Ship of Fools: Yes... it's those TMI verses

Thread: Yes... it's those TMI verses Board: Chapter & Worse / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

I'm thinking we should add an extra category to this project... verses least likely to be read out in church. These aren't verses which create ethical dilemmas for modern readers, but verses which make you cry out: "Whooah! Too much information!"

So this thread is here for you to post your favourite TMI verses. Please post the verse, the reference and your comment, in that order. And feel free to comment on the verses already posted.

We'll collect up the most embarrassing of them and run a poll for the worst (or best, depending on which way you look at it). To get us started, here are some verses already submitted.

[ 03. August 2009, 21:22: Message edited by: Simon ]

Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

Verse nominated by Gill H

"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses." (Ezekiel 23:20, in context)

Gill H comments: I have nightmares about being asked to read it in church!

Gort comments: Seems a bit pornographic for a Biblical verse.

Bryony Taylor comments: It's just "ewwwwww"!

Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

Verse nominated by Rachel

"And Ehud put forth his left hand, and took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly: And the haft also went in after the blade; and the fat closed upon the blade, so that he could not draw the dagger out of his belly; and the dirt came out." (Judges 3:21-22, in context)

Rachel comments: Frankly, it's disgusting! I mean who needs details like that?

Leaf comments: Shit, fat, violence... what more could you want? The disturbing Quentin Tarantino-like focus on the details of the assassination of fat King Eglon of Moab in itself makes this verse worthy of nomination. (The gleeful retelling adds more scatological humour; in verse 24, we find that the king's servants thought he was taking a particularly long dump.)

Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

Verse nominated by Cladonia

"I wish that everyone who is upsetting you would not only get circumcised, but would cut off much more!" (Galatians 5:12, in context)

Cladonia comments: This verse is brutal and gross, but particularly so as it is the conclusion of a parable with a circumcision theme.

Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

Verse nominated by Orlando

"Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh." (Isaiah 16:11, in context)

Orlando comments: "My bowels shall sound like an harp"?? Was the prophet some sort of early version of this chap?

Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

Verse nominated by David Branson

"For the whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall..." (2 Kings 9:8, in context)

David comments: One of those verses that will never, ever be quoted in church, at least not in the King James Version.

Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

And one of my own faves...

"And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." (Acts 9:5, in context)

When I first started reading the Bible, age 16, my eyes almost popped out and fell on the page when I saw these words. Who were these pricks who were giving Paul such a hard time? I've never heard this verse read out in church in the KJV... despite fervently praying for it.

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

I'll stick up for the Ehud one. An anti-obesity sentiment, and it champions left-handers too. Us southpaws get a pretty raw deal in the Bible otherwise, so I wouldn't want to lose this one.

(Then again, there's a theory that God the Father is left-handed. He has to be. Jesus is sitting on His right hand.)

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

I love the Ballad of Ehud the Left-Handed and Eglon the Fat! One of my favourite bible stories!

Posted by Custard. (# 5402) on :

It's also invaluable when trying to get teenaged lads interested in the Bible....

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

What is it with the Book of Judges? Have you seen how many Chapter & Worse nominations there are from this one book alone?

I was going to set myself a little summer project to read through from Joshua to 2 Kings, but I'm thinking I might now skip a Certain Book....

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

Adeodatus, I read Joshua, Judges, Samuel 1&2 and Kings 1&2 last year and have got less than impressed at teaching the OT - having read the stories in context.

I'm currently reading Ezekiel and am not much more impressed, but at least Ezekiel is prophecy not a historical book (it's not featuring as much as it should, maybe).

[ 04. August 2009, 15:36: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]

Posted by Simon (# 1) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I'm currently reading Ezekiel and am not much more impressed, but at least Ezekiel is prophecy not a historical book (it's not featuring as much as it should, maybe).

Would you like to nominate some of those troublesome Ezekiel verses, CK?

Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :

See, I'd never skip Judges! There are enough great stories in it that even as a kid I found it easy and appealing reading.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

The problem with Ezekiel isn't which verses to get rid of, it's which to keep. You've got the image of the sack of Jerusalem early on where you have to eat your children and cook on human dung, and it goes on through graphic descriptions of how all the different cities in the neighbourhood are going to be sacked and ruined. Occasionally you get a lyrical bit describing how lovely something was, before it got ruined ... and so it continues.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

Is that the book where the two women are fighting over who eats who's baby next, or is that Judges also?

(Off to research)

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

(back) Nope, sorry. 2 Kings 6:28.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

of COURSE the book of Judges is horrid. It's a description of people at their worst. "Every man does what is best in his own eyes," society goes to hell, their enemies swoop in and conquer everything, they repent. God rescues them, they behave for a handful of years, then....

rinse, lather, repeat. At least seven times.

The worst of it is it's so terribly predictable.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I was a pretty ghoulish kid; I remember reading these Judges, Kings, and the law books avidly. Probably set me up to be a Stephen King fan.

Posted by the gnome (# 14156) on :

Has anyone mentioned Deuteronomy 23:13?

And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee.

It's pretty good advice, and not far off from what I told my students to do when I was a teacher leading wilderness field trips. But does it really belong in Holy Writ?

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

Of course it does. What would the confirmands have to giggle at else?

Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :

"It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." I also discovered this as a teenager, and it has been a source of great comfort for me through the years.

Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :

Gill H. on Judges 3:22:

quote:
I'll stick up for the Ehud one. An anti-obesity sentiment...

Would that be in the same sense in which Psalm 137:9 is a pro-birth control sentiment? [Ultra confused]

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the gnome:
But does it really belong in Holy Writ?

Along with all the rules about how to deal with mildew and everything else like that, why not?

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Gill H. on Judges 3:22:
quote:
I'll stick up for the Ehud one. An anti-obesity sentiment...
Would that be in the same sense in which Psalm 137:9 is a pro-birth control sentiment?

Nice one, Leaf!

OK, I wasn't being serious. But am I the only one who has a mental picture of Eglon as Elvis? For that alone, you have to keep it in.

Posted by Jolly Jape (# 3296) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
"It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." I also discovered this as a teenager, and it has been a source of great comfort for me through the years.

I think Nick Cave, (never, IME one to let a good juicy biblical metaphor fall by the wayside) saw the same humour. Now that is a seriously good album title!

Posted by Joan_of_Quark (# 9887) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
Verse nominated by David Branson

"For the whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall..." (2 Kings 9:8, in context)

David comments: One of those verses that will never, ever be quoted in church, at least not in the King James Version.

If only this were true... however, youtube knows different.

fruit tube item

(I guess it depends on whether you count breakaway groups founded by self-taught fundamentalists as churches).

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Joan_of_Quark:
(I guess it depends on whether you count breakaway groups founded by self-taught fundamentalists as churches).

You mean like Martin Luther? [Biased]

Posted by Orlando098 (# 14930) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the gnome:
Has anyone mentioned Deuteronomy 23:13?

And thou shalt have a paddle upon thy weapon; and it shall be, when thou wilt ease thyself abroad, thou shalt dig therewith, and shalt turn back and cover that which cometh from thee.

In context it is even odder, as it seems this is advice is important because God might tread in their dung:

....for the LORD thy God walketh in the midst of thy camp, to deliver thee, and to give up thine enemies before thee; therefore shall thy camp be holy

Posted by basso (# 4228) on :

Joshua 5:2-3 (in the King James):

quote:

2 At that time the Lord said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives, and circumcise again the children of Israel the second time.
3 And Joshua made him sharp knives, and circumcised the children of Israel at the hill of the foreskins.

Odd how many of these passages involve circumcision, isn't it?

The NRSV squeamishly leaves the Hebrew for Hill of Foreskins untranslated. The last time I read the passage in church, verse 3 was omitted entirely.

Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:

quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
"It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks." I also discovered this as a teenager, and it has been a source of great comfort for me through the years.
I think Nick Cave, (never, IME one to let a good juicy biblical metaphor fall by the wayside) saw the same humour. Now that is a seriously good album title!

Thanks Jolly Jape, I finally understand that verse now!

When I was little someone brought us a hollowed-out gourd from somewhere 'abroad' as a novelty. Once I'd learned what a gourd was, I thought it was 'kick against the gourds' for ages - I think I assumed Saul was carrying water in them on his journey or something.

Posted by Orlando098 (# 14930) on :

Some other rather TMI ones:

Deuteronomy 23

1He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD.

Deuteronomy 25:11-12.
When men strive together one with another, and the wife of the one draweth near for to deliver her husband out of the hand of him that smiteth him, and putteth forth her hand, and taketh him by the secrets: Then thou shalt cut off her hand

II Kings 18:27. hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you?

Malachi 2:2-3, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces, even the dung of your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.

Posted by Angel Wrestler (# 13673) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
Verse nominated by David Branson

"For the whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall..." (2 Kings 9:8, in context)

David comments: One of those verses that will never, ever be quoted in church, at least not in the King James Version.

Check the Fruit Tube videos

Posted by TiggyTiger (# 14819) on :

Why does it call Ahab's penis, 'him'?

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

[Killing me]

Nice one.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

Because there is no gender-neutral pronoun in Hebrew and the translators were having a bit of fun?

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :

Oh! Um, actually it seems to me that it is not referring to Ahab's penis as "him" -- I've seen this verse translated as cutting off the males of Ahab's tribe, i.e. males being the ones who piss against walls rather than squatting.

Posted by TiggyTiger (# 14819) on :

I thought as much - how disappointing. My NEB says 'I will destroy every mother's son of them.' That sounds a bit like 'every son of a bitch'.

You know when Jacob was wounded in 'the thigh'. I was told that was a euphemism for wounded in 'the testicles'. Anyonw know anything about that?

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

I know just enough to know that anything from feet to thighs to probably elbows has been proposed as a euphemism for testicles, usually on what seems to me very flimsy grounds ("well it makes the verse make more sense that way" for instance). Could have been his thigh. Could have been his testicles, I suppose. ISTM the Bible isn't terribly squeamish about delicate body parts in other places.

Posted by TiggyTiger (# 14819) on :

Of course I may have got this confused with the story of the Fisher-King....

Posted by Lumpy da Moose (# 9038) on :

Wish you had started this before my Year One EfM class! Especially the OT quotes--!!

(Starting Year Two [NT] next week)

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Simon:
Verse nominated by David Branson

"For the whole house of Ahab shall perish: and I will cut off from Ahab him that pisseth against the wall..." (2 Kings 9:8, in context)

David comments: One of those verses that will never, ever be quoted in church, at least not in the King James Version.

Many years ago, when I was at seminary, it seemed that the rota for readers at Evensong was always jiggered so that the shyest and most nervous Junior always had to read this passage.

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

And OF COURSE, it was read from the KJV!

Posted by Resurgam (# 14891) on :

Talking about TMI--I had to read the lesson on July 26, the eighth Sunday after Pentecost. I've been layreading for ten years, but this was the first time I've had to read aloud (in slow, careful cadences)about Bathsheba's period. [Roll Eyes]

(2 Samuel 11:4)

Posted by amber. (# 11142) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Resurgam:
Talking about TMI--I had to read the lesson on July 26, the eighth Sunday after Pentecost. I've been layreading for ten years, but this was the first time I've had to read aloud (in slow, careful cadences)about Bathsheba's period. (2 Samuel 11:4)

Colleague of mine had to read out something similar in front of a Bishop they were trying to impress fairly recently. I'll give them and the congregation points for trying to maintain composure...

Posted by Anselm (# 4499) on :

Speaking of women's periods

One of the greatest passages from Ezekiel has to be chapter 36 (vs 16-38), but there, right at the opening of this fantastic passages of how God will save his people is the language used to describe the sinfulness of the people of Israel...

quote:
verse 17
"Son of man, when the house of Israel lived in their own land, they defiled it by their ways and their deeds. Their ways before me were like the uncleanness of a woman in her menstrual impurity."

Hard for the modern ear not to be distracted at that point.

Posted by The Great Gumby (# 10989) on :

My favourite TMI verse, already alluded to, is Ezekiel 4:12:

quote:
Eat the food as you would a barley cake; bake it in the sight of the people, using human excrement for fuel

Although to be fair, that was later reduced to cooking with cow dung on appeal. Ezekiel must have been smoking some crazy shit. [Biased]

I was also recently surprised by Mark 10:13a when hearing it out of context:

quote:
People were bringing little children to Jesus to have him touch them

I don't know if it really belongs here, but for a moment it certainly made me go [Eek!]

Posted by Helen-Eva (# 15025) on :

I think my church must use a Bowdelerised Bible. I've never noticed any verses like this! Is it just the King James version that has them?

Posted by Orlando098 (# 14930) on :

No, but sometimes the KJV versions sound the worst because they are not bothered about using quite earthy vocabulery... Some of the more recent ones go for more polite translations in some cases. Check yours - it should have all the verses here in some form or another, unless it really is a bowdlerized version.

Posted by DagonSlaveII (# 15162) on :

This says it all.

Posted by Paddy O'Furniture (# 12953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I was a pretty ghoulish kid; I remember reading these Judges, Kings, and the law books avidly. Probably set me up to be a Stephen King fan.

A friend of mine (ex-Catholic, which might explain a lot) told me she used to masturbate while reading the book of Revelation! Ewwwwww! Them Catholic school kids... how weird! She was ten years old at the time.
[Killing me]

Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :

quote:
Originally posted by DagonSlaveII:
This says it all.

That's a keeper!

I'm still trying to draw the connection between Revelation and masturbation, though, Paddy-O. You'd think I could get my head around it, having been a little Catholic girl myself, but no dice.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

The horses, Janine. The horses.

quote:
The identification of horses with sex can be seen through our own euphemistic expressions for sex or sexual activity: 'riding', 'mounting', etc. Horses therefore, may appear in dream as symbols of virility and/or fertility

[ 25. January 2010, 00:46: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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