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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: HEAVEN: Feb 2016 Book Discussion - A Spool of Blue Thread by Anne Tyler
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
February's Ship of Fools book is A Spool of Blue Thread by Anne Tyler. As usual I'll post some questions on or around the 20th.
[ 24. March 2016, 09:24: Message edited by: Firenze ]
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
I read it fairly recently so hopefully will remember it well enough to participate in discussion.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
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starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25
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Posted
I read this last year on holiday, so will be able to join in!
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
I read it last year and have recently bought the paperback so look forward to re reading it.
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
I, too, read it last year and look forward to discussing it.
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Just bumping this up a bit, in case anyone missed it, and is interested in joining in this month. To keep you going here is an interview with Anne Tyler from 2012 with The Guardian. There is a more recent one, but as that is publicising A Spool of Blue Thread there are spoilers, so I didn't link to that.
I find it interesting to read what she says about Baltimore. The Baltimore of her books (I've read a few) seems very 'true' but then so does the Baltimore of The Wire , although they are very different places.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
I would like to join in and have just ordered a copy ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Landlubber
Shipmate
# 11055
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Posted
Having dipped a toe in the water, I would like to join in again. I am about to order an ebook, but family members need a lot of my time this month so apologies if I don't finish it in time.
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They that go down to the sea in ships … reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Just bumping this up to remind people I'll be posting a few questions on Saturday. they'll be pretty open ended so don't worry if you haven't finished the book yet, or indeed not started and fancy joining in.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
A couple of questions to get everyone started. I'm still re-reading the book, so will post more when I've finished. Feel free to add your own questions.
1. What do you think about the plotting? Does it feel like a series of random anecdotes, or is there a narrative 'a spool of blue thread' running through it?
2. Anne Tyler's books, though different from each other are all set in the same place and tend to feautre characters from the same social class, often with troubled children or marriages. Do you find that irritating, comforting or something else?
3. If you've read a few of her books, do you have a favourite?
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarasa:
1. What do you think about the plotting? Does it feel like a series of random anecdotes, or is there a narrative 'a spool of blue thread' running through it?
I was a little bit shocked when Abby and Brenda, aka Clarence, were gone so suddenly, in the middle of the book. " My protagonist!" Still, I didn't mind when I saw we were going to go backwards for awhile and see Abby and Red on that breezy, yellow-green day. All said, I think it was an interesting concept. We had a chance to see characters through different eyes at different stages of their lives. My opinion of Junior, in particular, changed drastically, several times, from one point in the narrative to another.
quote:
2. Anne Tyler's books, though different from each other are all set in the same place and tend to feautre characters from the same social class, often with troubled children or marriages. Do you find that irritating, comforting or something else?
I enjoy that about her books, but that could be because all those things are familiar to me and easy to identify with. She is just a few years older than I am, so as I've read her books throughout my adult life, her protagonists have usually been about my age with similar friends and problems. I can imagine someone finding all that boring or hard to relate to, but I don't see why it would be irritating. She writes what she knows. If I'm in the mood for a book about, say, young Chinese Americans in San Francisco, I can read Amy Tan.
quote:
3. If you've read a few of her books, do you have a favourite?
I've read them all, but don't really have a particular favorite, possibly Earthly Possessions.
What I really love about Anne Tyler is not the setting, ages, or situations, it's the sympathy she has for her characters. I would like to have Anne Tyler escort me to the Pearly Gates and advocate for me to St Peter. Through her eyes all my annoying habits would becomes endearing quirks and all my sins would be forgivable through understanding.
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starbelly
but you can call me Neil
# 25
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Posted
I read this last summer on Holiday, and have not revisited it since then, so my memory of the book is a little hazy!
I remember being struck by the importance of the house in the story, and the event late in the book that happens surrounding the house (trying to be vague for those still reading) is the most heart breaking part of the book for me, even more than the death of any of the human characters.
I was also struck how strong an identity the family has, and how hard it is as an outsider to become part of a unit that is like this. Nora is the most notable 'outsider' who joins the family, but is never really accepted, and never really feels at ease. This strikes me as true to life, in a relationship there will often be one partners family who dominates, usually larger than life characters and strong family identity overwhelm and overshadow the other partners family.
Neil
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Firstly: thank you Sarasa for the book suggestion -- I have a new author whose works I am keen to devour.
quote:
Originally posted by Sarasa:
1. What do you think about the plotting? Does it feel like a series of random anecdotes, or is there a narrative 'a spool of blue thread' running through it?
I really enjoyed and was engrossed in seeing the character's lives fill out before me, as we, as Twilight wrote, saw them through different eyes at different times in their lives. At times I wondered why we were taken down a particular path, but then it was clear through that 'spool of blue thread' narrative.
Neil wrote on the house's centrality and importance -- I thought of the house as another character!
quote:
Originally posted by Sarasa:
2. Anne Tyler's books, though different from each other are all set in the same place and tend to feautre characters from the same social class, often with troubled children or marriages. Do you find that irritating, comforting or something else?
My first book of hers, so it was all new to me.
One thing I do struggle with is geography and the make-up of cities I am not familiar with. Google Maps can help me place cities and towns, and from the rich descriptions I had a sense of the social background and movement of the family...but I am sure I may miss things not being familiar with that part of the world.
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
1. What do you think about the plotting? Does it feel like a series of random anecdotes, or is there a narrative 'a spool of blue thread' running through it?
It was a bit of a shock when Abby disappeared half-way through, as she seemed the character round which the book was built. I enjoyed it, and am totally envious of Tyler's ability to draw characters in just a few lines, Atta for instance. A Iot of characters reminded me of people that I know, which is why I like her books. Junior was very like my grandfather, also a carpenter and Denny shares some features with my brother. I was also frustrated. I couldn't get a handle on Linnie Mae at all. Other characters seemed to think she was unintelligent, which she obviously wasn't, as she was instrumental to Junior having a succesful business. However I found her behavour as a thireen year old not quite believable. The way the disappeared out of their own story, without very much about what their children thought of them was frustrating too.
2. Anne Tyler's books, though different from each other are all set in the same place and tend to feautre characters from the same social class, often with troubled children or marriages. Do you find that irritating, comforting or something else?
I have a friend who doesn't like Tyer's work at all, thinking it is all far too middle class. I don't think that is fair, but I can see why she thinks that. I really enjoy them, and have never found one I didn't like, though I like some a lot more than others.
3. If you've read a few of her books, do you have a favourite?
Saint Maybe is my favourite.
The house is an important character in the book. Only knowing Baltimore through The Wire I know it has lots of the sort of houses I like, what over here in the UK we'd call Victorian terraces. The sort of house the Whitshanks's live in isn't really known here, but I can understand aspiring to one. I live in a Victorian cottage and when I go walking in the posher bits of my neighbourhood and see the large detached houses I do wonder what it would be like to life in one. I also get the idea that life would be very different and I'd be a better person if I did, which is what I assume Junior thought too, though in the end it wasn't houses but his charatcer that stopped him being what he wanted to be. Like the rest of us of couse.
Another question
The Spool of blue thread at the end. Do you think that Denny's life will change becuae he feels that he and his mother have forgiven each other?
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Tree Bee
Ship's tiller girl
# 4033
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Posted
1. What do you think about the plotting? Does it feel like a series of random anecdotes, or is there a narrative 'a spool of blue thread' running through it?
It reads like a dig into family history, as I'm doing now. It starts with a few family stories that turn out to be partly true, and then the truth, as it's gradually revealed, is more startling than could be suspected. The first chapter with Denny's strange phone call sits oddly with me though and doesn't add to the narrative.
2. Anne Tyler's books, though different from each other are all set in the same place and tend to feature characters from the same social class, often with troubled children or marriages. Do you find that irritating, comforting or something else?
I like it. Superficially the character's lives may seem comfortable but their stories reveal the tragedies , bad luck and hard work they actually contain.
I appreciate how realistic her books are. For example having both sisters marry men called Hugh; as my Mum and aunt have both married Ians. This rarely occurs in fiction.
3. If you've read a few of her books, do you have a favourite?
Digging to America I think, mainly for the incident when a child is deprived of its dummies as they are tied to balloons! I also enjoyed the Beginners Goodbye and An Amateur Marriage.
Can someone put me out of my misery and tell me what and who Red is remembering at the end of the book, who wears a tank top and plays the sax?
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"Any fool can make something complicated. It takes a genius to make it simple."
— Woody Guthrie
http://saysaysay54.wordpress.com
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sarasa:
1. What do you think about the plotting? Does it feel like a series of random anecdotes, or is there a narrative 'a spool of blue thread' running through it?
I need to give this more thought (I've only just finished the book), but it seems to me to be a selection of anecdotes intended to present a series of themes about family relationships, expectations, disappointments, alienation and the way history often repeats itself. Also the way that secrets and half truths can trap us into behaving in certain patterns that seem impossible to break. She is very good at implying the things that are left unsaid and what that says about the characters.
2. Anne Tyler's books, though different from each other are all set in the same place and tend to feautre characters from the same social class, often with troubled children or marriages. Do you find that irritating, comforting or something else?
I think it's fine for there to be these similarities. Like Jane Austen, this gives focus, understanding and an underlying knowledge that helps set the characters and situations within a 'reality'. I got a real sense of period when Junior and Linnie met and when Derrick, Red and Abby were young people, but not so much as they all got older.
3. If you've read a few of her books, do you have a favourite?
I did read one years ago, but can't remember its title. It was about a woman who just leaves her family and sets up on her own in a small town - I do know I enjoyed reading it. I'm fascinated by the dynamics of family relationships and how much we truly know one another, even our closest kin.
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
Thank you Twilight, that is indeed the book!
My memory for titles and authors has got increasingly poor as I get older. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
1. What do you think about the plotting? Does it feel like a series of random anecdotes, or is there a narrative 'a spool of blue thread' running through it?
I enjoyed the plotting and the jump back in time; I felt it was more interesting than a chronological narrative.
2. Anne Tyler's books, though different from each other are all set in the same place and tend to feautre characters from the same social class, often with troubled children or marriages. Do you find that irritating, comforting or something else?
I've only read three of her books, not enough to find any similarities irritating.
3. If you've read a few of her books, do you have a favourite?
I read A Spool of Blue Thread last year, and at that point I would have said that I preferred An Amateur Marriage. I reread A Spool in order to join this discussion, and felt that I enjoyed it more second time around.
4.The Spool of blue thread at the end. Do you think that Denny's life will change because he feels that he and his mother have forgiven each other?
I think that Denny wants his life to change and the spool incident re-inforces that; he is interpreting it in light of his own wishes.
[ 24. February 2016, 21:39: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
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Landlubber
Shipmate
# 11055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
Can someone put me out of my misery and tell me what and who Red is remembering at the end of the book, who wears a tank top and plays the sax?
I think that refers back to a moment early in the book, when Denny has disappeared and misses the family beach holiday. The others hear the Horn Concerto being played. When they rush out to see if it is Denny, they find a man in a tank top listening to a car radio.
I've just finished reading the book and am trying to sort out my reaction and thinking about the questions.
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They that go down to the sea in ships … reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Landlubber:
quote:
Originally posted by Tree Bee:
Can someone put me out of my misery and tell me what and who Red is remembering at the end of the book, who wears a tank top and plays the sax?
I think that refers back to a moment early in the book, when Denny has disappeared and misses the family beach holiday. The others hear the Horn Concerto being played. When they rush out to see if it is Denny, they find a man in a tank top listening to a car radio.
I've just finished reading the book and am trying to sort out my reaction and thinking about the questions.
I agree. I think it's another pointer in how Denny sits at the heart of the story, a bit like a spider tugging on his web to reel people in, even when he's not there. I don't mean he's an evil person, it's just how his neediness and attention seeking manifests itself. Tree Bee, I think the 'l'm gay' phone call is giving us an early clue about this. It's one of his cries for help; the always moving and not committing, looking for love and security but always sabotaging it himself. It's interesting that Abby is so consumed with her Social Work 'projects', the orphans and especially Stem, that she seems almost to disregard or not have thought about the natural impact it would have on 4 year old Denny and Red just went along with it. Or does anyone read it differently?
Sarasa, I feel fairly hopeful about Denny changing. He seems to have worked out and come to terms with his 'demons' and accepted that he and his mother, indeed all of us, are to some extent victims of family dynamics, but, with forgiveness and understanding, can stop replicating harmful patterns (or maybe I'm just reading too much in to the text!).
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
That whole Denny and Stem thing was so sad. I can understand Denny feeling displaced, but what else could Abby do? I couldn't have looked at that little neck and sent Stem away either.
I was also really sad at Red leaving the house he had lived in and cared for all his life. I don't care how well built his new apartment is, I can't see him being happy there as he becomes more and more vague and starts wandering around looking for his old home. I think he did it mainly because he knew it was the only way to get Stem and his wife to return to their nice craftsman house.
I feel bad, too, for Abby spending her final months creeping around, hiding in her own house.
When my own father was eighty, he moved from the nice house he had shared with my mother to a tiny poorly built house that was "in town," and closer to his doctor and friends. He quickly came to hate everything about it. Sure it was safer and he didn't have to drive the long country road anymore, but I was sorry I had encouraged the move. I think there's a point of no return on moving, when the adjustment to new surroundings is just too much.
My feelings about helping our elders has changed over the years and now I'm more on the side of allowing them to keep their homes and independence verses worrying about their safety.
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Landlubber
Shipmate
# 11055
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Posted
1. What do you think about the plotting? Does it feel like a series of random anecdotes, or is there a narrative 'a spool of blue thread' running through it?
I found the thread more like knitting: it had to be followed back and forth through various twists and loops, but there was a pattern emerging. There were some abrupt turns, such as Abby's death (not helped by the fact that I got confused about which dog was which, so I thought at first that the accident had been a dream sequence). I like and find helpful what others have said about the house as character or theme.
2. Anne Tyler's books, though different from each other are all set in the same place and tend to feature characters from the same social class, often with troubled children or marriages. Do you find that irritating, comforting or something else?/3. If you've read a few of her books, do you have a favourite?
This is the first of her books that I have read. Right now, I am not likely to read another. I felt a low-level irritation all the time I was reading it. I think this is a measure of how well-written it is, to be able to provoke a reaction in me, but I need to find a familiar, comforting book to re-read, to recover.
4. The Spool of blue thread at the end. Do you think that Denny's life will change because he feels that he and his mother have forgiven each other?
I agree with Doone's analysis, that Denny sits and reels people in. I, however, am not convinced that there would be any change after the finding of the spool of thread; that pessimism is, I think, a result of the feelings of doom and frustration the rest of the book induced.
Thank you for the introduction to a new-to-me author.
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They that go down to the sea in ships … reel to and fro, and stagger like a drunken man
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
I'm not sure if I read it wrong, but I was puzzled to Red's attitude when Stem found out the truth about his mother. Red seemed to be implying that he wouldn't have allowed Abby to do it, and therefore seemed to be negating his own relationship with Stem.
As for the end maybe Red had some relief at leaving the house, as he could then step out of the shadow of his father. I hope someone got him hearing aids that worked for him too.
Did anyone think there was at least one car accident to many? Abby, the boyfriend she left for Red, and Red's parents. there must be other ways to kill characters off.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
Sarasa, good point about the car crashes - I hadn't noticed before you suggested it. Or was this also a thread?
Twilight, I agree that Abby was right to take Stem in. What I was suggesting was that she was so wrapped up in doing right by Stem, she forgot to give the reassurance and attention that Denny needed to not feel excluded and took too little account of his feelings. I think it is interesting that in the last scene, on the train, the young man sobbing next to him reminded him of Stem crying through the night in the room they shared and the feelings this evoked. At the very least I should think he would be quite frightened by the deep distress?
I am puzzled as well by Red's reaction to the revelations about Stem's mother. I maybe need to re-read that part.
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I agree about "one car crash too many."
I think Red was just too old and confused and grieving to realize just who he was talking to when Stem found the "contract," between Abby and Stem's mother. Red was mad that Abby made this important decision without letting him know the whole truth.
I might agree with Red that the right thing to do would have been to give Stem back to his real mother, even though I totally understand Abby wanting to keep Stem. Stem took Red's ethical opinion about what was right and translated it to Red not really loving him and that's a shame, because I think they are two very separate things.
Abby was driven by emotions and with the best of intentions may not have always done the "right," thing.
Denny's hurt is something I've never thought about before. Do children feel that betrayed if their parents take in foster children?
Someone up thread said she couldn't understand Linnie very well. She is a type I grew up with in West Virginia; Appalachian, independent, self-sufficient and proud in a very different way from Junior's striving pride that kept him constantly comparing himself with the neighbors. As Junior learned when she threw the paint down the steps, Linnie had never really needed him to get along in the world. If he had driven on past the bus station she would have had a job and a place to stay by the next day. I went to school with girls like Linnie, but never really knew them because, although they would come down from the "hollers," and sit through the school day with us until they dropped out at about age 15, we never really knew them. They looked at my friends and me as though we were babies and we were by comparison.
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
I think it says a great deal about the power of the writing that we are discussing these characters as though they are people we know.
Twilight said:
quote:
Someone up thread said she couldn't understand Linnie very well.
That was me. I kept on thinking of The Coal-Miner's Daughter the film about Loretta Lynn, and I guess Linnie is from the same sort of place and background (though her dad seemed relatively well off). I think what puzzled me was why she kept up the idea of the great romance between her and Junior. He obviously needed her more than she needed him, but I wonder if she would have stuck with him when she got to know him better.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Doone
Shipmate
# 18470
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Posted
Twilight, thank you for the insights on Linnie. It's really valuable having views from someone who has personal knowledge of the cultural background as it is very different from my own experience. I think you're probably right about Stem and Red's reactions to the contract, it certainly shocked and hurt Stem to his very core. It seems that Denny's 'healing' was, at least partly, at the expense of Stem's devastation - in a way Denny has found himself and Stem has lost himself?
I wonder how the family dynamics will play themselves out in Junior and Linnie's grandchildren? Elise is perhaps already showing some of Merrick's traits, for example?
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Marama
Shipmate
# 330
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Posted
I have found this book a very satisfying read
1. What do you think about the plotting? Does it feel like a series of random anecdotes, or is there a narrative 'a spool of blue thread' running through it?
I too liked the way we saw the characters at different ages and from varying perspectives, made possible by the chronological jumps. The constants are the house itself, which is effectively a character, and the family stories, or rather myths. Not exactly true, but forming the identity of the family.
2. Anne Tyler's books, though different from each other are all set in the same place and tend to feature characters from the same social class, often with troubled children or marriages. Do you find that irritating, comforting or something else?
I agree with those who find this comforting, and appreciate Tyler's understanding and acceptance of people's foibles, and her preparedness to look for the good. This does not mean that there is no tension, but it does lead to the possibility of change, redemption, solution
3. If you've read a few of her books, do you have a favourite?
I read 'The Accidental Tourist' and 'Dinner at the Heartbreak Restaurant' last year. While I enjoyed them, I found this book more complex and interesting, which was achieved, I think , through the greater time span and the chronological jumps.
I have learned a bit about the city of Baltimore (and have to admit I had to look up where exactly it was!). Interestingly there is little sense of the early colonial history in Tyler's books, or am I missing it?
It may be a Baltimore thing, but this non-American finds many of Tyler's male names a bit odd - Macon, Red, Cody, Beck, Trey. At least Stem is explained. And yes, a 70yr old Junior seems peculiar.
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