Thread: Circus: Mafia - the Valley of the Kings Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
It’s been too long… With the permission of our august and benevolent Circus hosts, welcome to a new mafia game.

For those unfamiliar with the game (or the particular way we play it here on the Ship) there are a couple of old games archived in Limbo. If I do say so myself, this one features me wiping out a whole town Looking at previous games will also acquaint you with some of the Ship’s regular players, which could be handy. You can also look at the Wikipedia page for Mafia (game). This is my first attempt at moderating, so I’m not planning anything too complicated (although there may a couple of little twists to keep myself entertained )

I’ll leave sign-up open until the end of the week and come back with detailed rules when it gets to that. Please make sure you are going to have regular internet access for the duration otherwise these games tend to drag on interminably. Realistically I think you’ll need to be able to get on-line at least every 24 hours or so.

So off we go for another round of murder and conspiracy Are you sitting comfortably? Then I’ll begin…

______________________

Camp Sarastro is blistering under the heat of the Egyptian sun. The mercury is about to hit 38°.

But the camp’s leader, Lord Archibald Whisker, doesn’t even notice the sweltering heat. He’s almost giddy with excitement. A mere 18 hours ago, all his long years of searching finally paid off. No matter how impossible it seemed, no matter how many times he was told to forget about it, he’d always known that it had to be there. And now at last he’s proved them all wrong and found it – the long-lost and unopened tomb of Pharaoh Senkhet III himself.

As Whisker walked inside the entrance yesterday and read the hieroglyphs by the flickering light of his torch, he knew he’d been born for this moment. He first read the story of Senkhet as a small boy, and with the passing years it has become an obsession. The search has cost him thousands of pounds, and eventually caused his friends and acquaintances to question his sanity, but he never doubted that it had to be true.

They haven’t got very far inside yet, but he’s sure that they’re going to find treasures on a scale never before seen in the history of Egyptology. The young king Senkhet was said to be rich beyond imagining, and was buried in a manner befitting one called a son of the gods. They’ve pulled out a few artefacts already and they are magnificent – gold cups and small pieces of jewellery sparkling with gems that are still bright millennia after they were hidden away. The hieroglyphs seem as bright as the day when they were painted. No one will ever forget Archibald Whisker or his unprecedented discovery.

One thing is gnawing away at him, nonetheless. Whisker is of course familiar with the curse that was placed on Senkhet’s tomb when it was sealed, which he has never been quite able to dismiss as a legend. After all, wasn’t Senkhet himself supposed to be a legend? Considering the dazzling riches that he knew to be contained there, he had decided it was a risk worth taking, but in the last couple of days, he’s been given pause. A line broke yesterday, breaking the arm of one of the Egyptian workers, and another found a snake in his bag. A couple of days earlier, one of the Europeans was unwell with a fever and vomiting. The doctor said that he’d eaten something that disagreed with him, but Whisker is secretly disquieted. He pushes it out of his mind and thinks back to the untold riches that await him underground.
_________________________

Archeologists, local workers and hangers-on of all descriptions are all welcome at Camp Sarastro. Don’t forget your sun-hats.

[ 03. May 2011, 13:35: Message edited by: Chorister ]
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Haji was unsure what to think about this foreigner, Whisker's, excavation. He spent a restless Thursday night tossing and turning, unsure of what to preach to his flock at Friday prayers the next day. As their Imam, he knew they'd be looking to him for leadership

On the one hand, he was pleased that more jobs would be available in this area. And, of course, he didn't believe in all of this curse mumbo jumbo. But he did worry that other people would and this would distract them from true religion. We shouldn't be reminding people of Egypt's pagan past, but concentrating on our Islamic future.

[ 10. October 2010, 16:33: Message edited by: Hart ]
 

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Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
Andrew was Lord Archibald Whisker's son. His father initiated him in egyptology in his early childhood, and he loved the ancient way. In fact, he was a believer in the old gods, but he kept his faith secret. Not even his father knew about his son's religious practices.

The wealth left him cold. It was all about the ancient artifacts. In that tomb, there were relics of unimaginable importance, religious objects of immense power. The ancients have dwelled into the mysteries of the after life, and their gods, the true gods, were more powerful than anything else in the world. Andrew felt it was time for the old religion to be revived, and the other members of his sect agreed with him.
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
I'm in.

I usually like to see what my character is hiding before choosing a public persona, but if vie would prefer us to give names and backgrounds now then I will.
 

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Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
Papagena was small and black. Her ancestors had wandered around the tombs for centuries, in and out unnoticed among both the silent ones and the noisy camps. Mostly Papagena watched. Occasionally her tail would twitch back and forth as she thought.
 

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Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
Oh no—Eliab's playing again? We're all doomed.

Lieutenant Owain D. R. Madoc, 24th Regiment of Foot hung his heavy wool coat on a tent pole (who's brilliant idea was it to issue coats to soldiers in a desert?) and set to work cleaning and polishing his rifle. Again.
Quite honestly, he wasn't sure what exactly he and his men were supposed to be doing in this Godforsaken desert (something about "looking for Frenchmen" was what he'd heard from Major Davies, but, as far as he was concerned, the bloody frogs could have this awful Hellhole to themselves), but, if they were here, they might as well be civilized. Plus, all that gold Lord Whasisname kept talking about wasn't going to guard itself, now was it?
 

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Posted by Herrick (# 15226) on :
 
Professor Craig Champion, world renowned expert in Egyptology, hieroglyphics and the Royal Dynasties of Egypt. Craig poured himself a small sherry before sitting at his desk in Oxford and picking up the scarab headed letter opener to open the latest correspondence from his source in north Africa.
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
I'm in.
Name and details to follow.
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
(Can we have an indication of what year this is?)
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
When would you like it to be ?

I'm thinking first half of the twentieth century, but hadn't really got it much more detailed than that.
 

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Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Mr Seth wrapped his head lightly in the linen and turned to face the the sand laden wind. Despite the dry air and blistering conditions, he knew he was on to a winner. Mechanical help out here was of little use to anyone on a dig. The sand destroyed everything when the wind got up. Mr Seth knew his camels would come in handy sooner or later and it was only a matter of waiting and negotiating a price.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I'm in, I think. Character to follow...
 

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Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
Tavish McCallum rubbed the remainder of the evening's meal from his ginger moustache.
He couldn't remember explicitly agreeing to help Whisker out on his expedition, nor the terms of his "employment", but if you choose to conduct business whilst in the Vale of Tranquility then that's your own silly fault, which ever side of the table you were on (or under) at the time.

Besides, Tavish's dad had been a long time pal of Archie's father, Major General Bertram Whisker when they served in the Army. (Tavish smiled at remembering his dad's nickname for the Major - "saved-by-a" - following his ability to narrowly cheat death, helped in no small part by the quick thinking of his right hand man, old man McCallum).

The heat and the sun wasn't helping his fair complexion - you never got weather like this back in Auchenshoogle - and the local brew wasn't on a par with his usual tipple at the old Hog's Oxters, but if there was gold to be had in helping the memory of his old man be continued, doing a family friend a favour, he could put up with that for the time being.

[ 12. October 2010, 13:05: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
 

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Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Oh no—Eliab's playing again? We're all doomed.

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depends if you're on Eliab's side or not
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Wet Kipper:

quote:

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Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Oh no—Eliab's playing again? We're all doomed.

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depends if you're on Eliab's side or not

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You also have to factor in that his nemesis (ie me) isn't playing this time

(the scores are currently at one each - I have caught him once, and he has murdered me once)

OTOH, a Shiply mafia game just isn't the same without Eliab Eliabssen and I for one am glad he's in.

Currently we have nine players, ten if Imaginary Friend decides to join:

Hart
El Greco
CuppaT
Ariston Astuanax
Herrick
Dafyd
Eliab
fletcher christian
Wet Kipper
(Imaginary Friend)

I think Camp Sarastro could do with a few more women - don't be shy ladies! (although extra male players are obviously welcome as well)
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I could play a lady, if that helps.
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Lady Bernadine Haighton-Chatworthy is in!
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Rose Autenrieth settled her sunhat a little more firmly. The best part of her graduate program in archaeology was coming on these digs. Who knew what might be discovered?
 

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Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Arsène Beauregard leant back in his armchair in the shade of his tentscreen, careful not to dishevel his long black hair, stroking his moustache complacently. A gentle sigh of pleasure greeted the glass of lemonade Ahmed had brought him as he watched the group assembled at a small distance. Life in the desert had become rather lively of late. The arrival of these étrangers brought a pleasant kind of buzz to the dunes. But, goodness, how uncultivated they were! One of them even did his rifle-cleaning in public and broad daylight! And how superstitious they all were, delightful!

Secure in the knowledge that his great-grandfather had once landed in these parts with the général! and due to the fact that Arsène himself had settled here a few years ago he felt entitled to a first-comer's extra-dose of Gallic arrogance towards these Eengleesh.

Still, curiosity and a longing for European food had made him get involved with this funny bunch of grave-diggers. About his other motives he was determined to keep silent a bit longer ...

PS:
I should like to join but from tomorrow until 15 Oct I can probably only get online a bit irregularly. After that I am fine. If that is too big a problem Arsène shall have to withdraw.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
I'm happy to do my best to help Arsène play the game. I'm planning to distribute roles this weekend - let me know (by PM) if you Arsène needs me to proxy vote for him at any point.

rouge x

(got in a muddle about who's whose proxy )

[ 13. October 2010, 13:26: Message edited by: la vie en rouge ]
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
(the scores are currently at one each - I have caught him once, and he has murdered me once)

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(I'd score it one-nil in your favour. It being a team game, and only the team result counting for anything, the one concluded game between us was won by you.

I was quite pleased with the way I played both games, because the tactical aim of identifying and eliminating most or all of the town's ‘specials' was achieved, but that means nothing unless it's converted into a team victory."
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
A suggestion to make before we start (and before I know whether I benefit from it): don't give the town too many specials. It's possible (and IMAO, more satisfying) for the town to win by deduction rather than investigation, and I think it's a better game if the town is under time pressure to guess right, rather than expecting their detectives to solve everything.
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Lady Bernardine Haighton-Chatsworthy leaned back on the camel, making her formidable stays creak alarmingly. It may be hot, but the elegantly tailored ladies safari jacket would simply not look proper without the right foundations underneath it. She adjusted the net veil which swathed her pith helmet and with her riding crop tapped the shoulder of the camelteer beside her impatiently.

"I am very keen to get going you know. Why on earth is everyone taking so long to get ready?"

Lady Bernardine, knowing that some on this expedition might think her a hindrance, had been up since the crack of dawn. She was more than ready, because she had been commandeering people to do all kinds of things on her behalf for the last two hours. She had no notion whatever that this might not be taken well in some quarters. After all, she was the money.

It was her bankroll that was underwriting the expedition, and she was coming along to make sure that everything went according to plan as much as possible. She was absolutely determined that her guineas, and any artefacts found, were not going to 'disappear' through the hands of shady dealings. This was her bounden duty and she was going to see it through to its right conclusion.

She tapped the camelteer on the shoulder again. "Well?"
 

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Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Thanks, l.i.r.
I'll do my best to log on whenever I can, as I am moving from town to town until mid-week it will depend on the infrastructure of French and Breton internet cafés.
Will let you know if vote by proxy is required.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Bernadine needs to be patient a little bit longer, but we'll be starting soon. I'm going to hand out roles this Saturday afternoon my time (GMT+2). Feel free to explore the desert in the meantime tho.

So far we have unlucky 13 players:

Hart
El Greco
CuppaT
Ariston Astuanax
Herrick
Dafyd
Eliab
fletcher christian
Wet Kipper
Imaginary Friend
Banner Lady
Autenrieth Road
Sylvander

Any more for any more?
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Sergeant Dai Mortal, discharged, sat in the bar with a whisky wondering how to persuade the barman to let him have another. He was of course perfectly sober. It wasn't even lunchtime yet.
He wished he was back home. He wished it would rain.
The news of the tomb filled him with dread and foreboding. Nothing good came of opening tombs. Only spiders and noises in the night and tentacles...
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
The photo opportunity on the camel now being over, Lady Bernardine descended down the steps Seth had so obligingly placed next to the beast. It was still complaining loudly as she paid for the plate and arranged for copies of the photo to be sent back to all her friends in the Society of the Eastern Star in England. She hoped the photographer was trustworthy. One simply never knew with these foreign types, so she hinted at arranging much more business for him as the dig progressed.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I'm refusing to play because in the last two games I was deprived of any active participation after a miniscule amount of elapsed time!
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I've just had a good idea for a character, but I don't have time to write it up right now. Will tomorrow be okay?
 

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Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
"Well, Lieutenent, in order to do that, we'd need more rations shipped from Britain."
"All I want, sir, is for my men to have enough to live off of. Is that really such an unreasonable request?"
"We're in the middle of a desert, Mr. Madoc. When have you seen any food that we didn't have shipped in ourselves?"

Owain dearly wanted to tell Captain Davies that the souk really wasn't that far away, and was usually full of food, but that would probably get him a good lecture on "what is fit food for an Englishman." Lieutenent Madoc had received several such lectures from his superior officer, which were all the more infuriating coming from the only Englishman in the company.

"No, no sir. I have not seen any such thing."

Well, it wasn't much of a lie. Truth be told, he hadn't seen much food that had been shipped in.

Owain left the commander's headquarters and found his colour sergeant.

"Mr. Coombs—"
"Sir?"
"Get your men together while I have a word with the quartermaster. We may be conducting a raid in force this afternoon."
"Yes sir."

A quick visit to the quartermaster sergeant and Lieutenant Madoc had a small amount of "unauthorized" funds, a small train of camels, and enough sacks and baskets to conduct a sizable raid on the market. Gathering intelligence, outthinking your enemy, and seeking any advantage you could against your opponent—these were the skills that Owain had learned in the army, and was about to employ in haggling in the souk.

"Platoon, atten-TION!"
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
" Dearest Madeleine,
I have at last arrived at Camp Sarastro. The journey was quite arduous, although I believe I have already acquainted you with the vicissitudes of life in Cairo. No, my dear, I do not think the desert is at all romantic. There was a scorpion in one of my shoes this morning. Naturally I disposed of it myself, without troubling the native porters who are quite spooked by the meerest things. They are a funny lot, and extremely uncivilized. How they ever managed to build more than simple huts I will never know.
Anyway, to answer your question, yes there is something you can do for me. I am enclosing a special packet of my jottings for the Society. Please deliver them to the Secretary as soon as you get them. Thank you my dear.
Yours etc.
L__y B. Haighton-Chats__y"

Lady B. signed the note with a flourish, sealed it into a large waxed envelope along with a small packet of papers, and went to look for a deliverer. She knew Archie regularly sent and received things via a postbag, but she did not know whose job it was, as yet, to ride in and out of camp with the mail. She hoped it was one of the splendid looking military gentlemen, and not some ragtag native boy.

"Yoohoo! Yoohoo, Archie-kins! I want to ask you something!"...
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
No problem for writing up your character today/tomorrow, IF.

Sir Kevin, if I could guarantee your survival at least 24 hours of game time (and I can because I'm in charge here at Camp Sarastro ), would you be persuaded to play?
 

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Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Sand. Sand in her shoes and in her stockings and even between her toes. Sand in her pockets. Sand in her eyes, and her nostrils, and under her fingernails. Sand, even, in her cucumber sandwiches which she had so carefully prepared for the journey.

When Miss Hyacinth Smudgeson had packed her bags and left the sorrows of her lonely life behind her, she had never expected to end up in such an alien environment. She would never be in danger of mistaking her new home for England's green and pleasant land. But still, she was sure that even in this seemingly unwelcoming and blisteringly lot place there must be people in need of a good traditional cup of tea and a scone. And perhaps in the bustle of the archeological dig she would find sufficient diversion to help her forget the heartless way her betrothed had betrayed her.

With determination, Hyacinth strode forth towards the tent where she had been told there was a place for her to set up shop, providing refreshments for the workers and people of the camp. What excitement lay ahead, she did not know, but once the kettle was on she knew she would feel more at home.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Fourteen players now:

Hart
El Greco
CuppaT
Ariston Astuanax
Herrick
Dafyd
Eliab
fletcher christian
Wet Kipper
Imaginary Friend
Banner Lady
Autenrieth Road
Sylvander
Smudgie (so glad we're going to be able to get a good cup of tea out here in the desert)

Anyone else want to slip in under the wire before we start?
 

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Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
with the hours of the strongest sun now over, Tavish stepped out frmo under the shelter of the awning in front of his tent.
This place was getting busier by the minute, full of helpers and scroungers in equal measure, he'd wager.
He went for a look around to see who was who and what was what. He didn't like the look of those camels, though. And he'd heard there might actually be a chance of a good cuppa somewhere.

[ 15. October 2010, 15:19: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Professor Montgomery Llewellyn Stewart McBride had arrived back at the camp about 12 hours earlier. His own excavation (located approximately 9 miles south-west of Lord Whisker's dig) had so far yielded nothing but a few broken pots, the odd camel bone and some human remains which looked worrying recent in origin. On his arrival back at the camp he had been dismayed to hear of his rival's success. The tomb of Pharaoh Senkhet III! It was a miracle. A blinding, damnable, irritating miracle. Of course, the professor's opinion of Lord Whiskers was low (who calls themselves after a brand of cat food anyways, even if the feline was a sacred animal to the Egyptians) but this really took the biscuit! How could such a fool be so lucky?

As Professor McBride paced up and down inside his tent he could barely contain his rage. Now he had a decision to make: continue with his own excavation in the hope that something will turn up, of swallow his pride and ingratiate himself with the idiot who stumbled upon this treasure trove of archaeological action in the hope that he might be able to wangle his way into the exploration party. "Somebody with a brain has to be there," he fumed to himself, "or those idiots will ruin the whole thing. But how to do it?"

It was late that night before McBride was able to sleep, but by the time he started to drift off, the beginnings of a plan was starting to become clear...
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
You should all have your PMs by now – let me know if any problems. As usual the roles have been distributed at random by Mr. Excel.

Any of the following may be in play (I shan’t tell you how many of each):

The Guardians of Senkhet are the mafia. They can kill one person overnight.

The masons can be assured of each other’s innocence. However they may not communicate with each other except on the thread (i.e. no PMs).

The doctor may protect one person from assassination overnight. Please note that a doctor may not protect him or herself.

Hercule Poirot (no doubt very cunningly disguised here at Camp Sarastro ) is the detective and may investigate one person each night.

The vigilante may kill one person overnight on the days on which no one is lynched (and those days only). For clarity, the vigilante may take a pop at whoever s/he likes –it doesn’t have to be a player who was nominated for lynching.

The miller is innocent, but looks guilty when investigated by the detective. This is a bit of a bugger for the person in question (sorry ‘bout that).

The defector investigates one person per night. If that person turns out to be one of the Guardians of Senkhet, the defector has the option of joining them (but is not obliged to do so).

If the veteran is murdered, s/he kills his/her attacker (to be clear – both the murderer and the veteran will be killed).

Citizens are everyone else.

It would help me if the Guardians of Senkhet could please choose a leader so that there’s just one central person for me to communicate with. Let me know who the chief conspirator is – thanks.

Please note that only the mafia are allowed to communicate with each other behind the scenes. Obviously if the rest of you want to send PMs/emails/carrier pigeons, there’s nothing I can do to stop you, but it’s not the best way to play the game, and in any case there’s no way of knowing that any information you receive by PM is actually true.

Rules for this round – please read carefully:

Each day begins either when someone posts a death scene, or when I announce that no one has been murdered. Following that, there is a round of accusations – nominations and defence will run simultaneously and probably last about 48 hours, or until I make a completely undemocratic unilateral decision that it’s over . There is no limit to the number of nominations each day, but no player may make more than one nomination per round, and nominations cannot be withdrawn once made.

You are not obliged to defend yourself if accused, but it might be best. I will not be giving notice of “lynch or lose” moments.

Following that, there will be a vote. Any player who gets 51% or more (i.e. absolute majority) of the vote is lynched. Voting is compulsory for all players . (For this reason, please let me know ASAP if you unexpectedly have to go off-line so the game doesn’t get held up too much).

After that, night falls, those of you who have night actions tell me what they are, and the rest of you get a good night’s sleep. No posting to the thread during the night phase please.

As usual, a bit of haunting is ok, but séances and the like are not allowed (even if consulting with the dead might be quite appropriate here in the Valley of the Kings). Also no revealing of information in death scenes. If you are among the unlucky ones who don’t survive the duration, whatever you know will have to go with you to the grave, I’m afraid.

And with that, the sun comes up over Camp Sarastro…
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
It is almost eight in the morning, and strangely, Lord Whisker has not yet awaked. Following his feverish excitement yesterday, his assistants were sure he would be up before dawn. Finally one of them goes to check on him and find out the plans for the day’s digging.
A few moments later, a piercing scream rings out across Camp Sarastro. The assistant runs from Lord Whisker’s tent pale and shaking. As the other members of the party look inside his tent to find out the cause of the commotion, they are greeted by a horrifying sight. Lord Whiskers is sitting up on his cot stone dead, an arrow shot expertly into his heart. His face is stuck in an expression somewhere between horror and bewildered incomprehension.

On closer inspection, a note is found attached to the arrow. It reads:

YOU WERE WARNED
ACCURSED BE THE ONE WHO DISTURBS THE SLEEP OF HIS MAJESTY
THE KING SHALL REST IN PEACE
- THE GUARDIANS OF SENKHET

So, who could be responsible for this heinous crime? If you think anyone is looking shifty, feel free to accuse them now.

(As you see, we’re starting with a nomination phase. Whenever we play this game, there seems to be agreement that it sucks a bit to be bumped off before you’ve have chance to play. So I’m letting you all have one go at voting while you’re still alive.)

Since it’s currently the weekend and I understand that it could take some of you a little while to get organised, nominations will remain open until at least Tuesday night my time. Please make your nominations in bold to make sure I don’t miss any of them.
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Eli Abrahams rolls his eyes and shrugs at the news of Lord Whisker’s death. He had neither personal dislike for, nor grievance against, the British aristocrat, but neither does he imagine that the deceased would have felt any sorrow had their positions been reversed, and thus feels no impulse to mourn him. The death confirms what Eli had begun to suspect, the Whisker was right about the resting place of the dead king, and for once Eli had been misguided in accepting his usual (high) fee for arranging local supplies, bearers and labourers, rather than providing them at his own expense in expectation of a share in the profits of success. He shrugs again. Such is life, and the money, already resting safely in a Cairo bank, will not be worth any less because of a gamble not taken.

Besides, the line of said bearers and labourers streaming away from the camp in fear, all of them due to be paid by Mr Abrahams in arrears, represents a golden opportunity to renegotiate the position with whoever intends to take charge of the expedition. Eli smiles to himself. The goyim would be surprised if he didn’t. He thinks how the Englishmen would react if, instead, he went to them full of apologies for the desertion of his labourers, and offering to replace them at his own expense – and almost laughs out loud. For a moment, he seriously entertains the idea of doing it – and seeing how they would deal with the overturning of all their preconceptions about a Middle-Eastern Jew. Then he comes to his senses – he had, after all, never met an Englishman who did not deserve to be treated in exactly the way that the English expect foreigners to treat them. The fools never understood that it wasn’t their money that really mattered to Abrahams. Honestly, he already had enough. The money was simply a very convenient, and very enjoyable, way of keeping score.
 

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Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
News travels fast on desert winds and Seth heard early of the death of Lord Whiskers. He knew of the Westerners paranormal tales of disturbed tombs, but this didn't sound too paranormal. He started to wonder at the wisdom of sitting out in the desert with only a few of his camels for protection.
 

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Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
Compassionate and gracious,
slow to anger, abounding in love are thou, oh great Senkhet.

You will not always accuse,
nor will you harbor your anger forever;

you do not treat us as our sins deserve
or repay us according to our iniquities.

For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is your love for those who fear you and their families;

As a father has compassion on his children,
so Senkhet has compassion on those who fear him;

For he knows how we are formed,
he remembers that we are his servants.

Andrew was finishing his morning prayers to his Protector-God, when he heard people screaming. Calm, he went to see what happened, and came back in his prayer room horrified. His father, the great Egyptologist Lord Whiskers had been murdered.

Quickly, he grabbed a piece of paper and wrote a few lines. He sealed the paper with wax, and wrote at the front: "IN CASE OF VIOLENT DEATH. TO BE READ THREE DAYS AFTER I GET MURDERED. ANDREW WHISKERS, SERVANT OF THE OLD GODS"

He hid the paper in a safe place.

Oh great Senkhet,
accept in your bosom my father
the lover of Egypt
Regenerate him
and guide him in the life after this life...

Andrew was chanting the ancient prayers for the passage to the world beyond. He performed the rites with great diligence, and he put his faith in the Gods that his father, though ignorant of the spiritual world, would be guided through the Great Process with success.

If his suspicions were to be true, then his own life was in serious danger. But he knew his life was worth nothing. So he didn't ask for the great God Suv to protect him from violent death. He believed the God-Bird had better fly fast so that he could protect them that mattered the most.

If I don't die, he thought, I will be able to put foot on the marvelous and sacred sanctuary, and I will call upon Him Who Cannot be Named from the holy ground my father was about to discover. And if I die, I will speak from the world of the Dead, and I will let the entire Egypt know about the sinister money-hangry people that have nothing to do with the Old Ways, about them who I suspect murdered my father, blaspheming Great and Peaceful Senkhet in the process.
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Dai Mortal had known it was going to happen. He'd warned them. He'd told people (although the bartender was the only person who hadn't been able to back slowly away). The English Lord was dead. And, though Dai hadn't seen the arrow, he just knew that it must be an arrow Of No Human Shape.
This was only going to lead to tentacles. Tentacles and thousands of little black spiders...

He went back into the bar to get a drink.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Arsene Beauregard awoke from a nightmare. He was in a world where the keyboard was all muddled. It was Bretonic. Unfortunately Arsene did not even know what a keyboard was.
Alas he awoke from one nightmare into another. One of the silly Englishmen had managed to get himself murdered.
Arsene decided the most important was to get properly shaved and dressed.
 

---

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Haji could see that these foreigners were a very violent people. First that raid on the markets that he knew was due to them, and now they start knocking each other off. He was sure that something had to be done, one of them had to be brought to justice... but he didn't know who. He would meditate until feeling more sure of himself before deciding on a path forward.
 

---

Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Lady Bernardine was not given to histrionics. But the news that one of her fellow nobility had been foully done away with saw her standing white faced at the entrance of her tent with her fulsome power of speech momentarily paralysed.

Lord Archibald dead? How can this be? All around her porters were running, snatching up what they could before fleeing the site and wailing about curses and avenging spirits.

Above all the commotion one voice could be heard intoning ancient prayers. She hastily crossed herself and strode across to the dining marquee where a most ingenius hot tea stand had appeared. She knew without a doubt that this was where her countrymen would be congregating at a time like this.
 

---

Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
"Arse" shouted Tavish, at himself

Barely a week into what he had thought was going to be well rewarded babysitting, and he'd already let his guard down enough that Archie was deid.

Perhaps his old man would be happy if Tavish looked after the bairn now instead.

In fact, from murmurs he had heard around the camp, perhaps the wee whisker was worth keeping an eye on, for Tavish's own safety
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
the following is available at a very modest price:

Eli Abrahams’ Guidance Notes for Surviving Attacks by Murderous Cultists

(50 piastre: 5millieme refund available on certification of premature death*)

1. Careless talk saves lives.
We’ll never spot the Cultists if everyone is afraid to talk. We want dialogue, debate, analysis, reasons, and as much of it as possible. Never discourage verbosity. Never suggest that someone is talking too much. We want the Cultists to have to talk and analyse and argue. If they can blend in with silence, they will. We must make silence suspicious and unusual.
2. Don’t take it personally.
The very worst thing an innocent person can do is to counter-accuse someone who suspects them without good reasons. All that tells us is that you find it annoying to be at risk of being unjustly lynched. Trust me, we’d already worked that out. Don’t be afraid to accuse your accuse if you have good reason, but make sure you set out a clear case. People will be falsely accused. Mistakes are inevitable. Don’t take it personally.
3. Be alert. (Camp Sarastro, as your English humour charmingly puts it, has a requirement for lerts)
We’ll spot the Cultists best when their interests diverge from ours. When they do something irrational, foolish and inexplicable on any hypothesis but guilt, we’ll have them. Of course, this presupposes that it isn’t just a simple innocent being thoughtless. So don’t be thoughtless. Consider your actions carefully, Otherwise, you’ll get lynched for making a silly mistake, and it’ll be your own fault, but that won’t make the rest of us feel a great deal better.
4. Make investigation pay.
If you’re an investigative type, you’ll probably feel tempted to check out the most vocal and controversial of the camp denizens. Don’t. Controversies tend to resolve themselves over time. Loud-mouthed criminals give themselves away. Instead, check out the people you have no idea about at all. The aim is to maximise what you know. Going from ‘no idea’ to ‘full facts’ tells you more than going from suspicion to certainty.

And don’t forget that clearing the innocent is as valuable as convicting the guilty. You won’t want to stick your neck out to say that someone is guiltless, of course, but make sure you record your results in some way, and in a way that (when you are dead and we are looking back on all that you’ve said to find clues) we will be able to tell, with hindsight, what was certain knowledge and what was your personal opinion.
5. A free win to one lucky participant.
If you are lucky enough to be on the verge of Cult membership (I’m talking to you, Mr Defector), then tell us now. Seriously. The Cultists won’t kill you – because you are a potential asset and anyway they’d rather try for a doctor or detective. And we won’t either, because until you actually switch, you’re one of us. And then you, lucky turncoat that you are, get to sit back, watch the contest, and join the winning side at the end. Before long, you’ll have all the evidence needed to swing the endgame in our favour (if you stay loyal), or you jump ship. No one will touch you because you might get to be kingmaker.

All you need to know to survive. Detailed tactical consultations available on request.

Eli Abrahams

*Claims will be met only if presented in person
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
The following is available at a very modest price:

Eli Abrahams’ Guidance Notes for Surviving Attacks by Murderous Cultists

New Edition! This one not type-set by hitting a typewriter with a camel's arse!

(55 piastre: 5millieme refund available on certification of premature death*)

1. Careless talk saves lives.

We’ll never spot the Cultists if everyone is afraid to talk. We want dialogue, debate, analysis, reasons, and as much of it as possible. Never discourage verbosity. Never suggest that someone is talking too much. We want the Cultists to have to talk and analyse and argue. If they can blend in with silence, they will. We must make silence suspicious and unusual.


2. Don’t take it personally.

The very worst thing an innocent person can do is to counter-accuse someone who suspects them without good reasons. All that tells us is that you find it annoying to be at risk of being unjustly lynched. Trust me, we’d already worked that out. Don’t be afraid to accuse your accuse if you have good reason, but make sure you set out a clear case. People will be falsely accused. Mistakes are inevitable. Don’t take it personally.


3. Be alert. (Camp Sarastro, as your English humour charmingly puts it, has a requirement for lerts)

We’ll spot the Cultists best when their interests diverge from ours. When they do something irrational, foolish and inexplicable on any hypothesis but guilt, we’ll have them. Of course, this presupposes that it isn’t just a simple innocent being thoughtless. So don’t be thoughtless. Consider your actions carefully, Otherwise, you’ll get lynched for making a silly mistake, and it’ll be your own fault, but that won’t make the rest of us feel a great deal better.


4. Make investigation pay.

If you’re an investigative type, you’ll probably feel tempted to check out the most vocal and controversial of the camp denizens. Don’t. Controversies tend to resolve themselves over time. Loud-mouthed criminals give themselves away. Instead, check out the people you have no idea about at all. The aim is to maximise what you know. Going from ‘no idea’ to ‘full facts’ tells you more than going from suspicion to certainty.

And don’t forget that clearing the innocent is as valuable as convicting the guilty. You won’t want to stick your neck out to say that someone is guiltless, of course, but make sure you record your results in some way, and in a way that (when you are dead and we are looking back on all that you’ve said to find clues) we will be able to tell, with hindsight, what was certain knowledge and what was your personal opinion.


5. A free win to one lucky participant.

If you are lucky enough to be on the verge of Cult membership (I’m talking to you, Mr Defector), then tell us now. Seriously. The Cultists won’t kill you – because you are a potential asset and anyway they’d rather try for a doctor or detective. And we won’t either, because until you actually switch, you’re one of us. And then you, lucky turncoat that you are, get to sit back, watch the contest, and join the winning side at the end. Before long, you’ll have all the evidence needed to swing the endgame in our favour (if you stay loyal), or you jump ship. No one will touch you because you might get to be kingmaker.


All you need to know to survive. Detailed tactical consultations available on request.

Eli Abrahams

*Claims will be met only if presented in person
 

---

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
Lt. Madoc had a look at a copy of the "guide" one of his men had purchased. Whoever this Abrahams character was, he certainly had both good business sense and a sense of humor; whether circulating his advice was a good idea, though, was another matter. There's always a risk in circulating "how to" guides too widely, as your enemy may use it to his own advantage; then again, Mr. Abrahams didn't seem to be concerned about who lived or died, so much as who paid up front.

Owain wondered if he might convince him to have a word with the captain. Things might be run so much more efficiently with Eli in charge . . .

The lieutenant set down the pamphlet and tried to get some rest amongst all the commotion. Ever since Lord Whiskers had been murdered, the guard detail posted at the camp had been increased; even junior officers were not exempt from nighttime watch duty. Plus, dead bodies are dead bodies. Owain had seen enough to be more interested in preventing new ones than gawking at the old.

[ 17. October 2010, 22:02: Message edited by: AristonAstuanax ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Rose Autenrieth had slept late, not being awakened by Lord Whiskers' usual bellowing for hot water and his shaving kit. When she finally awoke and finished getting washed and dressed, the sun was high over the yardarm. (The English members of the expedition had whimsically mounted one near where the desert ships were tethered.). Eschewing drink, she went in search of a good hot cuppa. As she made her way to the teastand that had materialized in the center of the camp, she noticed that everyone was in commotion and muttering "Murder!"
 

---

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
The little teastand was already proving worth its weight in.. er. sand. People seemed to be flocking around, talking ceaselessly or else maintaining a stunned silence. Still, taciturn or verbose, as long as they were drinking tea they were welcome at Miss Smudgeson's tearoo..er...teatent.
A new customer approached and Miss Smudgeson greeted her with a smile, as yet unable to answer the lady's query about the matter that seemed to be causing such consternation in the camp. But the other customers were not reticent in answering her question and it soon became evident that sand was not the only thing to worry about in this godforsaken place.
Time for a cup of tea.
 

---

Posted by Herrick (# 15226) on :
 
Professor Craig Champion read the letter and immediately telephoned for flights to Egypt. His interest had been piqued and his nasal passages had been picked. This was more than interesting; it was intriguing.

He could smell that something here was not as it seemed.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
Andrew greeted Professor Craig Champion at the airport. He was a colleague of his father, and a good friend of the family.

"My condolences. Lord Whisker will be greatly missed. Such a tragedy".

"Thank you, Professor. It has been very difficult. My father wanted you to know all about the excavations. I have arranged a private tour. I have to warn you though, I fear we are all in grave danger. There are dark powers in action. And the Old Gods can't do much to help yet."

Professor Craig Champion nodded meaningfully.

[ 18. October 2010, 11:37: Message edited by: El Greco ]
 

---

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Haji didn't feel at all guilty that his meditation had consisted mainly of doing math -- after all, his people did invent it! He had to make some random guesses, but here was a first analysis.

The guesses relate to how many of each role we have. He guessed 1 vigilante, 3 cultist and 3 masons.

1) If we don't lynch anyone, the vigilante has a shot tonight. They know they're innocent, but have no further information. This gives them a 3/13 chance of killing a cultist.

2) Suppose we lynch someone. The only people with any information to work with are the cultists and the masons. The cultists can be sure of putting up an innocent for lynching, the masons can pick at random and get a 3/11 chance of nominating a cultist (which is better than anyone else at this stage). If the mob votes randomly (and, with no further information, there's not a lot else to do), then we have a 3/22 chance of killing a cultist by nominating.

Haji decided, as much as it went against his instincts, to spread this advice by rumor instead of preaching it from the rooftops: it was somewhat provisional, being so heavily based on guess work.
 

---

Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
"Good Lord!" exclaimed Lady B to Rose and Hyacinth. "There are Professors popping up everywhere! Tavish is already casting suspicions; alliances seem to be being formed - and poor dear Archie not even in his coffin yet. However I am quite sure the dig must go on. It is what Lord Whisker would have wanted."

She knew that she should not withdraw her financial backing; but was disturbed about the sort of person who might push themselves forward to take charge of the venture in this time of fraught feeling.

"What I really need," she said half to herself, "is a damned good lawyer."
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Haji,

3 cultists may not be a bad guess. Likewise, 3 masons sounds right (one, and it's not much of a lodge, two, and the advantage is minimal, and four would be excessive). But why a vigilante and not a doctor or detective?


Lady Bernardine,

My brother-in-law is a fine lawyer. I will gladly arrange an introduction for a small consideration.

(Five Eygptian pounds, or equivalent in dollars, francs or sterling, would be customary. I mention this as I am sure a Lady of undoubtedly generous nature such as yourself would not wish to give offence by offering too much.)
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
3 cultists may not be a bad guess. Likewise, 3 masons sounds right (one, and it's not much of a lodge, two, and the advantage is minimal, and four would be excessive). But why a vigilante and not a doctor or detective?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
I'd guess that just at the moment the doctor and the detective are in the same boat as the rest of us. They can't do anything on this turn to get rid of the cultists except nominate someone at random. The vigilante has no more knowledge than anyone else but they can kill someone at random.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:

I suppose Haji might be working on the basis that there's at least one of each, (and didn't mention the irrelevant roles) but we have no guarantee that this is the case.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Point taken that IF we have a vigilante, voting for no lynching has a higher chance of getting a cultist than voting between a Masonic and a cultist nomination. It also tells us less from argument and voting, and we stand a better chance of losing a useful innocent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Point taken that IF we have a vigilante, voting for no lynching has a higher chance of getting a cultist than voting between (at best) a Masonic and a cultist nomination. It also tells us less from argument and voting, and we stand a better chance of losing a useful innocent (a falsely accused doctor can protest his innocence, one whose throat is cut in his sleep cannot). But we don't even know if we have a vigilante (and that is not a role that should be made public), and if we do, he or she may be a fool.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
AIUI, once nominations have been made, we can't vote for "no lynching", but if we have 3 or more nomincations then, as a group, we can split our groups and avoid giving anyone the 51% necessary to lynch.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:


The vigilante may kill one person overnight on the days on which no one is lynched (and those days only).

---

quote:

---

Any player who gets 51% or more (i.e. absolute majority) of the vote is lynched. Voting is compulsory for all players .

---

Rose knelt in prayer. "Please, dear oracle, let us know if when we vote as required, we must vote for a nominated name, or can vote No Lynching instead."
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Time for a rules clarification, methinks

When we get to that, there will be a “no lynching” option that you can vote for. What you can’t do is not vote at all.

Hope that helps.

AIUI, there is one nomination so far, for Rose Autenrieth by Lt Madoc. Any more? You have about 24 hours left to get any extra nominations in.
 

---

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
Yes Rose, you have been nominated, in case you were wondering.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Thank you for the clarification. It's rather lonely here by the wall. I nominate Professor Montgomery Llewellyn Stewart McBride (Imaginary Friend). If for some reason we're not agreed about not lynching someone, I want there to be someone else to split the vote with. By having more than one nominee, we may get more information. He hasn't said anything since Lord Whiskers was found murdered.

It goes without saying that I'm innocent. I think I was nominated just because I was the most recent person to post when AA came along with his entirely reasonable proposal to nominate someone.

I think our best course of action is to arrange a No Lynching for at least the first day, because of the odds described above involving the perhaps Vigilante.
 

---

Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
Tavish checked his moustache for remnants of tea. Boy, that woman knew how to make a good cuppa. And talking of women, where did all these fine specimens pop up from ?
He agreed with the one who said that Professors were popping up everywhere, and not just the ones with fancy titles. Everyone seemed to be spouting a theory of how we cope, panicked that now the Big Whisker had gone -
(and just how many people offered to help Tavish deal with the man's body to have it sent home ? Exactly) -
as if this meant we were all going to be dropping like flies.
Sure enough, justice had to be done, but no need to go round getting rid of your fellow man (or woman) willy-nilly.
He would let the rest talk all they want, and see what happened. He wasn't a school books clever man like them, but he did know the value of watching for those who talked too much, and those who said too little.
He went to get another cuppa, wondering if his accent would still sway the foreign* lassies like it used to


*i.e. not Scottish

[ 19. October 2010, 08:45: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I think our best course of action is to arrange a No Lynching for at least the first day, because of the odds described above involving the perhaps Vigilante.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:

I suppose Haji might be working on the basis that there's at least one of each, (and didn't mention the irrelevant roles) but we have no guarantee that this is the case.

---

That was indeed my assumption, which I tried to flag as dubious so as people might take it with the pinch of salt it deserves.

---

If that does turn out to be the case, then I should point out that IF the detective can clear three innocent people (and if one of these is the defector, he stays loyal), and we avoid lynching any known innocent, then we can win.

I'll say that now in case I get murdered before it applies. If there are three masons now, and in three days time the detective has cleared enough people to bring the total of innocents to four plus him/herself, then the ‘knowns' outnumber the ‘unknowns' five to three. There's complications if the detective clears Masons, or if a lynching fails or an assassination is thwarted, of course, but in principle, IF it's right that we have all available specials, three days' time is about the point that we should be looking at role-claims. At that point, the doctor (if there is one) should guard the detective*. I would suggest that a Mason (if there is one) makes the first appeal at that stage if the strategy looks viable (ie. the detective is not dead), since we give away less if we sacrifice a Mason and there turns out to be no detective, than if the detective claims and there turn out to be no Masons. If there are no Masons, it's not viable - and no one claims.

The defector, as I've said, can (and should) declare themself now, and if the Camp look like winning, can stay loyal and help us. Since the cultists can beat my plan only by taking out the detective before we clear enough innocents to win, they can't afford to kill a known defector. The defector can afford to switch at the last minute if the plan fails, but I'm guessing they will prefer to stick with certain victory.

Because life is rarely so kind, I doubt that we do have at least one of each role. But if we do, then if we're smart, we're going to win.


*In the interim, of course, the doctor should be guarding me.
 

---

Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
(tangent)
every time I play this game, I'm reminded why i said I wouldn;t play again.

My brain hurts

why is this game so complicated ? why can't we go back to old fashioned goodies versus baddies, with either 1 doctor or 1 detective?
(end tangent)

[ 19. October 2010, 13:59: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
There appears to be a need for this:

Eli Abrahams' Executive Guidance Notes for Surviving Attacks by Murderous Cultists


(50 piastre, all profits go to the Distressed Jewish Fixers' Retirement Fund)


If you are a:

citizen - blather away as much as you want about everything you think of. Do not declare your role EVER. Nominate, and vote to lynch, people who are (i) quiet; (ii) guilty; or (iii) Eli Abrahams has nominated.

doctor - Do not declare your role unless (a) accused and likely to be lynched; or (b) contradicting a false claimant. Act normal. Protect the detective. If the detective has not declared himself, protect Eli Abrahams.

detective - investigate someone every night. Accuse the guilty. Express your thoughts tentatively and your findings with certitude. Don't draw attention to yourself, but don't hide away either. Act normal. Do not declare your role unless (a) accused and likely to be lynched; (b) contradicting a false claimant; or (c) doing so wins.

mason - do not declare your role unless (a) accused; (b) contradicting a false claimant; or (c) at least day 3. Act normal.

defector - declare your role immediately. Investigate every night. Relax. Pick a side that is going to win.

vigilante - do not declare your role unless (a) accused; or (b) contradicting a false claimant. If you kill anyone, don't make mistakes. Act normal.

veteran - do not declare your role unless (a) accused; or (b) contradicting a false claimant. Act normalier than normal.

miller - pray. In fact, you might as well tell us who you are and save us a wasted investigation.

Guardian of Senkhet - give up now. Or, better still, try bribery. Bribery is good. Hard currency only please. In advance.


Read the part that pertains to you, and do it. You will have a better than even chance of making out of the camp alive.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
why can't we go back to old fashioned goodies versus baddies, with either 1 doctor or 1 detective?
(end tangent)

---

because that would be boring
 

---

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
A lot of information had been put out which Haji needed guidance on from above. He decided to enter into a 30 hour period of fasting and prayer to discern his action when the time to vote came. It was a mystery of the faith that he thought he'd be able to get his 30 hours in before night fell.

[OOC: On the road for a while, see you all soon... hopefully in time to vote. /OOC]
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Nominations closed

We shall now move to a vote.

You may vote for

• Rose Autenrieth (Autenrieth Road), nominated by Lt Madoc
• Professor McBride (Imaginary Friend) nominated by Rose Autenrieth
• no lynching

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eli Abrahams:
3. Be alert. (Camp Sarastro, as your English humour charmingly puts it, has a requirement for lerts)

---

• Rose Autenrieth - one vote
• Professor McBride six votes
• no lynching seven votes

quote:

---

After that, night falls, those of you who have night actions tell me what they are, and the rest of you get a good night’s sleep. No posting to the thread during the night phase please.

---

I'm a bit suspicious of all those who have told us they've been moving around "tonight"

[ 25. October 2010, 08:51: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Morning breaks

Professor Champion has been murdered in retribution for his disturbance of the king's tomb. He was Hercule Poirot (detective).

Herrick tells me this is actually quite convenient for him, because real life has suddenly got extremely busy. Consequently he doesn't have time to write a death scene either, which I guess gives the rest of you free reign to decide how the Guardians of Senkhet did him in

Nominations will stay open for the next 48 hours or so.

As AR noticed last time, defence will run simultaneously.
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
I intend to nominate Professor McBride.

I should say that I have no particular reason to think him guilty (or innocent), but nonetheless consider that lynching him is the best deal currently on offer in a very bad market.


My reasoning: McBride is either guilty or innocent. If he is guilty, then lynching him would be a good thing, and no further argument is required.

But he might be innocent. Why is it better to lynch him than anyone else who might (equally) be innocent? Because it tells us more. Our detective is dead. We will get no help in finding the guilty and clearing the innocent as I'd hoped we might. So it's down to us to wring as much information out of every vote as we can. Information is vital - it is our food, our water, our currency, our life. Everything we do from now on must be aimed at finding and testing and analysing knowledge. Otherwise we die.

Now yesterday's vote was pretty quickly made a contest between lynching McBride and doing nothing. Our Cultists would have liked McBride dead if (as we are assuming) he was innocent (they would rather lynch an innocent than risk a random vigilante slaying), but more than that they want to remain inconspicuous. So it is reasonable to conjecture that one at least voted for ‘no lynching'. Who?

Our pool is:

Professor McBride himself
Lady Bernadine
Papagena
Arsène Beauregard
Haji
Tavish McCallum
Hyacinth Smudgeson

This is the point:

Miss Smudgeson's vote was meaningless - the issue was decided, so of course she would vote in a way to avoid risking emnity regardless of her own interests. Arsène's was cast by proxy - we can't know when he made his decision and so we can't read much into it. Andrew (an effective 'no lyncher' voted for Rose under a claimed misapprehension). So the pool divides thus:

The first three voters, Professor McBride, Lady Bernadine, and Papagena, who started the run of ‘no lynching' and the two who voted when it mattered - when McBride was in serious danger - Haji and Tavish.

My observation is this. When Haji and Tavish voted, McBride had six votes. Rose was already safe, so it was him or no one. Voting for him was inconspicuous - there would be nothing suspicious in following a lead of six others, most of whom would be innocent. So if Haji or Tavish were cultists, and McBride not, they'd have sunk him. Or tried to. Much much better for them to see him dead than risk a vigilante taking a shot in the dark.

So it seems to be that if we lynch McBride AND he's guilty, we will have done well.

But if we lynch him and he's innocent, what we get in exchange for him is a pretty good indication that Haji and Tavish are innocent too, and (less certainly, but worth thinking about) we get a good lead on where the guilty ‘no lynchers' are. We slice the pool from seven to four. That's worth doing. It's a good deal. It's certainly better than any other random guess.
 

---

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Haji caught himself halfway through cursing and recited the 1st sura 70 times to make up for it. No vigilante, then: an expensively won piece of information. They definitely need to lynch someone this time, or else the guardians will run away with it.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Professor McBride cleared his throat and began to speak:

"I must start by assuring you all that I am absolutely innocent of any involvement with this ghastly group of outlaws who 'guard' the tomb in such a violent way. As much as Whiskers was my rival, I had no wish to see him dead and I currently mourn for him.

"As for my voting in the last round, that was pure self-preservation. Of course I don't want to be lynched (and you will all regret it if I am because I am a regular citizen in this town) but equally, I did not want to see anyone else hang who may or may not be innocent. So I did not want to vote for myself, I did not want to vote for Rose, and so I had but one choice open to me. As for the timing, I wanted to get in early to make my case (as I had slovenly forgotten to put forward a defense during the appropriate period) and also to try and build some momentum towards 'no lynching'.

"And then we come to the reasoning of the Mr Abrahams, which I must say is more conjecture and surmising than concrete logic: He assumes that the Guardians of Senkhet will have voted as a block. I see no reason why this should be true. It would make more sense for them to vote differently from each other so as to avoid suspicion of their grouping. If I were in their shoes, I would want to start off by trying to secure the lynching of an innocent (such as myself), but I would want to keep at least one of my votes for later in case it was necessary to throw the poll one way or the other. On that basis, I would suspect Mr Abrahams himself for casting the first vote for my lynching (under the guise of having to do something), Rose, and Lieutenant Madoc (who, incidentally was the person who nominated Rose). These three all seem very keen to bump people off without much evidence so I wonder if one or more of them are not behind the dastardly murders.

"Now it is clear that the sheer force of Mr Abrahams' personality means that he is the de facto leader in this place. From a political point of view it is therefore senseless to nominate him because that is a vote that I could not hope to win. But either Rose or Lieutenant Madoc (but probably not both, since it was the Lieutenant who nominated Rose in the last round) might well be guilty. So there is a decision to make: should someone nominate one or other of them, and if so, who?"

And with that, the Professor sat down and waited to see how the other members of the camp would respond.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:

My observation is this. When Haji and Tavish voted, McBride had six votes. Rose was already safe, so it was him or no one. Voting for him was inconspicuous - there would be nothing suspicious in following a lead of six others, most of whom would be innocent. So if Haji or Tavish were cultists, and McBride not, they'd have sunk him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart:
No vigilante, then: an expensively won piece of information.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
You should all have your PMs by now – let me know if any problems. As usual the roles have been distributed at random by Mr. Excel.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
"And then we come to the reasoning of the Mr Abrahams, which I must say is more conjecture and surmising than concrete logic: He assumes that the Guardians of Senkhet will have voted as a block.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
Everybody knows that casting the decisive late vote(s) for the lynching of an (possibly) innocent does make you look suspicious indeed.
[...]
"no lynching" leaves the Mafia with the option of the vigilante being overly trigger happy. Much better option than being the person seen by all to throw the noose around an innocent's neck.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Greco:
gold...it's yellow and it shines...Gold...crave gold...a pile of gold. A large, a gigantic, a gargantuan pile of gold!...gold...a yellow shining thing. Tons of that yellow shining thing...such an amount of gold...turning thin air into gold...300 kilos of beautiful Egyptian gold

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart:

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
You should all have your PMs by now – let me know if any problems. As usual the roles have been distributed at random by Mr. Excel.

---

The red cat god is clearly fictional superstition, but that's what she said (even though she doesn't exist). Einstein was wrong -- Allah does play dice.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Professor Champion has been murdered in retribution for his disturbance of the king's tomb. [...] which I guess gives the rest of you free reign to decide how the Guardians of Senkhet did him in

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Question to the Red Cat Goddess:

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Professor Champion has been murdered in retribution for his disturbance of the king's tomb. [...] which I guess gives the rest of you free reign to decide how the Guardians of Senkhet did him in

---

Can we take it from the above that this is a confirmed Guardians of Senkhet killing? Because it might be possible that, if the Guardians either unaccountably chose not to kill (which has happened in at least one previous game) or (more likely) were thwarted by a doctor, this was a vigilante slaying.

But the description appears to rule this out. Was that intended?

---

• Professor McBride (Imaginary Friend), nominated by Eli Abrahams (Eliab)
• Eli Abrahams (Eliab), nominated by Arsène Beauregard (Sylvander)
• Hyacinth Smudgeson nominated by Mr Seth (fletcher christian)
• No lynching

With thirteen people still alive, seven votes are required to secure a lynching.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
"Ah. The Masons. A nice club that was once very influenced by the Egyptian Gods. But when they decided to opt for a monotheistic-friendly approach, the Gods abandoned them, and they lost their power. Today they mostly play with swords and wear skirts. Weirdos."

"Professor McBride, a Mason has nominated you. What do you have to say in your defense?" said the high priest, wearing his nice white robe, fondling the ring of wrath.
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Message from Amun-Rouge-Ra the red cat goddess*:

Eli Abrahams (who I would have expected to be a Jewish monotheist and consequently not inclined to praying to me, but there you go - I'll take devotion where I can get it) has made his imprecation unto me and wishes that a vote for Professor McBride may issue from the mouth of the oracle.

*How and why I've turned into a cat is rather unclear to me. I'm quite pleased with the progression from mere oracle to goddess tho
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Arsène shifts his bonnet back to his right ear and the pipe to the left corner of his mouth (for balance). Much as he cannot deny that he is an ardent admirer of divine female beauty he cannot help but feel that goddesses are like cats in their somewhat ego-centric outlook on life.
"You've been made a cat-goddess, dear, no one will deny your shapely limbs, elegant stride, shiny hair and intriguing eyes," he mumbles, "but please do not focus on the latter part of your new identity only ." In Egypt the goddess-thingy only derives from the cat-ness. Arsène was actually quite amused by the idea that God was a cat. It went well with modern Western churches which had turned god into a kind of fluffy consolation-toy for all those in need of a spiritual cuddle.

As for the un-cuddly lynching business he was undecided. He felt it his duty to vote for whom he had nominated but of course was anything but sure he was after the right man.
He agreed with his suspect that lynching was important and no action was worse than wrong action. Thus voting differently from the first voter so early on would increase the risk of having a hung vote (and thus a not-hung player). Which was no fun and very bad.
In this vein he wished to point out for the record that if one of the two first nominees (McBride or Eli Abrahams) was guilty it would be in the interest of the Guardians to nominate another player - split votes make lynchings less likely. So the nomination of Hyacinth Smudgeson by Mr Seth ought to be remembered.

Arsène was sure he would vote for Hyacinth as third choice only. Tea was the only part of Brit cuisine he liked and she was the only member of the English party whom he had met before. Long ago before he came to the desert, in a place called IRL.

Eli's mason claim was a new twist. Truth? Or a cunning or perhaps even a desperate lie?

Beauregard wondered whether the other masons could confirm it? What did they stand to lose? The wicked Guardians might go after them by night - unpleasant for the individual but not so much for their team. The Guardians would lose precious time in the process of killing masons, time they could not use to kill doctors or possible other detectives. Plus they might hit and find a mason protected by the doctor who after all would know as much as they do. This perhaps-mason in fact called to be protected.
They could on the other hand do the opposite and leave the masons alone, killing others - but that would still leave the honest citizens a higher likelihood of lynching evil Guardians by excluding the masons from their anger.

So Arsène, uncertain which way the general mood wouild go, felt that since he had nominated someone, thus declaring himself, he need not be among the first to vote.
Hart seemed independently have come to a similar conclusion re Eli Abrahams as he had but it was unclear how the others thought. If towards the end the votes were split he'd rather top one of the two others canidates than nobody at all.

Thus he procrastinated, also to give the other masons time and chance to come clear and support Eli's claim. He thought this would help the honest folk more than the vicious.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Greco:
"Professor McBride, a Mason has nominated you. What do you have to say in your defense?" said the high priest, wearing his nice white robe, fondling the ring of wrath.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Here's why I voted against Professor McBride. I think claiming to be a Mason is a claim that would be highly risky to fake. So I believe Eliab.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
"For the record, we don't know for sure that there are any Masons" pointed out the Dead Man Walking.

---

True, but it would be quite a bluff for Eli to wager on that!
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
The votes are in -

Professor McBride - 10 votes
Eli Abrahams - 2 votes.

(Papagena/CuppaT has disappeared off into the desert - just this once I'll let it pass, especially since her PM box is full.)

Camp Sarastro is a dangerous place for academics. The Professor is well and truly lynched. He was a citizen.

Once Imaginary Friend has posted a death scene, night will fall.
 

---

Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
Having had her fill of the wildlife in the sands, Papagena returns to the wildlife of the camp. Never being one to simply follow the crowd, she points her nose toward the tea shop of Miss Smudgeson, knowing that it will do neither harm nor good.
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
bugger
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
The professor mounted the platform which had been erected for his hanging. As the noose was placed over his head, he demanded a final word to his accusers:
"Now you have significant evidence that Mr Abrahams is not as innocent as he appears. Look at what he has said carefully: examine it for unsubstantiated assumptions; look for who is vocal in agreeing with him; think carefully about the opportunities for deception that present themselves when someone with a forceful personality and a penchant for verbosity grabs the attention of the crowd. In short: look at the actual evidence, think for yourselves, and don't ever rely on the rabble-rouser to make decisions for you."

With that, the masked executioner pulled the noose tight, motioned that the professor should stand on a tall stool, and put a sackcloth bag over his head. The prisoner did as he was told, and a moment later the stool was kicked from under his feet.

The longest drop...
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
I'm sorry, Professor. You might have been my father's arch-nemesis, but you didn't deserve such an end.

It seems that we have been fooled by Eli's cunning plan. Although I did suspect him for the silliness he tried to pass as reasonable thinking, and I did try to warn others about him, it seems that most were just deaf to the oracles of the Gods.

But you should rest in peace, Professor, because the Great Vultures will tear your soul apart, for not believing in the Gods. It sounds painful, and it is, but it's also a great honor, because you will be able to see the Vultures themselves, even for a brief moment, as they tear you apart in the Underworld. According to the most holy religion of the Egyptians, you will be granted this honor because you were a great scholar. Not bad for an unbeliever!

You should rest assured that Eli will get no such honor as the Worms With No Heads devour the intestines of his soul once he gets lynched for the injustice brought to you.
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Night falls, lights out everyone.

And go to sleep this time. Or at least pretend to (reading a book under your bedcovers with a torch is allowable).

If you have a night action, please PM me now. Some of you were a bit slow last time - I may chivy you along a bit tonight if you don't make up your minds a bit quicker
 

---

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Haji awoke during the night to find a scarab beetle crawling over his forehead. Flicking it off, he noticed a menacing figure lurking in the shadows. This guardian was the last thing he would notice until on the last day he was awakened from his grave for the judgment. In his deathly sleep he dreamt, and was surprised at just how like Osiris Allah looked in his dreams...

[ 29. October 2010, 15:47: Message edited by: Hart ]
 

---

Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Lady Bernardine awoke to....no sound at all. It was very strange, for usually the first thing to be heard in the morning was the monotonous drone of the Imam Haji at prayer. She put her head out of the tent, but the only thing stirring was the pathetic figure of Professor McBride swinging limply from the yard-arm.

She shuddered. Had something happened to Haji? Lord, how she needed a cup of tea; but even the tea tent was closed. She sat down at her folding table and began composing another letter home.
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Apologies for the delay, the cat goddess was at her birthday party

Haji (Hart) has been most foully murdered. He was both a mason and the miller.

Nominations open.

Since we've now hit the weekend, nominations/defence will probably run until about Tuesday night.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
Does this mean Eli is both a Mason and stupid?

It wouldn't be a surprise of course. The Masons admit just anyone in their ranks these days. That's why nobody takes them seriously at the gatherings of our Cult.

Was Eli extremely unlucky in his choice of McBride, or is he really guilty and the local imam didn't bother to say?

Pff.... Imams, Masons, a curse to both their houses!

[ 30. October 2010, 09:04: Message edited by: El Greco ]
 

---

Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
"Eli Abrahams" wrote Lady Bernardine, "is no doubt quite capable of explaining away everything in his favour; but actions speak louder than words, and his actions have been destructive. I am resolute in my nomination."
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Seth felt dupped. Eli had a captive audience and now two innocent people were dead. He had better show up soon for some kind of explanation. Were the guardians sacrificing one of their own? What the hell was going on? Did a miller look at another miller and see a guilty person? Seth sat and waited as his camels groans travelled out over the desert sands.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
I think now might be the right time for the Masons to speak.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Warning: longest post of my life.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banner Lady:
"Eli Abrahams" wrote Lady Bernardine, "is no doubt quite capable of explaining away everything in his favour; but actions speak louder than words, and his actions have been destructive. I am resolute in my nomination."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Greco:
Does this mean Eli is both a Mason and stupid?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
Hart seemed independently have come to a similar conclusion re Eli Abrahams as he had

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart:
Given the choice between McBride, Eli and no lynching and no additional arguments beyond what have already been offered, I'd vote McBride.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I am persuaded by Eli Abraham's (Eliab's) reasoning nominating Professor McBride (Imaginary Friend),

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
the nomination of Miss Hyacinth Smudgeson (Smudgie) is an interesting one. Is voting last an inconspicuous enough place for the Mafia to hide out?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banner Lady:
I strongly suspect that he is a defector as well as a mason,

---

Arsène originally had thought that such cumulative identities were not possible but Haji's being miller and mason proved otherwise.

Eli's new reasonings for lynchings are unconvincing.

But killing a certified mason on the pure suspicion of double identity as defector?

Arsène makes his way to the worship tent and appeals to the Divine Cat for a rule clarification. A combination of miller and mason is one thing but a combination of mason (defined as innocent) and defector (defined as either innocent or guilty) seems somewhat self-contradictory. The other mason(s) could not fully i.e. always be assured of their comrade's innocence, rendering the notion of masonic lodges meaningless.

So: Do the rules even allow such a combination of mason and defector?
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Amun-Rouge-Ra knows her own mind.

Unfortunately she is inscrutable to mere mortals.


 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Gentlemen and Lady,

If I were a Masonic defector, at this point I'd play for the Camp for a clear win.

I would know for certain that three people are innocent (myself, Smudgeson, and whoever I'd investigated on the first night). I think I can clear Tavish as well. I would know whether the person I'd investigated last night were innocent or guilty. Say, five known or likely innocents. If the rest of you manage not to murder anyone I can vouch for, then the cultists can kill at most one of my team per night. If the doctor keeps doing his job, it won't be me. And each night, I either clear someone else or expose a cultist. As long as I'm exposing cultists, we're happy. As soon as I clear another innocent, we're ecstatic, because then we're the majority, and we can't fail.

Essentially, I'd be a detective who can't be fooled by the miller (not being a real cultist the miller gives me no option to join them) or the defector (because it would be me) and who starts with two 'free' checks on innocents. Madoc is quite right that, if I were to switch sides, the odds are still good that I could win it for the cultists, but I'll take 'certain' over 'probable' any day.

Unfortunately, and to my lasting regret, I'm not a defector. None of you need worry about the possibility, though, because if I were I'd still be on the right side.


It should be worth noting, of course, that if someone else is the defector, and they haven't switched yet, they could still do exactly what I've said that I would do in their shoes, and (depending on who precisely they've checked out and whether the known innocents are still alive) either present us with a victory now or the certain prospect of one very soon. As soon as they can say for sure that any two of Dai, Arsene, Papagena, Andrew, Rose, Seth, Madoc or Bernardine are innocent, plus themseles, of course, we have this tent well and truly pegged. If they can clear even one other person, we would have to work very hard indeed to lose.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Smudgie:
Thinking about it, she realised that he also had most to gain from his father's death

---

quote:

---

My observation is this. When Haji and Tavish voted, McBride had six votes. Rose was already safe, so it was him or no one. Voting for him was inconspicuous - there would be nothing suspicious in following a lead of six others, most of whom would be innocent. So if Haji or Tavish were cultists, and McBride not, they'd have sunk him. Or tried to. Much much better for them to see him dead than risk a vigilante taking a shot in the dark.

So it seems to be that if we lynch McBride AND he's guilty, we will have done well.

But if we lynch him and he's innocent, what we get in exchange for him is a pretty good indication that Haji and Tavish are innocent too, and (less certainly, but worth thinking about) we get a good lead on where the guilty ‘no lynchers' are. We slice the pool from seven to four. That's worth doing. It's a good deal. It's certainly better than any other random guess.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Gentlemen and Lady,

If I were a Masonic defector, at this point I'd play for the Camp for a clear win.

---

Really? Not for a second does Arsène believe you're that boring!
Even if the odds where better for the camp (as you claim on the basis of shaky mathsematical constructions). The fun of playing Guardian is superior to the alternative and increased by having defected. It would allow one to switch sides and see with just how much deception one can get away with.
And joining this expedition is about fun even more than about winning, innit?

Of course if Eli could be mason and defector, so could Miss Smudgeson... whom I supected earlier.

The problem with nominating either of them is that we know already for sure that they're masons and there is only a 1 in [how many players are actually still alive?] chance of either of them being the defector as well (plus the rules are unclear whether this is even possible). That is just guesswork.

If they turn out to be just masons we have not gained any additional information.

It is no good lynching a certified mason. Our leaving them alone is the only benefit we have from their existence.

And if there is indeed a combined mason-defector (and other combined roles) in the camp we'll have to accept this as tough luck. For it would mean we are thrown back to mostly guessing anyway.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
I agree with Arsène. If Tavish isn't a Mason, I don't think we can clear him just because Eli says so. Eli's reasoning is far from being flawless.

And why on earth didn't Haji confirm Eli was a Mason before he died??? Haji, may the Great Ra puke your intestines!
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
Especially with the detective gone the only way to get Guardians to behave revealingly is when one of them is suspected or accused. Hence it must be better to accuse different people rather than completely clearing any of them so early in the game on the grounds of speculation.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Greco:
And why on earth didn't Haji confirm Eli was a Mason before he died???

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Smudgie:
.... She was too shocked at the death of her fellow mason, Haji. With the Imam dead and herself and Eli Abrahams accused of his murder, the lodge was looking decidedly at risk,

---

Either she, Haji and Eli are the 3 masons which Eli and Haji "guessed" at there being (as Eli pointed out earlier) ,

or she and Eli are in this together, pretending to be masons, and none of the other masons are backing them up.

[ 02. November 2010, 14:51: Message edited by: Wet Kipper ]
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Gentlemen and Lady,

If I were a Masonic defector, at this point I'd play for the Camp for a clear win.

---

Really? Not for a second does Arsène believe you're that boring!
Even if the odds where better for the camp (as you claim on the basis of shaky mathsematical constructions). The fun of playing Guardian is superior to the alternative and increased by having defected. It would allow one to switch sides and see with just how much deception one can get away with.
And joining this expedition is about fun even more than about winning, innit?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Greco:
I meant in his death scene. Couldn't he have said he, eli and someone else were masons?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge, Amun-Rouge-Ra, Most Illustrious And Revered Red Cat Goddess, Ruler Of Our Fates, Guider Of Our Destinies, All Hail!:
Also no revealing of information in death scenes. If you are among the unlucky ones who don’t survive the duration, whatever you know will have to go with you to the grave, I’m afraid.

---

quote:

---

And why do you think Smudgie is innocent?

---

For the same reason I think Eliab is: because falsely claiming to be a Mason is too high risk a strategy for a Guardian, and too stupid a strategy for a Citizen.

I suppose somebody could be a Defector as well, but I'm not sure we have much defense against that.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Come on. Guardians pretending to be masons would be suicide. Especially since we know there are real masons (as I said, the role would not make sense if there had only been the one). The real masons would already have made that public.

Btw. if Miss Smudgeson had the bad luck to be mason *and* defector (I'd venture to conject it is unlikely that this silly combination is allowed by the rules of our Inscrutable Divine Cat who, alas, is a silent non-oracle on this matter) we need not worry. I know her, Miss Smudgeson is a sweet-souled tea lady. If she had the bad luck of being a defector she'll die or give herself up from sheer terror.

Btw: This is a public message to the defector.
If you decide to stick with us - this being by definition the moment when you have discovered a Guardian (i.e. when you have to decide), by all means make the information public and let us lynch the rascal (is there also a feminine form of rascal? A rascaless perhaps) !
As I understand (or rather guess) it you are not another detective, i.e. after you found the first Guardian you lose the right to check one player per night. Hence make the information public asap! It may not even mean sacrificing yourself, since afterwards you are just an ordinary citizen and the Mafia have no special reason to go after you.
Should you by contrast NOT lose the right to investigate by night, we could check your accusation and then call on the doctor to protect you the following night.
All this of course only if you are not a scheming, devious, treachourous bit of a bad person who will defect just because defecting is more fun than winning.

Someone correct me if that piece of unrequested advice is not as obviously good as I think.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Gentlemen and Lady,

---

Why If you are only talking to Lady Bernardine, why the "gentlemen"? If you mean to address us all, why only one "Lady"?
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
If you are only talking to Lady Bernardine, why the "gentlemen"? If you mean to address us all, why only one "Lady"?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sylvander:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Eliab:
[qb] Gentlemen and Lady,
A reputation for tactical thought and perceptiveness would serve me better in my next life than a reputation for outright duplicity.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
Come on. Guardians pretending to be masons would be suicide. Especially since we know there are real masons (as I said, the role would not make sense if there had only been the one). The real masons would already have made that public.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
Of course if Eli could be mason and defector, so could Miss Smudgeson... whom I supected earlier.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Greco:
Let's say I make a public announcement that I am a Mason and Eli isn't. Eli might indeed be a mobster pretending to be a Mason, but it's also possible that I'm a mobster trying to get Eli lynched and win one round in favor of the mafia, especially if you were getting suspicious about my role...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
[cross-posted with lots of people. That was in reply to Andrew "The Greek" Whisker.]

---

Egyptian! I'm Egyptian! EGYPTIAN!

See? Here's my family tree: My great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great -great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather was a worker in Pharaoh Paf's mines!

I'm as Egyptian as it goes!

[ 02. November 2010, 16:47: Message edited by: El Greco ]
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Looking at the list of nominess (Lady Bernardine (Banner Lady), Eli Abrahams (Eliab), and Andrew Whisker (El Greco)), what we should be debating is whether we should vote to lynch Lady B or young Whisker.

---

Well, I know I'm innocent. I also know that Lady B looks suspicious to me. I agree that it might be a good idea to leave out Eli. After all, he worked hard to publish all those pamphlets

If only me and Lady B appear to you to be the only viable candidates, then a) either Lady B is also innocent, in which case we will be voting against an innocent, or b) Lady B is mafia, in which case the other mobsters might help her by voting and spilling bile against me, which will result in another innocent getting lynched without fully exposing a mobster. After all the mafia could make it appear as if Lady B is guilty so that the community lynch two innocents in two subsequent rounds!

I think it's prudent to have more candidates to choose from. And because I find Seth's (christian fletcher) silence suspicious, I nominate him. At least we won't have too narrow a selection of choices to choose from!
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Rose looked up in shock from her calculations. A Guardian must be found today! If another innocent were lynched, and the Guardians killed someone again tonight, the camp would be down to six people tomorrow. If three of those were Guardians, the innocents would not be able to muster the requisite majority to ever lynch a Guardian.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Rose's shriek had brought the camp running. She looked down at her calculations again, and turned bright red. "Sorry, I was all wrong. We'll still have 9 alive in the camp tomorrow."

She ducked quickly back through the flap of her tent and drew her most dogeared textbook out from under her bed: Remedial Counting.
 

---

Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
Rraaw. Would it not be 10 still alive, if one is lynched?

EG Andrew
CT Papagena
AA Lt. Madoc
D Dai
E Eli Abrams
FC Seth
WK Tavish
BL Lady Bernadine
AR Rose A
Sy Arsene
Sm Ms. Smudgeson
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
10 alive this evening after our daily round of lynching, but I assume the Guardians will succeed in killing an innocent tonight, leaving 9 alive for the next round of nominations and voting.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
I suggest we indicate our most urgent suspicions here. A sort of dry run for the real vote.
Why?
Since for technical reasons we have to vote in succession the guardians could, by voting early, steer us in one direction which might force the late voters to follow the trend rather than go by their conviction. It is vital that we lynch someone as the Guardians are unlikely to commit suicide.

Andrew Whisker's (El Greco) nomination of Seth could be just a means of saving his own skin - the more nominees the hihger the likelihood of a no-lynch vote. It could also make sense - silence looks suspicious, I agree. But McBride was nominated (partly) for being silent, too. Silence alone is not enough if we have better reasons for suspicion.

Let's go back to nominations. Eli took the trouble of counting votes on day 1.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Seven people voted not to lynch on the first day. McBride and Haji are dead, and innocent. McCallum (almost certainly) and Smudgeson (certainly) are also innocent. If (as I think likely) at least one cultist is amonst the remainder, we have Lady Bernardine, Papagena, and Arsène Beauregard as lead suspects.

---

• Eli Abrahams (Eliab), nominated by Lady Bernadine (Banner Lady)
• Lady Bernadine (Banner Lady), nominated by Eli Abrahams (Eliab)
• Andrew (El Greco), nominated by Hyacinth Smudgeson (Smudgie)
• Mr Seth (fletcher christian), nominated by Andrew (El Greco)
• No lynching
• ETA x-posted - since I'm feeling generous, Papagena, (CuppaT), nominated by Arsène Beauregard (Sylvander)

With 11 people still alive, 6 votes are required to secure a lynching.

Time for the oracle to go to bed

[ 02. November 2010, 22:51: Message edited by: la vie en rouge ]
 

---

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
Lieutenant Madoc passed a note to the private outside his tent; ever since the incident with Rose in the tea tent, he'd been too ashamed to be seen in public.
" Oh Wise Red Cat Oracle, one of us, your humble supplicants, has been insufficiently clear in our nominations for the firing squad; M. Beauregard nominated Miss Smudgeson in an earlier speech."
 

---

Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
Papagena figures she has probably been inspected early on, and found to be a lowly citizen worth ignoring for the time being. Bigger fish to catch, so to speak. But she has her suspicions about the guilty ones. As to silence, that is not the case; she has spoken fairly often. Just because one does not speak volumes, does not mean one is guilty.
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
Lieutenant Madoc passed a note to the private outside his tent; ever since the incident with Rose in the tea tent, he'd been too ashamed to be seen in public.
" Oh Wise Red Cat Oracle, one of us, your humble supplicants, has been insufficiently clear in our nominations for the firing squad; M. Beauregard nominated Miss Smudgeson in an earlier speech."

---

quote:

---

• Eli Abrahams (Eliab), nominated by Lady Bernardine (Banner Lady)

  ---

quote:

---

Lady Bernardine (Banner Lady), nominated by Eli Abrahams (Eliab)

---

quote:

---

Andrew (El Greco), nominated by Hyacinth Smudgeson (Smudgie)

---

quote:

---

Mr Seth (fletcher christian), nominated by Andrew (El Greco)

---

quote:

---

Papagena, (CuppaT), nominated by Arsène Beauregard (Sylvander)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
At 5-1 it hardly matters any more, Arsène trusts the sixth vote will be forthcoming. .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eli Abrahams:
3. Be alert. (Camp Sarastro, as your English humour charmingly puts it, has a requirement for lerts)

We’ll spot the Cultists best when their interests diverge from ours. When they do something irrational, foolish and inexplicable on any hypothesis but guilt, we’ll have them. Of course, this presupposes that it isn’t just a simple innocent being thoughtless. So don’t be thoughtless. Consider your actions carefully, Otherwise, you’ll get lynched for making a silly mistake, and it’ll be your own fault, but that won’t make the rest of us feel a great deal better.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
(just in case I don't survive the night

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Seth was no longer sure Eli was who he said he was

---

quote:

---

can someone point out where on this thread smudgie has said her character is also a mason?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
That said, I'm coming to the conclusion that […] Arsène might be the defector - he's too lazy even to count votes, but he's thought carefully about the details of the defector's abilities? Who's the one person who doesn't have a serious stake in who gets lynched in the first couple of days, but who definitely wants to know what the defector can do?

---

Yep, I am lazy re counting of votes and stuff, at least as long as others are alive who will do it and others again who make tables of past behavioral patterns. That is why we are a team. Surely one does not get lynched for laziness
Let us assume I am the defector and were unclear about the rules (e.g. whether he retains his spying eye by night once he found a crook but decided to stick with the camp), why on earth would I ask in public?
a) A public question might lead to an answer from the Gods. But a simple PM to the Divine Cat would surely give me one - after all she may like being foggy in public, but a player needs to have clarity about his role.
b) A public answer would give everybody incl. Guardians the knowledge whereas it would be much more advantageous for the defector to have it to himself. So long as he hasn’t decided which side he is on he is not going to be very team-oriented, is he?
So: I cannot see any reason why the defector would ask rule clarifications in public. This is so obvious that I am sure you have thought of it, too. I am led conclude that you consciously made a claim that does not add up.
Let me look at your other arguments.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Now if I'm right, and Arsène has already switched, he knows if Papagena is guilty or not. And in a vote like this one, if she is guilty he could nominate her for cover, or even with the intent of sacrificing her to prove his good faith with us.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
If he hasn't switched (or I'm wrong and he's a simple innocent) then he would nominate her regardless, because if either or both of Bernardine and Papagena are guilty, there's no reason to think that the last member of my suspect pool is too.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
So lynching Papagena wouldn't tell me much about Arsène.

---

Uh? Your “logic” is weird I cannot follow it. Only if one follows your first unconvincing argument that I could nominate her for cover or even as a sacrifice would lynnching her not tell you much. As just explained I do not think such action would be good strategy for the Guardians.

Summing up: Eli makes more unconvincing claims and suggestions. These are dangerous for the camp. Should I nominate him for lynching? Yep, I could guess he does so for sinister motives, i.e. he is a) Guardian or b) defector. But

a) Presupposes that he and Smudgeson both impersonate a mason AND the real masons shut up about it. Unthinkable.

b) Presupposes

b 1: that there is a defector – which we don’t know, and

b 2: That mason and defector can go together. As I said before this would be a silly design. I therefore stick by my decision to discard the notion.

So I think Eli is not guilty, only illogical. Do not assume a conspiracy where simple human mistakes suffice to explain (I think Churchill said this more elegantly). And of course he suggested early on that Tavish (Wet Kipper) was innocent, so he got that one right.

Who might be guilty then?
Does Tavish’s death tell us something? He spoke little and I can’t see much info in it (others might read more carefully). We know that his brain hurt, he was after the lassies and did not have a Scottish accent.
With nothing new emerging I repeat that I am suspicious of Papagena. For the same reasons I gave before.
Unfortunately Eli suspects or suspected her, too, which makes her look a bit more innocent again.
 

---

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Miss Smudgeson curses herself for having disregarded her own gut instincts (surely a woman of her standing should not admit to having such things) and followed the trend in voting for Lady B, though she had to admit that the poor old lady who suffered such an undignified death had indeed acted extremely suspiciously. Still, one should not condemn someone purely because their brain was addled. No, she should have stuck with her instinct and voted for Andrew Whisker. She had her suspicions about several of the camp - one other in particular - but knowing two people to be innocent did help her deliberations considerably.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Smudgie:
She had her suspicions about several of the camp - one other in particular - but knowing two people to be innocent did help her deliberations considerably.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by El Greco:


My list of suspects contains Rose, Papagena and Seth. I think there are at least two mobsters in there.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Why me? Why Seth? Why do you think at least two of us three are Guardians? I agree that Papagena by her quietness is suspicious.

---

That's what the Oracle said. R, S, P. But I didn't hear well one letter, so I got at least two right.

What, you don't like my reason for thinking you are suspicious? Well, it's as good a reason as any other. Being a member of the mafia is not an issue of logic and argumentation. If you think it is, just take a look at all those innocent we lynched, thinking we were following reasonable arguments against them.

The arguments that have been made, or the ones that can be made, for that matter, might all be plausible, but there is no logic behind them dictating they are actually true.

In times of distress, such as these, you might choose to follow words that sound nice to the ear, but lack the irrefutable logic that dictates what's true and what's not, but I choose to pay heed to the dreadful words of the Oracle. And She has spoken. R, S, and P, or something like that!

[ 06. November 2010, 13:25: Message edited by: El Greco ]
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Arsène had been for a long run along the Rhi..., the Nile . All the time an intriguing wee tune was running along in his otherwise empty head ...

Pa! Pa! Pa! Pa!
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-paaaaaaa!
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-paaaaaaa!
Pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pagena!!

When he was under the shower he let the tune flow from his head to his lips. The camp shuddered.
 

---

Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
Y'all keep saying that I am quiet, but if you look, you will find that I speak just as much as most. Only a few campers talk more frequently than I, but many use a lot more words, i.e. longer posts. To be clueless is not a crime. To try to watch everyone, and get lost now and then as to where we are in the process, does not mean I am a murderous cat, merely a fairly simple minded citizen cat of the desert. I do agree that unless the Masons have lied about who they are, there is not much logic in this particular scenario, just blind unluck.
 

---

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
It's like this, Cat. You may be raising a paw or cocking an ear, but saying that you're paying attention doesn't add to the discussion or aid us in catching our cultists; simply listening, though, is what any good infiltrator would do. If I were a Guardian, my first objective in discussion would be to gather as much information as possible about my enemy's plans, then, if at all possible, keep from aiding them with any useful suggestions. At no time should I give advice so bad it drew the ire of my fellows down on my head; were Eli not a Mason, I'm sure we would have lynched him by now, just to be rid of his bad advice!
Come to think of it, that may not be a bad idea. Why didn't I think of it earlier, when we didn't need him and his foolish tongue so badly for the sake of our survival?
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Some important points:

First - it wasn't a mistake to lynch Lady Bernardine. Or, rather, it wasn't our mistake. She had nominated a known innocent. Not merely someone who turned out to be innocent, but someone who was obviously innocent. If we weren't going to react to that, what would we react to?

The Name alone knows why she did it. She seemed pretty astute to me. But she did. She did something that only made sense if she was guilty, and we did exactly the right thing on the evidence. Unfortunately, her bad judgement has cost us a day and two lives.

Second, I was right about Tavish. Which means that my analysis of the first day's votes looks sound.

Third, if we have three cultists and a defector, then (unless we are lucky with a veteren or a doctor) we MUST get it right today.


My best guess at this point is Lt Madoc. Two reasons: he dropped a subtle hint to Lady Bernardine that encouraged her in her self destructive mistake, and he nominated Rose Autenrieth on the first day. Now that was a supposed to be a pure guess - but why, for a pure guess, would anyone smart (and Madoc is smart) pick Rose? If she's innocent (as, on the odds, she probably was for all we then knew), she's an asset, because she's a thinker. True, she's also very very hard to read, and the prospect of her being a cultist scares me a lot, but I'd take the chance of having her mind on our side rather than risk killing her off on spec.

I'd also bet (at good odds) a (modest) amount on Arsène being the defector, if there is one.

If there's one more space for the guilty, then it's a coin toss between Andrew Whisker and Papagena. Both have behaved oddly. Deliberately so. Which makes me think that they are trying for some reaction to achieve something. Thus they are either guilty, or (and this is the kicker) they are the doctor and trying to arouse just enough suspicion that the cultists leave them alone, but not so much as to be lynched.

Seth's my outside chance at the moment, if any of those are wrong.

So at this point I'd lynch Madoc. But I'm not going to risk splitting the vote. Whisker or Papagena would be better than no one. If anyone is inclined to share that suspicion, I'll nominate and vote, but not if it'll just put another name up and risk a hung vote.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Rose turned as pink as her name from Eli's unexpected praise.  

I'm not inclined to suspect Lt. Madoc.  Though my principle of not suspecting those who reason the most could be faulty.   (However, I haven't really grappled with the possibility of a defector.)  

I suspect Dai Mortal, as someone who has been flying under the radar (to coin a phrase about two as-yet-uninvented technologies).  He's someone who by personality I would expect to be in there reasoning it out with the rest of us, but instead he's been quietly inconspicuous.  I've suspected him from the first round.

Papagena I could imagine being by nature a watcher, and hence innocent, (but I could also imagine her as a Guardian taking us all in with her innocent "I've had nothing to say yet" act).

Andrew Whisker I think enjoys being erratic, which makes it very hard to decide if he's innocent or guilty!

Like Eli, I'd like to hear others' thoughts on my suspicions before making the plunge of a nomination.

[ 07. November 2010, 01:10: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
...Lt. Madoc.  ... (However, I haven't really grappled with the possibility of a defector.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I suspect Dai Mortal, as someone who has been flying under the radar.  He's someone who by personality I would expect to be in there reasoning it out with the rest of us, but instead he's been quietly inconspicuous.

---

quote:

---

So our chance of getting a mason by voting for Papagena or Beauregarde is better than 1/2. (11/17 to be precise.)
I certainly wouldn't lynch Madoc or Rose at this point - the chance of each individually being a guardian in group A is less than 1/2. (Actually, 7/17.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
First - it wasn't a mistake to lynch Lady Bernardine. She had nominated a known innocent. Not merely someone who turned out to be innocent, but someone who was obviously innocent. If we weren't going to react to that, what would we react to?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Some important points:
Second, I was right about Tavish. Which means that my analysis of the first day's votes looks sound.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Rose turned as pink as her name from Eli's unexpected praise.

---

Good grief! Don't tell me you'll fall for that kind of flattery . Check Eli's reasoning, not your image in the mirror, please!
But if it helps: you are stunningly beautiful, mind-boggingly intelligent and the greatest conversationist since the invention of the tongue You really are! Unfortunately this is all irrelevant in assessing the accusations on the table.
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
In your group C, surely you meant "guardian" and not "mason"?

---

quote:

---

How did you come up with your numerical probabilities?

---

quote:

---

Seth who? In the Bible Seth was a good little boy.

---

Exactly.
My nominations record speaks for itself. I've trusted Eli (albeit cautiously), but he's certainly led us down a few dead ends of late (if you'll pardon the pun). I've tried to be fairly reasonable about my choices and I've even changed my mind on Hayacinth once it became clear to me that she was a mason; which pretty much proves I'm an innocent (I think).
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
A so-called *spit* Guardian *spit* could do the same to avoid suspicion while helping get innocent people lynched.

Behold! The ugly face of the beast!

[ 08. November 2010, 14:26: Message edited by: El Greco ]
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Granted there is a slight resemblance, but not such a tiny waist. But I am innocent. A man cannot be judged on the fact he is ugly!
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Let me recap the reasons Eli gave to support our course so far, since some people seem to be confused about them.

We voted for McBride not because we thought that he was guilty, but because we thought we would learn something either way. We did learn that both Haji and McCallum were innocent. The guardians targeted them both - but that means that they didn't target the doctor and they've only targeted one of the three masons. We still know that there are two innocents. That's quite a strong advantage to have.
We voted for Lady Bernadine because she was in what I called group C earlier - a group that we have strong reason to believe has at least one guardian in it. It maybe that we ought to have gone for Beauregarde or Papagena rather than Bernadine on the evidence. I'm not sure. However, it makes it more likely that we'll catch a guardian this turn.

The question is then whether to go for Beauregarde or Papagena first. At the moment, only Papagena's been nominated, by Beauregarde himself. I'm not sure that we should be making the decision solely on the judgement of one of the targets. Does anyone else have an opinion as to which one seems more suspicious? I'd be particularly interested in Smudgeson's opinion; we know Smudgeson's not guilty and Beauregarde hasn't been criticising her.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
It is Beauregard, hear, not Beauregarde!
I refuse to be lynched under a false name!
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
OK, it's Bureaucrat, not Avant-garde. Noted. What do you mean I misheard again?

[ 08. November 2010, 15:46: Message edited by: El Greco ]
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
My sincere apologies to M. Beauregard.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 
Andrew had another vision. He was in the Throne Room again, but this time it was empty. And suddenly a voice spoke from the Great Throne That Sparkles Every 7777 Years.

"Come to me..." the dreadful voice whispered.

"Come to me..."

[ 08. November 2010, 19:18: Message edited by: El Greco ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
It was not because of his flattery that Rose thought Beauregard to be a Citizen, but because of his reasoning.

I'm inclined to lynch Andrew Whisker. If he's guilty that will be good, plus it will suggest that Seth is innocent. If he's innocent then it will leave the way open to still suspect Seth on a later round.

(crossposted. Of course, if we lynch Whisker we may never find out what his vision of the throne room means.)

[ 08. November 2010, 19:26: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I'm inclined to lynch Andrew Whisker. If he's guilty that will be good, plus it will suggest that Seth is innocent. If he's innocent then it will leave the way open to still suspect Seth on a later round.

---

How naive of you to assume life will continue if you lynch the high-priest of the Great Ra. How naive...

[ETA:] Last time a high priest of the Great One was brutally murdered by the people, Noah was finishing his arc. Just so that you know. It's in every serious textbook of egyptology...

[ 08. November 2010, 19:31: Message edited by: El Greco ]
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
It was not because of his flattery that Rose thought Beauregard to be a Citizen, but because of his reasoning.

---

Ah.
Aaaah! I like gals with a sense of humour.
May I take the opportunity to declare that when I said your beauty, intelligence and eloquence were irrelevant for assessing guilt, I ommitted to say that they were by no means wasted on one appreciative French soul ...
Would Mademoiselle be free for a starlight walk in the dunes this evening? I think there are some behind the camp to this side. And that. And that. And that side, too, it would seem. You choose.
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
I think there are some behind the camp to this side. And that. And that. And that side, too, it would seem. You choose.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
At this point, my friends, we cannot afford another misstep, especially if there is a defector in our midst.

---

• Andrew Whisker (El Greco), nominated by Hyacinth Smudgeson (Smudgie)
• Papagena (CuppaT), nominated by Arsène Beauregarde (Sylvander)
• Mr Seth (fletcher christian), nominated by Andrew Whisker (El Greco)
• Arsène Beauregarde (Sylvander), nominated by Eli Abrahams (Eliab)
• no lynching

Five votes are required for a lynching.
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Seth couldn't quite understand Whisker's frankly mad request. If he was innocent, then why was he asking people to vote to lynch him? That didn't make any sense; but then little Whisker's said made much sense of late! Why would someone who claimed to be an innocent put themselves in harms way at such an important juncture in the game?
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Well, if Eli's prepared to back me up, I'll vote for Arsene Beauregard. It's him or Papagena, and I like cats.
 

---

Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
Maroow. Happily complying, the black cat votes for the false priest Andrew.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Rose shakes sand out of her shoes, takes a sip of tea, and votes to lynch Andrew Whisker (El Greco).
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Oh, surprise, a very very late nomination by the one player who always advocates how important it is to get a lynching done!
Eli does not even try to pretend he can substantiate his suspicion of me and point at a single inconsistency in my reasonings. Simple, there are none. It is an easy game to play when you are innocent.
Ah well. Seeing the votes up to now it looks like Eli's simple see-through tactics might work - the vote will be split and no lynching will happen.
Papagena
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Right - Beauregard has just tried to split the vote. Assuming Papagena is guilty, if any two of Madoc, Seth and Andrew are guilty*, we can't get her. And if he believed his nonsense about me trying to hang the vote, he'd know that by voting for a new nominee, he'd just made it more likely that I'd succeed. His vote is plainly a destructive one.

That's good enough for me. I think Arsene is guilty.

The trouble is, if any two of Madoc, Seth or Andrew are guilty, they can save him. Neither Hyacinth or I should vote until they have done so.

Of course, that probably means Andrew is guilty, too, because Arsene's actions do make sense as an attempt to shield him.

So Andrew should vote first (since he's not going to vote for himself). If he's prepared to vote for Arsene (or Papagena), we then have options and can see how the two remaining suspects vote. And the two known innocents should then agree on who we should lynch.

[*editted to add - if Arsene was innocent I think two of them must be guilty]

[ 10. November 2010, 00:07: Message edited by: Eliab ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
OK, Eli, you've convinced me, Arsene looks guilty as hell. But his vote only makes sense if Andrew is also guilty. To lynch Andrew, you just need one of Seth or Madoc to vote with you and Miss Smudgeson. But if you hold out to see if you can get two votes out of Seth/Madoc/Andrew for Arsene or Papagena, you give the Guardians (if two out of those three are Guardians) the chance to gang up and ensure the lynching of a potentially innocent Papagena. So I think you should go ahead and vote to lynch Andrew.

I'm not saying this because I voted for Andrew, but because it's what makes sense to me given the votes so far and the potential votes still available. At this point it looks to me like getting either Arsene or Andrew is equally good.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
That is, getting either Arsene or Andrew would be an equally good outcome. But I think one of those (Andrew) Is a more likely achievable goal.
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
I mostly agree, Rose, but it's Andrew's vote that I want to see: if he is guilty, and either Seth or Madoc do not believe that (or pretend not to believe it) I don't want his vote coming in as an 'unexpected' spoiler. Let's see what he does. Seth and Madoc are both smart enough to count the votes: if either puts a suspect in the clear, we learn something.

I imagine that Hyacinth is going to vote for Andrew if he's lynchable and no one else is. It'll do no harm to have another option, though. A guilty coalition of all three of Andrew, Seth and Madoc could always hang this vote, but to do that, all three need to be blatant about it (if Andrew votes first). I don't think they'll do that - because we might get lucky with the doctor's aid tonight and then we'll have them. So I don't want to give them the opportunity (if they are all guilty) to spoil the vote by anything other than out-and-out combined obstruction.

Let's see Andrew's vote. Then the others. Then the Masons.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Lest others fall for Eli:
I have by no means split the vote but simply voted for whom I nominated - knowing that there are sufficient votes out there to lynch her. We still can achieve this.

I think it is obvious that it's Eli who tries to split the vote by making a fourth(!) nomination at the last minute. On a day with only nine people standing this number of nominees is hugely increasing the likelihood of a hung vote and save Papagena.

This late nomination from someone who always stressed how important it is to lynch and gain information rather than be inactive?!
From someone who only yesterday claimed to suspect Papagena as suspect number 2 himself (we lynched his innocent nominee Lady B. instead)?
But who does not now want to vote for Papagena when he has the chance? Who made no attempt to explain this inconsistency? Who has put forward two people for lynching who turned out to be innocent?

Ok, I'd obviously be willing to die (I am an ordinary citizen, so we could strike at more harmful targets like the doctor) if the information gained would make my team win.

But with so few people left and all Guardians still alive lynching me will probably lose the game for the citizen's camp next day.
There may be a stroke of luck with the doctor protecting the right citizen.

In that lucky case: If I die you can still benefit from the information gained by my death and lynch Eli tomorrow and Papagena the following day.

Better to lynch Papagena today and Eli tomorrow.
It is up to the last voters.

PS: I don't know how to link to individual posts. So here is where Eli said he was suspicious of Papagena (on page 5):

# Papagena, (CuppaT), nominated by Arsène Beauregard (Sylvander)
I'm pretty suspicious of Papagena, ...
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 

quote:

---

That's good enough for me. I think Arsene is guilty.

The trouble is, if any two of Madoc, Seth or Andrew are guilty, they can save him. Neither Hyacinth or I should vote until they have done so.

---

quote:

---

Any of the following may be in play

---

Could this be the first mafia game with no mafia, leaving us all to kill each other?
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Eli has been so wrong in the past, that he has to get at least one right....doesn't he?

---

If his intentions were good his guesses like anybody's would hit the target sooner or later, that is true. But they are not guesses.

quote:

---

Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I think it's daft to say Papagena is guilty based on her silent watching.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I know that I'm a Citizen. So either there is no Defector, or Arsene is wrong at least in part about who the guilty are.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Or Arsene is guilty, and probably seeking to protect a guilty Andrew. (Any other possibilities for Arsene?)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CuppaT:
I think BL just made a mistake by nominating a Mason. That early on some of us didn't fully understand the roles as much as we do when it is being played out. We still have the vigilante and the veteran to worry about, too. Look out for who wants a hung vote because that may be the vigilante wanting to get a chance to play his role.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Bah, I thought this reasoning would lead me to some deep insight, but no such luck.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
So when Arsene voted, he was in effect proposing (or hoping) that out of Seth/Madoc/Andrew/Eli/Smudgeson, only one was a Guardian or Defector. Which means he was in effect proposing/hoping that at least one of either Dai Mortal or me is a Guardian or Defector. If he truly believes there is a Defector, then he's proposing/hoping that both Dai Mortal and me are Guardians or Defectors (along with Papagena).[/i]

---

Will you think very badly of me if I say that I do not generally approach games with such academic rigour ? I would not speculate like that as I do not think it works that way.
Why? Partly because such speculation rests on too many unknowns - and if one followed the reasoning then the first one or two voters (Guardian?) would effectively determine the outcome. The longer the game lasts the likelier a Guardian or other will be forced to lynch one of their own if voting differently would look too suspicious. So the identity of the late birds is not so important.

And now I am holding my breath for the revelation who Andrew really was. The Divine Cat is still sleeping it appears.
His letter was not helpful. As far as I could make out it said that he wishes as his gravestone engraving:

Here rest in peace I do
I'd rather it were you!
 

---

Posted by El Greco (# 9313) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
As far as I could make out it said that he wishes as his gravestone engraving:

Here rest in peace I do
I'd rather it were you!

---

This is hilarious!

+++++ Doctor Andrew Whisker was a Citizen.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Oh hell. Rose burst out with a stream of four-letter words.: Pear. Lime. Blue. Grey. Pink. Road.

OK, I retract my suspicion of you, Arsene. So that puts the Guardians as at least three of Dai, Seth, Papagena, and Madoc. If there's a defected defector, we're doomed. So let's hope there's not a defector. So it illustrates that I was right in my suspicions that the Guardians are the quiet ones. On that basis I'd guess Madoc to be the innocent odd man out.

Drat, darn, piss, and tarnation. I should have voted for Papagena. I was taken in by her oh-so-innocent manner.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
and if one followed the reasoning then the first one or two voters (Guardian?) would effectively determine the outcome.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
OK, I retract my suspicion of you, Arsene.

---

Why?

I don't know for sure if Papagena is guilty or innocent. And if Arsene isn't a cultist, and we believe his own words, neither did he.

Voting for her, when Arsene did it, was a bad vote. There was next to no chance of getting her. Andrew was the lead candidate from our discussions. For all the innocent voters knew, he could have been a cultist. A spoiler vote was still a spoiler even though he turned out to be guiltless.

If there's four Guardians left, they've now won.

If there are three, then Arsene and Madoc are two of them. The third, I'm guessing at. Maybe Papagena, and Arsene was playing a double bluff. But I also can't shake the suspicion that Rose, who prepared to sacrifice Arsene if necessary, has now seen the chance of a perfect win. Frankly, if she is guilty, she deserves it because she's as sly a snake as it has ever been my pleausre to meet, but I'll deny it to her if I can.

My advice: Arsene first. Then Madoc. Then? Well, three more of us will be dead by then, and that may limit our options. Let's see how it goes.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
I hope this lynching increased my credibility. Just in case night falls and the Guardians get me, my suspicions for the record:

1. Eli - as close to "absolutely sure" as a citizen can get. (Why? His many illogical reasonings, as stated many times above. Andrew is the third innocent we lynched on Eli's advice ... I hope that now at last certain people will cease being awed by him. And of course Lady B., the first who ever nominated him paid with her life – what a coincidence )
Yep, I hate playing on the basis of a flaw in the rules, but nothing explains his behaviour unless he is mason-defector).

2. Papagena - reasonably sure (Why? As stated above)

3. Rose - not sure
Why? She did not answer my invitation for a moonlight walk, grrrr! AND Andrew suspected her AND she was convinced by Eli at a point when I think he was all too obviously off the mark. I suspect she is too intelligent to do so by mistake (seriously, for a change). On the other hand she seemed to be genuinely thinking aloud (much like I do) and correcting herself. Thinking aloud a lot is good for the citizens' camp and risky for Guardians.
But then - I could be absolutely wrong in all my reasonings and what a fool I'd look later.

or
Dafyd - not sure.
Why?
He repeatedly mispelt my name as Beauregarde
He also agrees with Eli often. And because of this pseudo-maths post

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
In your group C, surely you meant "guardian" and not "mason"?

---

oops, yes. I was possibly confusing the guardians with a criminal organisation based in the Mediterranean (Sicily) that also starts with 'ma'.

The number of possibilities in which there are:
i) Two guardians in C; one in B or A: 1*5= 5.
ii) One guardian in C; one in B, one in A: 2*3*2 = 12
iii) One in C; two in
[...] etc.

---

A) A Guardian would know that there is a mason in his own camp and might accidentally make the mistake above. (Could be genuine error, though).

B) These pseudo-maths are usually useless because you don't gain much from (even exact) maths based on very inaccurate figures (i.e. speculative guesses) to start from. But this kind of post, so confusing that nobody checks the details but looking impressive is much in Eli's style when he tries to stun people into believing him while talking rubbish. Why does Dafyd go for this game, now?

That is my little wisdom at this point. Have not thought about Madoc, Seth, Dai much. Why does Rose not mention Dafyd?
We might gain better insights from analysing past voting and arguing patterns based on Andrews' innocence. I don't have time to re-read the thread. I trust Eli the Serpent will come up with something incomprehensible, though. Other contributors welcome!

The most important thing imho now is to get rid of Eli! If he is innocent I advocate running amok randomly as our best option. I at least would feel absolutely clueless.
(Relatively) luckily Andrew was nothing more valuable than a citizen (sorry, old man). That is relatively good for us: If we are lucky the Guardians will hit a wrong target tonight

If there are three Guardians plus a defector then the game is over anyway, innit?

On the other hand, there are five fingers, too.

PS: Arsène won't have internet access from Fri noon to Sunday. The Guardians can't murder people in Nuremberg, can they?

PPS: If the Guardians strike at the veteran – who gets to choose which Guardian dies with him? And what happens if the veteran happens to be protected by the doctor? Does his attacker still die?
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Eli, I return to you the compliment of sly as a snake. I'm hoping that just as I am innocent, you are innocent. But it does not escape my attention that you are now advocating killing off exactly the people I believe are innocent, and you have abandoned your original position that one of Lady B, Whisker, and Papagena were guilty. We've discovered Lady B and Whisker to be Citizens, so why abandon your convictions now? Why not believe Papagena to be guilty?

I'm more convinced by my "the quiet ones are guilty" principle than by your position against talkative Arsene and Madoc.

[cross-posted]

[ 11. November 2010, 14:17: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Rose, I just notice Eli is not just a serpent but a X-poster. And he is throwing suspicion upon you. This in my eyes indicates you are probably innocent.

If I were Eli I'd now try to manipulate you by saying you can "prove" (=increase likelihood) your innocence by voting with me to lynch him tomorrow. But I don't like these manipulative ways - yet still hope you'd be willing to be persuaded that he is the most likely candidate.
If you are not convinced (please explain why, whether there is more in it than his mason status) and nor are the others then I'd go with you for Papagena.

But you just discovered yet another blatant inconsistency in Eli's reasoning (thanks for spotting that one) - how much more proof will you need? He is a player who in the past was known for focussing on a suspect and consistently going after them with all his might. This time he is constantly swaying hither and thither like a drunken monkey.

Main thing is that we all agree on the same candidate tomorrow - because if the game continues at all then we can only have a 1-vote majority left. How does one technically make sure of such an agreement when not everybody is trustworthy and we can only vote one after the other? Sigh.

(There is of course the possibility that Eli and Rose enact a great theatre for our benefit to make sure Rose survives for the Guardians till the end! But I would at present not lynch Rose on that basis. Only draw my hat).
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
If there's four Guardians left, they've now won.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
You know, technically Andrew Whisker hasn't been lynched yet.

---

Brilliant! You are even more cunning than I suspected! Vicious even. Go, show 'em baddies that we can play dirty, too

Who came up with the idea that the defector does not get told who the others are? Would not make sense to me - in what way would he part of their team? He could not deliberate on nightly killings, he would be effectively powerless. He could vaguely feel he won if the Guardians do, but it is not much of a game for him is it?

It is not quite irrelevant in what order we lynch. IF the Guardians hit a veteran and they (rather than the veteran or the Divine Cat) get to choose who in their team ought to die, they'd choose the one whom we most suspected anyway. Personally I'd say that was Eli, so they'd give him up first, I expect.
But we do not need to discuss this now - let's see whom they kill overnight and if they hit the veteran.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
[cross-posted again! Arsene, give me some time to now read and digest your latest post.]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
You know, technically Andrew Whisker hasn't been lynched yet. So Miss Hyacinth Smudgeson could help us out by voting for No Lynching, or for Arsene or Papagena (in effect a no lynching). Then it will be discovered that Andrew hasn't died, merely fainted, and we'll be one stronger to hold off the Guardians' onslaught in the next round.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CuppaT:
Who ever said that Andrew was innocent?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CuppaT:
We all act like a bunch of lemmings most of the time.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CuppaT:
Why does a dead man keep on talking so much?

---

Says the talking cat...
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
(cross-posted)

Papagena, Andrew himself said he is a Citizen, after his declaration of apparent death.

As for a hiatus, on second thought, it does risk losing momentum, so maybe it's not a good idea. Dear Red Cat Goddess, do as you think best. Well, of course you'd do that anyway.

Arsene, I'll be rereading the thread with an eye to considering Eli as a Defector-Mason. Are we agreed on going after one of Papagena or Eli? I'm still unsure about changing my trust of Eli. For the record, what has swayed me towards trusting him was his explanation about why he wouldn't defect even if he were a Defector, so I'll be reexamining that too.

[ 11. November 2010, 18:12: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Are we agreed on going after one of Papagena or Eli?

---

• Andrew Whisker (El Greco) 5 votes
• Papagena (CuppaT) 3 votes
• Arsène Beauregarde 1 vote.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:

Dafyd - not sure.
Why?
He repeatedly mispelt my name as Beauregarde
He also agrees with Eli often. And because of this pseudo-maths post
A) A Guardian would know that there is a mason in his own camp and might accidentally make the mistake above. (Could be genuine error, though).

B) These pseudo-maths are usually useless because you don't gain much from (even exact) maths based on very inaccurate figures (i.e. speculative guesses) to start from. But this kind of post, so confusing that nobody checks the details but looking impressive is much in Eli's style when he tries to stun people into believing him while talking rubbish. Why does Dafyd go for this game, now?

---

Dai woke up briefly from alcoholic slumbers briefly to answer the allegations.
Dai apologises again for the misspelling. He would like to point out that the Great Red Cat goddess is also doing it. (Although he thinks it may be he who confused her, so he's doubly apologetic.)
Eli clearly was innocent even before the guardians offed him. And although he'd been unlucky with his votes so far, I still maintain he was basing his reasoning on sound principles.
The confusion of masons and guardians was indeed a mistake.
I came out with that maths post above because Rose asked me to clarify my pedantic comments. I agree that the maths is only as good as the underlying assumptions. The underlying assumptions in this case are that either you or Papagena are guilty. I notice that by your repeated accusations of Papagena you are agreeing with them. So why are you questioning assumptions that you agree with? Hmm?
As for Rose's assertion that I'm too quiet, I've looked back over the history and I have been not been as quiet as she's making out, even before she accused me.

Why was Eli killed by the guardians? We knew he was innocent, but if enough people accused him of being the defector he could have been lynched. If Rose and Beauregard had nominated him, three guardians could have joined them and they'd have lynched him. So why kill him first? An obvious answer: the guardians weren't sure of having three additional votes on top of Rose and Beauregard. At least one of Beauregard and Rose is a guardian.

Other reasons the guardians might have wanted Eli dead?
1) He had accused Beauregard or Madoc, or;
2) The guardians wanted us to think it was because he had accused Beauregard and Madoc, or;
3) The guardians wanted us to think they wanted us to think it was because he'd accused Beauregard and Madoc. etc.
In other words, we can't say whether the guardians are bluffing or double-bluffing. I suspect the double-bluff myself - although that's because I already suspect Beauregard.

Anyway, we need to get it right this time. I still think our best bet is to go for Papagena or Beauregard. And as is probably obvious I think Beauregard is more suspicious.

[ 12. November 2010, 20:21: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
 

---

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
Eli? They'd knocked off Eli???
Lt. Madoc really didn't understand this one; surely the Guardians should have left Eli alive to divide the camp and gone for Miss Smudgeson. Having a Mason with little credibility would be an asset to the cultists; if it weren't an insane proposition, Owain would have thought suicide more likely than assassination.
Well, this about cleared his name-the lieutenant would have never allowed one of his men to act in such a way-especially when that action pointed at their officer! Plus, having Eli pointing fingers at him was something of a proof of innocence; if anything, recent events seemed to be an attempt to frame Madoc more than anything else.
Pity, really; it wasn't a very good attempt. Why, if he'd been in charge of the cultists, the camp would have been dead for some time! The fact that this would mean he would be dead as well (along with, presumably, Rose) was tempered consideribly by the thought of the Captain being dead as well. Despite all the chaos in the camp, his commander was exhibiting a perfectly typical response by an English army officer to wholesale slaughter: sitting in his tent and ignoring it. Lieutenant Madoc wondered if he was planning on doing anything about the potential Guardian victory...
Perish the thought. Madoc and his men were ready, but he wasn't so sure about the other companies.
As for the recent ad hoc judicial proceedings...well, Papagena has been on the ballot a few times already. Let's hope that this hunch, at long last, pays off in our eleventh hour.
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
It occurs to me after some thought that another reason that the guardians might have gone after Eli is that he was sufficiently unpopular that the guardians thought that the doctor wouldn't protect him. That makes some of my reasoning about Beauregard even more flawed than it was anyway. I call it reasoning; I suppose it's really just rationalised guesswork. Aaargh...
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Arsène is flabbergasted.
Even if few people will believe it.
At least the Guardians will

I am flabbergasted by Eli's often irrational game which persuaded me of the "mason-defector fantasy" (his words). No doubt he will think the same about me. I was the more convinced of his his guilt because I know (and you will, too, if you lynch me today) that after I accused him I became the fourth innocent whom he put forward for lynching.

I am flabbergasted by the Guardians' killing Eli when it looked pretty much like we were going to lynch him tomorrow.

I find only few rational explanations for this murder:

a) The Guardians thought Eli was the one innocent least likely to be protected by the doctor (because many people - possibly incl.the doctor? - suspected him by now).

b) The Guardians knew that I was wrong in my suspicion of Eli (i.e. not dangerous for them) but some innocents seemed to trust me - possibly this meant the doctor protected me.

c) As a mason Eli (like Smudgeson) was unlikely to be the veteran, too.

d) Eli's death totally incriminates me. (If I wasn't me, I'd suspect me now).
So by killing Eli and getting me lynched they'd get two-for-the-price-of-one.

e) They are so secure by now that they enjoy a little game of cat and mice by killing our prime suspect.

I cannot blame anyone who wants to lynch me. All I do is ask you to consider how likely the reflection outlined under a) to (especially) d) is. If you were Guardian would you consider acting this way?

I am at present totally clueless and obviously doubt everything I said earlier. Papagena? Why Papagena?
I am surprised that Rose still trusts me. Why? I probably wouldn't.
She puts forward Papagena, sticking by our previous plan. Why? Even as an arch-Guardian she could have turned round and blamed me without arousing any suspicion.

Miss Mason Smudgeson - can I have a strong cup of tea, please? You are the only soul here whom one can trust absolutely.

Dai, I agreed with your findings above (and you agreed with my initial assumption of a mason-defector being nonsense) - but can't I still suspect you on the basis of something else? In this game some Guardian is bound to agree with some of the goodies some of the time. I look for arguments that confuse by pretending to prove more than they can and treat them as suspicious. Eli's death shows how much of our "analysis and reflections" are glorified guesswork...

Papagena is the only player whom many here suspected at various points. I did, Dai did, Rose did and Eli+ did.
I'd go for her again. Mind you, it would still leave me clueless about the other Guardian(s) the following day (if there is one).
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Sorry, I only see now that Dai already made my point a) about the doctor not protecting Eli.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I think Seth is probably a Guardian too, along with Papagena. Then I'm left with a tossup between Madoc, Dai, and possibly Arsene for the third Guardian. But I'm still inclined to trust Arsene, because of how he reasons out loud.

On rereading the thread I see that Dai has not been as quiet as I thought. I'm still undecided on him though.

Madoc's lengthy reasoning had me thinking he was innocent, but maybe he is a Guardian and his schtick of "how would I think if I were a Guardian" is cleverly designed to allow him to post at length using the reasoning he is most familiar with.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
Why was Eli killed by the guardians?  We knew he was innocent, but if enough people accused him of being the defector he could have been lynched.  If Rose and Beauregard had nominated him, three guardians could have joined them and they'd have lynched him.  So why kill him first?  An obvious answer: the guardians weren't sure of having three additional votes on top of Rose and Beauregard.  At least one of Beauregard and Rose is a guardian.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CuppaT:
I am back to suspecting Arsene as a bothersome fly, though, and will nominate Rose Autenrieth as worthy of lynching.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CuppaT:
[This poor post took more than an hour to do till I learned how to link, and so was mostly written before the last couple posts.]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
Dai apologises again for the misspelling. He would like to point out that the Great Red Cat goddess is also doing it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CuppaT:
But Eli is dead, so how can we be hypothetical about lynching him?

---

What I meant was, Dai was proposing that the Guardians couldn't be sure of lynching Eli during the day, hence had to murder him at night.  And his reason was that the Guardians must be unsure of assembling 5 votes, and finally that must be because one of Beauregard or I is (am?) a Guardian.  I'm pointing out that the Guardians would have needed only 4 votes to lynch Eli if they'd murdered someone else and tried to lynch Eli today.  So, given that Dai was wrong in his count, it also destroys this particular argument that one of Arsene or I is a Guardian.

I'm not saying Arsene isn't a Guardian, but on balance I believe he's not.  And I'm sorry that by saying that I'll probably only confirm you in your belief that the two of us are in cahoots.  Not true.

Thanks for digging up that thread.  That was a work of art.   It was also very hard because I was perpetually thinking very carefully:  have I posted too much?  Have I posted too little?  Have I said something to inadvertently cast suspicion where I don't want to?  It's much easier to be a Citizen, as I am this time, and just post as I wish.

[ 14. November 2010, 21:26: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
2) At least one of Rose and Madoc is innocent. Possibly both are innocent, but they can't both be guardians.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:

I'm not saying Arsene isn't a Guardian, but on balance I believe he's not. And I'm sorry that by saying that I'll probably only confirm you in your belief that the two of us are in cahoots. Not true.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
As Rose has pointed out, I was miscounting the number of people that the Guardians would have needed to lynch Eli. And I'm pretty certain that at least one of Rose or Madoc must be innocent, and they've both expressed criticisms of Eli. So the Guardians could have been near certain of getting four people to lynch him. There goes that theory.

Quick review of what I think we know.
1) Smudgeson is innocent.
2) At least one of Rose and Madoc is innocent. Possibly both are innocent, but they can't both be guardians.
3) At least one of Papagena and Beauregard is guilty. Possibly both. (In fact, quite apart from my previous reasoning, given that I'm innocent and given that at least one of Rose or Madoc must be innocent this must be true.)

Papagena's nomination of Rose must I think be viewed as a mistake. Going after Rose or Madoc at this stage is not playing the odds.
The odds strongly favour going after Beauregard or Papagena.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
Papagena's nomination of Rose must I think be viewed as a mistake. Going after Rose or Madoc at this stage is not playing the odds.
The odds strongly favour going after Beauregard or Papagena.

---

If that reasoning is sound I'd agree – but only because I know I am innocent. That does not help anyone else much, though

I could stick with my ongoing suspicion of Papagena and vote to lynch her but if silence incriminates, can someone remind me why Madoc and Seth are not treated as more suspicious?
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Seth was quiet because he was thinking. Whoever the Guardians were, they had been quite happy to let Eli work away at pointing the finger at various citizens and letting us lynch them. Then all of a sudden he starts to point a finger at Arsene and the very same night he ends up dead.

I reckon that Eli was guessing just as much as any of us citizens were guessing, and we were happy to go along with his stabs in the dark. Unfortunately he did the Guardians a huge favour, but just before he copped it, he begins to point the finger of suspicion at Arsene, who then starts filling his boots before they have even grown cold after his death.He's doing the same thing, hoping we will all be stupid enough to go, 'oh yeah, let's do that' in the same way we have before and then end up killing yet another innocent. I nominate Arsene

*The real reason I have been quiet is cos I may have to go into hospital later this afternoon. So if I grow even more quiet it'll be cos I'm under the knife, but while I dream in anasthesia I shall think of this thread and hope I live and hope I have nominated a Guardian.
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Overheard on the desert breezes:

"Let me get this straight - you're claiming to be one of mine and you still don't want to come with me to await the fulfillment of the Promise?"

"Not exactly, father, just not yet. I told the angel to wait..."

"It seems that you told the angel to ‘bugger off'..."

"Bugger off and wait. I want to see what happens."

"Listen, Eli, my son, don't mess me about. You're in on the absolute narrowest of margins. You spent your life accumulating money by lies and exploitation..."

"I was not lucky enough to be able to get rich by pimping my sister..."

"Point. Taken."

"I just want to see if I was right or wrong."

"You were wrong about many things - the recording angel has quite the list. And you were right - in the end and only just - about the one thing that matters: YHWH is God and He alone ... oh enough with the surprise, already. Of course I can say it. He calls Himself by my name, I call Him by His."

"But was I right or wrong about the Guardians?"

"Does it matter?"

"Does it matter whether it matters?"

"Oh have it your own way then! See it out to the end. We'll bag up the lot of you when it's all over. My life, what did I do to deserve such bloody stubborn descendants?"

[softly] "I'm sure the recording angel has quite the list."
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Rose and Beauregard have both asked me about my three things I think we know.

1) Smudgeson is a mason:

She outed herself as one; Eli outed her as one. Eli was definitely a mason.
I don't believe that there are any mason-defectors.

2) At least one of Rose and Madoc is innocent (and maybe both):

Madoc nominated Rose in the first round. If they were both guardians, that would have been a huge risk to take. If Eli had voted for Rose rather than for McBride Rose would almost certainly now be dead. I don't think it makes sense for the guardians to risk lynching each other unless they're under pressure in some way. (If a guardian thinks that he or she is likely to be lynched in the next couple of turns anyway, then it does become worthwhile for them to try nominating another guardian to put people off the scent.)

3) At least one of Beauregard and Papagena is guilty (and maybe both):

If they're not guilty then this means that all the guardians voted as a block in the first round. It's much more likely that they would have split their votes. In addition, the first person they killed off - Champion - had voted the same way, so they would have been killing off their cover. I don't think the guardians would have left themselves exposed like that. The guardians want, as far as possible, to hide themselves among innocents.
(Also, if you accept my innocence, and I'm right about 1 and 2, then there aren't enough innocents left for both Papagena and Beauregard to be innocent.)
I don't think Beauregard's accusations of Papagena show that they're not both guilty: it was likely when he did that that at least one might be lynched within a couple of turns.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by fletcher christian:
I nominate Arsene

---

Not many people have the honour of being nominated twice in the same round
I feel very dangerous. Unfortunately I am not.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
Madoc nominated Rose in the first round. If they were both guardians, that would have been a huge risk to take.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
3) At least one of Beauregard and Papagena is guilty (and maybe both): If they're not guilty then this means that all the guardians voted as a block in the first round. It's much more likely that they would have split their votes.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
I don't think Beauregard's accusations of Papagena show that they're not both guilty: it was likely when he did that that at least one might be lynched within a couple of turns.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Hope your surgery went well (and wasn't anything horribly scarily major), fc.

---

• Papagena (CuppaT), nominated by Rose Autenrieth (Autenrieth Road)
• Arsène Beauregard (Sylvander), nominated by Dai Mortal (Dafyd)
• Rose Autenrieth (Autenrieth Road), nominated by Papagena (CuppaT)
• no lynching

quote:

---

Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
but, by and large, we've never heard your thoughts about our fellow camp members, but rather simple protestations of innocence. This leads me to believe that you're afraid of making a revealing slip of the sandpaper tongue, thus revealing your true allegiance-or, since you already know who is innocent and who is guilty, there's no reason for you to try and decipher clues with us, nor search for patterns and odd behaviors! Those who already possess knowledge have no reason to seek it; those who want this answer to remain hidden should never aid those who search.

---

The flaw here, of course, is that sometimes people (and cats) have no clue and nothing to say, and so say nothing. Most of you are good at bluffing. I am not, nor am I able to pull logical answers out of thin air. Hence, I am wary of everyone and have held my sweet little sandpapery tongue when I wanted, and talked also when I wanted. Hrumph.

I would dearly love to vote for Rose, but at this point it would kill me. I have also felt the urge, like BL, to vote for myself and be done with it. But sense prevails, as it usually does, and I cast my vote for Arsene, in hopes that the other few will, too.

[edited for boldness]

[ 18. November 2010, 20:29: Message edited by: CuppaT ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Given that Arsene is one of the two left to vote (along with Miss Smudgeson), it is unlikely that he will be lynched.

Papagena, may I say that if you turn out to be innocent I will be very disappointed because it will mean that I am surrounded by Guardians whom I have no ability whatsoever to detect.
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
A chilling presence drifts over the sand seeking out M. Beauregard and Miss Smudgeson. Finding first one target, then the other, Eli pokes each hard in the spine with an insubstantial finger, and in a soundless voice hisses: "Go on - vote!"


The unwritten laws of the spirit world do not allow the shade to do more. Certainly Eli is powerless even to try to influence the way they should vote, and after a moment's thought, he finds that even if it were permitted, he would not wish to. If the Guardians are clever enough to succeed, then such is life. Eli has no thought of vengeance. He is, however, utterly consumed with a burning curiosity to see how this important, and final, chapter in his life will end.
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Dai Mortal went back to the bar to drown his worries.
He decided to name the time at which he would pass out 'Friday afternoon'. The time at which he would wake up and find out what was happening he would designate 'Sunday evening'. In between he would be in a state he called 'away from keyboard'.

Knawing his knuckles.
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Eli Abrahams' ghost gives up on the futile attempt to poke Beauregard into action with his icy fingers, and sits, melancholy, on a low dune whiling away the interminable hours by constructing a clanking and highly fashionable tangle of iron chains out of ectoplasm. After painstakingly fitting the last link, he finds the Frenchman and lifts the whole mass to smite him mightily, but ineffectually, over the head.

Then he wanders off to Hyacinth's tea tent to curdle the milk.

[ 19. November 2010, 14:03: Message edited by: Eliab ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Brrr, it's awfully cold out here. Is there a ghost walking or something? Has it kidnapped Arsene and Miss Smudgeson?
 

---

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
Miss Smudgeson (slightly shocked that a fellow mason would curdle the milk) poured herself a refreshing cuppa.
Truth be told, she felt suspicious of both Arsene and Papagena.... and wasn't totally convinced of Rose's innocence either. But it was the cat who most concerned her. Far too quiet and devious, slipping unnoticed into dark corners and, it had to be said, stealing the best seats too.
Her vote would only have any value if she were to cast it for the cat anyway. Can you lynch a cat?
Hyacinth votes for Papagena
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Arsene dreamt he was in a hostel in Sutherland with a few minutes' access to the papyrus-less communication realm. And at just the right time to vote ,too!
He had left detailed instructions with the Great Cat to vote by proxy (thx for your assistance) which coincide directly with what he does now, i.e. follow Miss Smudgeson, the mason's vote (in time and in content).
So
PAPAGENA
it is. (Sorry, cannot find how to operate the rectangular brackets on this papyrus).
Fingers crossed it is the right thing to do.
 

---

Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
Poison. It was poison.
Someone, supposedly kindly, set out a bit of food in a low dish for the cat. One by one some folks slipped by and sprinkled something on the food. No one saw. Papagena ate it and died near the dish.
Poor cat. She truly was a citizen.
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Eli's ghost watches the camp carefully. Is that it? Are the Guardians now a majority? Did they win? Might there be a doctor and veteren still alive to give the camp a slender chance? And what manner of deity is going to come to collect the last essence of an innocent murdered cat?

The spirit gathers up the chains and drifts over to the small, furry body, and waits.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Arrrrrggggghhhhhhh!

Sorry Papagena.
 

---

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
Lieutenant Madoc had been drilling a picked contingent of his men. While the rest of the company waited in idleness, he had been preparing for this contingency—it would be a very determined Guardian indeed who could deal with the crack force he had assembled! Even if the Guardians and camp members were now equal, there was still some sliver of hope for tomorrow—and, failing that, the army would do its best to stave off any possible massacre.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that. Tonight's watch is going to be a lonely one without Papagena for company.
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
You all seem to be getting on very nicely without me, but anyway -

Papagena 5 votes
Arsène Beauregard 2 votes.

The cat is lynched. She was, as she says, a citizen.

Night falls.
 

---

Posted by Leetle Masha (# 8209) on :
 
From a fan:


Papagena, R.I.P.
 

---

Posted by Smudgie (# 2716) on :
 
[tangent][i]Interestingly I find myself feeling really awful for being "virtually" responsible for the lynching of an innocent cat. With the innocent humans who died I felt far less guilt. Not sure what this says about me. Must get a grip, Smudgie, must get a grip. It's all pretend really! [/tangent]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
[losing grip tangent, continued]
I dreamed last night that Smudgie was hosting the game and she sent me by accident an email identifying who the Guardians are. I wish!
[/losing grip tangent]
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
This is like waiting on a killer appearing in a horror film. Aggghhh....the tension is killing me.
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Morning everyone.

The sun's up, it's getting hot already, and you are all alive and well (apart from the people who were already dead, obviously).

Nominations open.
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Eli's shade hovers over the camp, rattling his chains omninously in the pale dawn. He tries a piercing howl for effect, and decides that that's more 'Banshee' than 'ghost-with-unfinished-business'. A low, anguished, moan would seem more in keeping. He tries one, and is quite pleased with the result.

Unsurprisingly, there seems to be no new addition to the spirit world, so he drifts off to see whether the Red Cat Goddess has collected the soul of Papagena.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Seems like the doctor did the right thing and the Guardians made their first mistake or rather we were lucky for the very first time in this darned game.
After the Papagena lynching I thought if this were chess anything other than resigning would be regarded as bad sport.

As it is we have a new lease of live and I have no clue what to do now, whom ot suspect. I felt rather sure about Eliab - and a little less about Papagena and both times got it wrong.

I trust you'll want to lynch me. But unfortunately this will still be a mistake.

I have an idea:
There are now six of us left (is it theoretically possible that there are more than two Guardians among the six?).

There must be one doctor, one mason (Smudgeson) and one innocent whom the doctor protected last night (the doctor knows who it is and that s/he is innocent as the Guardians tried to strike at him.

So are there three innocents out of six whom we could identify by giving away information about ourselves, mainly the doctor (saying who he is and whom he protected)? Unless the doctor protected Mason Smudgie in which case we and s/he would be none the wiser.

Can anyone think of a good way to use this knowledge so that it helps us to secure a 4-2 lynching vote rather than a hung vote?

I think if there are three Guardians we are doomed but if there are only two then an unmasking of ourselves would help us win even if the doctor gets killed the following night. Or am I making a mistake (I'm in haste here).

Let us discuss this before the doctor declares anyhting.

Ok, my time on internet is up.

Tata!
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Interesting thought. The 4th vote would come from the 4th innocent who would see the 3 declared innocents and know to go along with them.

Even if the Doctor protected Miss Smudgeson, would it be advantageous for the Doctor to declare himself? Then we would at least know 2 innocents.
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Blast. Should have gone for my first instincts on Papagena/Beauregard.
On the other hand, well done the doctor.

Could Beauregard say why he's maintaining that there are only two guardians? That seems unlikely to me.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
There are six of us left. If there are three Guardians, they've won already. So we have to proceed as if there were two. Also, Teufelchen's 2006 recommendations for Mafia suggested at least one more Mason than Mafia, which is another argument in favor of two Guardians.
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
We could still win with three guardians assuming we have a veteran or vigilante and the doctor keeps lucky. That would require the doctor not to identify himself or herself, of course.
I'd be more enthusiastic about the two guardians idea if it didn't originate with Beauregard, about whom, for previously stated reasons, I am deeply suspicious.

I wish Smudgie would speak up. Talk about guardians keeping quiet - the person keeping the quietest is the known innocent.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I had thought of the two Guardians idea earlier (about when Eli was murdered) -- I can't remember if I said anything at the time. Why are you suspicious of Arsene? And is there anyone else you suspect?

I suspect Madoc, and Seth (but not so much after Papagena turned out to be innocent). I could perhaps be persuaded to suspect Arsene, but if he's guilty then I stand in awe at his pyrotechnics of verbiage.
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
I suspect Arsene, because he tried to pick up the role of Eli pretty quickly after he died and then he immediately nominated an innocent. Like, that would have to involve serious bad luck if he was an innocent.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I nominate Madoc . This is because, based on posting style, I think Madoc's "what would a Guardian think" pose would be easier for a Guardian to carry off than Arsene's "I'm thinking out loud."

At any rate, if Arsene is a Guardian, he must have an accomplice (I can't believe there's just one Guardian), and it seems as likely to be Madoc as anyone.
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
I don't follow your reasoning there. Can you expand?
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Why are you suspicious of Arsene? And is there anyone else you suspect?

---

As before, I think at least one guardian must have voted no lynching in the first round. And Arsene is the only one left. (I'd be more impressed by the torrent of verbiage argument if Smudgie weren't keeping so quiet.)
By process of elimination, the others must be Seth and either you (Rose) or Madoc.
Anyway, I strongly doubt that there's only two guardians. And if there's three of them they only need one innocent to vote for an innocent. Of course, if you and Beauregard are right about there being only two guardians I'd be making the wrong choice. Even so, I think the only way I'd consider voting for anyone other than no lynching this round is if Smudgie votes for someone and at least one person votes for someone else.

[ 25. November 2010, 11:04: Message edited by: Dafyd ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Seth, I'm not sure what else to say about my reasoning.

Dai, I see what you're saying about Arsene. But I don't follow your "no lynching this round" argument. If there are three Guardians, and we don't lynch anyone, the most likely result is that the Guardians kill someone tonight. Then there are only five of us tomorrow, and the hypothetical three Guardians can lynch whomever they please, and kill the remaining innocent tomorrow night. Are you trusting in the existence of a Vigilante to happen to hit on a Guardian tonight?
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Yep, I feel it's too risky to have a 'no lynching' at this stage. If there are three guardians then we have lost if they get to kill someone in the night, haven't we?
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Whoops. I've realised I never set a time limit on this round. Call it tomorrow evening my time.

So far we have a nomination for Madoc from Rose - I am not sure if anyone has made a formal nomination against Arsène?
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Three Guardians would simply make sure of a no-lynching by hung vote and then kill someone the following night. They can once more get unlucky but at the third attempt at the latest they'll hit the doctor who cannot protect himself.
So with 3 Guardians the game would already be over.
As it is I think we have lost in any case as I would lynch myself if I did not know better. I think I'll get lynched this round and then we've lost.
I have no idea who the two guardians might be. It might be possible to find clues in analysing past voting patterns. But like all others I am too lazy to do that.
I suspect I'll soon have to draw my hat to Rose, though .

[ 25. November 2010, 19:26: Message edited by: Sylvander ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Only if you want to doff your cap to a very average Citizen, Arsene!

I've looked at the voting patterns and there's no suspicious pattern that I can find.
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Seth thought long and hard about nominating Arsene. he was deeply suspicious of him, but it was just that - a suspicion. Not being great at maths, he was still trying to work out the scales of probability. If we have one person nominated and lynched there is a 50/50 chance they are a gardian (seeing that Rose too only has a suspicion about her nomination). So if Seth introduces a second candidate, does that increase or decrease the probability of getting a guardian? His head started to hurt. He still decided to take the risk and nominate Arsene
 

---

Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Voting opens

You may vote for:

• Lt Madoc (AristonAstuanax), nominated by Rose Autenrieth (Autenrieth Road)
• Arsène Beauregard (Sylvander), nominated by Mr Seth (fletcher christian)
• no lynching

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Rose shakes sand out of her shoes,

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
Chevaliers de la table ronde,
goûtons voir si le vin est bon!

---

quote:

---

Si je meurs je veux qu'on m'enterre
dans la cave où il y a bon vin.
Les deux pieds contre la muraille
Et la tête sous le robinet.

---

If I die I want to be buried
In the cellar where there is good wine.
Two feet against the wall,
And head under the tap.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Doctor Rose Autenrieth huddled in the teatent with Miss Hyacinth Smudgeson.  She was glad her faith in Arsène Beauregard had been justified.  She was sorry she had lost faith in Eli Abrahams and switched from defending him (as she had been doing from the start) to defending Miss Smudgeson on that fatal night.  She had defended Miss Smudgeson last night, too, finally meeting with success.

Madoc, Seth, and Dai, Guardians.  So all her vote-agonizing today had made little difference, although she had the satisfaction of knowing she had at last (but too late) successfully named a Guardian.  She tried to distract herself with remembering moonlight sandy walks, and realized she was confused.  Had it been the Frenchman or the Lieutenant with whom she had promenaded?

"More tea, please," she whispered, hoarsely.  She raised her cup in a sad, final toast to the Innocents of Camp Sarastro.  Scarabs began to crawl under the tent walls.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
[Hover, hover]
How nice to know you were not a murderess!
Enjoy your tea! What happens to the survivors - will the Guardians slaughter you all?
[hovers off]
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Seth untied his camels and sent them off free into the desert. He wrapped his head in a scarf leaving only his eyes visible. He knew it was time to claim the victory. The Guardians had won the day and the King would rest peacefully. The Kings spirit moved on the air in approval and Seth's eyes glowed with the heat of it.

Now only one small matter remained: a tale of two ladies. Seth made his way to the tent where they had gathered. Upon reaching the tent he paused to summon the dead King's spirit and gather a persuasive case. Scrab beetles began to crawl out of the sand from underneath his feet and crawled under the flaps of the tent. Someone screamed, 'I'm an innocent, get me out of here!'. A pack of jackals circles the camp and bayed for blood and a lone vulture spun overhead in anticipatory excitement. Seth entered the tent.......

'Dear ladies, what an unexpected surprise. I bring you tidings from a mighty King long dead, whose spirit seeks rest and who longs for Guardians to care for his eternal repose. I have in my hand a bowl of Amun Rouge Ra's favourite cat chews. All you must do is make a choice.

Your first choice is this: eat the catnip infused holy cat chew and join the ranks of the immortal and indestructible Guardians and spend the rest of your days in the pleasant service of your king out here in the desert; or...

Your second choice is this: be slowly eaten by scarabs, jackals and a vulture and die here in the tent of ungodliness.

Muuuuhahahahahah! I know it's a hard decision, but now tell me; what will your decision be?!'

Seth stood and waited and refused the offer of a cup of tea while they thought about it.

'Dear ladies, ' he said, 'I ,ay be immortal, but I won't wait for ever. Make your choice!'

*Thank the gods we didn't have to make this offer to the priest; he has an allergen to cat nip.

[ 29. November 2010, 15:18: Message edited by: fletcher christian ]
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Dai wasn't sure what Seth was up to, but in the mean time he was busy in Whisker's tent faking details in Whisker's diary and maps. Nobody would find King Senkhet's tomb again. The King and his treasure would rest safe from the eyes of the curious and the profane (like that heretic young Whisker). The tomb would remain undisturbed. Nothing good ever came from disturbing tombs.

I think we were lucky to be honest. I thought we were attracting attention to ourselves by all voting for a lynching in the first round, but Eli then decided that some of the guardians must have voted for a no lynching. (Personally, I would have agreed with him if I hadn't known better.) Also, we were fortunate to kill off the detective in the first round.
 

---

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
Lieutenant Madoc threw off his heavy jacket; the brilliant white robes of a Guardian shone in the moonlight, his gold bracer catching the glint of a distant fire.

Tonight. The final victory of the Guardians is at hand!

The contingent of men loyal to him met him outside of the camp. Some of them were veterans of the Great War with grudges to settle against the profligacy of their captain, while others were simply seeking the wealth hidden in the tomb. Madoc, of course, had no patience for those who would defile what they had been entrusted to guard; happily, the poison that now ran through their veins wouldn't be taking effect for a few more hours . . .

The Captain was already dead; the expression on his face was remarkably similar to that of Lord Whiskers—a sudden shock at seeing a figure from the ancient days come to life, aiming a very deadly longbow arrow straight at his chest. The other officers had met similar fates; Dai was quite effective with his crossbow, and Madoc wasn't sure he really wanted to know what Seth and his knife had gotten up to.

Owain drew his sword, bringing his men to attention. A forward thrust into the air, and the company began its advance.

The Welshmen of Camp Sarastro never stood a chance. The attack came suddenly; by the time anyone realized what was happening, they had been mown down by machine gun fire. The Curse came quickly for them; the unearthly scarabs would deal with the bodies.

Moving quickly, Lieutenant Madoc ordered his men to spread out and deal with the camp followers who were attempting to flee to safety, leaving only a small platoon behind in the camp to mop up. He had complete faith in his men; try as they might, the Curse of Senkhet would be fulfilled.

Owain remembered the oath his father and grandfather had made him take as a youth. Protecting the pharaoh, in both life and in death, had been the solemn duty of his ancestors for uncounted generations. Lord Whiskers knew exactly what the Curse was; anyone who had seen the entrance to the tomb would be struck by the statues of powerful warriors in white and gold, dedicated to destroying any who might disturb their master. Now, it was time for the Curse to be fulfilled.

None were to be left alive who might disturb the pharaoh's tomb.

None.

An explosion from the camp knocked some of his men to the ground; Lieutenant Madoc was glad to see that the explosives he had placed had gone off as planned. Striding forward through the carnage, he at last reached the tea tent, the swarms of scarab beetles parting before him.

Already, Seth was making an offer of the Sacred Catnip to the worthy enemies of the Guardians. The sound of gunfire continued to echo through the valley as his men finished their grim work.

Owain drew and cocked his pistol. Even if they wouldn't take the Catnip (trust me, ladies, Take The Catnip!), Lieutenant Madoc had some sympathy and honor. Though his oaths forbade any who opposed him to be left alive, they didn't say anything about sparing his victims the jackals . . .
 

---

Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
(Side note: the above posts are greatly enhanced by the "Danse Bacchanale" from Samson et Delilah)

We made a few tactical errors early on that paid off amazingly well—we weren't planning on voting as a bloc in the first round, but, once we did, we pretty well went with the "look at people who didn't vote to lynch!" strategy.
And it worked.
For much of the rest of the game, our basic strategy (or at least mine, as a Guardian) was to keep people from noticing us by pitting parts of the camp against one another. Rose, you should have never tried to save Eli; he was far too useful as a distraction for us to lynch him. We/I also had great fun trying to pit Eli against Arséne against Andrew; throw in one little aspersion against one of them, and watch the fur fly!
It was a struck of luck, really, that I was able to rase the specter of the defector at exactly the time when it could be used to keep the dwindling numbers of innocents divided. It wasn't until people started to habitually disbelieve Eli that we killed him; if he wasn't dividing the camp any longer, he was useless to us.
Well. It was great fun killing you all off. Now then, ladies, I believe there's some catnip for you; I would truly hate for our moonlit walks to be at an end, Miss Rose.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
[hover, hover]

Machine guns mowing down people ...
And there I was thinking WE rather enjoyed being mafia killers at the time

quote:

---

Originally posted by AristonAstuanax:
I would truly hate for our moonlit walks to be at an end, Miss Rose.

---

Aaaaah! Murderer! Traitor! Liar! This takes the biscuit! Woman snatcher!
Dear Divine Kittie-Cat, can I have a return ticket to re-incarnation, please? Five minutes will suffice.

[hover, hover]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Never! Never will I betray the memory of my innocent comrades by eating your accursed catnip! Come along Miss Smudgeson. Stand aside Mr Seth, Lieutenant Madoc.

Rose tucked Miss Smudgeson's hand under her arm and stalked out of the tent, into the desert where the jackals waited. A deadly scorpion scuttled towards the women. The rest is silence.
 

---

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Pity, the Guardians are a bit male dominated for a group with eternal membership.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Played like a violin string.  

I would be interested to know if any of our dead comrades pegged any of the Guardians after your death.  I regretfully note that Eli suspected Madoc, but I didn't go along with him then.  And El Greco nominated Seth, but I'm not sure if that was anything more than random luck.

Strategy

Everything I thought I knew about how to detect Mafia has been shattered.  The Guardians played a blunt strategy:  first to nominate, all voting for lynching first round.  So much for the idea that Mafia would use evasive tactics.  Think Mafia will be talkative (Madoc)?  There were Arsène, Eli, and me being equally talkative.  Think Mafia will be quiet (Seth)?  There were Smudgie and Papagena being even quieter.  Think Mafia will throw suspicion on Masons (Madoc suggesting the Defector)?  There was Arsène opposing Eli from the start.

Conclusions about other players:  we'll never be able to detect Banner Lady or El Greco as Mafia:  too erratic.  We'll never be able to detect CuppaT or Smudgie: they're naturally quiet.  Sylvander has a natural excuse as well for being quiet next round: "look at how much I spoke last time, and how it turned out." Eliab also will be hard to detect as a Mafia member: he wasn't 100% right this time, so misreasonings he may make as a Mafia member can't necessarily be chalked up to deliberate deception.

Rules

I liked that there was no limit on the number of nominations.  (The game CuppaT linked to had a limit, and it allowed us Mafia to trap the Citizens at the end).

I would prefer for the roles in play to be stated explicitly.  We wasted a lot of time on the Defector chimera, and I think it played a large part in the Citizens' loss.  On the other hand, I'm OK with not knowing the numbers of each role.

I liked defense running concurrently with nominations, but I'd like for defense and wrangling to be allowed to continue into the voting phase.  If someone is nominated late, as it stands now they don't have much of a chance for defense.

I'm unsure about not declaring victory until the Guardians have an absolute majority.  Seems to me once the Guardians are equal to the Citizens, they're guaranteed a win.  They can hang any daytime vote, and, even if there's a doctor, they're bound to hit on the doctor eventually and then they'll have the absolute majority.  On the other hand, playing to parity instead of absolute majority would have deprived me of my two successes (defending Miss Smudgeson and identifying Lieutenant Madoc), useless as they may have been.  And, in the game linked to by CuppaT, Teufelchen let us have that last round to play to absolute majority, solely for the purpose of messing with our victim's minds .  So I guess this is more of a mathematical comment than a firm preference for a rule change.

Next...

Thank you very much to la vie en rouge for running the game, to our Circus hosts for reading the whole thing, to all the Citizens for your valiant efforts to stamp out evil, and to the Guardians for being excellent opponents.

Hosts, can we have another round?  Players, anyone care to run it?  I'd rather play, but I'm willing to run it if needed.
 

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Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :
 
Indeed, praise is due to the great cat in the sky for an enjoyable game
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Thank you very much to la vie en rouge for running the game

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Thirded.
And, indeed, thank you to everyone for taking part in the game.
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
What a fantastic game. Well played - indeed flawlessly played - the Guardians!

I'm still unsure whether sacrificing McBride on day 2 was a sound move (yes, it was a sacrifice - I never thought he was guilty). It made sense on the figures to clear two innocents, and it worked as a controversy-generator (I had nothing on day 1 and we badly needed something to make people react if we were going to get any clues at all), but mostly I suggested it because it was in character for Eli to see everything as a transaction. And it backfired terribly by provoking Banner Lady's accusation of me - which essentially lost us the game. Mea culpa, to a large degree.

I was absolutely convinced that she was guilty when she did that (because, seriously, what the fuck would an innocent person be thinking of, to nominate a known mason?), and that screw up destroyed all cohesion amongst the innocents.

Well played to AristonAstuanax at that point for some magnificent stirring - although I knew you were guilty immediately Banner Lady was innocent (one thing I can do is spot a stirrer). But, foolishly, I thought that Slyvander (who picked up on what seemed to me a clearly insane nomination) was a better chance.

Fletcher christian I was always a bit suspicious of, but there were always more plausible candidates. Dafyd had me completely fooled throughout. I think that even if we had lynched Madoc on Day 4, that being the first clear clue the Guardians let slip, we'd never have come around to suspecting Dai.

A thoroughly deserved win.


Rules

I think that having a combined Defence/Nomination phase, no talking at night, and a (not especially enforced or observed) 'get on and vote' policy during voting all help the mob - not that they needed it here. The citizens only win by people talking, and any restriction on talking limits the opportunities for the guilty to give themselves away.

Compulsory voting and absolute majorities to lynch worked well (they don't always if there are slow players - which didn't apply here). Unlimited nominations are definitely right.

Thanks to vie for running the game. I'll now always think of you as the Red Cat Goddess.


If we have enough people interested in a second game, I'd quite like to try running one. But I'll await confirmation from the hosts on that.

[ 30. November 2010, 15:31: Message edited by: Eliab ]
 

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Posted by CuppaT (# 10523) on :
 
For my part, I suspected AR especially. More than that, I knew she was a Guardian. She acted just like the game before. And when she Aaaarghed me, like I did before when she won, well, I just grrrred in my heart. I swear, you just can't be right even most of the time.

The other one I was sure about after demise was Madoc. He and Rose, I thought, were in cahoots on purpose, in view and behind the scenes. It would have been a fairly good strategy because it goes against expectations.

Then again, psychology does not seem to work well for any of us.

I acted like a cat. 'Tis my only defense. And I really liked Leetle Masha's link!

Could we wait perhaps until after Christmas for a new game? It does rather take over one's life, you know. I am not on the Ship half so much as at Mafia time. During some of the suspenseful parts I was checking quite frequently. And those Nights were very long indeed. My whole family was involved with this game, and it was a subject at the greater family Thanksgiving time, too.

I like this style of game, but another fun one, too, was the year Mafia was one person who killed off people one at a time when they posted on another thread. As I happened to be the killer and was never suspected till the end, it was fun. But again, it did require a lot of time. Because of the rules, though, I posted then more than ever.

Good Game!
CuppaT
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I also liked the compulsory voting rule.

I take it as a compliment that CuppaT thinks I played this time (Citizen) just as I did last time (Mafia). It means my camouflage-when-Mafia skills are in good order (not, though, that they're of any use to me when spotting other Mafia, alas).
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Eliab:
Dafyd had me completely fooled throughout. I think that even if we had lynched Madoc on Day 4, that being the first clear clue the Guardians let slip, we'd never have come around to suspecting Dai.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Banner Lady:
But I agree that one person being able to be given two roles does muddy the waters rather a lot. What do others think of the Red Cat Goddess's innovation there?

I don't mind not knowing how many mafia there are; but did multiple role giving mess things a bit too much for the citizens to have any chance?

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I don't think it matters. My observation from the previous games is that one can't use reason to deduce who's mafia and who isn't. One could make plausible assumptions about who is guilty and who is innocent, and one could make eloquent arguments that sound logical, but those arguments won't actually be dictated by pure reason.

So, since you can't know who is who, you might as well vote at random. And the fact that you can't know who is who, is the reason that led me to make my character rather colorful. Since we can't win based on reason, we might as well enjoy it and hope that luck will be with our side.

Having a player that could turn to the Dark Side made things a bit more colorful, and it perplexed those who believe that there can be drawn logical conclusions based on the players' behavior, but it didn't affect players that don't believe that.

The way things evolved, I could swear Eli was a criminal mastermind, because such bad luck (and this is an interesting choice of word, since Eliab's points were very plausible) seemed very unlikely. Yet he was whiter than snow.

I had a hunch about Seth, but hunches usually don't mean much. And even when I was right, I had to vote against someone other than the Seth I had nominated, if I wanted my vote to have any meaningful result, because of the influence some other players had on the rest.

Lt. Madoc and Dai Mortal, for some reason, confused my radars completely, so I preferred to ignore them when I made my calculations.

But generally speaking, I knew the mafia could easily win unless they made big mistakes. I was a bit surprised by the bad record we managed to get.

When the hostess notified me that I was going to be a citizen, I went

So, no I don't think it mattered much, and I'll be delighted to see even more novelties next time the game is on.

[ 30. November 2010, 20:01: Message edited by: El Greco ]
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Good game, all. Thanks, vie, for running it! I enjoyed it even though I died...
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
For all I know, those were your real initial misconceptions.

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They were my real initial misconceptions. For that matter, I think my analysis was genuinely how I'd have been thinking if I'd been innocent.
 

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Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
Big thank you to l.v.e.r. for running the game! I enjoyed it muchly and spent far more time on the Ship than usual.
And congratulations to Dai, Seth and Madoc who played a perfect game!
The three Guardians all registered as inconspicuous on my radar (even though I once felt Dai was agreeing with me in a funny way) - but so did some of the quieter innocents.

Unlike the IRL version of the game there is nothing to be gained by keeping quiet and observing players talking (blushing when they lie - always gives me away )

As for lynching a known mason - it was a mistake partly brought on by the unclarity of the rules (double roles are not conducive imo). The more roles there are the more complicated the rules become and the more likely one is to omit necessary clarifications at the start (e.g. what happens if Mafia hit a veteran protected by the doctor - that is important info for the doctor and for Mafia and may not easily be imparted later without disclosing additional information). When I occasionally test-play games with game authors they usually proceed by starting with a simple version and step by step complicating the rules rather than the other way round. It is quite difficult. (And don't take it as personal criticism, L.v.e.r. - just shsring thoughts for future games).

Forgive me, but I still do not undertand your behaviour, Eli - your arguments seem to me erratic and illogically jumping to far-reaching conclusions even now that it made me switch positions and assume a mason-defector - a folly. This issue took much of our attention and killed a known mason.

I'd be curious to know on what bases the Guardians decided whom to kill by night.
And whether you co-ordinated your daytime voting or left it to individual preference.

And yes, I am certainly going to talk less next time. I don't think I even once publicly suspected, let alone nominated a Guardian, so there was not much useful thinking from the only Frog in the camp.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Chronicles of the All-Seeing Red Cat Goddess / Post-mortem:

The Guardians of Senkhet were AristonAstuanax, fletcher christian and Dafyd.

Herrick was Hercule Poirot.

Autenrieth Road was the doctor.

Eliab, Hart and Smudgie were masons. Hart was additionally the miller.

Everyone else was a standard issue citizen.

*I thought at least half of you should be citizens – I thought it was interesting that you spent so long discussing roles that I hadn’t allocated, because you took for granted the ones that you knew were there. Three of you were masons, but you kind of forgot that this wasn’t a given. The fact that there were masons in the camp (and also a miller, who I guess most of you didn’t think I’d be cruel enough to give out), meant that other roles were numerically less likely. I was hoping for some interesting results from the mason-miller, a player who some of you definitely knew to be innocent and someone else would believe to be definitely guilty, but in the end the early departure of Hercule Poirot meant that this didn’t play out. Instead it left you all pondering the possibility of dual roles, which I hadn’t been thinking of (Teufelchen had already done this in the mediaeval game).*

The first night saw the assassination of Archie Whisker, a non-playing character I had invented for this specific purpose (in my mighty spreadsheet, I had his role down as “corpse” ) I think we all seem to agree that getting done in before you’ve had any chance to play is a bit rubbish so this seemed like the fairest thing to me.

In a departure from the way this game is most commonly played around here, the mafia played an aggressive strategy from the start, which worked out well for them. The first nomination, for Rose Autenrieth, came from the mob, and then AR decided to make a second one, feeling a bit lonely in the dock all on her own. The mob then tried to push for a lynching, and in what was apparently a rather unexpected move, all voted in favour of lynching Professor McBride. This means that Eliab’s plan to look among the no-lynching voters wasn’t a bad idea in itself, but it was unfortunately wrong, and it suited the Guardians to play along with it. The rest of you were less certain about lynching so early and no one got lynched. (At this point, I found out – as Sylvander’s proxy – that he was playing a rather idiosyncratic strategy all of his own, which he can tell you about himself, if he wants to…)

On the second night, Herrick found out that Professor McBride was innocent, before returning to his tent and promptly getting murdered, ensuring that the citizens would receive no more detectivey information. I’m sure the mob will set me straight if I’m wrong about this, but so early in the game I suspect this was more luck than judgment. At this point, Eli Abrahams decided that McBride should swing (ironically the only person Hercule Poirot had found innocent), the mafia tried a nomination of their own, and Arsène Beauregard tried to string up Eli Abrahams just for kicks. This brought the masons out of the woodwork. The vote was a landslide and McBride bought the farm.

Next night, the imam got it (Miss Rose was once again staked outside Eli’s tent), and revealed the presence of the masons for certain. There was a veritable flurry of nominations, but in the end the vote was another landslide, with even the condemned woman (Lady Bernadine, whose ear had been poisoned by Lt Madoc’s suggestion that Eli was a defector) voting for her own execution.

Moving onwards and upwards, the Guardians next proved their hatred of moustaches by bumping off Tavish McCallum, while Rose was once again guarding Eli. Suspicions abounded, Miss Smudge wanted to know why Andrew hated the masons so much, Arsène carried on suspecting Papagena, which led to Eli suspecting Arsène, and Andrew was right about Seth. Unfortunately no one else believed him and he got lynched.

The following night, the Guardians did away with Eli – ironically the first time that the doctor hadn’t been protecting him. AR was looking out for Smudgie instead (at least securing the supply of hot tea would be maintained). In the following nominations, only innocents were nominated, and the hieroglyphics were effectively on the wall.

Nonetheless, the following night, a little honour was saved (or the agony was prolonged, depending on how you look at it) when Rose rescued Miss Smudge from the clutches of the mob. Since the rules state that the mafia must outnumber the surviving citizens to win the game (there were now 3 of each), I decided to make them wait to do the victory dance. Lynching Arsène finally pushed them over the line.

Moderating was an interesting experience for me – knowing the whole truth and looking at my screen yelling “you’re wrong wrong wrongity WRONG!!” Hope you enjoyed it, anyway. And well played by a very canny mob.

(If someone wants to start a new game, the Red Cat would like to play)
 

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Posted by Amorya (# 2652) on :
 
I've been playing a lot of Werewolf lately, both in real life and on another forum. (It's the same game but with a werewolf theme.) I would be up for moderating one, if people would like. Alternatively, if someone else wants to, I'll join in the next

Amorya
 

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Posted by AristonAstuanax (# 10894) on :
 
I was thinking about hosting a game even before we got started with this one; however, it does seem like a good idea to wait until the new year-after Christmas and End Of Term stuff is over.
And yes, taking down Hercule was more than just dumb luck-we thought that he would soon be on to us and had good ideas. Best to take him out early, before anyone starts believing them.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
But how on earth did you suspect Herrick of being Poirot, in just one round?
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
But how on earth did you suspect Herrick of being Poirot, in just one round?

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AristonAstuanax may correct me, but I don't think we thought he was the detective. Rather, he was clever enough to be dangerous and was keeping quiet. The other person we thought about was Papagena, also keeping quiet.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Ah. Rereading what AristonAstuanax said I see that now.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
For the record, anyone is welcome to host a new game whenever they want (although it's probably best to only have one going at once ) It will be best to start a new thread though, both for tidiness and publicity.

iF
Circus host
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
For the record, anyone is welcome to host a new game whenever they want

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quote:

---

Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
The mob then tried to push for a lynching, and in what was apparently a rather unexpected move, all voted in favour of lynching Professor McBride. This means that Eliab’s plan to look among the no-lynching voters wasn’t a bad idea in itself, but it was unfortunately wrong, and it suited the Guardians to play along with it.

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My mistake, then.

I have never understood why people so often vote for 'no lynching' on day 1. Essentially, it's a vote to decline the first move and start the real game one player down. Why? The town needs to lynch to win, and gets so few chances to do that, that passing one up seems to me to be obviously bad.

Whereas I do see a good reason for the Mafia to join in with a mistaken consensus not to lynch - it's inconspicuous, and the Mafia don't need to lynch to win anyway.

But ( ) I've played often enough to know that whatever I think of the strategy, loads of citizens will always abstain on the first day - so it was an unsafe assumption. Obviously.


One question: why did the Guardians even try for a kill on the last night? They were safe from lynching, and Dafyd had obviously worked out that with three Guardians left, the only thing that could possibly stop them was a miraculous doctor/veteren combo that night (or possibly a doctor/vigilante combo the next time with no lynching) - because he said so on the thread. Was it that you thought that Smudgie, as a Mason, wasn't going to be a veteren as well?
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
One question: why did the Guardians even try for a kill on the last night? They were safe from lynching, and Dafyd had obviously worked out that with three Guardians left, the only thing that could possibly stop them was a miraculous doctor/veteren combo that night - because he said so on the thread. Was it that you thought that Smudgie, as a Mason, wasn't going to be a veteren as well?

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