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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hell: Merlin the Mad: anti-American & anti-Christian piece of dogshit
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
You want children to starve. You'd better pray to God in heaven that your judgment isn't for Jesus to repay the steaming pile of corn-infested shit that you just deposited on his head. But I think it will be, and I will laugh to see it.
The best part of you dribbled down your mama's leg.
[ 05. January 2015, 23:46: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Link?
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) Runs and hides
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I know there are lots of pleasant and intelligent people in Utah.
MerlintheSad isn't one of them though.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Link?
Runs and hides
This post. Basically, hungry children is how he wants to punish their lazy unemployed parents. Anyway, I only opened this thread because it was post that here or in Purgatory, and, well, I'm supposed to set an example. I'm all better now. But Merlin can die of starvation and I think it would be OK.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Duo Seraphim
Ubi caritas et amor
# 256
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Posted
I had a look at the stats on hunger in the US including child hunger in other pages on the site MerlintheBad was dribbling about.
According to the charity Feeding America 1 in 4 American childrenlive in households where the food supply isn't secure. I couldn't care if the parents are the worst bums on the planet - no child should live in a household where there isn't enough food for an active healthy life for all members of the household.
The USDA report on Household Food Security, from which Feeding America gets its figures states that the rates of household food insecurity have increased significantly since 2007 and are the highest since 1995; see here.
Charity - real charity - doesn't enquire about the moral worth of its recipients, merely that they are in need. Now that might mean that some so-called "undeserving" poor might be seen to skive off the charity. So what? The important things is that the needy are fed. I utterly fail to see how that judgment can ever be applied to children, nor how their malnutrition or even starvation could ever be justified in the name of small government.
Sickening.
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Embrace the serious whack. It's the Catholic thing to do. IngoB
The Messiah, Peace be upon him, said to his Apostles: 'Verily, this world is merely a bridge, so cross over it, and do not make it your abode.' (Bihar al-anwar xiv, 319)
Posts: 7952 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
"Working Poor"--Wikipedia.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Maybe Merlin can donate to my local city, county, or state government so they can afford to hire me to do something around here that needs to be done (there's plenty, I'm sure). Sadly all these governments are laying people off because the anti-tax brigade (gee, I wonder where Merlin stands on that spectrum?) have gutted their budgets.
I'd love to have a job, Merlin. I've applied for everything from what I really do (database programming) down to secretary and janitor and everything in between. So it's not that I'm too proud for any given job. I just finished a stint with the census bureau (did you do your census? or are you one of those anti-government freaks that refused to?) but now that's over. Find me a job if you think they're so plentiful. PM me once you have an interview lined up.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
"Working Poor"--Wikipedia.
"Playing by the rules But Losing the Game: America's Working Poor"--Urban Institute.
This is about 10 years old, but well documented, with easy-to-read stats.
Hosts/Admins--sorry about my extraneous post above this one. Technical glitch.
[ 29. June 2010, 06:07: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Link?
Runs and hides
This post. Basically, hungry children is how he wants to punish their lazy unemployed parents. Anyway, I only opened this thread because it was post that here or in Purgatory, and, well, I'm supposed to set an example. I'm all better now. But Merlin can die of starvation and I think it would be OK.
Anti-American? Depends what kind of American. Merlin reads like Rush Limbaugh talks. That insatiate walrus suggested poor kids 'dumpster dive' so America can save money by not providing free meals at school for impoverished households.
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erin:
I'm all better now.
Ah. A neat example straight out of the book of Yorick’s Guide to Managing Females, (Chapter VII: The Angered Woman):
quote:
Despite the perfectly natural apprehension one might feel in the moment, there is never any need to concern oneself with the angered woman. Simply permit her to squawk and flap about for forty-five minutes to an hour, and she will completely exhaust herself and return to a more placid state of civility all on her own. On no account place a spoon or other hard object in her mouth, slap her across the face, or engage with her in conversation (however ameliorative) during this time- as this will only provoke further anger (cf. Chapter IV: Avoiding Eye Contact).
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این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Yorick, if you want your own Hell thread, there'll be no shortage of people to oblige, but right now it's looking a little greedy.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
Ah, I was wondering who would call MerlinTheMad to hell for that thread. Personally I find Merlin a superb moral guide; if there's anything I agree with him about I check my assumptions very carefully. The rest of the time I just assume he's Bizzarro and whatever he says is good he really means evil.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
Why should we feed the children of poor families? (Leaving aside the teachings of some guy or another about 2000 years ago.)
If they are malnourished as children they will be problem citizens as adults because of long term effects of malnutrition and the antisocial behavior that comes with poverty and starvation. They might even have to be fed in prison.
If we do not keep the working class alive unemployment will go down and wage pressure will go up, fueling inflation.
It would make shitheads like Rush and Merlin happy.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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monkeylizard
Ship's scurvy
# 952
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Posted
I've re-read the linked post 3 times and still can't see where MtM says he wants children to starve. He references adult-aged children living at home, and he says private, voluntary charity is a more efficient vehicle for providing assistance than government. None of this is out of line with his well known view that systemic government support creates systemic dependence on said government. But none of it says he wants kids to starve. He may or may not think that, but it's not in the post.
His one line in the post that states quote:
"But what about the CHILDREN?"
appears to be facetious, in that many election issue/tax increase are justified (at least at local levels) by that sentiment. I didn't take it to mean he wants children to starve, but that it's the overused tag line meant to be guilt-inducing to justify the expansion of government.
I understand that if government-funded support ended suddenly, then many more people would be poor and homeless. Is that where the "MtM wants children to starve" comes from?
If so, quote:
every time "We The People" turn this responsibility for our neighbors over to Gov't we have abrogated that responsibility.
seems to be a direct call for action for each of us to get involved with charitable activities. That it's the responsibility of the neighbor, of the community to take care of one another. He's proposing a different way to provide for the starving children, not to leave them to die.
What did I miss?
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. ~ Herbert Spencer (1820 - 1903)
Posts: 2201 | From: Music City, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
... he says private, voluntary charity is a more efficient vehicle for providing assistance than government.
This may be true, but ensuring that children eat is not a matter of charity, but rather one of justice. This is why a benefits system should go as far as it can to ensure that children eat, are dressed and are housed as a matter of right not as a result of "charity".
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
What did I miss?
From a 'self-righteous Statist sycophant' perspective yours is an epic fail.
Speculating further, you have bothered to adequately provide for yourself which has created 'arrogance' and a strong desire to see innocent children starve.
You are, in short, an 'asshole'.
Hope that helps.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
Your powers of reading comprehension are thoroughly underwhelming.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
I remain undeterred.
Great thread, BTW.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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monkeylizard
Ship's scurvy
# 952
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Posted
I didn't say I agreed with Merlin. I just don't see where he says that he wants children to go hungry. That may be an end result of what he proposed, but I'm not sure that he thinks it would be.
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The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. ~ Herbert Spencer (1820 - 1903)
Posts: 2201 | From: Music City, USA | Registered: Jul 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
So it's not that I'm too proud for any given job.
Allow me to recommend Walmart. Many years ago I had a family to support and inexplicably my brilliance with prose failed to convince any number of potential employers of my worth.
I started as an hourly employee (yes, their unbridled ignorance failing to appreciate the value of my Psychology BS rankled a bit, but I was in sore need). Not long after though I was promoted to 'management' and even in the interim I paid the bills.
I made a lot of sacrifices which, frankly, had I not been the 'breadwinner' I would have been unwilling to make.
Anyway, it all worked out; by the time I left the company (not quite 15 years later) my total package was north of six figures and my inherent frugality had positioned me to move on to what is next.
You too, I believe, could benefit from working for that remarkable company.
I'm guessing the only real question is how serious you are about stepping up to the plate.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
205, I frankly and simply do not believe you.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
205, I frankly and simply do not believe you.
It's your choice to decide whether what I write here has any credibility.
You of all people can understand why someone posting in this forum might be reticent to reveal too much.
Whatever. I might need some good help in Cañon City. If you know of anyone willing to make sacrifices like that.
GOD DAMN the SoF has gotten under my skin.
And well done, Simon and all. I hope you're at least breaking even.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 205:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
205, I frankly and simply do not believe you.
It's your choice to decide whether what I write here has any credibility.
Yes. I have.
quote:
Whatever. I might need some good help in Cañon City. If you know of anyone willing to make sacrifices like that.
And here's just one example of why.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
Last week when I was there arranging things I didn't get my PO Box set up; God willing I anticipate doing that no later than next Tuesday.
If you want I'll PM it to you but I'll be busy so it may not happen until late next week.
Have a good day!
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
205, did you know they were hiring a couple Wal-Mart positions in my town here a couple months ago?
Part time cashiers. Two of them. Less than 20 hours a week.
They received over 1,000 applications.
At my job, our recent receptionist hiring post received 418 applications, including some folks with Ph.D.s
Anyone who has a job right now should be thanking their blessed stars and shutting their damnfool mouths.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
205, you ought to sell out to me.
I started as a rubbish collector a few years ago, but by frugality and opportunism pretty soon owned a fleet of trucks and acted as an outsourcing company for the council. I now have a 7-figure salary, more profit than I know what to do with, and am looking to acquire new companies. I could do with yours and I'll make it worth your while.
Just hang on a week or two and I'll set up an anonymous address for you to write to about it.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Here's my personal favorite bit:
I can show you a subsistence level household where THREE out of the six children are adult-aged and living off their single mom's Social Security pittance and food stamps: they get enough to eat and feel almost no motivation to get a job. The reason is because they are given free food. If they were hungry they'd be motivated to get a job and buy groceries!
1. Mewling-the-Mad appears to be basing his recommended policy on activity in ONE household, and anecdotally at that. What does he really know of these people's circumstances?
2. As noted by others, jobs are not so easily come by these days.
3. The notion that adult children will be motivated by hunger to look for work is laughable. Adult children plagued by hunger will probably just move out, in search of greener pastures. The Ma in question may be feeding them precisely to keep them around; she may need other kinds of help from them, esp. if the Social Security she gets is disability-related.
Mewling is an excellent example of why private charity doesn't work.
ETA: food stamp allotments vary state to state; if the woman is in her 60s, she'd get around $65 a month in food stamps on her own account where I live -- barely enough to feed erself, far less six children.
[ 29. June 2010, 21:44: Message edited by: Apocalypso ]
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Jonathan Strange
Shipmate
# 11001
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Posted
And what about the other three children? Would Merlin throw them under the bus so that he could stick it to the 'lazy' three? Apparently so.
[eta: to add the point of what I was trying to say]
[ 29. June 2010, 21:50: Message edited by: Jonathan Strange ]
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"Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight,
At the sound of his roar, sorrows will be no more,
When he bears his teeth, winter meets its death,
When he shakes his mane, we shall have spring again"
Posts: 1327 | From: Wessex | Registered: Feb 2006
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Er -- sorry -- that's about $65 per month, for those not familiar with the program. Most of the people on my caseload live on combinations of various public assistance programs plus part-time work if they can get it.
All of them are poor.
And because of them, I am fortunate enough to be employed full-time.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
If private charity "worked" we wouldn't have publicly-funded charity.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
I think if we're honest, neither form of charity really "works," except as a temporary palliative.
For individuals like those on my caseload, whose poverty results from permanent disability, and whose disabilities sometimes (by no means always, or even most of the time) result from other people's actions, it's hard to know how to respond.
But surely writing such people off as not worth our care and concern, either individually or societally, is not a moral option -- at least, not until we complete our current apparent descent into decivilization.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Duo Seraphim
Ubi caritas et amor
# 256
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sine Nomine:
A modest proposal...
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Jonathan Swift - as cutting a satirist now as he was in 1729.
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Embrace the serious whack. It's the Catholic thing to do. IngoB
The Messiah, Peace be upon him, said to his Apostles: 'Verily, this world is merely a bridge, so cross over it, and do not make it your abode.' (Bihar al-anwar xiv, 319)
Posts: 7952 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I think if we're honest, neither form of charity really "works," except as a temporary palliative.
I'm sure people who continue to eat, or live indoors, because of "temporary palliatives" are less concerned about the philosophical implications.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Duo Seraphim
Ubi caritas et amor
# 256
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
I didn't say I agreed with Merlin. I just don't see where he says that he wants children to go hungry. That may be an end result of what he proposed, but I'm not sure that he thinks it would be.
OK let me assist. I've bolded the references to "children" in the first paragraph of MerlintheBad's post in Purgatory, noting that it was a response to the Feeding America site and USDA report, as is also clear from the context:
quote:
These kinds of studies never address the CAUSE of the increase in hunger. They label "insecure" households, where children are not provided with a secure food supply. They show percentages of WIC and food stamps and other programs giving "free" food, especially during the summer. Yet the bottom line is that workers are providing for those who don't work. I can show you a subsistence level household where THREE out of the six children are adult-aged and living off their single mom's Social Security pittance and food stamps: they get enough to eat and feel almost no motivation to get a job. The reason is because they are given free food. If they were hungry they'd be motivated to get a job and buy groceries! "But what about the CHILDREN?" So the Gov't supplies freebies to meet a growing problem and well-meaning asses put working class people on a guilt trip because there are still "hungry" children.
Only MerlintheBad's anecdote refers to adult children. If three of the six children in the anecdotal example were adult age, it must follow that the other three were not. Yet they were supposed to have food aid cut off too. Children under adult age are candidates for school, not the full time workforce. That's before we get to the question of whether work was available for any of them.
Of course we could repeal the child labour laws in the name of smaller government. After all my paternal grandfather left school for the tin foundry at the age of 11. In other words he completed primary school only. His family needed the money. Shame that he needed my grandmother to fill in forms for him, being largely illiterate. My father won a scholarship to grammar school until he was 15. When that ran out, there was no money to keep him there, so he joined the Merchant Navy. He at least got the opportunity, thanks to the benefactor who set up the scholarship and his energy and desire to learn (plus his good use of the Carnegie Library in Llanelli). Otherwise he'd have been down at the tin foundry at 11 too. That's what poverty does.
One anecdote for another...
Children under 15-16 at the youngest (more like 18) shouldn't be part of the work force (and I'm not talking about a paper round or a holiday job here). They should be in full time education or apprenticed and learning a trade. If their parents can't provide food for them, they must be fed. Simple social justice.
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Embrace the serious whack. It's the Catholic thing to do. IngoB
The Messiah, Peace be upon him, said to his Apostles: 'Verily, this world is merely a bridge, so cross over it, and do not make it your abode.' (Bihar al-anwar xiv, 319)
Posts: 7952 | From: Sydney Australia | Registered: Aug 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
FYI: Merlin said similar things earlier in the thread. It wasn't just this one post.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
205, you ought to sell out to me.
I'm open to the idea but am just now getting started in my latest venture; closing date is 7.7.2010. You'll understand my intention is to build this thing to a 'turnkey operation' which will, by most 'business valuation' standards, increase the value significantly.
That said to say this: plan on having access to funds somewhere in the range of 400k US and PM in a year or so. As you know, finding qualified buyers is the most challenging part in transactions like this.
quote:
I started as a rubbish collector a few years ago, but by frugality and opportunism pretty soon owned a fleet of trucks and acted as an outsourcing company for the council. I now have a 7-figure salary, more profit than I know what to do with, and am looking to acquire new companies. I could do with yours and I'll make it worth your while.
Just hang on a week or two and I'll set up an anonymous address for you to write to about it.
Now the only question becomes do I post my telephone number... hmmm. I don't really need one in this area code anymore and it may have entertainment value.
Let me get back to you.
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
205, did you know they were hiring a couple Wal-Mart positions in my town here a couple months ago?
Part time cashiers. Two of them. Less than 20 hours a week.
They received over 1,000 applications.
All the more reason mousethief, with his incomparable intelligence and humility (just ask him if you doubt), should go there and wow 'em.
All those other idiots will pale in comparison.
(BTW, now is the time for the hordes to start slavering onto their keyboards telling me how arrogant I am; thanks in advance for your contribution.)
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
OK, OK... once again I stand corrected.
mousethief's relentless 'persona' (combined with his apparent 'true' existence) hooked me. I now realize (once and for all / note to self) he can't really believe a fraction of the stuff he posts; no one could.
My bad, and to anyone who has been offended by my waste of bandwidth, my apology.
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by monkeylizard:
If so, quote:
every time "We The People" turn this responsibility for our neighbors over to Gov't we have abrogated that responsibility.
seems to be a direct call for action for each of us to get involved with charitable activities. That it's the responsibility of the neighbor, of the community to take care of one another. He's proposing a different way to provide for the starving children, not to leave them to die.
Yes but who in their right mind really thinks that enough people will take action to provide sufficient support for all those that need it?
If Merlin really thinks that could be an adequate solution he is even more deluded than I thought.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
You've got to remember that Merlin is a Mormon (of a sort). They do actually have a private work-fare system for their ranks supported by church taxes/tithes. Whether it is as efficient as advertised, I don't know. Anyway, he has an example of significant private charity in his life.
But that still doesn't excuse his butt-headed belief that children should suffer for their parents' reputed sins of sloth.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Erin
Meaner than Godzilla
# 2
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Posted
Well they didn't provide enough private charity for him that he didn't end up on Medicaid, so he can suck it.
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Commandment number one: shut the hell up.
Posts: 17140 | From: 330 miles north of paradise | Registered: Mar 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Ah. I sense an irregular verb:
I'm being assisted in my time of need.
You are on welfare.
They are a bunch of welfare queens.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Apocalypso:
I think if we're honest, neither form of charity really "works," except as a temporary palliative.
I'm sure people who continue to eat, or live indoors, because of "temporary palliatives" are less concerned about the philosophical implications.
Maybe, maybe not.
I recently assisted an individual in applying for local assistance; he had lost his 12-hour-per-week job and needed help purchasing food. Here's what happened:
He phoned (from my office; he does not have a phone himself) for an appointment with City Welfare and was informed that no appointments could be made by phone. His personal transportation is by bicycle; public transport in this area is sketchy-to-nonexistent; handicap transport is now available (due to budget cuts) only to people with walking disabilities (his are cognitive and psychiatric). This office is located 8 miles each way from his home.
My caseload budget, due to state budget shortfalls, has been sharply cut; I am no longer allowed to drive my clients anywhere except in medical emergencies not requiring an ambulance (and what those might be, exactly, has yet to be determined).
He bicycled to the office and was told he could not have an appointment until he filled out "some paperwork." He has an IQ of about 75 and reads and writes at about the level of a late first-early second grader.
He filled out a 2-page form with some help from the office staff. In exchange, he was granted an appointment for Monday morning (he was applying on a Friday afternoon) and handed a 12-page application for assistance, which included requests for various documentation, some of which go back more than a decade.
Among the documents required were bank statements, copy of lease, copies of divorce papers (he was once married, his cognitive issues having been acquired through TBI following an accident in early adulthood), copies of his application to the state welfare office for food stamps and to the state office of unemployment for unemployment compensation, and several other items I cannot now recall. The offices where he could obtain copies of all this data -- he lacks the ability to maintain records on his own) are widely scattered throughout his city.
Upshot: he had neither time nor strength to gather this documentation (on bicycle, remember) by the time of his Monday morning appointment, offices being closed (including my own) from 4:30 Friday afternoon to 8:30 Monday morning. He did not have the approximately $35 in cash needed to pay for copies of all these documents. Had he had this money, he would not be in need of a temporary food voucher.
When he arrived at my office Monday morning in a panic, he had had nothing to eat since the previous morning -- some dry cereal.
When the smoke cleared and I got things straightened out and he got his temporary food voucher to tide him over until food stamps kick in, it was for $25.
Like you, I am sure he was not "concerned about the philosophical implications" of his experience.
I am equally certain that he is not especially grateful for the "help" received, either.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
You've got to remember that Merlin is a Mormon (of a sort). They do actually have a private work-fare system for their ranks supported by church taxes/tithes. Whether it is as efficient as advertised, I don't know. Anyway, he has an example of significant private charity in his life.
What is the difference between paying taxes to the government to feed the hungry, care for the sick etc and paying taxes to the church to do the same? How can one be abrogating our responsibility for our neighbour and the other not?
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
He'd probably say that one doesn't have to be a Mormon and therefore tithe, while he has to pay taxes to a welfare system he doesn't approve of.
Or so I'd guess.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
What is the difference between paying taxes to the government to feed the hungry, care for the sick etc and paying taxes to the church to do the same?
The stock answer would be that one can freely choose whether or not to join a church.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Squibs
Shipmate
# 14408
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by 205:
Allow me to recommend Walmart...
Off topic, but you might be interested in reading
Nickel and Dimed
Posts: 1124 | From: Here, there and everywhere | Registered: Dec 2008
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Also (by the same author) Bait and Switch and This Land is Their Land.
And William Greider's Come Home, America.
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Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
What is the difference between paying taxes to the government to feed the hungry, care for the sick etc and paying taxes to the church to do the same?
The stock answer would be that one can freely choose whether or not to join a church.
As one is free to choose whether or not to live in a country. After all, there are places in the world with no income tax.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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