Thread: chasing the Black Dog - a depression support thread Board: All Saints / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 
Despite my venlafaxine working very well for me for several months, stress over student finance has resulted in some breakthrough depression and I can't help feeling like a failure. Coupled with me having no clean clothes thanks to a lack of money for laundry, and well, lecture attendance has not been brilliant. Any advice for talking to tutors without feeling like a complete idiot?

for anyone else facing the beast of depression
 

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Posted by Robert Armin (# 182) on :
 
May your lecturer understand about the pressure depression brings.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Get yourself to student services asap:

1. Depression is a disability
2. things can be done
3. the earlier they know it is an issue the more that can be done

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Get yourself to student services asap:

1. Depression is a disability
2. things can be done
3. the earlier they know it is an issue the more that can be done

Jengie

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I have an appointment with the mental health team tomorrow afternoon.
 

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Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :
 
The SoF Private Board Waving Not Drowning is a good/better place to ask questions like this and get support.

The link is on top of the page and the board is the last one listed. Contact Esmeralda for access. It'll probably take a few days. It's worthwhile joining anyway.
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
As a tutor who suffers from depression herself, I always encourage my students to let me know what is going on in their lives so I can assist them in any way I can. I agree that student services are the way to go and am glad you have an appointment.
I hope and pray that you get the support you need for a full recovery
 

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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
The SoF Private Board Waving Not Drowning is a good/better place to ask questions like this and get support.

The link is on top of the page and the board is the last one listed. Contact Esmeralda for access. It'll probably take a few days. It's worthwhile joining anyway.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Get yourself to student services asap:

1. Depression is a disability
2. things can be done
3. the earlier they know it is an issue the more that can be done

Jengie

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I have an appointment with the mental health team tomorrow afternoon.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Get yourself to student services asap:

1. Depression is a disability
2. things can be done
3. the earlier they know it is an issue the more that can be done

Jengie

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I have an appointment with the mental health team tomorrow afternoon.

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Good!

Jengie

p.s. Student Services at my University know I suffer from Depression even though my PhD supervisor doesn't. It was noted in case I had a relapse. I have if anything got better during my doctorate.

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I have also made a doctor's appointment for Friday, I will ask about possibly increasing my medication dosage (I'm on a fairly low dosage as it is).
 

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Posted by Mrs Shrew (# 8635) on :
 
After two and a bit years free from depression, I am really struggling after being made unemployed in the summer.

I had a particularly awful day on Friday last week, which convinced me that I need help again. I am seeing my gp tomorrow afternoon.

I'm slightly worried as I have tried a lot of different meds in the past, and the ones which worked best had side effects which I am not prepared to put up with this time. I'm hoping for a different plan this time.

(Edited because I can't subtract 2009 from 2012...)

[ 15. October 2012, 22:22: Message edited by: Mrs Shrew ]
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
Hi gang. I'm just coming to accept that this is a permanent part of my MS. (the docs, by contrast, have been trying to get through to me since my diagnosis. I'm stubborn.) in my case, it shows on more of the anxiety side, but it all gets mixed together. I went in thursday and now have meds. I really hope it helps. In my case, its so out of control I'm at risk of losing my house. Here, anyway, there is so much social stigma that theres no way I can use the illness as an explanation. I might just have screwed myself. We'll see.
 

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Posted by Sir Pellinore (# 12163) on :
 
It might be worthwhile, in consultation with your GP, considering both Cognitive Behaviour Therapy and the Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction pioneered by Jon Kabat-Zinn, Mrs Shrew. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Kabat-Zinn

I'm sorry you're having such a problem with depression and the same goes for Jade Constable and others. It is a terrible scourge.

Orfeo's suggestion as to the private board is a good one.

May I wish you the very best?
 

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Posted by Horatio Harumph (# 10855) on :
 
As well as also recommending/suggesting Waving Not Drowning on here, there is a site and organisation that has been recently set up, and seems to be doing good things called Black Dog Tribe, you can find it at Black Dog Tribe
They have a forum, are active on twitter (not sure about FB) and also some brilliant articles etc.
It covers mental health illness so had a wide area, but depression is one of them

HH x
(edited to fix link code)

[ 15. October 2012, 22:38: Message edited by: Horatio Harumph ]
 

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Posted by recklessrat (# 17243) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Get yourself to student services asap:

1. Depression is a disability
2. things can be done
3. the earlier they know it is an issue the more that can be done

Jengie

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I have an appointment with the mental health team tomorrow afternoon.

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Hi Jade,
I hope your appointment went well.

I experienced depression and anxiety at uni and looking back on it, the one thing I would say is to get support and get plenty of people on your side as soon as possible- mental health team, GP, uni counselling, chaplain etc. I often put off asking for help and talking to people because I was too scared and it did me no favours whatsoever!
 

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Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
Jade

Like others, I'm a lecturer who suffers from depression.

Talking to your tutor about it will be shit...but turning up in May and trying to do something about it then will be much, much shitter - generally it'll be too late. So well done for getting on with things.

Specific things he/she may be able to do for you, include

* helping you get the right balance between pushing yourself a bit to study hard stuff, whilst not overdoing it and collapsing in a pile of self-loathing. This sometimes means regular meetings, and you should have a personal tutor to help with this. If your department is shit at this (they can be...staff can be numpties at a shit university, or so stressed out about their government research beauty-contest grading (REF) at a good one that they try hard not to meet students) then you can use the student adviser / NUS angle to provide a bit of leverage.


* suggesting which bits are core, and which you might (academic euphemism coming up) leave for a while, until you have a little more time to come back to them.

Most depressives are neurotic ("I'm so stupid and know nothing"), which at least a decent tutor can help with. Thank God you're not character-disordered ("I already know everything") - rare, but generally a lost cause

Don't worry about smelling. Currently I (in work) smell...of Butane. It reeks. I've been cutting up old gas cylinders. but I'm in engineering, where smelling bad has a long and distiguished pedigree.

(edit to add - your sig formed the frontpiece to my PhD Thesis. What a verse..."and too much study will wear you out" (GNB))

[ 16. October 2012, 17:19: Message edited by: mark_in_manchester ]
 

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Posted by Jade Constable (# 17175) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by mark_in_manchester:
Jade

Like others, I'm a lecturer who suffers from depression.

Talking to your tutor about it will be shit...but turning up in May and trying to do something about it then will be much, much shitter - generally it'll be too late. So well done for getting on with things.

Specific things he/she may be able to do for you, include

* helping you get the right balance between pushing yourself a bit to study hard stuff, whilst not overdoing it and collapsing in a pile of self-loathing. This sometimes means regular meetings, and you should have a personal tutor to help with this. If your department is shit at this (they can be...staff can be numpties at a shit university, or so stressed out about their government research beauty-contest grading (REF) at a good one that they try hard not to meet students) then you can use the student adviser / NUS angle to provide a bit of leverage.


* suggesting which bits are core, and which you might (academic euphemism coming up) leave for a while, until you have a little more time to come back to them.

Most depressives are neurotic ("I'm so stupid and know nothing"), which at least a decent tutor can help with. Thank God you're not character-disordered ("I already know everything") - rare, but generally a lost cause

Don't worry about smelling. Currently I (in work) smell...of Butane. It reeks. I've been cutting up old gas cylinders. but I'm in engineering, where smelling bad has a long and distiguished pedigree.

(edit to add - your sig formed the frontpiece to my PhD Thesis. What a verse..."and too much study will wear you out" (GNB))

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Thanks. We do have personal tutors but they are dealt out centrally so I don't know who mine is and they may not be from my department (social sciences, I'm doing Politics BA). My student welfare cheque clears tomorrow, yippee, so I will actually have money for laundry. The worst thing is that all my lectures/seminars are clumped together into two days (three 2hr sessions on Monday, two sessions on Friday and one on Tuesday) instead of being spread out which I think is making it harder.

I'm seeing my GP on Friday but had to rebook my slot with the mental health team for next Tuesday as I had an emergency dentist appointment - thanks wisdom tooth

[ 16. October 2012, 21:04: Message edited by: Jade Constable ]
 

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Posted by Mrs Shrew (# 8635) on :
 
I was very lucky with personal tutors at university, but even if you don't find them as helpful as you would hope for, you might try the student support centre or chaplaincy as they may well have experienced staff or volunteers who know who to contact and how to get help.

I hope it goes well with your gp on friday.

I had the slightly disconcerting experience of having two medical students taking my appointment (supervised and assisted by my gp), which was a bit intimidating. However, they were very helpful. I have started the antidepressants they gave me today, but more helpfully they are also referring me for talking therapy, which I think will be more useful in my case.
 

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Posted by Sober Preacher's Kid (# 12699) on :
 
Venlafaxine is great, I'm a 225 mg/day man myself.

So many things happened at once in 2008 that I was nearly done. CBT is great, I'm much better now.

Unemployment has been an irritant (though not the only one). When I was rejected from a government department hiring plan for failing a test portion I thought I did well on, I fought back. For once, I was able to fight back under the law.

That department picked the wrong candidate to mess with.
 

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Posted by Barefoot Friar (# 13100) on :
 
My fiancée is suffering from depression, and I've been feeling a bit low, myself. Mainly because I wish I could help her more than I've been able to. But I have my own problems that seem rather larger than I suppose they really are, and that contributes.

I will pray for all of you on this thread. I can't offer more than that, since I'm not a doctor. Blessings upon you all.
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
for those who've had their illness cause them to be dysfunctional in life - how the hell do you explain it to people? I'm in this shitty situation where I have a meeting coming up where I'll be chewed out but good for the stupid behavior that is caused by the anxiety. I don't know how to say, essentially, "yes, I've behaved like a dysfunctional child; and yes, I'd be angry if I were you, too. But so you know, there's this problem..."

I don't want to either sound like I'm asking for special favors (too damn late for that) and giving excuses, or sound like I'm somehow incapable of functioning outside of a loony bin. At the same time, I'd like them to understand that none of my screw ups were some intentional disregard for them or that I was trying to screw them over. I'm only just coming to terms with this being a wiring issue more than a character flaw, myself. And GAD isn't really even a known entity around here. Do I say it's like I have a phobia of everything?

and yet, I'm golden on stage. that goes against me. people think that since I don't have stage fright then I must be SO BRAVE and nothing frightens me. but it's so untrue. I'm frightened of damn near everything. just not performing. give me a script and let me be SOMEONE ELSE and I can do it all day long. I could play anywhere. performance, no problem. Calling a bill collector? sends me into a full-on adrenalin pumping fit and I'm hiding in my house and not answering the phone for days.

I'm a mess. and I just don't know how to do this. It's like the alcoholic thing - I need to own up to my mistakes. At the same time, letting them yell at me and hate on me is going to send me right into my little hole of hell.

Anyone have advice on how to explain the depression/anxiety/mania thing to those you've wronged?
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Write down what you want to say - do a script so that you can refer to it and come back to it if they divert you from it. You are going there to perform and that is something you're good at, so perform for them.

You could try kicking off the meeting by saying "before you start your bit can I just say this..." and then launch into the script. It is what I have to do to survive lots of stuff - I have a brief meeting with a bureaucrat later this morning and I already have butterflies even though I know he won't say anything difficult!
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
Write down what you want to say - do a script so that you can refer to it and come back to it if they divert you from it. You are going there to perform and that is something you're good at, so perform for them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jade Constable:
My problem is that I find friendships very difficult to keep going when depressed ... it does seem very unfair that the time when I really need friends is the time when I can't help but push them away.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dormouse:
What do people think of the animation in this blog post about the Black Dog?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dormouse:
What do people think of the animation in this blog post about the Black Dog?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I have known for a couple of weeks that he was lurking and the conditions were right for him - I hope I have sent him on his way but the conditions remain the same.

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Posted by deusluxmea (# 15765) on :
 
Had bad luck with therapists. Just had a third session with someone who advertised as a social work specializing in CBT. Instead, she's been dishing out new age nonsense about herbs, chakras and shamanism. Oh, and thanks for dismissing my feelings and for telling me all about your political opinions. Real f**king helpful.
 

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Posted by The Weeder (# 11321) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by deusluxmea:
Had bad luck with therapists. Just had a third session with someone who advertised as a social work specializing in CBT. Instead, she's been dishing out new age nonsense about herbs, chakras and shamanism. Oh, and thanks for dismissing my feelings and for telling me all about your political opinions. Real f**king helpful.

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quote:

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Venlafaxine is great, I'm a 225 mg/day man myself.

So many things happened at once in 2008 that I was nearly done. CBT is great, I'm much better now.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dormouse:
What do people think of the animation in this blog post about the Black Dog?

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Not a lot. The message is good – the words are useful and helpful, but the cartoon makes the Black Dog actually look quite cute and like something you wouldn't mind having around. Especially at the end when he's sitting in the palm of the narrator’s hand and he just looks rather sweet.

But I suppose a version with a harder and more malicious creature might not work. Personally, I don't think the Black Dog is a particularly good analogy. A spider might be more like it: something that spins its web in dark corners unnoticed at first, can paralyse its victims and suck their energies away, and scuttles if you shine bright light on it. The Dementors are a good analogy too.

Exspecto patronum everyone! May there be light in your darkness, and hope and joy come to you.
 

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Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Caissa:
I have SAD which tends to kick in as the days get shorter. Need to be really vigilant not to feed it.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ariel:
Personally, I don't think the Black Dog is a particularly good analogy. A spider might be more like it: something that spins its web in dark corners unnoticed at first, can paralyse its victims and suck their energies away, and scuttles if you shine bright light on it. The Dementors are a good analogy too.

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I've never found the Black Dog a good analogy. I'd love a black dog! Ideally a pug or a poddle.

I think the illustrations in Shaun Tan's 'The Red Tree' are good visual metaphors. I often picture depression as being inside the bottle, alone on the beach.
 

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Posted by Mad Cat (# 9104) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Armin:
SPK:

quote:

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Venlafaxine is great, I'm a 225 mg/day man myself.

So many things happened at once in 2008 that I was nearly done. CBT is great, I'm much better now.

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To state the obvious, we are all different. Venlafaxine is helping me, now I'm on a higher dosage, but I've spent much of this last year working with CBT and it drove me crazy - I left every session feeling worse than when I went in. (And because it is the main approach in my area I'm having a very long wait to see one of the few people around who is qualified in something different. I hope that ends soon, and that whoever I finally see is useful - I am so tired of living with fear.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by Caissa:
I have SAD which tends to kick in as the days get shorter. Need to be really vigilant not to feed it.

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quote:

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Beyond blue and black dog are both very good sites (Australian). So is seeing your Doc. And so is telling a friend or family member or minister.

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quote:

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Originally posted by St. Stephen the Stoned:
I don't see it as a black dog. More like a wave I can see on the horizon. It's just a dark line now. I don't know whether it'll turn out to be a little ripple or a fuck-off big tsunami.

The last one was a sizeable breaker, but I'd seen it coming and was running fast enough not to get too wet.

I like doggies.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
depression isn't a simple thing to understand or easy to cope with.

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quote:

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Originally posted by North East Quine:
I have a friend who has a long history of depression. I have had many a coffee with her trying to be generally supportive. Recently I have been concerned that her perception of reality is going off-kilter. I'm starting to feel out of my depth and worried I could actually be harmful. She sees her doctor regularly, but I don't know if he sees her enough to pick up what I'm picking up.
Suggestions?

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My brother was seriously off-kilter for quite a long time, and I was always worried that I might say or do the wrong thing - and, from time to time, I did say things that were unhelpful, but he recently told me that what he remembers from the worst times was that I kept contact with him and did 'normal stuff' like going out to the pub with him. It meant a lot more to him at the time than I thought - he seemed fairly indifferent.

Although your friend's doctor won't discuss her with you, I don't think there could be any objection to you flagging up your concern.

Anselmina - I guess there's bound to be a kick-back. I hope you can work through it and that it turns out well for you.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I have a very dear relative with a psychotic illness and we've always done normal stuff. But I've never felt confused or out of my depth with her.

Whereas my friend seems to be "all over the place" and I don't understand it or know how to react.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Firstly all mental illness puts someone out of kilter with what is commonly held reality*. However in my experience most people fight very strongly to keep some sense/appearance of contact with commonly held reality.

Two things follow from this. Firstly that it is not necessarily psychosis (which is I think a particular way of being out of kilter). Secondly if the person is not managing to keep the contact, they are probably quite seriously ill.

However I am no expert on dealing with mental illness. I do however know that I am grateful for the close friend who told me explicitly to tell the doctor when I started to enter this state. Even more fortunate that she was one of two friends who could tell me to do this and I would because I acknowledged they had earned the right to.

Jengie

*One problem I have is that it is not clear to me that some people whose mental state is off might not actually have a more accurate sense of reality than the healthy population. Our day to day existence involves a fair bit of self delusion.
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
Just bumping this thread up. Looking for some very vague advice, about how to be supportive to someone within my house group at church. I've been in house group about 6 months, and about 70% of that time this person has given me a lift. We therefore have texted most weeks to make practical arrangements. He's just been diagnosed with depression, and isn't coming for the moment. Any thoughts on how to be supportive would be appreciated. It sort of feels like I should text/ e-mail but have nothing to communicate. I also know from friends in the past that within the church you can become invisible when you have depression, and aren't around as much.
Any thoughts people?
 

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Posted by infinite_monkey (# 11333) on :
 
I think I'd send a message letting the person know, hey, you've been there for me when I needed a ride. I appreciate that; I appreciate you. And if this is a time when you could use someone's support, I'd like to be there. I might also, depending on how well I know the person, give little bits of contact every few days--with social media, that's as easy as "please enjoy this adorable cat picture on your facebook wall", but maybe it would be little anecdotes from your group that you email him? I dunno--just something little to remind the person that he's still "in the loop" despite the depression.

[ 22. April 2013, 14:32: Message edited by: infinite_monkey ]
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
If you've been texting, carry on. Only now it can be things like "Just wanted to say I'm thinking of you," "Praying for you," or "If you ever want to get coffee, let me know..."

Do this even once and it will help immeasurably (saith she who is currently in the depths of depression herself). Do this every week and the person will eventually tell you how much your texts meant to him, and you will be left and saying, "Aw shucks, it weren't nothing..."
 

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Posted by comet (# 10353) on :
 
"I'm thinking of you. Here if you need me."
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
Thanks guys. I guess it's the remembering to stay in contact every week or so, even when I've not a lot to say that I need to remember.
 

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Posted by infinite_monkey (# 11333) on :
 
Warning there are cuss words:

This, from the blog Hyperbole and a Half, is perhaps the bravest, most hilarious, most insightful first-person account of depression I've ever come across.

Sharing it in the hopes that others find it useful, in terms of either understanding a loved one or feeling less alone oneself.

[ 10. May 2013, 02:49: Message edited by: infinite_monkey ]
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
That resonates almost too much - thanks.
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
Just read that, it's a great help for trying to get an insight in to the world of depression. Thanks for sharing.
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
Just thought I would check in and see how people are doing?
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Infinite Monkey I just read the link you posted (normally I couldn't because of being in dial-up). It's brilliant. I felt that someone had posted my life

Thanks, Huia
 

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Posted by PeteC (# 10422) on :
 
I swept this up, as I may be an intermittent visitor.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
At the moment it seems I am everybody's Go To person - a role I've played quite a bit over my lifetime - and sometimes it just gets All Too Much!

I feel like screaming I love you all, now Fuck Off!

Of course, I don't, I just smile and carry on although I am trying to spend more time out of the house. Going for a walk is great therapy - see the thread elsewhere and is a darned sight more use than retreating to bed, as I did this afternoon.

I am fairly adamant that I don't want to go back on the meds, after many years off them but sometimes I just need to vent!

Thanks for listening.
 

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Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Over the past couple of weeks, I have suddenly dipped back into more marked symptoms than I can remember experiencing for a number of years - crap sleep, lack of concentration, ridiculous tearfulness, etc. I think one of the main causes is work, but now I'm in a vicious circle. I have an important report overdue. My symptoms are so bad, I'm not getting anything done on the report. Worry about not doing the report is making my symptoms worse. I've managed to get a referral to Occupational Health, but I don't think anybody in my team feels well supported at work at present. Last week I read some of the disciplinary hearings on the Health and Care Professionals Council website. I don't want to get struck off by the regulator. I can identify for myself that that's catastrophising, but I don't seem to be able to do anything about it.
 

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Posted by Francophile (# 17838) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Zoey:
Over the past couple of weeks, I have suddenly dipped back into more marked symptoms than I can remember experiencing for a number of years - crap sleep, lack of concentration, ridiculous tearfulness, etc. I think one of the main causes is work, but now I'm in a vicious circle. I have an important report overdue. My symptoms are so bad, I'm not getting anything done on the report. Worry about not doing the report is making my symptoms worse. I've managed to get a referral to Occupational Health, but I don't think anybody in my team feels well supported at work at present. Last week I read some of the disciplinary hearings on the Health and Care Professionals Council website. I don't want to get struck off by the regulator. I can identify for myself that that's catastrophising, but I don't seem to be able to do anything about it.

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Big hug Zoey. I had a similar experience in 1985 when work got on top of me and I feared that my then profession's regulatory body would take action. I sought help and things got better. It's a long time ago, but I still remember the panic. My fears were, I now realise, overblown. You seem to be doing the right things, keep reaching out for help.
 

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Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on :
 
Since completing my CBT course I've been doing quite well. However this weekend I got some sort of flu-type thing that put me in bed most of the weekend. It seems this also triggered a relapse of some of my anxiety/depression symptoms. I think it must've been feeling ill and alone.

I keep telling myself that I'll feel better when I feel better. I just hope that's true. It sucks to be ill but it sucks more to think it's another thing I've got to watch out for.
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Odd one but seems to work. When I am ill with colds etc I along with tea tree oil and eucalyptus oil put jasmine oil in the mix. The reason for doing that is jasmine oil seems to support my mood so I do not go down so low.

I treat low mood as one of the symptoms of a cold.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Starbug (# 15917) on :
 
I don't know if this is depression or something different, but I have been struggling lately. I feel trapped in my job and there have been various disciplinary issues with my staff which I'm struggling to deal with. HR haven't been very supportive – they’re so afraid of tribunals that they keep erring on the side of caution and making it hard to take action. How many chances can you keep giving the same person?

It’s mainly one person who is causing the problem, but this morning I had to speak to another member of the team about something that he did on Friday. Before I met with him, I ended up sobbing in the loo because I was dreading the thought of yet another 'informal advice' conversation. I can't keep doing this. This person is supposed to be my friend outside work and I want to scream at him ‘You are not being my friend!’

I don't know if I'm depressed exactly, but I looked at the cartoon that infinite_monkey posted and I recognised the ‘nothing really matters’ feeling that it talks about. I sometimes find myself wondering what the point is – you live and you die and then, so what?* I don’t think I believe in God any more (I don’t think about him very much) and that doesn’t seem to bother me as much as it should.

Sorry, I’m not expecting a diagnosis or anything and I suspect I should see my GP. I just wondered if this sounds anything like depressions, as I feel stuck and can’t see what to do about it.

*I haven't had any suicidal thoughts, though.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Yep, see the doctor.
 

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Posted by Silver Swan (# 17957) on :
 
I'm not sure if I am depressed but I am seriously a-motivated. Getting behind with the housework feeds into a loop - the house being untidy depresses me and because I'm depressed I don't feel like tackling it. I waste many hours each day on the computer -a pity it is such an unending source of entertainment.
I worry a lot about my adult son who spent a month in hospital in Oct/Nov being treated for depression and since then has quit the medication and cancelled the visits from the case worker and only comes out of his room to collect meals and for showers and occasional medical appointments. He will talk a little with me but doesn't volunteer anything and doesn't like to be questioned. He doesn't read or watch tv, listen to radio or use the computer and when I asked him if the medication helped him to think more clearly he replied there is nothing to think about. He isn't very unhappy but rather just flat.
For a while, when he was getting medical intervention, I kept thinking it was like leading a horse to water but not being able to make him drink but then I made what seemed to be a breakthrough and I decided I need to help him ride it through rather than try to lead him at all. I don't know whether I am doing the right thing but it seems there is nothing else I can do except have patience.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Silver Swan I think there's an Australian website called something like "The Black Dog" that may offer some suggestions about possible help for your son.

For what it's worth, my life when I am depressed sounds like your description of how things are for you.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Silver Swan (# 17957) on :
 
Huia, thank you for that advice. It would be good to speak with somebody about J and no doubt they could help me as well.

Peace be with all who suffer depression and with those who love and care for them.
 

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Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Silver Swan, a couple of links for you.

Beyond Blue

I had a black dog short video

You may have seen both of these. The video is really good. BAsed on a book of the same name which is also good. One of my sons is bi-polar and was very depressed. After seeing this he realised he definitely needed help. He had been on medication but hated it and the psychiatrist would not change it. So he stopped taking it and for years self medicated one way or another. Went to local GP after he realised he needed something. It's been a slow journey but he is now heaps better and admits he is better. He also realises the medication is almost certainly a lifelong thing.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Sorry SS, The Black Dog is a NZ site. I have heard good things about "Beyond Blue" too.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Silver Swan (# 17957) on :
 
Thank you, Lothlorien, for those links. I'd seen the black dog video before but watched it again. I see that Beyond Blue has a forum and phone service. I'll give them a try. (I'd heard of Beyond Blue but somehow thought it was only for people in Victoria.)
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
So tired I just want to switch myself off
 

---

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Am job searching, recently had a hope/ hope dashed, and was doing the whole stiff upper lip jokey breezy thing, and then over the weekend I just --crashed. Intermittent crying spells, lack of initiative. And I am having a hard time pulling out of it. I feel like I am in jail.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Kelly))
 

---

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Very, gracious of you, EM, considering I just stepped over you. Sorry about that, I was in a state. Hope you are hanging in there.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Erroneous Monk I hope you cam get some rest.

Kelly So what's wrong with American employers? - you have so much to offer.

(yes I know it doesn't feel like it now, but I've read your attitude towards the kids and they deserve someone like you in their lives).

Huia
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
For me, physical symptoms are often the first sign of low mood. Still tired, deeply tired, like even my bones are tired. And I have a persistent pain in my left shoulder. It's always in the same place. I should be doing something to help myself, to fight it off. But I'm so tired, deeply tired...(repeat to fade)
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
My SADS has been alleviated this winter by dropping alcohol from my diet, losing 11 lbs, learning to curl and starting a new job. Unfortunately, I can't do this every year. I hate it when the black dog nips at my heels.

[ 11. March 2014, 12:11: Message edited by: Caissa ]
 

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Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 
From a purely physical point of view, would one of those light-box thingies (or daylight light-bulbs) be any help in alleviating the SADS?
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
My SAD faded dramatically when I no longer had to deal with the short winter days in UK - mind you this coincided with my retirement so difficult to say which had the greater effect on my affect.
 

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Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by piglet:
From a purely physical point of view, would one of those light-box thingies (or daylight light-bulbs) be any help in alleviating the SADS?

---

Having a SAD clock has made a huge difference for me. Much more than the lamp that I have on my desk. As well as gently &slowly lighting up in the morning, there is also the option for the light to gently and slowly fade out at night.
 

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Posted by Theophania (# 16647) on :
 
I've got to get through this, and I will get through this, and I'm working at maintaining the anger and the BORED OF BEING ILL because really, a large part of me wants my physical illness to get worse so I can stay in bed and not have to cope with anything.

Which is ridiculous. Must remember that.

for all.
 

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Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
I had mild SAD when I lived in New Hampshire. Someone suggested that I spend at least a half-hour outside around noon. Even when it was cloudy, enough sunlight came through to help.

This only works for mild SAD.

Moo
 

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Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
My SAD faded dramatically when I no longer had to deal with the short winter days in UK ...

---

Coming from Orkney (latitude 59°N) this made me chuckle - where you come from is definitely South.

I must confess that even after 25 years I still slightly miss both the almost night-less summers and the dark winters - I found that they balanced each other out and neither bothered me one way or the other, but perhaps I'm just lucky.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I definitely endorse Moo's idea of getting out and about at lunchtime - when working I forced myself to do this, even if it was just a walk around the Square and it certainly helped AND it made me more efficient in the afternoon.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Theophania))
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I am such an oxygen-thieving waste of space
 

---

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :
 
<sits down next to EM, offers coffee, a biscuit and a cushion>
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I have discovered that almonds have a marked effect on my mood. I had 2 days recently when I had a surge of energy and my low mood lifted. When discussing this with a friend he said he had noticed and wondered why. The only thing I could track that was common to both days was that I had eaten a lot of almonds, so I experimented and it held true for me.

I checked it out with my doctor and she said it was Ok for me to eat more almonds, with the knowledge that my potassium levels will be checked in May. Almonds have a lot of potassium, which isn't good for people with kidney problems or some diabetics. Also an allergic reaction to them isn't uncommon.

I am definitely not a doctor and I don't know how this would work for anyone else, but all I can say is that it seems to be working for me when none of the anti-depressants I've tried do. Also I have my GP's agreement to trying.

Huia

[ 18. March 2014, 01:51: Message edited by: Huia ]
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Yesterday I thought I was feeling better. Today I'm tired and hopeless and somehow disconnected from everything.
 

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Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
That's the trouble with the black dog - sneaks up on you.
Also feel as though I'm stuck behind a smoky glass screen. Going to try and wallop up with a virtual lumphammer.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I don't want to feel like this anymore. But I have to make it to the weekend. After that I get some time off with my family and will probably feel better afterwards.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I'm going outside in the sun (hey, so that's what it looks like! I'd forgotten). That tends to help a bit for me. We've had so many dark days....
 

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Posted by QLib (# 43) on :
 
I've got post-viral dog at the moment, but I now realise that it's just a bigger, uglier version of a beast that's been hanging around for months.
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
Something happened a few weeks ago to bring stuff back to me from the past. Since then at most points each day I want to cry, which is really not like me. I'm coping but it does feel like only just at the moment.
 

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Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
But you are coping. Congratulations.
Any advice on dealing with the concentration span of a mayfly? Work will notice.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Today I feel like I'm playing Keepy-uppy with my mood. And I'm really shit at it. And I keep dropping it.

 

---

Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Today I feel like I'm playing Keepy-uppy with my mood. And I'm really shit at it. And I keep dropping it.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Surfing Madness:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Today I feel like I'm playing Keepy-uppy with my mood. And I'm really shit at it. And I keep dropping it.

---

I know the feeling. With all my effort I can not drop the ball at work, rest of the time not so much!

---

When I'm mugged by the past like that my strategy is to eat the most healthily I can, get the sleep and exercise I need and have bubble baths. Oh, and above all be kind to myself. Of course it doesn't alaways work, but it helps.

Huia
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Healthy eating and exercise I can do. Work and small children stand in the way of the others. But feeling a little bit lighter today. Thank you.

Prayers for those who are not feeling lighter.


 

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Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
People being shitty to me at work (not colleagues I hasten to add; not even clients) have really got me down this week, almost to the point where I think I should up my Venlafaxin dose.

for everyone
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
My final one to add to Huia's list is private writing, basically to explore the emotions. It can be an account of something but it might equally be an imaginative piece. It takes you down initially but that seems to be a price for being able to cope more. I suspect it externalises the situation.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt Black:
People being shitty to me at work (not colleagues I hasten to add; not even clients) have really got me down this week, almost to the point where I think I should up my Venlafaxin dose.

for everyone

---

For my part, I am just fucking burnt out on liking people. It seems like whenever I let my guard down and permit myself to really like a person it only gives them an opportunity to hurt me in exotic ways. I wish I had it in me to be a genuine misanthrope, I'd probably be happier.
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
Kelly it's tough but remember there are some people who genuinely care. That said I know what you mean!
 

---

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
I just wish those people were the ones with the biggest mouths in my life, if you know what I mean.
 

---

Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
Yep
 

---

Posted by Silver Swan (# 17957) on :
 
I am in a dark hole caring for my 30s son who only comes out of his room for food after we've gone to bed.
 

---

Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 

 

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Posted by Diomedes (# 13482) on :
 
Oh Silver Swan - that's hard
 

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Posted by chive (# 208) on :
 
At the moment I just feel completely crushed by life. I don't want to go out. I don't want to deal with people. I just want to curl up and lick my wounds. However this means not going to work and that is officially a Bad Thing. I need to get my head more positive pretty damn soon.
 

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Posted by stonespring (# 15530) on :
 
Hi again shipmates!

This is an apology for some unsavory posts I made a few weeks back that revealed a bit too much about my private life - like some posts I have made in the past. My mental/emotional/behavioral/personality/developmental/health issues have come back in an unfortunate way, and that has meant that school and/or work don't seem much like a possibility for me in the short term, but I am getting help and my husband and family are extremely supportive (like they always are), so I can't complain too much. I apologize for being aggressive and offensive on the Ship. I thank you for how gracious and kind so many of you are. Although I'm very loved, I'm very self-isolating and lonely, so the Ship is an invaluable resource for me that I should not abuse. Peace to all of you and I look forward to many enriching conversations with you in the future.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Big hugs for Kelly, Matt, Silver Swan, Chive and Stonespring.

And anyone else who is fighting the hound but not posting about it.



 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
The thought of returning to work next week (part-time to start with) after a couple of months off terrifies me. After talking it through with my therapist, I know what I should do and I understand why and all that ... but staying in bed is much easier.
 

---

Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by JoannaP:
The thought of returning to work next week (part-time to start with) after a couple of months off terrifies me. After talking it through with my therapist, I know what I should do and I understand why and all that ... but staying in bed is much easier.

---

All the best for next week. As someone said to me last week, getting out of bed is bed than not getting out of bed although it doesn't feel like it at the time.
 

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Posted by stonespring (# 15530) on :
 
After working up hope that maybe this time this new psychiatrist would have a new combination of drugs that would prevent crises like the current one from happening again, I hear today that he does not think any medication is likely to help given that none have helped in the past and that I've tried just about everything . He says all he can recommend is really committing to behavioral therapy - not with him, of course. And he is the second opinion! The first opinion was a psychiatrist who questioned whether I really wanted to get better. So today's a pretty crummy day. Of course I'm incredibly blessed and privileged and loved and have so much to be grateful for (and I'm talented and smart and attractive no matter how much I do with food to damage my body). But I simply can. not. feel like anything other than a steaming pile of shit. No physical exercise or mindfulness or prayer or talking to a friend or anything seems to help. I just feel like it's going to be this way until I die - and I'm young and healthy and have no desire to hurt myself so it's going to be a long, painful life . There's hope in me somewhere but I don't know where it is.

Why can't aliens abduct me and take me to a cool planet where I get to be the awesome "alien" everyone wants to meet? (As long as the aliens look like sexy humans.) And I could learn alien languages and study alien religions.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Stonespring))

I have had a number of episodes of moderate to severe depression over the last 22 years.

There have been times when I have had to force myself into any activity at all. But having been there, I would say (with the benefit of 20:20 hindsight, of course) that it was worth forcing myself, even if, at the time, I felt terrible, and the activity didn't seem to have any effect.

Just start very small. Very, very small. How about diarising some deliberate sensory experiences into your day. e.g. a few minutes barefoot on the grass. Or lighting and sniffing a scented candle. Or stroking an animal. Don't expect to enjoy it. Don't try to be mindful. Just do it, and tick the box.

I will be thinking about you.
 

---

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Another idea is if you need to sleep during the day keep the curtains open. Your body clock responds to sunlight and hopefully will register it more easily with the curtains open rather than drawn.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I have not been doing much exercise lately, can't be bothered.

I have been wondering the last few days whether I am heading into a bit of a depression - again.

I have then argued with myself that I don't have any reason to be depressed.

I then, of course, get to calling myself stupid for thinking that depression needs an excuse to rear its ugly head.

* * * *

I am now going for a walk. I shall take an umbrella in case it rains but if it does I shall probably get a little wet whatever - and that is okay. What is important is that I get some exercise and fight this @#$%^&^%$#@ black dog.

We are going to a craft fair that is on in town so I may even throw in a little bit of judicious retail therapy.
 

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Posted by Late Paul (# 37) on :
 
I hate this.

Yesterday was a great day. I felt happier than I have in a very long time. And I'm not talking about some super high just the kind of relaxed pleasant feeling that everything's generally OK. The kind of thing I think is normal for a lot of people. But in the last few years I have had precious few days like that.

Today I wake up and, well, not the worst I've been but I'm panicky and feel something bad is going to happen, or has happened. I know how to fight it and I know I have to but why does it have to be like this?

Can't I have more than one day?

"...if I hadn't seen such riches I could live with being poor"
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
I was in the audience for Any Questions last night and there was a question about mental health. The chair, Shaun Ley, asked the audience and panel to put their hands up if they had encountered depression personally - either being depressed themselves or knowing someone close who was had mental health problems. All but one of the panel, including the chair, and the vast majority of the audience put their hands up.

The conclusions were that the big problem for mental health issues is the stigmatisation of depression. That additionally isolates people and means they don't go to ask for help and hide their problems. As Val McDermid said people don't feel guilty about getting flu or the measles.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Massive hugs for WW and LP and anyone else suffering. I'm OK right now - well, work is better when I'm actually here than when I'm thinking about having to be here...

Less thinking, more doing, for me, for now.
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
I've been off for the last 6 weeks. While I know there were lots of factors contributing to my depression, I'm thinking about dropping my hours slightly, not sure from a finance point of view if that is an option.
 

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Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
We have just moved and the new place is somewhat chaotic - not helped by the stuff coming a couple of days before the furniture to put it in. I am feeling rather overwhelmed and just staying in bed is so much easier than unpacking boxes.
 

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Posted by Abigail (# 1672) on :
 
How do you know if you're suffering from depression? I mean 'real' depression, not just feeling a bit fed up and miserable.

I don't tick the right boxes for being depressed. I sleep well, I haven't lost my appetite, I'm able to work normally. But I want to cry all the time, I just can't see the point of anything and I don't really enjoy anything much.

Basically, I feel a complete failure, I'm lonely, I can't talk to people, church doesn't work for me any more and I've made a complete mess of my life. Is that depression? Or is it normal to feel 'depressed' if you're in my situation? I don't know.

None of this is new (well, apart from the church thing which is relatively new) - I've been like it all my adult life, but this last month or so it's just feeling worse.

I went through a patch like this four years ago but now I'm four years older, four more years wasted, nothing learned, nothing changed.

I've got a doctor's appointment tomorrow about another issue and I want to try and talk about this as well but I'm not sure if I can or if I should.
 

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Posted by Garasu (# 17152) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abigail:
I want to cry all the time, I just can't see the point of anything and I don't really enjoy anything much.

Basically, I feel a complete failure, I'm lonely, I can't talk to people, church doesn't work for me any more and I've made a complete mess of my life.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Adeodatus:

I've found over the past few years that it helps me to be very businesslike with the doctor. Rather than pouring out a long story of how miserable I feel, I just use the formula, "I'd like you to check me out for depression" - and the doc takes it from there.

---

What Adeodatus said, especially this last bit.

Symptoms of depression vary, if not eating was one of the signs for me I would have a sylph like figure, rather than the more sustantial body I actually have (sigh).

I hope your visit to the doctor goes well Abigail.

Huia
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Abigail, sounds like a classic case. And you do want to tell the doctor, as depression may also mean you need thyroid etc checked out.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Make some notes about all these things before you go to see the doctor and take them with you - the doctor won't mind and it really will help you to tell her/him everything.


 

---

Posted by Mr Curly (# 5518) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
Make some notes about all these things before you go to see the doctor and take them with you - the doctor won't mind and it really will help you to tell her/him everything.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Huia:

Symptoms of depression vary, if not eating was one of the signs for me I would have a sylph like figure, rather than the more sustantial body I actually have (sigh).

I hope your visit to the doctor goes well Abigail.

Huia

---

Depression symptoms are odd. Sleep can increase as well as decrease, eating can increase as well as decrease. Both changes are due to depression

Jengie
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I'm anxious and low and paranoid. Sorry.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 

 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
I'm anxious and low and paranoid. Sorry.

---

{Erroneous Monk}

There is no need to apologise - it is not your fault
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I'm looking for a bit of advice. Over the last 15 years I've had episodic depression; short, sharp periods of being incapable of functioning. The last one lasted only four days and was 18 months ago.

It's as though I'm one of those cartoon characters who runs off a cliff and is ok till they look down, then they plummet down and crash.

Hardly anybody in RL knows about this; four days in bed can be passed off as flu, or a tummy bug. Those in RL who do know have no idea of the extent to which this has been a blight on my life. My husband and I have kept it very well under wraps.

I've had counselling, just a session now and then spaced over several years, which has helped, but I've never been on anti-depressants. I have heavily self-medicated with chocolate; when I'm depressed I can look for a family size bar of chocolate and only realise I've already eaten it when I find the wrapper in the bin.

I'm now in the slightly different position of seeing a cliff edge approaching and I think I'm running towards it.

I am seriously thinking, for the first time in 15 years, of going to the doctor and seeking help. My husband thinks being pro-active now (more exercise, more fresh air etc) might do the trick and that I don't need to see a doctor.

Anyone got any thoughts?
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Frankly I'd do both!

Exercise really works for me - when I get around to doing it instead of writing about good it is for me...

AND...

you really owe it to yourself to make notes about all this and then go along to the doctor and talk about it - hopefully this will just be a heads up for Dr as the exercise will head off the cliff - every time you do the exercise just head away from the cliff.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
My counsellor encouraged me to make notes, so I did write about it 9/8/7 years ago.

How odd will it seem to the doctor to say "I've been suffering from episodic depression for 15 years, it's had a serious impact on my life, and this is the first time I've seen a doctor about it?"

(FWIW, part of the reason I haven't seen a doctor is that my GP offered me ADs "no questions asked" about 14 years ago, and though I knew she was being sympathetic, I was scared of going onto medication without exploring all my options. I didn't want a situation where a doctor said "Of course you're depressed - anyone in your situation would be - no need to discuss it - here's the prescription.)
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
I wouldn't automatically rule out short term use. I say this because my only episodes of brief - but absolutely sky-blackening - depression were due to a chemical imbalance - induced by the horse-felling dosages of hormones in the early versions of The Pill (which I was taking for dysmenorrhea).

ETA: I don't think there's anything odd in not bringing it up - if something is either intermittent, or not actually incapacitating, a lot of people are endlessly stoical. I suspect in part because we feel that, if we do go to the doctor, we'll either be dismissed as not that ill or worse, be told that it is the sign of something really bad.

[ 22. August 2014, 07:53: Message edited by: Firenze ]
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
NEQ please do see your GP. I've battled with chronic moderate-severe depression for years. Sometimes I think what, really, is the point seeing my GP e.g. for medication review or because I'm concerned that there might be an episode coming on that needs more intervention.

Then I actually do see my GP and she reminds me that how I feel matters, that she and I together are still working on it, and that we are going to keep working on it.
 

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Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
I would also advise you to see your GP; I have been really impressed by how much better the care has been this time round compared to a couple of years ago. My getting a prescription depended on my agreeing to be referred to IAPT. I know CBT does not suit everyone but I have found it very helpful - and to get it free on the NHS is just amazing!
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
My counsellor encouraged me to make notes, so I did write about it 9/8/7 years ago.

How odd will it seem to the doctor to say "I've been suffering from episodic depression for 15 years, it's had a serious impact on my life, and this is the first time I've seen a doctor about it?"

---

Doctors hear this kind of thing ALL THE TIME about all sorts of serious illnesses and will not be in the least surprised. I had to tell mine that I was showing up after depression back to age 3. You won't even get an eye roll.

As for having pills pushed at you, I found that several doctors of mine automatically assume that the patient wants an easy treatment (=pills) and are surprised and impressed when you say "but are there other treatments I could be exploring"? So don't be afraid to raise the question, it can only do good.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
About husbands--mine too actively discourages me from seeking help, I think because he's afraid of change (and him a counselor! ). Some kind of wrongly directed protective instinct, though it's not very helpful at the moment. Could you maybe just go without discussing it with him further till the deed is done?
 

---

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
Also, you might google Migraine and Depression. Seriously some forms of migraine are actually depression in disguise. Alright I am diagnosed with that type as I am highly psychosomatic and the depression happened before the migraines started. It is actually as if I condense the depression into one day per fortnight and only have to deal with very mild symptoms the rest of the time.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
NEQ, yes go and see your G.P. Also a friend of mine recommended a walk (or other exercise) everyday, and also an achievement everyday, and something that gave me pleasure everyday. Been doing this for a few weeks and the doctor things that this (along with medication) is making a difference.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
About husbands--mine too actively discourages me from seeking help, I think because he's afraid of change (and him a counselor! ). Some kind of wrongly directed protective instinct, though it's not very helpful at the moment. Could you maybe just go without discussing it with him further till the deed is done?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
He thinks I should be proactive about getting a good night's sleep rather than proactive about the depression.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
... if I could just get a couple of nights of unbroken sleep things would be much better ...

---

I'm lucky enough not to suffer very often from sleeplessness, but on the rare occasions when I do, I find taking a small bowl of cereal before going to bed helps - I'm not sure why, but it does.

Obviously this is purely from a physical, falling-asleep point of view - as others have said, if your lack of sleep is being caused by something else, you should definitely see your GP.

for finding answers.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I have no problem dropping off to sleep - the problem is that I'm waking up for an hour or so around about 3am. Last night I woke up at 4am, dozed off, was awake again at 5am and didn't really get back off to sleep after that.

I feel like I could fall asleep now, but of course I have to be up now. Coffee will be my friend. I'm kickstarting my mornings with caffeine, but not drinking coffee later than late afternoon, so that's not what's mucking up my sleep.

[ 26. August 2014, 06:39: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
 

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Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
NEQ, you're describing my normal sleep pattern....

Partly I put it down to age - I now understand why older people nap, which I didn't when I was young. I'm aware of other things - like 'overshooting' the best time to go to bed. Too late and you hit a post-midnight patch of wakefulness. Thinking actively about stuff - either good or bad - killer. A way of going back to sleep - if you have the discipline - is to think no voiced thoughts. Just let images rise in the mind. Or think about the latest dream you can remember. Or visualise a walk.

But what do I know? Most of the time my nights are a sequence of restless dozing and meanwhile an irresistible pit of profound slumber waits for me every afternoon between two and five.
 

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Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
My normal sleep pattern too, and has been since my late 20s (was my late mother's too, in her earlier years though not latterly), so it's not entirely to do with age.

I find it best to concentrate on happy things, otherwise it's very easy to slip into unpleasant thoughts. I plan a holiday, redecorate the house, change my wardrobe - whatever. I find I'm not awake enough to read or get up, which is often recommended.

M.
 

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Posted by Jenny Ann (# 3131) on :
 
NEQ - my normal sleep pattern too.

I'm never 100% sure if bad sleep causes my depression, or if my depression causes bad sleep. I know when I'm grotty (manifests as anxiety disorder with mild OCD), once I'm awake, I'm awake as 'the worries' won't shut up in my head and let me sleep. Last night's important topic was whether to have a real Christmas tree or not.

Obviously, different for everyone, but I find 'allowing' myself to have the broken sleep is an important factor. Thinking to myself 'right, well if I'm going to be awake, I'll do something I want to, it's fine' is crucial to stopping the endless cycle of worrying that I'm not asleep preventing me from sleeping.

For me, my rule is if I wake up I'm allowed 20/30 minutes to try and get back to sleep (lights off, lying down, attempting clear, black mind). If I've not drifted off in this 20 minutes I'll pick my book up and read for an hour, sometimes I'll go make a milky drink too. I find this reading is enough to switch off the thoughts in my head to get drowsy enough to sleep again.

I'm not averse to taking a sleeping pill if I've had 2 or 3 bad nights in a row - sometimes you need something to 'reset' in your head, insomnia is a self fulfilling prophecy. I take boots own version of nytol.

I have to say, I'm pretty much caffeine free, and have been since mid-teenage years (even chocolate) as I must be extra sensitive to it as any caffeine at all through the day leads to post midnight wakefulness. Also remember that booze leads to bad sleep, as does eating a protein filled meal too late in the evening. When I'm in a bad patch I tend to eat pre 7pm and nothing afterwards.

You can also put me on the list of 'go see your doctor'. I was given a referral to CBT which I didn't find useful, but I know most people do, and some pills to take in the meantime. I never took the pills (for a number of reasons - the fact they can interrupt sleep was a factor, as was the fact we've been trying to conceive a baby for 9 years and I didn't want to mess that up) but knowing they were there in the cupboard was useful. If I'm hit badly again I will ask for a prescription and take them.

Having that referral and conversation on my doctors notes means that when I go see the doctor, I'm usually asked how my anxiety is. This gives me an opportunity to assess how I'm doing and gives a heads up for anything untoward. Any other chronic, episodic, condition would be asked about - this is no difference.

But aside for all this - thoughts and prayers for a good nights sleep for you and a swift end to the current blackness.

Jen
 

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Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
You are aware of this research?

Jengie
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Thanks Jengie - I wasn't aware but it fits me to a T. When I have my period of wakefulness I don't worry about it - I may switch on the light and read or sometimes I just lie there and it's okay.
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
I get insomnia during my manic phases and I tend to get up and have a cup of tea and a read, for half hour or so.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Thank you all. I slept to 5am the last two nights, which was much better. Your advice helped me to feel more relaxed when I did wake up.

Overall, I'm taking on board Firenze's comments about hormones. Given my age, my hormone levels ought to be changing sometime soon, and perhaps this is the start of it.

I plan to see the doctor in a month's time. That gives me time to keep a weather eye on my cycle, and also gives me time to give the fresh air / exercise plan a fair shot. And I'll continue to reduce my caffeine intake.

I'm actually feeling better just for having a plan, so thank you all for your support, which has helped me think constructively.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Thank you all. I slept to 5am the last two nights, which was much better. Your advice helped me to feel more relaxed when I did wake up.

Overall, I'm taking on board Firenze's comments about hormones. Given my age, my hormone levels ought to be changing sometime soon, and perhaps this is the start of it.

I plan to see the doctor in a month's time. That gives me time to keep a weather eye on my cycle, and also gives me time to give the fresh air / exercise plan a fair shot. And I'll continue to reduce my caffeine intake.

I'm actually feeling better just for having a plan, so thank you all for your support, which has helped me think constructively.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mad Cat:


This was triggered by a night out with friends which, although great fun, saw me fighting back tears while standing at the bar and then in the loo on more than one occasion. I was really assailed by despair, but I hung on and managed not to bail out early on my friends.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abigail:
How do you know if you're suffering from depression? ... I sleep well, I haven't lost my appetite, I'm able to work normally. But I want to cry all the time ...
I've got a doctor's appointment tomorrow about another issue and I want to try and talk about this as well but I'm not sure if I can or if I should.

---

I did speak to the doctor. I tried to explain how I was feeling. She did two things. She said she would refer me to a psychologist; I'm not sure what this means. And she gave me a 'Well-Being Prescription' - a piece of paper with instructions to phone a local organisation apparently linked to Age UK – though when I phoned they said they see anyone over 16 'with physical or mental health issues'. From the examples given it seems they mainly help elderly people who can’t get out and need help with looking after their home. Not what I need. The lady I spoke to said they could see me for a chat about how they might help. Said to think about it. I did, and phoned back a few days later but the lady was off sick. Spoke to someone else there, tried to explain it all again, she said the other lady would call me the following week to make an appointment. I've heard nothing since and I don’t feel like pursuing it, because it feels completely inappropriate to my situation. The appointment with the psychologist hasn't materialised yet.

Now I'm feeling really silly and embarrassed and don’t know if I should have spoken to the GP in the first place.

I started feeling a bit better last week but now I feel wobbly again. I don’t know if this is just something I have to put up with and wait for things to get better or if medical help is appropriate.
 

---

Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
If you are being referred to an IAPT (primary care talking therapy) service, I would expect it would be a few weeks before you could be seen for assessment.

To see a clinical psychologist in secondary services may take a few months - depending on what resources are like in your area.

Unfortunately, with the pressures on funding, waits for non-urgent care (ie low risk suicide or harm to self or others) are increasing.

I suspect the GP gave you the wellness organisation details because it is likely you will have to wait for sometime, and they did not want you to be unsupported feeling the way you do.

It is possible that the organisation may have access to some counselling resources, they often do have volunteer counsellors - so you may want to pursue it. If you don't feel up to endless phonecalls, maybe send them a letter ?

[ETA I think you did right to ask for help, better try to get treatment now whilst things have not got too bad, than wait until you feel much worse. Both talking treatment and medication are more likely to work well and quickly, if you able to start them before problems become severe.]

[ 07. September 2014, 11:17: Message edited by: Doublethink ]
 

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Posted by Abigail (# 1672) on :
 
Thank you Doublethink, that's helpful.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Sitting at my desk holding back tears.
 

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Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
(((Hugs)))
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
(((hugs))) from me too <3 <3 <3
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I saw the doctor today, who thinks I'm depressed. Getting a referral for counselling.

However, I've also got a prescription for anti-inflammatories; I have a lot of mild niggly muscly pain; it's just par for the course with Ehler-Danlos and my weight doesn't help. The anti-inflammatories should give me a few pain free days, which would be a novelty, might help with the sleep etc etc.

I hadn't factored in the aches and twinges at all, but who knows? Perhaps it's crept up on me and I'm underestimating it.

It seems like a positive route to pursue and I'm glad I went to the doctor.
 

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Posted by Jenny Ann (# 3131) on :
 
Excellent. Good on you NEQ.
 

---

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :
 
One of the real oddities is quite often depression responds mildly to painkillers as well, so the anti-inflammatories may help with that too.

It is not a cure all and I would not give a seriously depressed person anti-inflammatories and expect them to get better. For starters it would be seriously dangerous given how often painkillers are involved in suicide. However, quite a few people with depression have noticed a rise in mood when taking pain-killers.

Jengie
 

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Posted by Abigail (# 1672) on :
 
Just coming back to say that I went back to my GP 10 days ago and she asked if I would like to try anti-depressants. I wasn't sure what to say - a couple of months ago I felt that maybe that was the answer, but things don't feel quite so bad now. Anyway, I said yes and I've been taking them for a week. Not sure if I've done the right thing.

I've also got an appointment in a couple of weeks to talk to someone. The information I was given says he can "develop strategies for coping with difficult mental states you might be experiencing" and "help people to make crisis plans and build resilience" Just sounds like jargon to me but I'll give it a go.

I don't really feel that any of this is going to help.

And in the meantime I'm going away for a 5-day break with my friend on Monday and getting very anxious about that for various reasons...

[ 27. September 2014, 13:24: Message edited by: Abigail ]
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abigail:
"help people to make crisis plans and build resilience" Just sounds like jargon to me but I'll give it a go.
.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Abigail:
Just coming back to say that I went back to my GP 10 days ago and she asked if I would like to try anti-depressants ... Anyway, I said yes and I've been taking them for a week. Not sure if I've done the right thing.

...

I don't really feel that any of this is going to help.

---

Just posting to say that most modern anti-depressants take a few weeks (iirc, 4 - 6 weeks) to fully kick in in terms of physiological effects. They're unlikely to do any harm (obviously if you get unpleasant side effects, go back and discuss again with your GP), so give them a few weeks and see how it goes. (Likewise with the talking treatment.)

So far today, my coping strategy has been eating chocolate mousse and cursing the world and everyone in it. This has not had much positive effect upon my mood, so maybe I should try something else for the rest of the day ...
 

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Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
You probably need to give it longer than a week for it to kick in.

I held out for years against the idea as I felt it would only mask the symptoms and not provide a cure. In the end I was desperate enough to actually go and ask for antidepressants. It put a stop to the tearful fits immediately though it took longer for happiness to kick in.

What I then found was that I was experiencing what life was presumably like for people who didn't have depression and anxiety. I just got on with things. If I wanted to do something, I could just do it - no agonizing about it and then deciding apathetically not to bother. The sparkle returned to life, I could concentrate better and think more quickly, took up new interests (things I'd never normally have looked twice at), and got out more.

There has been a blip for me in that mine started to wear off, then I accidentally fell between two prescriptions and went cold turkey which was not comfortable. That was a sharp plunge back into life as it used to be - the 2am start to the day, the despair, the borderline panic, the whole bloody gamut of negative emotions and me somewhere in the middle thinking: why the hell did I put up with this for so long? I guess because I had nothing to contrast it with before.

I really hope they work for you, Abigail, and that life brightens up for you soon.
 

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Posted by Doublethink (# 1984) on :
 
Also, there are a fair few types of anti-depressants out there, different things suit different people, so if the first type you try doesn't well enough - do discuss other options with your GP, there may be something out there for you that will work better.
 

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Posted by Autenrieth Road (# 10509) on :
 
Abigail, best wishes for getting through what you're facing right now, by whatever means. It seems to me it might be important to follow up on all possibilities, because the reaction "this isn't going to help" may be depression talking. Some things offered may not help, but it's important to follow them up anyway, because it can be hard to know in advance just what will help. It sounds to me as if you feel very hesitant to be asking for help at all, and if I could do one thing it would be to encourage you to let yourself ask for help.

Ariel's post describes much of my experience too.
 

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Posted by Silver Swan (# 17957) on :
 
This looks interesting - magnetic stimulation, similar to ECT but hopefully not as heavy. http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2014/s4096506.htm
It's been a year now since my son (30's) went to hospital for a month, after being depressed for many months prior to reaching such a low that he was hardly eating or drinking. He developed a rash which he attributed to medication, and still has, despite giving up the tablets soon after coming back home. He is very much of the mindset that nothing is going to help, either for his depression or with the pain he has from an old knee injury. I don't see him most days as he mainly comes out of his room for food while my husband and I are sleeping -I usually leave something he can heat up.
I'm on the point of refusing to buy more codeine for him unless he sees a GP to have his use of it monitored and his knee looked at by a specialist. (He says the last time was of no use.)
For me it is draining. I feel guilty that I am not able to do more, guilty about his vastly disfunctional upbringing due to my own and my husband's mental health issues, and even have survivor guilt about getting on and enjoying life.
 

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Posted by Mad Cat (# 9104) on :
 
Just want to say 'bon courage' to everyone here. The fight is wearying, but we go on. God bless.

Edit: splelling

[ 05. October 2014, 17:56: Message edited by: Mad Cat ]
 

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Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
Bugger.

Another attempt at a 'new week, new start' blown.
I was determined to make an effort to start getting up at a reasonable time but did not actually achieve consciousness until nearly 11:00. Diamond Dogs gets added to the list of things I can sleep through.

By the time I had got back from lunch & the library and had a bit of a sit down, it was too late to make the phone calls that I wanted to, that were my main thing to do today.

Bugger.

And now I have a sore throat and do not feel like doing anything more active than reading library books.

Still, tomorrow is another day.
If I can get to bed earlier than I have been recently, I might wake up earlier.
 

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Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
Up and down, up and down, partly due to my eating and sleeping and getting-stuff-done habits. Currently sort of in the middle, but I haven't had a lot of food yet and ate nasty fast food last night after trip to hospital to make sure Cubby was OK (we think he is).
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I am such an idiot. I got totally plastered last night. Even though I know it makes things worse not better.
 

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Posted by Matt Black (# 2210) on :
 
Join the club!
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
You, me, us, them, him, her, you name 'em, EM, we've all done exactly the same thing in all manner of circumstances, depression included. No-one's going to call you out on it here, we're just smiling wryly about when we did it.

12 days to go...

AG
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:


12 days to go...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
This is released!

AG

---

Oh wow. There actually IS something to look forward to.
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
EM, I aim to please! Ordered mine last night, haven't heard any sessions on Radio 6 yet though.

AG
 

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Posted by Mad Cat (# 9104) on :
 
BRILLIANT! That's put a smile on my face.

I marvel at the wonder of modern technology, allowing access to wonderous music to anyone and everyone. I remember excitment in the library in my Scottish village home in 1986, having ordered a Half Man Half Biscuit LP. The librarian told me: "I've got that biscuit record you ordered." with a look that blended pity with bemusement. Tee hee!
 

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Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
I might start a Heaven thread for HMHB etc, as it looks like such a hit here...

AG
 

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Posted by Roseofsharon (# 9657) on :
 
I've just been diagnosed as having chronic depression.
It came as no surprise, as I've been crying at the drop of a hat for the past four months.
Lets see if tablets help.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Roseofsharon))


 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
HUGS
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Last night and this morning were so bad. I felt pointless, hopeless and ultimately damned. Might be coming out of it a bit now.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
EM, you are absolutely not pointless, hopeless or damned - proved by the fact that you sent Roseofsharon a virtual hug. People who do that are not any of those things.

Virtual hugs and actual prayers for all on here.


 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:


Virtual hugs and actual prayers for all on here.

---

Ditto from me.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I feel like there's a small child crying somewhere inside me.
 

---

Posted by ChastMastr (# 716) on :
 
More hugs to all who want them

I could use them too. Both recent news, my struggle to keep the apartment looking good (or less of a sty), and today's recent money issue have me feeling very down. Lack of sleep not helping.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Erroneous Monk

I have had a similar feeling in the past and I found it was helpful (but not easy) to treat myself as that needy child. So I tried to be self soothing with things that gave me comfort (initially hot bubble baths, wrapping my body in blankets, then, as I felt stronger, eating healthy foods and walking). I was lucky to have some good professional help as well as a couple of people who listened.

Take care and be gentle with yourself.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Chast, I cross posted with you. I hope you can get the sleep and hugs you need.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Roseofsharon (# 9657) on :
 
Thanks for the hugs.
Latest news? It would seem that my thyroid is going crazy.
Now waiting to see an endocrinologist
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Out of the depths I cry to you, o Lord. Lord hear my voice.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :
 
Indeed.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thank you for prayers. I'm up and at it again.
 

---

Posted by Angel Wrestler (# 13673) on :
 
Second-guessing myself, feeling insecure, like a failure. Why do I act so weird and feel like such a loser? The harder I try, the weirder I get.
 

---

Posted by fullgospel (# 18233) on :
 

 

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Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
Thought I'd post on here, in the hopes of a hug or two. Depression sort of mid-level, won't shift, can't pray, do I believe in a God at all? Over-the-top evangelical fundies at Home Group don't help. But nice people, so keep going, otherwise I'd never go out at all.

Just old, I suppose, and things don't work as they used to, including joints and legs.

A hug would be nice.
 

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Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
A gentle hug for Nicomedia. You might not get out much, but your presence on this online community is valued and welcomed.



 

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Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :
 
I don't know if this is the right place to post as I don't really have depression as such, but I do I think have some level of social anxiety/generalised anxiety (mostly doesn't affect me too much so I've never had an official diagnosis).

However when things go wrong with other people - either friends and family going through bad stuff or my own relationships with others shifting, or being let down by friends I do get overly down.

Then I get even more down with myself for being 'oversensitive' and making relationships worse by getting socially awkward. And not necessarily really awkward, just enough to be more quiet than usual and withhold my inner self from others. Then I blame myself for any problems and make myself feel worse rather than getting angry or confronting others. This just makes the lowness worse.

Recently my bible study broke up with a sudden meeting due to one couple leaving because they moved away and more significantly a break up of another couple who were engaged and about to be married. It was dealt with badly by the man who was broken up with as he assumed before the meeting that we would all feel the same as him - but then I feel guilty for thinking badly of him given his terrible circumstances.

My housemate, who is also a friend, informed me she applied for her family to immigrate to Australia two years ago (but never told me until now) and they could be here any time and will have to stay at our place because she told immigration she has housing for them, until they can rent a place of their own. I have just agreed because I wouldn't want to leave her family on the street and she just expects it is fine. But I'm really stressed about it and worried her family would be happier back home anyway as they had good jobs, but their qualifications aren't recognised here. I then blame myself in advance for any problems I won't be able to help them with and for even considering not helping them.

On top of that one of the friends I volunteer with broke up with his overseas long-term girlfriend which has caused that friendship group to shift and suddenly I'm on the outer and being excluded from lots of socialising. I have tried talking about it to the girl who organises most of the events, thinking I must have upset her somehow, but she was surprised I would think that and she said she just forgets me sometimes. Which is still upsetting considering we've been friends for a number of years and she never used to forget me. This one I really blame on myself and like others here start feeling like a real loser, particularly because I've been through this before in my life so I feel like I must be the problem. However logically I know lots of people go through this with friendship groups, especially those of us who are quiet introverts, a little socially awkward and also nice and don't like confrontation so avoid letting friends know there is a problem until it is too late and any conversation is just awkward and makes things worse.

Anyway am now teary a lot and sleeping badly and feeling like I can't trust friends. And feeling angry at myself for not pulling myself together and getting over it or dealing with it all like an adult.

Prayers for all of you especially as a lot of you are going through worse than me. Know that I don't judge you for you tears, fears and emotions - I just wish I could cut myself the same slack.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferijen:
A gentle hug for Nicomedia. You might not get out much, but your presence on this online community is valued and welcomed.

---

I couldn't put it better than that, Ferijen.

I know I always say something like this to people whose faith is being strained, but if you're within hailing distance of somewhere that does Choral Evensong, it's a wonderful way of making you feel inspired without having to do anything, or even interact with anyone; you can just let the beautiful music and liturgy happen around you.

If you can't get out, Radio 3's Evensong is available on the interweb, and I understand that the Advent carol service from St. John's College, Cambridge yesterday was very good (I haven't listened to it yet, but they're always worth listening to).

Virtual hugs coming your way.

{{{Nicodemia}}} and {{{Mili}}}
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Enormous hugs for Nicodemia and Mili.

How you feel is important to me. I might be just a screen-name, but there is a real person behind it, and I am thinking of each of you and holding you in my heart.
 

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Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
Thank you for the hugs, they make me feel a bit better . But I wish I could stop the exceptionally vivid and disturbing dreams every night. I can't seem to forget them like ordinary dreams, they race round my head all day. One or two have been really distressing.

Wish I knew how to get rid of them or preferably not dream at all.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Talk to the docs?

In my experience those kind of dreams are often a side effect of some sort of medicine.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
[tangent]

When I gave up smoking I used nicotine patches, and they gave me several very vivid, usually completely unrelated dreams every night. I have to say that they weren't of the horrid variety - they usually followed my usual dream pattern of being (a) surreal, (b) embarrassing or (c) both.

Luckily it never got beyond waking up, thinking "that was an odd one" and going back to sleep, and only lasted as long as I used the patches. It was listed on the packet as a possible side-effect, and I could see why: I was getting the equivalent nicotine hit to having several cigarettes in my sleep.

[/tangent OFF]

LC is right though - if you're taking any medicines you probably ought to ask your doctor if there's anything in them that could have that sort of effect.
 

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Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
No, not medication, what I am on I've been taking for yonks! The dreams only come (in this form) when I am depressed. Which is cause and which effect, who knows? Just wish I didn't have them ALL running round my head all day. Can still hear my cries from the nightmare one. Its very disturbing and upsetting, and makes me detached from what is going on in the here and now.

Maybe a cup of coffee would help?

Thanks anyway for all your concern. Wish I could say I was praying for those who also suffer, but just can't get the words out and anyway where/who is God?
 

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Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :
 
Thanks all. I feel a lot better today. Generally I do feel worst at night when I'm anxious. I had a stomach upset today (maybe food poisoning as I was fine within an hour) and ridiculous as it is it made me happier afterwards because I am so relieved I have not caught the stomach bug going around at the moment which would have really messed up my week.

I also have vivid and sometimes upsetting dreams. I don't how much I believe it (could be just coincidence) but I have occasionally had dreams that turned out to be 'premonitions'. Mostly these are innocuous and might be about the school or even specific class I will teach the next day (I'm a relief teacher so I don't always know in advance) which is quite useful really. Sometimes I even cover the unknown subject matter I will teach in advance. But on very, very rare occasions bad dreams have come true, which sometimes makes me anxious when I have a bad dream that is also realistic. But as I say it may be all coincidence - I have an overactive imagination!

I find telling someone else who is willing to listen about a bad dream or just analysing the dreams myself and why I am having them helps. Usually they just relate to me dealing with stuff going on in life, so I do tend to have bad dreams when I am stressed out or feeling low.

Maybe you could even try writing your dreams down or keeping a dream journal. Some people can even consciously alter their dreams if they are aware they are dreaming. I managed to do that with falling dreams I used to have, but not other bad dreams unfortunately so I'm not sure how I did it.

Anyway, will continue praying for you Nicodemia. And I'm sure none of us mind that you can't reciprocate at the moment. We know you would if you could.
 

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Posted by la vie en rouge (# 10688) on :
 
Mili, I feel your pain. You sound a lot like me, reserved and kinda socially anxious. Whenever anything goes wrong in my vicinity, I automatically assume it must be my fault and get upset and stressed about it. (Example: I booked a flight for someone at work. A few days later, the accounts tell me that they have received an invoice for two tickets instead of one. Instead of coming to the obvious conclusion that the travel agency has right royally screwed up their job, I almost have a nervous breakdown, because this HAS to be because of me. Everything is always because of me. Guess what? The travel agent screwed it up.)

Anyway, it sounds like you have a lot of stressful things all going on at the same time. It’s not your fault. You are a lovely person.

(I don’t know if it would help to find a flesh-and-blood counselling person to talk to and find helpful ways of reducing anxiety? Don’t be ashamed to ask. You deserve to be happy.)
 

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Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :
 
Thanks La Vie en Rouge. It's been a bit tough dealing with volunteering with this group of friends now they have got cliquey and I'm not in the 'in' group.

We're running Christmas parties for kids at the moment which I love to be part of. These friends are nice when I'm with them there, but then M. (who was the one I had the chat to about feeling excluded) discusses plans for events they are going to together in front of, but not to me.

And because we've had that chat which ended with her telling me that now I understood it wasn't personal when I wasn't invited she was glad we never had to discuss it again, I don't feel like I can ask if I'm welcome to come along. Until recently that would be just a given that I was welcome. Now I know I would be directly invited if I was wanted there and M. won't do that. I'm not sure if the others realise I'm not invited or not, but they never ask me along either. I think it's grief over a loss of trust and friendship that is getting to me the most.

I have another friend at volunteer work, C, who was previously quite close to M. and was overseas when the group dynamics shifted. She wants to talk to M. for me, but I have told her not to as it will make things worse. I don't want her to be excluded too, although that may already be happening as she is not invited to some of these 'in-group' events either. I have other friends there too, so it is not all bad.

It feels like being back in high school so please pray I can be an adult in this situation and not get bitter, but be forgiving. That is the hardest because it is hard to forgive when the hurtful behaviour is ongoing and you can't just walk away from it either. Pray I can continue to work well as a team with them all, especially M.

The confusing thing emotionally is that M. is mostly nice to me when I do see her and even gave me a lift to the train station the other night, but I think it is so she can continue to exclude me from the social group without confronting or admitting the fact that she is being unkind.. Maybe I have misjudged her, but that is what it feels like.
 

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Posted by daisydaisy (# 12167) on :
 
I hate December more and more each year. I used to think it was Feb I hate the most, but it's really and truly December. Not only is the light scarce (and when there is sunshine I seem to have to be inside), but this year I'm hating bright lights more than ever before and seeking the comfort of gloom.
Added to that it's my birthday which, as usual, all but a few missed this year (is this just growing up?) and one card from an aunt said happy birthday by the way your uncle died 2 months ago but we decided not to tell you. Everyone is so tied up with Christmas already that I've stopped even suggesting people help me celebrate. What's it like to have a birthday?
Then of course there is Christmas which is hard to celebrate on your own when everyone else is off with family and friends; I avoid any situation where I'm likely to be asked "and what are you doing for Christmas".
Bah humbug - not sure doubling my meds will help this year.
 

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Posted by Paul. (# 37) on :
 
I've had a difficult few days. It probably started off my own fault as I haven't being doing my diet and exercise lately and that does actually help. Then there was a little too much alcohol the other night. Then I missed the service Sunday morning because people.

But then I had a confusing dream about a certain someone who's not really in my life any more and who I miss. The dream itself wasn't bad bad - nothing scary or upsetting happened - but I could've done without those thoughts and emotions being brought up. Then when I was trying to deal with that I had to cope with another friend texting me about her latest suicidal thoughts. She signed off saying she was going to go to bed rather than do anything so she'd "still be around to annoy people" for a while. I took that as a sign that she wasn't immediately going to do anything silly. But then I didn't hear anything for nearly 24 hours. Finally got a text from her daughter saying that mum's phone has run out of credit but she's OK. Got a Facebook message later and she did seem better.

So I was relieved but somehow it's left me feeling panicky and anxious most of the day today.

Tomorrow I'm back at work - day off today - back to routine and normality which feels "safe". My boss always wonders why I seem to hate taking time off.

Sorry to ramble, but it's helpful to write this down.
 

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Posted by Silver Swan (# 17957) on :
 
What a hard life it is sometimes. I can relate to the situation of being excluded and the petty murkiness of group dynamics, and as for birthdays I can only think of once in the last forty years when I had a birthday cake, so commiserations on birth those fronts.
I mentioned on this thread a couple of times that my adult son has been seriously depressed for over a year and barely came out of his room. Thank God, he has emerged somewhat and is getting some sunlight and exercise and is seeing his old girlfriend again.
Prayers for those who are depressed and those who care for them.
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
SS, good to hear your son's mood has improved.

Huia
 

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Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :
 
I wish I could send some sunshine the way of those of you having winter a Christmas. I'm feeling a lot better - at least situations like this makes you re-evalute friendships and I'm putting more effort into friendships with people I do trust, which makes the loss of trust with M. and co. a lot easier to take.

It can be hard to find people we really 'click' with and I imagine that must be even harder if you are socially isolated by physical or mental illness keeping you at home a lot. And it's even worse when circumstances change and we lose or become distant from those we once relied on.
 

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Posted by M. (# 3291) on :
 
Originally posted by Mili:

quote:

---

...which makes the loss of trust with M. and co. a lot easier to take.

---

Please note, not me!

At least, I hope - we are in different continents...

M.
 

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Posted by Mili (# 3254) on :
 
Well if the hat fits... Just kidding
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
I've been depressed over Christmas and am not sleeping well. I'm bipolar and I always find the holidays difficult, for all sorts of reasons. My bipolar is managed by careful planning and regular routine and the change of routine unsettles me, as does the increase in socialising over the holiday. I work from home and am by myself all day and two weeks of having other people around irritates me. There's also the memory of my father dying at New Year many years ago when I was away on holiday - I last saw him on Boxing Day. Christmas itself isn't a problem but I'll be glad when it's all back to normal next week.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Dreading work tomorrow
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Dreading work tomorrow

---

I start again today. I'm lucky in that I work from home and am relieved to get my routine back but I always get very anxious about approaching after a break.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Back to church today (for the daily Office and various admin/pastoral tasks) after 10 days of Black Dog. A nasty bout - the longest for some years - but, thank God, feeling a bit more human (albeit a fragile one!) today.



for all who need them......

Ian J.
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
So far, so good. I had a yoga class this morning so am feeling slightly more refreshed, it was a good bit of exercise too (I need to make more effort to exercise, it's very helpful to my mental health). I've looked in on my students online and everything seems okay. I might go for a walk after lunch though as my hypomania is fairly active at present and is mingling with anxiety in an unhelpful way, it makes my thoughts muddled.
How is everyone else after this Christmas period? I always breath a sigh of relief when everything goes back to normal, despite the anxieties of work.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Big hugs for all black-dog-owners xx
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
How did your first day back at w*rk go, EM?
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
It was both better and worse than I expected. My sense of detachment from the actual work was worse, but people were lovely and so I can see how my enthusiasm for work might start to come back.

How are you doing?
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I'm lucky enough not to be a black-dog-owner* (nice way of putting it!), but as a host I read the thread and keep you all in my prayers.



* Not that I have anything against black dogs: they can be very cute indeed.
 

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Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
{{{{{{{All of us}}}}}}}

My depression is kicking up, a bit. Normally, would be manageable; but i have to accomplish a couple of things this week. So I can't just hole up and give myself a lot of TLC.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thinking about you, Golden Key. Maybe you can add something to your list of what has to be accomplished that is for you? And definitely do-able?
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 

Depression makes whole mountains appear in our way. I find it helpful to give myself small goals, perhaps stages to a bigger one, and work towards them slowly. I like the idea of an achievable personal goal too, to reassure yourself of your own self worth.
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I have been feeling my annual SAD rearing its ugly head. Strange, vivid dreams and a general sense of disquiet. I try to compensate with outward joviality. It helps me that it is a very sunny day yet -26 degrees.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Keep telling yourself that the days are getting longer. I don't know what it's like in NB, but here in Newfoundland we caught the tail-end of a beautiful sunset about a week after the shortest day, and remarked that at the same time the previous week it would have still been completely dark.

Would a daylight-box be of any help, until the days start getting properly long again?
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
Thanks, Pigle. Self-awareness is my biggest ally. I also head to Dallas for a 5 day conference, three weeks from now.
 

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Posted by Gill H (# 68) on :
 
Just bumping this as the Black Dog seems to be pestering a few of my friends lately.

Hugs and prayers to you all. You are heroes. Every day.
 

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Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
Would make a good tortoise, I'm so slow. How long before they notice?
And Lothar 1 rang last night and admitted to feeling suicidal. Seeing the doctor today - hope and pray they can find something that a) works and b) doesn't send him to sleep in lectures.
And it's hailing here. Feel like crawling into a ditch and dying of hypothermia, only it would take too long.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I posted last August about my episodic depression and was encouraged to see my doctor, which I did. She diagnosed depression (no surprise there) and referred me for counselling which did help. The counselling has ended, but I can phone directly for an appointment in the future, I don't have to go back through my GP.

An interesting option has presented itself - Spiritual Direction through my church. I'm wondering if this might finally be the answer, rather than counselling which has always helped me through difficult patches, but never stopped the depression from recurring.

BUT the first step would be 'fessing up to someone who knows me in RL (up to now, all counsellors have been people I have no connection with outwith counselling.) And that feels scary and irrevocable.

The Ship has been my spiritual refuge, where I can say "fuck" without worrying. At church I present as a nice person, I've never felt I had to present as anyone other than myself here.

Do I do the scary thing and seek Spiritual Direction? Will it help? (I think it will, but I might be clutching at straws.)
 

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Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on :
 
I would choose counselling over spiritual direction, personally. Why are you considering the latter?
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
But having depression does not remove your being a nice person, it just makes you a nice person who happens to have depression.
Part of my bipolar self-management is being open about having it, rather than letting it take control of my life. I say to people that I do not keep my bipolar disorder a secret as I like it to be out in the open, where I can keep an eye on it. And where others can keep an eye on it too. If you think having a spiritual director will help you then reach out for it, don't listen to the black dog because he lies. Do whatever you feel might help.

[ 29. January 2015, 12:16: Message edited by: Heavenly Anarchist ]
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
... the first step would be 'fessing up to someone who knows me in RL ...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
An interesting option has presented itself - Spiritual Direction through my church. I'm wondering if this might finally be the answer, rather than counselling which has always helped me through difficult patches, but never stopped the depression from recurring.

---

This paragraph makes me uneasy, because sometimes there isn't an "answer" to recurrent episodes of depression. I understand that some people do experience one, or maybe two, episodes of depression, get treatment, recover and never experience another episode of depression again. Over time, I think my depressive episodes are becoming less severe and less frequent, but having had ten years of recurrent episodes, I suspect I'm always going to consider myself more vulnerable to depression than the average bod on the street. I may be saying all this as self-indulgent navel-gazing, but I think there is a niggle in my mind that if spiritual direction doesn't turn out to be the "answer" for you, then finding out that this is the case and experiencing another depressive episode after having had spiritual direction might be pretty devastating.

(I think my uneasiness also comes partly from your quoted statement having echoes of 'Depression is a spiritual problem which isn't experienced by people who are good enough Christians'. I'm 99% certain you didn't mean it this way and were thinking of e.g. spiritual direction helping you personally make sense of difficult experiences within a religious context which counselling can't offer, but the history of people claiming that good Christians don't experience depression is so strong that even your unintentional echo of this sentiment makes me uneasy.)
 

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Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
May I second Zoey here? Some people have one or two episodes, others more. For the record, my diagnosis is Dysthymia - ie chronic depression. There are episodes of double depression, when I sink without trace, only to return to my normal level of gloom. I pray you don't have it - but at least be aware that this is a possibility.
As for Spiritual Direction, I don't know how it's organised in your neck of the woods, but in Shakespeare's county there's a group who can help you find someone. It doesn't have to be from your church, your denomination, or even your diocese.You could also ask around - many people will pass on recommendations. Bear in mind you need to find someone you are happy to work with, so this may take some time.
From experience, it's not the same as counselling. The latter used to drive me mad(der) with silences and imbalance of power. A SD is more someone walking alongside. They won't have answers, but will help you live with the questions (with thanks to St Andrew's Rugby website). I've personally found it helpful, having dealt with a nun and ex-nun turned priest, but it doesn't and can't cure the depression. But just sometimes it makes it bearable.

 

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Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :
 
I don't often contribute on this thread - my black dogs seem to be a restless and unpredictable lot, running in and out of my mental house at will, treating the place as if it was their own, and occasionally pooping on the carpet. But I'm moved to say something about the recent conversation.

Whatever the benefits of spiritual direction, always bear in mind that its primary goal is not your mental health. Its primary goal, depending on which model is being followed, is one or other kind of spiritual "development" or "growth". Better mental health might come as a side effect of this, but it will only be a side effect.

If anyone is undergoing counselling that they feel isn't really doing much for them, my advice would be to seek a different counsellor, perhaps one who uses a different counselling model. I've had experience of person-centred counselling and psychodynamic counselling, and found the latter far more beneficial. Until I'd had that experience, I wouldn't have believed you if you'd told me that different counselling models could have such different effects.

I think the most important thing, though, is to take whatever help is being offered. Hold on to what's helping, let go of what's not.
 

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Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Thank you for all the replies!

Heavenly Anarchist:

quote:

---

Part of my bipolar self-management is being open about having it, rather than letting it take control of my life.

---

quote:

---

Whatever the benefits of spiritual direction, always bear in mind that its primary goal is not your mental health.

---

quote:

---

(I think my uneasiness also comes partly from your quoted statement having echoes of 'Depression is a spiritual problem which isn't experienced by people who are good enough Christians'. I'm 99% certain you didn't mean it this way and were thinking of e.g. spiritual direction helping you personally make sense of difficult experiences within a religious context which counselling can't offer, but the history of people claiming that good Christians don't experience depression is so strong that even your unintentional echo of this sentiment makes me uneasy.)

---

Thanks for that thoughtful comment, Zoey. I've thought about it and think that my problem might be the inverse of this. I might not explain this very well. When my son was still born, a bat-shit crazy relative told me that I should examine my life for sin, to find out why God was punishing me. I knew this was crazy, but all the same it did plant a seed. How many other people thought that of me? Then a high-profile Christian within my community (but in a different church to mine) thought she could "solve" my problems by pointing out Matt 17:20. If I had faith, I'd have a baby. Simples! When I had the next miscarriage, she actually stopped talking to me, I think because she felt I'd marked myself out as a faithless Christian.

My actual church was lovely, I had a lot of support from friends, and bat-shit crazy relative and High-Profile Christian were only ever peripheral to my life, but comments like these are invidious when you are depressed. The fact that I can remember them so clearly over a decade later testifies to that.

So it's not that I think

quote:

---

Depression is a spiritual problem which isn't experienced by people who are good enough Christians

---

but that I've been on the receiving end of other people telling me I wasn't a good enough Christian, and that the miscarriage / stillbirth / miscarriage were tangible proof that God Doesn't Love Me.

I've never raised this in counselling, because if I had to say it out loud to a non-religious person, it would seem so stupid. Well, it is stupid! But I wonder if Spiritual Direction might be a place I could say this.
 

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Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
NEQ, I think that here you come over as a very real, honest, loving person - as well as very nice.

Could the counsellor/spiritual director question be a case of both-and rather than either/or? I am not plagued by the Black Dog in the way that some of you here are - and for you in your struggles - but there are times when I have seen a counsellor in a professional capacity. I've found the sessions very helpful - if painful at times - and empowering in terms of looking at the way I handle things and challenging my way of thinking. Alongside that I have a very dear friend who is a spiritual director and while she is not my spiritual director I have appreciated her empathy and lovingly-offered suggestions when life and/or the counselling have been particularly grim. Whether that's the friend bit of her or the director bit, I'm not quite sure!

When it comes to confidentiality, you should be able to feel safe, whether you know the person in another context such as church or not.

So sorry to hear of your experience with Bat-Shit-Crazy Relative and High-Profile Christian. What they said is not the truth but I know how insidious such words are.
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
When my son was still born, a bat-shit crazy relative told me that I should examine my life for sin, to find out why God was punishing me. I knew this was crazy, but all the same it did plant a seed. How many other people thought that of me? Then a high-profile Christian within my community (but in a different church to mine) thought she could "solve" my problems by pointing out Matt 17:20. If I had faith, I'd have a baby. Simples! When I had the next miscarriage, she actually stopped talking to me, I think because she felt I'd marked myself out as a faithless Christian.

---

To say something you probably already know (apologies )--the idiots who go around spewing this stuff aren't singling you out in particular to tell you their heartfelt opinion of you personally, they say this shit to everybody. It's their default response to anybody who's having a hard time for whatever reason.

Though even knowing that, it's hard to avoid taking it as an individual, personally aimed and well thought out criticism. Even when you know it isn't.

Which is why your idea of spiritual direction might be a really good one, though in our denomination we'd just call it pastoral counseling. Just make sure you pick a compassionate person who has more than a single Clue™.

Oh dear, I'm just saying stuff you know already. I'm sorry. It just rings so many familiar bells for me, as I lost children and am infertile also, and have had to listen to a lot of shit about my depression. Praying...

Hey, you want me to come kick their teeth in? In Christian love, of course.
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
People who say things like that seem to lack even basic empathy skills, they seem to think they have to say something 'Christian' to make it better (which it doesn't as it is wrong) when the biblical response would be to offer love and support.
 

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Posted by squidgetsmum (# 17708) on :
 
reading through this and chuckling in a wry way...so good to know other people dealing with it all too. I've struggled with depression for 10 years. Much as I adore my son, I went so low I was almost in Australia when pregnant with him. Now pregnant again after a particularly dramatic miscarriage. Gotta admit - I'm running pretty scared.
 

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Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
NEQ - it also occurs to me that High Profile Christian may have stopped talking to you out of embarrassment or shame. She might be facing the possibility that she could have been wrong.

Squidgetsmum - for you and the unborn squidgelet.
 

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Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Nenya, you've triggered a memory.

One of the daughters of a church family, who sang in the choir, a bouncy lively girl, very well known in the church community, died from leukaemia aged 12/13. A group of church members had been praying hard for her to recover and were devastated by her death. They found it hard to deal with the family too.

I am not sure what caused the embarrassment and discomfort in dealing with the family, thereafter. But a few ideas:

• their prayers weren't answered and that's a big part of their belief, God answers prayers, did this raise questions about their faith?
• because God hadn't answered prayers was there a reason they didn't know about?
• seeing the family was a reminder that prayer doesn't always work?

I remember meeting the mother in the street and asking how they were and her being so pleased someone talked to her and listened. (My daughter was a similar age and sick at the same time - I was rushing in and out to get back and care).
 

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Posted by Teufelchen (# 10158) on :
 
*prayers for all the Shippies wrestling their black dogs*

I hoped, at the beginning of this year, that I was finally kicking my depression's arse. It's not that easy, of course, and the past week has been tough enough that the gloom has seeped back in.

Part of the problem right now is that I'm not depressed enough to spend my days just staring at the wall or otherwise wasting time, but I'm down enough that I'm seeing the negatives of my everyday experiences very clearly, and it's more of a struggle to see the positives.

I fear I'm not being as merry as shipmate as I was in former times; I find myself latching onto threads about annoying topics, and getting exasperated too readily. Hence my unusual foray into AS: people are generally lovely here, and that's a good thing to seek out at such a time.

Thanks, everyone.

t
 

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Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Hugs and prayers for all you dog-owners.
 

---

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 

My Christmas depression has lifted but I'm still at the listless stage. I'm hoping some regular exercise will kickstart me into getting some energy and focus back into my work and study.
 

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Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
I know depression is suppressed anger, but what do you do when it erupts? I've run out of medication (long story) but surely 3 days without it wouldn't turn me into an axe murderer? Friday night was hell. Rang what I thought was the Crisis line, which I'd been told was still available, and got a patronising little **** who asked me what she was supposed to do? Like - advice please? Help? Anything?
Can't believe how much crying I've done, and I don't do that normally. How can the NHS leave it to get to this state, and then want to ignore it until I try to kill myself.
And now trying to work on zero sleep. God help the first person to ask a stupid question today...
Sorry. That's probably un-All Saintsly.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Fredegund, suicidal ideation, or any talk of suicide, is surely not encouraged here for all sorts of reasons. But I can understand your pain and frustration - coming off medications should always be monitored. All I can suggest is that you get yourself to A&E or to your GP and insist on being seen - or call your local Community Mental Health Team, or even Samaritans as they will have plenty of info & advice on how best to proceed.


 

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Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
Sorry.
 

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Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 
I hope you can get the help you need soon.

I, as always, have let my work pile up unmanageably and now have an urgent stack of it ahead of me for the next couple of weeks (I'm also recovering from an illness which doesn't help). I'm really having difficulty focussing and have too many distracting thoughts and not prioritising. I just can't get my brain in to gear and feel like giving my job up, despite it being an ideal job for me. I know that is the depression talking but it all feels uphill at the moment.
 

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Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fredegund:
Sorry.

---

No problem - I just hope and pray you get the support you need and in as timely a manner as possible.
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
for Fredegund, HA and all here whose black dogs are not being Man's Best Friend™.
 

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Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Fredegund -

I'm hoping you've got to a GP by now to sort out the meds situation. However, it may be useful in future, or for others, to know the following. In the UK, pharmacists can give out an emergency loan supply of your medication in some circumstances. The only time I've had to try it was when my GP unexpectedly (to me) closed for a day's training on a weekday when I had been planning to pick up my prescription from my GP and then get the meds at the pharmacy immediately because I'd run out the previous day. I was also working long hours and had taken flexi-time just to get my prescription. I would have had trouble getting back to the pharmacy in the next couple of days. The chemist next to my GP surgery looked up their records of me and said that because they could see I'd had the medication issued by them on prescription in the last six months they would give me a few days emergency supply (which they then take off the prescribed amount when you produce the prescription - e.g. if you usually get 28 days supply at a time, pharmacy gives you 4 days emergency supply, you go back to in 3 or 4 days time with the prescription and they give you the other 24 days due on that prescription). I guess the strongest back-up plan would be to always get one's repeat prescription dispensed at the same convenient pharmacy (with late night / weekend opening hours as needed), then if one does run out of meds the pharmacy can see that it's dispensed the same prescription to you for the past X months and you are likely to be having a genuine running-out-of-medication-emergency, rather than trying to swindle them of drugs.

[ 09. February 2015, 19:06: Message edited by: Zoey ]
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
What Zoey said.



Praise the Lord, my own Black Dog seems to have dived back under the bed pro tem....though I suspect the Jameson's might have helped.....

for those for whom the Black Dog is still up and running.....

Ian J.
 

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Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
My problem is that I am inclined to embrace the black dog at the moment. If I had done what I really wanted to and not got up, all that unpleasant stuff would not have happened today. OK, there might have been consequences (especially to not signing on) but that would be a problem for another day...
 

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Posted by Jack o' the Green (# 11091) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fredegund:
but surely 3 days without it wouldn't turn me into an axe murderer?

---

Some people can experience one hell of a rebound when they stop taking psychiatric meds, so yes it might. I know nothing about what you are going through, but hope you have someone with the necessary compassion and experience to sit, listen and discuss ways forward - medication or other supplementary approaches.


 

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Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
Haven't dared come back after being so stupid.
Sorted out medication.
Unhappily - Lothar 1 has been told he has to redo his final year at Uni. So now he's home with his own Black Dog, and whatever the physical mess is - I fear something like ME. (the illness, not me, if you see what I mean)
So I've put my black dog in the cat basket that the cats don't use, and am trying to help him tame his. Can't have two on the run at once. They don't get on.
As my mother used to say - "blue pencil blankety-blank". Will save the Anglo-Saxon for Hell when I get there.
Any spare prayers for the entire family would be gratefully received.
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
First find out what the illness is. I am normally ambiguouos about diagnosis, but in this case you need one and you need a fairly good idea of what the prognosis is.

Then you need to go back to the University admin and talk. The University actually has one desire and that is for your son to gain his degree (other wise they would have failed him, these days they try very hard to weed out the fails in their first year). If they know there are medical reasons behind his failing the year and what is likely they can make appropriate suggestions to how best he should go about getting it. For instance if it is going to take a couple of years before he is up for studying he may well be able to obtain leave of absence which will leave him with a place when he is better rather than expecting him to resit next year.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fredegund:
So I've put my black dog in the cat basket that the cats don't use, and am trying to help him tame his. Can't have two on the run at once. They don't get on.

---

This so resonates with me...

Look after yourself.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
So tired. SO tired of everything.

Not sure what is grief and what is depression.
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
EM - I could have posted that.

Many gentle hugs coming your way, because I have nothing else to offer.

In my case, I am grieving for all the could-have-beens on my life, for the guy who I thought could love me but who walked away and for the future I can't see.

I "came out" to my parents re: my depression recently (well, I could not stop crying for such a long time that they could not ignore it!). I hoped it would help to be honest. Instead I got the well-meaning advice to "try harder" and "not wallow in self-pity"....

I do nothing but try and am fed up of walking thorough treacle like this. I have not been happy or content for years and honestly can't remember what it feels like any more.

Sorry for the rant!
 

---

Posted by Jane R (# 331) on :
 
Parents are not always helpful, are they? When I told my mum about my depression, her advice was 'Stop taking the tablets'.

I ignored her, of course.

[ 26. March 2015, 09:16: Message edited by: Jane R ]
 

---

Posted by JoannaP (# 4493) on :
 
The way things are here, I would be quite happy if it was decided that it would be far too dangerous to put me in charge of a desk again and I was paid a salary to sit safely on the sofa.

Job-hunting when I don't really know what I want to do or whether I am capable of holding down a job sucks. My advisor at the Jobcentre is a nice guy but not much help.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Hugs for Lia, JaneR and JoannaP
 

---

Posted by Abigail (# 1672) on :
 
Apologies if this post is not appropriate /too long or shouldn't be here for any other reason.

I posted here last September to say that I had started taking anti-depressants. I wasn't sure if this was the right thing to do or even if I was actually depressed - from what I've read, here and elsewhere, other people's experiences of depression seem a million times worse than mine. But I was feeling pretty awful, My GP offered me tablets so I tried them.

To my surprise they actually seemed to work. After a month or so I realised I was feeling better. And at Christmas/New Year the feeling of utter dread that always descends on me at that time of year, which I can never seem to do anything about however I try, was completely missing.

I stopped taking the tablets at the end of March with my GP's agreement -I felt OK and wanted to get off them as soon as possible.

And now I'm feeling - I don't know how to describe it, I'm hesitant to use the word 'depressed' - but I'm feeling very miserable. I don't know if this means I came off the tablets too soon, or if the way I'm feeling is 'normal'. I mean, it's how I've felt for most of my adult life on and off. For me it is normal. But I feel disappointed. This isn't the worst I've ever felt by any means, but I did hope I could go on feeling 'OK' a bit longer.

The 'crisis' that led me to see my doctor last summer was an accumulation of many things - loneliness, a feeling of failure, a lifelong inability to make friends or to talk to people without feeling extreme discomfort, disappointment with and alienation from my church - and this all came to a head when I reached my 60th birthday and realised that nothing much had changed for the last 40 years.

I'm also doing a course of CBT which I'm not finding particularly helpful. I've tried to explain this to the lady I'm seeing but I can't really seem to get through to her. I've only got two more sessions left and I'm trying to engage with what she's saying but it just doesn't seem relevant to my problems.

Oh, and for what it's worth, someone who knows me well has suggested that I might be on the autistic spectrum. (That's something that I had actually thought about myself and I think it's possibly correct.)

It probably sounds stupid but I feel my problems these days are more spiritual than medical. I want to be able to talk to someone about what I think of as 'God stuff' - which doesn't seem possible at church. Well, not for me anyway. I want to know if I'm like I am because that's how God made me (and therefore it's OK) or because I don't try hard enough to be different. And I want to talk about what happens when we die. Because dying and the thought of not existing any more terrifies me. I don't think tablets or CBT can help with any of that.

Things feel particularly bad at the moment because on top of all the ongoing stuff, I have a problem with my flat that will involve talking to people to get sorted, and although I've started to do that I'm finding it very hard. And it's coming up to the anniversary of my Mum's death, and even after 15 years I miss her dreadfully.

Sorry...just needed to get some if it off my chest.
 

---

Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on :
 
You might want to look into existential therapy coupled with discussing with your GP the merits of restarting your tablets.
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
Abigail, that sounds like a lot of pain to be carrying around. Have you any other family?

If you can't talk about God stuff at church, is it the right church for you?

Clumsy, basic questions, I know. But well-meant.

 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Speaking as someone who's on tablets lifelong, which sort of sucks, but at least it gives you a foundation from which to address all the other questions. Some of us just need that help with our biology. It gets us to the place from which other people start. And then we can start dealing with family, spiritual questions, autism... But for those who are like me, not taking tablets is roughly similar to refusing to take insulin when you're an insulin-dependent diabetic.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Assuming that the person who suggested that you were on the autism spectrum isn't a doctor, your best bet regarding that may be to mention it to your GP and see what he/she thinks.

As to your spiritual questions (if that's the right expression), would it be feasible to seek the advice of a different vicar/minister, if you don't feel entirely comfortable with the clergy at your present church?
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Out of the depths I cry to you, O Lord.
Lord, hear my voice.

 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Abigail

Anglican diocese tend to have some sort of list/service which links people with a spiritual director. This may be used by people from other traditions and I suspect the directors maybe also.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Having a really bad day
 

---

Posted by Lucia (# 15201) on :
 
Erroneous Monk
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lucia:
Erroneous Monk

---

Yes indeed.


 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thank you.

Still here.

That's good, I guess.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
EM
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
EM - more hugs
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
We're glad you're here, EM.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Today's pretty grim too. I'm really glad you're all here. I don't want to be alone with it.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
EM

As there are Shipmates all over the world, there's usually someone around.

At one stage when things were tough for me I used to post asking for prayers just before I went to bed, trusting that someone in a different time zone would be praying for me as I struggled to sleep. It helped me to let go the worries of the day.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
The knowledge of Shipmates praying all over the world was very comforting when I was going through divorce.

Erroneous Monk.
 

---

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Huia:
EM

As there are Shipmates all over the world, there's usually someone around.

At one stage when things were tough for me I used to post asking for prayers just before I went to bed, trusting that someone in a different time zone would be praying for me as I struggled to sleep. It helped me to let go the worries of the day.

Huia

---

That's a beautiful, comforting thought. "The sun that bids us rest is waking our brethren neath the western skies."
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Think virtual hug, hot cuppa and a biscuit, and a chat about HMHB. If we were there, you'd be getting the lot.

AG
 

---

Posted by Dormouse (# 5954) on :
 
Not sure how helpful it is, but for both Abigail and Erroneous Monk. I am lucky not to have had to deal with such things you are having to deal with, but I pray that you will know God's presence. May he hold you both in the palm of his hand.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Do other Black Dog owners find that the BD Effect is made worse by gratuitous, offensive and untrue insults thrown at you by so-called fellow-Christians?

After Mass this morning, and actually in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, my fellow-Reader (UK Blue Scarfed Menace) told me that I was an arrogant know-all.........yes, not the worst of insults in the history of the known multiverse, but it really upset me, to the extent that I am now working my way through a bottle of Irish whisky

for all of us.

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Yes, it's like having a protective layer of skin missing.

Look after yourself and some good food to go with the whisky might be a good idea.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Nobody should have to put up with gratuitous insults like that, however trivial they may appear. If you can, file the BSM in the compartment of your brain marked "complete w**kers" and forget about him/her.

Huia's right though - better have some blotting-paper for that whiskey!
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I'm back at work after a week's unpaid leave trying to get my head a bit straighter (and my home). Not sure how much I've succeeded, but still here, anyway

Just dropping by to say thank you for all your support - it really, really makes a difference.

And big hugs to you all, especially Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Thanks to all - prayers ascending!



BTW, I've liver, bacon, and mash lined up as blotting paper later, so all is not yet lost.....

(any my egregious fellow-BSM has been consigned to the Instant Karma that awaits egregious w**kers).

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by luvanddaisies (# 5761) on :
 
Struggling at the moment. Very bleak and useless and alone.

Was going to post on the hell-thread, but don't have the energy to emit anger.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Prayers for you.

I think it was Huia who remarked earlier that there is usually someone around as this is an international site. Pop in when needed. I find shipmates are understanding and encouraging on such threads as this.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Prayers for you l&d from here too - I know that feeling all too well - no energy for my anger and if I was angry what would be the point anyway?


 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by luvanddaisies:
Struggling at the moment. Very bleak and useless and alone.

---

Never alone. We're with you. I'm with you. *hug*
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{{L-and-D}}}
 

---

Posted by Heavenly Anarchist (# 13313) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Thanks peeps. Hugs are good.

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
My own personal Black Dog has stuck his nose back in the door of my life recently.

Early June got what I thought was a skin allergy, but some weeks later was diagnozed as psoriasis flare. Didn't even know was psoriasis really was, let alone experienced it. While the itchy rash was over much of my body to some degree, it was worse on my hands and feet, and at last I had to sign off sick from work because they were too damaged and sore to do what they needed to do. My feet were about four or five days behind.

So swelling, pain, skin breaking, bleeding, unable to bend fingers and toes - unable to use fingers with any degree of dexterity; loss of feeling in fingertips, like they'd gone numb, but yet still full of pain, too! Then crusting, thick, scaly, sharp skin, open breaks in the skin - yada yada yada.

Most of the time all I was fit for was lying in bed counting the hours till it was safe to have the next dose of Solpedeine or co-codomal; little cotton gloves to protect the hands, big socks for the feet, as motionless as possible.

Now going into August, I can at last use the keyboard enough to do this, though sensation in my fingers is still poor. At least my hands are recognizable as human, not leprous looking lumps of shredded skin. And slow day by slow day the soles of my feet are beginning to heal, after weeks of limping about; huge cracks across the soles, the hard thick skin making any smooth floor surface like an ice-rink.

Towards the end of June, after a doctor's appointment, I dropped into work to update workmates on how long I might be off. As a recruitment agency temp I had no employment rights, of course. So it shouldn't have come as a shock to hear that I was sacked and replaced with a permanent employee who already had a 'proper' post within the department. And it shouldn't have surprized me that the admin manager had already organized it all and made it public knowledge to everybody but me. She had that kind of reputation.

But I wasn't thrilled. Didn't even have the opportunity to say 'goodbye' or clear my desk. I had worked in that office for over fifteen months, loved the work, loved the people I worked with. To suddenly have none of that, and under such circumstances was a devastating kick in the face.

I know that 'things could be worse'. This psoriasis might go away at last - at least enough for me to go back to nearly normal life. I still have family. Even got a cruise booked for early October with my mum.

But I'm angry, and yet also apathetic. Apathetic about employment hopes, about committing to work situations. And about a future that might or might not be centred on psoriasis. I've also got a second thread of treatment going for B12 deficiency anaemia. Ironically, I used to work for the day procedure unit that'll be undertaking my camera tests. And the clerk who'll be preparing my chart and filing my results will be the person who took my job, because that was what I used to do! Just to rub the mortification in....

So, not in a good place, even though I know I'm lucky in many ways, too.

Sometimes I just want to give into the bitterness and hopelessness I feel. But there's not even anyone I can feel legimately angry at. I don't so much want to chase the Black Dog, but welcome him as the only sure and dependable companion in my life at present.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I'm so sorry. I've been wondering how you were.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
That sounds very nasty, Anselmina.
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Anselmina, I sympathise very, very much with the Situational Depression - aka Life Turns Treacherous. All the things you relied on turn out to be shadows, not substantial things.

How to live when hope seems more painful than despair is a thing to learn, and it's not easy.

Finding the people to talk to who can bear to listen, who don't feel the need to protect themselves by 'cheering you up' is the best help. That, and the odd bottle of wine.
 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
Thank you, folks. I know it sounds corny but I'm trying to count my blessings to remind me of the great things that are still in my life. But that nasty little sarcastic voice in the back of head keeps chipping in!
 

---

Posted by chive (# 208) on :
 
I've reached the limit of coping with the stress in my life. I can't cope with all the problems at work, all the hassles of my family, all the bother of the friends and all the general irritation of the fact that life outside my wee bubble exists.

I know this is a sign that I'm not coping. I'm screwed by way of support because the cmht has discharged me but not informed my gp and now neither are claiming responsibility for helping me. I'm going to phone the gp tomorrow because I need a sick note but that just seems such an enormous hassle.

I went to work today and just stood there crying and hyperventilating. I couldn't even get on the bus. I'm trying to tell myself that I did well because when I tried to go in yesterday I sat in the car in my uniform for an hour and couldn't even start the engine.

And what's pissed me off most is after 6 weeks off the evil weed I've started up again. And I know all the things I need to do that help but I can't get motivated to do any of them.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
chive

That resonates so much with me.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Chive I admire the effort you put into working.

I hope you can sort out the medical support, falling between the cracks is unacceptable

Huia
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Anselmina that sounds awful. I don't know what to say except that I'm thinking of you and praying for you.

Chive - I understand about the whole lack of support thing. I recently took a week off work unpaid, because my GP practice is completely running off locums and I just couldn't face trying to explain my history to another stranger. Again, I am thinking of you and praying for you.

Love and hugs to everyone posting here. This thread really does help me on dark days. Thank you so much.
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Dear Chive, and dear Anselmina; thinking of you this morning--of all your kindness and intelligence over the years, which I've seen on the Ship. Praying that this morning a little more light will find its way through the cracks for you, and for everyone laid low.
 

---

Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
Seconded. Know how it feels when the system turns round and tells you to f-off.
Currently trying to fill in a case history report for the private therapist. It's only taken me 2 weeks to get round to it. Feel much worse trying to compress 10 years of rubbish into 3 sheets of Word.
 

---

Posted by Matrix (# 3452) on :
 
chive
 

---

Posted by chive (# 208) on :
 
Thank you for your support. At the moment I'm concentrating on doing one positive thing a day. Today I went and bought wool to knit a cardigan for my niece. That's enough for one day. I wish there was a big snuggly bed that I could move into and never leave.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Chive))

I'm considering going back to bed too. Cried at work today, which I try very hard not to do. IN fact I probably waste a huge amount of energy on trying not to cry. And then fail anyway.
 

---

Posted by chive (# 208) on :
 
I cry at work almost every day. Especially that kind of stupid crying when you're not entirely sure why you're crying at all and can't explain it to anyone. I call it random eye leakage. Over the years my colleagues have got used to it and now take this piss which is infinitely better than sympathy.
 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
chive
 

---

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
Checking in to for you all, but particularly Chive and Anselmina.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Amen to that.
for all whose Black Dog is awake and active......

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
A friend of mine who had a horrendous childhood once said he had incontinent eyes .

for Gazza
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Just checking in. Thinking about you all and hoping you're OK.


 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Wish I had someone to hold me while I cry
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
((((Erroneous Monk))))
 

---

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
If I could reach from here, I'd be glad to.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Wish I had someone to hold me while I cry

---

EM, people here care about you, whether they are close or far away.


 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
(((EM))) p

That last is a lick from our new puppy.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{{EM}}} Hugs and virtual teddy-bears.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
From me too.

{{{{EM}}}}


 

---

Posted by Abigail (# 1672) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thank you all so much for being here with me, and for letting me be here for you too.


 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
I would like a little break from the way my brain is. Mostly, it's my brain and I wouldn't know how to go about life with anyone else's, but just at present I could do without its thinking loops and trying to work out what's going to happen in relation to something that's barely started and anxiety and messes.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Zoey, a friend once remarked to me that his mind had a mind of its own. Praying for you.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Zoey:
I would like a little break from the way my brain is. Mostly, it's my brain and I wouldn't know how to go about life with anyone else's, but just at present I could do without its thinking loops and trying to work out what's going to happen in relation to something that's barely started and anxiety and messes.

---

Would it be possible to set aside times for letting your brain do its thing and times for not? Like having an hour of solid worrying/circular thinking/catatrophising, and then stopping when an alarm goes off? Or is it a relentless downward spiral so you've got to avoid getting into it to start with?

*hugs*
 

---

Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on :
 
I have been reading this thread and realised that I am not as clever or smart as I once thought and am often a mess but despite my sharing of many of the general symptoms, I still try and force my way out the door when sometimes my inner scream just wants to go back to bed. Unsure if that is depression but it isn't all the time. I have meds but can't take the side effects of dizziness and nausea so haven't given these much of a chance. So I just wanted to join this club and also to say I pray for us all with this affliction. Since it hit me about 4 years ago and at first I didn't realise what was happening cos Duh,Christians don't get depressed do they? I've kind of realised,gradually what it is like and I never did before.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Hopefully that's a start to handling it better, Jamat. Good luck.

I've posted occasionally on here about a friend who has wrestled for years with hideous depression. Over the winter, he went drug-free (with medical advice), and although he's definitely had ups and downs he's been in much better physical shape (he tended to balloon on one of the drugs), he no longer feels the need to give me updates on how he's feeling, which is a good sign for him, and a mutual friend said to me the other day "Isn't he well lately!". I'm sure there'll be hard times, but I pray he's through the hardest and found a leveller keel to ride life on.

AG
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Loneliness sucks. Like a Dyson. It never loses suction.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Loneliness sucks. Like a Dyson. It never loses suction.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Loneliness sucks. Like a Dyson. It never loses suction.

---

Hugs - and I know it does not cure the loneliness, but this made me smile (wryly) after a very long, hard day at work when I struggled not to cry and / or scream. So thank you!

Take care - Lia
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Fuck the energy drain of depression that means I am still in my pajamas in early afternoon. And screwing around on the Ship when I should be studying.
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
Bump.
 

---

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
hey LC, I missed this. Around here, PJs and slippers are sometimes seen at the supermarket... Maybe things have brightened a bit over the last few days. I kind of hope they have - my swings are really rapid - I'm up and down like a whore's drawers

I know what you mean about displacement activities - almost everything feels like exam revision to me, and has done for quite a while. But like studying, if I can only make it through the first 30 mins, then sometimes the task takes on a life (and a peace) of its own.

Right Mark, time to switch off the ship and make hay (paint those windows) while the sun shines.

[ 16. September 2015, 12:13: Message edited by: mark_in_manchester ]
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Well, today I'm getting out of PJs at 12 noon, so maybe that's an improvement?

I try to remember that I have some reason for these sucky feelings (multiple new cancer cases in my family, job--oops, NON-job--issues, and so forth. So it's not likely that the depression is going to suddenly roll away, as this particular episode is largely grief and fear.
 

---

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
I'm so sorry to hear there's so much on your plate.



- for you, and all of yours.


Maybe a good book and the electric blanket are a good choice, and not something to get too up tight about, for the time being.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Feeling like I can't go on - work, grief, loneliness - it's all too much. Feel like I'm rummaging through drawers trying to remember where I put my strength.
 

---

Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
I feel for you. Sitting at a desk wondering why it's too much trouble to make coffee.
Run out of tablets - surely shouldn't want to lash out at everyone within 24 hours. And can't face begging receptionist to find out whether there's a repeat prescription, or make an appointment.
Really loved yesterday's sermon: all about healing ministry. Oh, the irony. But it's only 11 years so...
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{EM and Fredegund}}
 

---

Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:
{{EM and Fredegund}}

---

Agreed and prayers for both.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Amen.


 

---

Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
I have tablets! Sweet little 10 year old didn't believe that I wanted to kill people. He didn't hear me ranting at people at New St this morning. Apologies if any of you did.

Am going to take up running again, and fix Lothar II's punch bag. Might be more constructive. And there's always a few inappropriate trees to name and cut down.

Hope it's better with you, EM.
 

---

Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Feeling like I can't go on - work, grief, loneliness - it's all too much. Feel like I'm rummaging through drawers trying to remember where I put my strength.

---

Hey, EM, How is it going? Expecting prayer to help!
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Hi Jamat, hi everyone. Working from home today, so feeling a bit better for not having to put a "work face" on. And it's sunny, so that helps too.

But most of all, your prayers and your loving-kindness help, always.

Thank you so much.
 

---

Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on :
 
Do hang in there and prayer continues.
 

---

Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :
 
Today is the 19th anniversary of the first Mr Marten's death from cancer. I still miss him terribly - even though I got married again in 2010. He was my children's father and I still regret so much that the youngest one has barely any memory of him.

I dread next year's 20th anniversary...we were married for 20 years so it seems weird that the same length of time will have gone by.

I used to get depression in the past, and sometimes the memory of him and the loss of him overwhelms me and I weep. I need to take some things to church this afternoon, so I'm going to light some candles for him.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Pine Marten))


 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Pine Marten anniversaries are difficult. I hope you can be gentle with yourself and maybe spend some time doing something you enjoy.
 

---

Posted by Pine Marten (# 11068) on :
 
Thank you, kind shipmates. I took some flowers to church and lit some candles, and saw several friends who stopped to chat, which cheered me up.

I'm acutely aware that compared to a lot of people (including those on this thread) my life is pretty good - we have some family problems at the moment, but mostly life is ok.

for those for whom life is not so good.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I'm back to the chicken-and-egg. I think I'm in the middle of a depressive episode, which is causing me to screw up. My husband is trying to cheer me up by telling me I haven't screwed up.

I'm still in my PJs and haven't made it as far as the shower yet.

Supportive husband got up early to make me a lovely breakfast before he went to work, but doesn't think I'm depressed and doesn't think I need to see the doctor.

Nobody else in RL knows.

Everything feels so difficult. I can't think straight. The most important thing I have to work out is: Is this medical or am I feeling bad because I have screwed up.

How can I tell?

Every time I head for the shower something happens - phone call, post arrives, and that's enough to throw me off course.

Am I depressed or am I useless? Didn't sleep last night, so that's not helping.

[ 09. October 2015, 11:33: Message edited by: North East Quine ]
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Not useless - not ever, no never - but perhaps depressed, yes.....



Ian J.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Writing it down instead of things chasing round my head is helping. This started on 23 Sept, but it coincided with a cold / cough and I was sleeping badly because of it. I knew I was sliding down but I (and my husband) thought that once the cold had cleared, and I was sleeping properly, I'd shake it off.

Bad cough / cold meant cancelling a couple of social events, which might have lifted my mood. Plus I thought the fuzzy round the edges thinking was down to the cold. Now the cold has cleared but I still can't think straight.

I discussed making an appointment to see the doctor with my husband two weeks ago, but he thought I'd be fine once the cold cleared, and I didn't. So I've now had over two weeks of disturbed sleep.

But I might just be making excuses for general uselessness.

At least I'm up and at the computer. I've had episodes in the past where I wouldn't even be out of bed yet. Even being able to type this (in sentences! with punctuation!) is a sign that the episodic depression is getting better.

I have been worse.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((NEQ)) You. Are. Not. Useless.

Sending much love.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
((NEQ)) What. EM. Said.

But do go and see your GP.......

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
You absolutely are not useless, NEQ. But Bishop's Finger's right - you should see your GP and get his/her advice.

Now that your cold's cleared up, is there something else that you could do to cheer yourself up (to sort of make up for the things you missed) - a concert or exhibition, or maybe dinner in a nice restaurant?

that you feel better soon.

Did I mention that you're not useless?
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I'm pretty sure some viruses bring depression in their wake, and for several weeks, too. No need to beat yourself up.
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
NEQ
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Keep fighting it, NEQ, and (if you don't like votives, think of it as a pilot light for burning someone's arse off).

In the meantime, end-of-job stress has got to me to the point where I start counselling on Monday, and a course for anxiety at the end of the month. I guess both are better than full-blown black dog, but I'd still need to loathe someone pretty deeply to wish it on them (with the exception of the fuckers inflicting it on me, obviously, for whom I am specially reserving a rusty farm implement).

AG
 

---

Posted by Jamat (# 11621) on :
 
NEQ.hang in.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Many thanks!

Yesterday morning I had a doozy of a migraine, the worst for at least two years. I was completely spaced out with it. Slept it off in the afternoon, and now my head feels clear and the fuzzy brain feeling has gone.

I know I didn't have a migraine when I posted on Friday, because if it had been a migraine the visual disturbance would have prevented me from reading the screen, but I wonder if it was brewing.

So I'm going to try to make two appointments next week - one with the NHS counsellor re depression and one with the GP to discuss the migraine.

The North East Man wondered about taking me into A&E yesterday because I was quite out of it, in an odd way - I knew what was happening but it was as though I was observing myself rather than being myself (tried to knot off a bin bag and couldn't figure out how to do it, although I could carry on a rational conversation) but I just wanted to sleep.

Phoned my Dad last night, whose migraines are very similar, and we were able to laugh about the absurdity of it all, which was reassuring.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Glad you were able to shake off the migraine; I used to get horrid nauseous headaches and remembering how debilitating they could be, I'd imagine full-on migraines are ten times worse.

As Jamat said, hang in there.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Monday morning hugs to all black dog owners
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I saw the doctor today, who thinks that the "spaced out" "can't think straight" on Friday was Day 1 of a two day migraine.

Unusual migraines are part of the joy of the hormonal swings to be expected at my age.

The depression is a pain, but at least I'm not going mad. And "I am useless whilst I am felled by a migraine" isn't as soul-sapping as "I am useless." I'd would have felt a lot better on Friday if I'd realised I was brewing a migraine.

I could have hugged the doctor! (But I didn't!)

Thanks for all your kind thoughts.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Migraines are dreadful, no matter what form they take.
 

---

Posted by chive (# 208) on :
 
I have similar migraines to that. The first time I had one I was trying to spread peanut butter on toast and I couldn't do it. I thought I was having some kind of stroke. Migraines are very very weird.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I remember my previous boss being completely unable to make a cup of instant coffee at the start of a migraine - she had to ask someone to pour it for her, or she'd probably have scalded herself.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Migraines are evil! I could spend two days in bed with a migraine and be more tired at the end than I had been to start with - to say nothing of the "discomfort"!
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Unusual migraines are part of the joy of the hormonal swings to be expected at my age.

---

Yes, I hadn't had one since I was a teenager, then at 48 one day I was sitting in the office when suddenly there was some kind of weird zigzag arc across one eye. No headache, just this thing progressing slowly across my field of vision. Artificial light made me feel ill, the computer screen was horrible, and I had to go outside for a bit until it wore off.

The menopause can throw up some seriously weird, unexpected stuff that can basically affect any part of you. I never had the arc again though I did start getting headaches from chocolate, and other symptoms. They would fade in for a few weeks then fade out to be replaced by something different. It does eventually settle down and stop, though.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Feel so low. I don't want to be at work. Just want to be at home. With the children. Though they're at school anyway.

Didn't know whether to post this here or on the bereavement thread. It's the first anniversary of my dad's death on 5 December. It's been such a difficult year.
 

---

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
EM, I wish I could offer more positives but it is grim. Just grim. All I can say to you is that you're not alone.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
EM, anniversaries are the pits, and grieving takes so much energy.

Is it possible to take the anniversary day itself off work to look after yourself?


Huia
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thank you for your kindness.

It falls on a Saturday this year, Huia, which isn't a working day for me - so that's one good thing. And there'll be Mass offered for the repose of his soul that day, which is also a comfort.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Would it be feasible to do something nice on the day - maybe taking the children somewhere he would have enjoyed (museum, park, whatever) - and share memories of him?
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
That's a good idea. Thanks.
 

---

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Thank you for your kindness.

It falls on a Saturday this year, Huia, which isn't a working day for me - so that's one good thing. And there'll be Mass offered for the repose of his soul that day, which is also a comfort.

---

If this is the Saturday in question, prayers for the repose of his soul, and that the black dog will treat you kindly, today and always.



 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
.....and that the said Black Dog will get back under the bed, and fucking well stay there....

I.
 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
to Erroneous Monk for his father's anniversary, and to all here who are struggling.

My all-over psoriasis sill flaring severely. I have no idea if topical steroids on palms, fingers and soles of feet help or hinder. And I'm sick to death of emollients, oils, ointments and other such crap. I feel like a fucking basted turkey - and getting gook all over clothes and bed-linen is disgusting.

Half the time I feel like I'm being fried from within; the other half it's like being covered with hundreds of tiny razor-blades, all having a go.

I'm a pretty useless lump of red itching flesh at the moment. Maybe I should find myself a psoriasis colony to go live in. Least that way I wouldn't feel self-conscious about looking like a freak.

Self-pitying much? Yeah, probably. Good to vent.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
My sympathies, Anselmina. Mine flares at the change of seasons. As it is cool today and more heat forecast for Tuesday and very hot last week and week before, it doesn't know how to behave. At least the weepy scabby bit I scratched in my sleep has now stopped weeping.
 

---

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Was blaming my birthday for general restlessness, then I realized this December would have marked my 20th wedding anniversary. Big attack of the sads followed. i still miss the friendship my ex and I had.
 

---

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
It is interesting, but not a novel observation, that those who itch perennially also tend to depression.

My itches are less severe than Anselmina's, being eczema rather than psoriasis. However, hitherto it has been relatively well behaved, being restricted to those occasions on which I am forced to wear wool next to my skin in very dry atmospheres. Now it is spreading around my knees and becoming a semi-permanent fixture. To this we say grrr, and reach unwillingly for the topical steroids.

Ecclesiastical upheavals are encouraging the black dog, as well. Harumph.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
(((Erroneous Monk)))
I hope today went as well as it could.
 

---

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 
Thinking of you today, Erroneous Monk.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{{EM}}}
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thank you so much for your thoughts and prayers. I'm doing OK now and actually starting to look towards Christmas.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Brave news! May the improvement continue....

I.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I hope Christmas was okay for you, EM - and that everybody else managed The Festive Season and that those in the Northern Hemisphere are coping with the lack of light, etc. and those in the Southern Hemisphere coping with the shortening of the days.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thank you for your kind thoughts. I'm doing OK despite the weather, and despite being off work for two weeks with pneumonia!

I hope you're all well.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Hope all here are travelling okay. And hope the pneumonia is over EM.

My latest encounter with the Black Dog started in December, and the fog is just beginning to lift: though each day is unknown. The Black Dog had been chained up for several years, and I suppose I had thought, foolishly hoped, things may be under control. He "kindly" brought his companion Anxiety with him in a huge measure this time: in January he let Anxiety loose to chase me, and Anxiety still is.

Thankfully I found a caring, understanding doctor, and my former psychiatrist can see me via Skype [I moved 10 months ago]. I'm also seeing a psychologist. I think, as before, the psychologist will play a huge part -- I'm at a point where I hate myself and see myself of no value [more than usual]. I have a good boss too. I am blessed in those ways.

The big trigger was me, again, finding myself incapable [through fear and anxiety attacks] of wanting to do something I've always wanting to do -- being a friend to refugees as they settle here via a programme run by St Vinnie's [years ago it was teaching English to migrants, then volunteer English classes at the library]. It may be minor in the scheme of things, and perhaps I'd be crap at it anyway, but when you barely have any self-esteem/confidence at all usually it really knocks you around when you cannot do the smallest things you'd like to do to help others. But perhaps I just need to accept my limitations and help in other ways.


for all. And thank you for this thread.

[ 18. February 2016, 19:24: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Prayers for you Ian. Having known you for some time now and seen your journey, i would say that I consider you a friend and a person of worth. Depression and anxiety make a nasty couple as I know. I am glad the fog is lifting for you. Take care, you are valued.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Prayers for you Ian. I had a similar episode almost exactly a year ago when I took on a volunteer role that I knew was well within my capabilities, but came at a time I had been incapacitated and in pain with a back problem for a while and, though recovered, had left me fragile. The panic attacks came suddenly, like walking off a cliff I hadn't known was there, just horrible. It took a while, but I'm well again thanks to prayer, good friends and medication. I'm thinking of you take care.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{IC}}
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Sorry to hear that you have developed anxiety added to depression Ian - the combination is nasty. Having said that it sounds as though you have some good professionals available to you.

Be kind to yourself and give yourself time, there will be need for volunteers well into the future and maybe you can volunteer when you are in a better space yourself. A friend of mine uses the old airline adage of fitting you own oxygen mask before those of people around you.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
That analogy makes sense; it'll be far harder to deal with the distress of others if you're not feeling well yourself.
 

---

Posted by Ferijen (# 4719) on :
 
Hoping you find your oxygen mask soon Ian.
 

---

Posted by Yam-pk (# 12791) on :
 
I would greatly appreciate your prayers for the mental well-being of my ex-girlfriend who ended our relationship the other day, which was a shock. Not quite sure what to make of it
 

---

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Lord have mercy.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{Yam-pk}}
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Yam-pk

---

Thank you for the comments, prayers, oxygen mask analogy and advice all re my post; I greatly appreciate it. Thank you Doone for sharing your similar experience: I hope my post did not cause any distress.

[ 21. February 2016, 06:20: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
 

---

Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
Could someone pray? I am trying hard not to give into depression again, but can feel it is going to win and I really can't face all the trying to get Dr's appointments etc etc etc. and I already take anti-depressants, and have done since my last really bad time some years ago. Nor do I want to go back on the psychiatric ward. Please, no!
 

---

Posted by Landlubber (# 11055) on :
 
Nicodemia I am praying and will do so in the coming days.(I don't usually post here as it is anxiety that I struggle with, but I have been grateful for the insights I have read here.)

 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Ian, thank you very much for your concern for me. Please be reassured that I was not distressed but just wanted to reach out to you in prayer
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Yam-pk:
I would greatly appreciate your prayers for the mental well-being of my ex-girlfriend who ended our relationship the other day, which was a shock. Not quite sure what to make of it

---

Prayers and asking for blessing
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Nicodemia
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Nicodemia That is scary.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Joining you in prayer for Ian Climacus, Nicodemia and Yam-Pk and Ex.



Much love to you all
 

---

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :
 
Prayers and support for all here.
 

---

Posted by Yam-pk (# 12791) on :
 
Thank you all very much indeed
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Prayers would be appreciated.

I managed to keep me head above water the past few days but now it is just tears and worry and a sense of hopelessness. I see the psych in a few days so I'm hanging on till then.

If this does not belong here, let me know, and accept my apologies. How do people here cope with a desire to go to church, yet a seeming inability to do so due to depression/anxiety? Maybe wrongly, I do not feel I can share my struggles at the Orthodox parish...but at the same time I do not want to bother the Anglicans or Catholics. For a while I went to the Anglican church, but as Great Lent approached I tried to go back to the Orthodox. But I find it hard. I hope this makes some sort of sense.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Prayers for you and your post is in exactly the right place. Prayers for professional help too for you, that it may be what you need right now.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Praying for you IanC, especially for your spirit to find rest and peace and that you find a safe and supportive church family.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
It makes perfect sense, IC. that you can find healing and peace.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Everything feels too much. I can't explain it here. I have hardly any hope and I wonder if that makes me a crap Christian, because I don't trust God to make anything better.
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
Zooey, it sounds more as if you can't trust, which is a desolate, but quite involuntary, place to be in. And many saints have been there.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
A very normal Christian. (((Zoey)))
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Keeping you in my prayers, Zoey - perhaps when your own faith is faltering a bit it doesn't hurt to borrow a little from someone else.


 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Zoey
 

---

Posted by Lia (# 7396) on :
 
Praying for all here, especially Ian and Zoey

I feel better now but my back dog is never too far from the door, so thinking of you and all those who lurk on this thread.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I'm not feeling too good. i can't find my crisis action plan. I know it starts with thinking about and talking to people who love me. And it ends with going to hospital. But what's in the middle?

I have phoned a friend. I'm trying to do the right things.
 

---

Posted by Adrienne (# 2334) on :
 
EM
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
I'm not feeling too good. i can't find my crisis action plan. I know it starts with thinking about and talking to people who love me. And it ends with going to hospital. But what's in the middle?

I have phoned a friend. I'm trying to do the right things.

---

Does it include any reading? Or active stuff such as gardening?
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
E M
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Mentioning it here is a good start; you can be assured you're in our prayers.

that you feel better soon.
 

---

Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
EM
Hope you find the missing middle. Funnily enough, having just fallen up the office stairs with a cup of black coffee, I feel much better. Perhaps I drowned the dog by accident!
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thank you for your support and prayers. After retreating to hide under the duvet yesterday afternoon, I'm now up and at it again....

Hope you are all doing OK
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
That's good to hear EM!
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Good on you, EM!
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Well done EM. I find a strategic retreat can sometimes allow me to gather myself together to get into things again.

Huia
 

---

Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on :
 
Middles.
A friend quoted Dante to me today and it rang the bells of EM's post, and I have found it in my bookshelf (a few liberties with this quote):
"In the middle of the journey of our life
I found myself in a dark wood
for I had lost the right path.
It is a hard thing to speak of
Of how wild, harsh and impenetrable that wood was...
But I came forth, and once again beheld the stars"
And the shining world.
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
for everyone here.

Wish life would make more sense to me. I see so many lost opportunities and bad decisions in my life, and there is just no time or place to do anything about them. (I'm 82, and giving up)

Where is God when you need him?
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
You are all you have to give, Nicodemia, and it will be enough. Hoping you find your way through the desert.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
(((Nicodemia)))
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Decisions certainly have consequences but we can never know, in this life, what good we have done by a chance word or action as one of the consequences of one of our lost opportunities.

All shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well.

I think that sometimes we have to take God on trust even when our self rebels at the idea - and even when we rebel at the idea of God!

[ 16. July 2016, 13:33: Message edited by: Welease Woderwick ]
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Nicodemia))

 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I think this thread needs retaining so I'm bumping it to avoid the Hostly Hoover.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Very tired and increasingly detached
 

---

Posted by Teekeey Misha (# 18604) on :
 
EM.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
EM.

---

Amen to that.

Depression is such a bastard!
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
{{{{{everybody}}}}}

My Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD--a type of depression) is kicking in. I have meds, but keeping up with them can be hard.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thanks for prayers and hugs and the very useful reminder from GK that we may all need more light. Me for sure.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Totally agree, just upping my meds as well.
Prayers for all of us
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
My own Black Dog has been hiding under the bed with the other monsters for some time, but recent health-related and church-related events are making him stir and growl a bit...

for all with Black Dogs, or SAD (just as badly-behaved, ISTM).

Ian J.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
(((Nicodemia and all of us)))
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Prayers continuing to ascend for all on here; for those of you who suffer from SAD, are light-boxes of any use?

Having grown up as far north as I did (59°N), I got used to the short days of winter, and found that they were more than compensated for by the long summer evenings, but I fully accept that this was just good fortune.

Where we are now is about 46°N - the furthest south I've ever lived* - and I've been noticing the "nights drawing in" recently, although the only effect this usually has on me is that I realise I'm looking forward to that extra hour in bed on the last Sunday of October ...

* Actually it's only a couple of degrees further south than St. John's, but it does seem that the evenings here started getting a little darker a little earlier.

[ 04. October 2016, 21:43: Message edited by: Piglet ]
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
Yes, lightboxes help, and medicine helps, and a long, long visit to sunny California helps most of all.
 

---

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :
 
Not if you live at the top of Skyline Cloudsuck Everfog Ridge.

Yesterday it was too wet to go outside, just from drizzle. It sucked.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
It's spring here and, apart from the temperatures, the weather is worse than it was in winter.

I can cope with rain, but mist and drizzle are the pits. I try to go for a walk regardless of the weather because it lifts my mood. The bubble bath I have to warm me if I get cold and wet helps too.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
*switches light box on*
 

---

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
When I lived in New Hampshire, I had mild SAD. An article in the paper suggested that people with SAD should spend at least a half-hour out of doors when the sun was at its highest. I did this, and it took care of the problem; it helped even on cloudy days.

Those with more severe SAD would probably benefit from this in addition to their other treatment.

Moo
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
My solution to the SAD issue is the opposite of Piglet's - by moving here to much nearer the equator I no longer face the short winter days - dawn to dusk in winter is about 11 hours (summer 13 hours) which I find manageable. The fact it is warm all year is just the icing on the cake!
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Not if you live at the top of Skyline Cloudsuck Everfog Ridge.

Yesterday it was too wet to go outside, just from drizzle. It sucked.

---

Kelly, I don't know how dark Skyline Cloudsuck Everfog Ridge gets, but the amazing thing I noticed when I moved from SoCal to St. Louis is how freaking DARK the cloudy days are here in comparison. Like, 500% darker.

I think I'd gotten used to the light bouncing from the Pacific to the underside of the clouds out there. Here there is no Pacific to act as a mirror, and instead the streetlights try to figure out if they should come on.

 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
*switches light box on*

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sandemaniac:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
*switches light box on*

---

EM, every time I see your sig on a post it makes me grin. Even when you are taking shit, it casts a little ray of light into my day.

AG

---

Don't really know how to take that, but have a hug anyway *hug*
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Have one right back from me, I don't need one right now, but I appreciate the thought, and I expect you need one too.

AG
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
Here I suppose. As in where to post my sudden tears of helplessness for Haiti. I don't know what to do. I just cry. Saying it. Where's the best donation site? Who's on the ground there?
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
My church collection is using Tearfund as I understand they are on the ground (appropriate name, eh? )
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
Thanks Doone.
 

---

Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
Don't know if its SAD but feel I have just sunk into a deep deep black hole. Simply can't be bothered about anything anymore. Feel that as my 82nd birthday approaches I'm just a waste of space.

The fact its dark grey and cold outside, might have something to do with it, but I doubt it.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Nicodemia, I hope this is an encouragement to you. Some years ago as a secret Santa, I think, you sent me a book. You would remember the book, I guess. Accompanying it were some lovely photos you had taken locally of an area quite different to anything down here.They were ingeniously put together for display and I still have them.

I have moved on past the book and I guess you possibly would say the same. However the gift was a real encouragement to me at a difficult time in my life, just as other downunder Shippies were also an encouragement. I appreciated your input into the gift and the photos.

So thank you. I send you best wishes and encouragement at a dark time in your life, just as you sent to me,even if you did not know much about me.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Nicodemia please discuss this with your doctor, I think a blood test might reveal a lack of something somewhere that is addressable.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Nicodemia
 

---

Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
Thank you WW and Doone, and you especially Lothlorien. Yes, I remember the book, but not the photos! But I am delighted they helped.

Did some very brisk gardening this morning, and found that what they say about exercise helping, is true. At least for the moment. Ibuprofen gel to the small of my back also helped!

Now I am going to try and not plunge down into the danger zone again, even if I am still very depressed.

Thank you for your much needed prayers.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Nicodemia)) and ((Martin60))
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Prayers ascending for all on here, especially Nicodemia and Martin60.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
{{{{everyone}}}}

Nicodemia, PLEASE see a doctor and/or a therapist.

I've got SAD, and some other forms of depression and anxiety. It took me a long time to be willing to try meds, and I almost didn't make it through until then.

It took a while longer for everyone to figure out that I needed other meds for SAD. I would get into a deep hole, and couldn't get out of it. IANAD and this is purely as information: Lamictal/Lamotrigine has helped enormously. It isn't a perfect solution, and I periodically need to adjust the dosage. BUT I rarely get into that deep hole. Sometimes a shallower one, but that's a huge improvement.

Again, IANAD, but you might check with your doctor about meds.

Best of luck!
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I've got SAD, and it takes both meds and a light box to make things 80% decent. Mr. Lamb wants us to move back to California, but we can't afford it.
 

---

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin60:
Here I suppose. As in where to post my sudden tears of helplessness for Haiti. I don't know what to do. I just cry. Saying it. Where's the best donation site? Who's on the ground there?

---

This seems to me an entirely sane response.
{Martin60}
{Nicodemia}
 

---

Posted by Wesley J (# 6075) on :
 
I've had a lightbox (well, by now in fact several of them...) since the year 2000. At the beginning, I used to sit in front of them, or do some chores nearby.

Now, I often feel less the need for that sort of intensity, but I've got one in the big, long corridor, where it quite literally turns night into day, if I choose so! The natural aspect of the lightbox is so powerful that I automatically think, 'wow, the sun's out, it's going to be a lovely, bright, beautiful day.' - It is really amazing.

So lightboxes do work. I love 'em!
 

---

Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
I don't think its SAD. Its a lovely bright day and I feel utterly black.

AND I have to go out and take a class in Creative Writing. I hope they feel more creative than I do!
 

---

Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
Same here - only no creative writing. Trying to work despite feels like an attempt at constructive dismissal. No details - can't - but no confidence left. Feel like going out as a cleaner - at least something looks different after that.
I'm too old for this sort of malarkey. Can't they let me retire with some dignity?
 

---

Posted by Nicodemia (# 4756) on :
 
Trying not to burst into tears over slightest thing! If I start I don't know where it will all end.

Maybe I should go into the garden and cut something down?
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
A bit of gentle gardening is a Good Idea. I speak as one who knows how beneficial it can be...



IJ
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I'm no gardener, but I reckon with a little tweaking, BF's idea would work - doing something creative, be it cooking, knitting or whatever.

I don't suffer from real, clinical depression, but I'll certainly admit to feeling a bit low at the moment (unsold house, Finance Monster - you get the idea) and I find making soup or baking bread will at least temporarily make me feel a bit better.

And eating them will make me feel a little better still ...
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Piglet is right - anything creative, needing the use of hands and head...again, I know whereof I speak.

IJ
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Piglet is right - anything creative, needing the use of hands and head...again, I know whereof I speak.

IJ

---

I'll back that. A good friend at work has a whole array of PTSD, bipolar and anxiety state, plus the meds and therapy all of which make his condition(s) hard to handle. He finds that walking the dog, volunteering in schools and baking enables him to continue working, earning and coping in general.
 

---

Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
Yes, it can be helpful. But not when I've done something horrible to my shoulder as well.
Tho' tempted to cut down an overgrown tree, having first named it after the source of the constructive dismissal.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Perhaps it's best to wait until your shoulder is better...

...or perhaps employ someone else to cut down the tree, whilst you stand by and cheerfully shout opprobrious epithets? Very therapeutic.

IJ
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
Would it burn your house down if you set fire to the tree?

On a minimalist note, how about writing down what you think of the opprobrious people and ceremonially burning that?

 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
That is a great idea Jacobsen. A few months after leaving my husband and moving in with eldest son and his wife, I spent a rainy afternoon alone in the house writing. Pages upon pages. No theme or developed ideas, just writing. When I had finished i did not re-read it as I would have for a theology essay or similar. I took the pages outside in the rain and burnt each one till there was nothing but ash. It was very therapeutic
 

---

Posted by Fredegund (# 17952) on :
 
Once had a ceremonial funeral for various papers relating to the source of the depression. Buried in a hot water tank (I hasten to add it is now used as a planter), a couple of dead mice courtesy of the cats, and it now holds a rather impressive jasmine-of-sorts.

Perhaps I should do that again. I have a tree peony that still hasn't been planted.
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
I'd watch that tree peony. Mine had obvious designs on world domination.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Not doing too well today
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
EM
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
The world seems like an incredibly hostile place. I'm feeling deeply anxious and afraid.
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
EM
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I'm not coping today, and I don't know why I can't get a fucking grip. We have a church fund raiser tonight and I will find a grip somewhere on the 10 minute walk to church. I'll be all smiley and no one will guess that there's anything wrong. I will be the picture perfect cheerful Christian. So I know I can do it, though the effort may well mean that when I get back home I will be shaking and sick.

I don't understand why I can get a grip and present as ok to other people in RL, but I fall apart at home. I know (I'm not stupid) that going out for a Brisk Walk, would be one way of getting a grip right now, but then I'd have to come home again.

It's 17 years ago today since my third child died, and tomorrow it'll be 17 years ago since he was born and I know, I know, that a third child is just greedy, and my two wonderful children should be enough, should be more than enough. And they are.

Seventeen years ago I was pulling up my big girl panties and dealing. My husband was only entitled to two days off work for a birth, so when I thought there was no movement we didn't want to squander any part of those two days on him coming with me to check, so I drove to the midwife alone and was alone when I was told there was no heartbeat. And I dealt with it. No tears, no fuss, just autopilot onto the stillbirth plan. Husband left work as soon as I phoned to tell him, so he drove me home.

And David was born on a Saturday, so my husband still had a day's paternity in hand which he used so that we could register the stillbirth together and go to the undertaker together. But I had to get a grip and do lot of the other stuff alone. After my first two were born, I think I spent the first week in my PJs, lounging around, but I had to be up and presentably dressed for appointments after three days and driving alone to e.g. the undertakers four days after giving birth. And I did. My husband got one day off work for the funeral.

And people were lovely. The house was full of flowers and cards and kind messages. The hospital staff were wonderful. Our minister was great. I coped really, really well. I didn't need anti-depressants. It took months for my milk to dry up; my body literally wept milk for my lost baby, for months afterwards, but my brain was super-cool. I was stronger than I'd realised I could be.

Why, seventeen years later, am I still getting bouts of shaking and crying? Which I can switch off if need be, and I will tonight. I just can't switch it off permanently. When will the bad dreams and disturbed sleep stop? Why is it all still so vivid around the anniversary?
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
(Husband has just arrived home early, because he was worried about me )
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
Do you need to get a grip? Can you not just weep your heart out for as long as it takes and stuff the church fundraiser?
 

---

Posted by Callan (# 525) on :
 
Originally posted by North East Quine:

quote:

---

It's 17 years ago today since my third child died, and tomorrow it'll be 17 years ago since he was born and I know, I know, that a third child is just greedy, and my two wonderful children should be enough, should be more than enough. And they are.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Firenze:
Do you need to get a grip? Can you not just weep your heart out for as long as it takes and stuff the church fundraiser?

---

Amen.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Ditto
 

---

Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on :
 
NEQ - I have a friend who lost her baby 40 years ago and can still weep for her. I don't think you ever stop feeling it, and why should you? Give way. And bless your husband.

[ 04. November 2016, 21:28: Message edited by: jacobsen ]
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((NEQ))

 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
NEQ, I should imagine it would be less natural if you didn't feel the loss (and the memory of the whole experience, which must have been very difficult), and it doesn't demean your love for your other children in any way whatsoever.

for you, North East Man and your children, and for the soul of David.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I absolutely agree with everything said so far - you absolutely have the right to weep and mourn and even to be irascible, if that is what it takes.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
If I knew how to weep it out, believe me, I would. Instead this odd, disassociated feeling descends, with quite vivid flashbacks. Yesterday I was drying myself off after my shower and realised my hair felt weird. I'd lost track of what I was doing and got out of the shower half way through washing my hair. I had to get back in and start again.

The advantage of having something like last night's church event is that I can make the effort to hold it together (though "getting a grip" half way to church turned out to be too late. Once I was in church I realised I felt physically odd and then realised I'd managed to get dressed without putting underwear on.)

I'd rather cry than be a wreck who can't focus enough to a) shower and b) get dressed but I can't fathom out how to do it.

Today will be ok, because my husband has planned out a day (cemetery, ice cream, lunch with daughter) and I don't have to think.
 

---

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :
 
It is still grief. Just because it manifests itself as thing that sucks your heart and mind back into the past, rather than as tears, does not make it less so. This is not something you feel instead of sorrow; this is how sorrow feels.

I say this as more of a re-visitor than a weeper myself.
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
NEQ

Are you aware of the stages of grief? Normally they are unhelpful apart from to show that grief is a process. However, here I want to draw your attention to the first stage which is unhelpfully often called denial. I chose that listing simply because it also refers to it as "shock". The denial may be of the need to grieve rather than the nature of grief and in this is more related to clinical shock, a state where the emotional pain system retracts to allow you to cope with life.

From personal experience, you can remain in such a state for weeks, even months. Now go look back at your writing. The early days seem to me to be more you not being ready to grieve (it would be too overwhelming) than that you were particularly strong. It might even be that you felt the need to keep things going for your other two children and now as they leave home you feel you, at last, have the space to grieve.

Oh for the record I rarely weep with grief, I do get claustrophobia.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :
 
NEQ - I'm so sorry for your loss.

What happened to you was a big thing, however calmly you took it at the time. And anniversaries can be difficult.

What you feel is perfectly natural - yes, even years later. People don't work to a timetable on grief: there's no set pattern on what form it takes, either. Grief can mutate into a variety of different forms, and flashbacks are one of them. I'd suggest talking to someone who may be able to help you through these.

Firenze said earlier, "This is not something you feel instead of sorrow; this is how sorrow feels." Spot on.

Take care of yourself.
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
NEQ, I too am sorry for your loss and feel for you.

Your feelings are valid for you and how you handle them is for you. None of us knows how we will respond to momentous occasions in life, until they actually happen. If something helps you, then do it.

As to stages of grief, it is now widely recognised that they are not a continuum. It is perfectly possible to be in multiple stages at any one time, so no one should feel guilty about not conforming to what was once regarded as a right and due process. Not only that, but we all react differently. Jenny gets claustrophobia. I get panic attacks and really weird and unpleasant dreams. Others will have different reactions.

I do not mean by this that it is OK to start a long list of different reactions here. This thread is not about that but about supporting others in their particular need at the time, regardless of how they handle things. Even just a statement of our sympathy and concern is better than what may be read as overbearing advice.

Can we all make sure our posts are support, not education. Anything else will be jumped on.

Thank you.


Lothlorien (AS Host)
 

---

Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on :
 
My nephew Andrew would be the same age as my university-aged daughter, had he not lived for 3 days then died.

In strange moments, I think of him, and kneeling by his graveside throwing dirt onto his tiny coffin, and thinking "We'll never fill this hole." And so it's proved. You just have to learn to live with the fact of the hole, and cope with it in your own way.

All the best, NEQ. God bless.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
NEQ, your reactions sound perfectly normal and fine. I'm not one who can weep it out either. And I did the dissociation thing for years after my father died. I'm so sorry, wish I could help.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Thank you, everybody.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Jengie, thank you. My midwife discussed the denial thing in advance, when I drew up my birth plan. There had been studies showing that women who had a lot of pain relief in labour with a stillbirth had more problems with denial, so we aimed for me to be in as much physical pain as possible when giving birth, which worked for me but was grim for the North East Man.

At the time, stillbirth wasn't the worst outcome. The scans showed that David had a restricted rib cage, which was the part of his condition which meant he was life limited. His heart and lungs couldn't develop fully. Some babies with his condition are born alive but can't take their first breath because their rib cage is too small. So they are born and then their parents hold them as they struggle to breathe and then die. I had a birth plan for that eventuality too.

So there was a sense of relief that David died naturally in the womb and I went into labour knowing he was dead. I still have a sense of relief about that. I was and am glad he died the way he did.

I don't think I was ever in denial, but somehow I shoehorned relief and gratitude into those stages of grief, right at the beginning. Which I think wrecked the stages of grief for me.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Sending so much love and support for everyone here. And hoping this week is less full of anxiety and dread.
 

---

Posted by Surfing Madness (# 11087) on :
 
NEQ, there are no words. Just coz it happened in the past, doesn't mean the pain isn't real now. Each child is precious, having 2 that are a joy to you now, doesn't mean that David is less precious or loved.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I saw a GP today, and he asked lots of questions about what triggered my "episodic depression." He kept going till I started to get shaky and panicky. I've had counselling before, but its always been quite calm. He thinks that flashbacks, triggers, disturbed sleep and the weird disassociated feeling suggest PTSD, rather than depression. He's referring me to a psychiatrist.

I think this may be the light at the end of the tunnel.


 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Here's hoping !
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
NEQ I know it sounds like a strange thing to say - but this does sound hopeful. I live with PTSD, which has responded well to the therapy I have had.

Best wishes.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
That is excellent news, NEQ.


 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
What WW said. {{{NEQ}}}
 

---

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 

quote:

---

I think this may be the light at the end of the tunnel.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
My first thought on waking each morning should be "Wow! This is the day the Lord hath made!" It's not. My first thought every morning is "Oh sh*t! I've woken up again." I wish I could tell somebody how I really feel without it sounding self-pitying.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Question - my husband feels this is unhealthy and that I shouldn't be revisiting this. Is it unhealthy?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Question - my husband feels this is unhealthy and that I shouldn't be revisiting this. Is it unhealthy?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Was it a good strategy for your mother, LC? Because long term, I don't think it's been a good strategy for me. I can be fine for months on end, but then the disturbed sleep / flashbacks / weird disassociated feelings / feeling like I'm wading through treacle hits again. It's been seventeen years.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Teekeey Misha:
My first thought on waking each morning should be "Wow! This is the day the Lord hath made!" It's not. My first thought every morning is "Oh sh*t! I've woken up again." I wish I could tell somebody how I really feel without it sounding self-pitying.

---

I don't know anyone whose waking thought is that and I wonder whether you're putting an unnecessary pressure on yourself. Also, it seems to me that "self-pitying" is your judgement on your feelings; take that judgement off and perhaps you are simply left with feelings of despair and sadness that you feel able to share in your one to one sessions?

My thoughts are with everyone here . I've been having counselling for over a year now and it has helped enormously but a few things have happened in the past couple of weeks to throw me. It's scary to realise that dark place is not as distant as I thought it was.
 

---

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Did you mean (in the first case) grief as a STATE?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Fineline:

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
Question - my husband feels this is unhealthy and that I shouldn't be revisiting this. Is it unhealthy?

---

Revisiting deliberately is part of the healing process of PTSD - you're in more control if you revisit deliberately than if you are getting flashbacks.

---

How you approach flashbacks is a matter for you, but I'd second this. After my mother died I kept busy with all the arrangements that have to be done at these times, but then there came a point when there wasn't anything left for me to do. By then the fits of grief had calmed down, but flashbacks were becoming more of a thing. I found that asking myself spontaneous questions when they happened (like where am I, what's happening now, what do I feel, what am I dreading), and taking the first spontaneous answers that came up was quite illuminating. Standing in some of the scenes looking at them also helped the realization to dawn that time had passed since then and to talk things over with myself.

You say that you can be fine for months and then they suddenly happen. My own experience is that at stressful times I'm more likely to experience these than otherwise. Triggers aren't always what you expect them to be, or even obvious.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Approaching the second anniversary of my father's death (5 December) and now into the period when all events bring with them the thought "I was doing this just before Dad died".

I know this is not depression - it is grief and it is right. But it seems to make it harder to concentrate and to do all the things I have to do let alone look after myself and keep the black dog under control.

Thinking of you all, and that helps.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
(((Erroneous Monk)))
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
EM
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
For me the big quake of a week ago was a trigger, not so much the quake itself but the bungling of the information on evacuation, coupled with the government's victim -blaming attitude of, "of course you evacuate, dummies" when none of the other quakes required evacuation.

I hate this combination feeling powerless, coupled with both anger and tears.

Edited because I kept stuff up a quote from Nenya, that this is a response to.

[ 21. November 2016, 19:43: Message edited by: Huia ]
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{{EM}}}
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
It's everything that's going on in the world as well.

There are some physical conditions that are affected by external factors, e.g. they get better or worse with the weather. Why shouldn't depression be like that too? Global unrest, economic uncertainty, the threat of the far right - I suppose it's only to be expected that these have an effect.

I'd like some time off from everything. But so would everyone probably.
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
EM, would the third item down here help? The second won't, but the third might....

AG
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Yes. Yes it does. I don't actually have a copy of Vatican Broadside....

Thank you


 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
Sounds like you soon will. Think of it as a little Karma for all the times I've see your sig.

Glad to be of service,

AG
 

---

Posted by Sandemaniac (# 12829) on :
 
BTW, I simp!y cannot hear Stavanger Toestub without grinning like an idiot. It might not be very long lasting therapy but I suspect you'd be prepared to give it a go.

AG
 

---

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 
Could I beg some prayer, please? The Black Dog's bastard cousin, anxiety, is savaging me at the moment...

BG
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Get thee back under the bed, O Anxiety!



Bastard cousin, indeed, and nearly as black...

IJ
 

---

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 
Thank you!!!
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
from here, too, BG.
 

---

Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
Bene Gesserit
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{{BG}}}
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Big hug for BG. And may we all have a spell or two of not feeling forlorn.



 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
BG and everyone needing it
 

---

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :
 
First Christmas since Dad died. I don't want it to be Christmas. For me or for Mom. I want it to be June. No energy. No giveafuck. No nothing.
 

---

Posted by Nick Tamen (# 15164) on :
 


BG, mousethief and anyone else needing prayers.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{{Mousethief}}}

for all whose Black Dogs are biting at the moment.
 

---

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
I am aware I have been grumpy and difficult today but, on the plus side, I have survived Christmas and will now go to bed.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thinking of you all with love, on this my first day back at work.

 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
to you, too - and to all Black Dog victims. May the B.D. stay firmly under the bed with the other monsters!

IJ
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 

 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I'm still on the waiting list to see a psychiatrist.That's ok, because I'm feeling fine now. Or I was feeling fine till I discovered today that I seem to have not seen or deleted or done something an important email while I was feeling out of it last November. I'm feeling sick and shaky again, possibly because I'm having to think back to last Nov and the way I felt then is flooding back.

I hate this.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Although actually it's not like last November because I'm feeling ashamed and embarrassed, and not remotely disassociated at all! So that's good.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
(((NEQ)))
 

---

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 
NEQ
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Prayers from me too, NEQ.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
And from me.
 

---

Posted by Polly Plummer (# 13354) on :
 
NEQ
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
from me too
 

---

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :
 
Gotta love it. Ever more my hero.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Now that is style...

for all whose Black Dog is stirring. For some unknown reason, I found myself suffering from Leaky Eye Syndrome (i.e. sudden tears) this afternoon...

IJ
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Bishops Finger))
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Thanks, EM. Quite irrational, I know - possibly a by-blow of my (now removed) brain tumour?

for all with LES...

IJ
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I could almost say I suffer from the opposite of LES - even if a jolly good weep would probably do me good, I find it very hard to actually, physically cry.

The only exception was when D. and I had to live apart for six months while we were waiting to find out if he'd get leave to stay in Canada and I was still in Belfast; during that six months it seemed to take very little to make my eyes leak.

I suppose different circumstances will affect people in different ways.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
True, but LES sometimes seems to happen for no discernable reason. Maybe I'm just feeling a bit under the weather or summat...

IJ
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
I get LES at the drop of a hat...happened just then on my walk by the river.

for all here, and those reading.


I had a shocker last year. Fell apart in April taking numerous weeks off. Fell apart again. Weeks off. Fell apart again at work in front of all. Much understanding, and my boss shipping me back to my parents' place for 4 months where I worked [doing what I could which kept me busy - good thing], got help, and recuperated. I have been blessed with understanding managers.

The psychologist suggested 2 weeks here, 1 week back home, 3 weeks here, 1 week back home, which worked at the end of last year. And may have to happen again given how I'm feeling. Each night around 7 I get restless, weepy, melancholy and anxious. Like clockwork. The days are fine; it's the nights I dread. Which is what happened last year. Concerned it is starting again.

Thankful for this thread, though have mixed feelings that it needs to exist. But am thankful it does.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Ian Climacus))

News of continued Brexit uncertainty is bringing me down, made worse by the self-flagellation that I am letting external factors over which I have absolutely no control affect my mood.

But it all adds to the feeling that attempting to resist entropy is futile.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
((IC, all with LES, and EM))

IJ
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Feel like I can't go on. Fortunately I know from experience though, that I can...
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
EM just hold on, prayers ascending
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
((EM)) - keep on keeping on - well done!

for all Black Dog tormentees...

IJ
 

---

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :
 
You're not alone, ((EM))
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{EM}}

Hang on in there - you know we're all right behind you.


 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thank you, dear friends
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
EM.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
A bit off-kilter, lately.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
GK.


I know that off-kilter feeling. Not sure what to make of it...it is not full-blown depression for me, but I'm not 100% either, and sometimes I don't know why. And I am someone who needs answers. So I get more frustrated when I'm a bit off-kilter than if I'm fully depressed. But I suppose I function better in other ways. Odd feeling.

Hope it passes soon for you GK.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((GK))

 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
GK and EM
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Crap. Not depression, but mental-illness related. Hope it's okay.

I think I had my first delusion episode this morning where I was convinced I knew everything and everything I thought was true. And yet I was still apologetic for thinking it. How they co-exist I do not know. Worse, I posted in Purgatory when not thinking straight and rightly got called for it.

It wasn't till I got to work I calmed down after a walk, before my boss arrived, and realised what a crazy fog I'd been in. It lifted.

I've heard people say you can have feelings you are superman and know everything, and can do everything. Not sure how far along I went but it was odd, being so certain. And now I fear a crash to depression will follow the manic high. I suppose a weekend away is a good idea.
 

---

Posted by Arleigh (# 5332) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Ian Climacus))

I know what that's like


 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
IC
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
I know what that's like

---

Thanks EM, and thank you all. I'm sorry to read you know what it is like.

Do you have any tips for getting through such an episode? Do you just put your head down and ride it out? I'm terrified of blabbering on again in person, or online, when in such a state.

[ 09. February 2017, 18:44: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
((IC))

Do have a word a.s.a.p. with your GP.

IJ
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{IC}}

I agree with BF - you should seek medical advice.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Good advice. Will do. Thank you.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
{{{{{EM, Ian, and all of us, and anyone else dealing with this.}}}}}


Thanks for your support.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Feeling very anxious and panicky. A combination of the world being a really scary place right now and some relationship difficulties. I wish I could just get a dose of whatever brain chemical I need and then get on with stuff.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
EM
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 


((EM and other BD owners))

Mine's asleep at the moment, God be praised...

IJ
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
EM take care
 

---

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 
Anxiety is kicking in pretty hard right now, and prayers would also be welcomed for a bipolar relative.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thinking of you BG and relative and upholding you both
 

---

Posted by Polly Plummer (# 13354) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
BG
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
BG

And all suffering in silence.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Been on a downward trajectory for a while. Got to the stage where I can't concentrate at all. Sitting in the office staring at my screen, refreshing internet pages.

I've made an appointment to see my GP (a week on Thursday but that was the soonest).
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
That was a wise thing to do, EM - I hope he/she can give you some help.


 

---

Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
Prayers for you EM.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Erroneous Monk, thinking if you .

That's an awful place to be.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Just waving and saying "can I put a toe in this thread too?" and knowing that y'all will say yes but being a bit shy anyway. Scared that I'm on some sort of attention seeking trip is all I guess. But yeah ... the black dog is never far from me (hey, and Doone, thanks for your kind response on the job thread) so maybe I can just stumble along with a few of you?
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
EM: may you know peace and have strength til Thursday

Zappa: welcome.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
You're all so kind. Always a flicker of light in what seemed like the darkest place.

Hugs for all, including Zappa.


 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
((EM and all other Black Dog owners))

EM - let us know how you get on, please?

Black Dogs - DOWN, SIRS!! DOWN, I TELL YOU!!

IJ
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
EM and Z
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
for all

Broke down at work when my manager asked how I was. Bet he regrets asking!

He is a good man though, and spent time talking to me. I am lucky in many ways. But anxiety, fear and self-loathing are bastards to overcome at times.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((IC)) and ((everyone)).

I've been there. And now I often fear kindness because it might lead to my mask dropping.


 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Last November my GP referred me to a psychiatrist. A couple of months later I got a letter warning that it would be a long wait for an appointment. This week I got another letter. "Hurrah!" I thought "My appointment!" No. It was a letter asking me to fill in a questionaire to see if I still needed an appointment, or whether I had spontaneously recovered. Filling in the questionaire started to trigger flashbacks...

I gritted my teeth and filled out the form, because it would be ridiculous to fail to get a psychiatric appointment due to mental distress. And the north east man made me cocoa while I filled it in, and made me sit down and watch mindless TV while drinking said cocoa as soon as I'd finished.

I'm absolutely fine. But it was a close thing.




 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Oh NEQ, that really is a pain. Hope the health boffins get their collective fingers out once they get your filled-in form.

Do they have no conception of the meaning of "urgent"?

is about right.
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
NEQ


 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I'm happy to wait for an appointment, most of the time I'm absolutely fine. I don't regard myself as in need of an urgent appointment. But, getting something like this letter, where one minute I think I'm opening an appointment letter and the next I'm reading a request to THINK ABOUT YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE! THINK ABOUT IT NOW!!!! is precisely the situation I am least equipped to cope with.

Sigh.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
NEQ
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
I'm happy to wait for an appointment, most of the time I'm absolutely fine. I don't regard myself as in need of an urgent appointment. But, getting something like this letter, where one minute I think I'm opening an appointment letter and the next I'm reading a request to THINK ABOUT YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE! THINK ABOUT IT NOW!!!! is precisely the situation I am least equipped to cope with.

Sigh.

---

The form no doubt designed by some nutter of a psychiatrist*, or possibly just a trainee admin person, sat upstairs in an ivory bungalow somewhere.

* I have known and worked with quite a few psychiatrists over the years and most of them are excellent caring folks who do a lot of good - but then get them off duty on the subject of other psychiatrists they have known...

NEQ
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((NEQ))

It sometimes seems like the process you have to go through to get any help is worse than not getting the help...


 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I'm here too, Zappa.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
All here
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amos:
I'm here too, Zappa.

---

Cheers ...it comes and goes
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
That's often the case. Many people find that their Black Dog simply will NOT stay under the bed with the other monsters...



((all Black Dog owners))

IJ
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Yes, I so agree with that. I can be going along quite happily when suddenly, like the bad dream a few days ago, something will come along and bite me on the bum.

I started another depressive episode a few months ago when I lost almost all sight and the Dr was very resistant to the idea of giving me tablets for it as I was already on [still am] a whole raft of stuff for my sight. Thankfully as my sight began to return the depression lifted, albeit rather slowly.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
for all
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Saw my GP yesterday - felt supported and in control. I've accessed some free counselling via my professional body, so not going to change/increase prescription for now while we see if talking has any effect.

Sending love to you all.


 

---

Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
Good news Erroneous Monk, you've been on my mind this week.

WW, I have had many ops for detached retinas, trauma-induced cataracts and lost the sight of my right eye through a rare glaucoma some years ago. My eyesight is stable right now, but when I've been stuck at home with bandaged or blurry eyes, it has been very hard. Sending best wishes to you --

For all here
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Good news EM.

for all

I feel like I'm a broken record here.

Broke down at work to my manager again. He gave good advice, but I don't want to hear it. I just want to escape...leave...run... Anything to get out of where I am and the uncertainity over where my job is heading -- which I'm not coping well with. Doctor's appointment tomorrow, thankfully.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((IC))

Is the job uncertainty due to external circumstances, or is about how you're feeling about your job? (If you don't mind me asking)


 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
IC
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
IC

May your GP appointment be a positive step forward.

IJ
 

---

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
Following Wodder's note above, I can truthfully say that my bum has been well and truly bitten by a black dog. Except for food supplies and necessary shopping I haven't been out of the house for most of this month, not even to my exercise program which, heretofore, I attended faithfully, before, during and after depressive episodes.

I sleep and eat a lot. My groceries bills are through the roof.


 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
To Uncle Pete's Black Dog:

Down, Sir! Back under the bed NOW!


For Uncle Pete:


IJ
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Beenster (# 242) on :
 
I eventually capitulated and went to the doctor about 2.5 weeks ago, and broke down. The doctor was great, drugs were prescribed and I've started to feel better.

There's so much in my life that i need to change. Anxiety, circumstances, work, home. The anxiety above all has led to loneliness and the loneliness makes me depressed and so on. It goes round.

I've started counselling which I can ill-afford but i like the guy, even if he did yawn and check his phone throughout the appointment.

In some ways I feel weak and scared, in other ways I feel glad that i might be doing something about it.
 

---

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beenster:
I eventually capitulated and went to the doctor about 2.5 weeks ago, and broke down. The doctor was great, drugs were prescribed and I've started to feel better.

There's so much in my life that i need to change. Anxiety, circumstances, work, home. The anxiety above all has led to loneliness and the loneliness makes me depressed and so on. It goes round.

I've started counselling which I can ill-afford but i like the guy, even if he did yawn and check his phone throughout the appointment.

In some ways I feel weak and scared, in other ways I feel glad that i might be doing something about it.

---

Yay for the first paragraph, and solidarity on the second - I recognise so much of it, especially the circularity element.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
for all whose Black Dogs are misbehaving, especially IC, Uncle Pete and Beenster.

I can't help thinking that the counsellor who yawns and checks his mobile all the time should contemplate a career change, but if your sessions with him are helpful, then what would I know?
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Uncle Pete)) ((Beenster))

Hang in there everyone. Today was a grim one. But as I go to bed, some of you may be getting up and we'll have another day together, God willing.


 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Thanks all.

for all here, and those who cannot post but want to.

And hurrah for good days.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Is the job uncertainty due to external circumstances, or is about how you're feeling about your job? (If you don't mind me asking)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
((Uncle Pete)) ((Beenster))

Hang in there everyone. Today was a grim one. But as I go to bed, some of you may be getting up and we'll have another day together, God willing.

---

Amen and
 

---

Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Small in the grand scheme of things, but just another thing the Black Dog brings to lay at my feet.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Piglet:

I can't help thinking that the counsellor who yawns and checks his mobile all the time should contemplate a career change, but if your sessions with him are helpful, then what would I know?

---

I overthought this at the time - i am such an expert that I wondered if I was meant to react, that it was part of a bigger picture to see my triggers / push buttons or if there was nothing at stake.

Boringly, a friend asked me out tonight. I can't do the spontaneity. i haven't been out for so long so it *feels* really big. At least I was able to be honest about not going out. Rather than pretend ... that feels like progress.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Wise words EM: thank you.

for all here

quote:

---

Originally posted by Beenster:
Boringly, a friend asked me out tonight. I can't do the spontaneity. i haven't been out for so long so it *feels* really big. At least I was able to be honest about not going out. Rather than pretend ... that feels like progress.

---

Not boring, life. With all its struggles.

And I know what you mean. I did panic in the days leading up to social encounters, but at one point someone calling our of the blue and requesting, or demanding, I head on out seemed like a task bigger than scaling Everest. And caused the flight response or a complete feeling of lethargy and impossibility. You are not alone.

Progress indeed.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
I hope all are doing fine as winter, or summer, nears.

I have a wonderful doctor. And a great boss. A very helpful GP visit, with psychologist booked for Friday [thanks to a cancellation], and an understanding manager who was happy to comply with my doctor's request for a late start to work for a while. I am very lucky. And hopeful that a few changes of routine may help lighten the darkness.
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Late starts can be marvellous things. I have had one for a while. It does not mean I rise any later, it just means I am awake when I get into work.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Ethne Alba (# 5804) on :
 
I'd echo a distinct improvement in my own mental health brought about by negotiating a later start time.

It meant that my entire work situation had to change...but in the long term.....
.
.
( oh and massive hugs for anyone wading through treacle, i recall those days and still shudder......)
.
.

[ 31. May 2017, 18:15: Message edited by: Ethne Alba ]
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
As the first anniversary of my OH's death approaches, I'm finding it harder and harder going.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
that the Black Dog stays under the bed, and that you get through this period safely.

IJ
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
((Amos))

Anniversaries are hard.
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Amos and all with black dogs of their own
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Amos
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{{Amos}}}
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Amos
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((Amos))

((Everyone here))


 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Dunno why, but Leaky Eye Syndrome this afternoon...state of the world? Terrorists? Trump? General Election? Who knows...



Black Dog coming from under bed....

IJ
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
O why can't I just go to sleep, and not wake up?

IJ
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
BF
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
O why can't I just go to sleep, and not wake up?

---

Oh, please don't not wake up - the Ship needs you and your wit.

that your Black Dog slinks back under the bed presto pronto.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Bishops Finger
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Bishops Finger, are you able to kick that dog back under the bed? Even a feeble kick might help.


 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
((BF))

((Everyone))


 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
O why can't I just go to sleep, and not wake up?

IJ

---

Stay with me
Keep watch with me


 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Thanks, all...Black Dog has backed down, a bit.



IJ
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Glad to hear it, BF.

Down, boy!
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Good to hear, BF
 

---

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :
 
Hoping Bishops Finger and Amos can persuade their black dogs back into submission.

Prayers for all on this thread.
 

---

Posted by Polly Plummer (# 13354) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Thanks, CK and others.....Black Dog is back under the bed where he belongs, but it doesn't seem to take much to fetch him out again. I'm hoping the result of tomorrow's General Election will not encourage him to emerge!



IJ
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Amen to that, BF
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
(and a nice 2000th, Doone)
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Oh, I hadn't noticed
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 


--

Invited to my boss' place for a bbq tonight...I know it will be good for me but I can't be bothered. And my anxiety flares up.

As it does for a 3 day conference I'm supposed to attend next week...I feel trapped already. 5 hour drive each way with 3 others; endless days of no escape / alone time except just before bed; dinners we *should* attend. Again, may be good for me - but I just want to crawl under the doona and hide.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
IC
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
((IC))



IJ
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Thank you. Managed 2.5 hrs at my boss' place before leaving. Which is something I guess.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Climacus:


As it does for a 3 day conference I'm supposed to attend next week...I feel trapped already. 5 hour drive each way with 3 others; endless days of no escape / alone time except just before bed; dinners we *should* attend. Again, may be good for me - but I just want to crawl under the doona and hide.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Thank you. Managed 2.5 hrs at my boss' place before leaving. Which is something I guess.

---

Well done you! Small steps - just take it easy.

{{{IC}}}
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Having one of those "it's never far away, is it, dammit?" days. But there's been a week or two of literal and metaphorical sunshine.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
May the sunshine continue for you....funny how Black Dogs often don't seem to like the sun, no?

IJ
 

---

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :
 
Yup
 

---

Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on :
 
Sunny and warm here and the black dog is romping just outside my window.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
Sunny and warm here and the black dog is romping just outside my window.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Uncle Pete:
Sunny and warm here and the black dog is romping just outside my window.

---

 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
((Uncle Pete))

Get away from that window, Black Dog, NOW!

IJ
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Zappa Uncle Pete

---

Thank you all. And, yes, EM: I agree. So much so, I pulled out of it, with my boss' blessing.
 

---

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 
and all others here
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
May I report what seems like good news? My GP referred me to psychiatry last November. Finally, last week, the appointment letter arrived, with an appointment to see a clinical psychologist. There were no details beyond the appointment time.

My expectations were low. I turned up for the appointment yesterday to discover that it was a 90 minute appointment (I had assumed 20 mins max)and that I'd been scheduled to have six sessions (the next five will be shorter).

Yesterday was good. It was very good. I feel hopeful.

for all of us trying to control our black dogs.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I'm so pleased to hear that NEQ.

I've just completed the five free therapy sessions that were available through my professional body's helpline. I have found it very helpful.

I really hope for a good outcome for you.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Excellent news NEQ
 

---

Posted by Welease Woderwick (# 10424) on :
 
Brilliant news NEQ - I am so pleased they are taking it seriously.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Good news indeed. My previous employers (the NHS) gave me 5 free sessions of counselling at a time when I was contemplating (or, at least, saying I was contemplating) suicide.

It must have worked, 'cos I'm still here!

((NEQ))

Hope the rest of the sessions are positive and fruitful.

IJ
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
It's June 25th, and I'm still here. We've passed what would have been OH's birthday. The first anniversary of his death is at the end of the week. I'm a bit numb, but mostly keeping the hound in his basket.


Prayers for all.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Well done, Amos. Hound, stay in your basket.



IJ
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thinking of you all. I cried in the middle of Sunday lunch yesterday. The children were great. But the Old Man, as usual, said nothing, did nothing.
 

---

Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
for all, especially Amos and Erroneous Monk
 

---

Posted by Polly Plummer (# 13354) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
Amos

Moo
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Amos and EM
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
((EM))

That bloody Leaky Eye Syndrome - WTF is that all about, eh? God alone knows what brings it on, but it can't be helped. So far, I've managed not to have LES in public, but....



for all afflicted with LES, as if the Dark Hound wasn't bad enough.

IJ
 

---

Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
for all on this thread, especially NEQ, Amos and EM.
 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
I'm going to put this here, but I'm bi-polar more than straight depression. Having been diagnosed and treated since 2001, and mainly suffering low mood swings, I'm pretty good at catching myself before I fall off a cliff. My big signal is negative self-talk. I can usually get perspective pretty soon after I kick off, and I'm able to control it from there.

For me, depression lifting is a magical thing. I was living with my sister the first time it happened, on the back step with a fag and a cup of tea. It dawned on my that for the first time since I had been there, I found her back yard a beautiful place. Oh! What a joy it can be to have perspective back, when it has been absent for such a long time.

The up-swings are harder for me to pick, probably because they seem to be rarer for me. At the moment I'm working on a theory that disordered thoughts are an early sign, and I see them first on the internet.

The Road is long with many a winding turn...
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 

Reading and praying. Solidarity.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Amen. Time for a Group Hug, perhaps?

((All Black Dog Owners))

IJ
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 



As with simontoad, bipolar is my beast. Though after some medication adjustments, chats with a great doctor and a superb manager (who is leaving tomorrow, sadly), the slightest bit of sun is peeking through the clouds.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
For which, God be praised.

IJ
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I had my first session of EMDR, which was interesting.

The psychologist has concluded that I'm very good at explaining and rationalising, but that that I lack the vocabulary to explain and understand my emotions. She has advised me to stop myself several times a day and name my emotion. I'm finding this very difficult. Do other people have constant emotions? Mostly, I feel interested, or curious, or confused, or pleased, but those aren't emotions.

It's not that I don't have the full range of emotions, I do, but most of the time, I don't feel any particular emotion. I'm thinking, rather than feeling.

Isn't that what most people do?
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I do know that 99% of the time, my answer to the question "How do you feel about that?" will be "I don't know." I think that it would take a conscious effort for me to name my emotions throughout a day. But maybe it would be revealing?
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
If I tried to constantly examine my emotions during the day, I'd probably fall off the kerb, or walk slap-bang into the Bus Stop (or even the Bus).

What Erroneous Monk said.

IJ
 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
I'm that way too, if you ask me how I feel about something. If you ask me how I feel, I think I'm OK at identifying where my mood is at.

The handy google search definition of emotion is:

(a) a strong feeling deriving from one's circumstances, mood or relationships with others;
(b) instinctive or intuitive feeling as distinguished from reasoning or knowledge.

I've just listed a few of the emotions I remember experiencing. There's quite allot, but I deleted them as they are probably over-sharing. Bottom line, I think I'm OK with identifying my emotions as they happen.

The tough bit for me is identifying why I felt a certain way at a certain moment.
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
I think this is backwards.

How do we learn what is pain? My guess is because someone asks us "Are you in pain?" when we behave in certain ways such as crying, giving a yelp etc We come to associate what we feel when we are asked that question with pain. If I had to divide things up pain would have a lot more categories than it does. There is a difference between the pain like a tearing sheet of taut fine paper due to stiff muscles, the pulsing pain of muscles post exercise, the sharp pain of a sprain that is moved wrongly, and the humming pain of a tension headache. All these are described as pain, why?

The lack of words is therefore not due to not experiencing the feeling but due to not being asked about that feeling where we are given the word for it.

Rather you need someone to say "are you feeling X?"

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by North East Quine:
I had my first session of EMDR, which was interesting.

The psychologist has concluded that I'm very good at explaining and rationalising, but that that I lack the vocabulary to explain and understand my emotions. She has advised me to stop myself several times a day and name my emotion. I'm finding this very difficult. Do other people have constant emotions? Mostly, I feel interested, or curious, or confused, or pleased, but those aren't emotions.

It's not that I don't have the full range of emotions, I do, but most of the time, I don't feel any particular emotion. I'm thinking, rather than feeling.

Isn't that what most people do?

---

quote:

---

posted by North East Quine

most of the time, I don't feel any particular emotion... Isn't that what most people do?

---

I don't know about most people but I am the same, and I have never suffered from depression ( reading this topic because of a couple of people I know rather than because of myself ). I think one needs a vocabulary to describe the emotions when one does have them, but not to describe something that isn't there.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
Most of the time I am absolutely fine, but life has been a bit like a game of snakes and ladders with no ladders for years. Everything's going nicely, then I hit a snake, and it's straight down.

When I "land on the snake" I get a weird disassociated feeling. I just don't function. It's usually short lived enough for me to stay at home and tell people I've got a sore throat, or something.

It doesn't happen often, but my life comes to a grinding halt when it does happen. When I come out of it, I usually find bruises where I've walked into things. Last time I twisted my ankle badly, by tripping over a pavement.

I think the idea is that I should be able to cry and feel sad, rather than blanking out.
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
I've never suffered from proper clinical depression, but when we hit a "snake" (for instance last year when D. unfairly lost his job and the sale of our house fell through), I can feel very "down". It rarely manifests itself in tears - I don't cry at all easily - but I sometimes wonder if it would be a relief if it did.

Still keeping you in my prayers.
 

---

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :
 
I found that my shoulders were a pretty accurate barometer of my feelings. The higher I was holding them, the more anxious and upset I was, whether I noticed the fact internally or not.
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
I think I'm only taking on now how profound the connection is between my mental and physical well-being. My persistent shoulder pain has been agonising while my mood has been low, but is improving a bit now. However I think I'm getting a cold. Which is a minor whinge, I know, but still....
 

---

Posted by Moo (# 107) on :
 
When you feel low you are apt to tense your muscles, which may lead to pain.

Moo
 

---

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by moonlitdoor:

quote:

---

posted by North East Quine

most of the time, I don't feel any particular emotion... Isn't that what most people do?

---

I don't know about most people but I am the same, and I have never suffered from depression

---

I feel emotion pretty much all the time but have not been good at recognising what it is. It's so far taken me nearly two years of counselling and some intensive work on myself to recognise how angry I am, and have been, about a lot of things. Also to recognise that anger is not "bad." For me at least it is energising. Like clean-burning fuel.
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Nenya, I think you're right about anger being seen as bad. My theory is that it's seen this way because of how it is often expressed ( through loud arguments, violence etc). I don't think that there is a common understanding (at least in my experience) of the difference between the feeling and the behaviour that is commonly linked with it.

Huia
 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
A good day for me, as my Dr has taken me completely off my anti-psychotic medication after about 8 years. The reason is to manage a tremor I have developed, but he must still reckon I can live without it, so for me its a
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Yay indeed! Hopefully, your Doctor will be monitoring you closely, though, yes?

IJ
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
((simontoad)) Keep feeling good!
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Great news simontoad!


[ 08. August 2017, 12:34: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
Thanks everyone. I'm back to the Doc in three weeks to see if the tremor has stopped, and so he can keep tabs on me too
 

---

Posted by Amos (# 44) on :
 
I had a first meeting with a psychotherapist a couple of days ago. It was a good meeting, I think.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Well, let's hope so. Are more meetings scheduled?



IJ
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Amos.

I had a helpful session today. Needed it.
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
My love and prayers to all those posting here.

I've been reading for a while without quite managing to post. Things are not brilliant. I've probably been not well for decades, on and off. It comes and goes, and at the moment it is here. Whatever it is. There's a huge mental health history in my family. The eldest kid has been suffering with anxiety, panic & self harm, but after much counselling, seems to be really well. But I think I'm just knackered - I've been keeping going for so long and I'm just done in.

I rarely have panic attacks (a couple a year), but am almost constantly anxious. I don't look forward to anything. There are things that help - exercise, sleep, I've started meditation, but it's still not good (and sometimes is very bad).

Today I got a letter from the bank with a new PIN. I cocked up opening it and was instantly a wailing, sobbing, throwing things mad lady. To the extent that a neighbour popped in on a pretext to see if I was ok. So I'm now ashamed to boot. Doubly so, since the kids were all at home. (Eldest was magnificent, joking that "We all know you're crap at bank stuff").

I'm done in, really. Reserve-less.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 

But at least you have a neighbour concerned enough about you to do something.

That. Is. Good.

(And sensible Kidz, which is also Good.)

anyway...

IJ
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Thank you. Yes, I'm lucky to have those things. And ridiculously proud of my kidz' sensibleness.

But I worry - I don't want them to be burdened with caring for my mental wobbliness, the way I have cared for my Dad's all my life (and his is a complicated picture of diagnosed & I think undiagnosed problems).
 

---

Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :
 
Jemima and thanks for good neighbours and family support.
 

---

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :
 
Hey Jemima - wow, can I see myself in that kind of scenario.

We don't know each other and will never meet, but suppose we were to imagine each other as basically OK in a 'meh' kind of way.

Next time I f*ck up and start to want to kill the world, I'll imagine you did it, and I'm stood next to you; I'll try to come up with some basic sensible suggestions, since it's always easier to be sane around someone else's problems. You might like to try the same.

The bad news for you is, tomorrow I go on an adventurous / utterly ill-advised holiday with kids in far-eastern Europe, with a totally inadequate f*cked old vehicle (the best of the bad lot here available) for which spares and service will be unobtainable. I'm excited and shitting myself. Don't feel bad knowing that when it breaks down I'm going to be thinking it's your problem

(Oh - and my girls are great with me, but I don't want to f*ck them up (more) either. We spend a lot of time talking over shit, often in the car when it's just us, when the moment is over. They ask questions and share a bit themselves and it's all frank and OK, but I still know I could mess them up which is a strong incentive towards sanity).
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Jemima

I got upset and in tears because a garbage bag tore when I pulled it off the roll. The 'smallest' thing, like opening a letter, can just be too much.

Best wishes from Down Under. And thanks for posting.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
{{{{{all of us}}}}}

Dealing with some depression. Meds usually keep most of it in line. But it's kicking up, especially my Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD). It hits a bit earlier each year, and I've already had my "OK, how much can I titrate my meds if I need to?" annual talk with the prescriber. (For me, SAD can go badly quickly, and I wind up in a hole I can't get out of. So my doc and I have worked out, over the years, "ok, this is your base dosage, and this is how much more you can play with, if things get bad".

The last couple of days, I've felt a deep-winter level of SAD, and that's not good. Hopefully, I can work that out.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Everyone posting here - empathising and praying
 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 


Prayers for all. Sounds like things are closing in a bit for some of us. Good is always there, a chink of light. Sometimes we just can't see it, right at this or that moment. I pray that you might glimpse it out of the corner of your eye, and turn your head towards it.

I'm a speaker. I say what I'm experiencing out load sometimes. I find that can help me identify my aberrant moods, and once they are identified, sometimes they dissipate. If not, at least I have a bit of perspective.

especially for the carers.
 

---

Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
What Doone said
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by simontoad:
I'm a speaker. I say what I'm experiencing out load sometimes. I find that can help me identify my aberrant moods

---

Certainly the case for me with the psychologist Friday...as I spoke, I noticed, and realised, and have sine took action. Amazing what I could not see before vocalising it.

Sorry to read of your SAD coming on as the darkness of winter begins to lift here GK.

s for all.
 

---

Posted by ThunderBunk (# 15579) on :
 
I have found that supplements of Vitamin D3 help enormously with my symptoms of SAD. Light tops this up as required, but the D3 has boosted my energy levels and sunniness of disposition considerably.
 

---

Posted by Zoey (# 11152) on :
 
Feeling broken and never to be fixed. Phoned into work sick for the first time in over two years. I want everything to go away.
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
((Zoey))



IJ
 

---

Posted by Jemima the 9th (# 15106) on :
 
Much love and for Zoey, GK and mark. mark - I hope your trip is going really well, and the van stays together!

Many thanks for all your words of wisdom & kindness to me. I feel better today - in hindsight the failure to cope was just before we went away for a few days - a situation which I always find hard. The break was lovely, I managed well, the kids didn't kill each other. It was ok. Fundamentally OK.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Zoey.

---

And hurrah for lovely breaks, Jemima. I find an escape, when I can manage it, helps me immensely.
 

---

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :
 
For all of us here
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
For everyone here
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Google to offer depression check survey when users google "depression"

Only in the USA.

Interesting. I wonder if people will take it and how many will follow up with a professional. Hope it works.
 

---

Posted by North East Quine (# 13049) on :
 
I have had my fourth session of EMDR. They are once a fortnight. Each appointment with the psychologist lasts an hour, though not all of that is EMDR.

It's been amazing. Firstly, the psycholgist is very empathic and affirming. She won't let me say "My baby died, BUT I have two healthy children, which is more than most, and so I have to focus on being grateful." Far from telling me to get a grip (which is what I tell myself!) she tells me loosen my grip. And hopefully by loosening my grip, I might be able to let it go.

She has also suggested that my family might not have a genetic predisposition towards mental illness (one of my closest blood relatives is currently sectioned) but instead might have all learned coping strategies which don't work. We might have a learned response common to the whole family which actually screws us up. The more I think about this, the more things I think of which suggest this is true.

I don't know if the EMDR works, but the sessions as a whole leave me completely wrung out. I do feel this is doing me a lot of good.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
All sounds sensible to me NEQ and I hope it proves very useful to you
 

---

Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Yes indeed. Loosing one's grip (as opposed to losing it!) can be a real relief.



IJ
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
(((NEQ)))
 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
interesting stuff about learned responses. I'm glad to hear that the therapy seems unseful NEQ.



After an initial burst of energy after going off those anti-psychotics which helped me trim a hedge and spread out a half-meter of scree I'm back into a more normal pattern. The morning grumps seem to have gone though, and I'm slowly learning to get to sleep without chemical assistance. The Jesus Prayer helps with that, in terms of resting the mind, but not so far tonight. I'll give it another burl now.
 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
to clarify, I went of the anti-psychotics on Dr's advice. I always try to do what my Dr tells me to do. Don't go off your meds unless your Dr tells you to.
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
NEQ

simontoad

All:
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Love and prayers to all. My brain has been a bit busy lately - been struggling to shut off the noise in my head. But I think things are starting to calm down.
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
I'm sat here silently hot, wet eyed after reading this page and the first. I'll read all. For my sins.

Off for a significant blood test result. And I've really buggered up my right foot. Everything hurts starting with that. And I haven't attended church proper since Remembrance Sunday. It's too depressing! But it's getting to me that I, we don't go. And there's even a Wiki page on Church attendance and the reasons why one SHOULD. Then there's mother 24/7 ... and my sarn't major 'tendencies'. And my youngest - 30 - back home. Coked out yesterday in another city I had to go collect him from. My sister losing her career affecting managing mother (banks and power of attorney and ...) ... Exogenous meets endogenous!

And off we go!



It's a lovely day.
 

---

Posted by MaryLouise (# 18697) on :
 
EM

Martin60 and family
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
Martin, just to say I hope the tests are okay and the rest sorts out soon
 

---

Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
{{Martin}}

Sounds as if you're really going through the mill.


 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
You swines! You made my eyes get hot again. Well the blood test gave me another 6 month reprieve. And I burst in to tears outside the doctor's. I ask you. Nobody saw. Can I still be depressed? I'm icing the foot till it turns black and soggy after going to a physio in the headspace afforded by the test.
 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
God I'm glad I'm not there right now Martin, and I hope you won't be too.


 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
I don't know Martin, but I cried buckets in front of the consultant when I got the all clear for a cancer test a bit back. Glad to hear about the reprieve and hope the black dog keeps firmly away!
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Martin, I too cried when the surgeon said that my breast lump wasn't cancer. I think tears in those circumstances come from relief, rather than depression.

I believe that tears can be healing. I know that when we were experiencing earthquakes every day I cried more than I have ever done in my life, not when the shaking started (I was too scared), but after to release the tension and, in a weird kind of way, to celebrate that I was still alive.

Huia
 

---

Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Hugs for Martin and all weepers. Tears can be prayers too.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
for all depressed, manic, etc., both here and elsewhere--especially Martin and his family.
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
Just all stop being so bloody nice and tell me to cowboy up or something.
 

---

Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
No
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 

 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
I suppose I could do a Father Ted line if you think it might help Martin
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Martin

Yes, you can. Low mood is a common but not necessary symptom of depression. I got that type the only time I have actually been diagnosed. I was completely and utterly exhausted all the time. No energy for any emotion even unhappiness. In the early stages of recovery, the effect of a serotonin inhibitor was to make me smiley.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
simontoad - it can't hurt.

Jengie Jon - thank you. I rarely get to that flat state. But I know it. Ten years ago I couldn't read for six months. There are so many exogenous factors but I can usually, every day, distract myself, live in the moment. But that does feel under threat at the moment due to a mobility threatening increase in chronic pain. And a hand grenade of domestic uncertainty just this morning. The news is relentlessly depressing and there is no Christian response. I'm starting to smile! I burst out laughing this morning at the domestic. It was that bad

Eeee, ups and downs eh? And downs. In to every life a little category five hurricane must fall.

Need to get back on Waving...

Dunno what to do now I've empirically proved a bunch of fellow amateur botanists disappointingly wrong. Go get a flu shot from the chemist. Oooooh! Shadows on my desk!! The sun's out somewhere.

Sorry. I do not mean to discourage.

[ 23. September 2017, 11:48: Message edited by: Martin60 ]
 

---

Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
I shall watch and wait for the best opportunity Martin, and do a Father Ted quote when and where you least expect it, ninja style. Hopefully it will work like a shock is supposed to when you have the hiccoughs.
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Found a video on facebook yesterday of someone laughing and joking with his family over different flavoured jelly beans just hours before he committed suicide.

There is no right way to do depression.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
Bugger! So I CAN die laughing at my own hand?! Or is it big up and then BIG down?
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
I don't know, I just know not to assume with depression.

Actually, I do know there is a state where laughter is able to interrupt other darker emotions. It provides a temporary respite from the dark clouds; sort of like the very bright sun that peeps out between thunderclouds. An interesting question to ask is, does it feel natural or is it too bright? If natural then probably fine, if too bright be cautious.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
Most wise, thank you.
 

---

Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jengie jon:
An interesting question to ask is, does it feel natural or is it too bright? If natural then probably fine, if too bright be cautious.

---

Indeed, this is great wisdom and chimes with my experience.

I've been catching up on this thread and thinking of all posting here. And those who feel unable to post.

I'm thankful that my Black Dog is pretty somnolent just now. Still having weekly counselling; recently considered reducing it to fortnightly but couldn't face it.
 

---

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
Martin--

quote:

---

Originally posted by Martin60:
Bugger! So I CAN die laughing at my own hand?!

---

Why? Is your hand particularly funny? Great at knock-knock jokes?

Seems like taking it on a road show tour would be more fun.


 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
Groan. That weakens my will to live. Not you, my solecism. The ambiguity of it all. Nothing can remove it can it? Neither comma, nor full stop.
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
My sunny disposition re-asserts itself despite back ache and a cold on top of metatarsalgia. Must be fucking bipolar! No I'm not I know and that's an insult to sufferers I know, but I do wonder sometimes. I can be cheerfully miserable.
 

---

Posted by Jengie jon (# 273) on :
 
Let me take your quip about bi-polar a bit more seriously than you intended it as a starting point. Many people with bipolar do not get straight manic episodes but do get mixed episodes. Now I connect that with my own experience to say that it is totally possible to feel two contrasting moods at the same or very close to each other and one does not negate the other. My most recent experience was on a recent holiday when there were times when I was miserable but also felt comforted (in the old sense, strengthened or resourced maybe better). That does not make me bi-polar but it does mean that I can see the potential for individuals even if not bipolar experiencing something like you are.

Jengie
 

---

Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
Nenya: ; go as often as you need and do not feel guilty about it. There is no rush.

Martin: I've had a humour bypass so I can think of no witty comebacks like others: so you'l have to make do with a I have mild bipolar and was no way offended - the ups and downs can feel like you want to name something in the hope of understanding it. Ambiguity is tough.

And s for all here - posters and readers alike.


Not depression, but I feel a bit manic currently. After 2 weeks in bed with the flu I'm in a maniacal mood. A long weekend ahead in which I hope I can calm down a bit.
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
I was married to bipolarity, unbeknownst, for 25 years out of 26. I always thought it was my fault, that was the folie à deux narrative. Until the final year. The rapidly changing mixed state is a horrible, tragic, frightening, clever thing to helplessly behold.

And yes, I do feel it's a metaphor for non-clinical or 'normal' but perceptibly relatively rapid and concurrent mood change. Learned even?

Cross posted Ian, thanks. You will be a hind let loose!

[ 28. September 2017, 08:37: Message edited by: Martin60 ]
 

---

Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
I had a friend who was bipolar and always thought the highs sounded horrible. Recently I had a reaction to newly prescribed thyroxine that worried me so I looked up the Mayo Clinic's entry on possible side effects. The phrase false sense of euphoria hit me fair and square between the eyes.

I don't know if it is similar to the high people with bipolar experience, but it was really scary, like the feeling of running downhill, and knowing that sooner or later you're going to fall.

Huia

Huia
 

---

Posted by Martin60 (# 368) on :
 
My observation is that they don't know that while they're in it.
 

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Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
During my most awful period, when I was gambling like a bastard, I kept visiting some friends every Friday night and we would get ripped and play cards and laugh. I'd forget about what was going on for a few hours and be really happy, but be straight back to the casino, often straight from their house. Thank God it was 15 years ago.

Anyway, the point is that yes, you can get temporary holidays from the shite, and the shite is still there when you stop laughing.

But the thing I also got from those friends was acceptance and forgiveness from people who were far from obliged to give me those things. That was a critical part of my conversion experience and my recovery, both of which began with achieving my desire to stop destroying myself, just once. After I resisted an urge to gamble for the first time I found hope again.

[ 29. September 2017, 12:32: Message edited by: simontoad ]
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Mood a bit low. Hopefully just Monday. And October. And...
 

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Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
EM I hope it passes soon
 

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Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
EM

My mood, on the other hand, is a bit manic. I'm charging around like a maniac doing 1,000 things at once. I suppose noticing it, for once, is a good sign. Off to the doctor today to see if he can suggest anything.
 

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Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
noticing is a brilliant sign.
 

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Posted by Nenya (# 16427) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Mood a bit low. Hopefully just Monday. And October. And...

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Prayer and sympathies. My bad month is November.

Nen - bracing herself.
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Just turned up here for a hug if anyone's got one going. Wow but my job brings me down sometimes. But that's not depression, that's just the general bummer of being a working ethnic minority woman in a very white male dominated profession.

Yesterday I was crazy anxious - today I think that might have passed.
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Here's one -

{{EM}}

Hang on in there...



IJ
 

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Posted by Doone (# 18470) on :
 
And one from me EM
 

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Posted by Ian Climacus (# 944) on :
 
And from me...

{{EM}}
 

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Posted by Bene Gesserit (# 14718) on :
 
{{EM}}
 

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Posted by Piglet (# 11803) on :
 
Hugs from over here too.

{{{EM}}}
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thank you all so much :'-)
 

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Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on :
 
late to the hug party again (((EM)))
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
I think that turned into a {{Group}}, but hopefully it helped, EM.

I guess we all need one, now that the days are getting short, the leaves falling, the wind and rain occurring etc. (well, in the Northern wossname, anyway).

IJ
 

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Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :
 
{{{{{all of us, and anyone else in need}}}}}
 

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Posted by Erroneous Monk (# 10858) on :
 
Thinking of all of you on this dark Monday morning
 

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Posted by Bishops Finger (# 5430) on :
 
Yes, it's rather grey and dismal here, too.

Another {{Group}} for all who find Monday the worst day of the week...

IJ
 

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Posted by Huia (# 3473) on :
 
Well, it's spring here and we too have one of those mornings. The sea mist has lifted in the hour since I got up, but the day doesn't look much better.

Despite that I'm hoping that a long walk will lift my spirits.

Thinking of all now going into winter.

Juia
 

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Posted by Lothlorien (# 4927) on :