. It is because he appears to choose obfuscation to hide intent.
His presentation is entirely choice.

Do you really know that for certain? A person may communicate differently in different situations, at different times - that doesn't automatically mean that when they are communicating in a way that you find annoying, they are doing it deliberately to spite you.

Posted by Fineline (# 12143) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I'm referring to the stuff about bursting into tears and O what a broken wretch he is that flares up periodically in his posts. Pure melodrama. Do you really prefer someone who behaves like that, or someone who is quietly trying to get a handle on it?

I'm not sure whether that is a rhetorical question, or a literal question - it's certainly a very leading question, using language that makes it clear what you prefer. Personally, I prefer someone to be real, in whatever form that may take. I am very aware that in British upper middle class society, expressing one's emotions in what is seen as an extravagant way is frowned upon, seen as melodramatic, and there is the attitude that one should really 'get a handle' on their emotions, and present with a stiff upper lip.

I'm also aware that not everyone is able to 'get a handle' on their emotions, and many would love to be able to do this, but can't. I am equally aware that many people have difficulty expressing their emotions, and can't always do it in the subtle ways that some would prefer, and so they may come across melodramatic, or seem to be using cliches.

I am aware too that some people do express emotions in a manipulative way. I have never got that impression with Martin. I think you guys put him in an impossible situation. You keep demanding he is more real with you, that he gives more of himself, and then when he does express some emotion, show himself vulnerable, you sneer at him for being mawkish and melodramatic.

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :

I don’t mind Martin being emotive. What I find a bit annoying is that he seems to expect the rest of us to be beating our breasts in the same fashion. Meh.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
But everyone has different things that they find turn-offs. I find posts that seem patronising or snobby a turn-off, for instance.

Good for you. And just like me with my dislike of obfuscatory wank, you're perfectly free to call to Hell anyone posting thusly in Purg, Eccles, Keryg or wherever. Go nuts. Cut loose. Tell 'em what you really think.

quote:
I genuinely find it strange that he is given warnings about his way of communicating.

I can't recall that ever happening. What I can recall is him being warned for hiding personal attacks behind his usual veil of incomprehensibility - and that is a very different thing indeed.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Golden Key, I agree with your previous post but not the last one. Hell is for situations where the OP has gotten sufficiently annoyed that "scroll on by" just doesn't cut it anymore. If we didn't have Hell as a safety valve, we'd end up with the not-so-hidden conflict smearing itself across all the other boards in the form of sniping and not-so-covert hostility. I'd much rather have it out in the open where it can be dealt with. If the complaint is just, hopefully the named individual will learn from it. And if it's NOT just, people like yourself can come and kick the rest of us up the arse.

Yep, LC gets it.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
For reasons too visceral to explain, I'd take about two or three Martys over one rolyn any day.

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Well, we'll wait and see. It's not impossible for somebody to change. Just very, very difficult--as I know from my own experience.
The vibe I got from the above exchange is that Martin was trying to be more conversational with cliffdweller than text medium allows. Meaning, if it was just she and he talking or even texting one- on - one, it would have read just fine.

fwiw, I found that particular exchange as frustratingly obtuse and unresponsive as everyone else did. Whether that's intentional or not, who knows? It could be that Martin is thinking 5 steps ahead of me and doesn't realize I haven't caught up to make the connections he's seeing. That may be a source of pride for him or something unintentional he's unaware of.

We really don't know.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
cliffdweller--

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
]Well, yes, but this is hell, so that's kinda the point, isn't it? And it does seem to sum up well the content of this thread.

Re meanness being the point of Hell:
It's for containing arguments, and venting. No one is *required* to be mean. Much of this thread seems like a slow-moving feeding frenzy. Like the kind of human herd behavior that really *hurts and damages people*--shunning someone, writing insults and lies in a slam book at a slumber party, not letting someone have a seat on the school bus or in the cafeteria, tormenting the person who doesn't fit. Not letting Rudolph join the reindeer games.

The Ship avoids "Like" and "Dislike" buttons for a reason.

...How many more Shipmates who are "different" is the Ship going to torment? It's becoming a habit. And it shames the Ship.

Thank you for that, Golden Key. An important reminder and rebuke to my tendency to get all in my head and join the crowd and forget about what's really at stake here. I'll try to keep that in mind in the future. Martin, I'm not really sure where you are in this, but I apologize for piling on.

Posted by RuthW (# 13) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
All this stuff about wanting to change him reminds me of the Enid Blyton boarding school stories where one person doesn't fit in and all the girls in the school have these smug, serious little meetings about how to teach them a lesson to make them change!

Exactly. Could not agree more.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
Do you really know that for certain?

You are correct. I do not know. In the same way I wouldn't know a person was a murderer if I saw them brandishing a knife and chase another person 'round the corner and, when I followed, found them running away from the chasee who had the knife planted in their back. The chasee could have wrested the knife away, placed it on the ground and thrown themselves on it. Another person could have stabbed them and run away with preternatural speed, been beamed up by aliens or be a master of instant camouflage.
However, it is more than reasonable to conclude the chaser stabbed the chasee. Especially when the pattern repeats cyclically.

quote:

A person may communicate differently in different situations, at different times - that doesn't automatically mean that when they are communicating in a way that you find annoying, they are doing it deliberately to spite you.

He does not annoy me, though he has in the past. And I don't think he always, or even mostly, means to annoy people. I think he posts as he does because it brings him pleasure/suits his preferred self-image. And I am not saying he should change to suit anyone. I am saying he does choose and past behaviour supports this conclusion.

quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:

I am aware too that some people do express emotions in a manipulative way. I have never got that impression with Martin. I think you guys put him in an impossible situation. You keep demanding he is more real with you, that he gives more of himself, and then when he does express some emotion, show himself vulnerable, you sneer at him for being mawkish and melodramatic.

I'm not going to deconstruct this, I'm not posting on this thread to attack or admonish Martin.* I've loads of experience with personal control, both my own and observing others and disagree with your interpretations.
I do not think anyone is expecting more of Martin than anyone else, quite the contrary. Because of the longevity of his posting style, I think he is given more leeway by many, including the Ship's admin and hosts.

Should he change? I don't care. However, this is a place of communication and if he chooses to play the way he does, it is not unreasonable for others to become annoyed enough to call him here.

*Were I, there would be no ambiguity about it.

[ 31. May 2016, 15:15: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
I just want to make one thing absolutely clear and then I'll probably leave this thread. I have no problem with the way Martin expresses himself. It's not that he's 'different' or 'eccentric' that gives me any pause, it's the way he treats people.

Bingbingbingbingbingbingbingbingbing.

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

Sorry to out you.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

ISTM that most of the posts on this thread are about how Martin communicates, and possible reasons for that--not about specific insults/fights.

As I've said, it's reasonable to talk to him, IMHO, about insults/fights.

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

I think, because occasionally Martin has had a different, more straight forward, posting style, some people are concluding that that is his "normal," style and the usual one he brings here is slightly fake. Not necessarily. I picture Martin getting a drink and settling down to the ship and sliding into a poetic, philosophical mode that may be his truest self.

Once, while in college, I was reading some Victorian novel or other, when a group of girls stepped into my room and uttered an offhand remark about what a good student I was. I replied, "Would that I were!" They never got done laughing at that, of course, it sounded so prissy to them, but it's just where my head was at the moment.

Remember when some people used to call Father Gregory to Hell once a week for being pedantic? Remember Father Gregory? See what happens.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I think, because occasionally Martin has had a different, more straight forward, posting style, some people are concluding that that is his "normal," style and the usual one he brings here is slightly fake. Not necessarily. I picture Martin getting a drink and settling down to the ship and sliding into a poetic, philosophical mode that may be his truest self.

This would make a good Purg topic, what constitutes our "real" self. I won't put unnecessary strain on our dear, sweet Hell Hosts with this tangent, but most personalities are a mix of natural and contrived. Affectation =/= false.
But Martin isn't called to Hell for his poetic soul, but for clarity. He can, and does when told, maintain both. He is doing so currently in Purg.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Remember when some people used to call Father Gregory to Hell once a week for being pedantic?

No.

quote:
Remember Father Gregory?

Yes.

quote:
See what happens.

No. I fail to see your point here.

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :

IIRC Fr Gregory left because his RL name had been used once too often. I miss him too.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I think, because occasionally Martin has had a different, more straight forward, posting style, some people are concluding that that is his "normal," style and the usual one he brings here is slightly fake. Not necessarily. I picture Martin getting a drink and settling down to the ship and sliding into a poetic, philosophical mode that may be his truest self.
This would make a good Purg topic, what constitutes our "real" self. I won't put unnecessary strain on our dear, sweet Hell Hosts with this tangent, but most personalities are a mix of natural and contrived. Affectation =/= false.
But Martin isn't called to Hell for his poetic soul, but for clarity. He can, and does when told, maintain both. He is doing so currently in Purg.

I noticed that. While still maintaining his general voice. I've actually started reading his posts again. When he explains what he's talking about, what he's talking about usually turns out to be really fucking interesting.

The thing is, he was asking for feedback. How am I coming across as disrespectful? he said, so we told him. His responses were gracious, bantery, and attentive. I felt comfortable enough to banter back ( teasing him about the flattery and self flaggelation). That may be part of his MO that won't change, but I can live with being mildly irritated by it if he can live with me being mildly irritated by it. Certain things I can't change either. (Shrug)

(And I know this is the kind of thing people say, but I really don't have the trust level to either argue with or banter with people I don't feel comfortable with, or who I feel won't respond in full faith. )

He even attempted to apologize to you, mousethief-- and not in a splashy mea culpa way, in a more or less analytical way-- but maybe you skipped over it. Anyway, it looked like an olive branch to me.

Basically droning on in Hell expressing my frustration with trying to communicate with Marty wound up making me like him a little more. So, afaic, call me any names you like, I am pretty happy to have found more reason to like someone.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

If Martin were to change, I bet it would be change on his own terms, which would not suit the complainants.

We'd just end up here again with the tedious making tedious Hell calls. Martin does not post like you because he ain't you.

Think I'll go back to sleep, there's nothing interesting here.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

I am becoming a bit annoyed at the "Stop picking on the weird kid" posts here.
One: Martin60 is quite capable of defending himself here, he is not one of the vulnerable people on this site. Several of those get hammered here for much more "normal" posting styles and do not receive the defence Martin has.
Two: It isn't his difference anyone is complaining about, just his level of intelligibility, which he has demonstrated he can control.

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

He even attempted to apologize to you, mousethief-- and not in a splashy mea culpa way, in a more or less analytical way-- but maybe you skipped over it. Anyway, it looked like an olive branch to me.

It didn't register. I missed it or wasn't in the mood to see it. I will have to look back for it.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Two: It isn't his difference anyone is complaining about, just his level of intelligibility, which he has demonstrated he can control.

One: No it isn't. The OP was about Martin making a personal attack in Purgatory, which was not unintelligible at all.

Two: "Oo look," cry the tedious, "Let's sidetrack this to be about me. Martin does not post how I want in to. Waaaaaa! <throws toys out of pram>"

Just because he can does not mean he should. Abuse out of Hell is another matter.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
One: No it isn't. The OP was about Martin making a personal attack in Purgatory, which was not unintelligible at all.

As I've described above, it is possible to read that initial exchange as a self-slap by Martin upon Martin buried under layers of convoluted text which may or may not be self mockery.

And it seemed that Martin responded in a way that might be read as (at least to some extent) agreeing with my analysis.

So, I'm afraid either the attack wasn't intelligible or Martin's responses here were not intelligible. Either way, Martin was at one point or another being less than fully intelligible.

quote:
Two: "Oo look," cry the tedious, "Let's sidetrack this to be about me. Martin does not post how I want in to. Waaaaaa! <throws toys out of pram>"

No, sorry, this wasn't ever about the posting style per say, so constantly harping on that "poor old Martin is just a find and dandy chap who is a bit different and everyone is always picking on him" is a load of shite.

The fact is that at times only Martin understands fully what Martin is posting. He appears to have acknowledged this above.

quote:
Just because he can does not mean he should. Abuse out of Hell is another matter.

Well if he wants to belong to a community built on communication, he clearly needs to post in a way that others can actually understand what he is saying and in a way that it is clear whether or not he is intentionally attacking someone else rather than engaging in the topic.

It is quite bizarre that anyone can defend one member posting drivel on these boards which nobody else can actually understand - on the basis that someone somewhere might understand what the fuck it is all supposed to be about.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

They just want to keep him all to themselves.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Well if he wants to belong to a community built on communication, <snippety snip> It is quite bizarre that anyone can defend one member posting drivel on these boards which nobody else can actually understand.

I never said it had to be understandable, and even if is opaque, it is still communication, Jim, but not as we know it.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

It's a bit like art critics who fawn and coo over how meaningful and fabulous a bunch of random colours on a canvas are, only to find out they were done by a monkey. They're all trying to look deep and intelligent to one another rather than actually looking at what's actually there.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Again, it seems like there is this undercurrant of " we the elect understand" Bully for you, but Martin himself was asking for feedback. Maybe he isn't as happy with his missives being confined to the elect as you are.

I thought it went without saying that people can do whatever the hell they want with feedback, including ignoring it. But he did ask for it, and my assumption was that his questions were genuine.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
It's a bit like art critics who fawn and coo over how meaningful and fabulous a bunch of random colours on a canvas are, only to find out they were done by a monkey. They're all trying to look deep and intelligent to one another rather than actually looking at what's actually there.

Bite me, you muggle.

-- Rothko fan.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

I would, but I'm afraid the spatter pattern from your jugular might be mistaken for a lost Pollock.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

You got me there. Pollock does suck.

( why the hell am I babbling about art? Sorry guys, home sick and very bored.

[ 01. June 2016, 21:36: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

Posted by roybart (# 17357) on :

Marvin the Martian wrote

quote:
It's a bit like art critics who fawn and coo over how meaningful and fabulous a bunch of random colours on a canvas are, only to find out they were done by a monkey. They're all trying to look deep and intelligent to one another rather than actually looking at what's actually there.

Reminds me a bit of Robert Frost:

"We dance round in a ring and suppose,
But the Secret sits in the middle and knows."

... or not.

Martin in his gnomic mode makes me think of IngoB. Ingo could achieve obscurity by being madly over-analytical. Martin achieves his own form of obscurity by playing the oracle. I imagine him as the Sybill or someone crying in the wilderness eating locusts. We ae supposed to devote ourselves to decoding the oracle.

Both Ingo and Marvin certainly get attention, greatly extending the length of threads on which they participate and being honored with Hell calls when someone gets fed up. The cynic in me thinks of something Tallulah Bankhead said:

I don't care what they say as long as they talk about me.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Stone me!

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Dude, you are perfectly capable of getting yourself stoned. Just pass it over, all I'm asking.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Kelly. I never LOL. LOL.

Eeeeeeee. It's ALL valid. No apologies necessary. I'm guilty of EVERY charge above, sometimes all concurrently. And more. I answer as if the stream hadn't flowed on. Deliberately. I felt acutely bad confessing it just there. Now you know.

I don't want to hurt ANYONE. But I'm a compulsive argumentative git on a mission, I'm a zealot, a self-styled prophet, formerly of the right and now the left; I enter in to the spirit of Purgatory as John Cleese's Sir Lancelot The Brave attacking the wedding castle. I try and mask the aggression. But as paul said, I'm a dick. Still.

A swordsman once told me I'd make a good one. Because of the polarizations I believe. The emotional swings. Thrust and regret. And yes I do feel I'm brutal in Purgatory. Ruthless. Especially to cliffdweller. I lost mousethief to that a long time ago.

La Vie En Rouge ***** that's a 5-star review not an obscenity. I HAVE tried to acknowledge that my having ANY expectation is WRONG. I realise. Thanks to this Hell call.

Old leopard new spots? I hope so. But I've alienated too many here to even hope to atone I fear. Boo-hoo. Woe is mawkish me indeed, I'm a motley old fool. And hurt people in failing to make my points which I'm DESPERATE to make. Still. Bugger.

One needs to mull. Thanks to ALL on this thread and the Ship. Night.

[ 01. June 2016, 23:06: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Respect, Marty.

And forgive me for being all teachery. I have a hard time shutting it off sometimes. Anyway, off to get some tea.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

He even attempted to apologize to you, mousethief-- and not in a splashy mea culpa way, in a more or less analytical way-- but maybe you skipped over it. Anyway, it looked like an olive branch to me.

This is the problem with being cryptically gnomic (or gnomically cryptic) --- it sure as fuck didn't look like no olive branch to me, let alone an apology. I can forgive the shark 70x7 but it doesn't mean I have to go back in the water. I've been mauled enough by this great white hope. I'm done.

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Well if he wants to belong to a community built on communication, <snippety snip> It is quite bizarre that anyone can defend one member posting drivel on these boards which nobody else can actually understand.
I never said it had to be understandable, and even if is opaque, it is still communication, Jim, but not as we know it.

Linear A is communication. But it would need to be translated if you wrote in it on the ship. Or to put it another way around, if nobody understands it except the person who wrote it, it's not communication.

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
I've alienated too many here to even hope to atone I fear. Boo-hoo.

Yeah, true remorse here. Wake up, sheeple. You're his playthings. It's exactly like IngoB, who only used us as whetstones to sharpen his prick.

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

The awkward thing - for me at least - is that MartinPCnot's primary vice is trying to be interesting. It's hard to deny that same drive motivates much of my participation too. His preferred balance of interesting seems to contain considerably less utility than I like, but I can grok why he's such an obscure mustelid-felchiing cloaca of a poster.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

And see? Cloacas are fascinating...

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
I've alienated too many here to even hope to atone I fear. Boo-hoo.
Yeah, true remorse here. Wake up, sheeple. You're his playthings. It's exactly like IngoB, who only used us as whetstones to sharpen his prick.

Dude, he was riffing off the various comments various people made about his operatic style of apologizing-- mocking himself, in other words. You still may not buy it-- and since you're the one he tangled with, that's your right-- but I don't think he was mocking the idea of apologizing.

OK, you get one, Marty, I am never translating for you again.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
I never said it had to be understandable, and even if is opaque, it is still communication, Jim, but not as we know it.
Linear A is communication. But it would need to be translated if you wrote in it on the ship. Or to put it another way around, if nobody understands it except the person who wrote it, it's not communication.

Martin is an impressionist with the Pre-Raphaelite Brotherhood complaining he lacks detail.

Monet or Rossetti? It is possible to appreciate both.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Monet? Are you kidding? Dali.

And I love Dali-- really-- but I wouldn't give him the job of drawing a Tubes map.

"Quit fucking around with symbolism, Sal, and draw the route!"

Ok, I'm done. I'm getting loopy.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

Martin is a Dadaist.
Martin is Nonsense art.
Martin is a chimp on a tricycle rolling across a canvas.
Martin is two quarks playing poker.
Martin only approaches impressionism at his clearest.
Regardless, art without criticism is meaningless.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
I've alienated too many here to even hope to atone I fear. Boo-hoo.
Yeah, true remorse here. Wake up, sheeple. You're his playthings. It's exactly like IngoB, who only used us as whetstones to sharpen his prick.
Dude, he was riffing off the various comments various people made about his operatic style of apologizing-- mocking himself, in other words. You still may not buy it-- and since you're the one he tangled with, that's your right-- but I don't think he was mocking the idea of apologizing.

OK, you get one, Marty, I am never translating for you again.

Dudess, chummy joking-around with people is a privilege, and fucking them over revokes the privilege, which must then be re-earned.

[ 02. June 2016, 03:58: Message edited by: mousethief ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Fair enough.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Oh, sweet Jesus, why, why, WHY did I Google "feltching"?

[Projectile]

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Martin is a Dadaist.

One of the fathers of Dadaism even?

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Rook--

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
The awkward thing - for me at least - is that MartinPCnot's primary vice is trying to be interesting. It's hard to deny that same drive motivates much of my participation too. His preferred balance of interesting seems to contain considerably less utility than I like, but I can grok why he's such an obscure mustelid-felchiing cloaca of a poster.

I think anyone who posts anything online is looking for attention, and we do that by trying to be interesting. Selfies, videos of a ferret in a dress, sharing personal experiences, stating opinions, debating, boasting of IKEA hacks, correcting people. And then there's all the bad stuff! [Biased]

I think there's room for many different kinds of "interesting", FWIW.

[ 02. June 2016, 07:18: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I think anyone who posts anything online is looking for attention, and we do that by trying to be interesting. Selfies, videos of a ferret in a dress, sharing personal experiences, stating opinions, debating, boasting of IKEA hacks, correcting people. And then there's all the bad stuff!

I think there's room for many different kinds of "interesting", FWIW.

Well yes and no. On one level, I suppose anyone who is looking to have a conversation with someone else online is looking for at least one other person to notice and reply to them.

But that's quite a different thing to someone who just posts pictures of themselves on snapchat/instagram/etc to get kicks out of the idea that a lot of people will be admiring them.

Looking for that kind of attention and admiration online is not necessarily a terrible thing, however the whole purpose of this forum is for the former kind of attention which involves, y'know, people interacting intellectually with the words others have written. That's only possible if everyone intends what they've written to be understood by a wider audience than themselves.

Ultimately one can write nonsense poetry and put it online because you like the idea that someone somewhere might fall over it and enjoy the challenge of trying to figure it out. But in that case the online service you are looking for is a blog.

If you are in fact looking to interact with others and are only willing to do that with cryptic messages, then you've got to accept that most normal people get bored when the person behind the messages seems to be speaking in an incomprehensible language only they understand and may (or may not) just be sniggering at everyone else's stupidity.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

Maybe we're all here because we're "looking for attention"-- seeking some human connection. There's a bit of a social contract that this is mutual-- I listen to you, you listen to me. So perhaps when Martin responds to our posts in such a cryptic way, there's a feeling that it's breaking a social contract in some way. Which says as much about us/me as it does Martin.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Martin is a Dadaist.
Martin is Nonsense art.
Martin is a chimp on a tricycle rolling across a canvas.
Martin is two quarks playing poker.
Martin only approaches impressionism at his clearest.
Regardless, art without criticism is meaningless.

Martin is the duck-bunny floating in a glassy sea of dislocated verbs and the occasional black orchid.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I think anyone who posts anything online is looking for attention, and we do that by trying to be interesting.

Well, no, not anyone. I first registered and posted here because, as your xkcd link states, 'someone was wrong on the internet'. I stayed and interaction has become a reason why. But on the few other places I post, it is simply about information. If someone else posts what I feel is the proper response, I do not post.

quote:

I think there's room for many different kinds of "interesting", FWIW.

Yes, there is. Homogeneity is boring.

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Martin is a Dadaist.
One of the fathers of Dadaism even?

groan

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Martin is the duck-bunny floating in a glassy sea of dislocated verbs and the occasional black orchid.

Instead of orchid, I would have said corpse flower, but yeah.

No, not because of that. Get you mind out of the sewer.

[ 02. June 2016, 15:03: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:

No, not because of that. Get you mind out of the sewer.

(Goggles)
You're really going to have to explain why, dear God, why? because I can only come up with the one application.

Posted by mr cheesy (# 3330) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
(Goggles)
You're really going to have to explain why, dear God, why? because I can only come up with the one application.

It looks like a massive penis.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

See?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Maybe we're all here because we're "looking for attention"-- seeking some human connection. There's a bit of a social contract that this is mutual-- I listen to you, you listen to me. So perhaps when Martin responds to our posts in such a cryptic way, there's a feeling that it's breaking a social contract in some way. Which says as much about us/me as it does Martin.

Absolutely. It says this is s discussion site.

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
(Goggles)
You're really going to have to explain why, dear God, why? because I can only come up with the one application.
It looks like a massive penis.

If your penis looks like that, I suggest you see a doctor.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
See?

Trashy people.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

It looks. Like. Fellatio.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I think anyone who posts anything online is looking for attention...

You might just as well say anyone who wants a conversation in real life is looking for attention.

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
And hurt people in failing to make my points which I'm DESPERATE to make.

Why are you so DESPERATE to make them?

It's a discussion board, it's entertainment, it's light relief, something to do in your spare time, somewhere to exchange ideas and meet other people. Not the be-all and end-all, a platform for preaching or a place to win souls.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Martin is two quarks playing poker.

Yes, I'd go with that.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

Bloody good question Ariel. It's a compulsion. Which is NO excuse.

I wouldn't mind the look of a corpse flower, but hopefully it will be a day or three before I smell like one.

Sigh.

I came here June 2001. Feels earlier. 46 then. I came very damaged just before incurring the worst to date. Nobody's fault. Any of it. And everybody's. I chose the wrong parents for a start.

I came as a neo-evangelical from a reformed cult that had had only one good thing going for it: it wasn't damnationist. Everything else was toxic, although it did reform gradually in my time of 30 years of ever deeper to complete association, until it was transformed.

It was pacifist but its God wasn't. An ... interesting combination. So I came here, the justifier of God the killer and inclusive. Another ... interesting combination.

And I encountered giants here.

And beyond. Baxter-Kruger. Bell. Nouwen. McLaren. Many more from history. Only in the past half dozen years have I been overwhelmed by postmodernism, now happily.

Where the hell am I going with this? Context. Story. Background. Explanation.

For my pissing off mousethief above all. And it's not him. It's me.

I come allergic to denominational claims of any and every kind. I HAVE to include those who reject me on some denominational basis.

He didn't. Reject me. But I kept assuming he did. I kept probing. He'd reassure. But some part of me didn't believe it.

I expect to be excluded by Roman Catholics and of course Muslims. I can cope with that. Mainly. I know LOVELY Roman Catholics and Muslims. And the Orthodox. I expect to be excluded by them. mousethief being a convert, a refugee from US evangelicalism to Orthodoxy I believe, just HAD to exclude me, in my mind.

And I found what I was looking for. Even when it wasn't there.

And even if it were, if it really is, I was wrong in how I behaved toward him.

And I'm sorry.

And I'm STILL behaving badly as paul pointed out.

"I do not understand what I do ..."

I claim to embrace myself, but I don't. I really, really don't. The raging adolescent. The worse man. Quite quietly, mundanely, ordinarily ghastly stuff. And I ... externalize it.

If I had twenty grand I'd put myself through no holds barred analysis for a year. But as I can't, you guys have had to put up with me 'refining' my fluxing position here. Warts and all.

I'm VERY grateful for SOF, for ALL of you, without exception and absent friends. Ken. God I miss him.

So, I'm in recovery, from life. And I want to make amends.

[ 02. June 2016, 20:39: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:

It's a discussion board, it's entertainment, it's light relief, something to do in your spare time, somewhere to exchange ideas and meet other people. Not the be-all and end-all, a platform for preaching or a place to win souls.

Why can't it be all those things? I think an internet message board can be the ideal place to preach, win souls, or bare your own. It can be the stranger on a plane who hears stories you could never tell the people you have to face every day.

I love getting to know shipmates a little better, it doesn't all have to be limited to favorite movies or views on predestination.

So, I appreciate Martin's post above and was thinking about Ken yesterday. I really, really miss him, too.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

I don't normally come here this late, but so glad I have. That is one hell of of post Martin.
Think KA might have been right with her ratio, even that sounds a bit generous now.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

I appreciated Martin's post as well. I feel like I understand you a bit better, and that's a lovely thing.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

Hell of a post. Explains a lot. I really do appreciate it.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Damn. [Tear]

Posted by roybart (# 17357) on :

Thank you, Martin. For the information you give us in that post and for the way you present it. I suspect you have much to teach poor souls like me,

Posted by RooK (# 1852) on :

Holy shit. Suddenly this whole drudging thing is worthwhile.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

[Overused]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Holy shit. Suddenly this whole drudging thing is worthwhile.

For real huh?

I'm gonna sing kumbaya, RooK. Kill me if you must, but that's the only way you'll stop me. This is a genuine fucking kumbayah moment. Here I go. SOMEONE'S CRYING, LOOORRRD....

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

I very quietly burst in to tears, over my muesli, which I was concerned not to get snot in, mustn't disturb the missus, who is common sense on one and a half legs. I call her 'Miss'. I then all but silently burst out laughing, Kelly.

I am amazed at the sense of relief.

Thank you.

Thank you everyone.

Thank you God.

Thank you mousethief.

(Should have left it there, but I HAVE to spoil it: The raging 'quirky' pedant in me can't fish or cut bait over whether to change 'which I was concerned not to get snot in' to 'in which I was concerned not to get snot'. What do you think? I mean I know the latter is correcter but the former is colloquial. There had been a 'for' before the 'which'. That had to go.

Moods eh?)

Yours in subclinical OCD, ADHD, PTSD, Tourette's, Stendhal's (+ whatever else it is that overwhelms me with beauty), anxiety-depression, CLINICAL RABBIT IN THE HEADLIGHTS PARALYSING INTRUSIVE THINKING! Shame, denial, shame, projection, blah-di-bloody-blah

love

Martin

(What took me so FUCKING long?!)

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Thank you back, Marty.

Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on :

I never expected this thread to reach two pages, never mind six.

I certainly never expected it to get so real. Or so feel.

I almost think it needs to be Limboed as an example of how Hell Calls can contribute to this crazy little community in a positive way.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
So, I'm in recovery, from life. And I want to make amends.

I could offer to join the club. Or vice versa.

Missing Ken too.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Heh. Last night I almost typed "you're a mess, dude- join the club " but I decided I'd used up my smartass points for the night.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I never expected this thread to reach two pages, never mind six.

I certainly never expected it to get so real. Or so feel.

I almost think it needs to be Limboed as an example of how Hell Calls can contribute to this crazy little community in a positive way.

Go for it.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
but I decided I'd used up my smartass points for the night.

Nah I reckon you had some left.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
This is a genuine fucking kumbayah moment. Here I go. SOMEONE'S CRYING, LOOORRRD....

I was only thinking about Comet the other day when we had arrived at "group hugs" stage.
Then damn it all, the very same long-lost Comet turns up in Heaven looking for a meet ??!

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
but I decided I'd used up my smartass points for the night.
Nah I reckon you had some left.

( clears throat)

You're once... Twice... Two thirds a Martyyyy...

(Sorry. [Big Grin]

)

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

Err, correction. Comet-meet is in All Saints.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
but I decided I'd used up my smartass points for the night.
Nah I reckon you had some left.
( clears throat)

You're once... Twice... Two thirds a Martyyyy...

(Sorry. )

I'm sorry, mdijon, for some reason I thought you were rolyn when I wrote that.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

From one recovering mess to another...

Thanks for that Martin.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

"It's my Marty, I'll cry if I want to" ---- Kelly?

I foresee one of two outcomes here. Either this thread is moved elsewhere or comet turns up to whack us with something rusty.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

This ain't comet's patch any more.

And yes, that grinding noise you hear is the whetstone. I'll check again in the morning: if you haven't all buggered off by then, there'll be trouble...

DT
HH

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I almost think it needs to be Limboed as an example of how Hell Calls can contribute to this crazy little community in a positive way.

If we do it in a hurry it could be a Rush Limbo.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
(Should have left it there, but I HAVE to spoil it: The raging 'quirky' pedant in me can't fish or cut bait over whether to change 'which I was concerned not to get snot in' to 'in which I was concerned not to get snot'. What do you think? I mean I know the latter is correcter but the former is colloquial. There had been a 'for' before the 'which'. That had to go.

Moods eh?)

Snot acceptable.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I almost think it needs to be Limboed as an example of how Hell Calls can contribute to this crazy little community in a positive way.
If we do it in a hurry it could be a Rush Limbo.

Groan.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I'm sorry, mdijon, for some reason I thought you were rolyn when I wrote that.

There was I think you were trying to cosy up.

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I'm sorry, mdijon, for some reason I thought you were rolyn when I wrote that.
There was I think you were trying to cosy up.

Don't somehow think Kelly is out to cosy up with me either, in Hell or out of it. [Devil]

When I lurked the Ship for a year before joining it did have a feeling of 'messed up dudes' only need apply.
It's been good. We piss each other off from time to time, that can be scary but the whole experience is often positive as this thread has well proven.

<moves swiftly out the way of DT's freshly sharpened trident>

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Look, seriously: I'd much rather this thread sank gracefully down the board than it turn into, I don't know, the Rolyn and Martin Love-In. But I can still set fire to it, if that's what you really want.

I'm glad it's all group hugs and kumbaya - now fuck off and bother some other board.

DT
HH

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :

Take our party elsewhere? [Big Grin]

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
, the Rolyn and Martin Love-In.

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

mousethief man, it's like Cat on Red Dwarf turning in to Duane Dibbley the Duke of Dork, you've lost your mojo, your elan, your piss and vinegar, I mean you've grown mellow and groannnnn punny and ... I'm shaking my head at this unintended consequence. I mean HEAVY collateral man. Please can I piss you off royally for many years again? The cure looks worse than the disease!

I mean it's as if you feel SAFE or somethin'!

Just sayin'

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

I used to regularly get called to Hell for posting one-liner jokes to other people's posts. I risked a couple here, hoping that nobody would call me out for falling back into bad habits. Not dreaming someone would call me out for falling into new.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

It's the snotty attitude rather than the length of the post.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
It's the snotty attitude rather than the length of the post.

Here we go with the snot again.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
It's the snotty attitude rather than the length of the post.

Were you here? The length of the post was the thing most cited by far. "One-liner! One-liner!" People accused me of one-liners long after I actually abandoned the practice. I had to challenge one person who accused me of posting one-liners to look at my last 50 posts and find a one-liner. They couldn't of course. (I checked first to make sure, I'm not stupid.)

So it may have been the snotty attitude more than the length. But you wouldn't have known that from the complaints.

Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on :

OK so that was a one-liner fail. It was meant to be a reference to snot and also, circularly, a one-liner criticizing one-liners. A deprecatingly self-referential one-liner that works on different levels.

Maybe it's not so compelling when you explain it. I tried.

(And yes I was here and I do remember it - as well as the last 50 post thing).

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :

That's better. Whew!

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :

I must confess, against my better judgement and having drunk a fair bit of wine, but I love you guys for making me laugh and cry in equal measure. If this is Hell, I'm in [Two face]

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I used to regularly get called to Hell for posting one-liner jokes to other people's posts. I risked a couple here, hoping that nobody would call me out for falling back into bad habits. Not dreaming someone would call me out for falling into new.

I think you need to add "...because I personally just can't fucking win, can I?" to your sig [Big Grin]

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

mt--

Your humor adds an important flavoring to the Ship. And IMHO one-liners are classic humor.
[Smile]

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

Just for you, Kelly.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

[Killing me]

Glad I saw that before I turned in.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Doone:
If this is Hell, I'm in

This isn't Hell, it's Hello. Just add your own Kitty for extra special cuteness.

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
But I can still set fire to it, if that's what you really want.

Yes please.

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :

Well, since you asked so nicely, and the denizens seem to be intent on making this an outpost of the Circus, despite my entreaties...

Thread closed. Get off my lawn. Damn kids.

DT
HH

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0