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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: California Fires
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
As is being reported fires in North California may be the worst in that state's history. Thousands of homes have been burned to the ground.
While I live in Washington State. These fires are very close to home for me. Members of my extended family live in the fire zone. So far, they seem to be okay. My son's significant other also has an apartment near there. My son is in Missouri for a year. His partner has a church in California. Just this evening my neighbor asked me to pray for her daughter because the daughter lives in the fire zone as well.
While California had a wet winter, they have had a long hot summer. Just last week NBC News was saying the grapes in the Napa Vineyards were turning to raisins on the vine because it has been so hot and dry. This week those same areas are being hit by fires.
No one knows what the death toll will eventually be, but people tell of waking up and realizing they had to flee in minutes. Videos are out there showing people racing down streets with the inferno on both sides. There are reports of several elderly people not being able to make it out. One couple survived by staying in their neighbor's swimming pool while the fire burned all the houses around them.
The fires out West have been burning hotter and longer over the past 20 years It is not going to get any better soon.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Yeah, I'm in SF, south and across the bay. We're getting smoke and lots of news.
I'm not sure how wet the weather was in the general area. But yeah, a very hot summer. We need a real-life rainmaker.
SF Gate, related to the SF Chronicle, has lots of coverage. NOTE: some of the pictures show massive devastation.
I'm watching the local NBC news. Sen. Kamala Harris, who says "there were some glitches in the federal response". E.g., financial aid not given quickly enough. And she's worried by T's plan to cut FEMA's budget by...$600 million (?) dollars.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
A lot of winter rain means good spring growth; then a hot dry summer dries all of that growth and gets it ready to burn. Hence this catastrophe.
I wonder how Trump will react to this? Any better that he did to Puerto Rico?
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
He probably thinks California is a country in Africa.
There's a lot in that SFGate link about the destruction of wineries - presumably this will adversely affect the economy (let alone people's lives, the environment etc.).
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I wonder how Trump will react to this? Any better that he did to Puerto Rico?
He'll throw bottles of Trump wine to the crowd, most likely.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
My friends are out of the danger zone, thank God, but there are some awful pictures and lots missing. I bloody hate bushfires.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I have a friend who lives in Santa Rosa. He has no electricity, and so we get only very intermittent word. So far he has not had to evacuate, but their bags are packed. He has promised that he and his family won't perish, but his house may not survive.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Initially, reports were that the fires were set by an arsonist. Now they are saying most of the fires were probably set by downed power lines. When the Diablo winds start roaring through the valley, nasty things happen.
I saw a political cartoon today showing a family escaping the flames and Trump (off-screen) throwing rolls of paper towers, saying "Thoughts and Prayers."
Thing of it is, many of the vineyard owners in the Napa Valley are strng Republicans. It will be interesting to see how the Trump administration deals with this disaster.
Disaster in Houston. Disasters in the Carribean, (including British and American islands). Disaster in Florida (has anyone heard anything about the Keys?). Disasters in California. Does anyone see a pattern here?
I certainly do not want to overlook the Mexican Earthquake, but that is another issue.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Disaster in Houston. Disasters in the Carribean, (including British and American islands). Disaster in Florida (has anyone heard anything about the Keys?). Disasters in California. Does anyone see a pattern here?
Ho-mo-sexuals. Gawd is punishing the world for the sins of the Gayz.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Just so, but don't forget the Girlz, Librulz, and Tranz (to name but a few more peeps that the little god of the self-righteouz hates).
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I wonder how Trump will react to this? Any better that he did to Puerto Rico?
Too many Democrats there for it to be of any interest to trump. Like Puerto Rico, it must be their own fault - no more help for them.
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
...Disaster in Houston. Disasters in the Carribean, (including British and American islands). Disaster in Florida (has anyone heard anything about the Keys?). Disasters in California. Does anyone see a pattern here?
I certainly do not want to overlook the Mexican Earthquake, but that is another issue.
And that's keeping it all in this hemisphere.
I fear the Cheeto-in-Chief will figure it's California's own fault for electing Pelosi. I hope he knows that it's a part of the United States.
In the meantime, keep an eye peeled for a quartet of odd-looking equestrians.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Miss Amanda--
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I wonder how Trump will react to this? Any better that he did to Puerto Rico?
He'll throw bottles of Trump wine to the crowd, most likely.
Is there such a thing as Trump wine? He doesn't drink, because he lost a brother to alcoholism.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Is there such a thing as Trump wine?
Read it and weep.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Eric has one.
edit: beaten to the punch!
[ 14. October 2017, 06:22: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
I wonder if postie was delivering 'warmest thoughts and prayers' from The Deranged Dotard*?
(*with due acknowledgements to Kim Wrong-Trim)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
...Disaster in Houston. Disasters in the Carribean, (including British and American islands). Disaster in Florida (has anyone heard anything about the Keys?). Disasters in California. Does anyone see a pattern here?
I certainly do not want to overlook the Mexican Earthquake, but that is another issue.
And that's keeping it all in this hemisphere.
I fear the Cheeto-in-Chief will figure it's California's own fault for electing Pelosi. I hope he knows that it's a part of the United States.
Yeah, we might be part of the US, and we might be bankrolling all those red states (pardon me for mentioning such an inconvenient truth), but as Sarah P reminded us, we're not "real Americans" so I'm guessing we're on our own to deal with this devastation. I will be frankly amazed if we get so much as a sympathetic nod from POTUS.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Aftermath
Could've done with the music, sad enough to see the devastation. And the advert at the end? ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
It really did resemble the aftermath of a nuclear attack (the clear roads were quite surreal).
Is this what America is looking forward to, courtesy of the Infantile Tyrants?
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Could've done without the music, sad enough to see the devastation. And the advert at the end?
Was it selling fire insurance?
Used to get that in farming areas. Someone has a large barn fire then a week later insurance bods would be knocking on neighbouring doors while the smell of smoke still lingered.
Simply devastating to lose your home and all it’s contents like that. As these fires seem to be getting ever more frequent a total rethink on surrounding vegetation, property protection etc. must soon be inevitable.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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irreverend tod
Shipmate
# 18773
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Posted
It's just so incredibly sad to think of the loss of life and the realization that a lot of people are going to have to rebuild their lives. It makes me reflect on what of my current life I would hate to be parted from.
Are there any of the crew affected?
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Diocesan Arsonist and Lead thief to the Church of England.
Posts: 55 | From: England | Registered: May 2017
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Simply devastating to lose your home and all it’s contents like that. As these fires seem to be getting ever more frequent a total rethink on surrounding vegetation, property protection etc. must soon be inevitable.
Most likely already done. We have very strict zoning here in Calif. re roofing materials, for example, and most municipalities are very diligent about monitoring overgrowth, etc. In my city the fire dept patrols regularly in the months before fire season (which is now) and issue citations if you haven't cut back everything near your home, if you fail to address it they will do so at your expense.
Pretty much everyone has fire insurance-- can't get a mortgage w/o it-- and we are paying massive premiums for it. Our insurers also require a number of measures such as brush abatement, sprinkler systems, etc.
But when you're facing these sorts of brushfires with a Santa Ana behind them, no amount of brush abatement/ tile roofs/ sprinkler systems is going to be effective. The fires have already jumped several fire lines-- when it gets to that point there's very little you can do other than pray for rain.
fyi: they're not really more frequent-- fires are part of the natural lifecycle of the foothills, mountains, canyons and forests native to California. But we are building closer & closer to the foothills and forests, both because we're running out of space anywhere else, and also simply because it's a truly beautiful place to live, when not aflame. (Actually, even then-- as horrible as it sounds to say, the sunsets in fire season are incredible-- if it's not your house that's burning). I've lived in the foothills all my life, as my moniker denotes.
[ 14. October 2017, 18:14: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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churchgeek
Have candles, will pray
# 5557
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Posted
I spent about 9 years living in Oakland. It was interesting to note that the natural disasters (in this case, fires and mudslides) tend to happen in areas where the more wealthy live, which is opposite other places - like New Orleans, as a famous example.
My friends out there are mostly in places where they're not in danger of fire, but the air quality is brutal, I hear. I remember that, at least as an asthmatic - fires could be several counties away and the air was still really difficult to breathe. I have a friend from here in Detroit who's now living with her kids in Petaluma, and today's her birthday, and I hear she's spending it wearing a mask. But that still beats losing everything.
What can be done differently, I wonder? Are there places humans just shouldn't live?
I also don't know much about vineyards. Are they planted in places with a natural fire cycle, or did the fires just spread to them?
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I reserve the right to change my mind.
My article on the Virgin of Vladimir
Posts: 7773 | From: Detroit | Registered: Feb 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
What can be done differently, I wonder? Are there places humans just shouldn't live?
Yes, of course. But the problem is about how many people should live there, how the residences and roads should be designed, how the area should be maintained and protected, etc. Rarely are all these factors considered much less all implemented and enforced.
quote:
I also don't know much about vineyards. Are they planted in places with a natural fire cycle, or did the fires just spread to them?
Most of the California wines grow in areas where there is little moisture during the production cycle.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
...I'm particularly struck by the stubbornness of the cat, who refused to join them.
My understanding is that cats have a heartbreaking tendency to run back into burning buildings. And this one seems to have been panicking over the whole thing. It's not that surprising, but it's one more big piece of grief atop the enormous pile that couple is dealing with.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
fyi: they're not really more frequent-- fires are part of the natural lifecycle of the foothills, mountains, canyons and forests native to California. But we are building closer & closer to the foothills and forests, both because we're running out of space anywhere else, and also simply because it's a truly beautiful place to live, when not aflame.
But we're not running out of space! I am sitting here in my second-floor apartment, looking out the window, and seeing almost no buildings taller than the one I live in. And southern California is full of neighborhoods like mine, two-story neighborhoods that can and should be more dense. Look at Los Angeles -- a small clump of tall buildings downtown surrounded by one- and two-story buildings. The problem is so many people wanting to live in the country's second-largest metroplex without actually living in a city. It's not realistic. I think we should build up and leave ourselves some open space.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
...I'm particularly struck by the stubbornness of the cat, who refused to join them.
My understanding is that cats have a heartbreaking tendency to run back into burning buildings. And this one seems to have been panicking over the whole thing. It's not that surprising, but it's one more big piece of grief atop the enormous pile that couple is dealing with.
One feline did apparently perish, but the other the family found under a juniper bush. She utterly refused to go into the pool with them however, and her fate is unknown.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Hopefully.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I think we should build up and leave ourselves some open space.
So, you build up and there is a massive earthquake.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I think we should build up and leave ourselves some open space.
So, you build up and there is a massive earthquake.
It is possible, but pricey, to make tall buildings that can ride out major earthquakes. The important thing is planning for foreseeable dangers, as Fukushima demonstrated. The disaster there had nothing to do with height.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I think we should build up and leave ourselves some open space.
So, you build up and there is a massive earthquake.
It is possible, but pricey, to make tall buildings that can ride out major earthquakes. The important thing is planning for foreseeable dangers, as Fukushima demonstrated. The disaster there had nothing to do with height.
The epicentre was miles out to sea, an earthquake's strength diminishes fairly quickly as the distance increases. Los Angeles and San Francisco have faults that run though their cities. And whilst they are not ancient cities, they have many existing buildings not built to current codes. But let us pretend that every building in those cities suffers not a crack. The utilities will fail, streets will be flooded with water mixed with raw sewage, downed power lines will be in that mix and the fires they cause, trees will be blocking the roads, etc. Tell me how density is not an issue, then?
[ 14. October 2017, 23:31: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Meconopsis
Apprentice
# 18146
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Posted
I do live in the area. Many fires are in the process of being contained, but new ones are occurring (or growing). It is very much ongoing.
I had a fun thing happen to me; a reporter from the NY Times asked me for directions. We chatted & I learned her name & that she just wrote on an interesting angle: the evacuees to the coast, many camping. (Miriam Jordan is the reporter; it's a short, nice article).
Posts: 31 | Registered: Jun 2014
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
I think we should build up and leave ourselves some open space.
So, you build up and there is a massive earthquake.
It is possible, but pricey, to make tall buildings that can ride out major earthquakes. The important thing is planning for foreseeable dangers, as Fukushima demonstrated. The disaster there had nothing to do with height.
The epicentre was miles out to sea, an earthquake's strength diminishes fairly quickly as the distance increases. Los Angeles and San Francisco have faults that run though their cities. And whilst they are not ancient cities, they have many existing buildings not built to current codes. But let us pretend that every building in those cities suffers not a crack. The utilities will fail, streets will be flooded with water mixed with raw sewage, downed power lines will be in that mix and the fires they cause, trees will be blocking the roads, etc. Tell me how density is not an issue, then?
There are no power lines in downtown cores; they're all underground. What kind of earthquake are we talking about? SF and LA have survived many earthquakes in our lifetimes. Complaining about the readiness of existing buildings when we're talking about building new buildings is completely beside the point.
And building up need not result in density. We're talking here about replacing lots of single-family dwellings with highrises. The highrises needn't all be clustered in dense urban cores. They could be strung out along rivers, for example (set safely back of course) or around lakes, or just dotting the landscape.
PS WTF does the epicenter of the Fukushima quake have to do with what I said?
[ 14. October 2017, 23:44: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There are no power lines in downtown cores; they're all underground.
They will still break and they will still cause fires.
quote:
What kind of earthquake are we talking about? SF and LA have survived many earthquakes in our lifetimes. Complaining about the readiness of existing buildings when we're talking about building new buildings is completely beside the point.
Only in a fantasy scenario would every existing building be replaced. Current practice is to require new buildings be built to new codes. Old ones might be retrofitted, but this is seldom equal.
quote:
And building up need not result in density. We're talking here about replacing lots of single-family dwellings with highrises. The highrises needn't all be clustered in dense urban cores. They could be strung out along rivers, for example (set safely back of course) or around lakes, or just dotting the landscape.
Four words: California Real Estate Prices.
quote:
PS WTF does the epicenter of the Fukushima quake have to do with what I said?
Distance =Reduction in intensity. What survived Fukushima is not what would survive an earthquake epicentre that was closer.
It is something like at 7 miles the impact is half, at 15 one quarter at 30 one eighth and so on.
In 2008, the USGS modeled a 7.8 magnitude quake in Southern California. The damage was estimated to be ~ $200 billion with approximately 1,800 dead.
"The Big One" that is feared in SoCal is expected to be between 7 and 9. Each major point is One Hundred times greater than the one before it.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Only in a fantasy scenario would every existing building be replaced. Current practice is to require new buildings be built to new codes. Old ones might be retrofitted, but this is seldom equal.
That's not what was under discussion. The question was whether NEW high rises should be built, not whether OLD high rises could survive an earthquake. For the purposes of this conversation, old skyscrapers are irrelevant.
quote:
Four words: California Real Estate Prices.
You're saying real estate in central LA is cheaper than real estate in the burbs? I must say this seems counterintuitive.
quote:
quote:
PS WTF does the epicenter of the Fukushima quake have to do with what I said?
Distance =Reduction in intensity. What survived Fukushima is not what would survive an earthquake epicentre that was closer.
It is something like at 7 miles the impact is half, at 15 one quarter at 30 one eighth and so on.
But that's not what I was talking about at all. I was saying that tall buildings weren't the only thing that needs to be worried about whilst earthquakeproofing.
[ 15. October 2017, 00:54: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
For the purposes of this conversation, old skyscrapers are irrelevant.
Actually, the comment was that LA should build up and leave open spaces. My comment address this.
quote:
ou're saying real estate in central LA is cheaper than real estate in the burbs? I must say this seems counterintuitive.
I am going to guess which neighbourhood one is speaking of changes the equation. But space is always expensive in urban cores. There will be areas that are undesirable, but prices rise when those are "renewed".
quote:
But that's not what I was talking about at all. I was saying that tall buildings weren't the only thing that needs to be worried about whilst earthquakeproofing.
That is not what I understood, my bad.
My basic point remains: One of the major problems, if not the major problem, is too many people. More people means more logistical issues.
[ 15. October 2017, 01:14: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Sadly until a huge number of people from California decide to move to Iowa, the overpopulation problem will continue to be a problem.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Sadly until a huge number of people from California decide to move to Iowa, the overpopulation problem will continue to be a problem.
There are too damn many people almost everywhere.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
There are many emptying villages in flyover country. The small towns of Kansas for instance are hemorrhaging people (see What is Wrong with Kansas). But people have to live where the jobs are.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
fyi: they're not really more frequent-- fires are part of the natural lifecycle of the foothills, mountains, canyons and forests native to California. But we are building closer & closer to the foothills and forests, both because we're running out of space anywhere else, and also simply because it's a truly beautiful place to live, when not aflame.
But we're not running out of space! I am sitting here in my second-floor apartment, looking out the window, and seeing almost no buildings taller than the one I live in. And southern California is full of neighborhoods like mine, two-story neighborhoods that can and should be more dense. Look at Los Angeles -- a small clump of tall buildings downtown surrounded by one- and two-story buildings. The problem is so many people wanting to live in the country's second-largest metroplex without actually living in a city. It's not realistic. I think we should build up and leave ourselves some open space.
Well yes, that's true. And in many cases there are even municipal codes that prevent you from building more than two stories-- so as not to block your neighbor's view of... those fire-prone foothills and mountains (so says Cliffdweller, living in her house with gorgeous views of said foothills and mountains. But hey, mine at least is 5 levels-- even if they are all snaking up a sheer cliff that probably shouldn't be built on...)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
And I don't blame you in the least, cliffdweller! It's absolutely gorgeous in the foothills.
The earthquake thing ... look, there are already over 17 million people just in Los Angeles County. We've built a metropolis in earthquake country, and it's way too late to do anything about that. As mousethief has pointed out, taller buildings can be built to withstand earthquakes. Considering the dearth of housing affordable even for the middle class, there's no reason not to build more densely.
The crazy thing to me is building in semi-rural areas and expecting city services and fast emergency responses. I grew up in such an area, and people who lived in the back of beyond did not expect anyone to rescue them when things went south.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
I have heard from my distant cousins in the fire area. They are safe and secure at this time.
One problem with some of the area that is being burned, I believe is the abundance of Eucalyptus trees in that area. Eucalyptus is not a native plant. It has taken over much of the coastal hills north of the Bay area. Its oil is highly flammable. When they go up, they burn very hot and eventually explode, sending flame and sparks in all directions.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Could the eucalyptus trees now destroyed perhaps be replaced in time with native trees, whatever they may be?
That might be a (possibly long-term) way of improving the environment.
Meanwhile, has The Deranged Dotard tweeted (or done) anything useful about this horrendous occurrence?
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rossweisse:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
...I'm particularly struck by the stubbornness of the cat, who refused to join them.
My understanding is that cats have a heartbreaking tendency to run back into burning buildings. And this one seems to have been panicking over the whole thing. It's not that surprising, but it's one more big piece of grief atop the enormous pile that couple is dealing with.
This problem was dealt with once upon a time in New York https://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/35697
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re eucalyptus in the Bay Area:
Some years ago, Angel Island State Park (in the bay) was working on replacing their many eucalyptus trees with native trees. I loved the smell and didn't want them to do it. But a ranger told me that they have a very shallow root system, and can fall over in a storm. I don't remember if fire was a consideration.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
Eucalyptus were initially planted in California as a source for telephone poles. However they do take over the neighborhood (a lot of plants won't grow under them). The most common types are susceptible to frost, and as they dry develop twists that make them difficult to cut, even with a chain saw.
But even the native oak trees could support a crown fire, particularly when enough brush builds up under them. That's where frequent small fires that stay on the ground help to reduce the chance of fast-moving crown fires.
Eucalyptus also come back from root, so may be one of the first trees to recover (if the underground roots survived the heat.) By contrast, one of the major issues in oak forests in California is the lack of seedlings and mature trees take a long time to develop.
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Plus Sudden Oak Death Syndrome, which is a horror. (Something contagious to oaks.) More dead wood to burn.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
I have heard from my distant cousins in the fire area. They are safe and secure at this time.
One problem with some of the area that is being burned, I believe is the abundance of Eucalyptus trees in that area. Eucalyptus is not a native plant. It has taken over much of the coastal hills north of the Bay area. Its oil is highly flammable. When they go up, they burn very hot and eventually explode, sending flame and sparks in all directions.
Good news about your cousins.
The oil problem with eucalypts is that not only does it burn well when the tree catches fire, the oils vapourise in the heat before the fire itself reaches the tree. The vapour then burns taking the fire forward.
Eucalypts do regenerate well after fires.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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