Thread: AS: Expressing solidarity with gay shipmates Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Mark Wuntoo (# 5673) on :
 
Am I alone in wanting to express solidarity with our gay shipmates? I have suddenly gone from extreme anger to near tears: having already decided not to respond to any more posts that I find provocative, the latest few are depressing in the extreme - for me, let alone to gay Christians, I suppose.

Some gay shipmates may find this patronising - apologies, if so. Some shipmates appear to me to have been hurt simply because of who they are and to these I simply say 'Peace / Shalom'.



[ 29. March 2010, 21:23: Message edited by: Campbellite ]
 

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Posted by amber. (# 11142) on :
 
Prayers for all of us who are a bit at the moment, yes.
 

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Posted by Alicïa (# 7668) on :
 
I lurk often and post seldom these days, so I can't say I decide not to post on a given subject as my posting is so infrequent anyway, but sometimes I am astounded by the judgemental and provocative nature from so called Christians. There was a time when I would have got involved instead of lurking on the sidelines and feeling sadness but not expressing it.

Recently some of the posts I have read, with regards to the issue of gay Christian shipmates have been so uncharitable and depressing, so yes.

I'm with you there, and with all of you in my thoughts of and prayers if you need them.



[ 04. January 2010, 10:34: Message edited by: Alicïa ]
 

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Posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis (# 3886) on :
 
for my gay shipmates and friends, and especially those who face such bitterness IRL where they cannot simply 'not click on those threads' to avoid it.
for the whole Church of Christ, that we may learn to love one another.
 

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Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :
 
Mark: No, you're not being patronizing. This gay Shipmate and her partner (with whom I share some of the more outlandish, as well as the more supportive, comments made here) thank you for your kindness and support.

My denomination is currently going through a maelstrom over its recent decision to officially accept partnered gay people into the ordained ministry. Sometimes I read the hateful comments on the ELCA Facebook page and just start crying. Here the ecumenical nature of the discussion tends to diffuse that anger and frustration somewhat -- sort of like the distant relation being difficult instead of one's immediate family -- but it's still often incredibly jarring to see the overt contempt with which some of my sisters and brothers in Christ hold me. So it's a relief to read posts like yours; it really is.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Thanks Mark, I don't find it at all patronising; I think prayerful support is always welcome.
 

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Posted by Paddy O'Furniture (# 12953) on :
 
Awww, Mark: You make me feel all cuddly-wuddly inside! Thanks! I've got issues with low blood pressure rather than high blood pressure so maybe I'll venture over and read the posts from the scary homophobes. Then again, do I need any more stress in my life?!

Dumb question. ISTM that mad waves of virulent homophobia seems to come in waves every once in a while, then it sort of quiets down for a while until the next wave appears. Sigh. I notice that happening with the anti-immigrant crap in America, most specifically Georgia, since that's where I live now. And it's always "those people" who are evil: The gays, the Mexicans, the Blacks, those dreadful pagans, those left-handed Godless Communists...

Anyway, thanks for your solidarity.
 

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Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
Prayerful support is indeed always welcome.

One of the most sadenning things for me is to discover how thick-skinned and cynical I've become in 47 years of being a poof for Jesus. These days when I encounter opposition, I drop the rational argument and remind my interlocutor how silly they'd feel in the A&E department having to have a size 9 strappy sandal surgically removed from where the sun don't shine.
 

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Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
I clicked "reply" with a head full of things to say and they one by one hung their heads and slunk away, leaving me only with this writing in the dust and this guy Jesus.

I can only wish God's love to all, gay and straight and in-between, and an apology for anything I have done that made your life(ves) harder.
 

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Posted by ErinBear (# 13173) on :
 
I, too, remember our LGBT brothers and sisters in prayer. I believe so firmly that God's love is for all people. All people.

Blessings,
ErinBear
 

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Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on :
 
Not patronising at all - thanks very much in fact!
 

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Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on :
 
Can I join in...
I struggle a bit sometimes as a parent and wonder how best to smooth the way, without creating a problem or issue that doesn't need to exist.

This generation has blurred all the boundaries, and it's hard work to create a new set of norms to live by.
 

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Posted by Matariki (# 14380) on :
 
Mark, Thank you very much. Care, prayer and loving kindness are never patronising. Yyour words are much appreciated.
 

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Posted by Margaret (# 283) on :
 
Someone I loved a lot died just before Christmas; he was in his eighties, and gay and a Christian at a time when it was even harder than it is now. He gave up going to church a long time ago, and I'd assumed it was because of church politics (we both left that church for the same reason, but I eventually found another one and he didn't). Since he died it's struck me that he might have feared rejection in a new church because he was gay.

He remained a Christian all his life (he told me once he prayed every day) but never again contributed his kindness and generosity and wisdom to a church community. We all lose out if we drive away our brothers and sisters.
 

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Posted by Nicolemrw (# 28) on :
 
I think that some of the nicest, best people here are the gay ones, and they certainly have all the support I can give them! Love you all, guys!
 

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Posted by amber. (# 11142) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Taliesin:
Can I join in...
I struggle a bit sometimes as a parent and wonder how best to smooth the way, without creating a problem or issue that doesn't need to exist.

This generation has blurred all the boundaries, and it's hard work to create a new set of norms to live by.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rosa Gallica officinalis:
for my gay shipmates and friends, and especially those who face such bitterness IRL where they cannot simply 'not click on those threads' to avoid it.
for the whole Church of Christ, that we may learn to love one another.

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Beautifully put
 

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Posted by Angloid (# 159) on :
 
I'd run out of candles if I lit one for every gay person who has helped me on my Christian journey. But a few more anyway:
 

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Posted by neandergirl (# 8916) on :
 
Echoing RGo, MT, and EB.

May we one day (fingers crossed, very soon) learn to live 'Love God' and 'Love one another'.
 

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Posted by CJ (# 2166) on :
 

Thank you for thinking of this thread. I've just spent Christmas with my friend, who is a gay CofE priest and am still angry and sad at the depth of his hurt at the hands of the church.

For all who persist faithfully in churches who harangue, ignore and reject those they should celebrate, cherish and be thankful for

 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I am another person who would like to express solidarity.

We have some amazing gay people in the church and we would be so much poorer spiritually if we didn't value them for their insights and understandings. The scandal of choosing to judge, when we're told not to and to look at the speck in others' eyes to see that one fault and fail to look at our own logs of failings is failing to be Christian.

[ 04. January 2010, 19:19: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
 

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Posted by leo (# 1458) on :
 
Me too.
 

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Posted by Yangtze (# 4965) on :
 
And me

quote:

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Originally posted by Margaret:
He remained a Christian all his life (he told me once he prayed every day) but never again contributed his kindness and generosity and wisdom to a church community. We all lose out if we drive away our brothers and sisters.

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And this really moved me. I wonder how many people (not just those who are gay) there are that we have missed out on because they feel (or indeed are) rejected by church.

[ 04. January 2010, 19:35: Message edited by: Yangtze ]
 

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Posted by QLib (# 43) on :
 
The homophobia of some Christians makes me ashamed, whereas many gay Christians are inspiring.

 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
If I was sick, I saw my friends visiting me.

If I am in health, my friends rejoice with me.

When they are sick, I visit them.

When they are well, I rejoice with them.

Except I don't notice the "gay" bit. They are friends. God made them as surely as he made me.
 

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Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Yangtze:
And me

quote:

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Originally posted by Margaret:
He remained a Christian all his life (he told me once he prayed every day) but never again contributed his kindness and generosity and wisdom to a church community. We all lose out if we drive away our brothers and sisters.

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And this really moved me. I wonder how many people (not just those who are gay) there are that we have missed out on because they feel (or indeed are) rejected by church.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mark Wuntoo:
I have suddenly gone from extreme anger to near tears: having already decided not to respond to any more posts that I find provocative, the latest few are depressing in the extreme - for me, let alone to gay Christians, I suppose.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mousethief:
I clicked "reply" with a head full of things to say and they one by one hung their heads and slunk away, leaving me only with this writing in the dust and this guy Jesus.

I can only wish God's love to all, gay and straight and in-between, and an apology for anything I have done that made your life(ves) harder.

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Me, too.


 

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Posted by St Everild (# 3626) on :
 
What I wanted to say has all been said, really...

Edited to add - but I still wanted to say it.

[ 04. January 2010, 21:10: Message edited by: St Everild ]
 

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Posted by Athrawes (# 9594) on :
 
No one should have to put up with the bile and vitriol that has been heaped on GLBT shipmates recently. Sexual orientation should not be used to decide whether someone is a human being and worthy of respect and, let's be honest, common courtesy.
 

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Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :
 
I suppose that God loves homophobes despite their homophobia, but I admit that I find them considerably less likeable than gays.

I think this is a valid extension of Gal 3:28 and in its spirit for this situation.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, there is neither gay nor straight – for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.

[ 04. January 2010, 22:59: Message edited by: Latchkey Kid ]
 

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Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on :
 
Blowing the dust off my pink triangle lapel pin... which is gathering dust because I, naive as hell, didn't think it needed to be worn anymore. I thought those questions were settled and we had all moved on. (I have had the luxury of thinking that.) Apparently I was wrong.

Sorry for my complacency.
 

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Posted by Cottontail (# 12234) on :
 
I've been reading these threads with growing horror. I'm so sorry that some shipmates have had to deal with this crap yet again.

And I weep for my dear friend, a better Christian by far than me, who, as she puts it, is simply 'fed up with being an abomination'.


 

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Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on :
 
Thanks Mark and others.

These discussions always wear me down and lead me to question why I am here (both on SoF and in the church) but then a warm hug makes all the difference. Besides, I have tried to give up my faith and God drags me back.

Thanks again all.
 

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Posted by Louise (# 30) on :
 
What Tony said. I'm so sorry that people have had to put up with so much abuse.



L.
 

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Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :
 
Another way to express solidarity might be to join PFLAG, or to support Straight for Equality and to take their pledge.

I have.
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 
I wish I could come up with something half as eloquent as the things that have been said here. I do know that I can't bear to imagine my EfM groups, my parish, my diocese, and indeed, *this* community, without the presence, witness, and ministry of its gay members.
 

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Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
I was reluctant to say anything on this thread, as I did not want to appear to be patronising, or indeed isolating our gay* shipmates. But the headline in today's paper, to the effect that a visit by 3 "evangelicals" to Uganda has strengthened the resolve of the government there to impose the death penalty for some homosexual offences, demands that we all express our appreciation of and suport for gay shipmates, gay fellow parishioners and gays generally in our society. In addition, we should publicise our horror that such legislation could be contemplated.

* "gay" includes the entire GLBTQ range of expression.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Cottontail:
I've been reading these threads with growing horror. I'm so sorry that some shipmates have had to deal with this crap yet again.

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I'm finding it hard to put my feelings into words, so I hope you don't mind if I borrow yours Cottontail.

Also for those more eloquent than I who have hung in there, refuting ignorance and hatred.

Huia
 

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Posted by amber. (# 11142) on :
 
Adding my own small for those facing "correctional rape" and death in some countries
 

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Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
If I was sick, I saw my friends visiting me.

If I am in health, my friends rejoice with me.

When they are sick, I visit them.

When they are well, I rejoice with them.

Except I don't notice the "gay" bit. They are friends. God made them as surely as he made me.

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Posted by Tractor Girl (# 8863) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
If I was sick, I saw my friends visiting me.

If I am in health, my friends rejoice with me.

When they are sick, I visit them.

When they are well, I rejoice with them.

Except I don't notice the "gay" bit. They are friends. God made them as surely as he made me.

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Another thanks to those have posted affirming LGBT people from a non-hetro shipmate.

I want to for those who have been putting the otherside of the argument forward aswell though. Pete's "friends" comment applies to them too. Just as my friends don't look at me in terms of my sexuality I don't look at them in terms of every opinion and biblical interpretation they hold.

Yes people say things that I and others find deeply hurtful, but there needs to be a space for this stuff to be said and debate to be held, (even if it does get circular).
 

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Posted by Dal Segno (# 14673) on :
 


[ETA: I cannot think of anything to add to what has been said but wanted to express support]

[ 05. January 2010, 08:59: Message edited by: Dal Segno ]
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I'd like to add my best wishes to this list.
 

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Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
I still have to put up with BMS on the Fulcrum forums

I hope I've attempted (in my own ham-fisted way) to voice my own objections to the lunacy that broke out. Apologies to my brothers and sisters for any sin of commission or omission.
 

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Posted by Dormouse (# 5954) on :
 
Everyone else is more able to say what I want to say better than me, but I add a for everyone who needs it...
 

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Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :
 
I'm sorry that I haven't dived into the fray in the recent turmoil, but I know myself, and I'd have likely wound up with a hostly warning because I get so pissed off at such crap.

But "Solidarity!"
 

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Posted by Mark Wuntoo (# 5673) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
If I was sick, I saw my friends visiting me.

If I am in health, my friends rejoice with me.

When they are sick, I visit them.

When they are well, I rejoice with them.

Except I don't notice the "gay" bit. They are friends. God made them as surely as he made me.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Athrawes:
No one should have to put up with the bile and vitriol that has been heaped on GLBT shipmates recently. Sexual orientation should not be used to decide whether someone is a human being and worthy of respect and, let's be honest, common courtesy.

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Absolutely agreed: the debating of issues on the boards is one thing, but what has gone on recently has been far more damaging to fellow human beings and fellow Christians.
 

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Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :
 
Expressing solidarity here

I am forever grateful for the witness and perseverence of the gay members of my church despite the hierachy's condemnation.
 

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Posted by Adrienne (# 2334) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Dormouse:
Everyone else is more able to say what I want to say better than me, but I add a for everyone who needs it...

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Exactly how I feel too, adding my own

A
 

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Posted by Earwig (# 12057) on :
 
Indeed.
 

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Posted by Spike (# 36) on :
 
I think we all know why this thread was started, but could I ask shipmates to refrain from naming names.

Thanks

Spike
AS Host
 

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Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 

 

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Posted by iGeek (# 777) on :
 
I'm fortunate that I'm part of a loving and affirming faith community here in Gulfopolis that reminds me week in and week out the depth and breadth of God's mercy and love for all of His children.

I also have the privilege of having met many of you IRL and have shared a laugh, a pint, perhaps a tear or two and certainly affection and love. You are Christ to me when all around there are examples of people who apparently haven't a clue what that means. That can be discouraging, but I also know better through concrete examples.

Thanks for that. Thanks to MW and all of you who've made your viewpoint known. It helps.
 

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Posted by Auntie Doris (# 9433) on :
 
We live to serve iGeek

Auntie Doris x
 

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Posted by Otter (# 12020) on :
 
I keep waffling around if I want to step farther away from the closet door, as I get to feeling guilty that because I'm in a heterosexual marriage that I'm pretty much an invisible B in the LGBT. The support on this thread is wonderful and encouraging!
 

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Posted by amber. (# 11142) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Otter:
I keep waffling around if I want to step farther away from the closet door, as I get to feeling guilty that because I'm in a heterosexual marriage that I'm pretty much an invisible B in the LGBT. The support on this thread is wonderful and encouraging!

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You're not an invisible B! Or if you are, we both are, I guess?
 

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Posted by SpruceMoose (# 15390) on :
 
Haven't posted before but wanted to say thanks for this thread Mark and thanks everyone who's added to it.

Reading the vitriol that gets posted online (here and elsewhere) can really get me down so personally I'm touched and encouraged by your support and don't find it the least bit patronising

Adding my thoughts and prayers too
 

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Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on :
 
I understand that Havenites are requested to phone home, LTRU.
 

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Posted by Melangell (# 4023) on :
 

 

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Posted by LibCath2000 (# 15363) on :
 
"Blessed are those who are persecuted ... for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."



LC2K
 

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Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Cannot express any better than what has been written so far, so
 

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Posted by Late Quartet (# 1207) on :
 
Solidarity
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Love and ((()))s to everyone on the thread.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Qoheleth.:
I understand that Havenites are requested to phone home, LTRU.

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[aside]Can a Havenite send me a link, please, as I lost mine in a hard drive crash.

Thanks.[/aside]
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
Without actually immersing myself in Dead Horses... I've hardly ever been there...

Does it seem as if the folks who don't hold with homosexuality are scared to be civil and act rationally in a debate/discussion, for fear they will be misunderstood? Do they think a little normal human respect will be misread as "Heck yeah, I approve! Rampant same-sex luuurve for all! Run about nekkid and have sex with turnips, for all I care!"?

Surely, there's some sort of happy medium for them, between the rampant turnip thing and "the guillotine and Hellfire for anything beyond male/female missionary position!"

*Sigh*
 

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Posted by LutheranChik (# 9826) on :
 
Also needing a link to "pbone home" to the Havens...I was on such a hiatus from the Ship that I think I was dropped off the list.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I grew up in a church where several families left because we changed hymnals. Having this background, I am completely humbled by those friends of mine who, out of their love for God and their fellow parishioners, endure in churches where they are bound to be told on a regular basis that they are sub par members.

Whatever your position is on the matter, I think it is unwise not to ask people with that kind of devotion, "What keeps you here?"
 

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Posted by Remainderman (# 13532) on :
 
In solidarity
 

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Posted by Flausa (# 3466) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by iGeek:
You are Christ to me when all around there are examples of people who apparently haven't a clue what that means.

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As you have been to me, and I suspect, to many others as well.
 

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Posted by Matariki (# 14380) on :
 
Just a quick prayer of love and care for all of you out there; for the GLBTQ flock and our many many friends who ae straight but not narrow!
Surely the test of any faith is its ability to nurture hope, compassion and loving kindness?
If you agree, pat yourelf on the back and give yourself an A+.

 

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Posted by Figbash (# 9048) on :
 
Everything that I could say has been said, and probably with less intemperate language that I would have used. So I will just say that I too wish to express my solidarity: Christianity is meant to be a religion of love and inclusion, Christ himself sought out the excluded, so let us pray that in at least some part of the Church you are included.
 

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Posted by Joan_of_Quark (# 9887) on :
 
+1
 

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Posted by PurpleDaisy (# 4290) on :
 
My thoughts and prayers are with all gay shipmates who have had to put up with persecution and ignorant bigotry, both on these boards and elsewhere in their lives. The patience and strength you show is truly inspiring.

Warm hugs and prayers to all
 

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Posted by Panda (# 2951) on :
 

 

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Posted by the famous rachel (# 1258) on :
 

 

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Posted by The Weeder (# 11321) on :
 
Jesus healed the Centurions 'servant'. How can people who claim to follow Him be so condemning?

for all who are hurt and angry
 

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Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :
 
Solidarity can come from surprising quarters. 18 months or so ago, the Rector of Bellevue Hill made a savage attack on an openly gay High Court Justice. At morning tea after our 10 am service, the attack was roundly condemned. The strongest supporters of Kirby J were not the young and perhaps more liberal; they were the older parishioners, raised and living on properties in the country until the time came to retire from the land, or those from supposedly conservative professions. They were outraged that a person’s sexual preferences should be the concern of the church. Not surprisingly, the same Rector had condemned chocolate wheels at church fetes as being a form of gambling!

By the way, I don’t understand Spike’s post.
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
I don't either, specifically, but as I understand in general it has to do with a handful of Shippies who Acted Up.

And not the gay ones.
 

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Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Flausa:

quote:

---

Originally posted by iGeek:
You are Christ to me when all around there are examples of people who apparently haven't a clue what that means.

---

As you have been to me, and I suspect, to many others as well.

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This.
 

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Posted by mrs whibley (# 4798) on :
 
Amen
 

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Posted by Ferdzy (# 8702) on :
 

 

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Posted by Carys (# 78) on :
 
As a novice of the third order of St Francis, I am pledged to:

quote:

---

spread the spirit of love and harmony

The Order sets out, in the name of Christ, to break down barriers between people and to seek equality for all. We accept as our second aim the spreading of a spirit of love and harmony among all people. We are pledged to fight against the ignorance, pride, and prejudice that breed injustice or partiality of any kind.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Janine:
I don't either, specifically, but as I understand in general it has to do with a handful of Shippies who Acted Up.

And not the gay ones.

---

Got it in one!
 

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Posted by East Price Road (# 13846) on :
 
In solidarity
 

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Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 
Another "Straight but not narrow" standing with all our brothers and sisters.
 

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Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on :
 
If this thread is typical of All Saints maybe I should come here more often. It makes a refreshing change from the vitriol that has been expressed in some quarters recently - thank you.
 

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Posted by urbanbumpkin (# 13505) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by amber.:

quote:

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Originally posted by Otter:
I keep waffling around if I want to step farther away from the closet door, as I get to feeling guilty that because I'm in a heterosexual marriage that I'm pretty much an invisible B in the LGBT. The support on this thread is wonderful and encouraging!

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You're not an invisible B! Or if you are, we both are, I guess?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by urbanbumpkin:

quote:

---

Originally posted by amber.:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Otter:
I keep waffling around if I want to step farther away from the closet door, as I get to feeling guilty that because I'm in a heterosexual marriage that I'm pretty much an invisible B in the LGBT. The support on this thread is wonderful and encouraging!

---

You're not an invisible B! Or if you are, we both are, I guess?

---

And another one, or at least one who's engaged to be in a hetrosexual marriage. So that's three of us - can't be too invisible! Actually, just wanted to thank you both for being open enough to share that - it's really encouraged me as I was feeling a little - misfitting I guess!

And thanks so much to everyone on this post - thanks for being Christ in a world where people are far too often excluded.

---

 

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Posted by Campbellite (# 1202) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Robert Armin:
If this thread is typical of All Saints maybe I should come here more often. It makes a refreshing change from the vitriol that has been expressed in some quarters recently - thank you.

---

That's why this is called All Saints. You are welcome anytime, Robert.
 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
We're far from perfect in All Saints.

But, the bumpiness tends to be like that of the beloved "tetched" Auntie who lives in the attic apartment. I may still cut an interpersonal backflip sometimes, but I'm your Auntie and you love me.

Like that.

Y'all please let me know when it's my turn to rule the world -- I'll implement my Disagree Without Knifing Each Other Plan.
 

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Posted by Hilda of Whitby (# 7341) on :
 


Love and support to our LGBT family members.
 

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Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
I met my first Out gays back in the early '70s (though there were some suspicious sorts before then).

Ever since, I've simply never understood what the big deal was. Some were arty-farty types (just like my hetero arty-farty friends), some were plodding scientific suburban sorts.

Later I discovered the crazy urban subcultures, but again, taken one by one, they were simply various sorts of friends.

To be honest, I was much more surprised to discover that the seemingly boring parents of my childrens' friends during elementary school turned out to be sexual swingers. But having discovered this, I never felt any post-angst that I might have done wrong by letting my kids visit there regularly. As far as I know, the only thing they did to corrupt my kids was allowing them lots of time to play Mario Brothers.
 

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Posted by jlg (# 98) on :
 
Posting this separately because I just want to say how much it means to me to have known a couple of gay shipmates and been informed of their marriages. While I wasn't able to be there, I still find myself tearing up a bit, just as I do at any marriage where I care about the person(s) involved.
 

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Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by LibCath2000:
"Blessed are those who are persecuted ... for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."



LC2K

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Amen

Tubbs

[duplicate post deleted]

[ 11. January 2010, 21:26: Message edited by: Campbellite ]
 

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Posted by Aelred of Riveaux (# 12833) on :
 

 

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Posted by Janine (# 3337) on :
 
I sort of quoted he-who-was-once-Gort in church today.

During a Bible discussion about reaching out to the community, the Football God brought up how we as a local community of Christians had better act/react, when we have someone who is obviously very different join us for worship and fellowship.

(So far as we know) everyone in our local group is straight, nobody cross-dresses, nothing but mainstreamers here. So FG says, in his point about someone wildly different, "We'd better be prepared to see a man in a dress walk in here."

There of course followed much poking of fun and nominations of which of the men present was going to don some organdy and fishnets so we'd have a chance to practice. Daughter Amazon-Valkyrie mentioned FG's college win of the "Best Legs" contest...

Anyway, as conversation continued over snacks, I remembered what Gort had said and paraphrased him in my own way: "Just out of common courtesy, I don't care if you need to carry your male parts around in a wheelbarrow, if you want me to call you Sheila, that's your name. We can talk later, after we're friends, if I think the Lord has some word for you about it."

Why would Sheila care what I had to say about anything, much less Bible and size-twelve dancing pumps, if Sheila doesn't know I love him? Um, her?
 

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Posted by Hebdom (# 14685) on :
 

 

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Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on :
 
And a from me too.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Haven't been in All Saints much lately so hadn't noticed this thread, but reading it has reduced me to tears (I'm probably just all emotional because I'm preg...)

There are so many LGB people who I owe so much to, for spiritual support, for friendship, for affection without an agenda. That includes some amazing priests, and some wonderful shipmates.
 

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Posted by Otter (# 12020) on :
 

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Originally posted by urbanbumpkin:
And another one, or at least one who's engaged to be in a hetrosexual marriage. So that's three of us - can't be too invisible! Actually, just wanted to thank you both for being open enough to share that - it's really encouraged me as I was feeling a little - misfitting I guess!

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Glad to know it helps! And yay for being engaged!
 

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Posted by Boopy (# 4738) on :
 
I value my friends enormously including those who happen to be gay. I hate it when I see them being so hurt by the church. Hurting one part of the body of Christ hurts all of us it seems to me. I hope our LGBT shipmates know how loved and valued they are here.
 

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Posted by iGeek (# 777) on :
 
I was in Nashville last weekend at the annual conference of Gay Christian Network. 364 folks (LGBT* and straight) turned up to fellowship, support and love one another.

Tony Campolo spoke. Derek Webb sang and an executive director of a former Exodus affiliate in Canada spoke about bridge building and fostering "spacious places" within evangelicaldom.

What stuck with me was a word from a straight, punk pastor of an emergent church in Detroit who got up and encouraged us to not fight the church or hate the church but rather to *be* the church.

The breezes of change are starting to blow.

Bless you all.
 

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