Thread: Hell: Merlin the Mad: anti-American & anti-Christian piece of dogshit Board: Limbo / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by Erin (# 2) on
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You want children to starve. You'd better pray to God in heaven that your judgment isn't for Jesus to repay the steaming pile of corn-infested shit that you just deposited on his head. But I think it will be, and I will laugh to see it.
The best part of you dribbled down your mama's leg.
[ 05. January 2015, 23:46: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
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Link?
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
Runs and hides
Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on
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I know there are lots of pleasant and intelligent people in Utah.
MerlintheSad isn't one of them though.
Posted by Erin (# 2) on
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quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Link?
Runs and hides
This post. Basically, hungry children is how he wants to punish their lazy unemployed parents. Anyway, I only opened this thread because it was post that here or in Purgatory, and, well, I'm supposed to set an example. I'm all better now. But Merlin can die of starvation and I think it would be OK.
Posted by Duo Seraphim (# 256) on
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I had a look at the stats on hunger in the US including child hunger in other pages on the site MerlintheBad was dribbling about.
According to the charity Feeding America 1 in 4 American childrenlive in households where the food supply isn't secure. I couldn't care if the parents are the worst bums on the planet - no child should live in a household where there isn't enough food for an active healthy life for all members of the household.
The USDA report on Household Food Security, from which Feeding America gets its figures states that the rates of household food insecurity have increased significantly since 2007 and are the highest since 1995; see here.
Charity - real charity - doesn't enquire about the moral worth of its recipients, merely that they are in need. Now that might mean that some so-called "undeserving" poor might be seen to skive off the charity. So what? The important things is that the needy are fed. I utterly fail to see how that judgment can ever be applied to children, nor how their malnutrition or even starvation could ever be justified in the name of small government.
Sickening.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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"Working Poor"--Wikipedia.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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Maybe Merlin can donate to my local city, county, or state government so they can afford to hire me to do something around here that needs to be done (there's plenty, I'm sure). Sadly all these governments are laying people off because the anti-tax brigade (gee, I wonder where Merlin stands on that spectrum?) have gutted their budgets.
I'd love to have a job, Merlin. I've applied for everything from what I really do (database programming) down to secretary and janitor and everything in between. So it's not that I'm too proud for any given job. I just finished a stint with the census bureau (did you do your census? or are you one of those anti-government freaks that refused to?) but now that's over. Find me a job if you think they're so plentiful. PM me once you have an interview lined up.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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"Working Poor"--Wikipedia.
"Playing by the rules But Losing the Game: America's Working Poor"--Urban Institute.
This is about 10 years old, but well documented, with easy-to-read stats.
Hosts/Admins--sorry about my extraneous post above this one. Technical glitch.
[ 29. June 2010, 06:07: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
Posted by Jonathan Strange (# 11001) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Link?
Runs and hides
This post. Basically, hungry children is how he wants to punish their lazy unemployed parents. Anyway, I only opened this thread because it was post that here or in Purgatory, and, well, I'm supposed to set an example. I'm all better now. But Merlin can die of starvation and I think it would be OK.
Anti-American? Depends what kind of American. Merlin reads like Rush Limbaugh talks. That insatiate walrus suggested poor kids 'dumpster dive' so America can save money by not providing free meals at school for impoverished households.
Posted by Yorick (# 12169) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
I'm all better now.
Ah. A neat example straight out of the book of Yorick’s Guide to Managing Females, (Chapter VII: The Angered Woman):
quote:
Despite the perfectly natural apprehension one might feel in the moment, there is never any need to concern oneself with the angered woman. Simply permit her to squawk and flap about for forty-five minutes to an hour, and she will completely exhaust herself and return to a more placid state of civility all on her own. On no account place a spoon or other hard object in her mouth, slap her across the face, or engage with her in conversation (however ameliorative) during this time- as this will only provoke further anger (cf. Chapter IV: Avoiding Eye Contact).
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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Yorick, if you want your own Hell thread, there'll be no shortage of people to oblige, but right now it's looking a little greedy.
Posted by Justinian (# 5357) on
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Ah, I was wondering who would call MerlinTheMad to hell for that thread. Personally I find Merlin a superb moral guide; if there's anything I agree with him about I check my assumptions very carefully. The rest of the time I just assume he's Bizzarro and whatever he says is good he really means evil.
Posted by Tortuf (# 3784) on
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Why should we feed the children of poor families? (Leaving aside the teachings of some guy or another about 2000 years ago.)
If they are malnourished as children they will be problem citizens as adults because of long term effects of malnutrition and the antisocial behavior that comes with poverty and starvation. They might even have to be fed in prison.
If we do not keep the working class alive unemployment will go down and wage pressure will go up, fueling inflation.
It would make shitheads like Rush and Merlin happy.
Posted by monkeylizard (# 952) on
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I've re-read the linked post 3 times and still can't see where MtM says he wants children to starve. He references adult-aged children living at home, and he says private, voluntary charity is a more efficient vehicle for providing assistance than government. None of this is out of line with his well known view that systemic government support creates systemic dependence on said government. But none of it says he wants kids to starve. He may or may not think that, but it's not in the post.
His one line in the post that states quote:
"But what about the CHILDREN?"
appears to be facetious, in that many election issue/tax increase are justified (at least at local levels) by that sentiment. I didn't take it to mean he wants children to starve, but that it's the overused tag line meant to be guilt-inducing to justify the expansion of government.
I understand that if government-funded support ended suddenly, then many more people would be poor and homeless. Is that where the "MtM wants children to starve" comes from?
If so, quote:
every time "We The People" turn this responsibility for our neighbors over to Gov't we have abrogated that responsibility.
seems to be a direct call for action for each of us to get involved with charitable activities. That it's the responsibility of the neighbor, of the community to take care of one another. He's proposing a different way to provide for the starving children, not to leave them to die.
What did I miss?
Posted by Sine Nomine (# 66) on
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A modest proposal...
Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on
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quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
... he says private, voluntary charity is a more efficient vehicle for providing assistance than government.
This may be true, but ensuring that children eat is not a matter of charity, but rather one of justice. This is why a benefits system should go as far as it can to ensure that children eat, are dressed and are housed as a matter of right not as a result of "charity".
Posted by 205 (# 206) on
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quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
What did I miss?
From a 'self-righteous Statist sycophant' perspective yours is an epic fail.
Speculating further, you have bothered to adequately provide for yourself which has created 'arrogance' and a strong desire to see innocent children starve.
You are, in short, an 'asshole'.
Hope that helps.
Posted by Erin (# 2) on
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Your powers of reading comprehension are thoroughly underwhelming.
Posted by 205 (# 206) on
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I remain undeterred.
Great thread, BTW.
Posted by monkeylizard (# 952) on
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I didn't say I agreed with Merlin. I just don't see where he says that he wants children to go hungry. That may be an end result of what he proposed, but I'm not sure that he thinks it would be.
Posted by 205 (# 206) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
So it's not that I'm too proud for any given job.
Allow me to recommend Walmart. Many years ago I had a family to support and inexplicably my brilliance with prose failed to convince any number of potential employers of my worth.
I started as an hourly employee (yes, their unbridled ignorance failing to appreciate the value of my Psychology BS rankled a bit, but I was in sore need). Not long after though I was promoted to 'management' and even in the interim I paid the bills.
I made a lot of sacrifices which, frankly, had I not been the 'breadwinner' I would have been unwilling to make.
Anyway, it all worked out; by the time I left the company (not quite 15 years later) my total package was north of six figures and my inherent frugality had positioned me to move on to what is next.
You too, I believe, could benefit from working for that remarkable company.
I'm guessing the only real question is how serious you are about stepping up to the plate.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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205, I frankly and simply do not believe you.
Posted by 205 (# 206) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
205, I frankly and simply do not believe you.
It's your choice to decide whether what I write here has any credibility.
You of all people can understand why someone posting in this forum might be reticent to reveal too much.
Whatever. I might need some good help in Cañon City. If you know of anyone willing to make sacrifices like that.
GOD DAMN the SoF has gotten under my skin.
And well done, Simon and all. I hope you're at least breaking even.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by 205:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
205, I frankly and simply do not believe you.
It's your choice to decide whether what I write here has any credibility.
Yes. I have.
quote:
Whatever. I might need some good help in Cañon City. If you know of anyone willing to make sacrifices like that.
And here's just one example of why.
Posted by 205 (# 206) on
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Last week when I was there arranging things I didn't get my PO Box set up; God willing I anticipate doing that no later than next Tuesday.
If you want I'll PM it to you but I'll be busy so it may not happen until late next week.
Have a good day!
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
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205, did you know they were hiring a couple Wal-Mart positions in my town here a couple months ago?
Part time cashiers. Two of them. Less than 20 hours a week.
They received over 1,000 applications.
At my job, our recent receptionist hiring post received 418 applications, including some folks with Ph.D.s
Anyone who has a job right now should be thanking their blessed stars and shutting their damnfool mouths.
Posted by Alfred E. Neuman (# 6855) on
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Thank you blessed stars, *mmph*mmph*.
Posted by mdijon (# 8520) on
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205, you ought to sell out to me.
I started as a rubbish collector a few years ago, but by frugality and opportunism pretty soon owned a fleet of trucks and acted as an outsourcing company for the council. I now have a 7-figure salary, more profit than I know what to do with, and am looking to acquire new companies. I could do with yours and I'll make it worth your while.
Just hang on a week or two and I'll set up an anonymous address for you to write to about it.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
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Here's my personal favorite bit:
I can show you a subsistence level household where THREE out of the six children are adult-aged and living off their single mom's Social Security pittance and food stamps: they get enough to eat and feel almost no motivation to get a job. The reason is because they are given free food. If they were hungry they'd be motivated to get a job and buy groceries!
1. Mewling-the-Mad appears to be basing his recommended policy on activity in ONE household, and anecdotally at that. What does he really know of these people's circumstances?
2. As noted by others, jobs are not so easily come by these days.
3. The notion that adult children will be motivated by hunger to look for work is laughable. Adult children plagued by hunger will probably just move out, in search of greener pastures. The Ma in question may be feeding them precisely to keep them around; she may need other kinds of help from them, esp. if the Social Security she gets is disability-related.
Mewling is an excellent example of why private charity doesn't work.
ETA: food stamp allotments vary state to state; if the woman is in her 60s, she'd get around $65 a month in food stamps on her own account where I live -- barely enough to feed erself, far less six children.
[ 29. June 2010, 21:44: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
Posted by Jonathan Strange (# 11001) on
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And what about the other three children? Would Merlin throw them under the bus so that he could stick it to the 'lazy' three? Apparently so.
[eta: to add the point of what I was trying to say]
[ 29. June 2010, 21:50: Message edited by: Jonathan Strange ]
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
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Er -- sorry -- that's about $65 per month, for those not familiar with the program. Most of the people on my caseload live on combinations of various public assistance programs plus part-time work if they can get it.
All of them are poor.
And because of them, I am fortunate enough to be employed full-time.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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If private charity "worked" we wouldn't have publicly-funded charity.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
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I think if we're honest, neither form of charity really "works," except as a temporary palliative.
For individuals like those on my caseload, whose poverty results from permanent disability, and whose disabilities sometimes (by no means always, or even most of the time) result from other people's actions, it's hard to know how to respond.
But surely writing such people off as not worth our care and concern, either individually or societally, is not a moral option -- at least, not until we complete our current apparent descent into decivilization.
Posted by Duo Seraphim (# 256) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
A modest proposal...
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Jonathan Swift - as cutting a satirist now as he was in 1729.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I think if we're honest, neither form of charity really "works," except as a temporary palliative.
I'm sure people who continue to eat, or live indoors, because of "temporary palliatives" are less concerned about the philosophical implications.
Posted by Duo Seraphim (# 256) on
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quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
I didn't say I agreed with Merlin. I just don't see where he says that he wants children to go hungry. That may be an end result of what he proposed, but I'm not sure that he thinks it would be.
OK let me assist. I've bolded the references to "children" in the first paragraph of MerlintheBad's post in Purgatory, noting that it was a response to the Feeding America site and USDA report, as is also clear from the context:
quote:
These kinds of studies never address the CAUSE of the increase in hunger. They label "insecure" households, where children are not provided with a secure food supply. They show percentages of WIC and food stamps and other programs giving "free" food, especially during the summer. Yet the bottom line is that workers are providing for those who don't work. I can show you a subsistence level household where THREE out of the six children are adult-aged and living off their single mom's Social Security pittance and food stamps: they get enough to eat and feel almost no motivation to get a job. The reason is because they are given free food. If they were hungry they'd be motivated to get a job and buy groceries! "But what about the CHILDREN?" So the Gov't supplies freebies to meet a growing problem and well-meaning asses put working class people on a guilt trip because there are still "hungry" children.
Only MerlintheBad's anecdote refers to adult children. If three of the six children in the anecdotal example were adult age, it must follow that the other three were not. Yet they were supposed to have food aid cut off too. Children under adult age are candidates for school, not the full time workforce. That's before we get to the question of whether work was available for any of them.
Of course we could repeal the child labour laws in the name of smaller government. After all my paternal grandfather left school for the tin foundry at the age of 11. In other words he completed primary school only. His family needed the money. Shame that he needed my grandmother to fill in forms for him, being largely illiterate. My father won a scholarship to grammar school until he was 15. When that ran out, there was no money to keep him there, so he joined the Merchant Navy. He at least got the opportunity, thanks to the benefactor who set up the scholarship and his energy and desire to learn (plus his good use of the Carnegie Library in Llanelli). Otherwise he'd have been down at the tin foundry at 11 too. That's what poverty does.
One anecdote for another...
Children under 15-16 at the youngest (more like 18) shouldn't be part of the work force (and I'm not talking about a paper round or a holiday job here). They should be in full time education or apprenticed and learning a trade. If their parents can't provide food for them, they must be fed. Simple social justice.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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FYI: Merlin said similar things earlier in the thread. It wasn't just this one post.
Posted by 205 (# 206) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
205, you ought to sell out to me.
I'm open to the idea but am just now getting started in my latest venture; closing date is 7.7.2010. You'll understand my intention is to build this thing to a 'turnkey operation' which will, by most 'business valuation' standards, increase the value significantly.
That said to say this: plan on having access to funds somewhere in the range of 400k US and PM in a year or so. As you know, finding qualified buyers is the most challenging part in transactions like this.
quote:
I started as a rubbish collector a few years ago, but by frugality and opportunism pretty soon owned a fleet of trucks and acted as an outsourcing company for the council. I now have a 7-figure salary, more profit than I know what to do with, and am looking to acquire new companies. I could do with yours and I'll make it worth your while.
Just hang on a week or two and I'll set up an anonymous address for you to write to about it.
Now the only question becomes do I post my telephone number... hmmm. I don't really need one in this area code anymore and it may have entertainment value.
Let me get back to you.
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
205, did you know they were hiring a couple Wal-Mart positions in my town here a couple months ago?
Part time cashiers. Two of them. Less than 20 hours a week.
They received over 1,000 applications.
All the more reason mousethief, with his incomparable intelligence and humility (just ask him if you doubt), should go there and wow 'em.
All those other idiots will pale in comparison.
(BTW, now is the time for the hordes to start slavering onto their keyboards telling me how arrogant I am; thanks in advance for your contribution.)
Posted by 205 (# 206) on
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OK, OK... once again I stand corrected.
mousethief's relentless 'persona' (combined with his apparent 'true' existence) hooked me. I now realize (once and for all / note to self) he can't really believe a fraction of the stuff he posts; no one could.
My bad, and to anyone who has been offended by my waste of bandwidth, my apology.
Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
If so, quote:
every time "We The People" turn this responsibility for our neighbors over to Gov't we have abrogated that responsibility.
seems to be a direct call for action for each of us to get involved with charitable activities. That it's the responsibility of the neighbor, of the community to take care of one another. He's proposing a different way to provide for the starving children, not to leave them to die.
Yes but who in their right mind really thinks that enough people will take action to provide sufficient support for all those that need it?
If Merlin really thinks that could be an adequate solution he is even more deluded than I thought.
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
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You've got to remember that Merlin is a Mormon (of a sort). They do actually have a private work-fare system for their ranks supported by church taxes/tithes. Whether it is as efficient as advertised, I don't know. Anyway, he has an example of significant private charity in his life.
But that still doesn't excuse his butt-headed belief that children should suffer for their parents' reputed sins of sloth.
Posted by Erin (# 2) on
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Well they didn't provide enough private charity for him that he didn't end up on Medicaid, so he can suck it.
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
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Ah. I sense an irregular verb:
I'm being assisted in my time of need.
You are on welfare.
They are a bunch of welfare queens.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I think if we're honest, neither form of charity really "works," except as a temporary palliative.
I'm sure people who continue to eat, or live indoors, because of "temporary palliatives" are less concerned about the philosophical implications.
Maybe, maybe not.
I recently assisted an individual in applying for local assistance; he had lost his 12-hour-per-week job and needed help purchasing food. Here's what happened:
He phoned (from my office; he does not have a phone himself) for an appointment with City Welfare and was informed that no appointments could be made by phone. His personal transportation is by bicycle; public transport in this area is sketchy-to-nonexistent; handicap transport is now available (due to budget cuts) only to people with walking disabilities (his are cognitive and psychiatric). This office is located 8 miles each way from his home.
My caseload budget, due to state budget shortfalls, has been sharply cut; I am no longer allowed to drive my clients anywhere except in medical emergencies not requiring an ambulance (and what those might be, exactly, has yet to be determined).
He bicycled to the office and was told he could not have an appointment until he filled out "some paperwork." He has an IQ of about 75 and reads and writes at about the level of a late first-early second grader.
He filled out a 2-page form with some help from the office staff. In exchange, he was granted an appointment for Monday morning (he was applying on a Friday afternoon) and handed a 12-page application for assistance, which included requests for various documentation, some of which go back more than a decade.
Among the documents required were bank statements, copy of lease, copies of divorce papers (he was once married, his cognitive issues having been acquired through TBI following an accident in early adulthood), copies of his application to the state welfare office for food stamps and to the state office of unemployment for unemployment compensation, and several other items I cannot now recall. The offices where he could obtain copies of all this data -- he lacks the ability to maintain records on his own) are widely scattered throughout his city.
Upshot: he had neither time nor strength to gather this documentation (on bicycle, remember) by the time of his Monday morning appointment, offices being closed (including my own) from 4:30 Friday afternoon to 8:30 Monday morning. He did not have the approximately $35 in cash needed to pay for copies of all these documents. Had he had this money, he would not be in need of a temporary food voucher.
When he arrived at my office Monday morning in a panic, he had had nothing to eat since the previous morning -- some dry cereal.
When the smoke cleared and I got things straightened out and he got his temporary food voucher to tide him over until food stamps kick in, it was for $25.
Like you, I am sure he was not "concerned about the philosophical implications" of his experience.
I am equally certain that he is not especially grateful for the "help" received, either.
Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
You've got to remember that Merlin is a Mormon (of a sort). They do actually have a private work-fare system for their ranks supported by church taxes/tithes. Whether it is as efficient as advertised, I don't know. Anyway, he has an example of significant private charity in his life.
What is the difference between paying taxes to the government to feed the hungry, care for the sick etc and paying taxes to the church to do the same? How can one be abrogating our responsibility for our neighbour and the other not?
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
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He'd probably say that one doesn't have to be a Mormon and therefore tithe, while he has to pay taxes to a welfare system he doesn't approve of.
Or so I'd guess.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
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quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
What is the difference between paying taxes to the government to feed the hungry, care for the sick etc and paying taxes to the church to do the same?
The stock answer would be that one can freely choose whether or not to join a church.
Posted by Squibs (# 14408) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 205:
Allow me to recommend Walmart...
Off topic, but you might be interested in reading
Nickel and Dimed
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
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Also (by the same author) Bait and Switch and This Land is Their Land.
And William Greider's Come Home, America.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
What is the difference between paying taxes to the government to feed the hungry, care for the sick etc and paying taxes to the church to do the same?
The stock answer would be that one can freely choose whether or not to join a church.
As one is free to choose whether or not to live in a country. After all, there are places in the world with no income tax.
Posted by PhilA (# 8792) on
:
This thread is one of many reasons why I never read any if Merlins posts on any thread, ever. I only read the first couple of lines of Erin's link. He's not someone I could ever get on with or like and nothing he ever has to say is aid interest to me.
Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
What is the difference between paying taxes to the government to feed the hungry, care for the sick etc and paying taxes to the church to do the same?
The stock answer would be that one can freely choose whether or not to join a church.
As one is free to choose whether or not to live in a country. After all, there are places in the world with no income tax.
So, to bring in my second question: if you choose to abrogate responsibility, you are not really abrogating it at all. Ummm.... Doesn't sound logical to me but it might to MtM, who knows?
Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
If so, quote:
every time "We The People" turn this responsibility for our neighbors over to Gov't we have abrogated that responsibility.
seems to be a direct call for action for each of us to get involved with charitable activities. That it's the responsibility of the neighbor, of the community to take care of one another. He's proposing a different way to provide for the starving children, not to leave them to die.
Yes but who in their right mind really thinks that enough people will take action to provide sufficient support for all those that need it?
And even if they did, why should children be forced to rely on "charity" for the fundamentals they need to survive?
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Why should anyone?
Given that, AFAIK, the minimum wage for full-time work cannot provide -- that is, purchase safe housing, adequate nutrition, clothing, and medical care -- for the needs of a single adult anywhere in this country, and that official "poverty levels" for various forms of public assistance are so low that the working poor qualify for few if any forms of aid, that's a damned good question.
[ 30. June 2010, 21:00: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Like you, I am sure he was not "concerned about the philosophical implications" of his experience.
I am equally certain that he is not especially grateful for the "help" received, either.
Just because a job is done wrong doesn't mean it shouldn't be done at all. The solution for abuse is not disuse but right use.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
I'm not arguing it shouldn't be done; I'm saying what someone else said earlier in the thread: we need justice. Charity doesn't get us there, but it's a necessary if hideous stopgap until justice, or the revolution perhaps needed to achieve it, is done.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
Unfortunately revolutions don't guarantee justice either.
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Unfortunately revolutions don't guarantee justice either.
And not charity either.
Posted by Alfred E. Neuman (# 6855) on
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I'm pissed-off and not gonna take it anymore. Our poor are starving, the border's being overrun, the President is a Nazi...time to lock and load!
Posted by Wisewilliam (# 15474) on
:
The problem with this thread is that Merlin never appears. I don't know what he said about hungry children, but from reading other posts of his it was most likely rubbish - he writes piffle and thinks little. The world today is too complex for old fashioned charity to meet society's needs. Get used to government being necessary and big government at that. Otherwise America's days as number one in the world are numbered.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alfred E. Neuman:
I'm pissed-off and not gonna take it anymore. Our poor are starving, the border's being overrun, the President is a Nazi...time to lock and load!
Since when do the lock-and-load crowd give half a colon load about the poor starving?
Posted by sabine (# 3861) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Wisewilliam:
The problem with this thread is that Merlin never appears. I don't know what he said about hungry children, but from reading other posts of his it was most likely rubbish - he writes piffle and thinks little. The world today is too complex for old fashioned charity to meet society's needs. Get used to government being necessary and big government at that. Otherwise America's days as number one in the world are numbered.
Answering a hell call is not a requirement.
Actually, I think Merlin has been trying to do more brainstorming of late on the Purg thread--and with less windup language--and as a result, even though he hasn't won a following, some of us have our normal blood pressure back. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
sabine
Posted by CorgiGreta (# 443) on
:
If I were Merlin, I would leave flee government incompetence, theft, and slavery for the land of perfect freedom: Somalia.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
You waited two days to post the same damn point everyone has been posting on the Purg thread?
You must have a very boring social life.
Posted by GoodCatholicLad (# 9231) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
205, did you know they were hiring a couple Wal-Mart positions in my town here a couple months ago?
Part time cashiers. Two of them. Less than 20 hours a week.
They received over 1,000 applications.
At my job, our recent receptionist hiring post received 418 applications, including some folks with Ph.D.s
Anyone who has a job right now should be thanking their blessed stars and shutting their damnfool mouths.
ICAM Spiffy, here in the Bay Area places where you used to be able to get a quick gig like Target and Walmart simply aren't hiring.
Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
You want children to starve.
Rubbish. He was making a theoretical point.
quote:
Originally posted by PhilA:
This thread is one of many reasons why I never read any if Merlins posts on any thread, ever. I only read the first couple of lines of Erin's link. He's not someone I could ever get on with or like and nothing he ever has to say is aid interest to me.
He's a bit way out being raised a Mormon, but I happen to rather like his posts.
Not that you'd give a shit. But I don't about your opinion either.
But seeing as we are all irrelevant and totally useless whingers, I thought I'd add my fun whinging.
Posted by duchess (# 2764) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
If private charity "worked" we wouldn't have publicly-funded charity.
Amen, brother! THIS is true. I am so sick of Christian equating bootstrap mentality with Scripture. They seem to overlook that churches AREN'T NOT ABLE to save everyone. There is a dearth of Churches providing medical care, providing food, providing shelters. The programs that do (like Second Harvest, an organization I donate to and promote as much as possible) have really morphed into non-profit organizations. Not "let's open our bibles and turn to page..." places.
IF churches were doing their parts to solve the problem, THEN I might say we should not be looking at the gov't providing $$ to help the poor.
But the churches lack and suck in this way for the most part, sans a few examples.
Posted by QJ (# 14873) on
:
i think that God is wanting us to provide for each other, be it food, clothing, etc.... and that is our priviledge. Also, I think that God wants me/us to ask each other for help and tries to teach us to take care of one another. When Cain asked "am i my brothers keeper?" he already knew that the answer was "Yes."
The wife and i give to charities but so what. We give from our abundance so ours is not usually sacrifical giving, but i assume that the people who are provided for don't care that i'm a crummy chrisian who has not learned much about love, they are just hungry.
There is a neat poem on or near the Statue of Liberty......."give us your poor, tired, etc."
Posted by St. Punk the Pious (# 683) on
:
I have read and reread the offending post from Merlin the Mad. And it utterly fails to deserve Erin's invective. He is saying good intentions and guilt trips have resulted in federal programs that do more to perpetuate poverty than to address it. He is not saying starve the children. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Reasoned disagreement with his post is one thing. That's what Purgatory is for. But Erin's hell call?
Erin, you are the one who is acting in less than a Christian manner in this case.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by St. Punk the Pious:
I have read and reread the offending post from Merlin the Mad. And it utterly fails to deserve Erin's invective. He is saying good intentions and guilt trips have resulted in federal programs that do more to perpetuate poverty than to address it. He is not saying starve the children.
Reasoned disagreement with his post is one thing. That's what Purgatory is for. But Erin's hell call?
Erin, you are the one who is acting in less than a Christian manner in this case.
Punk (and Merlin for that matter),
You mention that Federal programs perpetuate poverty but I have to ask if faith-based schemes, if they tried to address the same problems over the same timescales would not do so too. These may also be full of good intentions and guilt trips.
Volunteer-based schemes often look wonderful, but volunteer labour is too often worth every penny.
Posted by St. Punk the Pious (# 683) on
:
Sioni, as you can tell, there are no easy answers. Jesus didn't say the poor would always be with us for nothing.
Even at the parish level, it is not easy to know what to do. There are a number of homeless in my very small church's neighborhood. And we frequently have to make on-the-spot calls whether a hand-out would help or hurt the one who asks.
I hope Erin doesn't think we are starving people on those occasions when we say no.
Posted by Silver Faux (# 8783) on
:
If you truly believe government agencies have the capacity to compassionately care for the public, try parking your car at a post office while mailing a letter or buying stamps, as compared to parking it at a department store.
At a post office you will be greeted by a sign:
"Staff parking only. Mere customers with the temerity to park here will have their car towed away, crushed, and disposed of at their own expense."
At a department store, you will be provided with free parking. Period.
[ 20. July 2010, 13:53: Message edited by: Silver Faux ]
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
Try parking your car at a post office.
Or at a church, for that matter. "Reserved for Sister Pancretia" or "Reserved for Father Adeodatus" seems to be the norm -- also "No parking in front of church" (why the devil not?). Although, in their defense, some churches do post "Reserved for visitors" signs.
Or at a medical office. "Doctor parking only" for the choicest spots.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
quote:
I hope Erin doesn't think we are starving people on those occasions when we say no.
I do, because that is exactly what happens.
Posted by St. Punk the Pious (# 683) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
quote:
I hope Erin doesn't think we are starving people on those occasions when we say no.
I do, because that is exactly what happens.
Yeah, right. But somehow they keep coming back.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
Which proves my point.
Anyway according to statistics:
* In the U.S. hunger and race are related. In 1991 46% of African-American children were chronically hungry, and 40% of Latino children were chronically hungry compared to 16% of white children.
* The infant mortality rate is closely linked to inadequate nutrition among pregnant women. The U.S. ranks 23rd among industrial nations in infant mortality. African-American infants die at nearly twice the rate of white infants.
* One out of every eight children under the age of twelve in the U.S. goes to bed hungry every night.
quote:
Jesus didn't say the poor would always be with us for nothing.
I guess if you have to rely on an quote devoid of its context you can justify anything by Scripture. Christ's point was that His time on earth was limited, not that we should not seek societal structural solutions to poverty or try to end poverty if we have the means to do so.
[ 20. July 2010, 14:33: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
If you truly believe government agencies have the capacity to compassionately care for the public, try parking your car at a post office while mailing a letter or buying stamps, as compared to parking it at a department store.
At a post office you will be greeted by a sign:
"Staff parking only. Mere customers with the temerity to park here will have their car towed away, crushed, and disposed of at their own expense."
At a department store, you will be provided with free parking. Period.
[I'm sure I'll regret this but...]
If you live in a rural or isolated area find out how quickly mail service would disappear (or how expensive it would become) if there wasn't a government agency ensuring that everyone receives mail at the same cost, no matter where they live. And they do so fairly efficiently (98% of mail arrives at its destination within 5 days) at an extremely cheap cost - $120/per person in taxes per year, plus less than a dollar in postage for a first class letter - is impressive even by private standards.
The "compassion" comes from the fact that rural and isolated citizens aren't punished for where they live.
[ 20. July 2010, 14:44: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
And poverty in the U.S. is perpetuated by unequal support and opportunities for poor people. They generally live in rural and inner city areas, served by poorly funded and poorly maintained schools which deliver a substandard education. This hobbles them from going on to vocational school or university (which is becoming too expensive even for many middle class people), which is the gateway to the middle class.
If you want to do something to end poverty, fund public schools equally from a state or federal level like other countries (who have higher social mobility indexes) do.
Posted by Liopleurodon (# 4836) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
Try parking your car at a post office.
Or at a church, for that matter. "Reserved for Sister Pancretia" or "Reserved for Father Adeodatus" seems to be the norm -- also "No parking in front of church" (why the devil not?). Although, in their defense, some churches do post "Reserved for visitors" signs.
Or at a medical office. "Doctor parking only" for the choicest spots.
Surely the reason why there is usually ample parking by a big department store is that the store was built with the understanding that people would show up in cars. It's much harder to provide enough parking when the building has been around for longer than widespread car ownership, as is the case with many post offices, doctors' surgeries and churches, and there just isn't enough space for everyone to park unless you demolish the surrounding buildings. At my local surgery and my local church, free on-site parking is reserved for people who are disabled and need to park close to the door. Which is as it should be. And okay, yeah, there's staff parking too - it seems reasonable that if someone works there every day they shouldn't have to drive around for an hour looking for somewhere to park.
On the other hand, the extortionate rates for parking near a great many UK hospitals demonstrates how badly things can go wrong if the private sector is allowed to get their grubby mitts on the purses of sick people and their loved ones.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Amen.
It might also help to raise wages to somewhere within hailing distance of what it actually costs to live.
The book is old news now, but Barbara Ehrenreich's Nickel and Dimed shows that low wages with lack of medical benefits coupled with high housing costs drive workers into poverty. Meanwhile, official government poverty levels set for various assistance programs set eligibility for aid at unrealistic levels.
A single working adult cannot survive on $7 or $8 an hour (and that's a huge chunk of the labor force -- retail and restaurant workers, et. al.), yet makes too much to qualify for most publicly-funded assistance.
[ 20. July 2010, 15:23: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Liopleurodon:
The extortionate rates for parking near a great many UK hospitals demonstrates how badly things can go wrong if the private sector is allowed to get their grubby mitts on the purses of sick people and their loved ones.
Never mind parking -- just look at the health insurance industry in the United States!
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
I can understand how Merlin can debate his points because he doesn't claim to be Christian. I find it utterly bizarre that Christians cite a sentence fragment Christ makes in a peculiar circumstance to make the point that we shouldn't make an effort to meet the needs of the poor and reduce poverty.
It's odd that this fragment is universalized but Christ's instruction to the rich man who followed the law isn't, particularly when the early Christians thought that sacrificial giving to the poor was universal demand.
quote:
17If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? 18Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.
-1 John 3
You have to ignore a whole lot of scripture to sustain the modern hyperindividualist notion that the demand for sacrificial giving to help the poor is optional and perhaps if we have a little left over we'll give it away, otherwise they'll work it out somehow.
The Old Testament prophets were all about condemning the societies and governments of the day for not doing right by the poor. God even punished Sodom over it.
quote:
"'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy
--Ezekiel 16:49
Posted by Gwai (# 11076) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
A single working adult cannot survive on $7 or $8 an hour (and that's a huge chunk of the labor force -- retail and restaurant workers, et. al.), yet makes too much to qualify for most publicly-funded assistance.
Actually they can if they know how to budget. I've done it. However, I suspect no one could raise a family on that, probably, so the issue is still a live one.
Posted by Bullfrog. (# 11014) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
A single working adult cannot survive on $7 or $8 an hour (and that's a huge chunk of the labor force -- retail and restaurant workers, et. al.), yet makes too much to qualify for most publicly-funded assistance.
Actually they can if they know how to budget. I've done it. However, I suspect no one could raise a family on that, probably, so the issue is still a live one.
And if a "huge chunk of the labor force" isn't able to survive on their wage, and can't apply for government assistance, then why aren't they all dropping like flies?
Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on
:
Well, at a guess--
1. They're couch surfing at a friend or relative's place.
2. They're holding multiple jobs.
3. They are working for a slimy &*(%$ who is paying them under the table and omitting to take out the taxes.
4. They are charging their lives away on credit cards.
5. They are frequent flyers at the local food pantries.
6. They are living off previously-earned savings and/or the sale of personal possessions.
7. They've found someone who's willing to help support them (Hi, Mom!).
8. They are receiving part of their "salary" in kind--either in the form of a place to sleep, or as take home food (restaurant workers).
9. They are committing crimes of various sorts (drug dealing, defrauding welfare, etc.)
10. Any and all of the above (that'd be the people we serve in our community, then).
Welcome to my world.
[ 21. July 2010, 03:59: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
Or they're holding down 2 or 3 jobs. Read Nickled and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America by Barbara Ehrenreich.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Or they're holding down 2 or 3 jobs.
I'm pretty sure lamb chopped had that on her list. Check #2 again.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Or they're holding down 2 or 3 jobs.
I'm pretty sure lamb chopped had that on her list. Check #2 again.
It bears repeating.
More generally, and as for Bullfrog's 'And if a "huge chunk of the labor force" isn't able to survive on their wage, and can't apply for government assistance, then why aren't they all dropping like flies?'
- the answer is that they do drop well before those on a decent wage. Before pension age most of the time. The poor also clog up prisons disproportionately, which is one way to get fed, housed and clothed.
Posted by kankucho (# 14318) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Squibs:
quote:
Originally posted by 205:
Allow me to recommend Walmart...
Off topic, but you might be interested in reading
Nickel and Dimed
My only criticism of this response is that it took damn near 24 hours for someone to make it. The fact that 205 sang the hymn sheet well enough to get co-opted into Walmart's management is enough to discredit anything else he might want to recommend. All the same, I'd be interested to know what this new business of his is all about: Beelzebub Perpetual Soul Management Solutions anyone?
Posted by kankucho (# 14318) on
:
Sorry to double post but, coincidentally, this press release pinged up in my in box while I was writing the above (yes, really!):
quote:
Survey reveals high human cost of debt problems
A survey by leading debt charity Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) has revealed the high human cost of debt problems. The survey of 372 CCCS clients found that debt problems have a negative impact on people’s close relationships, their health and their ability to carry out their jobs. Alarmingly, 83 percent of those surveyed said that their debt problems had a very negative impact on their lives.
[majority of press release text excised due to our copyright rules]
[ 21. July 2010, 13:53: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
Hostly disintegration ray armed
kankucho, posting the whole damn text of a press release is a potential copyright violation. And it ain't my job to investigate whether it's legit or not - I just delete the fucker and move on.
If you think it's relevant to this thread, please feel free to post a link to the press release if you can find one.
Offending text disintegrated
Marvin
Hellhost
Posted by Bullfrog. (# 11014) on
:
Touche. (to several of the above) Thanks for the reminder. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Posted by Yorick (# 12169) on
:
[Refering to the aftermath of the Doomsday device]
Dreyfus: What do you suppose they will call the crater, huh? The Dreyfus Ditch?
Dr. Fassbender: There shall be no crater.
Dreyfus: No crater? But I want a crater! I want wreckage, twisted metal. Something the world will not forget!
Dr. Fassbender: They won't forget today.
Dreyfus: They won't? Wonderful. I have to tinkle again. Don't do anything till I get back.
Posted by 205 (# 206) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by kankucho:
The fact that 205 sang the hymn sheet well enough to get co-opted into Walmart's management is enough to discredit anything else he might want to recommend.
Who can argue. In my defense I had a family to feed, clothe and shelter, which I did, more than adequately. The most significant cost was my soul but I'm reclaiming it in increments.
quote:
All the same, I'd be interested to know what this new business of his is all about: Beelzebub Perpetual Soul Management Solutions anyone?
You have two options: first is my All Saints Over The Rhine / Shipmeet thread (if you happen to be near Denver Labor Day weekend) or
if you're visiting Cañon City and you want to hook up for a cup of coffee, adult beverage or a meal, please PM well in advance. I'd love to meet people from this forum.
Posted by kankucho (# 14318) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by 205:
quote:
Originally posted by kankucho:
The fact that 205 sang the hymn sheet well enough to get co-opted into Walmart's management is enough to discredit anything else he might want to recommend.
Who can argue. In my defense I had a family to feed, clothe and shelter, which I did, more than adequately. The most significant cost was my soul but I'm reclaiming it in increments.
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
No worries, mate. You're corresponding with a man here who spent several years working for Government & Public Affairs at BP. Now excuse me while I go and iron my hair shirt.
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
I'm glad that you both managed to sell your souls and get decent jobs in corporate America.
Going back to 205's original point, though, it is no longer a no-brainer that you can get a job at WalMart these days. My son (who for some reason wanted to work there) had to hold out for over a year (back in 2006/7) before he got hired. And he had a connection with someone who wanted to hire him.
His boss loves him, but he sure as hell isn't going anywhere, simply slogging along in the same entry-level position and grateful to survive the waves of lay-offs.
I recently applied at the regional chain grocery store for a menial job (hoping to make a bit of money for fixing up the new house) and didn't even hear back from them.
And having considered how many people who are desperate for a job to pay the bills are competing for those WalMart and grocery store jobs, I can't in conscience look for a job simply to make a bit of extra money, even though I've lost my various side jobs and would like to continue to contribute a bit to the household funds.
It's a sad commentary on the economy when someone who is willing to work feels compelled to voluntarily remove herself from the job market for fear of taking away a job from someone who is desperate for it.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Why didn't I listen? Why?
How many people on this thread, which I read and participated in, so I have no excuse whatever, said they never read MtM's posts (much less respond to them)?
Note to self: post and learn. Do NOT read or respond. The man's a suppurating mass of bogey-fears, all stinking up the fetid warrens of whatever he's using for a mind.
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
Posted by Nicolemrw (# 28) on
:
There, there, Apocolypso. You aren't the only one; I did it too.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Well for one thing, it allowed us to see how sharp and knowledgable you are. Merlin is like a gerbil on a wheel.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
Hey Apoc, why was it necessary to dredge up this old boot? No offense or nothin'.
Posted by Nicolemrw (# 28) on
:
Oooh, I can answer that one. Because the things he wants to say to/about MtM can't be said any place other than Hell, and why bother to start a new thread when there's this perfectly good one sitting around?
Same reason I just posted on the thread about Myrrh.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
Fair enough. I know the frustration of feeling like you've gotten stuck to the tar baby* and cursing yourself for taking the first swing.
*the non-racist one -- the one people who have actually read Joel Chandler Harris refer to.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Yep, Nicole nailed it. Everest, Hillary, and all that.
Just tell me one thing: is MtM really that friggin' thick, or is he putting us on for the sake of the blood-and-gore which follows?
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
There is nothing I read from him that I don't see repeated from Drudge Report/Fox News believing folk in other forums. Even when you expose the logical inconsistencies or provide links to discredit the claims, they are dismissed or the subject shifts.
So I would pick "thick".
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Useful to know. Thanks. FWIW, I don't follow the Drudge or Faux News, so I'm a babe in the woods here.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Neither do I. It has something to do with what happens to my blood pressure when I watch/read one of their offerings. ToujoursDan deserves a medal, or something.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Neither do I. It has something to do with what happens to my blood pressure when I watch/read one of their offerings. ToujoursDan deserves a medal, or something.
Thanks! ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
I really believe this is one of those "make or break" moments for America. If the right-wing succeeds on bullying or banning this group of people from doing what they want on their property, I think it will be time to emigrate.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Me, too. See my response to Myrrh on the "Mosque" thread.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
(Me, too about the "make or break" point)
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
Yup. It's starting to feel a bit too much like Germany in the 1930s and as a gay man I know we're on the hit list. We may be after they go after the Muslims and the Mexicans, but I don't think it will stop there.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
I thought it was time to go during the Bush years. I swear to God above, I didn't think it was possible for my countrymen to get any stupider, or more crassly ignorant (and PROUD of it!!) or more prejudiced.
That limbo bar's getting awfully close to the floor. Not sure I can dance under it any more.
Where are y'all going? Can I come too?
Posted by Nicolemrw (# 28) on
:
Canada. We'll all flee to Canada.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
(and PROUD of it!!)
That's what gets me.
I dunno, I think the decent people are gonna win this one. They are just a lot quieter than the others.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
Canada. We'll all flee to Canada.
Fuck.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
Canada. We'll all flee to Canada.
Fuck.
HEY! Why should yours be the only country in North America not to be overrun with drug cartels, bigoted idjits, and terrorists, huh? You already HAVE a Cordoba House.
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
:
And with global warming, Canada will be the only habitable country in North America.
Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on
:
At least the chances of it warming are slim.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
Well my home country has Steven Harper and an evolution denying science minister.
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
:
Yes but migrant Democrats from the US will love Harper. He's just slightly to the right of the Democratic Party there, even though he is widely perceived as a raving right wing loony in Canada.
The less said about the Science Minister, the better.
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
Yup. It's starting to feel a bit too much like Germany in the 1930s and as a gay man I know we're on the hit list. We may be after they go after the Muslims and the Mexicans, but I don't think it will stop there.
I recommend last night's Special Commentary from Keith Olbermann. He starts out with that familiar "First they came for the Communists..." quote. (The link should give you both video and the text.)
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Wow. In the text, we find that the building will no longer be called "Cordoba House" due to the mixed opinions about its meaning. It's now to be called Park 51.
I'm sure there will be a lot of goalpost shifting to explain why such rabid triumphalists intent of rubbing our Western noses in it would suddenly be so accomodating.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
I am finding my already-dwindling hope for America draining out like piss from an incontinent cow. We really are a country of mouth-breathing, self-serving, hate-spewing morons, where using your brain or getting an education is "elitist" and being Muslim in lower Manhattan is "insensitive". Maranatha, come quickly, Lord Jesus.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Well, my guess is some of it can be blamed on the deliberate gutting of the educational system by NCLB. You should see the resumes and apps I get from high school grads, some with a year or two of college, whenever there's job opening here. Ye gods.
If I ever have kids, I'm going to home-school them. At least make sure they can read and write coherently.
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
You don't have to home-school them, Apocalypso, you just need to provide all the supplemental stuff that the schools are no longer allowed to provide (like art and music and nutrition and analytical thinking and debate and ...) because, y'know, it's too expensive and we need to teach to the test so we know our kids are learning something.
I seriously though about home-schooling my kids. They reacted with genuine horror any time I brought it up.
I have no idea what they pictured, but I assume they had long forgotten that I taught them to read before they even hit kindergarten, and my idea of homeschooling was pretty much 'unschooling' so they would have been free to pursue their own interests.
The bottom line was they had enough teachers they liked and they enjoyed the social aspect of public school. Home all day with Mom? Yuck!
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemrw:
Canada. We'll all flee to Canada.
Fuck.
I've pondered fleeing to Canada during every US Presidential election campaign cycle since I first got to vote back in 1972 and Nixon trounced McGovern.
What's different now is that watching the way our government is functioning and the crass political crap going on, I now feel the urge to head North (or somewhere) nearly every day, rather than just during the heavy countdown to Voting Day.
It's not that the liberals aren't winning, it's the kneejerk stupidity of the public debate. The "Yo man, those guys are assholes" sort of conversation which I previously associated only with drunks in bars and call-in radio diatribes has somehow been elevated to Prime Time TV and treated as legitimate and thoughtful commentary.
And sadly, it means that the liberals are starting to be just as stupid and hardline.
And saddest of all, it means that the politicians have to spend all their time dancing on the fence, so we never get to know what they actually believe.
Which means our votes are rather useless, no?
Which means democracy is being killed, no?
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
:
You guys should check out immigration rules before you come; but seriously, if you want to live in the northern parts, or a small town and you have a needed skill, you'd be in like Flynn. I think. But if you've been a rabble-rouser, remember that the Arsy Em Pee share info with the Yanks, nowadays. And they don't use common sense much
Once you're here, you can pretty much forget about being watched by them though.
For how long this will last, I don't know.
Maybe they already do, and I'm just delusional.
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
I grew up on the border, PeteC. You're right that there are reasons other than my innate laziness that I never bothered to fly the coop.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I am finding my already-dwindling hope for America draining out like piss from an incontinent cow.
Me too. This is so fucking depressing.
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
:
I'm not feeling terribly upset about the state of the country lately. Maybe my lack of television pays off.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
I too have no television. That's not it. Maybe you're a more hopeful person than I am.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
John Stewart hits it out of the park too:
Mosque-erade
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
Main reason taht I haven't fled north - it's Quebec. I have to go a long damn ways North to get past that place....
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I too have no television. That's not it. Maybe you're a more hopeful person than I am.
That would be a first. I'm usually a pessimistic bitch.
Perhaps it's living here. People are pretty mellow. The nutjobs are obvious nutjobs and not given much credence. I hear people spouting about how "obamacare" is the first sign of the apocolypse, but it's just a little background noise.
Tea partiers are only making noise in Anchorage, and getting almost no coverage.
Frankly the concern on this thread surprised me. I'm still riding the optimism wave left over from the election.
PS- if you can, read "Idiot America". It's depressing in a sense, but he shows well where this relativism movement is coming from. Knowledge is power. Plus he's a great writer.
[ 18. August 2010, 02:15: Message edited by: comet ]
Posted by RadicalWhig (# 13190) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
What's different now is that watching the way our government is functioning and the crass political crap going on, I now feel the urge to head North (or somewhere) nearly every day, rather than just during the heavy countdown to Voting Day.
It's not that the liberals aren't winning, it's the kneejerk stupidity of the public debate. The "Yo man, those guys are assholes" sort of conversation which I previously associated only with drunks in bars and call-in radio diatribes has somehow been elevated to Prime Time TV and treated as legitimate and thoughtful commentary.
And sadly, it means that the liberals are starting to be just as stupid and hardline.
And saddest of all, it means that the politicians have to spend all their time dancing on the fence, so we never get to know what they actually believe.
Which means our votes are rather useless, no?
Which means democracy is being killed, no?
I fear so. I hope not, but I fear so.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
John Stewart hits it out of the park too:
Mosque-erade
Thank you for the link. Lots of gold in there. The bit showing what Glenn Beck said 3 months earlier completely made my day.
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
Main reason taht I haven't fled north - it's Quebec. I have to go a long damn ways North to get past that place....
Canada is a big country - even bigger than the USA. There's an awful lot of non-Québec up here. I can go whole months without thinking of it, and I live just across its border.
You'll find language issues anywhere. Unless it is the socialist-lite policies of the PLQ? Even federalists will vote for the PQ when they get fed up with the PLQ.
PS: the further North you go, the more French it is. When it's not Inuit. So that's not gonna help you either.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
It's just hard to believe one person can be THIS dense. He seems more interested in getting the last word in that clicking on the links or reflecting on all the inconsistencies others have raised.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
You're right, ToujoursDan. I was thinking about this last night, but couldn't be arsed to gp back through and collect all the good points (or even just my own) that have gone utterly ignored.
Those bogeymen are realer than the bricks and mortar that'll go into the new community center.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
Main reason taht I haven't fled north - it's Quebec. I have to go a long damn ways North to get past that place....
Canada is a big country - even bigger than the USA. There's an awful lot of non-Québec up here. I can go whole months without thinking of it, and I live just across its border.
You'll find language issues anywhere. Unless it is the socialist-lite policies of the PLQ? Even federalists will vote for the PQ when they get fed up with the PLQ.
PS: the further North you go, the more French it is. When it's not Inuit. So that's not gonna help you either.
I'd be fine w/ going northwest to avoid Quebec, but I'd be going far more west than north for the places I'm interested in.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
Québec is a wonderful place to live in, even if you don't speak French. Just move to the west Island of Montréal or the Aylmer area of Gatineau.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
Québec is a wonderful place to live in, even if you don't speak French. Just move to the west Island of Montréal or the Aylmer area of Gatineau.
It's been the better part of a decade since I was up there, and my French has largely faded/been replaced w/ Korean. Has the weaponized use of French faded? It was always impossible to get a response in English then....(not as bad in Montreal itself, but horrid heading up from Sherbrooke area).
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
Younger people are more likely to be bilingual, more used to using English (as they often work for globalized companies) and are more used to multiculturalism. I'm sure you'll run into a bit of that, but given that retail is overwhelmingly young-staffed, it's far less often than it used to be.
Posted by Erin (# 2) on
:
I never thought I'd say this, considering how snowbound Canuckistan is, but since 18% of us are clearly too stupid to live, the Great White North is looking better and better.
Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on
:
Huh!? Ya mean he's not!?
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
I never thought I'd say this, considering how snowbound Canuckistan is, but since 18% of us are clearly too stupid to live, the Great White North is looking better and better.
Heh...it actually gets warmer if I go north....Vermont (my part anyways) is significantly colder than most of populated Canada.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
As per RooK's unstated fear, thoguht who's to say we won't start a trend that just imports the stupidity there?
(Hm, they do need Spanish-speaking teachers up there... who knew?)
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
Take the 18% and offer them as slave labour in Nunavut.
Posted by Alfred E. Neuman (# 6855) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
I never thought I'd say this, considering how snowbound Canuckistan is, but since 18% of us are clearly too stupid to live, the Great White North is looking better and better.
There has always been a lunatic fringe but they seem more evident with the info age. When our news fix was satisfied by magazines and newspapers, the illiterati and their spittle-flecked blatherings were more confined to jerkwater drinking establishments and good-old-boy clubs - and were commonly ignored by 'responsible' national news organizatons.
Now we're saturated with cybernews reports of every half-baked poll and staged protest gathering on the planet. I mean, really - who gives a flying leap that Laura Schlessinger quit her radio show? Still, I regularly suffer despair and panic over rampant right-wing idiocy. I hate the false legitimacy given these goons by over-exposure.
Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Take the 18% and offer them as slave labour in Nunavut.
You do realize that if that 18% is a correct estimate that more people believe that Obama is Muslim than actually live in Canada.
A fun poll would ask how many people think he's Irish.
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Take the 18% and offer them as slave labour in Nunavut.
The Inuit wouldn't have those people with unwiped bums. They'd be all shuffled onto ice-floes to die.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Take the 18% and offer them as slave labour in Nunavut.
The Inuit wouldn't have those people with unwiped bums. They'd be all shuffled onto ice-floes to die.
So, you're in favor of this initiative?
Hmm...it might help the polar bears too!
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Take the 18% and offer them as slave labour in Nunavut.
The Inuit wouldn't have those people with unwiped bums. They'd be all shuffled onto ice-floes to die.
Now that sounds like a plan!
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
Hmm...it might help the polar bears too!
Then again, it might be the polar bear equivalent of replacing the supermarkets in failing neighborhoods with junky fast food restaurants.
[ 20. August 2010, 04:53: Message edited by: jlg ]
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Take the 18% and offer them as slave labour in Nunavut.
You do realize that if that 18% is a correct estimate that more people believe that Obama is Muslim than actually live in Canada.
A fun poll would ask how many people think he's Irish.
(Lyda Rose Quotefile's this. You deserve it.)
Fun Circus thread idea! Create a snazzy Celtic myth along the lines of Fynn McCool starring Barak O'Bama! But not here, or you'll die messily!
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
Hmm...it might help the polar bears too!
Then again, it might be the polar bear equivalent of replacing the supermarkets in failing neighborhoods with junky fast food restaurants.
'Fast' in this case referring to the rate of food capture, not the rate at which the food moves across the ice. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
Posted by Erin (# 2) on
:
Well shit. Apparently Canadians are equally retarded, now where do I emigrate to?
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Well shit. Apparently Canadians are equally retarded, now where do I emigrate to?
Sorry, what's retarded about that exactly?
Is this going to be like mobile phones, which were proudly declared to have 'no biological effects', and then when biological effects were proven, were declared to have 'no HEALTH effects'?
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
Erin, I spent some years of my youth working construction jobs overseas, with a lot of ex-pat engineers, their often multi-cultural and sometimes crazy wives, weird administrative types, and locals. I have spent a much longer period living in various US towns ranging from small cities to Tiny Towns in New England.
I'm now 59 yrs old and one thing I know: there are idiots and crazies everywhere you go. It's just the human condition. And they feel the same way about you.
That's a generic you, btw.
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
orfeo, without getting into the details, the 'biological effects' of cell phones reminds me all too much of the 'power lines cause leukemia' thing from some many years back.
Yes, there is much we don't know. But my bottom line is somewhat Darwinian: we humans, as a species will either adapt or die out.
My money (if only I were to survive and money would still mean anything) is on the rats and the cockroaches.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
The usual brain tumor hype about cell phones has been roundly disproven by the Finns using 50(?) years of the best medical records in the world (cancer-related medical records there are heavily regulated by law there).
And the usual hype about transmission towers has been anecdotally (and hilariously) disproven. I can't find the story again, but one town was supposedly suffering from gigantic effects from a new transmission tower there. They take the company to court and many people testify that *right that moment* they were still experiencing pain/nausea/etc from the tower, and that they had been ever since the tower was turned on. The company then informs the court that they turned the tower off two weeks prior and hadn't informed the town, in order to wait for the trial and pull this stunt. The case against them was dismissed pretty quickly from there....
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
I found it! Edit window's closed though.
http://boingboing.net/2010/01/15/electrosensitives-to.html
Somewhat misremembered, but the important parts are there imo....
quote:
A group of South African "electrosensitive" activists had been tormented by their local packet-data radio tower, with terrible symptoms that only subsided when they left the area. They're suing.
Only one problem: during a six week period while they were experiencing their symptoms, the tower was switched off, but the symptoms persisted...[they said the symptoms would subside in 4 hours to 2 days of leaving the area]....Of course, they're still suing.
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
I'm now 59 yrs old and one thing I know: there are idiots and crazies everywhere you go. It's just the human condition. And they feel the same way about you.
as a corellary: in my ten years as a newsie, I learned that the noisiest people on both sides of any debate are the most ignorant. It's the quiet ones who have something useful to contribute.
We have seen the stupid and it is us.
Posted by Erin (# 2) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Well shit. Apparently Canadians are equally retarded, now where do I emigrate to?
Sorry, what's retarded about that exactly?
Is this going to be like mobile phones, which were proudly declared to have 'no biological effects', and then when biological effects were proven, were declared to have 'no HEALTH effects'?
Seriously? Two things: first off, if they think none of their neighbors are using wifi that is bombarding their house, they're dumber than you. Second, I, too, had vague and subjective symptoms during the school week that magically disappeared Fridays at 2:30.
As for your claims about cell phones, Jesus, you're one of them. Now at least I know I don't have to take anything you write seriously ever again.
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
:
I didn't get anything about wi-fi signals or missing school in your link, Erin. It sent me to something about sone ugly public official smoking pot.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I didn't get anything about wi-fi signals or missing school in your link, Erin. It sent me to something about sone ugly public official smoking pot.
Parents at some school bitch about their kids getting sick from a Wi-Fi network set up there. The illnesses go away on Friday afternoon and return Monday morning without fail (shock!) School board sensibly ignores the morons who are getting trolled by their kids, and ask for doctor notes. A parent: "They are culpable and ... they have the gall to go on the record and say they haven't had any doctors' notes. Well what doctor has been schooled about the rate of microwave infections?" [italics mine...certainly a new sort of infection ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
]
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
If I microwave an infection into my salmonella-tainted eggs, can I still eat them?
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I didn't get anything about wi-fi signals or missing school in your link, Erin. It sent me to something about some ugly public official smoking pot.
All I got was a warning about a Trojan from my anti-virus program.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
Well shit. Apparently Canadians are equally retarded, now where do I emigrate to?
Sorry, what's retarded about that exactly?
Is this going to be like mobile phones, which were proudly declared to have 'no biological effects', and then when biological effects were proven, were declared to have 'no HEALTH effects'?
Seriously? Two things: first off, if they think none of their neighbors are using wifi that is bombarding their house, they're dumber than you. Second, I, too, had vague and subjective symptoms during the school week that magically disappeared Fridays at 2:30.
As for your claims about cell phones, Jesus, you're one of them. Now at least I know I don't have to take anything you write seriously ever again.
My claims about cell phones?
I didn't say I thought cell phones made you sick. I merely pointed out that there is a documented case of people going "whoops, that technology we told you about... it does do SOMETHING after all. It causes biological changes. We still don't think it will HURT you, but we told you confidently that it does absolutely zero and it turns out the answer is 'not quite zero'".
I'm not suggesting they cause cancer. I'm saying that it's extremely irritating when the marketers of a new technology don't use the precautionary principle. You don't automatically blame the new technology, but neither do you rule it OUT until it's been properly investigated and shown not to be the cause.
The mobile phone thing was very well publicised at the time, so if I'm 'one of them', so are plenty other people including the scientists who made the finding.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
An example of the kind of report is here. It's not a claim that phones make you sick.
quote:
“Using a cell phone is not innocuous. It has an effect on your brain. Whether that's good or bad, we don't yet know, but it's definitely having an effect. The effects are clear. The increase in excitability is clear and lasts for about an hour. Is that effect harmful or beneficial? I don't know,”
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
:
from the EARTHtimes article: quote:
The two, [neurologists} however, agreed that the use of mobile phones should be discouraged among children and teenagers till more conclusive data is collected and examined.
Yeah, good luck with that!
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
from the EARTHtimes article: quote:
The two, [neurologists} however, agreed that the use of mobile phones should be discouraged among children and teenagers till more conclusive data is collected and examined.
Yeah, good luck with that!
You don't go to scientists for THAT kind of advice! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
I need an aspirin; too much cell phone use? Or too much Merlin?
Somebody please help me sort out what in HELL he is actually arguing for or against. It looks like a mass of mutually exclusive self-contradictory claims.
Or maybe he's the only poster in the purg thread who isn't reading what he actually writes . . .
. . . or maybe he just has to be opposing whoever else makes a point.
I give up.
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
Wise decision, Apocalypso.
Posted by Wisewilliam (# 15474) on
:
quote:
The two, [neurologists} however, agreed that the use of mobile phones should be discouraged among children and teenagers till more conclusive data is collected and examined.
When I worked for gov't we consulted scientists on a wide variety of subjects. Inevitably their replies ended with the words: "More reasrch is needed."
Jobs for the boys.
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
Actually, "more research is needed" is a form of CYA - "cover your ass". If you say something definitive, you could end up having to defend it in court. Put in a few waffle words and you're safe.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
To be fair, if someone put a gun to my head and demanded I choose whether to work with Merlin or Myrrh on a committee, I'd probably pick Merlin. I'd just hope that the committee involved building a fence or something else that didn't involve a whole lot of, y'know, talking.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
To be fair, if someone put a gun to my head and demanded I choose whether to work with Merlin or Myrrh on a committee, I'd probably pick Merlin. I'd just hope that the committee involved building a fence or something else that didn't involve a whole lot of, y'know, talking.
I dunno which one I could cope w/. Myrrh will be whacky as all shit and off the wall, and Merlin will be that 50% of the time, and the other 50% is his path-away-from-mormonism testimony which he applies to almost every situation. I'm kinda surprised he hasn't brought it up yet for this situation yet, actually!
Not sure which I could cope w/ more.
[ 23. August 2010, 03:10: Message edited by: pjkirk ]
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
Again, to be fair, if the project was something along the lines of "writing a policy manual", my response would be "Shoot me."
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
Tangent: a friend once asked me who I'd want to be stuck on a desert island with.
It was a tough one. How to pick the exact right person that I'd most enjoy hunting down as food?
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
A boat builder.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
And if stuck on a desert island with my computer and Internet access, would I spend my time in Hell or in Purg?
Right now, Hell contains more people who make sense . . . although the threads are about people who don't.
I have to get out more.
Posted by Anna B (# 1439) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Again, to be fair, if the project was something along the lines of "writing a policy manual", my response would be "Shoot me."
Unbeknownst to most people, Jean-Paul Sartre did time as a young man on a church committee charged with a writing project.
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Tangent: a friend once asked me who I'd want to be stuck on a desert island with.
It was a tough one. How to pick the exact right person that I'd most enjoy hunting down as food?
Compounded by the fact that the internet isn't conducive to determining which person is the meatiest.
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Anna B:
Unbeknownst to most people, Jean-Paul Sartre did time as a young man on a church committee charged with a writing project.
That explains his familiarity with Hell in Huis Clos.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Anna B:
Unbeknownst to most people, Jean-Paul Sartre did time as a young man on a church committee charged with a writing project.
That explains his familiarity with Hell in Huis Clos.
To say nothing of the characters he envisions there.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
A boat builder.
An amusing point: I'm pretty sure I could build a boat.
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
Well, apparently the hardest part of any boat is shaping the ribs... helps if you have some lying around.
And then you could always wear the ass as a fetching hat to keep the sun off.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
Well, apparently the hardest part of any boat is shaping the ribs... helps if you have some lying around.
And then you could always wear the ass as a fetching hat to keep the sun off.
Sheesh. If you have ribs, you build women with 'em, and they keep the sun off for ya. Din't you read yer Bibul?
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
Well, apparently the hardest part of any boat is shaping the ribs... helps if you have some lying around.
And then you could always wear the ass as a fetching hat to keep the sun off.
Sheesh. If you have ribs, you build women with 'em, and they keep the sun off for ya. Din't you read yer Bibul?
So, lemme see if I have this straight. You eat the guy you're stranded on the island with. You use his ribs to make a woman, and then she cooks for you?
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
I'm told that whole building-a-woman-with-ribs thing requires being God. I've never tried it myself. Then again it's awfully hard to come by human ribs these days.
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
Not in my line of work.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
I imagine if you walked out the door with one strapped to your lunchbox somebody might say something.
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
I have a big purse.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I'm told that whole building-a-woman-with-ribs thing requires being God.
Not to worry. On another thread, in another galaxy not nearly far enough away, there is an All-Knowing One who can provide links that tell you how.
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I've never tried it myself. Then again it's awfully hard to come by human ribs these days.
What? You don't have any?
Or you're not human?
[ 24. August 2010, 05:15: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
Oh, there are ribs around that are still inside people. I meant spare ribs.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Damn. Now I'm hungry. Who has barbecue sauce? Let's roast Merlin.
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Damn. Now I'm hungry. Who has barbecue sauce? Let's roast Merlin.
I miss KenWritez.
![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I need an aspirin; too much cell phone use? Or too much Merlin?
Somebody please help me sort out what in HELL he is actually arguing for or against. It looks like a mass of mutually exclusive self-contradictory claims.
Or maybe he's the only poster in the purg thread who isn't reading what he actually writes . . .
. . . or maybe he just has to be opposing whoever else makes a point.
I give up.
Yeah. I should have done that instead of letting him get to me. (And it's not really him, but just the ugliness of this whole thing and my fear of where it's taking us.)
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Truth is, though, that giving up also feels like giving in to the screamers now protesting on Park Place.
How many dots are needed to connect that mob to some version of Kristallnacht?
And with public figures like Palin and Gingrich to urge them on . . . and others complacently assuming that someething like the Third Reich Could Never Happen Here.
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Damn. Now I'm hungry. Who has barbecue sauce? Let's roast Merlin.
I miss KenWritez.
Man, that's beautiful. It's like a little piece of Ship call-and-response liturgy.
I dunno, part of me is horrified by the ugliness I am seeing inprint lately, but another part of me is wondering if part of real change is wading through the ugliness.
I am sure there were plenty of reasons to hate the human race in Little Rock back in the day.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
OK, so now I have to ask: who is Ken Writez, and what prompted the missing?
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Truth is, though, that giving up also feels like giving in to the screamers now protesting on Park Place.
How many dots are needed to connect that mob to some version of Kristallnacht?
And with public figures like Palin and Gingrich to urge them on . . . and others complacently assuming that someething like the Third Reich Could Never Happen Here.
I don't want to overreact but I haven't seen this kind of racism (against Hispanics/Muslims/African American like Shirley Sherrod whose speeches are heavily edited to make her appear racist, etc.) ever.
Posted by Mamacita (# 3659) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
OK, so now I have to ask: who is Ken Writez, and what prompted the missing?
KenWritez, of blessed memory, was a creative and hilarious shipmate who passed away last year. He was a good man (it seemed to me) who could do snark and satire with the best of 'em. He must have been a terrific cook because I remember him making lots of contributions to the recipe thread in heaven. All of which brings me to the "missing" part of your question: I suspect the suggestion to BBQ a certain shipmate has brought to mind KenWritez' thread on cooking shipmates. You can read more about him here.
[ 24. August 2010, 17:01: Message edited by: Mamacita ]
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Truth is, though, that giving up also feels like giving in to the screamers now protesting on Park Place.
How many dots are needed to connect that mob to some version of Kristallnacht?
And with public figures like Palin and Gingrich to urge them on . . . and others complacently assuming that someething like the Third Reich Could Never Happen Here.
I don't want to overreact but I haven't seen this kind of racism (against Hispanics/Muslims/African American like Shirley Sherrod whose speeches are heavily edited to make her appear racist, etc.) ever.
You live in a nice world. Can I move in there?
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Mamacita:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
OK, so now I have to ask: who is Ken Writez, and what prompted the missing?
KenWritez, of blessed memory, was a creative and hilarious shipmate who passed away last year. He was a good man (it seemed to me) who could do snark and satire with the best of 'em. He must have been a terrific cook because I remember him making lots of contributions to the recipe thread in heaven. All of which brings me to the "missing" part of your question: I suspect the suggestion to BBQ a certain shipmate has brought to mind KenWritez' thread on cooking shipmates. You can read more about him here.
He also had really strong opinions about barbeque, as I recall.
Anyway, Apocalypso, your combination of the concepts of cannibalism and barbeque has invoked the spirit of Kenwritez.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Truth is, though, that giving up also feels like giving in to the screamers now protesting on Park Place.
How many dots are needed to connect that mob to some version of Kristallnacht?
And with public figures like Palin and Gingrich to urge them on . . . and others complacently assuming that someething like the Third Reich Could Never Happen Here.
I don't want to overreact but I haven't seen this kind of racism (against Hispanics/Muslims/African American like Shirley Sherrod whose speeches are heavily edited to make her appear racist, etc.) ever.
You live in a nice world. Can I move in there?
Nationally? In the past 30 years or so? I'm very willing to be wrong about this. Did it just blow over before?
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
(Day two of trying to build a fence)
Shoot me.
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
I don't want to overreact but I haven't seen this kind of racism (against Hispanics/Muslims/African American like Shirley Sherrod whose speeches are heavily edited to make her appear racist, etc.) ever.
You live in a nice world. Can I move in there?
Nationally? In the past 30 years or so? I'm very willing to be wrong about this. Did it just blow over before?
Blow over? It's over? Since when? I never got that memo! I got called an 'anchor baby' last week and told to go back where I came from!
I replied to that person, "I'm not heading back to California until Christmas!"
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
... I got called an 'anchor baby' last week and told to go back where I came from!
Thanks for broadening my horizons as I didn't know that term.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
How did you miss that term? I don't watch television and even I'd heard it (before it was leveled at me).
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
I didn't know it either until recently. Everything I know about insularity, narrowmindedness, and craven fear-driven bigotry I've learned since boarding this Ship -- though oddly, not in Hell.
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
:
Another take on anchor babies.
Posted by comet (# 10353) on
:
I suppose technically my mom could be called an "anchor baby" though she'd probably blow milk out of her nose with laughter.
It's just not the same when papa has a master's degree and is coming from Ireland.
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I didn't know it either until recently. Everything I know about insularity, narrowmindedness, and craven fear-driven bigotry I've learned since boarding this Ship -- though oddly, not in Hell.
And that's why I want to live in your world. I get this shit thrown at me all the time. And I live in one of the whitest cities in America, so not only do I run into the pigheaded blatant bigotry, I get the liberal theoretically educated but dumb as a stump bigotry, too.
Posted by Erin (# 2) on
:
I dunno... I live in the most red-white-blue city in the country, where we can't even properly bomb a mosque, and other than the comments on the local news' websites, I don't see much of it. And it's not like I hang around lily-white areas, either. Maybe that's why. If I were hanging around the country club enclaves or the fashionable Westside, I'd see more of it. But in my every day life, it's just people flipping each other off for being sucky drivers.
[ 25. August 2010, 00:46: Message edited by: Erin ]
Posted by sabine (# 3861) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
I suppose technically my mom could be called an "anchor baby" though she'd probably blow milk out of her nose with laughter.
It's just not the same when papa has a master's degree and is coming from Ireland.
In the US, the adult person who sponsors a legal immigrant is called the anchor.
The whole anchor baby thing is misleading at best and scare tactics hype at worst. Legal immigration is not as simple as having a baby in the US and then automatically receiving a green card or citizenship.
Typically the anchor sponsors someone who resides elsewhere and then is granted entry into the country after piles of paperwork and much documentation. I know of some tragic cases where people get married and then one of them (holding an educational or tourist visa) has to leave the country so the spouse (and anchor) can start the cumbersome process of sponsoring them.
Few babies would be able to do this, nor would their parents want to move out of the country and await their fate (which is not a given and may take a long time).
I'm not a lawyer, but I was once a Family Reunification Specialist which meant I worked with anchors trying to sponsor family members living outside the US. We had a few children come in trying to be sponsors for uncles, adult siblings, etc. and they were regularly turned down.
The fear of anchor baby issues is just another example of how distorted a rumor can get.
ETA: If the anchor baby issue were that simple, immigration raids wouldn't be separating parents from children right now. The people who want to change the constitution about people being born here being citizens need to rethink the anchor baby scare.
sabine
[ 25. August 2010, 02:00: Message edited by: sabine ]
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
I dunno... I live in the most red-white-blue city in the country, where we can't even properly bomb a mosque, and other than the comments on the local news' websites, I don't see much of it.
Ah, yes, I forgot. If racism doesn't happen where and when a white person can see it, it doesn't exist.
And if a POC talks about racism they've experienced, and a white person says, "Well, that's not bad" then it's not really racism and the POC should shut the hell up and know their place.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
I dunno... I live in the most red-white-blue city in the country, where we can't even properly bomb a mosque, and other than the comments on the local news' websites, I don't see much of it.
Ah, yes, I forgot. If racism doesn't happen where and when a white person can see it, it doesn't exist.
And if a POC talks about racism they've experienced, and a white person says, "Well, that's not bad" then it's not really racism and the POC should shut the hell up and know their place.
What if it's 2 POCs?
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
I dunno... I live in the most red-white-blue city in the country, where we can't even properly bomb a mosque, and other than the comments on the local news' websites, I don't see much of it.
Ah, yes, I forgot. If racism doesn't happen where and when a white person can see it, it doesn't exist.
And if a POC talks about racism they've experienced, and a white person says, "Well, that's not bad" then it's not really racism and the POC should shut the hell up and know their place.
Green isn't a colour? Maybe it's the colour that triggers overreaction in thin-skinned offenderati.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I didn't know it either until recently. Everything I know about insularity, narrowmindedness, and craven fear-driven bigotry I've learned since boarding this Ship -- though oddly, not in Hell.
And that's why I want to live in your world. I get this shit thrown at me all the time. And I live in one of the whitest cities in America, so not only do I run into the pigheaded blatant bigotry, I get the liberal theoretically educated but dumb as a stump bigotry, too.
Yeah, it sucks to have to constantly sort of "guard" yourself from other people's casual-but-wildly-off-base assumptions about who you are or what you're like based on skin tone or accent or flavorful surname or gender or well . . . there's a lot of blanks to fill.
The fact that I don't have to deal with much of that is an accident, and I wish more of us could keep the accidental nature of our circumstances in mind. Hell, any of us is one motorcyle accident sans helmet away from being on my caseload. I've lately been dealing with people at work who seem to believe their relatives are somehow more entitled to services than other people's relatives are. Based on what? Ya got me.
I do deal with this crap some, a little -- I'm in a position dominated by one gender and belong to the other. Also I have more-than-average education but damn-all to show for it materially because of the work I do, which pays crap.
People in the church I'm no longer attending used to look at me and how I'm dressed and what I drive and where I live, and they get all weirded out when I open my mouth and start talking; they assume there must be something wrong with me because, from their view, the lifestyle and the education don't match.
Not that I'm in need of sympathy; I know I have it easy. And I also know I did nothing to earn my soft ride.
I just don't know what to do about it.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
Back when I wore my beard much longer, I was twice, in two different cities 25 miles apart, yelled at from a passing car to "go home to [my] own country." With other epithets as applicable. One was in the busy downtown section, and I didn't feel terribly threatened. The other was on a long stretch of road bordered on both sides with woods, and with few businesses, and no other cars in sight in either direction. Fortunately they were content to yell, and didn't decide to stop and beat the shit out of me. It could have been a long time before somebody noticed me laying in a heap on the side of the road and gotten help.
I have a very strong visceral reaction to bigotry and hate. To my shame, I didn't have nearly so strong a reaction to it before I was a victim of it. But now I know.
Posted by Nicolemrw (# 28) on
:
With me it was having to deal with antisemitism as a kid because of my "Jewish" last name.
The irony being I'm not Jewish.
But it does teach you about being an outside and about prejudice.
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
How did you miss that term? I don't watch television and even I'd heard it (before it was leveled at me).
It's an American term and I live in Britain.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
We're talking about two different things.
I was talking about a national, media driven, hysterical, near-pogrom based on race/religion, you seem to be talking about racist remarks and actions made in daily life. I have absolutely no doubt that the latter continues (heck, I'm a WASP and I hear it.) But I don't recall anything like what we are experiencing.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
And I should add a hysterical, near-pogrom perpetuated at the instigation and with the support of party leaders (Gingrich, Palin, etc.) of a major political party which has a reasonable chance of getting back into power.
If there is a precedent to this within our lifetimes, I'd be happy to learn more about it.
[ 25. August 2010, 13:03: Message edited by: ToujoursDan ]
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
I think we're talking about two different-but-closely-related things, TjD; the near-pogram doesn't happen without the casual acceptance of a lot of what might be called "routine-daily-ism-itis."
Might be different in NYC (thanks for your wonderful "love song" to that city, where I once lived and had experiences similar to yours, BTW). Where I live now is so blandly uniform as to drive me nuts sometimes, but with that comes a largish cohort of people with little or no experience of those whose racial, ethnic, religious, sexual, linguistic, etc. identities differ from their own. I know a number of people who continue living in various kinds of closets as a result. And whenever I forget that I'm living in a relative backwater, I get occasional sharp reminders from people who drop slurs, or characterize one or more groups of "others" in slanderous ways. As I'm a WASP (and so are they), it doesn't get directed at me, except when I object to the use of slurs, slander, and so on.
And then there's just this surprised (and sometimes pained) stare which seems to mean, "Oh. You're one of those PC bozos."
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
Yeah. It seems to be a vicious cycle. Racist slurs and actions make it easier for politicians to race-bait to gain influence, which makes racist slurs and actions more acceptable.
But how can this be turned around?
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
Since we're talking about speech, and speech is (rightly) protected, it can only be turned around when the hoi polloi stand up and say, "Enough!"
Posted by Erin (# 2) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
I dunno... I live in the most red-white-blue city in the country, where we can't even properly bomb a mosque, and other than the comments on the local news' websites, I don't see much of it.
Ah, yes, I forgot. If racism doesn't happen where and when a white person can see it, it doesn't exist.
And if a POC talks about racism they've experienced, and a white person says, "Well, that's not bad" then it's not really racism and the POC should shut the hell up and know their place.
Whatevs. All I know is that I haven't seen anyone being rounded up and sent to the concentration camps, or even heard it discussed, which is what Toujours Dan was talking about, you tedious harping shrew. Unbunch your offenderati panties and READ THE FUCKING THREAD.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
Colours on the Department of Justice website? Invoking a woman with Parkinson's Disease that retired 10 years ago?
Are the depths of his paranoia reaching new levels or did I just screen it out before?
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
Are the depths of his paranoia reaching new levels or did I just screen it out before?
Maybe and maybe. I never saw any variants on his stupid little this-is-my-testimony posts for a year or so. I consequently think that anything is better than that shit.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
The current version of "they're coming for my guns" is Merlin providing us with some light entertainment.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
I forgot this thread was here, or I would have raised it from its tomb.
As it was, I was about to wonder aloud in Styx why some threads get promptly closed when there's a dumb, questionless, aimless musing posing as an OP, but MtM's are not. Having visited the Styx a few minutes ago, though, I think possibly This Is Not A Good Time.
Seriously, though, I've begun to worry 'bout the Mad Midshipman. Am I just unlucky in my thread-reading selections, or is Merlin sinking into a sort of permanent paranoia?
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
I just refreshed myself on the last 2 pages of the thread. Holy fuckmonkeys, MtM's done lost it. Perhaps he's attempting to fill the void left by the recent loss of another certain person who often appeared here...
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Not only paranoid, but an asshole too.
According to Merlin, if one actually has the poor judgment to attempt to understand his thinking, American tongues hang out, just like lab-rats, on red-white-and-blue prompts.
Only now the Cage Keepers are training us to hang our tongues out at grey-and-gold "world-think" prompts.
What a fucking jerk.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
It wouldn't bother me so much if we acknowledged in a reasonable way the objection people raise or answer the obvious questions (Why black and gold and not UN blue and white?) but he doesn't.
He cowardly dodges all the inconvenient questions.
Posted by Erin (# 2) on
:
Wow. That is some weapons-grade crazy right there. I wouldn't be surprised if he had regular arguments with the various air molecules in his room.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
is Merlin sinking into a sort of permanent paranoia?
Sinking? Reaching the level of mere paranoia would require a significant increase in buoyancy.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
It wouldn't bother me so much if we acknowledged in a reasonable way the objection people raise or answer the obvious questions (Why black and gold and not UN blue and white?) but he doesn't.
He cowardly dodges all the inconvenient questions.
On the Islam or mosque threads, he also tended to disappear when the evidence against his "arguments" (read "paranoid fantasies") mounts to hip-deep.
Given your NRA gem (and good on you for that, TjD -- that was brilliant), my guess is he'll lay low for a while.
[ 06. October 2010, 12:33: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
I dunno. He doesn't seem to be a "back-down" kind of guy. He's more likely to put his fingers in his ears and yell "La-la-la" than that.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
He cowardly dodges all the inconvenient questions.
To be fair, that M.O. covers a hell of a lot of other people on the Ship.
Posted by Mr Tambourine Man (# 15361) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Back when I wore my beard much longer, I was twice, in two different cities 25 miles apart, yelled at from a passing car to "go home to [my] own country."
Mousethief, I now have an image of you as the 4th member of ZZ Top. Please tell me it's true!
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
It was true at one time that I had a very long beard -- never longer than about 10" though. Currently it is fairly close-cropped due to my job-hunting activities. Maybe if I get a job again (deo volens) I can grow it long again.
Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
I dunno. He doesn't seem to be a "back-down" kind of guy. He's more likely to put his fingers in his ears and yell "La-la-la" than that.
Just glad I'm not in shooting range of him-wonder if he has 'ultima ratio merlini insani'carved on his gun stocks?
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
I see gays are the next target. Oh goody!
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
I see gays are the next target. Oh goody!
At least he had the insight to do it in Dead Horses.
Anyway, the argument that gays are promiscuous perverts who are single-handedly steering the entire immoral sexual revolution is such an old and tired one. It doesn't feel to me like it has enough Merlin-ness to be distinctive.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
There's no conspiracies involved.
Or not yet, anyway.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
Well, at least it's predictable. Whatever is the latest fauxrage in the right-wing blogosphere becomes a thread where he spins conspiracies and people ridicule him for it.
Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on
:
quote:
mousethief astonishes us:
It was true at one time that I had a very long beard -- never longer than about 10" though.
I see.
And you measured that thing starting from exactly where?
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
Tip of my chin. Why?
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on
:
I can't bear to post on max's latest thread without stuttering so I've come straight here where I can just fume and bit and hate him with equanimity.
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
Max? I thought he was banned some months ago. Is he back?
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
It wouldn't bother me so much if we acknowledged in a reasonable way the objection people raise or answer the obvious questions (Why black and gold and not UN blue and white?) but he doesn't.
He cowardly dodges all the inconvenient questions.
On the Islam or mosque threads, he also tended to disappear when the evidence against his "arguments" (read "paranoid fantasies") mounts to hip-deep.
He took the perfectly good statistics I posted and tried to twist them into a vast media conspiracy that, as far as I can tell, both sensationalizes GLBT people and proves they don't exist?
My head started hurting after the fourth loop-de-loop and I gave up trying to work through his arguments. He can spin on his own thumb down in DH for the rest of the week, I've got better things to do with my time.
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Max? I thought he was banned some months ago. Is he back?
No I'm just stupid and too incoherent to write 'Merlin'. some kind of Freudian slip...
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
It wouldn't bother me so much if we acknowledged in a reasonable way the objection people raise or answer the obvious questions (Why black and gold and not UN blue and white?) but he doesn't.
He cowardly dodges all the inconvenient questions.
On the Islam or mosque threads, he also tended to disappear when the evidence against his "arguments" (read "paranoid fantasies") mounts to hip-deep.
He took the perfectly good statistics I posted and tried to twist them into a vast media conspiracy that, as far as I can tell, both sensationalizes GLBT people and proves they don't exist?
My head started hurting after the fourth loop-de-loop and I gave up trying to work through his arguments. He can spin on his own thumb down in DH for the rest of the week, I've got better things to do with my time.
I am almost finding his posts unreadable nowadays. There is no theme or structure. They just off on a bunch of nonsensical tangents. He's a wingnut extraordinare.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
That's EXACTLY what gets me hooked every time: Messy Mind Syndrome. There's something about chaotic thinking (or whatever MtM's doing that passes for same) that just compels me to try to get the disordered, scattered, disconnected, random bits and pieces into some sort of coherent order.
I am clearly not up to sorting this and should go find a task containing the possibility of closure. Laundry, maybe?
Posted by leo (# 1458) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Taliesin:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Max? I thought he was banned some months ago. Is he back?
No I'm just stupid and too incoherent to write 'Merlin'. some kind of Freudian slip...
YOU are NOT stupid. Merlin is crass. Maz is NOT crass.
Posted by Louise (# 30) on
:
Alas, I am reminded of this cartoon where Donald Duck encounters Glenn Beck but without the happy ending.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Yup. Glenn Beck and Donald Duck sharing a single brain cell.
[ 13. October 2010, 23:09: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
Posted by iGeek (# 777) on
:
Dear God. Why doesn't he just get tired and go away. Such twaddle.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
I can't answer that, but I do wonder, given that every thread of his gets met with reactions ranging from outrage to ridicule (resulting in a more-or-less permanent Hell thread), what his goal, or reward, is in posting on the Ship?
Posted by Gurdur (# 857) on
:
A very necessary fact of life one needs to know is that some get pleasure out of making others angry, provoking a response.
There are others who provoke angry responses just to reassure themselves that the provoked party still loves them, but I doubt that fits here.
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I can't answer that, but I do wonder, given that every thread of his gets met with reactions ranging from outrage to ridicule (resulting in a more-or-less permanent Hell thread), what his goal, or reward, is in posting on the Ship?
Attention.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Gurdur:
A very necessary fact of life one needs to know is that some get pleasure out of making others angry, provoking a response.
When that takes place on the internet, isn't it awfully close to the definition of a troll?
Posted by Gurdur (# 857) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Gurdur:
A very necessary fact of life one needs to know is that some get pleasure out of making others angry, provoking a response.
When that takes place on the internet, isn't it awfully close to the definition of a troll?
You should know.
This being Hell, and you surprisingly asking me my opinion, I can say what I'm thinking: you need to grow up and get over yourself. That goes for Merlin the Mad as well.
Posted by Nicolemrw (# 28) on
:
Excuse me, having just waded through Merlin's trainwreck of a thread in dead horses, I feel the need to vent some primal rage. Pardon me while I scream.
AAAAAARERRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!
And hit my head a few times:
Thank you. I feel better now.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I can't answer that, but I do wonder, given that every thread of his gets met with reactions ranging from outrage to ridicule (resulting in a more-or-less permanent Hell thread), what his goal, or reward, is in posting on the Ship?
Attention.
Also, a sense of martyrdom. I can't think of the exact citation at the moment but I know there's at least one New Testament passage that says how blessed you are if people persecute you for speaking the truth.
Terribly loaded passage, of course, because everyone is so ready to believe it applies to THEM.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
To Gurdur:
I sincerely was trying to make what I saw were important points about the general nature of atheist-Christian discussion. Your responding "well *I* wouldn't do that so don't worry about it" was really rather beside the point. I wasn't referring to my discussion with you about discussion, so much as about the potential future discussions we were discussing.
Until your response to my second post, I had thought your posts on the ship had been very polite and to-the-point. It really didn't occur to me you would get all nasty like you did. Humorously, right after saying you wouldn't.
But your first response was responding to an issue I wasn't raising (how you personally would act), and didn't touch the issue I really was raising (how Christians and atheists would act in the type of discussion you were considering in the OP). As I said, I didn't have any concerns about how you would act (boy was I wrong!). Of course now that I've seen your own ability at scalding and scathing derision, it looks for all the world like you were talking bollocks before.
You are correct that the word "deceptive" was badly chosen, and I regret that. Indeed after I posted it my wife said "there could be other reasons for the discrepancy," and then I had to go run some errands and by the time I got back I had forgotten it. You could have pointed this out in a civilised fashion but chose not to. You have become another data point in the question, "If you scratch an atheist do you find scalding derision towards religious people?"
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Gurdur:
I am not interested. This thread/topic is my interest, and you already have my answers beforehand. Live with them.
That's strange. I thought he was interested in Christian-atheist discussion. Guess not as interested as he was making out -- at least not with a Christian that disagrees with him about something. That augurs well.
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
Back to Merlin: I'm with orfeo. There is a certain sort of Christianity which really gets hung up on quote:
Matthew 5:11-12 (New International Version)
11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
An insightful minister I once heard preach described it as "people who see other people as an opportunity to demonstrate what wonderful Christians they are, rather than seeing the actual person".
I remember this because it suddenly made perfectly clear why a certain person who never did anything wrong - was very devout - gave everybody in our parish the creeps. Including most (if not all) of the equally devout.
Posted by Liopleurodon (# 4836) on
:
jlg: thanks. That's an articulation of something which has been going around in my head about someone who provokes a similar response. I couldn't quite work out what it was.
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I can't answer that, but I do wonder, given that every thread of his gets met with reactions ranging from outrage to ridicule (resulting in a more-or-less permanent Hell thread), what his goal, or reward, is in posting on the Ship?
Attention.
Also, a sense of martyrdom. I can't think of the exact citation at the moment but I know there's at least one New Testament passage that says how blessed you are if people persecute you for speaking the truth.
Terribly loaded passage, of course, because everyone is so ready to believe it applies to THEM.
Such people would not recognize real persecution until they said "howdy" to the lions in the arena.
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by jlg:
An insightful minister I once heard preach described it as "people who see other people as an opportunity to demonstrate what wonderful Christians they are, rather than seeing the actual person".
I remember this because it suddenly made perfectly clear why a certain person who never did anything wrong - was very devout - gave everybody in our parish the creeps. Including most (if not all) of the equally devout.
YES!!! Except in my case, the person gave me the creeps but not most other people. I've had a hard time articulating just what the irritation was. Thank you!
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
:
Posted by MerlintheHomophobicMadman
quote:
Being gay isn't; but giving into it through sexual activity is the same as any other fornication
May I just pop down here to say that this is utter and complete bollocking bollocks. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
Thank you.
Posted by iGeek (# 777) on
:
He goes innanely on and on.
The sound you hear is of a throbbing headache.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
Isn't that what's it's all about? He'll just keep going, even contradicting himself, just to get the last post in, after he's worn everyone else out, to "win".
Posted by Louise (# 30) on
:
His posting style has kicked up a notch to a point which indicates to me that all is not well. Once someone gets to the stage where they're not really listening to others but trying to fit them into unpleasant stereotypes, so they can demonise their points of view, then there's really no point responding. I suggest leaving him alone. He will either get fed up or get dealt with by an admin eventually.
L.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
Or we could persuade him to move to Much Ado About Nothing and have a duel against himself. He's perfectly capable of taking both sides of an argument in order to win it, but it would be interesting to see if he can manage it without external cues.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
I'm coming to a theory that there's a certain partial pressure of crazy needed on the ship.
When Myrrh left a year or so ago, Dumpling Jeff started the nuttery quickly thereafter. Then he dissappeared (planked?), and Jamat had a few solid threads. Then Myrrh showed back up, and is gone again. Now it's Merlin filling the role.
There doesn't seem to be more than one person at a time really...but always is one.
Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
I'm coming to a theory that there's a certain partial pressure of crazy needed on the ship.
When Myrrh left a year or so ago, Dumpling Jeff started the nuttery quickly thereafter. Then he dissappeared (planked?), and Jamat had a few solid threads. Then Myrrh showed back up, and is gone again. Now it's Merlin filling the role.
There doesn't seem to be more than one person at a time really...but always is one.
Always flattered to be mentioned in illustrious company PJ. Would you care to elaborate?
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Always flattered to be mentioned in illustrious company PJ. Would you care to elaborate?
This should jog your memory:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000237
Contrary to my recollection though, you did not start the thread, and certainly weren't alone.
Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Merlin on his Liberalism thread in Purg
The entire world's climate toward democracy, civil rights (even individual ones as opposed to "collective" rights), invention, enterprise, PRODUCTIVITY, personal property, etc., all are caused by the existence of and the rise of the USofA. No other single nation in history has had a greater impact on these values than "we" have had.
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
sums up my reaction
I assume there is no point in asking for evidence to back any of this up.
I wonder if Merlin has heard of the Industrial Revolution? Or does he think that happened in the "USofA"?
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
:
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
I love my country, but this kind of chest puffing is ridiculous. We don't have to be the first, the bestest, and mostest and biggest to be proud of our country. Yeah, we participated in the Industrial Revolution early in its development but not alone. Yes, we were very helpful to our Allies during the World wars. Yes, we helped get the post-WWII world to a better start with the Marshall Plan. But what makes me proudest is when we recognize a fault, admit it, and work to fix it. Things like racism have locked people out of participation in civic life, but the pain of the experience that people have endured have produced brilliant arts and strong people along with the broken. I love my country because we are free to speak and free to make life up as we go along. Sometimes I wish we looked just a bit more at the future.
Posted by ToujoursDan (# 10578) on
:
quote:
We don't have to be the first, the bestest, and mostest and biggest to be proud of our country.
As a Canadian in the U.S. this aspect of American culture gives me the creeps. It reminds me of [fasten your seatbelts, we're going Godwin] Nazi Germany. Why do Americans always have to be #1 at everything and better than anyone else? I've never lived anywhere were this was just an ingrained national trait.
Even here in New York while the healthcare debate was raging several Americans asked me to give the "insider" perspective on Canadian healthcare. I tried to be even-handed as I could, and give its strengths and weakness, but when I came to the conclusion that it does the most good for the greatest number of people and I think it should be implemented here, the reaction was that I was somehow anti-American or brainwashed, or something. Nothing that happens in Canada could possibly be as good as in the U.S. (the other, equally odd reaction is that Canada is a Shangri-la. It's all very black or white.)
Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Always flattered to be mentioned in illustrious company PJ. Would you care to elaborate?
This should jog your memory:
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000237
Contrary to my recollection though, you did not start the thread, and certainly weren't alone.
Sorry. Your point is?
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Your point is?
Found in my original post. I did screw up though - instead of partial pressure I meant vapor pressure.
Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Your point is?
Found in my original post. I did screw up though - instead of partial pressure I meant vapor pressure.
Really? You sure the vapour didn't just originate with you?
Posted by iGeek (# 777) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by ToujoursDan:
As a Canadian in the U.S. this aspect of American culture gives me the creeps.
As a USAnian in the U.S. "American Exceptional-ism" gives me the creeps. It's even worse when wrapped in theocratic dominion-ism and the worst of flag-draped nationalistic impulses.
There's an underlying notion that because we're the USA, we shouldn't be subject to the same rules we expect everybody else to live by. I think that's a recipe for disaster. Recent events fortify that belief.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Your point is?
Found in my original post. I did screw up though - instead of partial pressure I meant vapor pressure.
Really? You sure the vapour didn't just originate with you?
You know, just because you share an avatar with SF doesn't mean you have to act like him.
Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Your point is?
Found in my original post. I did screw up though - instead of partial pressure I meant vapor pressure.
Really? You sure the vapour didn't just originate with you?
You know, just because you share an avatar with SF doesn't mean you have to act like him.
How does he act? It was my avatar first BTW but if it confuses anyone I'm happy to change it.
I'm a little annoyed by PJKirk ATM. There is a bit of back story from another thread and I also don't see why he shouldn't be called on why he feels free to denigrate shipmates who cannot or won't defend themselves right now.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
I'm a little annoyed by PJKirk ATM. There is a bit of back story from another thread and I also don't see why he shouldn't be called on why he feels free to denigrate shipmates who cannot or won't defend themselves right now.
If they won't, I don't care. If they can't, and one at least can't, then yeah, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned them specifically.
But be annoyed all you want. I can't be arsed to keep typing on this miniscule keyboard for tonight, so when I get home I might go into more depth. I think the lambasting you received on the other thread might be an indication of why I think you were filling the crazy void of the ship for a while.
Posted by Silver Faux (# 8783) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
Your point is?
Found in my original post. I did screw up though - instead of partial pressure I meant vapor pressure.
Really? You sure the vapour didn't just originate with you?
You know, just because you share an avatar with SF doesn't mean you have to act like him.
Now, now, mousethief, try to be nice; you might need a friend someday, and I'm pretty certain that you don't have any others aboard The Ship.
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
:
Lame.
Posted by Spiffy (# 5267) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
Now, now, mousethief, try to be nice; you might need a friend someday, and I'm pretty certain that you don't have any others aboard The Ship.
Don't be projecting your own issues on MT, SF.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
And I was going to say I agreed with SF on Tortuf's train wreck. Graceless, SF, as usual.
Posted by Silver Faux (# 8783) on
:
Mousie, you are the one who got all dressed up in your li'l red torodor outfit and waved a red flag in my face with the Avatar comment.
WTF were you expecting, a Hallmark Card?
Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
I'm a little annoyed by PJKirk ATM. There is a bit of back story from another thread and I also don't see why he shouldn't be called on why he feels free to denigrate shipmates who cannot or won't defend themselves right now.
If they won't, I don't care. If they can't, and one at least can't, then yeah, perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned them specifically.
But be annoyed all you want. I can't be arsed to keep typing on this miniscule keyboard for tonight, so when I get home I might go into more depth. I think the lambasting you received on the other thread might be an indication of why I think you were filling the crazy void of the ship for a while.
You weren't really part of that lambasting as I recall or did you crawl into the orchestra pit and ding the triangle?
And yes, you shouldn't have mentioned banned or suspended shipmates to denigrate them. It was an act of cowardice.
Posted by Taliesin (# 14017) on
:
To be honest, from where I'm standing it was less denigration than acknowledgement of a vital role... but worded to amuse - a backhanded compliment, if you will.
In any gathering, there are certain roles that have to be played out - it allows other people to free up other aspects. It's almost like ... how differently you would behave at a school reunion, to a professional gathering of peers. Or how differently one behaves in their parents home, to in their child's. If someone else is saying outrageous things, then I don't need to. But if no one is, maybe I need to get the ball rolling.
It's kind of Zen...
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
You weren't really part of that lambasting as I recall or did you crawl into the orchestra pit and ding the triangle?
There were enough people making it clear your arguments were idiotic in that thread already - I didn't need to pitch in much.
quote:
It was an act of cowardice.
Cowardice? On the internet? Hah! I believe I have called all of them idiots or nuts or sick in the head while here. I certainly did not wait for their departure.
I like your Zen connection Taliesin. It is odd though, and the more I think about it the more reinforced it is. There seems to almost always be *only* one person. Perhaps it's just how threads/issues happen though. It's just odd to see the (what seems to me) huge change in people like Merlin...he's gone from odd guy who makes one post slightly re-worded in every thread he participates in, to the current version, and see a similar trend in various posters.
Who knows...maybe I'll be the next crazy one?
Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on
:
quote:
PJKirk:your arguments were idiotic
If you want to discuss that further I'm happy to do so on the Noah's Flood thread in DH.
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
PJKirk:your arguments were idiotic
If you want to discuss that further I'm happy to do so on the Noah's Flood thread in DH.
When you've been proven wrong 10 times from many diverse fields of study, why should I expect you to suddenly turn on the critical thinking switch for the 11th?
Posted by pjkirk (# 10997) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
quote:
Originally posted by Jamat:
quote:
PJKirk:your arguments were idiotic
If you want to discuss that further I'm happy to do so on the Noah's Flood thread in DH.
When you've been proven wrong 10 times from many diverse fields of study, why should I expect you to suddenly turn on the critical thinking switch for the 11th?
Hmm...thinking further. If my little silly idea is true, maybe you would be now convinceable. Hmm....
Too bad I'm not so gullible as to believe my own ideas that often.
[ 01. November 2010, 03:39: Message edited by: pjkirk ]
Posted by infinite_monkey (# 11333) on
:
Can we please stop discussing what dumbasses various people on the Ship are and spend just a couple more minutes on the specific dumbassed-ness of the person honored on this thread?
I was gonna post this in Dead Horses, but I felt a bit more like Attacking the Person than Attacking the Issue here:
<walks in with intention to use Earth Logic in order to further positive debate about critical issues...> quote:
Originally posted by MerlintheMad: For instance, racial prejudice is never going to entirely vanish or even significantly diminish any further as long as sexual attraction is involved: simply because some races are repugnant in appearance...
< walks out.>
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by infinite_monkey:
<walks in with intention to use Earth Logic in order to further positive debate about critical issues...> quote:
Originally posted by MerlintheMad: For instance, racial prejudice is never going to entirely vanish or even significantly diminish any further as long as sexual attraction is involved: simply because some races are repugnant in appearance...
< walks out.>
Oh my dear sweet holy infant lowly infant mild.
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
:
You did well to walk out infinite_monkey - I thank God that I don't know amyone with such a repugnent and blatantly wrongheaded attitude as MtM's in RL.
I suppose it's a reminder that such beliefs still exist.
MtM - you show your bigotry and prejudice every time you post.
The only relief, to me, is that you are a tiny minority which will soon be extinct.
[ 04. November 2010, 05:35: Message edited by: Boogie ]
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
I was going to try and give Merlin some credit and re-word that post to a 'what I meant was...'
Then realised that was probably giving more credit than was due. Half the reason that Dead Horses thread exists is because Merlin can't distinguish between the subjective "you don't do it for me personally" and the objective "you're inherently inferior".
[ 04. November 2010, 06:19: Message edited by: orfeo ]
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I thank God that I don't know amyone with such a repugnent and blatantly wrongheaded attitude as MtM's in RL.
Given that we're talking about a complete racist douchebag, d'ya think we could avoid acronyms that might lead people to associate that description with the wrong shipmate?
Please?
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I thank God that I don't know amyone with such a repugnent and blatantly wrongheaded attitude as MtM's in RL.
Given that we're talking about a complete racist douchebag, d'ya think we could avoid acronyms that might lead people to associate that description with the wrong shipmate?
Please?
Oh yes, I was referring to Merlinthemadracist - sorry Marvin!
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
This
some races are repugnant in appearance
beggars belief. Well, actually, given the source, maybe not. What beggars belief is the fact that someone who not only manages to HOLD this view in this day and age and place is also clueless enough to express it.
[ 04. November 2010, 11:31: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
Posted by Mr Clingford (# 7961) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I thank God that I don't know amyone with such a repugnent and blatantly wrongheaded attitude as MtM's in RL.
Given that we're talking about a complete racist douchebag, d'ya think we could avoid acronyms that might lead people to associate that description with the wrong shipmate?
Please?
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
But as you're such a monstrous Tory, is it the wrong idea?
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
:
Fuck off, clingfilm.
Posted by sharkshooter (# 1589) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by pjkirk:
...
Who knows...maybe I'll be the next crazy one?
Who knows...did you go off your meds, too?
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
What a waste of bandwidth. The asshole drops the race-bomb, goes off for a bit while others express outrage, and then comes back to say, "Oh, dear me, no, not me -- I don't believe those dreadful things." Confront him with his own words and he claims that's not what he meant: "Those are the views of all kinds of other people." He does it over and over.
Merlin's not a homophobic twat -- it's all those OTHER people who are, and we might as well bow to the pressure they exert.
Merlin's not a racist turd -- it's all those OTHER people who are repelled by differing eye-folds or skin-color or skull-shapes.
He slides around from one position to another like ice cream on a car fender in a Death Valley heat wave, exhibiting all the sincerity of a starlet on a casting couch.
What a sneaky, mealy-mouthed, dishonest, manipulative creep.
[ 04. November 2010, 23:33: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
I have just read Merlin's attempt to dig himself out of the racist hole he dug and then crawled into.
You've got to admire his persistence in attempting to maintain a position by restating it, without the more offensive terms, but he's outed himself, once and for all.
It won't be forgotten.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
On the other hand, it does seem to get ignored.
Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on
:
Merlin, I don't know if you have been following this thread but just on the off-chance that you have I would ask if you remember the late 1970s, the era of Punk?
Do you perhaps remember John Cooper Clarke, the Punk Poet from Salford? He was well known for a while and still makes appearances on stage in Britain.
I am thinking of him as one of his more acidic works is about some poor unfortunate who was not particularly popular and who was attacked and lambasted from every side. It includes the line:
quote:
They haven't got a good word for you, but I have...
...TWAT!
QED
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
What do you call it when someone uses irony - saying the opposite of what they mean - but it's not done for comic effect, it's just because of complete incompetence in constructing logical arguments?
Merlin's doing it at least a couple of times per post.
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
What do you call it when someone uses irony - saying the opposite of what they mean - but it's not done for comic effect, it's just because of complete incompetence in constructing logical arguments?
Merlin's doing it at least a couple of times per post.
You don't call it anything, you just quietly despair and give up hope of ever understanding them.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Oh, I don't know. Looks to me like various posters on this thread understand Merlin forwards, backwards, sideways, and inside out.
The "no understanding" clause applies to Merlin himself, and that's what we despair of.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
What do you call it when someone uses irony - saying the opposite of what they mean - but it's not done for comic effect, it's just because of complete incompetence in constructing logical arguments?
I don't know; if somebody is being ironic without intending to be, that's kind of ironic.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
What do you call it when someone uses irony - saying the opposite of what they mean - but it's not done for comic effect, it's just because of complete incompetence in constructing logical arguments?
I don't know; if somebody is being ironic without intending to be, that's kind of ironic.
Meta-ironic?
Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on
:
It's called "back pedaling".
Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on
:
Three times I have asked Merlin whether he really thinks homophobia is biologically determined as he appears to have claimed. Three times he has replied telling me his views on homosexuality. Am I doing something wrong? Is he failing to read for comprehension? Or is he deliberately not answering the question I am asking?
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
Three times I have asked Merlin whether he really thinks homophobia is biologically determined as he appears to have claimed. Three times he has replied telling me his views on homosexuality. Am I doing something wrong? Is he failing to read for comprehension? Or is he deliberately not answering the question I am asking?
To answer your questions: no, no, yes.
Merlin knows exactly what he is doing. His method is to wind people up (not trolling at all) and he delights in setting up arguments then diverting the discussion. He's actually very smart, but I can't see any use for him.
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
...I can't see any use for him.
Amen. I give up (not in). I'm getting a headache from
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Merlin knows exactly what he is doing. His method is to wind people up (not trolling at all) and he delights in setting up arguments then diverting the discussion. He's actually very smart, but I can't see any use for him.
Really? Are you sure he's not just too stupid to breathe?
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Merlin knows exactly what he is doing. His method is to wind people up (not trolling at all) and he delights in setting up arguments then diverting the discussion. He's actually very smart, but I can't see any use for him.
Really? Are you sure he's not just too stupid to breathe?
He's certainly smart enough to breathe: it's an involuntary act IIRC and 'oxygen thief' is a pretty accurate description of him.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Well, you've been around longer than I have, you've had more experience; you may be right.
But I still think he's a few dangles short of a chandelier. B&W thinking; sweeping generalizations; inability to imagine or empathize with The Other.
Sad, really.
Posted by dj_ordinaire (# 4643) on
:
And a curious addiction to inverted commas, as well. I know it's a trivial point in the midst of all the hateful confused twaddle, but it just annoys me...
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
But I still think he's a few dangles short of a chandelier. B&W thinking; sweeping generalizations; inability to imagine or empathize with The Other.
It's either that or he simply can't write for nuts.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Or clarity, either. ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
Maybe he thinks he can convert people to his wingnuttery through misdirection?
[ 14. November 2010, 21:57: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Maybe he thinks he can convert people to his wingnuttery through misdirection?
I think you might be onto something there. That might be what all the ducking and weaving is about. Try a proposition, if that gets knocked down, modify something and see if it now becomes more reasonable. Above all, do not say what you really mean in any more than 1 post in 3, lest your prey figure it out.
He really does seem entirely reasonable on occasion. But that's only when you read little snippets in isolation, not the great overwhelming and constantly shifting tide of jetsam.
Posted by Rossweisse. (# 2349) on
:
He once called me "an Enemy." I think now that perhaps that should be a point of pride.
Posted by jlg (# 98) on
:
Which is when it's time to remind everyone once again that all these posts simply feed the beast.
Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse.:
He once called me "an Enemy." I think now that perhaps that should be a point of pride.
Ooh. Any tips on your successful method for achieving Enemy status?
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Well, I can't help with that question. I have one of my own, though: is Merlin's sudden silence a sign that he's reading, digesting, and working on changing his posting style?
Or is he simply trying to work out yet another way to re-frame prejudice in more politically-acceptable verbal garb, assuming we're all too dim to notice?
Posted by TonyK (# 35) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
Well, I can't help with that question. I have one of my own, though: is Merlin's sudden silence a sign that he's reading, digesting, and working on changing his posting style?
Or is he simply trying to work out yet another way to re-frame prejudice in more politically-acceptable verbal garb, assuming we're all too dim to notice?
No- he's simply spending far too much of his spare time writing loooong posts in DH to have any excess capacity to waste here
Posted by Rossweisse. (# 2349) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Ooh. Any tips on your successful method for achieving Enemy status?
Confront him, on a regular basis, with inconvenient facts which refute his looneytoon assertions, and back them up with lots of sources. He'll be furious - and then he'll go silent, until his next wacko attack.
It also helps to be an uppity woman in this case, of course.
Posted by Huia (# 3473) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse.:
He once called me "an Enemy." I think now that perhaps that should be a point of pride.
Well done. That should be worn with the same pride as the "bad monkey" medal from Shirley Phelps-Roper.
I have just caught up with the Dead Horse thread, having read the last 3 pages in one sitting and and off to have a lie down.
Shouldn't hosting Dead Horses and having to read all Merlin's posts be covered under the Geneva Convention as a cruel and unusual punishment?
Huia
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Probably. Personally, I've learned to check this thread before checking the DH one.
Posted by Rossweisse. (# 2349) on
:
Here - help yourself to the brain bleach!
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
Shouldn't hosting Dead Horses and having to read all Merlin's posts be covered under the Geneva Convention as a cruel and unusual punishment?
It certainly deserves a medal and large amounts of chocolate.
Posted by Apocalypso (# 15405) on
:
Ewww -- chocolate and brain bleach don't mix!
Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
Shouldn't hosting Dead Horses and having to read all Merlin's posts be covered under the Geneva Convention as a cruel and unusual punishment?
It certainly deserves a medal and large amounts of chocolate.
You're absolutely right, and it's about fuckin' time somebody gave team DH the love they deserve.
Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on
:
to the DH team! (I'm told it's all you need.)
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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The Beatles said, "All you need is love"
And then they broke up!
--Larry Norman
Posted by QJ (# 14873) on
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Thank goodness for so many people having the opportunity to blast someone and for the ability to put it so nicely.
In america, life is so expensive that it has become hard to help people out when they have gotten themselves into economic trouble.
I know a family who lives humbly but their kids have internet service and cell phones. They get all sorts of assistance from many sources. They love God and their fellow man and are a blessing to the community. We have helped them out in various ways so they could get by.
If the goverment will give people help why would they not take it?
If the church will give people help why should they not take it?
I am amazed at how angry christians will get, myself included, and it's as if we are reaching out to prove we are spiritual by doing and saying things we know better than to say. Mostly all i prove is that i am dull of hearing and thought and God is gracious.
I hope that everyone out there will find work of some sort and can pay their bills. I hope that kids get enough to eat each day. we like to give to the Salvation Army and Food For The Poor among others. we choose to support those sorts of things. i don't really choose where my tax dollars are spent, they just take the money and give it away.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
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Nah, all things considered I don't think that post was worth dragging the thread up from the depths for.
If (when?) Merlin posts more stupid shit someone can start a new thread for it.
This one go bye-bye now.
Marvin
Hellhost
Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on
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We were working at the Same Time. I moved his (QJ's) post to AS in the How to economize thread.
That said, I agree with you about this thread.
PeteC
The Really Nice Hellhost
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