quote:Originally posted by Dafyd:Incidentally I don't think quantum indeterminacy is relevant here. In so far as quantum events as random as I understand it they nevertheless occur within a defined probability function. (Arguably they are just the probability function.) And that probability function is normally explicable in prior conditions.
quote:Originally posted by Dafyd:The argument as stated in the wikipedia article seems inferior to me in comparison to the less modern versions.As other people have said it depends a lot on the notion of beginning. I think that's problematic and unnecessary in this context. It also depends on the idea of the universe being a single thing that has a beginning. Again, that's not something that, say, Aquinas' version requires.
quote:Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Dafyd:[qb]The thing is, it breaks the deterministic nature of the universe. You can have a universe in which an event happens, and another one in which it doesn't, without there being any actual difference in the starting state - because probabilities only really work out over the larger numbers.
quote:Originally posted by Martin60:Why is it that only rationally apprehendable things can happen? Or is that just the risible anthropic principle?
quote:Originally posted by Martin60: We'd know that there is no God.
quote:Originally posted by Martin60:And I don't take kindly to any hint of intellectualism
quote:.. that God could only be real if you can do the math. As bad as if you could only do the math, then you'd see that God isn't real.