Ship of Fools: Hymns for OT saints?

Thread: Hymns for OT saints? Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

To visit this thread, use this URL:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=70;t=030494

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

I've just spent a frustrating morning delving for hymns to echo tomorrow's Old Testament passage. Do we only have 'The God of Abraham praise' to celebate Abraham? 'Mission Praise' (I know, I know....) offers no better, but a trawl through my library has produced little better. I finally found one hymn each on Abraham and on Moses in a slim volume called 'A true glory', produced by the Anglo-Orthodox Society in 1984.

Is this 'it', or can anyone suggest a better source of more hymns celebrating Old Testament figures and their ministries? Suggestions welcome!

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

'Joshua fit the battle of Jericho'. 'When Moses was in Egypt's land'...? Negro spirituals are more likely to refer to the OT than many other kinds of traditional hymn music. This is because Africans of the diaspora invested the OT with a meaning specific to their condition and experience. I don't know if this would be meaningful to your congregation, though.

There's probably something the little kids could do regarding Noah's ark. There are also some nice little songs on Youtube about the 10 Commandments.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

"Didn't My Lord Deliver Daniel"

The Lift Every Voice and Sing hymnal is a treasure trove of these.

Posted by Basilica (# 16965) on :

For Isaiah you have the glorious "Bright the vision that delighted".

But it's true: there's little hymnody that's explicitly about the Old Testament.

Posted by Anglican_Brat (# 12349) on :

There is the Lenten hymn: The Glory of these Forty Days

Which might not be appropriate outside of Lent [Biased]

Posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop (# 10745) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
There is the Lenten hymn: The Glory of these Forty Days

Which might not be appropriate outside of Lent

The different forty days which can now be commemorated this time of year, begins today 6 August, the feast of the Transfiguration and ends on 14 September, the feast of the Holy Cross.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

What about Jacob's Ladder?

Posted by Offeiriad (# 14031) on :

Hmm, we seem to have identified a hole in the market, don't we? I'm a bit surprised, given the renewed emphasis on our Jewish roots in recent years.

Perhaps somebody needs to write something along the lines of 'By all the saints in warfare...' - i.e. 'general' verses to start and end, with a choice of middle verses relating to individual OT personalities? It has been years since I wrote a hymn and I'm considerably out of practice, but maybe it needs to be yet another retirement project.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

The problem is, perhaps, that mainstream Christians have spent a lot of time distancing themselves from the OT and its roughness, so to suddenly start writing serious songs about it would require quite a bit of justification.

Anyway, as for the OP, why not just have everyone sing 'When the saints go marching in'? It doesn't specify who the 'saints' are, so perhaps the congregation could be encouraged to envision different OT prophets as they sing it.

[ 06. August 2016, 18:18: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posted by BabyWombat (# 18552) on :

God of the Prophets, Bless the prophets heirs? (or sons if you must…..) - at least the first 2 verses….. (not quite Abraham or Moses though is it?……hmmmm)

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
The problem is, perhaps, that mainstream Christians have spent a lot of time distancing themselves from the OT and its roughness, so to suddenly start writing serious songs about it would require quite a bit of justification.

I think that's a pretty broad overgeneralization. Neither assertion is true of all mainstream Christian traditions.

In just a quick look through the new Presbyterian hymnal, I find Brian Wren's "Deep in the Shadows of the Past," Judith A. Fetter's "To Abraham and Sarah (I Will Be Your God)," "When Israel Was in Egypt's Land (Let My People Go)", Greg Scheer's paraphrase of the Rwandan "Heaven Opened to Isaiah (Holy, Holy, You Are Holy)," and Joy Patterson's "Isaiah the Prophet Has Written of Old,"

And, of course, for just drawing on the OT, there are metrical psalms.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

I wasn't thinking of worldwide Presbyterianism, true.

My experience of that movement has been via the British URC. I haven't had the impression that the URC is particularly fond on OT-focused hymns, but my impression could well be inaccurate.

Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :

We used to sing lots of songs about Old Testament characters in Sunday School. But these were basic narratives of the story, not vehicles of teaching or worship.
There may be less hymns relating to the Old Testament as the messages in the stories are often more ambiguous, perhaps?

There's an old hymn about the call of Samuel, "Hushed was the evening hymn" but I haven't heard it for years.
Adam and Eve appear in some traditional carols, e.g. "This is the truth sent from above".
I'll give this a bit more thought - may be back later.

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
We used to sing lots of songs about Old Testament characters in Sunday School. But these were basic narratives of the story, not vehicles of teaching or worship.
There may be less hymns relating to the Old Testament as the messages in the stories are often more ambiguous, perhaps?

There's an old hymn about the call of Samuel, "Hushed was the evening hymn" but I haven't heard it for years.
Adam and Eve appear in some traditional carols, e.g. "This is the truth sent from above".
I'll give this a bit more thought - may be back later.

ALong with this about Samuel, we also used to sing "dare to be a Daniel." I found I could still go through most of the words to these two in my mind. I have no idea how long since I sang these, but it was a long time ago.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Are there so many New Testament hymns of this sort, then? Because I can't think of many here, either. I think that hymns dealing with specific people are just not a focus for the musical traditions I know best (well, bar Jesus, of course).

We do have the plain narrative type of song ("Zacchaeus was a wee little man..."), but then we have those for the OT also ("The Lord said to Noah" and etc.) And we have the Scriptural paraphrases ("Isaiah, mighty seer, in spirit soared...") But our hymns are almost wholly focused on either the Lord himself or on some particular concept ("Amazing grace" and etc.) We just don't do people-centered stuff. Even "For all the saints" is focused on a concept, that of the Church Universal.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:
Perhaps somebody needs to write something along the lines of 'By all the saints in warfare...' - i.e. 'general' verses to start and end, with a choice of middle verses relating to individual OT personalities? It has been years since I wrote a hymn and I'm considerably out of practice, but maybe it needs to be yet another retirement project.

Retirement project or circus game. The sillier the rhymes the better, in my book.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
But our hymns are almost wholly focused on either the Lord himself or on some particular concept. . . . We just don't do people-centered stuff.

With the exception, of course, of the Blessed Mother.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:

quote:
Originally posted by Offeiriad:
Perhaps somebody needs to write something along the lines of 'By all the saints in warfare...'
Retirement project or circus game. The sillier the rhymes the better, in my book.

I feel a Circus thread coming on!

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

Right there are plenty of hymns with Old Testament references according to Cyberhymnal; here are those for Genesis

For the precise passage Rejoice and Sing has a second option,
To Abraham and Sarah
The call of God was clear.
I found it by getting out my Music copy of Rejoice and Sing and looked in the Scripture index. You will find a scripture index in most Reformed hymn books and many others as well.

I think it goes back to singing psalms and Biblical canticles. We want a scriptural backing for hymns if possible.

Jengie

p.s. If someone is desperate for a different selection of hymns with a scriptural index then Canterbury Press have a sale on of Church Hymnary 4 at present. I have no connection with Canterbury Press.

[ 07. August 2016, 16:45: Message edited by: Jengie jon ]

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

I have so little connection that I forgot the important detail, you need to get it under "Hymns of Glory, Songs of Praise" rather than as CH4.

Jengie

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :

I have so little connection with Canterbury Press I had not checked the offer. I missed an important detail, you need to get it under "Hymns of Glory, Songs of Praise" rather than as CH4. It is the same book but a different cover.

Jengie

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
Right there are plenty of hymns with Old Testament references according to Cyberhymnal; here are those for Genesis.

Yes, there are lots of hymns with OT references and allusions. But that's not what the OP asked about; the OP asked about "hymns celebrating Old Testament figures and their ministries."

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
But our hymns are almost wholly focused on either the Lord himself or on some particular concept. . . . We just don't do people-centered stuff.
With the exception, of course, of the Blessed Mother.

It's why I said "our." We're Lutheran.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

There's a Hillsong one about 'These are the days of Elijah'. It also mention Moses, Ezekiel and David, and there's an additional verse sung locally about Hosea.

Posted by Aravis (# 13824) on :

These are some of the songs I remember from Sunday School, or occasionally from church. We would have been singing these in the 1970s:

- Mr Noah built an ark
- The Lord told Noah to build him an arky arky
- Father Abraham had many sons
- As Jacob with travel was weary one day
- How did Moses cross the Red Sea
- The Ravens' wings went flap, flap, flap (Elijah)
- Only a boy called David
- When the spirit of the Lord is within my heart I will dance as David danced
- Dare to be a Daniel
- Daniel was a man of prayer

That's all I can think of at the moment. We also learnt most of the Joseph songs in school.
I still remember bits of a poem about Abraham's sacrifice of Isaac which I had to recite on stage (solo) at a very, very young age. We were taught Bible stories very thoroughly, even quite obscure ones.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

A major trouble with some of those songs, though, is that they aren't suitable for an all age congregation to sing. There is a difference between childlike faith and childish faith. Asking an adult congregation as part of its regular Sunday worship to sing,
- The Lord told Noah to build him an army army
or
- The Ravens' wings went flap, flap, flap (Elijah)
is encouraging the latter, not the former.

Posted by Baptist Trainfan (# 15128) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jengie jon:
You will find a scripture index in most Reformed hymn books and many others as well.

I think it goes back to singing psalms and Biblical canticles. We want a scriptural backing for hymns if possible.

There's certainly a Scriptural index in "Baptist Praise and Worship" and "Songs of Fellowship" but not "Mission Praise". Such indices are of varying quality and utility.

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
There's a Hillsong one about 'These are the days of Elijah'. It also mention Moses, Ezekiel and David, and there's an additional verse sung locally about Hosea.

That is by Robin Mark, not Hillsong. Performance Here.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

There's a marvelous carol in IIRC the University Carol Book, titled 'Carol of the Exodus.'
Contains these fascinating lines:

'Moses sing unto Christ thy King
Who has won the victory ...
As here we stand with harp in hand
By the shores of the red, red sea.'

I may not be quoting exactly. I would love to incorporate it into the Easter Vigil!

Posted by gog (# 15615) on :

There is Moses I know you are the man with a copy of the words behind the link

Posted by Baker (# 18458) on :

I'm Episcopal now, but I'm showing my Lutheran roots when I offer this next one up. I've never sung it outside of a Lutheran church. We didn't sing it often but I remember it well because the tune, while odd, was better than the stodgy stuff we often got.

It's about Isaiah, and there's two wordings, one the original and another with updated wording.

"Isaiah, Mighty Seer in Days of Old"

http://ingeb.org/spiritua/isaiahmi.html

Posted by The Scrumpmeister (# 5638) on :

The Byzantine Rite has a great many hymns to saints of the Old Testament, which can be easily sung to the appointed tones. However, if you're looking for metrical hymns, there are fewer of those.

"Holy Anna, Judah's glory" (to Daily, daily) comes to mind as a bridge between testaments.

[ 12. August 2016, 06:12: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]

Posted by venbede (# 16669) on :

Bright the vision that delighted
Once the sight of Judah's seer.

Judah's seer is Isaiah. At school I took it to be "Once the sight of Judah's sneer" as a reference to Christ's mocking.

Posted by Gwalchmai (# 17802) on :

When I was at school we used to sing "The Daniel Jazz" - not a hymn as such, bit a good rousing piece to sing.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Aravis:
These are some of the songs I remember from Sunday School, or occasionally from church....

I handed music director a song I wrote about God being just in time even though he seems late, citing OT firey furnace rescue, NT Lazarus dead before Jesus got there, and a 60 year old "you" facing problems today (one verse each example). Music director took a quick look and said "oh a kiddie song." Not, but apparently to some minds reference to a Bible story means it is only for kids.

Which suggests there are songs, just not being used in adult environments.

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0