Thread: Hell: Lucy Meadows Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Mrs Shrew (# 8635) on :
 
A teacher has died, with the police using the terminology which normally means suicide.

She has been hounded by press since Christmas and and article in the Daily Mail, because her school supported her to return to work after the Christmas break known by her new name of Miss Meadows (previously Mr.....).

Press have been camped outside her house and the school, haranguing parents and teachers, and writing hand wringing articles over damage to children.

For fucks sake - do none of them actually consider that seeing their teacher hounded and miserable because of the press, having their school environment interefered with by crowds of reporters and then having to deal with grief at her death might actually be the damaging thing for these children?

I'm just so bloody angry and frustrated that this is STILL HAPPENING even with all the publicity around the Leveson enquiry. And that people would actually think it is okay to do this to someone.

A friend said that what really hurts them is knowing this woman wont be the last, and being helpless to stop this happening again to others. I'm inclined to agree.

Link (its from the guardian, so pretty left wing, but it isn't behind a pay wall. Searching will bring up a ton of others)

[ 10. November 2014, 18:26: Message edited by: Belisarius ]
 

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Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on :
 
Horrific!
Lucy
 

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Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Mrs Shrew:
A teacher has died, with the police using the terminology which normally means suicide.

She has been hounded by press since Christmas and and article in the Daily Mail, because her school supported her to return to work after the Christmas break known by her new name of Miss Meadows (previously Mr.....).

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A teacher or pupil at a primary school changing sex and returning to the same school is, I think, worthy of some discussion. I've never tried to explain transsexuals to a five-year-old: I know some children who would shrug their shoulders and say "OK", and some who I suspect wouldn't stop asking questions. I know I would prefer not to have that conversation, but I don't know that my preferences outweigh the preference of a teacher or pupil undergoing a sex change to remain at the same school.

So I can't fault the initial article - I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had. I also couldn't fault a follow-up article three months later, say, that discussed how the new Miss Meadows had been accepted into the school community.

But the kind of prurient scum that lurks about trying to sneak photos of her (probably for no better reason than a nasty little piece in some tabloid called "I bet you can tell she's a man really" or something, are beyond the pale.
 

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Posted by Dark Knight (# 9415) on :
 
Very sorry to hear about this.
for her and those who were close to her.
 

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Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on :
 

 

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Posted by Evangeline (# 7002) on :
 
There are probably some issues about how transexuals manage their transformation socially and how institutions can support them, especially in environments such as schools that need to be worked through and it's comparatively early days in this process but for the media to behave in such a cruel, harassing and invasive way is quite unforgivable. FFS, I thought the phone tapping scandal had at least made the bottom feeders at least a bit scared of the consequences of their callous disregard for feelings and common standards of decency.

for Lucy, her family and the school community
 

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Posted by passer (# 13329) on :
 
Richard Littlejohn is scum of the first order. His article vanished from the Mail website pretty damn sharpish after news of the suicide emerged, and the Mail has been unusually reticent on the subject. Littlejohn epitomizes all that is wrong with tabloid journalism in the UK. His "opinion" pieces are nothing more than onanistic malice. I am sure that karma will visit Mr Littlejohn.
 

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Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :
 
Wot passer said. This Uncyclopedia tells you everything you need to know about him.

Richard Littlejohn clearly has something very wrong with his sexuality. See here:

quote:

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A nagging feeling that, to some, anything to do with homosexuality remains fascinatingly transgressive forces us to conduct the annual Littlejohn audit. Behold then the results. In the past year's Sun columns, Richard has referred 42 times to gays, 16 times to lesbians, 15 to homosexuals, eight to bisexuals, twice to "homophobia" and six to being "homophobic" (note his scornful inverted commas), five times to cottaging, four to "gay sex in public toilets", three to poofs, twice to lesbianism, and once each to buggery, dykery, and poovery. This amounts to 104 references in 90-odd columns - an impressive increase on his 2003 total of 82 mentions.

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Originally posted by Anglican't:
He doesn't say that Lucy Meadows is a bad teacher or that she shouldn't be allowed to teach, but suggested that, post-transition, she ought to have found a new teaching post where she could start afresh.

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quote:

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By insisting on returning to St Mary Magdalen’s, he is putting his own selfish needs ahead of the well-being of the children he has taught for the past few years.

[...] If he cares so little for the sensibilities of the children he is paid to teach, he’s not only trapped in the wrong body, he’s in the wrong job.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Mrs Shrew:
Note particularly from Ricardus' quote there, that he is refusing to use the feminine pronouns that Lucy had requested - this is downright rude.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anglican't:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mrs Shrew:
Note particularly from Ricardus' quote there, that he is refusing to use the feminine pronouns that Lucy had requested - this is downright rude.

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But in the article generally he refers to Mr Upton, not Miss Meadows. Where he does refer to Miss Meadows he uses female pronouns.

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But why is such monstering considered acceptable? Why are trans people the last bastion of cheap titillation for the press? My answer is this. It is quite simply, due to alpha male patriarchy. The same type of people who snigger at Lucy Meadows are also journalists, because hey presto! Journalists have prejudices too, and the national press gives them a platform to air them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anglican't:

quote:

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Originally posted by Mrs Shrew:
Note particularly from Ricardus' quote there, that he is refusing to use the feminine pronouns that Lucy had requested - this is downright rude.

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But in the article generally he refers to Mr Upton, not Miss Meadows. Where he does refer to Miss Meadows he uses female pronouns.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
I've never tried to explain transsexuals to a five-year-old: I know some children who would shrug their shoulders and say "OK", and some who I suspect wouldn't stop asking questions. I know I would prefer not to have that conversation, but I don't know that my preferences outweigh the preference of a teacher or pupil undergoing a sex change to remain at the same school.

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quote:

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Originally posted by luvanddaisies:

Now only the most bonkers of right-wing bigots would trot out that idea. It's only going to be a matter of time, and probably not much of it, that transgender teachers are accepted too.

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You wish. Bigotry's a long time dying.
 

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Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :
 
There'll still be a few, but the general tide will eventually turn, and the prejudiced witch-hunters will find themselves more and more in the minority and no longer socially acceptable.
 

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Posted by no prophet (# 15560) on :
 
The press's pursuit of the freedom of the press has limits. Are no restraining orders and injunctions available there? Does not human rights legislation prevent discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender etc? Clearly she was harassed, and the level of it would warrant investigation for what in Canada would be a criminal offence for stalking/criminal harassment.
 

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Posted by Gextvedde (# 11084) on :
 
I wish I'd never heard this story. I wish the press (by which I mean amoral fucktards for whom anything is a fucking story) would realise that a lot of people don't want to read their bollocks opinions about other peoples lifestyles. I wish people like Miss Meadows could have got on with, what was clearly a difficult time, without these wankers hounding her. Fuck all of you and the shit rags you splutter your wankstained words out of.

For Lucy & family
 

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Posted by anne (# 73) on :
 
I think that many children consider that most things that adults do and say are strange and conform to weird rules that haven't been fully explained yet.

When a friend married during the Easter holidays she returned to her reception class as Mrs Y, having been Miss X. The children had been very excited about the wedding and had made cards and drawn lovely pictures of the bride and groom. At the end of the first week of term a small boy asked her "what will you be called next week?" I'm sure he though that if she could change her name once she could do it again, because grown-ups might do anything.

Carefully explained and handled I don't think that these children need have found it any more difficult to cope with the knowledge that their teacher used to be Mr X and is now Miss Y. Because all grown-ups are strange and might do anything.

Their parents and other teachers, of course might well have found it more difficult, since their ideas of what grown-ups should and should not do have become fixed - and had more time to be influenced by the likes of Mr Littlejohn.
 

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Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on :
 
The reason adults think that children will have difficulty understanding something is usually because the adults are having the problem with comprehension. In my experience, children are remarkably flexible and open with their worldview.

Hell, y'all accept the Doctor's transitioned 11 times, what's so surprising about folks who are just doing it the once? (This, by the way, is courtesy of my dear friend, who's trans, and who I spent a lot of yesterday comforting because of this and several other pieces of news.)

Anyway, I hope the douchebag from the Daily Mail gets a very itchy infection that does not respond to antibiotics (where, precisely, said itchy infection is located I will leave up to God).
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
news

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Arizona: Making Alaska look good since 1912.

Bless their little bronze age hearts.

[ 24. March 2013, 02:52: Message edited by: comet ]
 

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Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
It seems to me that it was very brave (verging on reckless) of Miss Meadows to return to the same school; many others would probably have tried to find a job somewhere else, and I wouldn't blame them. However, that doesn't excuse the scum-bags who have hounded her to her death.

The head of Information Services in my last job (in a multi-campus university) went through a sex-change operation about 15 years ago. As he was based on another campus I didn't know him (I only met him once - as a man) but I understand that he went on leave as Nigel and came back as Nicki. Like Lucy, he was married with a young family (older than hers: they were in primary school). Nigel/Nicki didn't stay in the job or the area for very long after the story broke; the area was generally better known for bigotry than tolerance.

It hit the local press at about the same time as a similar story broke nationally about an eminent Harley Street doctor who had treated the Queen Mother; it seemed that only the names had been changed. IIRC someone remarked (of the doctor) that he had chosen to remain as a man until he got to the top of his profession, his ambition presumably outweighing the feeling of being in the wrong body.

for Lucy and her family; may she rest in peace.

[ 24. March 2013, 02:56: Message edited by: piglet ]
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
My daughter is not yet five, and one of her pastors has transitioned. She has so little trouble with it that currently she is planning to marry her brother after he transitions. (He is an infant, so his opinion on wanting to marry her or wanting to transition is as of yet apparently irrelevant.)
 

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Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :
 
Kids are very open to new ideas. And that's precisely why some adults are so damn terrified of them hearing things that the adults don't, for whatever reason, personally like.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Littlejohn is an arse. However Miss Meadows did not die solely as a result of his rude piece.
 

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Posted by goperryrevs (# 13504) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
The reason adults think that children will have difficulty understanding something is usually because the adults are having the problem with comprehension. In my experience, children are remarkably flexible and open with their worldview.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Littlejohn is an arse. However Miss Meadows did not die solely as a result of his rude piece.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Spiffy:
The reason adults think that children will have difficulty understanding something is usually because the adults are having the problem with comprehension. In my experience, children are remarkably flexible and open with their worldview.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Great Gumby:

quote:

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Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Littlejohn is an arse. However Miss Meadows did not die solely as a result of his rude piece.

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That's for the coroner to decide.

Even if TinyPenis's vile dribble had nothing to do with her subsequent death (something I consider vanishingly unlikely), I don't think it should substantially affect our reaction. The article wasn't wrong because someone died, it was wrong because it was vile. Hanging everything on the fact that someone died, whether it was directly related or not, would be giving too much importance to one person's mental state and any number of subtle but uncontrollable influences.

That Miss Meadows appears to have killed herself makes the vileness more obvious and higher profile, but it has no bearing on whether the "thoughts" of this "journalist" (I can do scare quotes as well) were in any way suitable for publication anywhere, let alone in a popular and allegedly respectable (ha!) national newspaper.

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quote:

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Originally posted by leo:

quote:

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Originally posted by The Great Gumby:

quote:

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Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Littlejohn is an arse. However Miss Meadows did not die solely as a result of his rude piece.

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That's for the coroner to decide.

Even if TinyPenis's vile dribble had nothing to do with her subsequent death (something I consider vanishingly unlikely), I don't think it should substantially affect our reaction. The article wasn't wrong because someone died, it was wrong because it was vile. Hanging everything on the fact that someone died, whether it was directly related or not, would be giving too much importance to one person's mental state and any number of subtle but uncontrollable influences.

That Miss Meadows appears to have killed herself makes the vileness more obvious and higher profile, but it has no bearing on whether the "thoughts" of this "journalist" (I can do scare quotes as well) were in any way suitable for publication anywhere, let alone in a popular and allegedly respectable (ha!) national newspaper.

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People are urging the Mail to sack Littlejon.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:

So I can't fault the initial article - I think there's a legitimate discussion to be had. I also couldn't fault a follow-up article three months later, say, that discussed how the new Miss Meadows had been accepted into the school community

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quote:

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Originally posted by Liopleurodon:
Whenever bigots don't want kids to learn about some aspect of life "because they're too young" that is, in a weird way, usually exactly what they mean. "They're young and therefore open-minded and nonjudgemental - I don't want them to learn about this thing I disapprove of until they're old enough to have absorbed plenty of cultural baggage and become bigoted themselves. Then we can talk about it."

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Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
TinyPenis isn't the problem, he's a symptom. In a sensible world, he'd be propping up the saloon bar of some rancid pub, preaching his filth to a landlord who only puts up with it because he needs the business. But here in the real world, people apparently want to read it and the Heil can get away with it, so they'll continue to publish this sort of thing either way. They'd probably just get Jan Moir or Melanie Phillips to write it instead.

I know it's hard to forget about TinyPenis, the elephant-sized bigot in the room, but he really shouldn't be the main focus here. This is clear evidence of how broken the system is, at a time when press regulation has never been higher profile. This campaign should be general and political - post-Leveson regulation must be sufficient to prevent this sort of thing from happening, at the very least. Calling for the sacking of a single person is missing the point on an epic scale.

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quote:

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Originally posted by The Great Gumby:
But here in the real world, people apparently want to read it and the Heil can get away with it, so they'll continue to publish this sort of thing either way. They'd probably just get Jan Moir or Melanie Phillips to write it instead.

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Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
They could get Julie Birchill to write it. Apparently she wrote a column in the Observer (no longer on their website, and I haven't read it) where she referred to transgender people as "screaming minis" and "bed wetters in bad wigs".

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quote:

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Originally posted by Anglican't:

quote:

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Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
They could get Julie Birchill to write it. Apparently she wrote a column in the Observer (no longer on their website, and I haven't read it) where she referred to transgender people as "screaming minis" and "bed wetters in bad wigs".

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Toby Young republished the article on his blog.

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Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
It does read like the sort of thing someone might write on a bulletin-board, then very much regret the next day.

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Originally posted by anne:
[QB] I think that many children consider that most things that adults do and say are strange and conform to weird rules that haven't been fully explained yet.

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I thought I could handle Hell, but I didn't realize it was going to have people telling stories about cute things their little children said. I fear vacation travel photos are next. ;-)

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