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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Mary Magdalene
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
Next year, there will be a movie about Mary Magdalene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi46nLoIo6E
I will be interested in seeing if they depict Mary as a repentant prostitute, or if they are going to be Biblically correct.
But in thinking about a relationship between Mary Magdalene and Jesus reminded me of a conversation in seminary when one friend expressed frustration that the problem with talking about their relationship is that we seem to be incapable of talking about a deep friendship between a man and a woman that doesn't involve sexual relations, which is why talking about Jesus and Mary Magdalene becomes difficult. For some reason, she claims, it is hard for some western Christians to accept Mary Magdalene as a fully-fledged disciple of Jesus without either minimalizing her ("She of course, wasn't one of the 'Twelve') or exaggerating her relationship ala Dan Brown and Holy Grail nonsense.
I like the emphasis in the East on Mary as the witness to the Resurrection, and can call her a Prophet in her own right.
How do you understand Mary Magdalene?
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
She was a respected woman of substance (she helped support Jesus and the disciples) from whom Jesus cast seven demons. Nothing in Scripture suggests that she was a woman of negotiable virtue; that's a medieval construct, and frankly unforgivable. She's the apostle to the apostles.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
I’m not sure why she is always considered to have been (for want of a better phrase) a possible “love interest” for Jesus. AFAIK the Gospels are silent about her age. She could easily have been his mother’s age, for example.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
I'm very much with the idea of an apostle to the apostles. I think she was probably a hugely important figure to have been given that role in the NT.
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Human
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Yes, the first to see Our Lord on the morning of His Resurrection, and certainly an Apostle to the rest of the timid crew....
FWIW, I reckon the meeting between Jesus and Mary on Resurrection Morning is one of the most beautiful and haunting scenes in the whole Bible.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
While the male Apostles may have done great things after the resurrection, in many instances in the Gospels they serve the function of not getting the point; setting up Jesus for reemphasizing the point.
Mary, fully an Apostle as far as I am concerned, is the one who acted out her faith. She is, for me, the role model of how it should be done.
The prostitute stuff is more a reflection on the men who claimed that stuff than on Mary, or the Gospels.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Kwesi
Shipmate
# 10274
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Posted
Why should we be so worried if she had been a sex worker anyway?
Posts: 1641 | From: South Ofankor | Registered: Sep 2005
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
Her alleged status as a sex worker is not a problem as far as I am concerned. My issue is with who claimed that and why they claimed that.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Her alleged status as a sex worker is not a problem as far as I am concerned. My issue is with who claimed that and why they claimed that.
I did read an article where they interviewed a group of sex workers in Italy who complained that the Church's claim that she wasn't a sex worker meant that they were robbed of a patron saint who understood what they were going through.
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Here's a question (although I know a Dead Horse is just around the corner with this one): Why didn't Jesus name Mary Magdalene as one of the apostles? She seems to have been a much more important leader among the early disciples than many of the Twelve. Jesus also didn't seem to be one that cared much about the restrictions of gender roles at the time if they got in the way of his ministry. So why not then?
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
<snip>The prostitute stuff is more a reflection on the men who claimed that stuff than on Mary, or the Gospels.
Maybe. But also the consequence of a rather simplistic harmonisation of Gospel material Matthew 26.6-13, Mark 14.3-9, Luke 7.36-50, and John 12.1-8.
Matthew and Mark are surely recounting the same incident, but is Luke? Luke's anointing occurs much earlier in his telling than Matthew and Mark's - although he more or less follows the same structure as they do. The Pharisee in his account is named as Simon, but it is not indicated that he was a leper cp Matthew and Mark. The woman in Luke's account is described as having lived a sinful life.
In Matthew and Mark's accounts the house is located in Bethany, the house is named as that of Simon the Leper, although it is not clear from that that it is the same house in Bethany as that which included Mary Martha and Lazarus.
Both Luke and the longer ending of Mark describe Mary Magdalene (or Mary of Mandala) as one from whom seven demons have been driven out. Luke's reference to Mary Magdalene comes immediately after the anointing story, without him making any connection between them.
It's easy to see why conflating these accounts was attractive (and it is not (just) a matter of male prejudice), but it is also easy to see that it is a jigsaw piece which doesn't really fit, and how it plays into a madonna or prostitute binary view of women.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
That question really should be "why didn't any of the Evangelists name Mary Magdalene as an apostle?" We really have no idea what Jesus did or didn't say on the matter. We have the record as presented by the authors of the gospels, as well as the author of Luke-Acts.
X-post - response to stonespring
[ 04. December 2017, 13:24: Message edited by: Dark Knight ]
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
Next year, there will be a movie about Mary Magdalene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi46nLoIo6E
I will be interested in seeing if they depict Mary as a repentant prostitute, or if they are going to be Biblically correct.
A Hollywood movie? Then yes, she'll have been a prostitute. You can't expect them to pass that up.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Her alleged status as a sex worker is not a problem as far as I am concerned. My issue is with who claimed that and why they claimed that.
I did read an article where they interviewed a group of sex workers in Italy who complained that the Church's claim that she wasn't a sex worker meant that they were robbed of a patron saint who understood what they were going through.
They always have S Mary of Egypt as a backup patron.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
The trailer gives a foretaste of what might turn out to be a powerful film, though the chap playing Jesus looks a bit older than 33....
Doubtless there will be the usual cries of 'Blasphemy!' from the Usual Suspects.
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
Said "chap" is Joaquin Phoenix. Although I think he is a fine actor, he seems too crazy to be Jesus somehow. OTOH, maybe that is perfect. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
You may be right.... ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
I see that Phoenix (River Phoenix's brother) is 43 years old, so not too far off. I daresay Our Lord, by the time he was ending his ministry, was in any case looking somewhat careworn.
BTW, the lady playing Mary (Our Lord's mother, that is) looks exactly how I'd pictured her at that stage of her life (late 40s-50ish?).
All very interesting, but I guess further comment and analysis might best wait until after we've seen the fillum!
FWIW, I don't have any problem with the idea that Our Lord might have had normal, healthy, sexual feelings for Mary Magdalene (or any other woman). The point surely is that, even if he did, he put them to one side for the sake of completing his ministry.
Please don't burn me...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
Yes, Jesus is being played by Joaquin Phoenix, while Mags is being played by Rooney Mara...who has been living with Joaquin for the last year or so. While certainly not conclusive, that does makes me nervous as to how the relationship between Jesus & Mags will be portrayed.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Yes, Jesus is being played by Joaquin Phoenix, while Mags is being played by Rooney Mara...who has been living with Joaquin for the last year or so. While certainly not conclusive, that does makes me nervous as to how the relationship between Jesus & Mags will be portrayed.
If Mary Magdalene tells Jesus "I love you", would we necessarily see it as a sexual thing?
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
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Rossweisse
High Church Valkyrie
# 2349
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
They always have S Mary of Egypt as a backup patron.
Or Thais, who also has a pretty decent opera based on her story.
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I'm not dead yet.
Posts: 15117 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Yes, Jesus is being played by Joaquin Phoenix, while Mags is being played by Rooney Mara...who has been living with Joaquin for the last year or so. While certainly not conclusive, that does makes me nervous as to how the relationship between Jesus & Mags will be portrayed.
If Mary Magdalene tells Jesus "I love you", would we necessarily see it as a sexual thing?
Of course not. And even if Jesus replies that he loves her, too, it would not necessarily suggest a romantic relationship. It would depend on how the words are said and what body language and gestures are used at the time. In other words, context.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
If this film hopes to acquire a mainstream audience then I imagine it has to hint at some sexual attraction between the two main characters. The story is too reverential and pious otherwise. And since when has Hollywood ignored the potential sexual angle in anything??
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Was the demonic possession Mary Magdalene suffered before encountering Jesus linked to mental illness or seizures as has been conjectured with other possessed people healed in the gospels? Or did it have something to do with having been possessed by demons for having gone down an evil path? What exactly does demonic possession, unspecified, mean in the Gospels? Does it mean something that the most important female disciple (aside from the Virgin Mary) is mentioned as having had demons cast out of her, before her ministry, whereas (I think) all the 12 Apostles were not?
Posts: 1537 | Registered: Mar 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
It has always seemed a pity that the 4 gospels are written in the names of 4 men and not anything from the perspective or in the name of a woman. I'd hope this flick would do the story from her perspective and forget about the boy version "biblically correct" in that regard. Otherwise we don't need a movie.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
It was Pope Gregory I that claimed Mary of Magdala was a sex worker, some 450 years after her death. That was the time when the priesthood came under all male control. Also, the pope did not want Mary of Magdala to have the same status as the Virgin Mary.
In fact, I think she was the beloved disciple of Jesus. I am open to her married to Jesus, since in Jesus time only married men could be rabbis.
Look up the Gospel of Mary. We only have two fragments, but you can get a feel for how some people felt about her shortly after the Resurrection.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Her alleged status as a sex worker is not a problem as far as I am concerned. My issue is with who claimed that and why they claimed that.
I did read an article where they interviewed a group of sex workers in Italy who complained that the Church's claim that she wasn't a sex worker meant that they were robbed of a patron saint who understood what they were going through.
Yes, I've wondered about that. There's nothing in the Bible that even suggests she was a sex worker. Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. I do firmly believe that she got that label from men who couldn't accept a woman apostle/disciple. Christianity might now be much more healthy, if they hadn't libeled her. Many, many generations of women and girls might have suffered less, been allowed to live, been valued for who they were.
But I hesitate to unreservedly wipe away the label, because it's been helpful to some women.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Gramps--
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
In fact, I think she was the beloved disciple of Jesus. I am open to her married to Jesus, since in Jesus time only married men could be rabbis.
Way back when the book "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" came out, I was incensed at the idea of Jesus and Mary Magdalene being an item. However, I've gradually come to a place where I'd actually be happy for them, if they'd had that. I don't know if they *did*, and I'm not pushing it, but I think it could be a good thing.
I have more difficulty with the idea of them having kids. Would the kids be demi-deities? Would they be ok in this world? How should they be treated? Would their descendants be demi-deities, too?
As to Mary Mag being the Beloved Disciple: I'd be ok with that. I wonder if da Vinci was, too? John in "The Last Supper" looks awfully feminine.
quote:
Look up the Gospel of Mary. We only have two fragments, but you can get a feel for how some people felt about her shortly after the Resurrection.
Thanks for this. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Her alleged status as a sex worker is not a problem as far as I am concerned. My issue is with who claimed that and why they claimed that.
I did read an article where they interviewed a group of sex workers in Italy who complained that the Church's claim that she wasn't a sex worker meant that they were robbed of a patron saint who understood what they were going through.
They still have St Mary of Egypt.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Her alleged status as a sex worker is not a problem as far as I am concerned. My issue is with who claimed that and why they claimed that.
I did read an article where they interviewed a group of sex workers in Italy who complained that the Church's claim that she wasn't a sex worker meant that they were robbed of a patron saint who understood what they were going through.
They always have S Mary of Egypt as a backup patron.
A lesson to read the whole thread before responding to what I've read so far.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
The film world has never had much respect for either history or the original text in making other films. And controversy sells seats. So it's reasonable to expect the worst of them on this one.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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hatless
Shipmate
# 3365
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Posted
Since church people including popes and painters working for church patrons have felt so free to interpret Mary, shouldn’t a new film be welcomed, the more so if it is creative and original? My anxiety is that the film will be timidly reverential and miss the chance to be theologically thought provoking.
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My crazy theology in novel form
Posts: 4531 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002
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Dark Knight
Super Zero
# 9415
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Posted
What hatless said.
The problem I had with the whole Dan Brown nonsense was not the suggestion that MM and Jesus were lovers. I frankly don't care whether or not they were lovers. One cannot reach this conclusion from the text as it stands, but the text as it stands has been heavily redacted, so God alone (quite literally, in this case) knows what really happened.
No, my problem with the Da Vinci Code bullshit was how bad the execution was. The book was terrible. And the premise not much better - why would anyone think it reasonable that the apparently monolithic entity the "church" ( ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ) would engage in an enormous conspiracy to conceal actual evidence of a relationship between Jesus and MM? Who gives a shit?
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So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me - A B Original: I C U
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Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).
Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
<snip>The prostitute stuff is more a reflection on the men who claimed that stuff than on Mary, or the Gospels.
Maybe. But also the consequence of a rather simplistic harmonisation of Gospel material Matthew 26.6-13, Mark 14.3-9, Luke 7.36-50, and John 12.1-8.
Matthew and Mark are surely recounting the same incident, but is Luke? Luke's anointing occurs much earlier in his telling than Matthew and Mark's - although he more or less follows the same structure as they do. The Pharisee in his account is named as Simon, but it is not indicated that he was a leper cp Matthew and Mark. The woman in Luke's account is described as having lived a sinful life.
In Matthew and Mark's accounts the house is located in Bethany, the house is named as that of Simon the Leper, although it is not clear from that that it is the same house in Bethany as that which included Mary Martha and Lazarus.
Both Luke and the longer ending of Mark describe Mary Magdalene (or Mary of Mandala) as one from whom seven demons have been driven out. Luke's reference to Mary Magdalene comes immediately after the anointing story, without him making any connection between them.
It's easy to see why conflating these accounts was attractive (and it is not (just) a matter of male prejudice), but it is also easy to see that it is a jigsaw piece which doesn't really fit, and how it plays into a madonna or prostitute binary view of women.
Thank you for the clarity here, BroJames.
This thread has spurred me to begin reading The Gospel of Mary Magdalene by Fr Seraphim Leloup (who is published under his secular name). It arrived a few weeks ago but I just haven't made the time.
I'm only as far as the preface but have learnt already that, even if the conflation of St Mary of Magdala with the unnamed repentant woman in St Luke's gospel is in fact correct, there is still nothing to make us think that she was ever a sex worker.
It seems that the term used to describe the sinful woman doesn't specifically indicate sexual sin, and is elsewhere used to refer to people who engaged in various types of sin. The word commonly used to denote a prostitute is not used of the unnamed sinful woman.
Which makes me think all the more that there really is no foundation for the idea of the Magdalene as a sex worker.
[ 05. December 2017, 08:48: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Gramps49 wrote: quote:
In fact, I think she was the beloved disciple of Jesus. I am open to her married to Jesus, since in Jesus time only married men could be rabbis.
Celibate rabbis are attested to in this period by Josephus, Pliny and Philo. There is also the prophetic tradition of living a celibate life as a declarative act (e.g. Jeremiah). Don't forget first century Judaism was far more diverse than it became subsequently.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dark Knight:
No, my problem with the Da Vinci Code bullshit was how bad the execution was. The book was terrible. And the premise not much better - why would anyone think it reasonable that the apparently monolithic entity the "church" ( ) would engage in an enormous conspiracy to conceal actual evidence of a relationship between Jesus and MM? Who gives a shit?
Oh, I absolutely agree.
The DaVinci Code is theology fiction in the same way that Star Trek is science fiction. On its face it's fairly innocuous at worst, and entertaining at best.
The difference is that most members of the general public are either sufficiently scientifically educated or else aware of the shortcomings of their own scientific knowledge to recognise Star Trek as nothing more than fiction with a foundation in scientific themes, while I'm afraid that the present culture of suspicion and lack of knowledge of traditional faith means that many people are ill-equipped to recognise the fiction of such works as Mr Brown's.
These are the people whom one overhears on public transport speaking with an air of authority about "the church" having too much money, when in reality they have probably not only never served as a church treasurer or on any church council, but likely hardly ever darken the doorway of a church at all, and have no possible way of knowing what church finances look like. They just regurgitate what they heard someone bitter about religion say one time and decide it must be true.
It may seem completely impossible to you, and to me, and to most people reading this thread, and to most people with even the most rudimentary knowledge of Christian history, that such a well-orchestrated cover-up as the one proposed by The DaVinci Code could be constructed and sustained for two millennia by opposing factions of Christianity that could not even agree which way to face at a urinal. However, beyond belief, this is precisely what many people accept without question.
[ 05. December 2017, 09:28: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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wild haggis
Shipmate
# 15555
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Posted
Hang on a minute.................
This is a film not Scripture; films are fiction (even when they pretend to be based on life)! You know what Hollywood is like, anything to make a sexy story. You can bet too the script is written by a man!
There is simply not enough info in the Bible bout MM. The rest is conjecture = fiction.
Watch the film if you like but don't base you beliefs on Hollywood tinsel.
Weinstein should have taught us that, if nothing else. Hollywood seems to thrive on sex and doing women down.
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wild haggis
Posts: 166 | From: Cardiff | Registered: Mar 2010
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wild haggis:
Hollywood seems to thrive on...doing women down.
Have you seen this?
I hadn't realised until I saw this that Gone Girl is her work. Awesomeness.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
Since church people including popes and painters working for church patrons have felt so free to interpret Mary, shouldn’t a new film be welcomed, the more so if it is creative and original? My anxiety is that the film will be timidly reverential and miss the chance to be theologically thought provoking.
If this was going to be an art house film then it might risk being 'theologically thought provoking', but theology isn't what gives a film mass-market appeal.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Her alleged status as a sex worker is not a problem as far as I am concerned. My issue is with who claimed that and why they claimed that.
I did read an article where they interviewed a group of sex workers in Italy who complained that the Church's claim that she wasn't a sex worker meant that they were robbed of a patron saint who understood what they were going through.
They always have S Mary of Egypt as a backup patron.
A lesson to read the whole thread before responding to what I've read so far.
Not at all. I had read the whole thread (some posts twice!) but I wanted to make a comment which I thought might be of interest. One of the lovely (or fearful-- take your pick) aspects of discussion boards is the opportunity it provides for digression.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
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Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Her alleged status as a sex worker is not a problem as far as I am concerned. My issue is with who claimed that and why they claimed that.
I did read an article where they interviewed a group of sex workers in Italy who complained that the Church's claim that she wasn't a sex worker meant that they were robbed of a patron saint who understood what they were going through.
They always have S Mary of Egypt as a backup patron.
A lesson to read the whole thread before responding to what I've read so far.
Not at all. I had read the whole thread (some posts twice!) but I wanted to make a comment which I thought might be of interest. One of the lovely (or fearful-- take your pick) aspects of discussion boards is the opportunity it provides for digression.
I'm sorry for my lack of clarity: I meant that it was a lesson for me.
I accidentally repeated what you had already said.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
Was the demonic possession Mary Magdalene suffered before encountering Jesus linked to mental illness or seizures as has been conjectured with other possessed people healed in the gospels? Or did it have something to do with having been possessed by demons for having gone down an evil path? What exactly does demonic possession, unspecified, mean in the Gospels?
IIRC, no where in the Bible is there the suggestion that demonic possession leads to sexual promiscuity. In all the situations I can recall, the demon-possessed person could not manage to take care of himself or engaged in self-destructive behavior.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by wild haggis:
You can bet too the script is written by a man!
Well, not entirely. The attribution for "writer" is given to Helen Edmundson and Phillipa Goslett, neither of whom is a man AFAIK. But, of course, every film has revisions and edits and bridging scenes, etc. etc. etc. that can be written by a small army of people and I imagine some of them will turn out to be men.
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Some of the illnesses suffered by people healed by Jesus certainly seem to be what we would term epilepsy* or schizophrenia.
We, of course, can't see these incidents through the eyes or minds of those present at the time.
IJ
*I know whereof I speak. Seizures cause one to lose control, and feel as though something - or someone - else has taken over.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Pangolin Guerre
Shipmate
# 18686
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Posted
As an aside, inspired by Golden Key's use of the word "libelled", I'll chime in with a defence of sex workers. GK is undoubtedly correct that the men who propagated the story of Mary Magdalene's career sought to besmirch her; but having known a few sex workers and, on one occasion being assisted by one after my being bashed, I find them no less, and often more, caring than the general run of humanity. If St MM was a prostitute once or always, I experience no discomfort. How Hollywood treats the issue may prove a different matter.
Posts: 758 | From: 30 arpents de neige | Registered: Nov 2016
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Is it just me or is the term "sex worker" problematic. Does anyone really want this as a job? Does anyone start selling sex except if in duress and feeling there is no other way? Certainly the word "prostitute" isn't neutral, and "whore" and "hooker" may be worse, but "sex worker" does not work.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Does anyone really want this as a job? Does anyone start selling sex except if in duress and feeling there is no other way?
Yes and yes. It may not be the more normal situation, but there are those who want to do this.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Is it just me or is the term "sex worker" problematic. Does anyone really want this as a job? Does anyone start selling sex except if in duress and feeling there is no other way?
What Nick Tamen said.
Many people go into the pornography industry and various forms of escort work because it's something they enjoy and want to do. Additionally, the latter in particular can be very lucrative without having to put much effort into finding work. Far from being something they resort to out of desperation, it's something many people do because it pays much better than your standard 9-5 job. With the right client base, they could easily be earning £1500 per week.
In the past I have had friends in just that situation and today I have friends who look back on their pasts in the sex industry with nostalgia now that age has robbed them of their desirability for the role and replaced it with other life responsibilities.
I'm not trying to glorify it, and it's something I would struggle to engage in, but I am aware that we can't look at sex workers and automatically assume that pity and remedial action is what they desire. It might be the case for some but others find the suggestion alien and offensive.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Her alleged status as a sex worker is not a problem as far as I am concerned. My issue is with who claimed that and why they claimed that.
As somebody mentioned above MM was one of the women who supported Jesus financially and I do have a problem with portraying Jesus as a pimp.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Is it just me or is the term "sex worker" problematic. Does anyone really want this as a job? Does anyone start selling sex except if in duress and feeling there is no other way? Certainly the word "prostitute" isn't neutral, and "whore" and "hooker" may be worse, but "sex worker" does not work.
I have a suspicion that one knows more people in the Oldest Profession than one is aware of. Of the three in my acquaintance, one fell into it to pay for her habit--- with much heroism, she is out of it and in a more regular profession. Of the other two, it was a professional choice for one, and a lark for the other. I find the phenomenon quite bizarre, but they do not. For statistical purposes, two of the three are confirmed Anglicans.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
In the US, AIUI, sex workers wind up in that work because they're trafficked (bought, deceived, threatened (e.g., school girls, because their families are threatened) etc.)); desperate for money (survival, college); survivors of childhood sexual abuse (acting out, because they were already treated like sex workers, or running away from the abuser), etc.
There may well be some who think it's somehow going to be fun and glamorous. I doubt they think that for long.
FYI: there's a lot of trafficking here in the SF Bay Area.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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