Ship of Fools: The Eastern Orthodox and the Culture Wars

Thread: The Eastern Orthodox and the Culture Wars — 'home and abroad' Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by S. Bacchus (# 17778) on :

My experience (which may not be normative) of Orthodox congregations (Russian and Greek) in the western world seems to suggest that they're not particularly involved in or interested in the 'culture wars'. That is to say, they may be socially conservative within their own communities, but don't seem to spend the same degree of energy trying to make sure everyone else lives a lifestyle they'd approve of, as do many Roman Catholics and conservative Protestants.

In contrast, the Russian Orthodox Church actually in Russia has recently been in the news in what is a pretty damning light because of its support for Putin's aggressively homophobic legislation. Just a few months ago, it was the Georgians, with some priests throwing stones and pretty clearly inciting violence in the Tblisi riots, which were at least in part, about homosexuality.

Do other posters (particularly Orthodox themselves) see this discrepancy and, if they do, have any ideas about probable reasons why?

Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :

Unofficial Establishment?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

I disagree with the discrepancy. The OCA bishops, and many priests and laity, seem keen on getting involved in the Culture Wars, and appear to be playing catch-up with the Protestants and Catholics to show loudly and vocally how much they hate teh gayz. It's rather dispiriting. Even if one thinks homosexuals, or "homosexual activity," are sinful, one doesn't really need to take up sermon time with it. We're not in church to cluck our tongues about other people's sins. We're in church to be healed of our own. Every Sunday we each individually call ourself the chief of sinners. If we say LGBT folks are beyond the pale, we clearly don't believe it and perjure ourselves.

Posted by Palimpsest (# 16772) on :

One of the amusing developments in the culture wars in the US has been the coalition of Conservative Roman Catholics like Pat Buchanan and the bishops with Fundamentalists like Pat Robertson and Orthodox Rabbis as they circle the wagons against the Gays. They are willing to forget their past history of viewing each other as tools of the devil as they become minor outliers of modern society.

Can it be a surprise that there are a group of Orthodox Christians who want to leap in to the circle?

I doubt the Gays will get any credit for healing the wounds of schism. [Big Grin]

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
Can it be a surprise that there are a group of Orthodox Christians who want to leap in to the circle?

Not in the least.

quote:
I doubt the Gays will get any credit for healing the wounds of schism.

Posted by Justinian (# 5357) on :

I think there are three reasons here.

1: The Laity haven't been as carefully taught as the priests in any denomination.

2: The Orthodox are a traditionalist church with weak roots in America and Western Europe. And people tend to leave.

3: You haven't been paying attention.

Off the top of my head it isn't just the Russians but the Georgian Orthodox, Serbian Orthodox, Romanian Orthodox, and Bulgarian Orthodox. Or (including Russia) all five Junior Patriarchates. I selected the junior not the senior because I have no idea where Antioch, Alexandria, Constantinople, or Jerusalem have authority (and google was little help) and although I found something the Greek I can't tell whether that's one of the three senior Patriarchates calling itself Greek (or even the one that doesn't) or the Autocephalous Archbishopric.

[ 04. August 2013, 08:26: Message edited by: Justinian ]

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

That's Anthimos of Thessalonica-- offhand I can't recall if that's the little bit of Greece which is still part of the Constantinopolitan patriarchate or if it is in the Church of Greece-- I think the latter, but cannot be certain. Salonika has in recent centuries been the York to Athen's Canterbury, so it is a relevant voice.

As Mousethief points out, OCA bishops seem to be jumping on the cultural wars bandwagon (just as it's running out of steam). This has been causing some pastoral difficulty in at least two places I know of in Canada, where parishioners have been leaving-- homophobic comments are no longer considered part of civil discourse here.

As one acquaintance noted, being on the cutting edge of 451 is cutting edge; being on the cutting edge of 1957 is not.

[sentence regarding legal matters taken out at poster's request - L]

[ 04. August 2013, 13:49: Message edited by: Louise ]

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

As a minor double post for clarification--- the Canadian diocesan administrator Irenée has not been one of the cultural wars bishops to my knowledge. The comments to which I refer were in parish settings.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
As one acquaintance noted, being on the cutting edge of 451 is cutting edge; being on the cutting edge of 1957 is not.

Although "451" immediately makes me think of book burning, not church history.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
As one acquaintance noted, being on the cutting edge of 451 is cutting edge; being on the cutting edge of 1957 is not.

Although "451" immediately makes me think of book burning, not church history.

Sorry, Mousethief, not a day passes when I do not think of Chalcedon, but one unkind friend suggests that this is due to my conversations with the charming Copt barista at my local café.

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