Thread: Circus: The Dungeon Master's Guild: constructing a Ship- friendly RPG Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
The post - mortum of the last Mafia game lead to a discussion of forming a more team- based roleplaying game.

This thread is not intended for starting that game, but for nailing down some rules and procedures that would make game play feasible.

One wish or mine is that we come up with something like GORPS-- that is, a set of rules that can be easily modified to any game setting. Sci-fi, medieval, WWI, whatever.

One concern of mine is how to introduce a genuinely random element that can be verified by the players. All kinds if kooky ideas pop into my head-- maybe we can use published NASDEQ quotes? Temperatures?

Or would it be easiest to leave the random elements to the GMs, have them do the PC characters stat rolls for them? Aren't some game modules run like this?

[ 30. December 2014, 01:06: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
I think the best would be a public way of rolling dice, agreed on beforehand, because otherwise the GM would have to be super-hyperactive. I sort of expect a GM to have to be hyperactive anyway, but adding more weight to their burden seems very intense to me. But then I've never done this before and have no idea how much dice rolls can be concentrated to a single time or how much it would be a matter of ongoing development.

That's also a general question of mine, I think. How is time calculated? Are there turns? Deadlines? If so, how long would be a reasonable amount of time?
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
For some reason I was imagining a GM team-- probably for that reason, it seems like a bitch to handle alone. Also, my ex and his BFF often ran games together. Just seems to make sense in terms of how spread out we are, time wise.

As for the public dice rolling-- how would that work? I can't come up with an idea myself that can't be easily tweaked. It would be easier to let the players roll their own hits, and invoke the Curse of the Gator to maintain the Honor Code.

[ 24. April 2014, 17:07: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Also ( re reading JFH 's post) whatever rules we come up with should be really sparse and spare. Like, if there is a RPG specifically designed for grade school kids to learn basic roleplaying, that is the rulebook we should be using. I can't think of anything more tedious than sitting and reading post after post that only amount to a detailed recitation of a player's handbook.
 

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Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

As for the public dice rolling-- how would that work? I can't come up with an idea myself that can't be easily tweaked. It would be easier to let the players roll their own hits, and invoke the Curse of the Gator to maintain the Honor Code.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Gwai:
For online dice rolls, what about a random number generator?

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Random.org also does a dice roll, with up to 60 dice.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Another option would be using the Amber diceless system.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Some others that could be considered can be found here.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Boy, did those last two resources intrigue me. I just need to get to a proper keyboard to explain why. For niw-- thanks, DT.

The lotto idea is intriguingly concrete... I actually have played an RPG with a deck of cards, but that carries the same problem as dice-unless the draw is relegated to a non-player, you have to rely on everyone agreeing to resist the temptation to re- draw.

Speaking for myself, the gator curse eould keep me sharply in line.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Could someone give a small precis of a RPG? It sounds like there are a lot of numeral things, and rolling dice to decide what happens -- like the battles in Risk. Where does the RP come in?

[ 25. April 2014, 00:59: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
You actually get to do some improve acting.

Imagine "risk" with the soldiers bitching about their commanders, writing letters to their spouses, and scouring the local villages for provisions.

People differ on this, but IMO the most entertaining games are less about some battle to be won,but about a quest to be completed-- so that a full spectrum if interaction happens along the way. One scene you might be rolling stats to see if you survive in battle, the next to see if you can successfully eavesdrop on a street conversation regarding missing treasure, the next you roll your lock picking skills to get a comrade out of jail after a drunken punch- up.
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
The question I always had about SoF RPG's is fights. I know that under DnD (at least 3.0/3.5 rules, which are the ones I know/follow/will swear on a stack of game manuals are Garl Glittergold's Only True Rules), fights take for-frikkin'-ever, since you have to roll for everything—initiative, roll to hit, roll for damage, roll to evade, saving throws, etc. Given that we're in separate time zones, I don't see that working so well; even if you get a set of attack/damage/etc. rolls done all at once, you're going to have to go around the world in order to make one combat round.

And that's assuming your rogue's in Japan, your fighter in England, and the wizard in the States. Lord help you if your bard's Californian, the ranger French, and sorcerer in Fiji. DnD was not meant for time zones.

That said, a bit of Google-fu reveals we're not the first to try this; I remember the Spiderweb Software forums trying something vaguely RPG'ish before*; and there have to be solutions to this somewhere. This Will Happen.

*Like text- and plot- heave RPG's that will eat away at your life and substitute for a good novel? You owe it to yourself to play one of Jeff Vogel's games. Really. His blog on game design and trying to make it as an indie publisher is worth reading as well.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Exactly to all of the above.

The exciting and daunting thing about this conversation is that it feels like whatever we come up with will be a truly unique Ship creation.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston:
The question I always had about SoF RPG's is fights. I know that under DnD (at least 3.0/3.5 rules, which are the ones I know/follow/will swear on a stack of game manuals are Garl Glittergold's Only True Rules), fights take for-frikkin'-ever, since you have to roll for everything—initiative, roll to hit, roll for damage, roll to evade, saving throws, etc. Given that we're in separate time zones, I don't see that working so well; even if you get a set of attack/damage/etc. rolls done all at once, you're going to have to go around the world in order to make one combat round.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Could someone give a small precis of a RPG? It sounds like there are a lot of numeral things, and rolling dice to decide what happens -- like the battles in Risk. Where does the RP come in?

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It is a sort of communal story telling really. Typically you have a gamesmaster, and a group of players. The GM has an overarching plot for the players, and acts any people they meet. The players each have a character with specific knowledge and abilities, and the group of players will be told they have some sort of mission.

For example, your mayor has offered a bounty to anyone who can get rid of the dragon in them there hills - the six of you have volunteered. You meet in the town inn to discuss your next move.

Then players describe what they are doing and why:

Tarick goes to the bar for another round, he is not much interested in the details of the fight Cedric is outlining with chainmail nets and such - he comes back saying - there isn't really a dragon you know. They don't exist, our best bet is to hide in the forest and see if we can spot the arsonist in action.

(Other players chip in thinking this a great idea, and start discussing whether you deliver the arsonist to the town but make the mayor look dumb - and does he therefore weasel out of giving the bounty - or do you beat the arsonist to a pulp and then fake evidence of your victory over the dragon.)

Meanwhile, the GM is having a minor panic attack because they have planned a traditional dragon slaying and have all the materials planned etc. Now they have to decide whether to stick to their guns, and have the players lie in wait and see the dragon afterall or follow the player's invention and improvise. They might make Tarick make an ideas roll, to see if he thinks of this, or a persuasion roll to see if the others agree with him.

Say they are persuaded so the GM thinks - stuff it they can have the arsonist then - perhaps I'll use my dragon material later when they try to pull this again in another town and find there really is a dragon.

Lying in wait they may need to roll for perception to see if they see the arsonist sneaking past them, or sneaking up behind them with the moonlight faintly glinting off the blade as he raises his knife ...
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
I think I think Doublethink just involuntarily volunteered for GM.

(Not really, mostly just brilliant depiction, writing and more, getting me, a beginner to non-video games RPGs, really, really excited.)
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I actually have played an RPG with a deck of cards, but that carries the same problem as dice-unless the draw is relegated to a non-player, you have to rely on everyone agreeing to resist the temptation to re- draw.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston:
The question I always had about SoF RPG's is fights. I know that under DnD (at least 3.0/3.5 rules, which are the ones I know/follow/will swear on a stack of game manuals are Garl Glittergold's Only True Rules)

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quote:

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fights take for-frikkin'-ever, since you have to roll for everything—initiative, roll to hit, roll for damage, roll to evade, saving throws, etc. Given that we're in separate time zones, I don't see that working so well; even if you get a set of attack/damage/etc. rolls done all at once, you're going to have to go around the world in order to make one combat round.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I actually have played an RPG with a deck of cards, but that carries the same problem as dice-unless the draw is relegated to a non-player, you have to rely on everyone agreeing to resist the temptation to re- draw.

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A non-player or the GM. Or if you don't have a GM give one player the right to draw cards and make them publicise it.

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The more i think about that idea, the more I like it. A non player pulling the cards-maybe give them a light NPC role so the can have some fun with it.

Someone up there warned against dumping too much on the GM, so the idea of creating a separate draw position gets my vote. Maybe even a couple such positions to address time zone issues.

Doublethink, love your précis. Especially your take on the GM experience.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Actually, thinking about it - how comfortable is everyone with the idea of a simple "honor code", and everyone calling their own rolls? Because I personally would be willing to try it that way. I presume everyone would be in it to have fun, and not dick each other over.
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
I have to admit I'd just let the players draw their own cards/roll their own numbers. Well, mostly because I'm relatively trusting, but also because I don't see much advantage to cheating. We would all be playing together in the party toward similar goals. If you don't smite the orc, well someone else probably will, and if no one else is able to help you with the orc then the whole party is in trouble, and the DM may step in to make things less likely to slaughter everyone!

Cross-posted with Kelly. Looks like we agree.

[ 25. April 2014, 16:13: Message edited by: Gwai ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Yeah, I realize I probably introduced the whole issue, but
I think I was trying to anticipate potential arguments against online play. If nobody else is bothered, neither am I.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I'm perfectly happy with honor code for the rolls. In any case, adverse rolls might give more avenue for flights of fancy (thank you Doublethink for the awesome example!).

Do we get to decide who we want to be, or do we get assigned roles in some way, that we then flesh out within broad parameters?
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Adverse rolls make life fun for everyone .

As to character generation- basically you choose your own character, but in order to add realism and more random chance to the game, a basic character is given a list of abilities and attributes, and you roll to assign a strength level to each one. Again, honor code-- the protocol I was taught was that it's Ok to roll up an entirely new set of stats for a character if you don't like how they came out, but re- rolling separate stats is anathema. (Stats= strength level of abilities/ attributes.

Also, I'd just like to state for the record that I am squeamish about attaching traits and abilities too firmly to race ( basically one of the fundamental motifs of D& D) .

[ 25. April 2014, 18:23: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Aaack! Everyone go read Eliab's post! It's excellent!
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I'm wondering what it would be like to engage in this adventure as the Grafiness Katy d'Eliabulon, an upstart who has showed up out of nowhere claiming to be on pilgrimage to pay homage to her relative, the Grafinn Ekaterina, by engaging in as much wickedness and trickery as possible. The real Eliabulons are all horrified by this imposter Katy, who can only provide a warped and inadequate image of the great nefariousness of the inimitable Ekaterina.

Or perhaps I could be a Hophto or an Ottrig, a creature of love and poetry, fond of hugs, waffles, and raisins.

Theodora Ios Bear (Teddy to many, Tibby to her close friends who know her middle name) thinks she doesn't much know what to do with either Dungeons or Dragons and is waiting for the next Good Ship Mafia to sail.

This is fun, dreaming of alternative identities.

[ 25. April 2014, 18:44: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
(How awesome was that Dysfunctional Family system, btw? Send them after the dragon!)
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I GMd an, um, interesting group of players once.

I would be in favour of a point buy system of character creation, just because it tends to leave you with more balanced characters and players get to get some control over the style of character they want play.

Simple roll system if we go with dice / random over number system - so big shiny gun just adds + x to your stat you don't do a million extra rolls for targetting etc. nice to have critical success (natural maximum roll) and critical fail (0) for story flavour.

Ideally we want to pinch a mechanic wholesale - I am not convinced D&D is the best to go for.

Found this on an rpg forum:

quote:

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I'm not sure if I ever saw this basic mechanic in a game or it just came up with a circle of friends BSing.

1) your attributes (strength, dex, int, etc.) are with a die. You go through the progression of d3, d4, d6, d8, d10, and d12.

2) your skills are a number and paired with an attribute. So, Guns skill would pair with dex. Your Dex being d8, and your guns being 3, you roll 3d8 for a guns roll.

3) Common sense role. If you take a max roll of a skill (24 for the guns roll above), and divide by 2. You succeed at any guns-related task with a target number of less than half max (11 or below; 12 or higher needs a roll in the example above). Insanely easy tasks shooting at point blank range with a dextrous character are covered. But to shoot a sniper rifle from 2 miles away in a crosswind is still going to be nigh on impossible. It also gives a sense of realism in that 1 character may be really good at guns, but another can't hit the broad side of a barn... but boy can he drive/program/cast-spells/whatever.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
I GMd an, um, interesting group of players once.

I would be in favour of a point buy system of character creation, just because it tends to leave you with more balanced characters and players get to get some control over the style of character they want play.

Simple roll system if we go with dice / random over number system - so big shiny gun just adds + x to your stat you don't do a million extra rolls for targetting etc. nice to have critical success (natural maximum roll) and critical fail (0) for story flavour.

Ideally we want to pinch a mechanic wholesale - I am not convinced D&D is the best to go for.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I actually have played an RPG with a deck of cards

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[tangent] My gaming group came up with an RPG system to play when all we had was a set of poker dice.

Every character had 10 skill points to spend on anything. Any task had a set difficult - "Ace High" for trivial, "Pair" for easy, "Three of a kind" for moderate, "pat hand" for hard. Every relevant skill point was one re-roll of any number of dice. Contested actions, like combat, had all participants roll, and best hand wins. It worked extremely well for a system invented in less time than it took to explain.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Poker dice definitely better than cards themselves, shuffling well is just hard
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I can just barely follow Doublethink's #1 and #2. #3 gives me a headache. And what's up with the rotating through various sides of dice? OK for setup, but as an ongoing thing I don't want to have to be remembering how many sides of a dice I should be rolling for each particular thing.

Eliab's Poker Dice solution sounds elegant and I can understand it. Not necessarily that that's what we'll follow. I'm just trying to illustrate what I'm having an easy time understanding, vs. what leaves me feeling like it's more numbers than I care to deal with.

I'm a complete D'n'D neophyte though. Maybe this is easier than it sounds once it's under way.
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I'm a complete D'n'D neophyte though. Maybe this is easier than it sounds once it's under way.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston:


Put me down as another fan of point-bid character setup; I've never much liked the dice-roll luck version, although a "you get sixty points to spend across these stats and skills, some of which may cost more than others" version might work too.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
I can just barely follow Doublethink's #1 and #2. #3 gives me a headache. And what's up with the rotating through various sides of dice? OK for setup, but as an ongoing thing I don't want to have to be remembering how many sides of a dice I should be rolling for each particular thing.

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From what I understand from computer based ones (and the games I played tended to mask the underlying mechanics quite well) (also from DarthsAndDroids).
The dice combinations gave 'interesting' subtle variations. And some rock-paper-sissor-pebble situations naturally occur. Which give you a buzz when you play them right or are lucky or otherwise develop. *

However I'd be in favour of something very simple. I'm pretty sure the 'simple' solution gets more complicated in the long run, but I think that that long run is more than we'll be going for?

*which is in a sense the point of the dice, to give your choices an actual effect.

[ 25. April 2014, 22:44: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
It think a very simple system would work fine if we give huge latitude to the GM to craft game play in ways that move the action along,and we agree to not bitch about it.

Or we can make a seperate "bitching about GM calls" thread to prevent game disruption.

[ 25. April 2014, 22:59: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Point buying, you have a set of points you distribute across a set of stats usually about six.

A point bid system, as in Amber, you bid against each other to be the best at some stat.

So five players, five levels of each stat. You can be useless, weak, ok, good or excellent at, say, strength - each player has 100 points. You A can bid 10 for strenth, the next player B might bid 9, the next C 15, D thinks - oh no you don't I am so going to be the fighter and bids 20, E thinks I am not getting into this, I am going to hold out for intelligence and bids 1.

So E gets useless strength, B gets weak strength, A gets OK strength, C gets good strength and D gets excellent strength.

Then you go on to bid for the next stat, intelligence say, but D now only has 80 points left to bid with and five stats to bid for, whilst E has useless strength but can afford to maybe bid as much as 30 to get excellent intelligence.

Its advantage over point buying is basically about making you prioritise, instead of fiddling around for ages trying to get the best of all things.

(I hope that's clear )

[ 25. April 2014, 23:02: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Hmmm... I think i prefer point buying, then. At least to begin with. Gives the players more of a chance to create a workable character.

( yes, it was clear, and thank you. I'm so glad you joined this discussion!)

[ 25. April 2014, 23:05: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Really simple would be:

You rank useless, weak, ok, good or excellent in each stat (less numbery) and anything you try to do will be either ridiculously easy (you only fail if you roll a 0), easy (roll over 5 on a D20) need effort (roll over 10) is hard (roll over 15) or ridiculously hard (must roll a natural 20).

GM tells you how hard a thing is based on your skill in the relevant stat.

(You would use a point buy or bid system to get your stat level.)

You would only need to roll one die for anything, and magic objects or weapons would just add a set bonus e.g. +1 to your roll.

Initiative would be a stat, not rolled every time.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Really simple would be:

You rank useless, weak, ok, good or excellent in each stat (less numbery) and anything you try to do will be either ridiculously easy (you only fail if you roll a 0), easy (roll over 5 on a D20) need effort (roll over 10) is hard (roll over 15) or ridiculously hard (must roll a natural 20).

GM tells you how hard a thing is based on your skill in the relevant stat.

(You would use a point buy or bid system to get your stat level.)

You would only need to roll one die for anything, and magic objects or weapons would just add a set bonus e.g. +1 to your roll.

Initiative would be a stat, not rolled every time.

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• Strength / hit points (simplest to make hit points = strength)
• Dexterity
• Intelligence
• Charisma / Charm
• Wisdom
• Constitution

Some other systems here: http://tinyurl.com/mvun6vj

There is no reason why we couldn't have Geekery, Sex Appeal, Soul, Speed, Good Luck & Muscles.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Ha!

The kid game had really stripped down stat categories-- I think it was thinking, moving, doing, something like that-- stuff that could be applied (sometimes in combination) in a variety of ways.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Also, i thought with point buying, you had standard attributes, but there were "electives" you could choose from. You just had to buy them from your point reserve like anything else.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Often, but that will complicate the system rapidly.

What you could do is have up to x number of skills. Any skill is directly related to a stat, magic to Soul, bluffing to sex appeal, pointy weapons to muscles etc. But if someone doesn't have the skill in the first place, then the task becomes automatically ridiculously hard.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Any skill is directly related to a stat, magic to Soul, bluffing to sex appeal, pointy weapons to muscles etc. But if someone doesn't have the skill in the first place, then the task becomes automatically ridiculously hard.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Any skill is directly related to a stat, magic to Soul, bluffing to sex appeal, pointy weapons to muscles etc. But if someone doesn't have the skill in the first place, then the task becomes automatically ridiculously hard.

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Surely someone who's got Soul must also be Super Bad, right?

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oh yeah - I also believe in narrative bonuses - +1 to your roll if your action is way cool
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Now a part of me wants a character to have Sechs (German for Six) Appeal, i.e. an ability to have rolls that end on a 6 count for +1 or something such.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
So loving the turn this conversation is taking.
 

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Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :
 

quote:

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Doublethink
Next issue would be how to resolve the impact of an action or damage.

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• Ridiculously Easy Success
• Easy Success
• OK Success
• Hard Success
• Ridiculously Hard Success = gain a related skill revealed in a narrative flourish by the GM
• Ridiculously Easy Fail = gain a scene specific detriment revealed in a narrative flourish by the GM e.g. The barkeep is offended by your attempt to haggle over the price of a room and refuses to hire you a room.
  
  Opposed Action
  [list]
• Useless vs Useless = OK Contest
• Useless vs Weak = Hard Contest
• Useless vs OK = Ridiculously Hard Contest
• Useless vs Good = Ridiculously Hard Contest
• Useless vs Excellent = Ridiculously Hard Contest
• Weak vs Useless = Easy Contest
• Weak vs Weak = OK Contest
• Weak vs OK = Hard Contest
• Weak vs Good = Ridiculously Hard Contest
• Weak vs Excellent = Ridiculously Hard Contest
• OK vs Useless = Ridiculously Easy Contest
• OK vs Weak = Easy Contest
• OK vs OK = OK Contest
• OK vs Good = Hard Contest
• OK vs Excellent = Ridiculously Hard Contest
• Good vs Useless = Ridiculously Easy Contest
• Good vs Weak = Ridiculously Easy Contest
• Good vs OK = Easy Contest
• Good vs Good = OK Contest
• Good vs Excellent = Hard Contest
• Excellent vs Useless = Ridiculously Easy Contest
• Excellent vs Weak = Ridiculously Easy Contest
• Excellent vs OK = Ridiculously Contest
• Excellent vs Good = Easy Contest
• Excellent vs Excellent = OK Contest

• Ridiculously Easy Contest Success - wound & leave for dead (recipient is unconscious, can't be attacked again unless they are seen to recover - or you are assassinating outside a combat scenario)
• Easy Contest Success - wound and disarm (recipient has no weapons bonus till next turn)
• OK Contest Success - wound
• Hard Contest Success - wound
• Ridiculously Hard Contest Success - wound & stun opponent, they can't hit you again for a turn

quote:

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Character Name:

Brief Physical Description:


Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 20 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

• Rank Wits
• Rank Finesse
• Rank Charm
• Rank Soul
• Rank Muscles
• Rank Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

• Slot 1 (tied potential)
• Slot 2 (tied potential)
• Slot 3 (tied potential)
• Slot 4 (tied potential)
• Slot 5 (tied potential)
• Slot 6 (tied potential)

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Eliab:
I've posted a poll here on game styles.

I'm happy to participate in any trial run.

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quote:

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Character Name: Prince Testwe Ka Rakta

Brief Physical Description:

20 years ago a printer dropped the pages for the pink guide to "bringing up "beautiful princesses" and "training heroic princes".
A couple of pages may have got muddled. This had massive repercussions in the land
Having been trained to prick himself on a spinning wheel needle buried under 40 mattresses, faint at will and over skills essential to fantasy princesses
(rather than the traditional princely ones) Prince Testwe can still show surprising dexterity and wits until his arm is grabbed or a stranger offers an apple.

Fortunately for all involved the pictures were put in afterwards and did match the titles.

Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 20 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

Weak(2) Rank Wits
Good(4) Rank Finesse
Excellent(5)Rank Charm
Good(4) Rank Soul
Useless(1) Rank Muscles
Good(4) Rank Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

Very Light sleeper (vigilence) Testwe is very alert at night as he can't sleep in 'rough' conditions
Needs rescuing (charm) Testwe may get in a lot of trouble but (proper) villains will only try to capture and all heros will rush to his aid (whether wise or not)
Impossible Intuition (wits) Provided there is no rational means of knowing something Testwe is much more likely to 'just know it'
Always their fault (soul) Although other characters may blame him for XYZ they will always apologise in the end
Unexpected Strength (soul) When dramatically appropriate can fight with increased strength, only to faint once the hero is alerted (etc...)
Told the plan (wits) When captured it is almost certain that the villain will say something useful

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.
(if can start with stuff)
Princely fine rapier
Flute
Spinning thing

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quote:

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Always their fault (soul) Although other characters may blame him for XYZ they will always apologise in the end.

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Brutal!
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I was thinking finesse would be similar to dexterity.

That character is fun, though your skills are what I would think of as perks.

It could be possible to run with just potentials and perks - though perk type things (called gimmicks in some games) would usually not have a roll, rather be either a thing that just happens - or give a +x type bonus to a main stat roll like charm. (At the moment, your skill list makes your character probably overpowered, he can't be killed, opponents tell him all their plans, and in addition to his stats, when things are really hard or obscure he wins.)

The sort of things that are skills in many systems are things such as; healing, lock picking, magic, light weapon use, ranged weapon use, heavy weapon use, research, barter, fast talk, science, repair etc

I agree complex turn sequences would usually be too much to manage, and that individual combat in parallel with other scenes is probably the way to go as described by dafyd above. Though I do think it would be nice to stage the occasional set piece at a designated hour for sixty minutes.

I think you should be allowed to post once a day (at length !) but not everything will require a roll.

[ 29. April 2014, 22:23: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
I'd say post as often as you like if the purpose is interaction with other players. It's only things that cause work for the GM are that are limited.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I'm inclined to agree, Dafyd. For me, 75% of the gaming fun is the banter between PCs. But perhaps the GM needs specific rules to help rein that in when necessary.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
I thought whatever rules the GM needed could be put in force ad hoc by pronunciation of GM authority. It may be that I'm wrong.

As for 20 points over 6 skills, it looks to me like that may make the characters rather strong - two weaknesses give you 4 strong sides. Little use for the averages, it seems... I think I personally liked the idea of tying it to 4-8-10-12-20 or whatever it was Doublethink suggested, to not get a bunch of more or less even characters apart from their one weakness... Differentiating characters by strengths rather than by weaknesses, as it were.
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:
I thought whatever rules the GM needed could be put in force ad hoc by pronunciation of GM authority. It may be that I'm wrong.

As for 20 points over 6 skills, it looks to me like that may make the characters rather strong - two weaknesses give you 4 strong sides. Little use for the averages, it seems... I think I personally liked the idea of tying it to 4-8-10-12-20 or whatever it was Doublethink suggested, to not get a bunch of more or less even characters apart from their one weakness... Differentiating characters by strengths rather than by weaknesses, as it were.

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quote:

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Character Name: Innocent Tyler

Brief Physical Description: 4ft tall, slight build, v pale skin ginger hair and green eyes. Loks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth.


Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 20 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

• Good Wits
• Excellent Finesse
• Excellent Charm
• Weak Soul
• Useless Muscles
• Rank Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

• Slot 1 (tied potential)
• Slot 2 (tied potential)
• Slot 3 (tied potential)
• Slot 4 (tied potential)
• Slot 5 (tied potential)
• Slot 6 (tied potential)

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.

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quote:

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Character Name: Innocent Tyler

Brief Physical Description: 4ft tall, slight build, v pale skin ginger hair and green eyes. Looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth.


Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 20 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

• Good Wits
• Excellent Finesse
• Good Charm
• Useless Soul
• Weak Muscles
• Good Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

• Lock-picking (Finesse)
• Bluff (Charm)
• Climbing (Finesse)
• Find Hidden Things (Vigilance)
• Light Weapon (Muscles)
• Seduction (Charm)

Starting perk ? If so - Luck - can re-roll a failed check once every seven days.

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.

Back-pack of basic camping gear
Ridiculously ornate dagger (gives +1 to combat rolls)
Magic item: Bag of holding - the tardis of man-bags

Quote: "A thief !?! Me !?! How very dare you, I am an an innocent dwarf !"

][/QB]

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariston:
Pretty much—it's called min-maxing, and is the standard way most people create characters. Not much use giving a wizard superhuman (or even average) strength, nor a sword-slinging fighter a genius intellect; indeed, it would seem odd to have someone who's essentially an academic with fireballs able to swing a sword or someone who spent all their time on the battlefield, not in libraries, able to win a trivia contest. Of course, there are exceptions—generals, for instance, or someone who can throw a magic missile into the mix before finishing things off with the halberd—but those exceptions come at a price ("jack of all trades, master of none"), and are generally more advanced characters.

Of course, it is possible to overdo it.

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quote:

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Character Name: Brandon Covey

Brief Physical Description: 12 years old, 4 ft 8 in. tall, stocky and muscular, dark eyes and dark hair in a "bowl cut", Dressed in rawhide. with very big boots.


Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 20 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

• OK Wits
• Weak Finesse
• Weak Charm
• Excellent Soul
• good Muscles
• Good Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

• Resist Charm (wits?)
• Animal Kinship (soul)
• Hearing (vigilance)
• Intuition(soul?)
• Kick/ Lower Body (muscles)
• Light Weapon (muscles)

Starting perk ? If so - Jiminy Cricket-- he can act as a totem to others-- if they ask him for advice, he can intuit good advice. (or maybe add a + 2 to their wits)

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.

Camping gear.

Steel toes boots

Totem amulet (bear) (if allowed as a magic item, +2 to wits, when consulted. Perhaps limit use per "day".)
Short sword.

Folk medicine kit (first aid type stuff.)

Quote:

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quote:

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Totem perk seems good but maybe either +2 weekly, or +1 if you want to be able to use it whenever.

Alternatively, maybe take traditional healing ? You seem quite shamanic soul based magic might be an option - and perk with an animal familiar - perhaps transform ?

---

What I was imagining was someone like "Radar O' Reilly" who could hear dialogue far off or the sound of an approaching caravan from five miles off. Stuff like that. If that will work with a straight vigilance roll, maybe I'll take "survival" to put my first-aid kit to use.[Edit--OO, I like your "traditional healing" idea better!]

Your totem use options seem fair-- naturally it would seem more useful to me to take the +1 option.

[ 30. April 2014, 19:38: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Also, explain the "transform" option-- I will happily ditch the totem if your idea seems more fun.
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Character Name: Gunriana De Vanės

Brief Physical Description:

A young lady, dressed either in an ornate and expensive dress not quite on the cutting edge of fashion, which suits her reasonably or, when travelling, dressed in rather more practical fur-lined leggings, short-ish shirt and stout jerkin in which she seems much more at ease. Her left hand is always gloved, and the observant will note that she uses that hand as little as possible, though she shows no sign of any disability. Her speech is careful and polished, though not quite polished enough to pass for true-born aristocracy. Her eyes are intelligent and intense – enough to make many people a little uncomfortable in prolonged conversation.


Potentials:

Good Wits
OK Finesse
OK Charm
Excellent, Soul
Weak Muscles
OK Vigilance


Skills:

Etiquette (Charm) (Behaviour in polite company, and familiarity with the customs of the upper classes)
Stealth (Finesse) (Sneaking, hiding, and minor sleight of hand)
Bluff (Wits) (Getting away with it through verbal dexterity)
Seamanship (Vigilance) (All manner of ship-handling and reading the waves and the weather)
Runelore (Soul) (The use of ancient writing for magic – working charms by cutting runes on wood, stone and flesh, or by finger-charms or tracing in the air)
Healing (Soul) (Mundane healing, boosted by rune-charms and a strong and compelling confidence that the patient will recover. Or sometimes, frustrated by an equally strong conviction that he won't. Fate is like that, and the rune-shaper is ultimately the handmaiden of the Fates, and not their mistress)


Equipment:

Clothes:
Expensive dresses (several), cosmetics, jewellery and accessories for every season.
Travelling clothes (in tasteful silver-grey fur and matching silk lining).
Dark blue murder robes for special occasions.
Elegant and practical footwear.
One long dark grey silk glove.

Gear:
Light pack containing provisions, a coil of rope, wood and stone chisels, a small mallet, a wickedly sharp pen knife, quill and ink, with a few sheets of vellum if she remembered to pack any, a few pots of foul-smelling ointment, several rolls of bandages. Money – she's not short of it, but the amount she thinks to take with her varies wildly. She's a hoarder, and her pack and pockets will gradually accumulate stuff until she periodically clears out and starts again.

Weapons:
Scramasax in a plain leather sheath, hung openly across her front when travelling, concealed in a sleeve (or left at home) when finely dressed.
A light throwing spear or two if she's expecting trouble.
(Gunriana has no particular skill or experience with weaponry, she's had a lesson or two, so knows how to hold a knife or throw a spear without disgracing herself, but that's about it)

Background:

One of Prince Testwe's retinue is a young commoner from an exceptionally rich merchant family. Gunriana De Vanės has been pushed into high society by her father's ambition to improve the standing of their House – his daughter is betrothed to a younger son of powerful (though heavily indebted) Duke, but as her future husband is currently eight years old, she has some time on her hands before settling down to a life of elevated tedium. Her father has pulled more than a few strings to place her in the Prince's entourage, and given her instructions to (1) preserve her virginity; (2) learn how to behave as a lady; (3) keep an eye open for opportunities for profit; and (4) enjoy seeing something of the world. Gunriana does not exactly demur from any of those instructions, though it should be said that she precisely reverses their order of priority.

In truth Gunriana was born about two generations too late. Had she lived in the days when the Vanės clan spent six months a year raiding up and down the coast, and was more concerned with looting and burning trade-ships than investing in them at high rates of interest, a sharp-minded girl born with the hagall rune marked vividly on her left palm would have had but one destiny. She would been put into service of some embittered old crone, and settled with aplomb into the role of barbarian witch, to become the servant and symbol of the dark ladies to be feared and appeased by men of a race that fears nothing and bows to no one. Gunriana's life in these more civilised days is more ambiguous - to be marked so unmistakeably as a daughter of the Fates, and yet also to be obliged to take the part of a refined consort for a civilised aristocrat is perhaps asking too much of anyone. It remains to be seen which path she will ultimately choose.

Perk:

Rune magic. It's entirely up the GM to what degree Gunriana's magic works, or if it works at all (I don't think I even want to know). And that is an entirely separate question from whether the world is one where magic works in general. She is utterly convinced that it does work, and her faith in her power is contagious. Gunriana believes that runes cut or cast with her fate-marked left hand are especially strong, but destined to bring at least some measure of grief as the price of their power. She conceals her mark with a glove, and tries to avoid touching anyone with that hand, not only to avoid superstitious hostility, but also because she is more than a little afraid of fully using the darker side of her talents.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Character Name: Stone Miller

Brief Physical Description: 6 ft tall, lean, somewhat bent stature, brown curly wild-growing hair, brown curly wild-growing beard, blue eyes, looks 30-50 years old, grimy suit, surrounded by a dust cloud.

Potentials:

▪ Good Wits
▪ Good Finesse
▪ Excellent Charm
▪ Useless Soul
▪ OK Muscles
▪ OK Vigilance


Skills

▪ Survival/Cooking (Wits)
▪ Repair (Finesse)
▪ Light Weapon (Muscle) (Preferably toothpick or whiskey bottle, but anything goes.)
▪ Toothpick Takeover (Wits) - Can take control of many flying vehicles and creatures when armed with a toothpick. (Or is this more of a perk?)
▪ Bluff (Charm)
▪ Scrounger (Charm)

Initial Perk:
▪ Dutch Courage - Can consume liquor if in possession of it to gain -1 Charm, -1 Vigilance, +2 Muscles for 2 turns.

Gear:

▪ Plain brown suit.
▪ Toothpick, Swiss Army version.
▪ The Blues.
▪ Broken whiskey bottle (+1 to combat rolls)

Background:
A dust cloud moves closer, and suddenly stops in front of its interlocutor. A friendly, strangely reliable voice speaks and a hand is reached out in greeting, and the words "Spare some change?" are heard - that's all you'll remember of Rollin' Stone Miller, unless he wants you to. Behind that dust cloud rests a heavily bearded face with a constant smile, smooth-talking blue eyes and an eerie sense that although you might call him a tramp, it goes a little deeper than that.


(This is the 20 point version. Feel free to come with critique, this is the first time I've done this and I'm not too sure of how this would play out - not even sure I've got the rules right, but let me know if I get it completely wrong!)
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Ok. This is a first stab at doing this - please point out where things need work, as I'm not sure how this character would fare in a game.


Character Name: Crazy Clawdine

Brief Physical Description:

A troll of a woman of indeterminable size, thanks to the many layers of tattered shawls that hang from her large frame. Her wild black matted hair has a life of its own, owing to the insect life that lives in it. She may look crazy, but her beady black eyes rarely miss much of what is going on around her, and she has a number of hidden and surprisingly useful talents.

Potentials:

Weak Wits
Useless Finesse
Weak Charm
Good Soul
OK Muscles
Excellent Vigilance

Skills/Attributes:

(Vigilance) Able to accurately predict the presence of water nearby; in the ground/ in the atmosphere/ or in the barkeep’s supposedly untampered with whiskey kegs.

(Soul) Able to heal/grow/restore anything that has withered. She can “call” water.

(Muscles) She moves –flows- surprisingly swiftly. But the sight of blood makes her throw back her head and howl, and causes immediate immobility.

(Charm) A compliment turns her into a tall, leggy, well endowed and fast young woman, with blonde hair and a need to run naked through water.
Sadly she hears few compliments. A curse quickly turns her back into Crazy Clawdine. Several insults hurled together at her may cause extreme volatility in her bodily functions, or in the atmosphere around her, depending on the roll of the die, and if she chooses to hear what is being said.

Equipment:
Divining Rod (this may also be used as a weapon)
Her distinctive blue teepee

Perks: Selective hearing. While Crazy Claudine’s eyes seldom miss anything, she can choose not to hear what is being said to her.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Hot damn, a crone!

Maybe you can mentor Brandon.
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Brandon is welcome to park his bedroll outside Clawdine's teepee.

But where are we? It strikes me that we either have a few characters from the Wild West travelling through a Transylvanian countryside, or a bunch of court followers rattling through some American backwoods.

Is this where the GM needs to set a few parameters re landscape?
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I was noticing the same thing.

My kid is pretty adaptable -- his backstory (which I forgot to write) is that he was a squire for a really narcissistic titled person (hence his allergy to charm) and ran away to make his own fortune. The titled person could easily be an old west Eastern Railroad baron/ old- money type, which would make him a farm hand or something, or can be a '30's speakeasy owner, making him a bus boy. I'm sure we can sort that out with the GM.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Well, I think all these characters are plausable - but some specific tweaks. Clawdine is fab, but the skills listed are really perks I think.

We have one thief - my test character - one aristocrat, one drunk, and three magic users. So I think a magic setting is necessary. (Discard thief if you would like me to GM.)

For a party to work well it is usually a good idea to have a mix of functions. So if we were to tweak with this in mind ...

Testwe is basically Face, the diplomat of the team. He needs to tweak to the 18 point buy we have discussed. Pick an appropriate magic item, pick a perk - I love "always their fault". This needs to be operationalised somehow, perhaps +1 to bluff rolls when trying to get someone to reverse a previous decisions (other suggestions welcome.). You can roleplay his distrust of smarm, will make an interesting dynamic with the prince.

Then you need a skills list - I would suggest such things as reputation - you can do the "do you know who I am" thing to get access to places, stuff people etc, imperious intimidation, horsemanship etc

Brandon is an animal mage / tracker type. He needs tweaking to an 18 point buy. A magic item - could be your totem. Perk - you could have extra special hearing but I think it would have limited narrative value. A transform perk would allow you to become your totem animal x1 per week, by switching your best stat with your muscles stat - and being a bear ! He would benefit from maybe having stealth as a skill but it is not a must. We don't really have a resist mechanic, would be complex to add in, so I would drop resist charm.

This would help the team build as you are light on fighters.

Gunriana is a mage, rune magic works. So is not needed as a perk. Skills are fine. So you need a magic item, could the dagger maybe magical gives +1 and if thrown returns to hand ? A fun perk might be to have the weather mirror Guriana's mood, giving an opponent -1 to a roll x1 a week (difficult to see in a thunder storm.). Also a role as a party healer.

Stone Miller needs to be tweaked to an 18 point build. I don't think you can have toothpick take over as a skill - too powerful, you can steal a dragon with that ! Dutch courage is fine as a perk but x1 per week. Eseentially he is the teams strongest fighter.

I suggest scavenge as a skill, can find small useful stuff and make useful mundane items. E.g dives into the town dump and comes back with bits he makes into a new outfit or a bed roll, or a torch etc.

Thematically it would help if Stone worse grimy trousers and a jerkin - or grimy robes. I am thinking that it is pretty much possible to fit all these characters into a sort of late medieval / renaissance tech level.

I think Clawdine is a point short of her 18 point buy. If so, maybe up soul.

Your skills are mostly perk like, or things that you would roleplay. So lets think. You can have the perk Call water, allowing you to sense water at all times and x1 per week can cause something withered to grow.

Instead of a magic item, you can have a transform, where your finesse and vigilance stats swap and you turn into a young naked woman. You can trigger it x1 per week in a situation where you have received a compliment - but if you are talking to yourself you can choose to compliment yourself, provided you roleplay a convincing reason.

Skill wise, I suggest stealth (finesse) in your form as a young woman you maybe a good thief or spy. Light weapon (muscles), find hidden (vigilance), spot deception (vigilance), survival (soul), and some other soul based skill.

Would you consider a blue gypsy tent rather than a tepee ?

[ 01. May 2014, 19:21: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Arrrghh, the bit about roleplaying allergy to smarm was meant for Brandon.

Also, you don't all have to be human - Clawdine can be a troll if you like.
 

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Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :
 
First, great idea, I'd love to try this, whatever it may end up being.

Second, here's an idea for dealing with online turn-lag: why don't you allow, or indeed require, *communal* characters?

Of course, there would have to be enough interest, but it also may help in keeping the number of actors in the story small and consequently the headaches of the GM at below migraine level.

Say you require a minimum of three character controllers, and allow a maximum of seven. And say you get an average of five. Then we could have 25 Shipmates engaged in playing, but there would be only 5 characters acting in the game world.

Turn taking would consequently be sped up by a factor of five (more or less). Basically, whenever one of the controllers logs in, he can post the next move of the shared character. The other controllers of the same character then will have to deal with the outcome of that move, of course. The game character proceeds through the story as normal, it's just that more than one person can control it.

I think such communal characters could be a lot of fun. I'd expect that typically the group that is controlling one character stays more or less stable. But it would fairly easy to cope with someone going for a holiday, for example. And indeed, this could be a cool way of phasing in new players. Just put them in a group with experienced players, so that they can ease in at their own pace without slowing down the game.

Of course, occasionally one would get "cross-commands" as two controllers both try to post the next move. But I'd expect that to be relatively rare. And as far as the GM is concerned, the actual posting order determined the move: whoever was first in the thread gets the move.
 

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Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :
 
Ok modified

Character Name: Prince Testwe Rakta

Weak(2) Rank Wits
Good(4) Rank Finesse
Excellent(5)Rank Charm
Ok(3) Rank Soul
Useless(1) Rank Muscles
Ok(3) Rank Vigilance

Night-watchperson (vigilence) Testwe is a better watchperson than expected at night as he can't sleep in 'rough' conditions
Reputation (finesse) skilled at conversations with those deferential to royalty (or otherwise affected by 'pulling rank')
Conversationalist (charm) skilled at broaching conversations with the most unlikely people in the most unlikely situations who may say more than they mean
Regal-Hunting (soul) riding horses is obvious royal training and is slightly better with royal birds than expected (can't do the boring stuff, though)
Fencing (finesse) more skilled at fighting when dealing with people who fght according to 'rules'

Perk
Always their fault.
Not sure how to operate yet,

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.
(if can start with stuff)
Princely fine rapier
Flute
Spinning thing

Other notes:

At the beginning he hasn't learnt the dangers of the real world and has unrealistic expectations.
Thus giving a chance to confirm that things work ok (and he loses when he should), but he will learn quickly (before it gets boring)

The parody backstory is to be taken as more metaphorical, to match a more serious fantasy.
Rather than the original attempt to exploit cliches to justify silly (exploratory) behaviour, while trying to satarise the cliches.
Will try to keep the interesting traits, but add aspects of the 'Face' prism.
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
I vote for Doublethink as GM for the test run.

Happy for Clawdine to have a blue Gypsy tent or caravan. That makes her much more adaptable. If she is a troll, or can turn into one, does that affect her strength/defence capabilities? It would mean she is more like 3 people in one; so I'm assuming this would provide a lot of variables in a game.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Arabella Adventurer floats by. She has a few carefully honed skills: the ability to go in and out of places, navigate by cardinal directions, take and drop objects. She can dodge dwarf-thrown axes with a middling success rate. She knows how to map a maze of twisty little passages all different, and also a maze of twisty little passages all alike. She knows the secret signs of xyzzy and plugh. She knows that past the cave entrance the stream empties through a four-inch grate, and also that try as you might, you can't fit through a four-inch grate. She thinks the mirror above Mirror Canyon should have some actual use besides futilely showing you your reflection in a mystifying but purposeless manner.

She doesn't know how to reliably get out of Wit's End, and has far too much experience confirming that the more you struggle there, the more you'll stay stuck.

She has never met a Dragon in her Cave, and furthermore a Cave is not a Dungeon. So she thinks she'll watch the other characters before trying it for herself.
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Hang on, I've been cooking up a character, he'll be ready before too long—we need a good and burly meat shield, and there's one on its way, once things calm down for, you know, five seconds.
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
I really like IngoB's idea of communal characters in that being in a separate time zone from most other players (if not all) I could create an action with my own character as the central proponent but move all the others about.

There would have to be a few rules about that, I guess.

But I do like the randomness this would inject into the game. I like the thought of logging out with Clawdine happily chugging ale at the inn, and then logging in to find her trundling along in a prison cart on the way to Castle Harshness. Could make it most interesting.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
The communal idea is really intriguing, and would indeed help the pace along.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
As for communal characters, it's an interesting idea and should we get say, more than ten people signing up it might be worth taking a look into. As for me and as for the test round, I think I'd prefer starting out with controlling my own character though.

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Stone Miller needs to be tweaked to an 18 point build. I don't think you can have toothpick take over as a skill - too powerful, you can steal a dragon with that ! Dutch courage is fine as a perk but x1 per week. Eseentially he is the teams strongest fighter.

I suggest scavenge as a skill, can find small useful stuff and make useful mundane items. E.g dives into the town dump and comes back with bits he makes into a new outfit or a bed roll, or a torch etc.

Thematically it would help if Stone worse grimy trousers and a jerkin - or grimy robes. I am thinking that it is pretty much possible to fit all these characters into a sort of late medieval / renaissance tech level.

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Hmm... Dang it, I wanted the group to have a hobo as its face... But that's ok, I wasn't too sure what to make of him. I still sort of am not, given that Ariston just volunteered to provide us with a fighter/meat shield. I'll remove toothpick takeover and replace it with something else. (Just remember, children, to always fear swarthy men with toothpicks on airplanes!) I might also add a "scrounging cannot be denied" perk if Stone is not to be a fighter. But I'll rethink and rewrite as I read and think about what Ariston's character will do for the group dynamics.

Also, Stone is not a drunk, nor a tramp. He's a ...
(one long stroke on a blues lute is heard, followed by four quick ones)
Highway Child.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Jack Kerouac, in other words?

I agree that I prefer to do the test run with our own characters, and see how the numbers pan out to see if communal characters are workable.
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
The GM may need to do a bit of hand-holding for those of us who have never played a D&D style game before.

Eg: I would appreciate it if the GM took the character idea I had and did the appropriate points & skills allocation as I am somewhat confused about what constitutes vigilance (Eliab can have seafaring and see the weather accurately but I can't see water in the atmosphere because that is a perk - these are nuances of the game set up I obviously don't get yet).

I suspect Aunterieth Road is the same.

And can I just say that this will go down in the annals of SF history as the day BL was given permission by a host to be a troll!
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
Guardian Jetse Vos, formerly of the Mystery, Fellowship, and Company of Merchant Adventurers in the Canton of Ijzerhaven, Duchy of Joux and Mørkborg Palatinate.

While not especially tall, Jetse is still an absolute bear of a man, seemingly occupying the whole of any room he walks into. His black hair and mustache are turning grey at the corners, and his face, hands, and arms show the signs of long exposure to the elements, as well as a few fights that could have perhaps gone better for him. Whatever caused that necrotic wound, now a nasty scar, on his left arm couldn't have been even remotely friendly. Yet somehow, through his many campaigns on land, sea, and underground, Jetse survived.

His arms and equipment are as unusual for these parts; perhaps, in the fjords and cold of the far south, they might be more common, but here, their strange design stands out, especially the sun emblem on his breastplate and (you think—it's hard to tell, as battered as it is) the chief of his shield. Why would a soldier from Joux wear that device? Isn't the Duchy supposed to be underground?

Stats:
Useless charm
Useless wits
Okay soul (I'm assuming "soul" is something like wisdom, horse sense, instinct, or internal fortitude, rather than something like a mystical connection to the Beyond—Jetse is not a magic user of any kind)
Good finesse
Good vigilance
Excellent muscles
Jetse is generally gruff and curt, sometimes bordering on rude. Being around him is slightly frightening—it's clear that he's watching you, judging your actions, determining how likely you are to attack him, and, if you are fool enough to try, how he's going to make you very much regret it. Something about being around a gruff, heavily armed, hypervigilant, and not especially friendly (ex?) mercenary who seems to be quite capable of landing a blow exactly where it would hurt the most tends to make people shy away

Notable Equipment
Halberd (pole weapon, slashing/piercing, hook can be used to disarm or trip opponents, effective against charging and mounted enemies). The blades and haft of this fearsome looking poleaxe are jet black.
Short sword (bladed weapon, slashing). Jetse's sidearm, rather than being straight, has a series of waves in the blade, and, like his halberd, is also black.
Longbow and 20 arrows
Shield (wooden). While the arms originally painted on the shield have been mostly obliterated in combat, you can barely make out a sun symbol in the chief.
Breastplate. Though battered and repaired, a coat of arms depicting a three-peaked mountain over a field (a plain, or perhaps a lake?), with the same sunburst design in the chief as his shield, is still visible, etched above the front of his right shoulder.
Helmet. Both the breastplate and helmet are made out of a strange metal that seem more like pale and faded shadows than glittering steel. Or maybe they just need a good polish before the next parade. A really good polish.
Heavy oilskin cloak. Wherever Jetse's been, it doesn't seem like it was especially warm or dry.

Skills
Transport (wit): working as an escort on merchant convoys has given Jetse some ability to pilot, if not navigate or command, boats and small ships; drive carts and pack animals, and, in a pinch, kinda ride them; and pack, load, and unload goods. Now, if he could only remember what he heard belowdecks…
(While Jetse can do these things, and do them well, thanks to his low wit score, he can't do anything that's too complicated. Piloting a riverboat or steering a small ship while someone else navigates and gives orders, sure; warships and ocean-crossing cargo vessels, no. Riding a well-trained horse to war or even, if it's a good one, in battle is fine; handling a spooked horse while fighting is out of the question)

Cover (finesse): having fought in so many environments and situations has given Jetse a knack for using whatever advantage he can gain from wherever he might find himself. When defending—and when he has the initiative—in those cases where Jetse might normally gain a bonus from terrain, cover, or concealment, he gains a small (+2 in D&Dspeak) additional bonus.

Climb (finesse): whether it be a ship's rigging, a tree, or a rockfall in a cave, Guardian Vos has had to get up it. In armor. With his weapons. While it was moving. And under attack. At this point, he's kind of good at it.

Fortitude (muscle): when you've been beaten up as often as he has, you kinda learn to ignore it. While damage still happens, the tangential, non-physical effects of that damage (e.g., being distracted by pain) are lessened.

Alertness (vigilance): our good Guardian is always looking around, always assessing threats, and always has a plan to kill everyone he meets. All else being equal, he'll draw first.

The Human Wall (muscle): sometimes, it's good to be an imposing, hulking Presence. In exchange for staying put and planting himself in one spot (i.e., as a full-round action), Jetse gains a small, but not insignificant, defensive bonus (+3 or 4) and enemies can't pass within five feet of him without getting the absolute living snot beat out of them. Trying to charge past him while he's planted like this (and, especially, able to take advantage of the environment) is a good way to find yourself on the spiky end of the halberd.

[ 02. May 2014, 05:48: Message edited by: Ariston ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Got enough equipment there, Brian?
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I'll will do a tweak of Clawdine tonight.

I realise the perks vs skills thing is causing a little confusion. We do not have a master list of skills or perks, so people have to suggest their own and then negotiate with the GM. In that negotiation the.GM is having to think about the overall balance of the character, the party and likely effects on gameplay. E.g toothpick takeover looks fine till you think through combat in a magical universe - then it starts to look world bendingly powerful.

Perks are quite a unique thing to that individual. Skills are intended to be things that given the right opportunities, anyone could have learned. Skills do not add bonuses to your rolls (which they would in D&D).

What a skill does, is mean you can attempt a skilled task - like healing - without it being ridiculously hard.

Perks add a bonus to a roll, or opportunity for a special effect.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
Ok modified

Character Name: Prince Testwe Rakta

Weak(2) Rank Wits
Good(4) Rank Finesse
Excellent(5)Rank Charm
Ok(3) Rank Soul
Useless(1) Rank Muscles
Ok(3) Rank Vigilance

Night-watchperson (vigilence) Testwe is a better watchperson than expected at night as he can't sleep in 'rough' conditions
Reputation (finesse) skilled at conversations with those deferential to royalty (or otherwise affected by 'pulling rank')
Conversationalist (charm) skilled at broaching conversations with the most unlikely people in the most unlikely situations who may say more than they mean
Regal-Hunting (soul) riding horses is obvious royal training and is slightly better with royal birds than expected (can't do the boring stuff, though)
Fencing (finesse) more skilled at fighting when dealing with people who fght according to 'rules'

Perk
Always their fault.
Not sure how to operate yet,

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.
(if can start with stuff)
Princely fine rapier
Flute
Spinning thing

Other notes:

At the beginning he hasn't learnt the dangers of the real world and has unrealistic expectations.
Thus giving a chance to confirm that things work ok (and he loses when he should), but he will learn quickly (before it gets boring)

The parody backstory is to be taken as more metaphorical, to match a more serious fantasy.
Rather than the original attempt to exploit cliches to justify silly (exploratory) behaviour, while trying to satarise the cliches.
Will try to keep the interesting traits, but add aspects of the 'Face' prism.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariston:
Guardian Jetse Vos, formerly of the Mystery, Fellowship, and Company of Merchant Adventurers in the Canton of Ijzerhaven, Duchy of Joux and Mørkborg Palatinate.

While not especially tall, Jetse is still an absolute bear of a man, seemingly occupying the whole of any room he walks into. His black hair and mustache are turning grey at the corners, and his face, hands, and arms show the signs of long exposure to the elements, as well as a few fights that could have perhaps gone better for him. Whatever caused that necrotic wound, now a nasty scar, on his left arm couldn't have been even remotely friendly. Yet somehow, through his many campaigns on land, sea, and underground, Jetse survived.

His arms and equipment are as unusual for these parts; perhaps, in the fjords and cold of the far south, they might be more common, but here, their strange design stands out, especially the sun emblem on his breastplate and (you think—it's hard to tell, as battered as it is) the chief of his shield. Why would a soldier from Joux wear that device? Isn't the Duchy supposed to be underground?

Stats:
Useless charm
Useless wits
Okay soul (I'm assuming "soul" is something like wisdom, horse sense, instinct, or internal fortitude, rather than something like a mystical connection to the Beyond—Jetse is not a magic user of any kind)
Good finesse
Good vigilance
Excellent muscles
Jetse is generally gruff and curt, sometimes bordering on rude. Being around him is slightly frightening—it's clear that he's watching you, judging your actions, determining how likely you are to attack him, and, if you are fool enough to try, how he's going to make you very much regret it. Something about being around a gruff, heavily armed, hypervigilant, and not especially friendly (ex?) mercenary who seems to be quite capable of landing a blow exactly where it would hurt the most tends to make people shy away

Notable Equipment
Halberd (pole weapon, slashing/piercing, hook can be used to disarm or trip opponents, effective against charging and mounted enemies). The blades and haft of this fearsome looking poleaxe are jet black.
Short sword (bladed weapon, slashing). Jetse's sidearm, rather than being straight, has a series of waves in the blade, and, like his halberd, is also black.
Longbow and 20 arrows
Shield (wooden). While the arms originally painted on the shield have been mostly obliterated in combat, you can barely make out a sun symbol in the chief.
Breastplate. Though battered and repaired, a coat of arms depicting a three-peaked mountain over a field (a plain, or perhaps a lake?), with the same sunburst design in the chief as his shield, is still visible, etched above the front of his right shoulder.
Helmet. Both the breastplate and helmet are made out of a strange metal that seem more like pale and faded shadows than glittering steel. Or maybe they just need a good polish before the next parade. A really good polish.
Heavy oilskin cloak. Wherever Jetse's been, it doesn't seem like it was especially warm or dry.

Skills
Transport (wit): working as an escort on merchant convoys has given Jetse some ability to pilot, if not navigate or command, boats and small ships; drive carts and pack animals, and, in a pinch, kinda ride them; and pack, load, and unload goods. Now, if he could only remember what he heard belowdecks…
(While Jetse can do these things, and do them well, thanks to his low wit score, he can't do anything that's too complicated. Piloting a riverboat or steering a small ship while someone else navigates and gives orders, sure; warships and ocean-crossing cargo vessels, no. Riding a well-trained horse to war or even, if it's a good one, in battle is fine; handling a spooked horse while fighting is out of the question)

Cover (finesse): having fought in so many environments and situations has given Jetse a knack for using whatever advantage he can gain from wherever he might find himself. When defending—and when he has the initiative—in those cases where Jetse might normally gain a bonus from terrain, cover, or concealment, he gains a small (+2 in D&Dspeak) additional bonus.

Climb (finesse): whether it be a ship's rigging, a tree, or a rockfall in a cave, Guardian Vos has had to get up it. In armor. With his weapons. While it was moving. And under attack. At this point, he's kind of good at it.

Fortitude (muscle): when you've been beaten up as often as he has, you kinda learn to ignore it. While damage still happens, the tangential, non-physical effects of that damage (e.g., being distracted by pain) are lessened.

Alertness (vigilance): our good Guardian is always looking around, always assessing threats, and always has a plan to kill everyone he meets. All else being equal, he'll draw first.

The Human Wall (muscle): sometimes, it's good to be an imposing, hulking Presence. In exchange for staying put and planting himself in one spot (i.e., as a full-round action), Jetse gains a small, but not insignificant, defensive bonus (+3 or 4) and enemies can't pass within five feet of him without getting the absolute living snot beat out of them. Trying to charge past him while he's planted like this (and, especially, able to take advantage of the environment) is a good way to find yourself on the spiky end of the halberd.

---

OMG !

Firstly, pls see comment above about skills & perks - secondly, do you think it might help to have some skills related to weapons ?

We can work out human wall as a perk.

Ditch cover as a skill, combat mechanic is too simple to implement that. Fortitude might something we work into the human wall perk - but it is not a skill. You don't need alertness, that is covered by basic vigilance. Transport is a bit too broad, we have a seafarer already, perhaps animal transport.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Tried to make a brief compilation of the characters so far. It's based on stats seen, but the skills appear to be in question still for plenty of us. I have not yet included Stone Miller, because I'm still working him out.
Gunriana de Vanes (ELIAB)

Good Wits 4
OK Finesse 3
OK Charm 3
Excellent Soul 5
Weak Muscles 2
OK Vigilance 3

Etiquette (Charm)
Stealth (Finesse)
Bluff (Wits)
Seamanship (Vigilance)
Runelore (Soul)
Healing (Soul)

Perk: Rune Magic


Prince Testwe Rakta (JAY-EMM)

Weak Wits 2
Good Finesse 4
Excellent Charm 5
OK Soul 3
Useless Muscles 1
OK Vigilance 1

Night-watchperson (vigilence)
Reputation (finesse)
Conversationalist (charm)
Regal-Hunting (soul)
Fencing (finesse)

Perk:
Always their fault.


Guardian Jetse Vos (ARISTON)

Useless Wits 1
Good Finesse 4
Useless Charm 1
OK Soul 3
Excellent Muscles 5
Good Vigilance 4

Transport (wit)
Cover (finesse)
Climb (finesse)
Fortitude (muscle)
Alertness (vigilance)
The Human Wall (muscle)

Perk: Human Wall


Brandon Covey (KELLY ALVES)

OK Wits 3
Weak Finesse 2
Weak Charm 2
Excellent Soul 5
Good Muscles 4
Good Vigilance 4

Perk: Transform


Crazy Clawdine (BANNER LADY)

Weak Wits 2
Useless Finesse 1
Weak Charm 2
Good Soul 4
OK Muscles 3
Excellent Vigilance 5
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Here's a list how we're ranking up at strengths. I've included 4+ points, or in some cases whoever was second if only one person has 4+ in that.

Wits:
Gunriana/Eliab (4)
Brandon/Kelly Alves(3)

Finesse:
Guardian Jetse/Ariston (4)
Prince Testwe/Jay-Emm (4)

Charm:
Prince Testwe/Jay-Emm (5)
Gunriana/Eliab (3)

Soul:
Gunriana/Eliab (5)
Brandon/Kelly Alves(5)
Clawdine/Banner Lady (4)

Muscles:
Guardian Jetse/Ariston (5)
Brandon/Kelly Alves(4)

Vigilance:
Clawdine/Banner Lady (5)
Brandon/Kelly Alves (4)
Guardian Jetse/Ariston (4)

A bit of analysis:
To begin with, these things are subject to change as Gunriana (Eliab), Clawdine (Banner Lady) and Stone (JFH) are updated.

Furthermore, good at vigilance and soul, a bit low on charm and finesse and seriously understaffed at the intellectual compartment. Nice, for a change. If people want to join, this would be a nice role to take up. I've seen a couple of posters above in this thread who I'm sure would do a great job "acting". (Gwai, IngoB, Autenrieth Road, without mentioning or passing over other posters, I'd like to take this chance to subtly throw glances your ways*.)

As for Stone, I'm thinking of boosting him up as a secondary in Charm, and a specialist at Finesse. I'm thinking he's a tinkering, possibly even crafting rambler with "a fondness for living on the cheap", as well as of course for sweet, sweet wine (replace with whatever alcohol you come across when the urge gets stronger).

*Plural S added to sooth sensitive editor eyes.
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
Thanks for the poke, JFH. I will see if I can get a character together today.
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
I admit I've got a bit lost as to what kind of setting we're looking at. Generic fantasy-ish?
I'll see if I can work out a character over the next thirty-six hours.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
I think Doublethink suggested some sort of mediaeval/renaissance tech level. Magic Kingdom seemed to be the most popular choice of magical level in the poll thread. It seems to me to be very open, but yeah, so far most have gone for the fantasy-direction so it seems that's where we're headed. Not least because there might be dragons to take over which seemed to powerful a power to place in the hands of the town drunk.
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
This looks fascinating. I've been a bit busy over the last couple of weeks, so deliberately didn't post on this thread (though I did vote in the poll). I can draft out a character over the weekend too. I've never done DnD or anything really similar (Bloodbowl is the closest I came). Looking over JFH's list of strengths (which was very helpful), it seems we're short on wits and charm. So, I'm going to try a cup bearer, court functionary who has some notional ceremonial role to do with banquets but really schemes, advizes and pulls strings behind the scenes. (This was a real thing in Ancient Assyria, which I know isn't our setting).

I won't be able to get to it before this evening (EDT) at the earliest, so if anyone has any initial input, guidance or howls of disapproval, they'd be appreciated!
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
I don't think we're getting started until the weekend is over, not that I know of at least. I don't know if anyone knows or steers which stage we're in. I suppose we could try to start the test run sometime next week if we want to and if everyone's ok with it. Also, I get the idea that it wouldn't be that difficult to add in new folks or have old ones take a vacation or so, as soon as we're not in the middle of a battle. Just have a new person apply to the GM who'll have us come across the new member or a reason for a character to take a leave. (Loud cheers are heard from the hosts at the thought of yet another everlasting role-playing thread...)

I'll try to post a re-worked Stone Miller tonight. Also, my idea of this is that part of the fun can lie in overcoming difficulties through various solutions, and should we be a little on the short side on one of the character traits, that could well be part of the difficulties we could enjoy getting around. So we have only one fighter but armies coming from two directions? Send out the prince with a parley flag to one of them and have them apologise - while the mages load up their fireball spells of course!

My point in short: don't feel forced to take one role for the sake of the team, but do what you want. How we work together in and around the consequences of that is the best part of the game.
 

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Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :
 
I'm still confused about the whole character sheet thing. The guidance on what means what is sort of dispersed across multiple posts and individual comments. Here's what I would like to see:

1. A concise description of the various "potentials", and what they are typically good for. Stuff like "finesse" is close to meaningless to me (hold your puns ). If I want to open a lock, does that require "finesse"? If I want to woo a lady, does that require "finesse"? If I want to pull off a difficult spell, does that require "finesse"? If I want to fence rather than bludgeon, does that require "finesse"? Only "Charm" is somewhat clear to me, and that mostly because it is a "traditional" trait and I assume that it would have impact as usual. Even "Muscle" could mean different things (does a ballet dancer have 5 Muscle?). Without a better idea what I need "potentials" for, I cannot tailor the point distribution to the character that I'm building. (Are we by the way distributing 20 or 18 points?)
2. To invent our own skills seems like too much of an invitation to go nuts. This needs a lot balancing, which tends to be hard (and to some extent depends on the environment in which the adventure will happen). I suggest instead that most skills should be assigned implicitly by "class". If I make my character a wizard then this should mean to the GM that I'm better at wizard stuff than say a thief, even if I didn't specify the specific skill needed. For example, we find an ancient tome. Who gets to read it? If I am the wizard of the group, then it should be logical that I should try to decipher it. Whereas our druid should not be the go to guy, because he doesn't do books much. But the druid may well have the same "Wit" and "Soul" stats, and we both may not have thought of including "reading ancient books" as skill. So we would be equal in terms of the game mechanics. But that makes no sense at all. Given a class system, both the group and the GM can quickly figure out who is the logical choices for a certain task. This would also much simplify the initial character development, instead of inventing all sorts unbalanced skills we simply pick a class.
3. Special gear, perks and special skills: I suggest everybody gets one, and only one, at least to start with. Decide whether you want a super-weapon, an extraordinary buff or an incredible skill. Pick one. Then negotiate that with the GM (Doublethink) for balance. Nothing stops characters from picking up extra gear, perks or skills in the game. You raid the ruins of Ashrgoth and find the Hammer of Doom. You save a wood spirit and get the perk "bark skin" as defensive buff. You stay up late in the tavern and learn how to cheat almost everybody out of some money with a card game. Fine, that's all game-internal, it develops out of the story and since it will be provided by the GM it will be in tune with the environment and balanced. But I don't think we should all start out as fantastic heroes. We should start out humble, and grow more powerful as we go along...
4. There's no guidance on available races and their interactions with the various powers available in the game. Is it purely ornamental whether I declare myself to be human, orc, elf, gnome, goblin, dwarf, troll, what have you? Or is a troll warrior consistently going to beat a gnome warrior? Does an elvish ranger have keener sight than a dwarven one? Does an orc have the innate ability to eat tainted food without getting poisoned? Etc.

In short, I think we should not overload the character creation with creativity as far as powers and stuff goes (creative descriptions is a different thing entirely). I think it would be better to have that clear and simple, and let the complexity grow within the game. And we could off-load some of individual mods on choosing a class / race.

[ 02. May 2014, 15:12: Message edited by: IngoB ]
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
Still thinking about two more skills, but maybe I'll have ideas once I see what doublethink thinks of this anyway.

Character Name: Jerthro

Brief Physical Description:
Very fit looking young man. Probably 18 or so though he claims to be 25 usually.

General Description:
Sometimes bumbling, usually over-confident, but always cheerful, Jerthro is seriously excited to be on this adventure, and he knows it's going to be great!

Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 20 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

Weak Wits
Weak Finesse
Good Charm
OK Soul
Good Muscles
OK Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

Skill (potential)

Power Through (muscles ) One of Jerthro's main strengths and at the same time weaknesses is his confidence that he can he can power through whatever he needs to power through. Climb a cliff even though he's never done anything like? He'll power through it better than a sensible soul would expect. Fix that sensitive machine? It'll probably need to be fixed after he's done powering through it! (In other words, he's very good at using his muscles to "fix" a problem.

Scouting (vigilance) "How about I go check what is coming up? It'll be fun! I'll be back before breakfast."

Calm (charm) Jerthro has a way of annoying some people, but usually he can calm people down too. He's friendly, and self-deprecating in a way that tends to remind people he's young, foolish, and exceedingly forgivable.

Infatiguable (Soul) Jerthro may not be experienced, but he tends to keep going very well. By the time Jerthro gives up exhausted, most sane people sat down to rest hours ago.

Slot 6 (tied potential)

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.

Leather armour kit -- Looking at the size and the way it fits Jerthro, one suspects he inherited it from his dad.

(Would it be possible for this to be magical in some small way, but have Jerthro not know that?)

Sword and dagger -- Plain but decent. Again look like they've had more wear than Jerthro has.

Backpack and camping supplies --New, unused even, and rather excessive. For instance, no one needs three different ways to start a fire, surely?

Perk: Energetic Confidence Jerthro tends to be excited about a new adventure, whether it be a fight or a task, and when he is excited he tends to infect everyone with his cheerful confidence. *

*Doublethink, how should this work mechanics-wise?
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Good points with a lot of thought and plenty of logic behind them, IngoB. I think I've commented enough on the concepts without Doublethink confirming anything, so I'll stick to a single line as a comment:
You say "go nuts" as if it's a bad thing.

Others, feel free to argue/think whatever you like. I would stop you, but Stone just spotted this really interesting bottle which looks like it might just have some firewater left in it, a theory which we shall now investigate by putting it to the test.

I'll also throw in a quick explanation of what aspects I think the potentials refer to, more or less, using other common tag words:
- Wits/Intelligence/Strategic insight/Learning capacity
- Finesse/Dexterity/Agility/Precision handwork
- Charm/Charisma/Social capacity/Speak
- Soul/Magical ability/Spiritual strength (not sure here)
- Muscles/Physique/Constitution/Strength/Melee Combat
- Vigilance/Perception ability/Sensing capacity
Personally, I think of Fallout's S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system but put Strength and Endurance as one, Muscles.

I also wouldn't expect anything but creativity from the SoF folks, but also a willingness to live up to that when the capricious but competent DM/GM calls us out on it. I see God's likeness in the GM; I think she will judge us according to ability and demand more from those who have been given or taken more. I trust her abilities to make those calls until proven wrong. I also trust her to overrule logics as befits the general enjoyment. Finally, my perception is that whereas difficult, most people enjoy the free creativity at present. If it doesn't float, we'll rebuild it. This is a ship, not an Ark.

Also, what kind of monks in what kind of monastery produces punch that tastes of goat urine!?!?

[ 02. May 2014, 15:54: Message edited by: JFH ]
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
Re finesse, doublethink confirmed somewhere on page 2 that it is like dexterity, so I think JFH's read on it is correct.

(Dude, Stone, pass the bottle. That smells like some great stuff my friends and I had way back when!)
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Character Name: "Rollin'" Stone Miller

Brief Physical Description: 6 ft tall, lean, somewhat bent stature, brown curly wild-growing hair, brown curly wild-growing beard, blue eyes, looks 30-50 years old, grimy trousers and jerkin, surrounded by a dust cloud.

Potentials:
▪ OK Wits 3
▪ Excellent Finesse 5
▪ Good Charm 4
▪ Useless Soul 1
▪ OK Muscles 3
▪ Weak Vigilance 2

Skills:
▪ Survival/Cooking (Wits)
▪ Repair (Finesse)
▪ Light Weapon (Muscles) (Preferably toothpick or whiskey bottle, but anything goes.)
▪ Scavenging (Vigilance)
▪ Crafting (Finesse)
▪ Scrounging (Charm)

Initial Perk:
▪ Dutch Courage - Can consume liquor if in possession of it to gain -1 Charm, -1 Wits, +2 Muscles for 1 week.

Gear:
▪ Trousers of the Cold Ground, Jerkin of the Dark Night
▪ Toothpick, Swiss Army version.
▪ The Blues. (How it works? If you have to ask, you'll never know.)
▪ Broken whiskey bottle (+1 to combat rolls or something appropriate)

Background:
A dust cloud moves closer, and suddenly stops in front of its interlocutor. A friendly, strangely reliable voice speaks and a hand is reached out in greeting, and the words "Spare some change?" are heard - that's all you'll remember of Rollin' Stone Miller, unless he wants you to. Behind that dust cloud rests a heavily bearded face with a constant smile, smooth-talking blue eyes and an eerie sense that although you might call him a tramp, it goes a little deeper than that.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Editing fail:

I think the idea of communal running of characters is well worth considering - but not for the test run.

JFH is right about the potentials description.

It is 18 point buy for the 6 potentials, + 1 perk, + 1 magic/special item/transform and + 6 skills. Transforms work by switching two stats and roleplay. Almost all perks will work by adding a plus to a roll. Perks are unique individual traits, skills are something you learn (and potentially anyone with the right opportunities could learn.) Also, vigilance is the stat used to determine the order of turns in combat or if you get to surprise someone - it is not a roll. Races are ornamental, at Kelly's request, I am aware that some feel that racial biases can be an issue that bleeds over too much into the real world. This means characteristics are toned down, Clawdine as a troll may not like the sun, cover up a lot in daytime and grumble - but she is not going to turn to stone. we ar enot building weaknesses into the mechanic of the system, but you can roleplay them as appropriate. Not everything needs to be defined by the stats.

What is acceptable as a perk, and how frequently you can use it is primarily a game balance issue.

IngoB is right that skills and perks will be acquired through game play. This system has no levels, or experience points - and it is through perks, skills and magic items that your endeavours will be rewarded.

Weapons will add a + to you combat roll, GM will specify.

Whilst I respect the points IngoB is making about character classes and skills lists, we are trying to make a simple system in which most things can be resolved through roleplay or a single d20 roll. If we something too complex it is going to be very difficult for anyone, bar those who participate in this original thread, to get involved.

We are hoping, I think to create a system we can reuse for threads in the future, with different players, different GMs and different settings. Ideally we want to reach a point in which we are going to have rules simple enough for a single OP. & a single character sheet OP.

For this reason I see the potentially infinitie variety of skills and perks, and the negotiation with the GM in character creation, as a feature not a bug.

The suggestion of late medieval / renaissance tech level plus magic setting - was derived by looking at what players generated and seeing what setting might best accomodate all of them - whilst doing the least violence to each character concept. I have assumed people have generated people they really would like to play. It is obviously not a perfect fit (sorry Miller !) but I hope it is reasonably close.

If information is crucial to the plot, and no one can read ancient scrolls, I will present that information with a different narrative device. Or create a situation in which the characters could find an interesting work around (perhaps they go bribe another wizard to read it for them and then have Clawdine just check the translation he is giving is honest ...)

Ideally, when we run, I'd like the narratives on the main thread to be number free with just the qualitative descriptions starred - getting the door open will be *hard*, the prince's most *excellent* charm immediately wins over the barkeep etc - so it reads like a shared story.

With the mechanic discussions etc on a separate thread. And everyone is being trusted to roll their own.

Please could a kindly host delete the one above.

[ 02. May 2014, 19:53: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
(done--K.A.)
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by IngoB:

In short, I think we should not overload the character creation with creativity as far as powers and stuff goes (creative descriptions is a different thing entirely). I think it would be better to have that clear and simple, and let the complexity grow within the game. And we could off-load some of individual mods on choosing a class / race.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
It is 18 point buy for the 6 potentials

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quote:

---

Originally posted by me:
[Arabella Adventurer]has never met a Dragon in her Cave, and furthermore a Cave is not a Dungeon. So she thinks she'll watch the other characters before trying it for herself.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
At the moment I feel the way I feel at baseball games when a fly ball comes my way: everyone else is reaching out to grab it, and I'm cowering in my seat with my hands over my eyes. I don't think I could contribute anything at all towards anything remotely task-oriented.

---

Your writing is funny. Our characters will work as a team, and as such we'll help one another build stories. Including yours. So your character will be somewhat existentially confused? So was Napoleon, St. Simeon the Holy Fool, and Robert Plant ("I AM A GOLDEN GOD!" when looking out over Sunset Boulevard). We'll help give you choices to make, help you know when to do what, not as parents but as team-mates of a team that's going to be dysfunctional whether you're in it or not. And it'll be fun having you in the group.

I'll admit I have myself secretly waited, looked at others, and tried to have an even selection of pure adaptations of their skills and added some that seemed reasonable. And Doublethink helped me out to get it better balanced. (IMMENSE THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HARD WORK, DT! REALLY! YOU'RE INSANELY HELPFUL AND GOOD AT THIS!) The 18 points are sort of an attempt to boil down a personality to 6 different areas of strengths/weaknesses. Skills are natural areas of expertise, whereas the perk is more of a super-ability, specially created for your character. If a skill demands overly intricate description of precisely what it does and at what times, it's probably a perk rather than a skill.

Also, again, I think the main fun lies in (dysfunctional) teamwork creating an unfolding story of both individual and team development. As part of that, even if you're existentially confused, somewhat with a bit of intellectual endowment (wit) or a good perception of what you're capable of (vigilance) or just a general good feeling can of course invite you to participate in a plan judging from your ability to contribute. It's not just your own duty to provide your contributions but for us to release it as a team. Also, who knows, maybe your character will just become best friends with someone else in the game and bring general mirth to the group. That's also a contribution, one that will unfold in the upcoming game which I look forward to a lot. So please join in, AR, and most importantly, have fun!
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
[cross-posted.]

Thanks, DT, but it feels even more confusing to try to figure out someone else's character. If I can't even understand this enough to figure out a character, I definitely can't figure it out enough to do anything.

~~~~~~~~

Arabella Adventurer is a very ordinary human. She has 7 points worth of Persistence, 7 points of Detail Orientation, 2 points of Wonder, and 2 points of Hope. These aren't listed as allowed Potentials, but she has no clue how to map her qualities that make her good at exploring Caves, into the Potentials that Dragons who live in Dungeons seem to like.

The only Weapons she will have are the ones she finds along the way, or picks up after they've been thrown at her (e.g. dwarf axes), so right now she is quite defenseless.

She has the Skill of making maps, and of remembering and using certain well-known magic words for teleportation in strictly limited locations. Oh wait, that's two Skills. Fine, one's a Skill and the other's a Perk.

She has no Equipment.

Apart from being rather muddy and scraped from scrambling all the way down a stream bed and trying (without success) to squeeze through a four-inch grate, she has no idea what she looks like.

[ 02. May 2014, 22:04: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Reboot / tweak Crazy Clawdine

quote:

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Character Name: Crazy Clawdine

Brief Physical Description:

A troll woman of indeterminable size, thanks to the many layers of tattered shawls that hang from her large frame. Her wild black matted hair has a life of its own, owing to the insect life that lives in it. She may look crazy, but her beady black eyes rarely miss much of what is going on around her, and she has a number of hidden and surprisingly useful talents.

Potentials:

Weak Wits
Useless Finesse
Weak Charm
Excellent Soul
OK Muscles
Excellent Vigilance

Skills:

Stealth (finesse)
Light weapon (muscles)
Find hidden (vigilance)
Spot deception (vigilance)
Survival (soul)
Hypnotise (soul)

Perk: Call Water, you sense water at all times and x1 per week can cause something withered to grow.

Special ability: A compliment turns Clawdine into a tall, leggy, well endowed and fast young woman, with blonde hair and a desire to run naked through water. Your finesse and vigilance ranks swap and you turn into a young naked woman. You can trigger this x1 per week in a situation where you have received a compliment - but if you are talking to yourself you can choose to compliment yourself, provided you roleplay a convincing reason.

Equipment:
Divining Rod (+1 to your roll when used as a weapon)
Distinctive blue caravan

---

I imagine Clawdine might look a bit like this, but if you look closer you see the wrinkles are really runnels carved through rock by water.

BTW I realise another character has survival based off another stat, but given Clawdine's water affinity is based on soul - and that is key to survival - I think it is narratively plausible and fits with the general feel of the character.
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
AR, for what it's worth, I haven't a clue what I'm doing either. But I know I can create a credible character, and we can't try out an RPG without characters. Clawdine may sink or swim, like the crones of old; but it may help us to create a workable game template for the future.

We are all sacrificial lambs in this one!
 

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Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
Thanks DT. That really nailed it.

Great pic by the way. But in my head she was a cross between Disney's Olga in the little mermaid and Esmerelda in The Hunchback of Notredam. I imagine she will have all sorts of things hidden in her caravan to surprise us along the way.



Also, can I say I really enjoyed your character of the dwarf. If we have a late comer who would like to join in, but struggles with character profile & allocation, maybe they could take over your "I am not a theif" dwarf.

[ 02. May 2014, 22:26: Message edited by: Banner Lady ]
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
OMG !

Firstly, pls see comment above about skills & perks - secondly, do you think it might help to have some skills related to weapons ?

We can work out human wall as a perk.

Ditch cover as a skill, combat mechanic is too simple to implement that. Fortitude might something we work into the human wall perk - but it is not a skill. You don't need alertness, that is covered by basic vigilance. Transport is a bit too broad, we have a seafarer already, perhaps animal transport.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
[cross-posted.]

Thanks, DT, but it feels even more confusing to try to figure out someone else's character. If I can't even understand this enough to figure out a character, I definitely can't figure it out enough to do anything.

~~~~~~~~

Arabella Adventurer is a very ordinary human. She has 7 points worth of Persistence, 7 points of Detail Orientation, 2 points of Wonder, and 2 points of Hope. These aren't listed as allowed Potentials, but she has no clue how to map her qualities that make her good at exploring Caves, into the Potentials that Dragons who live in Dungeons seem to like.

The only Weapons she will have are the ones she finds along the way, or picks up after they've been thrown at her (e.g. dwarf axes), so right now she is quite defenseless.

She has the Skill of making maps, and of remembering and using certain well-known magic words for teleportation in strictly limited locations. Oh wait, that's two Skills. Fine, one's a Skill and the other's a Perk.

She has no Equipment.

Apart from being rather muddy and scraped from scrambling all the way down a stream bed and trying (without success) to squeeze through a four-inch grate, she has no idea what she looks like.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariston:
Okay, tweaking/reworking (no, please, no portmanteaus of that one):
—Now that I've got a better idea of what "soul" does, I think it safe to say that Jetse doesn't have it. So 3/average wit, 1/useless soul.
—For skills:
Ride (wit): being around pack animals and riding with wagon trains means he knows how handle and ride a variety of creatures.
Climb (muscle)
Intimidate (wit): Guardian Vos is just a bit scary to be around.
Weapon proficiency (muscle): Years of military training and experience mean that he can effectively fight with most standard weapons
Spot (vigilance): A bit of paranoia, noticing everything out of place or not quite right, goes a long way, whether trying to anticipate an ambush, see through a disguise, or notice the odd body language of someone trying to run a con on the caravan master.
Accuracy (finesse): Jetse's blows and arrows are more likely to hit, less likely to miss.

As for magic items…I think all those pointy things pretty much make up for a lack of magic. If it doesn't, I'd like to say his halberd is especially well-made (does extra damage, hits a bit more often); I think of him as slightly suspicious of magic and magic items, more trusting of fine craftsmanship.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by IngoB:
OK, here's my draft character then, an Eskrimador / Arnista...

Character Name
Bayani Daniel Aquino Jr.

Brief Physical Description
Bayani is just under 6 feet tall, with the wiry but powerful body of a dancer. His looks are vaguely Hispanic with an Asian touch. The black hair framing his triangular face is neatly trimmed, and he sports a fine goatee. He usually wears simple brown and green clothes that hug his body tightly, and soft leather shoes. Bayani's moves are always smooth, flowing and graceful, but when stationary he becomes so perfectly still that people often overlook him in plain sight.

Potentials
Wits: 2 Weak
Finesse: 5 Excellent
Charm: 1 Useless
Soul: 3 OK
Muscles: 4 Good
Vigilance: 3 OK

---

quote:

---

Skills
Elastico (Finesse) - With the agility of a limbo dancer and the reflexes of a cat, Bayani can manage to stay in one place while acrobatically evading near everything coming at him, be it punches, swords, or even arrows. [Effect: Strong defensive bonus, in particular also against projectiles. Requires a stationary position and is ineffective on the move. Can be overcome by a rush / tackle of the enemy, but then provides one extra opportunity for a counterattack.]

Sinawali (Finesse) - Bayani can use two weapons with ease, weaving their strikes together into an irresistible attack pattern that is both graceful and very, very deadly. This translates into excellent empty hand fighting that relies more on flurries of combinations than extremely powerful strikes. [Effect: Strong attack bonus, if using two weapons at the same time that are not too large/heavy. Particularly deadly for double bladed weapons up to short sword size. In empty hand fighting, attack bonus for same size or smaller opponent, defensive bonus against larger opponents.]

Anting-Anting (Soul) - Bayani can cast powerful luck magic over wearable items, like a pendant or a cloth. The magic adheres to the object and stays with it until it is destroyed, whereupon the magic returns to Bayani. However, it is like distributing water from a pitcher: the more objects Bayani enchants the less magic sticks to each one of them. [Effect: Extraordinary luck happens to the wearer (whoever that is) of the anting-anting at completely random moments. The fewer objects Bayani has enchanted, the more frequent and intense / significant is this luck. The luck can take any form, but does benefit the wearer directly somehow.]

Juramentado (Muscles) - Given some time and space to prepare himself, Bayani can enter into a deep fighting trance that will be released into an explosion of utter violence with complete disregard for self-protection. There will be blood, broken bodies, and death - likely including that of Bayani. [Effect: Strong increase of chance to obliterate entire groups of enemies, traded for high risk of personal injury and even death. Like amok, but target specific - chance of collateral damage is low.]

Hilot (Vigilance) - The hands of Bayani are very sensitive and can work healing through the ancient arts of bone-setting and massage. While Bayani cannot instantly heal serious injuries, he can slip joints back into their sockets and arrange broken bones so that they heal up quickly and naturally. His massages can turn a bulky barbarian into a cooing baby, and rarely fail to relax and refresh the weary. [Effect: Bayani can ameliorate or heal minor injuries related to muscles and bones, and buff the flexibility and health of others with massage.]

---

These are basically framed as perks rather than skills - skills don't give bonuses to roles, they just make it possible to attempt a skilled action. Also, you are clearly an experienced roleplayer and have drawn on advanced concepts from established systems but I just don't think we can manage the complexity you have built into the skills when we have such a big range of experience in the player group. (Plus the asynchronus online issues.)

Perk Juramnetado - can make a group attack x1 per week

Skills

Sinwali (finesse) two handed fighting gives two attacks per combat turn
Hilot (finesse) massage, that can be used to heal
Anting-anting (soul) can enchant objects (effect situation specific and temporary)

This leaves you three skill slots, I advise at least one of these should be Light Weapon. And you could see if Elastico could be worked in some non-combat form.

Magic Item

Enchanted cod piece (or belt if you feel that is too silly) - x1 per week can swap finesse and charm ranks.

Each weapon used gives +1 to attack roll

Gear
Bayani travels lightly. Besides unremarkable clothes, he carries / wears:
1) A leather knapsack, filled with basic camping utensils, a felt mat, a change of clothes and various shaving tools. Notably, the knapsack has release hooks at its should straps that allow Bayani to let the knapsack fall off his back with one quick flick of his hand.
2) A belt with two curved blades that look like a cross between a machete and a saber, carried in two sheaths left and right for a front draw, plus a down-facing dagger carried in a sheath in the middle of the back for a back draw.
3) A thick brown leather jacket that ends at the waist (somewhat covering the weaponry, but without impeding the draw). The careful observer will note that the sleeves of the jacket close to the hands seem somewhat stiffer. There is steel reinforcement hidden beneath the leather there.
4) A round snug cap of very stiff dark brown leather that in the back has a usually rolled up thick sheet of leather, which can be released and rolled down to cover the entire back of the neck down to the top of the shoulders.
5) A sleek walking stick made of a black ironwood, surprising heavy in the hand, with a steel point at the bottom and a steel knob at the top.
6) A few small knives. Don't ask where they are kept, or Bayani will show you. In a dark corner. [/QB][/QUOTE]

[ 02. May 2014, 23:33: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
IngoB/Bayani, awesome work. Looks almost a bit overpowered, but I'll leave that to DT. Good to have you on board!

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
Similarly I am interested, but based on the limited involvement I had with this sort of thing *coff* 25+ years ago, I'm not sure I can get into it as quickly

I've been trying to think of a "Joe Average" who has a "3" for all the Potentials, but skills that make him essential to still be in the group like being the only one who knows how to fix the photocopier, can work out the answers to cryptic crosswords or will go and make a cup of tea when others are busy. And a perk that is completely out of character like being a succesful drag queen act every other weekend in a Lesbian bar.

---

How does this look?

Name: Baiskle Rieperman

Potentials:
OK Wits
OK Finesse
OK Charm
OK Soul
OK Muscle
OK Vigilance

Skills:
Disarm traps (Wits)
Repair (Finesse)
Barter (Charm)
Dispel (Soul) (Can free some, but perhaps not all, cursed things from their accursedness)
Lockpick (Muscle) (Muscle because he just knows fairly well how to kick a door to get it to open)
Hide (Vigilance)

Choose your own perk as you find appropriate. Hope this helps! If you don't use these skills, I think they're fairly safe "steals" for those not sure what might be considered skills and who think these would fit their characters. Given that Innocent Tyler, DT's dwarven kleptomaniac, is not joining the band, it seems as if we might find use for some thievin' skills as well, even if Clawdine could at times do the job. Pickpocketing might be a useful skill, for example, or forgery.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gwai:

Character Name: Jerthro

Brief Physical Description:
Very fit looking young man. Probably 18 or so though he claims to be 25 usually.

General Description:
Sometimes bumbling, usually over-confident, but always cheerful, Jerthro is seriously excited to be on this adventure, and he knows it's going to be great!

Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 18 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

Weak Wits
Weak Finesse
Good Charm
OK Soul
Good Muscles
OK Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

Skill (potential)

Power Through (muscles ) One of Jerthro's main strengths and at the same time weaknesses is his confidence that he can he can power through whatever he needs to power through. Climb a cliff even though he's never done anything like? He'll power through it better than a sensible soul would expect. Fix that sensitive machine? It'll probably need to be fixed after he's done powering through it! (In other words, he's very good at using his muscles to "fix" a problem.

Scouting (vigilance) "How about I go check what is coming up? It'll be fun! I'll be back before breakfast."

Calm (charm) Jerthro has a way of annoying some people, but usually he can calm people down too. He's friendly, and self-deprecating in a way that tends to remind people he's young, foolish, and exceedingly forgivable.

Infatiguable (Soul) Jerthro may not be experienced, but he tends to keep going very well. By the time Jerthro gives up exhausted, most sane people sat down to rest hours ago.

Slot 6 (tied potential)

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.

Leather armour kit -- Looking at the size and the way it fits Jerthro, one suspects he inherited it from his dad.

(Would it be possible for this to be magical in some small way, but have Jerthro not know that?)

Sword and dagger -- Plain but decent. Again look like they've had more wear than Jerthro has.

Backpack and camping supplies --New, unused even, and rather excessive. For instance, no one needs three different ways to start a fire, surely?

Perk: Energetic Confidence Jerthro tends to be excited about a new adventure, whether it be a fight or a task, and when he is excited he tends to infect everyone with his cheerful confidence. *

*Doublethink, how should this work mechanics-wise?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
These are basically framed as perks rather than skills - skills don't give bonuses to roles, they just make it possible to attempt a skilled action.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Also, you are clearly an experienced roleplayer and have drawn on advanced concepts from established systems but I just don't think we can manage the complexity you have built into the skills when we have such a big range of experience in the player group.

---

Not really. As mentioned on the poll thread, about 15 years ago I was a MUD (multi-user dungeons) player and - perhaps more importantly - programmer. That's pretty much all the role playing experience I have. I have never even touched a "real" roleplaying game, other than I think for a couple of nights with some friends twenty years ago. Frankly, most of the time I have no real idea what you are talking about here, with rolls and perks and whatnot. It's all a bit different when you are hacking MUD code, I guess more technical but thereby also a lot simpler. It's all just numbers and lists getting shuffled about there behind the scenes... So my "advanced concepts" is really just me thinking about what I would have tweaked in the code about 15 years ago.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Perk Juramnetado - can make a group attack x1 per week

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Anting-anting (soul) can enchant objects (effect situation specific and temporary)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
This leaves you three skill slots, I advise at least one of these should be Light Weapon.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Enchanted cod piece (or belt if you feel that is too silly) - x1 per week can swap finesse and charm ranks.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Each weapon used gives +1 to attack roll

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariston:
Okay, tweaking/reworking (no, please, no portmanteaus of that one):
—Now that I've got a better idea of what "soul" does, I think it safe to say that Jetse doesn't have it. So 3/average wit, 1/useless soul.
—For skills:
Ride (wit): being around pack animals and riding with wagon trains means he knows how handle and ride a variety of creatures.
Climb (muscle)
Intimidate (wit): Guardian Vos is just a bit scary to be around.
Weapon proficiency (muscle): Years of military training and experience mean that he can effectively fight with most standard weapons
Spot (vigilance): A bit of paranoia, noticing everything out of place or not quite right, goes a long way, whether trying to anticipate an ambush, see through a disguise, or notice the odd body language of someone trying to run a con on the caravan master.
Accuracy (finesse): Jetse's blows and arrows are more likely to hit, less likely to miss.

As for magic items…I think all those pointy things pretty much make up for a lack of magic. If it doesn't, I'd like to say his halberd is especially well-made (does extra damage, hits a bit more often); I think of him as slightly suspicious of magic and magic items, more trusting of fine craftsmanship.

---

Right, well firstly, now I can't get the image of your character twerking out of my head - so thanks for that.

Weapons proficiency gives you a lot of bang for your buck, whilst accuracy won't work in a simple combat system like ours. So how about you get to keep weapons proficiency, but you drop accuracy without replacing it with another skill ? i think your spot is similar to find hidden that other characters have, but I am happy for you to keep it. Definitely makes sense for your character.

I am going to suggest your special item is your armour, which is so well made it gives your opponents - 1 to their attack roll. You only fight with one weapon at a time and any of your weapons will give you +1 to your attack roll. You will find this makes no difference at ridiculous contest levels - but is otherwise an advantage.

Human wall perk - either you can choose in that in a fight all opponents attack you but the first wound you are dealt has no effect and you can choose to do this in any fight - or simply you ignore the first wound dealt in a fight, but can only do it x1 per week. Which would you prefer ?

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1. You're Welcome
2. That sounds like a fair trade. I'm figuring out why DnD has its fighters be feat/perk driven rather than skill driven—being able to have lots of special attacks, rather than, say, speak languages or read magical scrolls is more of a fighter thing. Coming up with six unique, good, not overpowered skills was hard. Five will work nicely.
3. I'll take the rest of your suggestions, and I'll take the "everybody attacks me" version of the feat/perk.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
IngoB

To be a fighter you needed to have trained in fightery things - such as weapons use. So yeah if someone built a fighter with only heavy or ranged he'd struggle with light. Ariston has taken weapon proficency to be skilled with all weapons - but dropped to five skills. You can do that if you want.

You don't have to have a magic object to transform. But it is 1 perk, 1 magic thing. I was trying to keep as much of your character as possible, and if you had a group fight perk, it was the only way I could wedge in the don juan thing.

When you enter combat you will be told how hard it is. For example if it is OK, you will need to roll 10 or above to hit, weapon over just hitting with your fist adds +1 to your roll. So you might roll a 9 but get to deal a wound because the p+1 modifies your roll up to 10.
 

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Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on :
 
Edited

quote:

---

Character Name: Jerthro

Brief Physical Description:
Very fit looking young man. Probably 18 or so though he claims to be 25 usually.

General Description:
Sometimes bumbling, usually over-confident, but always cheerful, Jerthro is seriously excited to be on this adventure, and he knows it's going to be great!

Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 18 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

Weak Wits
Weak Finesse
Good Charm
OK Soul
Good Muscles
OK Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

Bows (Muscles) Jerthro has hunted for his family regularly using his bow

Scouting (vigilance) "How about I go check what is coming up? It'll be fun! I'll be back before breakfast."

Soothe (charm) Jerthro can be very annoying to some people, but he gets in remarkably few fights considering. He just seems to have this knack for knowing how to soothe people.

Intuition (Wits) Jerthro is remarkably good at reading people considering how dumb he is. Now expressing that...

Plant/Animal Knowledge (wits) Jerthro has spent a LOT of time outside, so he has an almost encyclopedic knowledge of the flora and fauna of his area

Sword (muscles) Jerthro has not ever fought in a real battle although he'd say he has, but he's pretty decent with a sword considering.

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.

Leather armour kit -- Looking at the size and the way it fits Jerthro, one suspects he inherited it from his dad. (Gives fatherly advice once a week though Jerthro doesn't know it)

Bow and arrows

Sword and dagger -- Plain but decent. Again look like they've had more wear than Jerthro has.

Backpack and camping supplies --New, unused even, and rather excessive. For instance, no one needs three different ways to start a fire, surely?

Perk: Power Through (muscles ) One of Jerthro's main strengths and at the same time weaknesses is his confidence that he can he can power through whatever he needs to power through. Climb a cliff even though he's never done anything like? He'll power through it better than a sensible soul would expect. Fix that sensitive machine? It'll probably need to be fixed after he's done powering through it! (In other words, he's very good at using his muscles to "fix" a problem.*

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
JFH, I guess I'm in. Fictitious A. may be able to help Arabella out with some more comic-relief misadventures.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
I thought 20 was about right - it was enough for one exceptional stat, or two good ones, and OK in the rest, with additional specialities paid for with weaknesses. 18 is enough for OK at everything with no talents, and I think PCs should be shade better than that. But I'll re-do Gunriana at an 18 pointer.

---

I see your point, and it might add a bit more hero feeling to do it your way. My own motive for asking for 18 is that I think it enforces weaknesses, which I think is a good thing. Most of all, weaknesses and a need for covering one another's backs brings about teamwork much better than strengths would, I think. The more backs the beast has, the better the teamwork, don't you think?
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:

You don't have to have a magic object to transform. But it is 1 perk, 1 magic thing. I was trying to keep as much of your character as possible, and if you had a group fight perk, it was the only way I could wedge in the don juan thing.
[/QB]

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart:
OK, here goes!

Character Name: Hestor Snear, cupbearer to the elite.

Brief Physical Description: Hestor, though tall, is sufficiently slender to lurk unnoticed in the slightest of shadows, enabling the best eavesdropping. He is one of those people whose age is impossible to guess. No one can quite remember when he wasn't around, and he's certainly not young, but no-one would call him old. His black robes are in no way ostentatious, but the precision tailoring that produced them must have been paid for by the GDP of several prosperous villages. Depending on who he was blackmailing at the time, it probably was.

Potentials:

Wits: Good
Finesse: OK
Charm: Excellent
Soul: Useless
Muscles: Useless
Vigilance: Good

Skills:

Lurking (Vigilance)
Bargaining (Charm)
Judge of Character (Wits)
Disarm (Finesse)
Find escape route (Wits)
Persuade (Charm)

Perk:
Call in a favor. Hestor has accrued a vast network of people who owe him favors. He can, very occasionally, summon a "friend" with a specific skill lacked by the team.

Equipment:
Banquet set. The ceremonial part of Hestor's role might be notional, but it's not imaginary. He can furnish a feast at a moment's notice. Poached quail egg anyone?
Black cloak, perfect for lurking unseen in the shadows.
Periscope, for peeking around corners unseen.

---

OK this is a good start. Liking the perk, this will be available x1 per week.

Need to adjust your skills, I see where you are goung with this, just needs a fine tune.

Drop disarm, in this system what will happen is that the opponent will then hit you, and your useless muscles will make you ridiculously easy to knock out.

Take Poisons - it would so fit your theme - you can have it based on finesse on the grounds that making a poison without killing yourself in the process is fiddly You can have lurking, which is effectively stealth.

Bargaining is fine as is persuade, but you probably don't need both. Alternatively, you just take Blackmail as a skill ? (Based on charm.)

Your wits based skills are too perk-like. So you have three to find. Have a think, and let me know.

Oh, and given your periscope is a special item, would you like it to be magical in some way ?

[ 03. May 2014, 08:02: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
OK if I have this right, everyone has a finalised character except IngoB and Hart who each have a character in development.

I shall send a pm to each of you with a completed character, containing a finalised character sheet. We'll be able to start the trial run once the last two characters are finished.

When we start the the trial run, there will be one Story thread and one Metagame thread. The Story thread will open with a GM post setting the scene, the meta-game thread will start with a standardised OP explaining the in-game mechanics and the meta-game rules (e.g. one rolled action per day etc). Once the meta-game thread opens I would like you to post your finalised character sheet to that thread for reference.

As GM I can guarantee to read and respond at least once per day. If you get into a contested combat or other complex action - I may pm you to arrange a time to come online together and work through the contest in a reasonable time frame.

If other players observe this happening, please avoiding posting till we complete or it will get very difficult to follow. This should be quite rare and I will open up a contest with a GM post that makes clear what is happening.
 

---

Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
My impression is that Wet Kipper expressed an interest in joining, but maybe he won't. Also, no idea how long this trial run will last, so there will probably be more games later on for people to join in on.

DT, I'm not sure what would be a suitable Magic Item for Stone Miller. The Blues could work, I guess, but no idea what it would actually be used for.
 

---

Posted by Banner Lady (# 10505) on :
 
What happens when it comes to a die-roll?
Is this something that is an on-line thing, or does the GM do this, or is it a combination of the GM and the players rattling dice in cups alongside their computer boards?

Enquiring minds want to know!
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
So say you tell me:

Clawdine listens to the explanation the man gives, she is trying to *spot deception*

A little while later I come along and read your post (in which I am sure all sorts of interesting things will have happened, but only one thing requiring a roll)

I make a GM post saying, Clawdine is excellent at spotting deception so this will be an *easy* contest.
---
On you character sheet it tells you what range of numbers you need to succeed at an *easy* roll. In fact you need to roll between 5 and 20 on a twenty sided dice. If you don't own a twenty sided dice you can use a website to do it for you - e.g. http://www.roll-dice-online.com/ - you roll one 20 sided dice once.
---

You then post saying whether Clawdine was successful or not - if you fail with a 1 or succeed with 20 you repor that as *ridiculously successful* or *rediculously unsuccessful*.

The GM will then read this, and post an outcome for you. "Clawdine sees he is being entirely honest", or "Clawdine has no idea what he is trying to tell her and gives up trying to arrange hiring the horse" or whatever.

We trust you to roll your own dice But if you are unsure you will be able to go onto the metagame thread and ask for help before making your post on the story thread.

[ 03. May 2014, 12:46: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I may have missed a post but I think maybe Kelly's character Brandon is also not yet complete ?
 

---

Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
On you character sheet it tells you what range of numbers you need to succeed at an *easy* roll. In fact you need to roll between 5 and 20 on a twenty sided dice. If you don't own a twenty sided dice you can use a website to do it for you - e.g. http://www.roll-dice-online.com/ - you roll one 20 sided dice once.
---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by IngoB:
DT, hold your horses. I'm working on an update to my character myself...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
I may have missed a post but I think maybe Kelly's character Brandon is also not yet complete ?

---

• Crazy Clawdine
• Arabella Adeventurer
• Rollin' Stone Miller
• Gunriana De Vanės
• Guardian Jetse Vos
• Jerthro

• Hestor Snear
• Brandon Covey
• Bayani Daniel Aquino Jr
• Prince Testwe Rakta
• Daniel Van Adescant

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
Daniel Van Adescant

Physical Description:
Van Adescant is tall and thin, with a thing for wide-brimmed hats and long black coats. He has blondish hair with pale skin, and a slightly unfocused stooping gaze. He keeps a scarf about his neck at all times.
He carries a spear and a crossbow when he's travelling.

Wits: 5. Excellent.
Finesse: 3. OK.
Charm: 2. Poor.
Soul: 3. OK.
Muscle: 2. Poor.
Vigilance: 2. Poor.

Skills:
Occult (Wits): Van Adescant knows a lot about undead, lycnathropes, dark magic, etc. He can probably rustle up rituals or so given time; whether it is wise to do so is another matter.
Turn Undead (Soul): using a holy symbol or pair of candlesticks, etc, he can temporarily ward off dark magic, undead. He can also perform ninor infusions of positive energy - healing cuts and scrapes, minor blessings, etc.
Crossbow: (Finesse). Useful for stakes.
Investigation: (Vigilance/ Wits). Can spot clues in any area if he searches it, and leap to conclusions ignoring red herrings.
Interrogation: (Charm): He knows ways of asking questions without the people he's talking to realising what he's asking for.
Staff / Spear Fighting: (Finesse): Also, flaming torches.

Perk:
Brood: Van Adescant can spend time brooding in cemeteries or similar dark places (over the death of his parents at the hands of vampires while he was ten). If he's just spent time brooding, he gets bonuses to subsequent Charm rolls for things like striding impressively through doors, whipping up mobs, and impressing teenagers or anthropomorphic personifications of dreams, and such like.

Magic Item: Van Adescant has a curious contraption made of wire and two pieces of glass. If he puts it over his eyes (resting on his ears and nose) his Vigilance, for the purposes of looking at items close by, rises to Excellent.

Other possessions:
Stakes and hammer, holy water, holy symbol, garlic and wolfsbane, crossbow, silver arrows, ordinary arrows, spear, pocket breviary.

---

quote:

---

SOF RPG

Roleplay gaming is a sort of communal story telling. You have a gamesmaster (GM) and a group of players. The GM has an overarching plot for the players, and acts any people they meet. The players each have a character with specific knowledge and abilities, and the group of players will be told they have some sort of mission. A set of rules provides a way of resolving chance, conflict and interesting situations.

To cite Jeff Vogel, any game system that can't be understood by someone's significant other on their first night playing the game after they've had two beers is too complicated. With that in mind this is the Ship’s very own system, and we hope it meets that test ! It was generated out of a circus discussion thread once upon a time ...

***

Generating Your Character

There are six fundamental Potentials, which reflect your strengths and weakness in dealing with the world. You have a rank of Useless, Weak, OK, Good or Excellent in each Potential. To establish your character, you have 18 points to buy your Potential ranks, they cost 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 respectively.

These Potentials are Wits, Finesse, Charm, Soul, Muscles & Vigilance. To give you an idea of what they are good for, here are some suggested synonyms:

• 

• Wits - Intelligence, Strategic Insight, Learning Capacity

• Finesse - Dexterity, Agility, Precision Handiwork

• Charm - Charisma, Social Capacity, Speak

• Soul - Magical ability, Spiritual Strength, Wisdom
• Muscles - Physique, Constitution, Strength, Melee Combat

• Vigilance - Perception Ability, Sensing Capacity, Reaction

You then select 6 skills, these can be anything it is possible to learn. Each skill will be based on one of your Potentials - for example, if you have bluff based on charm and your charm is good - then your bluff will be good. If you attempt a skilled action when you do not have the skill, it will be ridiculously hard to succeed.

You may then agree a perk with the GM, this is a unique special talent your character has, it will usually add a bonus to a dice roll. What is acceptable as a perk, and how frequently you can use it is primarily a game balance issue.

Additonal skills and perks will be acquired through game play. This system has no levels, or experience points - and it is through perks, skills and special items or abilities that your endeavours will be rewarded.

You then choose 1 special item or transformation. In a magical setting, you may choose an enchanted object - in a non-magical setting this may be something unique, valuable or highly unusual. In a magical setting you can choose to have a Transformation instead. Transformations work by switching the ranks of 2 Potentials and roleplaying the effect.

Now you have the skeleton of your character, you need to flesh out the details. Where do they come from ? What are their motivations ? what race or social class are they ? What experiences have they had that lead them to be who they are today ? What Mundane equipment are they carrying ? Races are ornamental, because some feel that racial biases can be an issue that bleeds over too much into the real world. This means the characteristics of fantasy races are toned down, a troll may not like the sun, cover up a lot in daytime and grumble - but she is not going to turn to stone.

***

Contest & Combat Mechanics

When you want to do something narratively important, the GM tells you how hard it will be, based on your rank in the relevant Potential or Skill.

You then roll a 20 sided dice to see if you succeed, (if you do not own one you can find websites to do this). It will be either Ridiculously Easy (0 fails), Easy (5 and under fails) Needs Effort (10 and under fails), Hard (15 and under fails) or Ridiculously Hard (only rolling a 20 will do, regardless of bonuses.)

You will only need to roll one die for anything, and magic objects or weapons will just add a set bonus e.g. +1 to your roll.

If you succed on a Ridiculously Hard roll, the GM will give you a permanent additional skill, working it into the story. If you fail a Ridiculously Easy roll, you will suffer a temporary ill effect woven into the story by the GM.

In some cases, usually combat, an opponent will be trying to stop you succeeding. In this situation, if we start from an equal contest Needing Effort - each rank of difference between you and your opponent moves the difficulty up or down one. The GM will tell you the difficulty you have to roll for. Weapons add a bonus to your combat roll, this will be listed on your character sheet. If it is important to know who goes first, it will be based on who has the best Vigilance rank or the direction of the story.

Combat Damage

Ridiculously Easy Combat Success - wound & leave for dead (recipient is unconscious, can't be attacked again unless they are seen to recover - or you are assassinating outside a combat scenario)
Easy Combat Success - wound and disarm (recipient has no weapons bonus till next turn)
OK Combat Success - wound
Hard Combat Success - wound
Ridiculously Hard Combat Success - wound & stun opponent, they can't hit you again for a turn

(Ridiculously Easy fail, you wound yourself with an explanation from the GM)

Every wound taken by a character or opponent moves the difficulty up or down. So if combat starts off Needing Effort, and you take a wound, it will become hard. However, if you wound them it will become Easy.

***

Setting

This system can be used for any world, with any level of technology and both with and without functional magic.

This story is taking place in an earth like world, with magic and a late medieval / renaissance technological level.

***

Metagame

There will be a story thread, with an opening post by the GM, and this metagame thread. Anything you need to say out of character should be said here. When making reference to game mechanics on the story thread, please use starred qualitative descriptions - this is an *easy* fight, it will be *ridiculously hard* to climb that cliff, I would like to see if I can*find hidden* gems in this cave etc

You can make multiple posts per day, but only upto one post per day per character should require dice rolling. You can use the metagame thread to ask for help from other players or the GM if you are not sure about something.

Below is a model character sheet format.

***

Model Character Sheet

Player:

Character Name:

Brief Physical Description:


Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 18 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

• Wits
• Finesse
• Charm
• Soul
• Muscles
• Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

• Skill (Potential)
• Skill (Potential)
• Skill (Potential)
• Skill (Potential)
• Skill (Potential)
• Skill (Potential)

Perk:

Special item / Transformation:

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Hart iI think your poison split would better resolved through roleplay. But thinking about your earlier escape routes proposal, would you like Free running based off finesse ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
Ok modified

Character Name: Prince Testwe Rakta

Weak(2) Rank Wits
Good(4) Rank Finesse
Excellent(5)Rank Charm
Ok(3) Rank Soul
Useless(1) Rank Muscles
Ok(3) Rank Vigilance

Night-watchperson (vigilence) Testwe is a better watchperson than expected at night as he can't sleep in 'rough' conditions
Reputation (finesse) skilled at conversations with those deferential to royalty (or otherwise affected by 'pulling rank')
Conversationalist (charm) skilled at broaching conversations with the most unlikely people in the most unlikely situations who may say more than they mean
Regal-Hunting (soul) riding horses is obvious royal training and is slightly better with royal birds than expected (can't do the boring stuff, though)
Fencing (finesse) more skilled at fighting when dealing with people who fght according to 'rules'

Perk
Always their fault.
Not sure how to operate yet,

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.
(if can start with stuff)
Princely fine rapier
Flute
Spinning thing

Other notes:

At the beginning he hasn't learnt the dangers of the real world and has unrealistic expectations.
Thus giving a chance to confirm that things work ok (and he loses when he should), but he will learn quickly (before it gets boring)

The parody backstory is to be taken as more metaphorical, to match a more serious fantasy.
Rather than the original attempt to exploit cliches to justify silly (exploratory) behaviour, while trying to satarise the cliches.
Will try to keep the interesting traits, but add aspects of the 'Face' prism.

---

OK, you don't need conversationalist - basic charm will do that for you. Night-watchman is clearly important to your character, but it isn't a skill. Take that as your perk instead of always their fault. It will give you +1 to vigilance rolls made at night.

You need a magic item - I suggest a bag of holding. (See description earlier in the thread). You might have a ridiculously large number of princely outfits in it but nothing of practical use to start with.

This leaves you with 3 skills to pick. Why not wait till some of the characters are finalised, I will then do a list of all the skills the party has available to it, and we can see if there is anything we definitely need. If not - to go with your character concept - you could have credit, flower arranging and courtly poetry.

---

This was where we upto I think, I had suggested you got Nightwatchman as a perk, and that you could pick three skills. I suggested a bag of holding as your magic item but you can have something else if you like ?

(I am afraid your suggested perk is too complicated for me to do.)

[ 03. May 2014, 17:18: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

---

Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :
 
Thanks I'd missed that. That sounds fine.
(although actually I'll keep the flute, after all I have a retinue to carry stuff )

[ 03. May 2014, 17:23: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hart:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Hart iI think your poison split would better resolved through roleplay. But thinking about your earlier escape routes proposal, would you like Free running based off finesse ?

---

Sounds good. So, that gives me:

Skills
Lurking (Vigilance)
Poisons (Wits)
Free running (Finesse)
Blackmail (Charm)
Lock-picking (Finesse)
Treasure evaluating (Wits)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
Thanks I'd missed that. That sounds fine.
(although actually I'll keep the flute, after all I have a retinue to carry stuff )

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
Thanks I'd missed that. That sounds fine.
(although actually I'll keep the flute, after all I have a retinue to carry stuff )

---

It can go in your bag of holding ... I'll do up your character sheet.

---

1. A leather knapsack, filled with basic camping utensils, a felt mat, a change of clothes and various shaving tools. The knapsack has release hooks at its shoulder straps that allow it to be dropped with a flick of the hand.
2. A belt with two curved blades that look like a cross between a machete and a saber, carried in two sheaths left and right for a front draw, plus a down-facing dagger carried in a sheath in the middle of the back for a back draw.
3. A thick brown leather jacket that ends at the waist (somewhat covering the weaponry, but without impeding the draw). The sleeves of the jacket have steel reinforcement hidden beneath the leather at the wrists.
4. A snug cap of very stiff dark brown leather from which a leather sheet can be rolled down to cover the entire back of the neck.
5. A few small knives. Don't ask where they are kept, or Bayani will show you. In a dark corner.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
There are six fundamental Potentials, which reflect your strengths and weakness in dealing with the world. You have a rank of Useless, Weak, OK, Good or Excellent in each Potential. To establish your character, you have 18 points to buy your Potential ranks, they cost 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 respectively.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
You then select 6 skills, these can be anything it is possible to learn. ... You may then agree a perk with the GM, this is a unique special talent your character has, it will usually add a bonus to a dice roll.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Races are ornamental, because some feel that racial biases can be an issue that bleeds over too much into the real world.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
If you succed on a Ridiculously Hard roll, the GM will give you a permanent additional skill, working it into the story. If you fail a Ridiculously Easy roll, you will suffer a temporary ill effect woven into the story by the GM.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Combat Damage

Ridiculously Easy Combat Success - wound & leave for dead (recipient is unconscious, can't be attacked again unless they are seen to recover - or you are assassinating outside a combat scenario)
Easy Combat Success - wound and disarm (recipient has no weapons bonus till next turn)
OK Combat Success - wound
Hard Combat Success - wound
Ridiculously Hard Combat Success - wound & stun opponent, they can't hit you again for a turn

(Ridiculously Easy fail, you wound yourself with an explanation from the GM)

Every wound taken by a character or opponent moves the difficulty up or down. So if combat starts off Needing Effort, and you take a wound, it will become hard. However, if you wound them it will become Easy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
You can make multiple posts per day, but only upto one post per day per character should require dice rolling.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Kwuwago (Vigilance) you can have, but, I have some doubts how it will play.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
I don't think Balin will work, because we have no real way of modelling unarmed combat over and above what everyone can do. Thematically, you can describe your method of unarmed combat in this way though.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
So you are short one skill, what about a specific form of horsemanship or equivalent from your character's native land ? You can base this on the Muscles potential.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
The anting-anting amulet is fine, I would operationalise that as the ability to re-roll once per week, but I will need you to choose to do that (I know that across 7 days with 11 players - potentially 77 actions - I will forget.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
(Maybe an eagle transform ?)

---

quote:

---

Mr Natural - Bayani is naturally resistant to black magic or other negative spiritual effects, and will make anything / anyone evil and supernatural fail even in his immediate surroundings. However, he is receptive to white magic and positive spiritual effects.

So basically easier defence against magic attacks, magic traps, and easier attacks on ghosts, the undead etc. And perhaps occasionally some annoyance or hilarity as he inadvertently cancels some spell by the group's black magic users.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Expect me to stand around cluelessly until some kindly player or GM says "Arabella, you need to say <this> and then you need to do <that>, and place your asterisks around <these> words."

---

Don't worry, we will (On the metagame thread.)

'Winning' is the party completing the quest really. You are not individually going to tank that. If the entire party end up brawling in a tavern they may never get there of course ....

I once GMed a party where a guy always generated a character would always turn homicidal if you violated some obscure self-imposed roleplay trope - he thought you had insulted his brother or whatever - the result being half the party always ended up killing each other. On one occasion I couldn't get them out of the town before the entire party had managed to massacred itself.

So hey, what's the worst that can happen ?
 

---

Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
I think obtaining a skill through succeeding at something hard is not random, it is learning through experience - a benefit of a critical success.

---

quote:

---

The combat system is designed not kill the player characters unless they want to leave the game.

---

quote:

---

We could drop perks altogether and just have two magic / special items. It would be simpler.

---

quote:

---

Personally, I don't have strong feelings about the race issue - but I do feel we should be as inclusive as possible in terms of the games system.

---

quote:

---

An RPG that isn't plotted as dungeon crawl is not primarily a combat game. Fighters are necessary and used, but combat will be intermittent.

---

quote:

---

The point of limiting the action rolls is to avoid getting swamped, however, the suggestion you make could work and I would be happy to try it, if others agree.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:
That said, I'm also thrown by the idea that skills give the ability to attempt things you wouldn't otherwise and perks give bonuses. Most RPGs tend to be the other way around for most skills.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Your Shola scenario is entirely possible in the system as currently operationalised, all it requires is the GM to reveal this knowledge to you in some way - perhaps it is a well known initiation test or whatever - and to include it in the plot.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
The combat system is designed not kill the player characters unless they want to leave the game. They are defeated rather than slaughtered. Given the speed of an online game, and the amount of time and energy invested in the characters, I don't think most players would be content for their character to be mince as a result of a bad dice roll.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
We could drop perks altogether and just have two magic / special items. It would be simpler.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Personally, I don't have strong feelings about the race issue - but I do feel we should be as inclusive as possible in terms of the games system. I think it a problem, if it makes people uncomfortable.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Giving stun in combat for a ridiculously hard success, is essentially a critical hit bonus ( lucky strike) - a useless character fighting an excellent character will never have the remotest chance of winning - even after dealing a critical hit - without this.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
The point of limiting the action rolls is to avoid getting swamped, however, the suggestion you make could work and I would be happy to try it, if others agree.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Detriment on a 1 roll is temporary not permanent.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Stealth based off Vigilance would be fine, makes perfect sense logically and for your character.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
If you read through the thread you will find everyone's draft characters. We have a fair few riders and a caravan, so being a rider shouldn't be a problem. However, we have no swimmers - and I am sure it would be useful at some point.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Yeah that perk could work, x1 per week on the first offensive casting encountered that week.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by IngoB:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
The combat system is designed not kill the player characters unless they want to leave the game. They are defeated rather than slaughtered. Given the speed of an online game, and the amount of time and energy invested in the characters, I don't think most players would be content for their character to be mince as a result of a bad dice roll.

---

Sorry, I'm still coming at this from a MUD perspective. If you die, you typically get reborn. Usually there is some penalty involved, e.g., a reduction in character progression. Also, you usually have to walk back to your corpse to recover your stuff, unless your friends help. I guess all this doesn't work so well here.

Anyway, I was thinking about NPCs. Can I chop some goblin's head off, or can I merely (but fairly) leave him for dead as well?

Perhaps a way forward would be to have some funky "resurrect" magic in the game, which our healers / magic users can employ in case one of the group had his head removed? Within limits, of course.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Most D&D groups I have played with have used the rule that 0 hit points is unconscious, but stable, -1 or less is unconscious and bleeding out at 1 hit point per round, and -10 is dead. Actual character death under that sort of system is relatively rare, but being on negative hit points means something, and gives the healers meaningful decisions to make because there is often a cost or risk to spending time in a crisis picking up someone who might be dead next round.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by IngoB:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:
Most D&D groups I have played with have used the rule that 0 hit points is unconscious, but stable, -1 or less is unconscious and bleeding out at 1 hit point per round, and -10 is dead. Actual character death under that sort of system is relatively rare, but being on negative hit points means something, and gives the healers meaningful decisions to make because there is often a cost or risk to spending time in a crisis picking up someone who might be dead next round.

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Cool mechanics, at least if the damage done per strike is not many dozens of HP. Otherwise there will be lots of "one-shotted to death" scenarios. Anyway, we don't have HP here. What we could do though is to require healing within say two rounds if "left for dead", or you are indeed dead. Then healers might be likewise torn between keeping the remaining combatants alive in an ongoing battle and caring for those already fallen.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by IngoB:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
We could drop perks altogether and just have two magic / special items. It would be simpler.

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That's not the problem. The problem is that what people intuitively suggest as skill is often a perk. They try to specify an action range for their character, rather than an action. And fair enough, if one has only six slots available, then it is natural to not want to sacrifice them for some specific action. I would actually suggest to go the opposite way. Have six perk-like "action ranges" that will allow a variety of actions according to the GM's judgement, and perhaps one specific "special action".

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I disagree. Most of the problem IMO comes from posters trying to overspecify skills to get something very specific and way cool. Read it through, 90 % or so of the skills needing rework are ones that had an explanation afterwards to specify their coolness/what they did - I include my own. I think you're interpreting the word "skill" in one sense (special move) and forgetting that not all others agree (i.e. interpreting it as a skill set coming from experience in something, like "lockpick", "seamanship", "bluff").

No, you're not the only one not getting it at first, but you seem to base your idea of skills and perks as well as game mechanics and the ensuing argumentation on a game differing from the one the rest of us have been setting up, in 3 important regards:

1) the basic rules of combat. Once you can construct a skill or perk that works with those rules already in place, then you can complain that the perks/skills are not clear as to what they do. Until that point, it seems more to be frustration following from the next two steps.

2) internal logic/lack of arbitrariness. There seems to be a difference in how much you and others just accept the degree to which we can think "the GM will sort this out as it comes along". The point is that I think, given that this is a test run, that the degree to which orcs with chopped-off heads can be explained to be "mutations with brain matter in their rear ends" if the GM needs to, should be kept pretty high. Especially since this is a game with many beginners. Especially if you're a beginner yourself since you don't know how many different parameters might enter into it if you start looking for trouble and outsmart them all.

3) authenticity. Nobody else has been naming their every singelydingely skill with special, outlandish names and fussed about them not being close enough to the real thing. Most others got that the combat system doesn't take into account armour, type of attack, where wounds read the combat rules before arguing that his character's abilities have to make sense to their real world associations.


[Edited at the request of JFH. Imaginary Friend, Circus Host.]

[ 04. May 2014, 07:51: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]
 

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Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :
 
JFH, there is a lot of "you vs. us" vibe in your post. I don't like that one bit... I will withdraw from further discussion of the game mechanics, and since my own character is completed, I will just wait for the start. Just one point though, the "outlandish names" were just me having fun with creating a Filipino warrior, i.e., I was roleplaying there and those were Filipino labels.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
I'm sorry, Ingo, I might have gone a bit trigger-happy there and I know for a fact that I phrased it badly because I asked Imaginary Friend to edit out a line that could potentially have turned things a bit sour. I'm sorry about that, and for creating an "us vs you" feel to that post. I would agree that we could use, after the trial run, a rethink of the way skills are defined or specified, because it has been difficult for several posters. I don't think we'll ever have a game where the GM don't fix players up so as to work better together, however, and I don't think we'll all fully agree on anything as being perfect.

I do think I was right in specifying those areas of disagreement, because my impression is that they are basic, often implicit points (except for the battle rules which have been stated above in the thread), that lead to different assumptions of how things should be done. I was wrong in painting you a villain for what I perceive (using my RL 2 vigilance and .5 wits) to be holding different assumptions on this and working with those assumptions in the discussion about your character.

As for the names of the skills, I'm sorry for using that as an example, it was not quite fair. I do think that it's pretty fair to say though that most if not all of the Skills that have been expressed with an ensuing explanation of what they do (by anyone including myself), have required reworking by the GM, and I think that speaks for something.

Furthermore, my impression was that the combat rules were quite clearly expressed before leading to frustration with the way some people focussed on abilities that didn't seem to work well with those. I realize now that 1) the system may not have been that clear to everyone, and 2) to my character and my view of the game, battle is of lesser importance. I have now taken another step down the Lord's blessed road of realisation that not everyone is the same as me. I apologise.

[ 04. May 2014, 11:13: Message edited by: JFH ]
 

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Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :
 
Let's all just have some fun first with this, shall we? Further geeking out over the RPG mechanics can wait for the post mortem. There's no need for an apology, just for a return to good cheer. I for one am sipping a lambanóg at the local watering hole and waiting for the party to get started.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
If water ain't the base of that drink, I'm in. You buy the rounds, of course.
 

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Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
If water ain't the base of that drink, I'm in. You buy the rounds, of course.

---

It might bring some tears to your eyes... (It's the typical Filipino "moonshine", coconut arrack with 40%-80% alcohol.)
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Now if that ain't the spirits!

Stone Miller feels a little stupider and possibly a little less handsome than his usual grand self, but, by Mrs Miller's knickers (pawned next-village in exchange for three glasses and rum to fill'em), three times as strong as ever before!
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
So your point buy only adds up to 17, you can have another rank of potential in something. Investigation would be off the Vigilance potential. Your fighting skills are highly specific, but that seems appropriate to the character.[QB]

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quote:

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[QB] Your special item is fine as a concept but a little too powerful. I suggest you put your eighteenth point into Vigilance, and then your contraption will give you good vigilance for close work.

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quote:

---

I do think we will have to have a different perk though.I think it will be difficult to manage gameplay wise.

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quote:

---

Also thematically, you might want to consider a cloak rather than coat.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
So your point buy only adds up to 17, you can have another rank of potential in something. Investigation would be off the Vigilance potential. Your fighting skills are highly specific, but that seems appropriate to the character.[QB]

---

I'm happy to broaden the melee combat skill if that's balanced. Can the crossbow skill include trick shots? He's trained himself to hit specific parts of a target (namely the heart). (Along a similar line of not being too specific, can the Interrogation skill also cover techniques such as 'good cop, bad cop'?)

quote:

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[QB] Your special item is fine as a concept but a little too powerful. I suggest you put your eighteenth point into Vigilance, and then your contraption will give you good vigilance for close work.

---

I rather like the idea that Daniel has poor eyesight without the contraption, but OK.

quote:

---

I do think we will have to have a different perk though.I think it will be difficult to manage gameplay wise.

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+1 bonus to Soul to resist supernatural fear, mind control, etc? Alternatively, +1 to sense supernatural activity?

quote:

---

Also thematically, you might want to consider a cloak rather than coat.

---

I think if it's set in something like a late medieval period, then buttoned coats existed, although it would then be usual to wear a cloak over the top as weather protection.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Oops that should be good finesse, I am pming you the sheet, let me know if their are any problems.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
Now if that ain't the spirits!

Stone Miller feels a little stupider and possibly a little less handsome than his usual grand self, but, by Mrs Miller's knickers (pawned next-village in exchange for three glasses and rum to fill'em), three times as strong as ever before!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banner Lady:

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:
Now if that ain't the spirits!

Stone Miller feels a little stupider and possibly a little less handsome than his usual grand self, but, by Mrs Miller's knickers (pawned next-village in exchange for three glasses and rum to fill'em), three times as strong as ever before!

---

Crazy Clawdine wanders by and whispers loudly in their direction "Pssst, boys; if you want a real drink, come by my place...you need to try Clawdines Poteen. Best blessed spiritual experience you'm never had yet...."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Ariston, before you post your character to the meta-game thread, I need you to alter it so Climb is based off Finesse (otherwise you will have three skills running off muscles). Sorry, that was my fault.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Ariston, before you post your character to the meta-game thread, I need you to alter it so Climb is based off Finesse (otherwise you will have three skills running off muscles). Sorry, that was my fault.

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I don't see why that's a problem? It's usual in RPG design these days for climbing to be based off Strength.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
(Now that I come to think about it, I suppose one of the reason I was surprised so many players struggled with the skill / perk thing, was I had assumed people would google for ideas.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Blats JFH over the head ridiculously easily with the magic slate with pictures on.

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• Copies of all the full character sheets
• A summary sheet of all the characters for quick reference
• A summary sheet of pre-generated minor npcs of various pt values
• An internet-sourced list of major plot types
• An internet sourced / generated world map
• An rpg interiors drawing app
• To model countryside I am going to use Carcasonne tiles (less faff than drawing, I can keep it on a tray and photograph it with the ipad when I need to re-start), and I can use the wooden pieces to track the players on the tiles and in interiors
• Bullet point plot list
• Summary sheet of named major NPCs

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
(Now that I come to think about it, I suppose one of the reason I was surprised so many players struggled with the skill / perk thing, was I had assumed people would google for ideas.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
here is the list of the things I have assembled/am assembling to help me:

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
(Now that I come to think about it, I suppose one of the reason I was surprised so many players struggled with the skill / perk thing, was I had assumed people would google for ideas.)

---

I think there's a difference between a system in which there are skills that can be used untrained and a system in which skills are specifically things that can't be used untrained. Lots of systems have diplomacy, or jump, or hide skills. But one doesn't really want to pick one of those in this game because those are the sorts of things that any PC ought to be able to have a go at.

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I see what you mean, I suppose I would ask you to assume that you can do what the majority of people can do in ordinary life and ordinary circumstances. I can clamber up a mountain, or over a sofa, but if I am going to climb a building or a rockface I would have to have trained to do so. Likewise with social skills and combat skills. As in happens, in real life I have training in sword fighting (bronze award foil, yay for least helpful martial art ever) and karate (crap in a fight but I can Kyai with the best of then) but both of these things took months and years to learn.

If you took jump for example, it would mean you could long jump or confidently jump between skyscrapers or something similar. More useful in a batman type setting I would think.

For the purposes of this setting, I am assuming you all read and speak a common language.

Re the prep, I have played desk top rpgs on and off for just over 20 yrs now - so I am quite enjoying myself
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
FYI. This is my working of the character ties that bring the disparate group of people in the party together. Please bear this in mind when we start the trial run. I can't have all eleven of you co-incidentally meet in sequence !

Party ties

Testwe is taking the grand tour to see the world, his father may also be hoping this journey will accomplish some other things.

Teswe is escorted by a small retinue.

Retinue (official)

Jetse & Bayani are the armed escort, they have reluctant respect for each other's abilities if nothing else. Hestor has been included on this trip to smooth out any wrinkles in the prince's path, and of course is always on the look out for new opportunities for himself. He agreed the inclusion of Guriana in the party on the grounds that it is always wise to have a along a person with magical abilities as you never know what you might meet - or what they might do if you say no. Jerthro succeeded in talking himself onto the mission because of his enthusiasm, and because Hestor had thought he would do as general go-for for the higher status members of the retinue. Hestor has found Jerthro less compliant with this last aim than he would have liked.

Retinue (unofficial)

Clawdine seems to have attached herself to Teswe on route, in an inn Hestor remembers, no one saw their first meeting but every so often the prince pays her an elaborate compliment and then looks disappointed. Clawdine followed on after the party left the tavern, in her caravan, and the prince decreed the retinue should not drive her off - Hestor has resigned himself to this; consoled by the fact she has proved herself useful as a dowser when they have to camp.

Stone Miller was picked up at a different tavern by Clawdine, and rides in her caravan when he needs, the official retinue are unimpressed but it is surprisingly difficult to argue the point with the two of them. Brandon, engaged as a local guide by Jetse, hangs out in Clawdine's caravan, or sleeps on the animal pulling it.

The party meet up with Arabella and Daniel during the first day of the journey we are being told about, in rather fraught circumstances.

[ 05. May 2014, 13:39: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by Curious Kitten (# 11953) on :
 
I wonder if backgrounds as they are presented in 13th Age would be better than skills.

With backgrounds you say to the GM "In my previous career I was a scout for the empire therefore this stealth task is easy for me." The GM has to decide if they agree with you. A background is typically a previous career or upbringing but could be an item, a person - like a Princely retinue - or a steed.

You get 8 points as standard and can put 5 max into each which with this rule set could be that if the GM agrees your background relates then 1 point is Hard, 2 points is Difficult, 3 points is OK, 3 points is Easy and 5 points is Ridiculously easy.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Interesting, reference link, I am not familiar with the system - does that happen at the time of character generation or during play ?
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Interesting, reference link, I am not familiar with the system - does that happen at the time of character generation or during play ?

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quote:

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Initiative, AC, PD, MD, Hit Points, Recovery Dice, Feats, and some Talents are level dependent.
Ability Bonus +2 Strength or Charisma (different from racial bonus)
Initiative Dex mod + Level
Armor Class (heavy armor) 16 + middle mod of Con/Dex/Wis + Level
Armor Class (shield and heavy armor) 17 + middle mod of Con/Dex/Wis + Level
Physical Defense 10 + middle mod of Str/Con/Dex + Level
Mental Defense 12 + middle mod of Int/Wis/Cha + Level
Hit Points (8 + Con mod) x Level modifier (see level progression chart)
Recoveries 8
Recovery Dice (1d10 x Level) + Con mod
Backgrounds 8 points, max 5 in any one background
Icon Relationships 3 points
Talents 3 (see level progression chart)
Feats 1 per Level

Read more: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showwiki.php?title=13th-Age-Paladin#ixzz30rM9kykm

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Curious Kitten:
13th Age is very simplified when you compare it to Pathfinder or 3.5 DnD which are the games I normally play.

I wouldn't have suggested trying to adapt it to suit a ship game but thought that backgrounds might be a bit more intuitive than skills and One Unique Thing is a brilliant mechanic because it can't be combat related. It helps the GM know how the player wants the character to develop and make the world unique to the campaign.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
I seem to recall in MERPS you had to roll to hit, roll weapons bonuses and roll targeting, and roll again on a critical hit. But what really annoyed me was having to be nice to Saruman because you don't know he is a traitor yet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
@IngoB - I don't think that backgounds would give you a skill list as such ?

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What I meant is that it would imply what otherwise would have to be written up as a list of skills. If I am a former sailor, then I will do well at sailing a boat, navigating by the stars, holding my liquor, ... but all these skills will now be negotiated "on the fly" between GM and player due to the background. At least that's how I understood this.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Yup, it will need a bit of working out re game balance but it will simplify
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Character Try Out

quote:

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Character Name: Brandon Covey

Brief Physical Description: 12 years old, 4 ft 8 in. tall, stocky and muscular, dark eyes and dark hair in a "bowl cut", Dressed in rawhide. with very big boots.


Potentials:
(Ranked Useless / Weak / OK / Good / Excellent, you have 20 points to buy ranks at 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5 points cost respectively)

• Good Wits
• Weak Finesse
• Weak Charm
• Excellent Soul
• OK Muscles
• OK Vigilance

(Rolls for these will be Ridiculously Easy (2-20) / Easy (5-20) / OK (10-20) / Hard (15-20) / Ridiculously Hard (20) on a D20 as advised by GM)

Skills
(Each skill is tied to a specific potential, to start with, no more than two skills can be associated with any single potential.)

• Discernment (wits)
• Animal Kinship (soul)
• Tracking (vigilance)
• Traditional Medicine(soul?)
• Stealth (wits)
• Light Weapon (muscles)

Starting perk :Quick learner, x2 to wits role up to x1 per week when you have noticed something new and interesting.

Please list equipment you acquire, with any bonuses it may give.

Camping gear.

Steel toes boots

Totem amulet (coyote) (if allowed as a magic item, +1 to wits, when consulted. Perhaps limit use per "day".)Transform (can transform to spirit animal using totem)

Short sword.

Folk medicine kit (first aid type stuff.)

Quote:

---

---

Note I have changed "resist charm" to "Discernment" (perhaps I have the wrong word-- able to recognize attempts at BS, basically. Not a "detect evil" skill, but a basic street skill. I wanted to tie something to "wits.")

Note also that, in light of the "transform" option, I have changed my spirit animal to "coyote" (I have just had more experience playing a coyote.)

{edited per GM request}

[ 06. May 2014, 05:41: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
BTW, Doublethink, I don't know if anyone formally asked you to GM or if we just kind of corporately thrust you in that position, but you sure are stepping to the plate with might and power.

[ 06. May 2014, 05:03: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
My pleasure.

That's all fine. Two things, you have done a 17 pt buy, what would you like to spennd your last point on.

Need to change lower body / kick to something else, we have no way to mdel unarmed combat - everyone can brawl basically.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I just told DT I am going to abuse my Admin powers to do the changes in the existing post, just to save space.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Oh, and you have no weapon - hunting knife ? +1 to combat rolls.
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I have a short sword! Is that a thing? I was picturing a long hunting knife, ish.

[ 06. May 2014, 05:40: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
OK Everyone should now have finalised character sheets. I will open the metagame thread.

Please could everyone post their character sheet onto it for reference.

When they are all up, I will post the story thread with the starting scenes in the OP.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Please can we now close this thread for duration of the trial run, which I hope will be about 7 to 10 days.

[ 06. May 2014, 06:28: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Bump!
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
(sorry Ariston-- I got all excited.)
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
(sorry Ariston-- I got all excited.)

---

Dangit Kelly! I was composing a big, dramatic cliffhanger/pause for station identification post too! How Could You?

Oh, okay, you clicked the button first.

Anyhoo…ideas.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Sorry about the anti-climax . But that was always the risk on a trial run.

This may be a good point to confide that you were never really intended to end up in this situation.

You were going to be kidnapped by bandits then stashed in a cave, be found by arabella and daniel after vampires ate the bandits. Then go to a town where you would try to solve the mystery of who hired the bandits and who was really a vampire.

But then rpgs never go to plot.

But in case you were wondering if your choices effected events, they really, really did.
 

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Posted by IngoB (# 8700) on :
 
Minor technical problem: Refresh. Unless I reload the page, I don't see what's going on.
Major technical problem: Flood control. Rapid communication is impossible even if we try.

Two possibilities:

1. Either move the combat system off-site, like into some chat place.
2. Or radically re-think combat so as to not require multi-rolls and coordination.

[ 09. May 2014, 21:30: Message edited by: IngoB ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
From a gm point of view a number of problems - of which the two biggest are - the size of the party is very hard to track owing to screen size and tabbing between screens.

And flood control is right pain for rapid action, or rapid questions.

Letting players have multiple posts per day exacerbates this somewhat.
 

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Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :
 
So, the problems we ran into:

—Flood control is a real problem. With seven characters, even if they're all paying attention, it's going to take 15 minutes minimum to get anything done…and that's assuming no jumping the gun and making the FC timer reset.

—Trying to keep things going in more-or-less real time is also a problem. It might work better if we had the cafe working, but, when I tried to get it running, it really didn't want to.

—Most importantly, perhaps, raids like this require everyone to be available at a certain time, which rules out everyone who's working/sleeping/doing other things then. This one is least likely to be avoidable, especially if we want to keep things in real-ish time, but there it is.

Perhaps having the cafe (or cafe analogue) back up and running might solve some of these difficulties, but I don't know how that would be done, really.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
[cross-posted with everyone since Kelly getting excited.]

Huh. That was interesting. Completely unexpected by this novice, but interesting.

I'm wondering why combat is different from normal role-play and dice rolling for skills use. Is it because lots of things have to happen in a small time period, and also because having the GM play enemy characters is a required part of it?

I'm wondering if a double-roll system could work, where you (the player) rolls for the difficulty of the obstacle you'll face, and roll for whether you'll succeed, and then role-play the results. You could also have a dice-roll for the type of the obstacle you'll face, or have moves by the enemy be a series of obstacles that you roll for, or something. This could be tweaked to make some kind of group effort, or group of enemies, or something.

Brainstorming about things I know nothing about, this is part of FictA's creative skill.

[ 09. May 2014, 21:32: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I am thinking option 2 is the way to go - as the non-combat bit seems to work well largely.

Also, having to be in synch for combat means some players are going to get few times when both they and the gm are up
 

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Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariston:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
(sorry Ariston-- I got all excited.)

---

Dangit Kelly! I was composing a big, dramatic cliffhanger/pause for station identification post too! How Could You?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Sorry about the anti-climax . But that was always the risk on a trial run.

---

I'm often interested in how systems work, so now that I'm starting to get my feet under me for some of the ideas about RPG, I'm enjoying this immensely, stoppage in combat and all. Anyway, even if we can't do combat, Arabella has all sorts of plots up her sleeve, perfectly calculated to throw a GM into fits .

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
This may be a good point to confide that you were never really intended to end up in this situation.

You were going to be kidnapped by bandits then stashed in a cave, be found by arabella and daniel after vampires ate the bandits. Then go to a town where you would try to solve the mystery of who hired the bandits and who was really a vampire.

But then rpgs never go to plot.

But in case you were wondering if your choices effected events, they really, really did.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Would this be in realtime or asynchonous ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
So, trying to get my head round this:

GM: thing attacks, here are thresholds for your three part roll
Player: I roll - win, lose or spawn
Player: Spawned, easier - same - harder
Player: win, lose or spawn x3 - eek spawned again. Oi, you two help me out guys
Etc

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariston:
I don't think a critical un-hit can ever be removed, even by buffs. It's a floor level of a 5 % chance of total failure, just as even a negative buff will never remove the possibility of strangling the vampire with the dandruff in a ridiculously hard challenge.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
From the meta thread, in response to me trying to work out what I thought I understood about die-rolls and weapons +1's:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ariston:
I don't think a critical un-hit can ever be removed, even by buffs. It's a floor level of a 5 % chance of total failure, just as even a negative buff will never remove the possibility of strangling the vampire with the dandruff in a ridiculously hard challenge.

---

I don't understand a word of this. Or rather, I think I understand individual words (assuming that "buff" = "point value for a weapon", but I'm only guessing). But together they make no sense to me. A weapon is +1 to your roll, except when it isn't? Huh?

DT indicated that Ariston was correct, and that the complete combat rules are in the Meta OP. But weapons +1's aren't mentioned there, at least not that I can find. And what I do find there seems to be as consistent with my point of view (e.g. having a weapon means you can never fail a ***ridiculously easy*** task, because your roll+1 will always be at least 2) as it does Ariston's and DT's.

I'll accept that Ariston and DT are correct, but I don't see it explained anywhere. And if what is explained in the Meta OP explains this, then I have to say I don't understand a word of the Meta OP.

---

I'm sorry for communicating poorly. Buff means something (curse, blessing, magic) that impacts the strength or effect of else (weapon, armour et c), and can be positive or negative.

However, the point of the 1 and 20 result rolls is for there to be extreme points, where everything just goes right or everything just goes wrong. No matter how strong your weapons are, if you roll a 1 things will still always go horribly wrong and there's just no way to improve your strength out of that possibility. Likewise, even if you're extremely outmatched and then have a curse placed on you, there's still the possibility, as IngoB previously expressed in this thread, that the dandruff you use as a weapon somehow ends up choking the dragon - thus if you roll a 20 (a "critical hit"*), you're bound no matter what to have a success of some sort.

*Thus the saying, "It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye - then it's a critical hit."


Edited to throw in my deep agreement with Kelly's first post on this page about Ingo's participation. Great!

[ 10. May 2014, 05:18: Message edited by: JFH ]
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Thanks for the explanation. I don't see how this is explained in the Meta OP.

OK, a buff can't pull you off of a 20 or a 1. Can a buff pull you onto a 20 or a 1?
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
I think the improvement lies rather in what you have to roll in order to pass, rather than adding onto your roll. Thus, it cannot give you the lasting benefits of a 20, but if you're in a ridiculously hard challenge, it changes the necessary roll to include both 19 and 20 instead of solely 20, if it's a +1 boost. The extreme effects of 1 and 20 remain as extreme, but if your dandruff is, say, polonium-coated, a very skilful attack (a roll 19) might still do the job without the luck of choking the dragon with it.

Key point is that criticals remain as uncommon as always, but non-criticals become more, or less, likely.
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Sorry about the meta OP, it is always hard to work out what youare taking for granted when you know a genre well.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
[cross-posted: replying to Ariston]

What you've described is what I would call: yes, a buff can pull you onto 20 or 1.

But maybe adding the buff value to the dice roll is the wrong way to think about it.

If you have a buff of +1, and you roll a 14, does that then give you the same outcome as if you had rolled 15 and didn't have the buff?

(If I had had two beers and were someone casually connected to this who's just out for a night of fun, instead of being stone-cold sober and a mathematician by training and in an obsessive mood on this, I don't think I'd have a chance of understanding this, if it's any more complicated than "add this number to your dice roll.")

[ 10. May 2014, 06:46: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Sorry about the meta OP, it is always hard to work out what youare taking for granted when you know a genre well.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
[cross-posted: replying to Ariston]

What you've described is what I would call: yes, a buff can pull you onto 20 or 1.

But maybe adding the buff value to the dice roll is the wrong way to think about it.

If you have a buff of +1, and you roll a 14, does that then give you the same outcome as if you had rolled 15 and didn't have the buff?

(If I had had two beers and were someone casually connected to this who's just out for a night of fun, instead of being stone-cold sober and a mathematician by training and in an obsessive mood on this, I don't think I'd have a chance of understanding this, if it's any more complicated than "add this number to your dice roll.")

---

Yes, it is the same effect as rolling a 15.

But in most systems, for a critical hit you would need to roll a " natural" 20 (i.e. a 20 on the dice rather than say, a 19 with a +1 added to it.)
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
OK, so that sounds like the buff can neither pull you onto nor off of 1 or 20.

Or are y'all just playing Red Dog Rover with me?
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Yes thats right.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Yes about the buff, or yes about Red Dog Rover?
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
About the buff (what is red dog rover ?)

[ 10. May 2014, 07:11: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by Eliab (# 9153) on :
 
Comments on IngoB's system:

Strengths: doesn't require coordination in timing or excessive GM moderation; will generate lots of narrative; the tag system will lead to interaction; simple to operate.

Weaknesses: doesn't (as written) allow for good/bad in-game tactics and choices; does reward meta-game tactics; can incentivise people to delay/not post; allows players to manipulate 'the universe' into taking PvP actions.

By which I mean: Bayani, Gunriana and Ik are fighting giant weasels. Ik has found and drunk a potion of Invulnerability, which the GM rules will give him three extra 'lives' in this combat. Bayani has an enchanted Bolas of Weasel Entanglement, which allows him to take out weasels on an even 'draw' roll. Gunriana has an IC reason for wanting Bayani to be knocked out for a while, because she needs Outlander's blood for a potion. What happens: Bayani sends all his 'spare' weasels to Ik - he knows Ik isn't likely to be taken down, so can hold lots of enemies in play. Ik concurs - he wants all the enemy swarming in vain around him, while Bayani kills them one by one. He keeps some of his spawned weasels, sending them to Bayani only when Bayani is free to take on an additional foe. Gunriana sends all hers to Bayani. As soon as Gunriana is unengaged, it makes sense for her to sit on her hands - either of the others is better at taking die rolls than her. In fact, that applies even when she has active foes: the fewer die rolls she makes the better because it is always better for the party to have the players with bonuses roll. So she'll roll as infrequently as possible, just enough to avoid being 'timed out'.

Problems with that: A player who would like to get involved has a strong meta-game disincentive to do so. A character who in reality would be a weak target, and giving out 'prey' vibes to alert weasels, in game gets an easy ride through the fight. Bayani's player has a dilemma: Gunriana's player is taking blatantly hostile actions against Bayani, but Gunriana as a character isn't doing anything but shouting helpful warnings before each fresh attack. If Bayani retaliates against Gunriana IC, that's bad role-play, because Bayani the character has no reason to take offence against her just because the weasels found him more tasty. If he doesn't, Gunriana's player can keep throwing a disproportionate number of enemies at him with impunity, which the player may find vexing.

The maths also need tweaking. On the figures above, class 2 creatures and above are fatally nasty, because they spawn as fast as they die: suppose equal 20 characters are fighting 12 class 2 weasels. We expect after 20 rolls (doesn't matter whose rolls) that 3 characters will be on the floor hoping for a healer, with all 12 weasels on their way to weasel-heaven. But on average 15 weasels more will spawn while we get there (5 times 1, plus 5 times 2). Likely, 11 of those new enemies are class 2 or worse. The players were 20 to 12xC2 at the start. They're now 17 to 11xC2/C3, discounting the 4xC1. And it gets worse from there - especially as the 4 class 3s weasel-heroes, are highly likely to spawn a very scary class 4 Avatar-of-Weaselry before they get taken out.

Tweaking it means putting a time-tick into the formula, so that the fight spawns rapidly at the start to involve all players, sustains itself for a while until everyone has had something to do, then phases out as the monsters (or PCs) gradually fall. It would be workable, but would need to be less simple in execution in order to work.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Autenrieth, I think the fact that you continuously refer to me as Ariston might imply that the pitcher has been raised more than twice in your case, math pro or not.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
About the buff (what is red dog rover ?)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
Autenrieth, I think the fact that you continuously refer to me as Ariston might imply that the pitcher has been raised more than twice in your case, math pro or not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
Autenrieth, I think the fact that you continuously refer to me as Ariston might imply that the pitcher has been raised more than twice in your case, math pro or not.

---

Aack! I plead a case of Complete And Massive Confusion.

I'm turning in my math degree for a refund. Besides being unable to read people's names, I can't make head nor tail of Eliab's sneaky strategy analysis, even though normally I love studying those kinds of contradictions in voting systems. (I completely trust that it's true, but it would take me approximately 9,062,478.395 times longer to even come close to thinking it up than the few wee hours that Eliab has had to work it out. Eliab, did you even sleep last night? Cause if you also slept, after your 12-hour mediation got you home late at night, then you worked this out somewhere between in a trice and in a twinkling.)

I spent all of Friday thinking it was Thursday.

---

It's nice to finally meet you in real life, Arabella.

ETA: Or, well, real and real, but you know, non-RPG life.

[ 10. May 2014, 07:43: Message edited by: JFH ]
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Ditto. And I was just about to call you Eliab, so I'm still confused. Anyone else you'd like to be called tonight?

I read the Petals Around The Rose writeup you linked to, and I am giving up right now. I am never in a million trillion years going to solve it.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I am trying to work out how to merge plan, narrate, crisis with win, lose, spawn whilst reducing the number load, synching with the current non-combat system, removing the meta pvp incentive and adding the possibility of tactical choice.

If I believe hard enough, I am sure the is can be done ...
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Autenrieth, you can call me whatever you want, but I'll call you chicken if you don't give it a try. We should start that as a separate game thread here in Circus.

[ 10. May 2014, 07:53: Message edited by: JFH ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Ditto. And I was just about to call you Eliab, so I'm still confused. Anyone else you'd like to be called tonight?

I read the Petals Around The Rose writeup you linked to, and I am giving up right now. I am never in a million trillion years going to solve it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
What is combat? And: do we have to have it? What function does it serve? Can we meet that function some other way?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Ditto. And I was just about to call you Eliab, so I'm still confused. Anyone else you'd like to be called tonight?

I read the Petals Around The Rose writeup you linked to, and I am giving up right now. I am never in a million trillion years going to solve it.

---

I couldn't so I cheated and looked it up on wiki, this confirmed that a) I would never have solved it and b) I would have died of frustration.

---

• Players approach combat opportunity
• GM post special story context post, requests players plan
• Players plan, including tactical choices
• Plan stage ends or reaches deadline
• GM post meta context post
• Players enter win, lose, spawn combat stage to resolution or deadline, whichever occurs first
• GM post meta context post entering crisis stage
• Combat ends or second win / lose / spawn stage with deadline
• GM Story context post ending combat phase

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
Autenrieth, you can call me whatever you want, but I'll call you chicken if you don't give it a try. We should start that as a separate game thread here in Circus.

---

You are a fiend. A complete horrible and dreadful fiend. How can I resist?

Have mercy: I can't start it right away; I'm up to my eyeballs in things I'm needing to figure out for the next two weeks. After that I can think about it.

Here, have one back: what comes next:

111111111111111, 1111, 120, 33, 30, 23, 21, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, ...
 

---

Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
DT, regarding the combat system:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
What is combat? And: do we have to have it? What function does it serve? Can we meet that function some other way?

---

I still think these are good questions. You might be trying to pave cowpaths with what you're currently trying to work out.

---

• Ridiculously Easy, win = >1, lose = 1
• Easy, win = >5, lose = < 3, spawn = 3-5
• OK, win = >10, lose = < 5, spawn = 6-10
• Hard, win = >15, lose = < 5, spawn = 6-15
• Ridiculously Hard, same as hard, but spawn can not be sent to other players.

quote:

---

Fight begins:

• 1st: Bayani: your combat is ***easy***
• 2nd: Ik: your combat is ***hard***
• 3rd: Jetse: your combat is ***OK***
• 4th: Guriania: you have planned to be a sitting duck, so your combat is ***ridiculously hard***

Your party is fighting shadow demons, ghasts and the occasional giant rat.

You have until 21:00 hrs GMT to defeat them.

---

• Win: Enemy is "left for dead"
• Lose: Be "left for dead" by the enemy & it seeks new target
• Spawn: "Combat continues & more enemies join the fight"

• Ridiculously Easy, win = >1, lose = 1
• Easy, win = >5, lose = < 3, spawn = 3-5
• OK, win = >10, lose = < 5, spawn = 6-10
• Hard, win = >15, lose = < 5, spawn = 6-15
• Ridiculously Hard, threshholds are the same as hard, but spawned fights can not be sent to other players.

• One rank easier (1-5)
• Same difficulty rank (6-15)
• One rank harder (16-19)

• One rank harder (1-5)
• Same difficulty rank (6-15)
• One rank easier (16-20)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
What is combat? And: do we have to have it? What function does it serve? Can we meet that function some other way?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
This ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dafyd:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
What is combat? And: do we have to have it? What function does it serve? Can we meet that function some other way?

---

Combat is when one lot of people use physical force to interfere with another lot of people's plans and the other lot resist.

Combat lends itself to making lots of rolls and lots of decisions. Instead of just rolling to see whether you succeed or fail, you can roll to see whether you hurt the opponent or whether you miss. And that means the player gets to make decisions in between rolls in response to a changing situation. (Do you kill the orc you've just hurt, or do you break off and attack the orc that's winning against your friend?) Because it involves making lots of small decisions in response to a changing situation, it's generally quite fun. (This quite apart from any appeal to the part of the brain that likes mindless action films.) As a result, combat takes up a large space in a lot of tabletop roleplaying experience.

Unfortunately to my mind those reasons are exactly why combat is going to be hard to model in an RPG set up like this.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
It seems to me you are just ditching the ability for the characters to direct spawn away from themselves, is that right ?

Your point 3) would be the crisis resolution stage. I do see why you would want take it in this direction - because the interactions for sending spawn and going to assist others could get clunky.

(I guess you could have a standing option to respond to the GM meta-combat post by running screaming in the opposite direction.)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
1 at easy level two at ok level three at hard level..

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Any comments on the merged combat system ?

---

Not sure. Most of the complexity comes from the respawn mechanism.
Respawning seems to me more redolent of computer game play than of pen and paper game play. It feels like adding an extra layer of unpredictability for the sake of it. (And I'm not sure that it would always be plausible - there must be at least some situations in which you'd know exactly how many enemies there are).
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Really, it is a way of actioning pushback from the environment - on desktop, your monster would be casting spells, dodging about etc.

Though to be fair, respawn makes more sense in IngoB's version when you get to use it tactically.
 

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Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :
 
Right, I think spawning can be a very versatile mechanic, but it wouldn't always be narrated as such in the story thread. In the example we were trying to play: it would work pretty literally for the shades, I think, but after they were defeated the vampire would come out. There's only one of him, so someone would offer to try to take him. Three possibilities:

1) PC wins. Vampire dead. All do happy dance.

2) PC loses. They're out of action, another PC must attempt (or they all attempt to flee).

3) Spawning.
a) PC who made the attack takes on the spawn too. He might exclaim something to the rest of the group like, "this vampire is going to be harder to beat than I thought. I'm going to have to hit him at least two more times to knock him out." You could even provide a good narrative reason why. "I'm going to have to first knock the amulet out of his hand, and then stake him. He could kill me while I attempt either of these things."

b) PC who made the attack gives the spawn to someone else. Then, he might say something like, "Hey, friend, you try jumping him from behind while I go for his heart."

This each spawn isn't narrativized as a new monster, but another layer of defense or line of attack that must be completed to defeat the monster.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Neat
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I think we'll need to agree a system by tomorrow night, or we will lose our momentum. So I would encourage people to post any more ideas over the next 24hrs.
 

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Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :
 
That sounds good.
I'd wondered about only left for dead recovering in that case and ending up with multi-dimesnsional fudges (independent toughness and fecundity).

But that suggestion means the same fundamental mechanic works for wasps, mobs and 'bosses' which probably naturally allows links to party skills to emerge.
(e.g. going for the heart is harder with a club)

[ 10. May 2014, 21:26: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I don't understand ?
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
Certainly any workable system is better than an unworkable system.
 

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Posted by Jay-Emm (# 11411) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
I don't understand ?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doublethink:
Setting up combat last night took about 1 hour on and off, then then the combat took about an hour till we aborted.

I would be against a system that takes any longer. I have quite a lot of time on my hands, and an ipad, so I have been spending about 30 min in the morning resolving things and a couple of hours intermittently at night in front of the tv sometimes longer.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
I think this might be a petals around the roses-case where smarter people taking longer to figure it out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
I think this might be a petals around the roses-case where smarter people taking longer to figure it out.

---

I guessed the solution on looking at the first roll for about thirty seconds, and thought "that's an 'eight'" on seeing the second. Which it was, and which confirmed that I was right.

I suspect that people who look at the problem and think 'maths' won't get it*, and those who look at it and think 'symbols' will get the solution in seconds, because there's only one that fits. I think I was fortunate in that having been playing Gunriana, my mind was defaulting to 'symbols' at the time.

(*although asking what there could possibly be on a throw of an odd-numbered set of dice that is always zero or even is a mathematical type of question which won't get the solution, but will instantly eliminate a huge number of dead ends. For example, you won't even bother to count up all the pips on all the dice once you've asked that question, because its obviously not the solution, as the answer could be odd)

---

I think it's a case of information, and as you say, the information that the numbers are always zero or even is useful in eliminating dead ends, but so is the information in the name of the game and that the name of the game is significant. As for what you look at or look for, I think that's personal, but in many problems that's the key, of course. Somehow this one comes more counter-intuitive to people like Bill Gates though, it seems.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
[cross-post]

The answer could be adding up all the pips and performing some mathematical operation on it that always results in an even number.

What rules out adding up all the pips and doing math on the result is not the even answers, but the speed with which the answers are given.

Not that that helps me have the slightest clue what the solution is.

[ 11. May 2014, 00:44: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

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Posted by Dafyd (# 5549) on :
 
I went away, thinking about the first two cases. I could remember that the first roll had a one, and a four, and two sixes, and the answer was two; and that the second had three fives, and that the answer was eight. Based partly on Eliab's hints I decided what I thought the answer should be aesthetically, but it didn't fit the facts as I remembered them.
So I was quite pleased to come back and discover that I'd misremembered the second roll.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Ok, I'm certainly not going to print out this exasperating game on a color printer, cut it up and tape it together so I can see just the rolls and the answers, and put it on my desk where I can stare at it throughout the day. Oh no, not me.

And I'm certainly not going to print out a second set and leave the cut-up strips of dice and answers un-taped-together so that at will I can rearrange them in different relations and see if that reveals anything. Nope, I would never do anything like that.

Arabella sighs. FictA is going to be completely preoccupied for the next decade, and no source of amusing stories at all.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
That was cross-posted.

Dafyd: Aesthetically?! I'm doomed, that doesn't even begin to make sense to me as a clue. Eliab's "symbolically" I could imagine, but... aesthetically?

Doomed, doomed, doomed.

FictA stamps off to surreptitiously pick up her color printouts, hoping Dafyd and Eliab won't spot her and point and laugh.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
I hear a bet coming up on the number of days before AR cracks it. No, Eliab, you can't have infinity.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
That must be because JFH already has infinity claimed.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I know how to solve our vampire problem.

Gunriana and Daniel, with Stone Miller as assistant, are our designated champions. They enter the crypt with a board, a cup and five dice. They start playing Petals Around The Rose. The vampire, curious, will come over to watch. The vampire will be completely sucked in (oops, no pun intended). Thinking s/he is a very clever vampire, having lived (or is it un-lived?) for so many centuries, the vampire will think s/he will solve it quickly.

Wait a few short minutes.

Vampire fails to have any idea. Gunriana, Daniel, and Stone Miller keep on throwing dice and nonchalantly tossing out answers. Vampire's head explodes. Vampire problem solved.

[ 11. May 2014, 01:41: Message edited by: Autenrieth Road ]
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
If it's any consolation, I've drawn blanks on your problem as well, so far. I've got the figures remembered in my head. I don't think it's a simple mathematical problem, because the progression
"-huuge number" "-about 1000" "-about 90" -3 -7 -2 -4 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1
does not really look like your average Fibonacci series - rather I think there's something to the massive number of ones, that the entire series holds 15 numbers as well as the first number, and graphical related to the many 1s, 2s and 3s in the first couple of numbers. But as I said, I'm drawing blanks.

But then again, I'm about half your age and living experience and haven't done any maths beyond high school, which was 8 years ago. And your problem isn't quite so attention-seeking as Petals around the Rose. How's the aesthetics coming along?

Also, nobody can have infinity. We can only have zero or even numbers.
 

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Posted by Leorning Cniht (# 17564) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eliab:

I suspect that people who look at the problem and think 'maths' won't get it*,

---

Yup. I looked at the problem, thought maths, and was confused. Then I stepped back, looked again, saw the answer.
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
I got it.

If the six in roll #2 were a five, the answer would be 12.
 

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Posted by JFH (# 14794) on :
 
Indeed so, Young Potentate. Well done! Could you now go on to explain the new combat system for me in a couple of short sentences or so, I'm not sure I get it entirely...
 

---

Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Have we decided on a new combat system yet?
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
I agree with Eliab tthat single roll resolution for major encounters is unsatisfying, and that allowing significant plan time is also important. (But I think a real time week is too long.)

I would query the distinction between what you decide to do, and what you roll. We didn't decide to go with a diceless system, which was an option, and in a dice based system - to a certain extent - what you roll *is* what you do. And the fact that it contains the posiibility of failure is part of the game experience.

It is also not always the case that resolution of a story arc would occur via combat.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Thinking about a more structured resolution for a specific enemy, it might be possible to adapt the idea behind D&D skill challenges.

Here is an extract from the angry dm blog:

quote:

---

In theory, a skill challenge works like this: First, the DM presents a situation. A player then describes the action their character attempts to resolve the situation. The DM assigns a skill to that action and asks for a roll. The DM then describes the outcome based on the roll. This repeats until the players have acheived a fixed number of successes or failures, at which point the story moves forward based on the result. In practice, skill challenges work more like this: the DM presents a situation. A player then scans down their skill list for the highest modifier they can find. The player tells the DM they “use” the skill. The DM dubiously questions exactly how a working knowledge of the fundemental laws of magic actually applies to the character being trapped under a beam in a burning building. The player sighs, thinks for a bit, and tries to use Acrobatics instead because it has the next highest modifier. This time, he describes the action of “acrobatically” trying to get out from under the beam. The DM accepts this because its the best he’s going to get. Exaggeration? A bit. Unkind? Certainly. But, that’s what happens when you look to a guy named The Angry DM for advice. And honestly, the thing that bothers me is not the blatant attempt to shoehorn a skill into a situation into which it doesn’t really fit. What bothers me is that moment of: “pause, look down the character sheet at the options, and try to game the system.” - See more at: http://angrydm.com/2010/05/put-away-your-skill-list/#sthash.Sv9NgHT1.dpuf

---

quote:

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Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Having the DM/GM be more active in combat. So you have a set order to taking a turn probably taken from alphabetical order of Ship names and your finesse skill and where in that order the monsters are. That would be posted on the meta thread along with how hard to hit the monsters are. The players take their actions doing damage or not without the DM needing to get involved except for critical fails and successes. When the monsters' turn arrives the DM directs them to attack or flee not needing to post anything on the meta-thread. If players need to plan they either do so in character or they hammer it out on the meta-thread.

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• Reload and flood control - Typical "real time" reactivity is basically impossible. I had four tabs open (story, meta, online dice, meta on character sheets) and was reloading / acting on them. This was not fun. To keep this going, everybody else in the fight has to do the same and stay reactive, possibly for hours. This is not likely. Finally, even I was running into flood control because I was working both story and meta. For the GM to deal with all that is going on is not possible. I think we can basically throw out anything that requires quick reactivity.
• Asynchrony and dead time - We gather a reasonable size troop this time, because many players were excited to try this. Our current attempt was as good as it will get. And that wasn't very good at all, with only part of players available and the number of active players reducing in combat ("Can you play my character for me?"). The truth is that our expectation for any next player move should be "some time during the next day or two". This pretty much kills dead any regular centrally managed combat sequence, in my opinion. Unless we want to play it out over months...

• Emergent story - Perhaps this wasn't intended, but de facto I think the players have taken a few GM 'seeds' for a story and just have invented their own story out of it. There was no conventional "now you come to this room looking like this, what do you do?" for the most part. I think this points to a GM role where the GM pretty much jumps in whenever things start to slow and people seem to run out of ideas what to do next. Then post just a short new 'seed' and see what the heck they make out of that.
• Ego and tag posts - By necessity, the players were largely posting about themselves. Even dialogues are mostly ego-centered, simply because nobody knows when and how the other responds. So one has to sort of pre-say all one wishes to do and say, and then hope that the other will fill in the blanks on his or her side. Eventually. On the other hand, one can "pull in" the other precisely by making them the addressee of one's actions or words. This is a bit like the "you are it" game of tag, except that one can possibly multi-tag several people. I am "it", so I talk about me for a while (ego), but then I address other people in the hope to elicit a reaction (tag), attempting to make them "it".

• Emergent combat - Based on the occasional 'seeds' from the GM to steer them, mostly it should be players inventing the combat. It should not be a centrally managed story with a pre-determined set outcome. It should be a collective invention, with the GM stepping in if things slow down (or to resolve contradictions). The GM can of course influence the overall course with the 'seeds' (for example, the description of the crypt with the coffin was such a seed, and sets a theme), but should not have to micromanage the story (the players should be inventing what happens next).
• Ego and tag posts - Again we never know when to expect a reaction from anyone. We can only be sure about our own contribution, in this case to the combat. But we can decide to involve others. So decentralised combat moves should have the "ego and tag" form: say what I do, and say who else in my opinion should do something. Whether the second part happens is up to them.

• Enemies - We are beating up baddies. We are not cooking, or making music, or anything like that. It has a specific theme, and the theme is that some beings are trying to harm us, and we are trying to harm them.
• Adversity - In the regular narrative, I can only fail "socially" or perhaps "accidentally". Other people do not like what I do, or the environment makes me trip. Here however it is all about either coming out on top, or going under (or running away). There should be a feeling of direct confrontation and serious risk, a push-back from the environment that is not diffuse (as say a desert is "challenging") but targeted (as a sword strike aimed at my head is "challenging").

• 3-6, knocks the weapon from your hand, you must attempt your next attack without it
• 6-8, swirls his cloak about him giving extra protection -2 to your next attack roll
• 8-12, hypnotises you, any perks you are using don't work and -3 to your attack roll
• 12-15, licks your blood from his hand infusing him with vigour and increasing the difficulty of the fight by a rank

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Originally posted by IngoB:
First, on the number of players: I have posted an idea for this earlier, and I think it remains a valid and fun solution - communal players.

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Second, I feel the best part about my recent idea has not been appreciated. Namely, that players have direct control over the attacking enemies. I think that is really exciting. It offers a second level of roleplay, where we can use our imagination to create horrible enemies (or for that matter, not so horrible ones, perhaps cowardly ones! it's up to us). And it means we can have tactical enemy team play just as we have tactical team play on the side of the regular characters.

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Third, to deal with "response lag", how about we make "rounds" made up of a number of dice rolls? Let's say seven dice rolls. So one attack round would not be a single action. Rather it would be up to seven actions strung together by the combat mechanics.

*** snip ***

throw 1: 7 vs. 14, B wins, A -7 HP. Now A 23 HP, B 20 HP.
throw 2: 12 vs. 6, A wins, B -6 HP. Now A 23 HP, B 14 HP.
throw 3: 3 vs. 7, B wins, A -4 HP. Now A 19 HP, B 14 HP.
throw 4: 18 vs. 19, B wins, A -1 HP. Now A 18 HP, B 14 HP.
throw 5: 10 vs. 11, B wins, A -1 HP. Now A 17 HP, B 14 HP.
throw 6: 10 vs. 9, A wins, B -1 HP. Now A 17 HP, B 13 HP.
throw 7: 12 vs. 7, A wins, B -5 HP. Now A 17 HP, B 8 HP.

*** snip to story post example ***

(1) Bayani attempts an overhead slash, but the goblin ducks under it and delivers a strike combo with his dagger to Bayani's ribcage; blood starts to stain Bayani's clothes. (2) Staggering back, Bayani manages to slash at the goblin's arm, opening a big flesh wound. The goblin grunts in pain. (3) The goblin advances with a strike, and Bayani gets nicked at the ear. (4: note high throws, low outcome) The goblin fakes to the right and the does an acrobatic flip to the left while striking at Bayani's face. Bayani barely manages to escape by doing an almost full split to duck out of the move. (5) Still in the defensive, Bayani barely manages to block the next swing of the goblin. (6) A strong kick to the midsection sends the goblin flying back. (7) Bayani advances with a stab that catches the goblin's shoulder.

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Originally posted by Autenrieth Road:
Does every character have to engage in combat at some point?

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• Mark 0 is the combat system we aborted
• Mark 1 is IngoB's original win/lose/spawn/tag system
• Mark 2 is Eliab's plan/narrate/crisis system
• Mark 3 is Harts win/lose/spawn no tag adaptation of Mark 1
• Mark 4 is DT's combi of Mark 2 + Mark 3
• Mark 5 is AR's skill challenge system
• Mark 6 is IngoB's partial workthru with player controlled monsters

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Player A meta:
I roll combat 3 - lose, my enemy goes to player b
Player A story:
The giant rat leaps at Alf, shaking him viscously by the throat and ***leaving him for dead*** before heading for Bill

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Player B meta:
Rat 1
I roll combat 9 - still fighting
I roll spawn quantity 19 - spawn two fights
I roll spawn level 19 - both fights are hard, I keep one and send one to Charlie
Rat 2
I roll combat 8 - still fighting
I roll spawn quantity 5 - none
(Spawned Rat 3)
I roll combat 5 - I lose
All 3 rats to Charlie
Player B story
Bill, already fighting one rat dives sideways to avoid its snapping jaws, he sees Alf down and bloody, the victorious rat now scuttling towards Bill, distracted he does not see a third one of the vermin approaching until too late - agony then blackness ...

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Player C Meta
Rat 0
I roll combat 18 - win
Rat 1
I roll combat 20 - ridiculous win (pls note GM)
Rat 2
I roll combat 4 - lose
Player C Story
Charlie fights valiantly, he strikes off the head of the first rat to reach him with a single blow, skewers the second - but overwhelmed is hidden beneath a pile of squirming vermin.

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Player A meta:
I roll combat 3 - lose, my enemy goes to player b
Player A story:
The giant rat leaps at Alf, shaking him viscously by the throat and ***leaving him for dead***

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Player B meta:
Rat 1
I roll combat 9 - still fighting
I therefore spawn x2 OK fights
Rat 2 (previously Alf's)
I roll combat 19 - win
Spawned Rat 3
I roll combat 19 - win
Spawned Rat 4
I roll combat 8 - still fighting
I therefore spawn x2 OK fights
Spawned Rat 5
I roll combat 5 - lose
Spawn Rat 6 - lose
Rats 1, 4, 5 & 6 go to Charlie.
Player B story
Bill fights valiantly killing two of the creatures but is overwhelmed by the swarm of vermin. Bill is *** left for dead*** as the malevolent animals head for Charlie..

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Player C Meta
Rat 1
I roll combat 5 - lose
Rat Alf's 4 remaining rats + my rat have survived.
Player C Story
Charlie fights on desparately, but is overwhelmed by the pack.

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• Getting an enemy assigned does only require one combat roll (3 times d20) of a player. The player can do more combat rolls to "fight it out" further, but doesn't have to. It's a choice. However, the player remains locked in combat with that enemy until he defeats the enemy or manages to flee, so the player cannot simply roleplay something else.
• Free players can engage the enemies other players are fighting with. Thus teaming up on an enemy is allowed and encouraged.
• Enemies do not get "automatically assigned" (by whom?). Either the GM, or the player spawning them, has to explicitly send them to a player. If enemies finish a player, they remain "idle" until re-assigned by the GM to attack some player, or until some player attacks them. Players can engage individual "idle" enemies, they do not have to attack all of them together.
• Players can try to escape combat, by throwing in the "keep fighting" or "win" range. If they have multiple enemies, they have to, and can, escape them individually. Enemies that the player has escaped go "idle" until re-assigned by the GM. Note that this means that in fighting two enemies I can try to escape enemy 1, but attack enemy 2. I do not have to retreat from all my enemies, but can try to reduce the number of enemies I'm fighting. Failing to escape means going down.

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Originally posted by IngoB:
[QB] ...I note that we started our with one rat vs. three players.

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Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
I think we actually started with 3 rats ('one each').

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Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
I'm not sure the tactics given made a large difference as given.

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Originally posted by Eliab:
I'm going to suggest that the GM sets up visible enemies, and rules for assigning them in the initial post.

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Originally posted by Eliab:
This is, I think, pretty much consistent with IngoB's ideas, save that unpredictable (and potentially boundless) spawning of enemies does not happen unless specifically included as a feature appropriate to a particular fight.

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Originally posted by IngoB:
Resilience would also be a way to differentiate an obvious "tank" like Jetse from a softer target like Brandon. Jetse might have five resilience, Brandon only two. Or some such...

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Yes, it should definitely be capped - but too small and the timezone thing will make it rather wierd - I'd say 6-8 is about right. But, I think even with a party that size we still need asynchronous combat.

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• Plan stage inc:
• - skill challenge
• - support choices
• - tactical choices
• Narrate stage inc:
• - some kind of auto combat
• - runaway option
• Crisis / Resolution
• - GM clear-up
• - possible boss baddie

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Well for one thing it would be a good way to have action happen in the narration without having to pull it to the meta thread... Overall it seems like a nice, simple to understand system.

For the record, I want to say I highly favor communal players-- with the understanding that pre-designated people are involved in each character's "commune" and that any extra action needed to move that character along is handled by the GM. We'd also have to work out a graceful system for passing the torch-- if someone just logs on and starts playing a PC when someone is already present, things could get chaotic. So-- we'd check the meta thread first to see who's on, then call out our presence/ desire to take over?

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• Yes, and... The "and" indicates some kind of bonus.
• Yes. The answer is just yes.
• Yes, but... The "but" indicates some kind of penalty.
• No, but... The "but" indicates that it's not a total loss.
• No. The answer is just no.
• No, and... The "and" indicates it is even worse.

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Unless you have the consent of the other player, do not control their characters or have your character perceive sensitive information in-character that only the players (not the characters) are aware of.

Write in third person past tense, except during dialogue, in order to keep the forum uniform and easy to read.

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Fight begins:

• Bayani: your combat is ***easy***
• Ik: your combat is ***hard***
• Jetse: your combat is ***OK***

Your party is fighting three kinds of minion: shadow demons, ghasts and the occasional giant rat. They have weak Vigilance, if your Vigilance is better than theirs you get +3 to your first combat roll in this encounter.

You have until 21:00 hrs GMT to defeat them.

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• Win: Enemy is "left for dead"
• Lose: Be "left for dead" by the enemy & it seeks safety
• Spawn: "Combat continues & more enemies join the fight"