Thread: TICTH to go? Board: The Styx / Ship of Fools.
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Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on
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Reply from Doc Tor
Firstly, hostly decisions are discussed in Styx and nowhere else. But you just can't help yourselves, can you?
OK I'm raising it here in Styx. Please can we retain the TICTH thread on the new ship.
Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on
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Bitching about TICTH is like Christmas.
Despite it, it always comes back.
Consider it our holiday gift to the Hell Hosts.
Wanders off to buy a Hot Cross bun and a Cadbury Creme egg...
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on
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I see! It's Today, Itch Comes To Haunt.....
(Where's the door?)
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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As I mentioned in Hell, TICTH threads always start off with the best intentions, and then rapidly degenerate into more-or-less Heavenly discussions which drive the hosts batshitcrazy.
The rule of thumb has always applied, that if you feel the need to respond to a TICTH post, start a separate thread. If it's worth discussing, it's worth discussing (and not necessarily in Hell - other boards are available). Otherwise, don't press the reply button.
But no-one (exaggerating for rhetorical purposes) ever ever sticks to that, and instead we breed whiny-ass digressions and smilie-fests. We don't thread replies a la usenet/reddit - so tangents are all given equal prominence to the original complaint. And it's not that we can't host it, it's that it's tedious and non-board appropriate. I'm not going to hover over a TICTH thread, deleting non-consigning posts, and I'm pretty certain none of my fellow HH will either.
None of this stops any shipmate starting a new thread specifically for their situation. If the thread has legs, it'll run. If it doesn't, it'll die and eventually Oblivionated.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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Thank you Doc, my post asking "Why Drivers of Grey Cars Don't Put Their Lights On?" in on the stocks now.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
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Well Doc renamed the thread I started. Decided exactly what it was, rounding the square edges.
There is no point to a discussion board thread which doesn't allow some discussion. I like a thread about winges and whines, which also allows some brief comment and additional mockery. Is the sort of thing that makes such a thread worthwhile. Thus I might suggest that a lighter moderation on such a thread is in order. It should be like going for a beer or a cup of tea with friends, whom you don't like. One person says something, someone mocks and teases, someone claims their pitiful life experiences are worse and we laugh a little. A bit like Readers Digest "Life's Like That" mated with letters to the editor in a three-way with swear words.
Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on
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With respect, Doc Tor, if we used the criteria of "it's that it's tedious" then most of the Ship would disappear depending on one's point of view. The diversity of people here makes one person love what another hates and I find that a good thing. Making a pronouncement about the new ship being TICTH-free in an actual thread the way it was made is not the greatest way to encourage good feelings about what is to come. Neither does it relieve the anxiety that many are feeling concerning the imminent change.
Your only other point that is is "non-board appropriate" is difficult for me to see. I understand that you don't want a Heavenly thread or an All Saints thread to be active in Hell but many many Hell thread do wind up being more or less like one of the other boards and sometimes, certainly more often in the past than now, threads were regularly moved around as they developed.
Personally, I find the TICTH threads extremely helpful and entertaining at the same time. As a person who does not often venture into Hell, they give me a chance to make a one-off statement of hellishness in my life without worrying about the comments that might come afterwards. Whenever a TICTH thread comes up, I actually compose a response in my head but hardly ever post. Over subsequent days, I enjoy checking the thread and do speculate about just how long it will take before someone answers and breaks the rules.
Surely there are enough hosts that one or two would take this on periodically despite the "tediousness" of it? We have hosts who operate in every other type of situation and if the current batch has formed a culture of hate around the TICTH threads, maybe I will need to make a post down there about that.
I know this is no democracy but it is one of the places where a little bit of steam is let off and where some of us find entertainment and solace about our situations too.
Please reconsider.
[ 12. January 2018, 12:55: Message edited by: lily pad ]
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
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I’m with lily pad - I enjoy the TICTH threads. A great mix of serious and trivial.
Most of the things there are not worthy of their own thread, but worth a few pithy/cheeky/fun/angry comments.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
Making a pronouncement about the new ship being TICTH-free in an actual thread the way it was made is not the greatest way to encourage good feelings about what is to come.
To be fair, this version of the Ship was declared to be a TICTH-free zone. More than once.
Although I like TICTH and think it a valuable thing, it does tend to become one of the most insipid threads we have.
Whilst I think the HH’s complain overmuch about it, it is like a minor groin itch in a public place. That you cannot scratch it, makes it feel 10 times worse.
quote:
Neither does it relieve the anxiety that many are feeling concerning the imminent change.
You had to mention the C-word. You heartless, heartless person. TICTH... ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Well Doc renamed the thread I started. Decided exactly what it was, rounding the square edges.
Actually, that was Rook.
Posted by Marvin the Martian (# 4360) on
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quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
TICTH threads ... give me a chance to make a one-off statement of hellishness in my life without worrying about the comments that might come afterwards.
If that's the main reason why TICTH keeps cropping up then it's a pretty poor one. No thread in Hell is supposed to be a "safe space" - that's not what the board is for.
Though this does point to one possible strategy that the Hellhosts might be able to use to discourage it, should they be so inclined - instead of banning comments, they could encourage posters to react to each new whinge as if it was a new thread. No more safe space, no more reason for people to use TICTH rather than starting a new thread ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I’m with lily pad - I enjoy the TICTH threads. A great mix of serious and trivial.
That is the problem.
If it is trivial it does not belong in Hell. At all. Ever.
Posted by Nicolemr (# 28) on
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Rubbish, Balaam. Some hell threads, particularly calling people to hell, are started on the most trivial of grounds. Doesn't mean the thread is closed.
I like TICTH threads too, sometimes you just need to blow of steam. And I don't see how reading them is any more tedious than any other hell thread.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
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It is not wise to meddle with the whim of the Hellhosts, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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The only real reason TICTH threads are in Hell is because Hell is in the title of the thread. There's nothing particularly Hellish about leaving your specs in the back of a hire car, double booking yourself, allergies, mud, migraines, rap on public transport, making porridge in a teapot, time-wasters, the edit time, the weather, eating soap, and cellulitis.
Almost all of those could go in Heaven as 'oh what am I like?' threads, or All Saints as prayer requests. Whining on about the edit time needs to be directed towards Styx, of course.
The Hell hosts demand red meat, raw, warm and preferably still bleeding, not these milquetoast offerings.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The Hell hosts demand red meat, raw, warm and preferably still bleeding, not these milquetoast offerings.
Oh, the irony.
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The rule of thumb has always applied, that if you feel the need to respond to a TICTH post, start a separate thread. If it's worth discussing, it's worth discussing (and not necessarily in Hell - other boards are available). Otherwise, don't press the reply button.
Well I'll be darned. I've been reading TICTH threads for years and never heard this "rule of thumb." Sometimes there would be mention of starting a thread of it's own, but I thought the person who had consigned something to Hell was the one being encouraged to start a separate thread and not the person who responded.
Perhaps the hosts wouldn't have been so annoyed by our repeated breaking of this, "No responding!" rule if it had every actually been stated. Sometimes clarity is a better choice than clever insult.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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No, clever insults are always the best option.
Yes, hosts could leap in every other post with 'no responding', but that's simply unworkable and you're an unruly bunch at the best of times. At the worst of times it's like herding cats.
I appreciate that you all went to play . But we have the Circus for that.
[ 12. January 2018, 22:04: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The only real reason TICTH threads are in Hell is because Hell is in the title of the thread. There's nothing particularly Hellish about ... mud
17 people died in the mud I was talking about. A few are still missing. I drove through the area only hours before tons of mud and debris swept over the highway. That road is still closed, so if I had to get to my 81-year-old mother (who just had a minor surgery) in a hurry right now, it would take 6 hours instead of 2.
Tell me again how this is not hellish. Tell me 17 times. Or a few more.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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You put mud in a TICTH thread, rather than a separate mud killed 17 people thread.
You've been here longer than I have. You know the score.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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No, no, no. She mentioned people DIED. Where the thread was is irrelevant to your dismissal as “not Hellish”. If you had read her post, or clifdweller’s, you would see it wasn’t annoyance at having to get out the wellies or wash the car.
Fucking well worth being in Hell.
[ 12. January 2018, 23:36: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on
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You know, a little more thought before posting would make this feel a lot more like The Styx and a lot less like Hell.
It sounds like you are saying that the only way to have a TICTH post be authentically slotted into the right board would be for there to be a minimum of two locations so that one would be for the serious and one for the trivial. Unpalatable as I find that idea, I can see why you think just having an "H" for "Hell" in the acronym is not enough to necessarily warrant entrance into Hell. So, the hosts feel it necessary to judge whether or not something I, personally, condemn to Hell is Hell-ish enough to remain and that is too hard. Well, I guess it would be. So why not just move it all to a different board and have a reasonable rotation of hosts and off-periods of time where other topics are pursued? I doubt that anyone cares where it is.
Yet, there is also the issue of no discussion - on a discussion board - or our knuckles will be rapped and we will have crossed some impossible line that will trigger the closure of the thread and will cause so much upset among those who host the boards that the new version of the Ship will not allow such expressions. I can't imagine that would happen outside of Hell. That alone makes it Hellish, no?
Whimsy mixed with the serious and the thoughtful use of words and wit are what attracted me to the Ship. While I know it is not a democracy here, it sure doesn't feel reasonable to act this way.
Posted by simontoad (# 18096) on
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I propose that the thread be called WHAT CHEESES ME OFF and posted in Heaven or All Saints. I say that because I haven't yet grasped the difference between them.
I further propose that the actual complaint portion of the post must be typed with caps lock on. For example:
Martin I am soooo soooooory that your cat refused to eat her food again. Have you tried feeding her dog food? In other news, I WAS HANGING OUT THE WASHING WHEN A PARTICULARLY FEROCIOUS GUST OF WIND CAUSED IT TO SPIN BEFORE I HAD FIXED MY WHITE SHEET PROPERLY TO THE LINE. THE SHEET BLEW ONTO THE ROAD WHERE IT COVERED THE WINDSCREEN OF A TRUCK WHICH CAUSED IT TO VEER INTO THE PATH OF A GROUP OF SCHOOL CHILDREN WAITING FOR THEIR LATE AND VERY IRRESPONSIBLE PARENTS. NOW I CANT GET THE BLOODSTAINS OUT. SARD WONT CUT IT. NOT HAPPY. Advice appreciated.
I personally would enjoy dipping in and out of a WHAT CHEESES ME OFF thread, wherever it lived.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
You know, a little more thought before posting would make this feel a lot more like The Styx and a lot less like Hell.
It sounds like you are saying that the only way to have a TICTH post be authentically slotted into the right board would be for there to be a minimum of two locations so that one would be for the serious and one for the trivial.
Was this to me? Because this is not what I am saying at all.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
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Can't change the thing because it's always been that way. Even to the point of the thread title: gotta conform to whatever tradition holds. Reminded of some of those vestry/parish council meetings am I.
Well I'm sure there'd be any number of volunteers to specially police a whiny winge laugh and unsympathetically mock a bit our poor shit thread. Just say the word.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Was this to me?
No. Feel free to assume that is the case in all cases where you are not addressed directly. And perhaps a significant portion of the ones when you are.
Posted by RuthW (# 13) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
You put mud in a TICTH thread, rather than a separate mud killed 17 people thread.
You've been here longer than I have. You know the score.
I should have started a separate thread because I wanted to consign mud to hell after someone had already done so? I actually gave a hellish reason, too -- did you think my "pithy rant" was lacking in pithiness or rantiness?
Yes, I've been here longer than you. I was here, in fact, when a Hellhost started the first TICTH thread and laid out clear rules in the OP about not commenting on others' posts in the thread. nonprophet's current OP specifically says the thread is for those who want "to curse a bit, and attract some disinterested comment, false pity, etc." Now maybe that would have elicited some real, creative hellishness -- we'll never know what would have happened, will we? -- but it is clearly not setting up to be a pure TICTH thread. You decided to turn it into that, it seems, but didn't edit the OP to make that clear.
And so what if the thread wanders around some? It's not like reading Hell is a giant time suck these days. In the last 24 hours exactly two threads in Hell have posts, and you want to kill one of them.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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Like academic squabbles, there is so little at stake here.
To answer the more substantive questions:
Yes, hosts regularly move threads from one board to another, with the agreement of the new hosts. The problem with TICTH threads is that they so frequently drift from barely-Hellish to Heavenly in moments, and then potentially back again. It is neither fish nor fowl: most TICTH posts would properly belong on the prayer thread in AS.
I'm not arguing for the purity of Hell (we have the cancer thread for good reasons). I'm arguing that within the elasticity of the boards, there reaches a point where a topic or theme snaps, and rightly belongs elsewhere. TICTH is a like a bunch of primary school kids playing football. It veers all over the pitch. Refereeing that gets old, quickly.
And yes, Hell traffic is fairly light. But it does need regular attention. If there are posts, they need reading.
I'm more than willing to compromise. I let this incarnation run, and have done for others in the past. But Hell is not a playground, for your entertainment. It's a vital part of the Ship that help keeps it afloat.
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
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Life isn’t neat. The horrific is mixed with the trivial, the laughter is right there alongside the tears.
This is why I like TICTH. All human life is there.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
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Thanks for allowing this incarnation of TICTH.
I want to continue having a TICTH thread, and *always* have it going.
I also think that we should allow at least minimal comments and light discussion. We almost always wind up going that way, so we likely need that very much. And, in one incarnation of TICTH, a compromise was reached that we *could* do minimal comments, like one line.
If we do separate threads for our concerns, then H/As will have much more to read. From past experience, we're sometimes told a Hell thread we've started isn't worth its own thread. Catch-22.
Confessing long-time irritation: *This one thread* and its rules often seems like Shipmates are made for the rules, and not rules for the benefit of the Shipmates. (Sorry, but I've been through this many, many times.)
I think the beauty of TICTH is that we can vent minor *and* major annoyances and problems. And, when there's light discussion, we know we've been heard--and that can make a huge difference.
ETA: Doc Tor, I don't know of anyone who views TICTH as entertainment.
The prayer thread is different. Presumably, requests there are expected to be tossed in the direction of God, saints, etc. Not every Shipmate believes in those. And some TICTH things might not fit well on the prayer thread--not in the angry way we often state them here. A Heaven thread would have some of the same problems.
TICTH is a much-needed safety valve. When we have it and use it, we're likely to be in a better frame of mind to post on the other boards. And, AIUI, Hell itself is supposed to corral things that could spill all over the other boards. So TICTH fits.
And it always seems like there's a huge sigh of relief from Shipmates when TICTH starts up again.
H/As: I'm deeply grateful for all the work and hours that you put into the Ship. Without you, we wouldn't have this wonderful place where we can hang out with each other.
Please keep TICTH going permanently.
Many thanks.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
[ 13. January 2018, 08:22: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
Posted by Raptor Eye (# 16649) on
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Hell is the bucket of the ship where we can throw up when we need to. TICTH belongs there if we are not going to feel as if we've got to hold back. Some of us might get mildly sick, others the full deal, and we know it's the worst job to clear up after us.
Please let's keep it as it is, not all of the time but every now and again, as an outlet for the good of our health.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
ETA: Doc Tor, I don't know of anyone who views TICTH as entertainment.
quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
I know this is no democracy but it is one of the places where a little bit of steam is let off and where some of us find entertainment and solace about our situations too.
The thing is, TICTH threads were never officially banned. Just that they tended to be closed capriciously by a passing Hell host when it all got a bit too fluffy bunny for them to stomach.
It's not up to us to keep TICTH Hellish. We don't curate the thread. That's your job, and one that you (collectively) suck at. Such are the joys and disappointments of a public message board.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
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It wasn't a TICTH thread until they renamed it. They turned it into something else, not my idea. I was specifically hoping for something a little more fun. Read what Ruth wrote.
Sure they can do whatever they want. We know that.
Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
It wasn't a TICTH thread until they renamed it. They turned it into something else, not my idea. I was specifically hoping for something a little more fun. Read what Ruth wrote.
Sure they can do whatever they want. We know that.
Exactly. It's like the stories of the judges in rural Alabama. One person holds power and even long time members can't get past the pet peeve.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
It wasn't a TICTH thread until they renamed it. They turned it into something else, not my idea. I was specifically hoping for something a little more fun. Read what Ruth wrote.
Sure they can do whatever they want. We know that.
Exactly. It's like the stories of the judges in rural Alabama. One person holds power and even long time members can't get past the pet peeve.
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
When things go wretched and wrong, and you don't want a whole thread for it, but you'd like to curse a bit, and attract some disinterested comment, false pity, etc. That's why I started this thread.
Tell me again how this is not a TICTH thread posted by someone who knows full well that TICTH threads are not well received in Hell.
It had 'this is a duck' all over it, and now you act all hurt when I point out that yes, it actually is a duck. Geez.
Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on
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I believe there is value in have a TICTH thread for petty one-offs, after all we have an entire board to prevent Purgatory, Ecclesiastes and Kerygmania getting clogged up with topics that won't be decided this side of the Rapture (and maybe not even then).
IMHO TICTH can prevent thread proliferation and tangents which cannot be a bad thing.
YMMV.
Posted by balaam (# 4543) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
Rubbish, Balaam. Some hell threads, particularly calling people to hell, are started on the most trivial of grounds. Doesn't mean the thread is closed.
I like TICTH threads too, sometimes you just need to blow of steam. And I don't see how reading them is any more tedious than any other hell thread.
Hell is the place for personal stuff. It it's personal it belongs in Hell, I'm not complaining of that. Nor the letting off of steam, that is not trivial to you. If you need to let off steam, start a new thread and rant on.
But the other stuff, the "TICTH the cat for being sick and as I went to the loo in the night I stood in it," stuff, that is neither personal nor a need to let off steam, that's just life.
There should be a "That's just life" or something thread in heaven.
In fact I can remember that thread, it was called "Today I Consign to Heck." It was supposed to attract the non hellish stuff from the "Today I Consign to Hell thread." It didn't work. Even back then, what constituted a TICTH topic was being discussed.
Hell has a purpose on these boards. If the trivial is allowed, outside of the personal, then the purpose of Hell is diminished.
Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Like academic squabbles, there is so little at stake here.
If that were true, this thread would be far shorter.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
It should be like going for a beer or a cup of tea with friends, whom you don't like.
What does this mean, "friends whom you don't like"? It seems an oxymoron.
Posted by Pooks (# 11425) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
TICTH is a like a bunch of primary school kids playing football. It veers all over the pitch. Refereeing that gets old, quickly.
So, emm...what age group is allowed to play?
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The thing is, TICTH threads were never officially banned. Just that they tended to be closed capriciously by a passing Hell host when it all got a bit too fluffy bunny for them to stomach.
Capriciously...Now that is an elementary age mentality.
I am a fluffy bunny, but that doesn't mean I don't feel anger or annoyance. The thing is, sometimes I prefer to express my anger by having a laugh. Not everyone expresses anger or annoyance in the same way. (I think I have said this before, a long, long time ago.) So the question that I have for some time, but have not asked until now is: Is there a place for someone like me to get air on the Ship?
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Hell is the place for personal stuff. It it's personal it belongs in Hell, I'm not complaining of that.
ISTM that Hell is the place for interpersonal stuff. Plenty of personal stuff in ALL the other boards, particularly All Saints of course. It's just things between people that need to go to Hell.
Incidentally it's obnoxious as all fuck to take something personal to Hell and have all the Hellrats jump on it as insufficiently warranting a Hell call. Is it for personal stuff, or only for angry personal stuff? Dumbfucks.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Like academic squabbles, there is so little at stake here.
If that were true, this thread would be far shorter.
No, that's the whole point of mentioning academic squabbles - they're famous for having inverse heat and duration for the importance of the topic.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
ETA: Doc Tor, I don't know of anyone who views TICTH as entertainment.
Oh, I could actually name names one this, but I will leave it at all the TICTH threads IME have that element interwoven. And often after a HH warning. In my recollection, those are the types of posts that generally get the thread closed.
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Was this to me?
No. Feel free to assume that is the case in all cases where you are not addressed directly. And perhaps a significant portion of the ones when you are.
It. Is. ALL. About. ME.
Everything. Everyone. The Very Existence of the Universe.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
It wasn't a TICTH thread until they renamed it. They turned it into something else, not my idea. I was specifically hoping for something a little more fun. Read what Ruth wrote.
Sure they can do whatever they want. We know that.
Exactly. It's like the stories of the judges in rural Alabama. One person holds power and even long time members can't get past the pet peeve.
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
When things go wretched and wrong, and you don't want a whole thread for it, but you'd like to curse a bit, and attract some disinterested comment, false pity, etc. That's why I started this thread.
Tell me again how this is not a TICTH thread posted by someone who knows full well that TICTH threads are not well received in Hell.
It had 'this is a duck' all over it, and now you act all hurt when I point out that yes, it actually is a duck. Geez.
First off don't tell me how I feel. I observe the need to control, wondering about your motivation. Your feelings are your own. And mine are mine.
Second, you want it a certain way, and you may have it. You have the control. Some of us disagree. You want to win. You have won before we started discussing this. Just thought it would be fun to have something different. There's no hill to die on.
Posted by lily pad (# 11456) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Like academic squabbles, there is so little at stake here.
If that were true, this thread would be far shorter.
No, that's the whole point of mentioning academic squabbles - they're famous for having inverse heat and duration for the importance of the topic.
Indeed. I understand that. I question the comparison entirely. The people who are posting are not the shit disturbers with a possible exception or two. And it is not an academic squabble and shouldn't be compared to one. Trivializing the efforts of people when they are posting in good faith, in The Styx, as instructed feels a lot like bullying. I'll bow out now as my fluffiness is obviously unwelcome here and not up to your standards and let the rest of you carry on the conversation.
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on
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It seems that the Hell hosts can be hellish in Styx as well as in Hell?
How would a thread called Rants, Moans and Whinges do for AS? Acceptable? Then we could be as angry and whining as we liked, and people, including the Hosts, would have to be supportive.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Incidentally it's obnoxious as all fuck to take something personal to Hell and have all the Hellrats jump on it as insufficiently warranting a Hell call. Is it for personal stuff, or only for angry personal stuff? Dumbfucks.
For the record, that's an old discussion that was decided long ago. The primary purpose of Hell is to contain personal arguments that would tear the Ship apart if they happen on the other boards (we've been there, such arguments have ripped us apart), and would be almost as unhealthy if suppressed by heavy hosting.
We found early on that commentary about the Hell-worthiness of Hell calls has the effect of disrupting that role. If someone has a problem with someone else they need to feel free to take that to Hell, having others immediately jump on the thread to call it "lame" or otherwise insufficiently entertaining discourages people from taking their arguments to Hell.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
The people who are posting are not the shit disturbers with a possible exception or two.
We try to be source-agnostic in the Styx. You imply that the particular people bringing this up should not be ignored, but I'd like to assure everybody that we do not mean to ignore anybody in the Styx.
quote:
And it is not an academic squabble and shouldn't be compared to one.
My sense is that it is a very apt comparison. But perhaps the nature of my bias is that I don't give even the slightest flying fuck about TITCH or its fate, precisely because I consider it so insignificant.
The points raised about the un-parsable intermingling of humour and pain and about the impossibility of determining significance are good ones, and are worth contemplating. We'll wrangle it more offstage. But it should be pointed out that the ideal purposes of the boards is only able to realized to the degree that the boards can be pragmatically sustained. If any particular thread causes the Hosts too much annoyance, they might close it.
These two sentiments:
quote:
Trivializing the efforts of people when they are posting in good faith, in The Styx, as instructed feels a lot like bullying.
quote:
Orignally posted by jacobsen:
It seems that the Hell hosts can be hellish in Styx as well as in Hell?
...are unfortunate. Your comments and participation are indeed appreciated, even though some annoyance might have been expressed.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The primary purpose of Hell is to contain personal arguments that would tear the Ship apart if they happen on the other boards (we've been there, such arguments have ripped us apart), and would be almost as unhealthy if suppressed by heavy hosting.
In the briefer time I have been here, the purpose of Hell appears to have broadened in practice.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Incidentally it's obnoxious as all fuck to take something personal to Hell and have all the Hellrats jump on it as insufficiently warranting a Hell call. Is it for personal stuff, or only for angry personal stuff? Dumbfucks.
For the record, that's an old discussion that was decided long ago. The primary purpose of Hell is to contain personal arguments that would tear the Ship apart if they happen on the other boards (we've been there, such arguments have ripped us apart), and would be almost as unhealthy if suppressed by heavy hosting.
We found early on that commentary about the Hell-worthiness of Hell calls has the effect of disrupting that role. If someone has a problem with someone else they need to feel free to take that to Hell, having others immediately jump on the thread to call it "lame" or otherwise insufficiently entertaining discourages people from taking their arguments to Hell.
I have seen a hell of a lot of that kind of heckling in the time I've been here. Are new hell hosts alerted to this policy?
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I have seen a hell of a lot of that kind of heckling in the time I've been here. Are new hell hosts alerted to this policy?
This is a reasonable point, and one I'm minded to heed.
jacobsen's suggestion of an AS thread - given that almost all TICTH comments are, as implied, based on Just One Of Those Damn Things - something that perhaps we should also take backstage and discuss.
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
No, that's the whole point of mentioning academic squabbles - they're famous for having inverse heat and duration for the importance of the topic.
The saying "Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small" is often attributed to Henry Kissinger, but Samuel Johnson may have written its (much more prolix) predecessor in 1765. Wherever it came from, it's certainly true.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
:
Doc Tor--
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
ETA: Doc Tor, I don't know of anyone who views TICTH as entertainment.
quote:
Originally posted by lily pad:
I know this is no democracy but it is one of the places where a little bit of steam is let off and where some of us find entertainment and solace about our situations too.
The thing is, TICTH threads were never officially banned. Just that they tended to be closed capriciously by a passing Hell host when it all got a bit too fluffy bunny for them to stomach.
...which is banning without the name, ISTM. And why are Hell hosts so allergic to fluffy posts? It's not like they have to eat them. If anything, I'd think fluffier posts would be easier for hostly perusal, because they're much less likely to contain stuff they have to act on.
And, from what you said, it sounds like hosts close threads when in a bad mood...
quote:
It's not up to us to keep TICTH Hellish. We don't curate the thread. That's your job, and one that you (collectively) suck at. Such are the joys and disappointments of a public message board.
Uh, no. You (gen.) *do* curate the TICTH thread. Hell hosts pop in and say something isn't Hellish enough, and they're going to close the thread if we keep that up. And, eventually, they do.
Respectfully: Look, we keep going through this. I think that the fact that we keep doing TICTH with a mixture of annoyance, venting, and minor support/discussion means TICTH fills a felt need. A long-term felt need.
So why don't we just find a way to make it work? Venting, annoyance, minor support/discussion, and all???
Thx.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Life isn’t neat. The horrific is mixed with the trivial, the laughter is right there alongside the tears.
This is why I like TICTH. All human life is there.
This.
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on
:
GK:
If a particular type of thread keeps being closed because its contents aren’t in keeping with the board it’s on (as happens with TICTH threads, as you point out), then perhaps that’s a sign that that type of thread doesn’t belong on that board.
There are plenty of other boards on the Ship where being supportive, cute, fluffy etc. is fine, indeed positively encouraged (All Saints being the one that immediately springs to mind). If TICTH can’t happen without those elements, indeed if TICTH is valued precisely because of those elements, then maybe it belongs, in a slightly modified form, in AS or wherever.
Also, while the hosts may or may not curate the boards, it’s surely the responsibility of us shippies to make sure that we post in ways that are appropriate to the board we’re posting on (eg hellish comments belong in Hell and not elsewhere; hostly decisions are queried in The Styx and not elsewhere etc.). It can’t be the case that Shippies post whatever they want, wherever they want, and expect the hosts to clean up the mess. That’s a recipe for chaos.
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
The only real reason TICTH threads are in Hell is because Hell is in the title of the thread. There's nothing particularly Hellish about
snip
cellulitis.
snip
The Hell hosts demand red meat, raw, warm and preferably still bleeding, not these milquetoast offerings.
Well, Doc, that just shows your lack of knowledge about cellulitis. The affected limb was indeed. red, raw, eventually bleeding and definitely hellish. None of the online pics I've seen are as bad as my own experience, which is why I haven't posted a link.
Cellulitis is a condition of which the possible consequences are MRSA, amputation and/or death. If that doesn't qualify for TICTH it's hard to see what would.
[ 14. January 2018, 08:42: Message edited by: jacobsen ]
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
:
That sounds truly terrible. ( ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
)
I'll bet Doc Tor confused it with cellulite and was afraid he was going to have to hear about my dimpled thighs.
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I have seen a hell of a lot of that kind of heckling in the time I've been here. Are new hell hosts alerted to this policy?
This is a reasonable point, and one I'm minded to heed.
jacobsen's suggestion of an AS thread - given that almost all TICTH comments are, as implied, based on Just One Of Those Damn Things - something that perhaps we should also take backstage and discuss.
Thank you. I think that would work, so long as strong feelings and language are allowed, which I’m sure they would be.
ETA - and comments, of course.
[ 14. January 2018, 12:07: Message edited by: Boogie ]
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
Hell is other people.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Hell is other people.
Thank you, Jean Paul. Allow me to show you the exit.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
:
To round up the latest comments:
Yes, I'm aware that cellulitis is a serious, hospitalising condition. I don't live in a hermetically sealed box. But it is, like the weather, One Of Those Things.
I am reliably informed that strong feelings and bad language are not barred from either AS (or Heaven for that matter, when we recently had to send a thread from Hell).
No, hosts do not curate (since Hosting-lite). We hover, like ghosts. In my case, angry, vengeful ghosts. Yes, we expect shipmates to think about their post and whether it's suitable for the board concerned. The Hell guidelines are clear and succinct, and may go some way to indicate that 'fluffy' does not really belong there.
Posted by Pooks (# 11425) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
No, hosts do not curate (since Hosting-lite). We hover, like ghosts. In my case, angry, vengeful ghosts. Yes, we expect shipmates to think about their post and whether it's suitable for the board concerned. The Hell guidelines are clear and succinct, and may go some way to indicate that 'fluffy' does not really belong there.
Well, what's written on top of the damn Hell board is this: "This is Hell. Please note that posting here is the equivalent of drawing a big, fat bull's eye on your chest. Got a complaint, a rant or a personal argument to settle? Feel free to add it to the uproar – so long as you have a thick skin to match. <*snip*> "
It doesn't say that fluffy doesn't belong. Nor does it said Hell requires bloody red meat. So if a fluffy bunny is prepared to be spanked in Hell with his or her asbestos underwear on for being too fluffy, why is that not acceptable given the guideline?
But I get that you have decided that fluffy bunny has no place in Hell under your stewardship. So I shall say no more and will leave you in peace. My thanks and best wishes to you and all who run this Ship.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
It would be nice to see if All Saints hosts want things like: "you're an idiot", and "you deserve your misfortune" and the like, with more swear works on that board. "You shit the bed", along with other forms of nonsupport. Noting of course that the thread I started was to be one where we mock and express nonsympathy etc, and not the distilled single point of troubles without any reply as there's a wish to interpret it as.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
:
Saying that fluffy does not belong in Hell is no more than saying serious debate does not belong in Heaven, nor prayer requests in Purgatory, nor games in All Saints. My co-stewardship has nothing to do with this policy, although my interpretation of this will differ to other Hell hosts present and past.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Saying that fluffy does not belong in Hell is no more than saying serious debate does not belong in Heaven, nor prayer requests in Purgatory, nor games in All Saints. My co-stewardship has nothing to do with this policy, although my interpretation of this will differ to other Hell hosts present and past.
I think Pooks' point was, if it's a policy, it's an unwritten one.
Posted by Eutychus (# 3081) on
:
TICTH to go... does that mean there'll be a takeaway version soon? A bit like the "packed orgy" in a lunch box in Asterix in Switzerland?
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
Shall we try a misfortune and mockery thread in Heaven or AS as an experiment?
Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Pooks:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
No, hosts do not curate (since Hosting-lite). We hover, like ghosts. In my case, angry, vengeful ghosts. Yes, we expect shipmates to think about their post and whether it's suitable for the board concerned. The Hell guidelines are clear and succinct, and may go some way to indicate that 'fluffy' does not really belong there.
Well, what's written on top of the damn Hell board is this: "This is Hell. Please note that posting here is the equivalent of drawing a big, fat bull's eye on your chest. Got a complaint, a rant or a personal argument to settle? Feel free to add it to the uproar – so long as you have a thick skin to match. <*snip*> "
It doesn't say that fluffy doesn't belong. Nor does it said Hell requires bloody red meat. So if a fluffy bunny is prepared to be spanked in Hell with his or her asbestos underwear on for being too fluffy, why is that not acceptable given the guideline?
But I get that you have decided that fluffy bunny has no place in Hell under your stewardship. So I shall say no more and will leave you in peace. My thanks and best wishes to you and all who run this Ship.
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Saying that fluffy does not belong in Hell is no more than saying serious debate does not belong in Heaven, nor prayer requests in Purgatory, nor games in All Saints. My co-stewardship has nothing to do with this policy, although my interpretation of this will differ to other Hell hosts present and past.
I think Pooks' point was, if it's a policy, it's an unwritten one.
I'd note that the Hell description goes on to say:
quote:
The flames are fast and furious here, so back out if you don't want to be roasted to a crisp... our normal rules on civility are abandoned on this board.
And the Hell board guidelines state:
quote:
The atmosphere round here is much more Old Testament than New, so prepare yourself for a bit of fire and brimstone.
They seem a fairly clear statement that Hell isn't the appropriate place for "fluffy".
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
It's a fairly clear statement that fluffies can expected to get roasted, not that they're not welcome. As I read it, Pooks wasn't complaining about being roasted, but about the fact that the "no fluffies" rule is not explicit.
Posted by Ohher (# 18607) on
:
All very true. Yet it's also the case that Hell threads not infrequently go all Purgatorial -- far more so than Hellish -- and this gets noted (sometimes) within the threads where this happens. Rarely, though (at least from what I've seen) do those threads get booted out of Hell and into Purgatory.
It seems that there is broad agreement that Hell is no place for fluff & bunnies. Neither, though, are the TICTH threads I've seen. Do they end up containing incursions of fluff? Yes. But if we consider a TICTH thread as basically a series of disgruntled OPs which draw limited commentary running both to fluff as well as to mockery, actual critical thinking, and even occasional discussion and insults, the real problem here seems to be that Hell Hosts just don't like managing them. And the Real Presence of a TICTH thread in Hell demands this of said Hell Hosts.
Considering the handsome wages we're heaping on our Hell Hosts for their efforts, TICTH's apparent popularity among Shipmates counts as nil. If a TICTH thread exists going forward, a different solution must be found either for TICTH's location, or for its Hosting. Self-monitoring has apparently not worked. Are there Shipmates who might volunteer to act as official hosts for a TICTH thread on its own, to keep it within whatever boundaries apply to whichever Board it lives on?
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
Way back when I was required to give a shit about TICTH, it was not the banter or the fluffiness or anything of the sort that was a problem for me. No, the problem was the eventual extrapolation of the thread's main benefit: the lowered bar for contribution.
Contribution is theoretically great, and most often is. The TICTH threads (in all their various incarnations) have always been popular because of how much easier it is to get that wee dopamine surge of having Said Something. It can generally be expected to be one of the more popular threads in Hell whenever it persists. But that exact ease of participation turns ugly, as it starts overwhelmingly pulling for the petty, the mundane, and the pointless. That by itself is not too big of a deal, humans being humans and all. But as the bar drifts down and down, Sarky and myself would start finding ourselves increasingly hating everybody babbling away on it with their insipid stream-of-consciousness non-stop whining about every little fucking thing. It made the whole Hellhosting endeavour problematic, as we found ourselves burning out and really having difficulty containing the frustrations to just Hell.
So. We took breaks from allowing it. For our own sakes, for the sake of our relationships with the rest of the Crew, and for the sake of the health of the Ship.
This hard-earned wisdom is part of why the shinier Hellhosts are more actively cautious about letting TICTH steamroll. It's really hard to tell people they can't have something they have come to experience as "allowed" or "deserved".
For all Doc Tor's snarling about the current TICTH thread, you'll notice that he has not actually closed it. That says something - mostly that he hasn't burned out quite yet. Whatever arguments you might raise here for why you want it, none are going to be as important as how annoyed with it our lone Hellhost happens to be on any given day.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's a fairly clear statement that fluffies can expected to get roasted, not that they're not welcome. As I read it, Pooks wasn't complaining about being roasted, but about the fact that the "no fluffies" rule is not explicit.
This. To the infinite power.
Some of the Ship's best, most sensitive discussions have been in Hell. On regular threads. The kind of threads we pull up when someone wants to know about the Ship, what it's for, and why we all hang out here.
When I first boarded, I was terrified of the Hell board. And it was especially nasty then. It didn't help when an H/A posted Hellishly on a very nice Purg thread, as a Shipmate--then officially said "oh well, this thread needs to go to Hell now", and moved it. I spoke up at the time, but it didn't do any good. Wasn't a happy camper.
But I gradually eased into Hell; and, eventually, after some of the nastier flaming and abuse settled down, it became one of my favorite boards--specifically *because* of the discussions and support in an unexpected place.
Hell is supposed to corral stuff that would mess up the other boards. Someone said, upthread, that TICTH makes a mess for Hell hosts to clean up. What kind of mess does it make???
This may sound weird, but please bear with me. When laying out sidewalks for a new building and its green space, some landscapers have learned that it's a mistake to arbitrarily put the sidewalks where the landscapers think they should go. Instead, they hold back on the sidewalks, and wait to see where people naturally wear down paths, and put the sidewalks *there*.
Same thing with TICTH. Whenever we've got it, we gladly put it to use, in the way that we need. Shutting down TICTH, trying to make it into something else, is like putting in arbitrary sidewalks, and getting mad when people walk on the grass.
We need TICTH. Please adapt, and let us have it.
Thanks. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
:
Your appeal to "need" makes it sound like an intervention is more necessary than enabling.
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
:
Rook--
We're not allowed to need the Ship, other Shipmates, the various boards?
Errr...why do you think we come here?
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
[ 15. January 2018, 02:48: Message edited by: Golden Key ]
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
Rook,
Thank you for the TICH history and breakdown. It does help to have perspective.
I was also going to post that there is only so much we should expect from people who are doing this for free, but then I remembered you doubled the host's salaries. So get it moving, yeah?
Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on
:
Rook--
Just FYI: I hadn't yet seen your "Way back when" post when I posted just after it. Thanks for the backstage info. I'm processing it.
Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on
:
Back in the day, when I was a hell host, I remember the problem with ticth. It tended to devolve into a party thread - which doesn't really work for readers. It stopped people starting appropriate hell threads, they'd post on ticth - the topic would make other posters angry too and they'd post in reply (about some serious topic like a massacre) and then someone would come along and ticth the design of flowerpots thereby infuriating those who were discussing the massacre and the whole thing would turn into a big mess.
It started to be something we'd go with for short periods intermittently. Problem is you'd close it, thinking OK that's it for a month and the next day someone would start another one.
Posted by Boogie (# 13538) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Shall we try a misfortune and mockery thread in Heaven or AS as an experiment?
I’d say AS so that it can be serious or fluffy or just ‘meh’, as it is now.
In fact, how about moving the present TICTH thread to AS and seeing how it goes and what the hosts think?
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Contribution is theoretically great, and most often is. The TICTH threads (in all their various incarnations) have always been popular because of how much easier it is to get that wee dopamine surge of having Said Something. It can generally be expected to be one of the more popular threads in Hell whenever it persists. But that exact ease of participation turns ugly, as it starts overwhelmingly pulling for the petty, the mundane, and the pointless. That by itself is not too big of a deal, humans being humans and all. But as the bar drifts down and down, Sarky and myself would start finding ourselves increasingly hating everybody babbling away on it with their insipid stream-of-consciousness non-stop whining about every little fucking thing. It made the whole Hellhosting endeavour problematic, as we found ourselves burning out and really having difficulty containing the frustrations to just Hell.
Aha! The truth will out. It makes you guys hate us.
Remember that thread we had called, "Blog of Mr. Nobody?" I loved that thing. All anyone had to say was, "I'm wearing my stripy socks," and it was good.
So, yes, I'll admit I like to Say Something. I posted therefore I am. I also like to vent my irritations here, as it spares my family.
Adding in OhHer's nice reminder that the hosts are unpaid and so allowed to have their way about things and I guess we really need to move it somewhere else...
However, I don't want to be posting on the newly relocated TICTH in Heaven or Purg or AS, which I tend to forget is even down there, and have the host tell me I, "sound angry," and really should rein it in, etc. That happens to me a lot while speaking freely on other boards and it hurts my feelings, something which never happens when Doc Tor says something rude to me in Hell because it's somehow expected and doesn't feel as personal.
Posted by Ohher (# 18607) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Back in the day, when I was a hell host, I remember the problem with ticth. It tended to devolve into a party thread - which doesn't really work for readers.
Ah. So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
Indeed: it shows the divide between party-goers and party hosts.
I may think it is a shit-ton of fun to dump Jello in your swimming pool and think it makes for a memorable party. You as host may be less enamoured of this plan. Similarly, TICTH threads tend to turn messy and gross for hosts to have to deal with.* I don't see why it is problematic to consider that.
*It's the advice I can't stand, and which IMHO deserves to be nuked from orbit. e.g. "TICTH itchy socks." "Have you tried silk? Banana peels?" etc.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
If someone has a problem with someone else they need to feel free to take that to Hell, having others immediately jump on the thread to call it "lame" or otherwise insufficiently entertaining discourages people from taking their arguments to Hell.
I have seen a hell of a lot of that kind of heckling in the time I've been here. Are new hell hosts alerted to this policy?
I'm picking this up fairly late because it ties in with what RooK later said.
quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
the problem was the eventual extrapolation of the thread's main benefit: the lowered bar for contribution.
Contribution is theoretically great, and most often is. The TICTH threads (in all their various incarnations) have always been popular because of how much easier it is to get that wee dopamine surge of having Said Something.
The "lamest thread ever" type of comments has the effect of raising the bar to contribute to Hell. We may not have been entirely consistent about calling it, but we don't want anyone to discourage someone with a genuine (to them) grievance expressing that in Hell.
As RooK notes, TICTH type threads have the opposite effect of lowering the bar of participation.
As RooK says, participation is good. We're all for having as many people use Hell as need to. But, at the end of the day there is a bar in Hell ... a necessary minimum thickness of skin, an adequate set of asbestos undies. There is a difficult balance between setting the bar too high and people with grievances feeling it's too hot to participate, and setting it too low such that we fill the place with the smell of burnt bunny fur.
And, it's a balance that will always result in some people thinking we've got it wrong.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Back in the day, when I was a hell host, I remember the problem with ticth. It tended to devolve into a party thread - which doesn't really work for readers.
Ah. So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
It works for some readers, for others...
As a campaigner for the thread's existence, and one who doesn't have to read every post, I still find the sheer silly, artless bilge that accumulates on that thread annoying.
'TICTH the neighbour whose dog bit my leg and sent me to A&E for 3 hours and 20 stitches!'
'I had a puppy wee on my shoe, once'
'I love puppies'
'I can't stand the little vermin'
'How dare you insult puppies!'
No, not a verbatim quote from a TICTH, but it might as well be.
TICTH serves a valuable purpose, but someone always cocks it up.
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ohher:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doublethink.:
'TICTH the neighbour whose dog bit my leg and sent me to A&E for 3 hours and 20 stitches!'
Tangent alert If he got treated within three hours the hospital was doing well to accomplish that within the recommended four. End tangent
[ 15. January 2018, 15:51: Message edited by: jacobsen ]
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ohher:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Doublethink.:
'TICTH the neighbour whose dog bit my leg and sent me to A&E for 3 hours and 20 stitches!'
Tangent alert If he got treated within three hours the hospital was doing well to accomplish that within the recommended four. End tangent
Been awhile since I was in A&E for something that minor.
Posted by Doublethink. (# 1984) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink.:
Back in the day, when I was a hell host, I remember the problem with ticth. It tended to devolve into a party thread - which doesn't really work for readers.
Ah. So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
A) There have been about fifty posts, how many people do you imagine are posting on this thread ?
B) We don't have ticth often now, people forget, do you remember the one that turned into a running battle between cyclists and drivers ?
(Also can I just point out I've been misattributed in the last coupla posts - I didn't say that thing about A&E.)
[ 15. January 2018, 16:13: Message edited by: Doublethink. ]
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
The "lamest thread ever" type of comments has the effect of raising the bar to contribute to Hell. We may not have been entirely consistent about calling it, but we don't want anyone to discourage someone with a genuine (to them) grievance expressing that in Hell.
"Not entirely consistent" is being VERY generous to yourselves. "Not usually cognizant (or give-a-fuck-tual)" would be more accurate. God bless you guys, you have a (relatively) thankless job, and the vast majority of the time do it well. But if there's one thing y'all don't do so well, it's shutting down third-party heckling on calls to Hell.
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
TICTH serves a valuable purpose, but someone always cocks it up.
Hard to think of anything in this life that that's not true of, really.
Posted by no prophet's flag is set so... (# 15560) on
:
Will the future be the same as the past?
-it will be exactly the same!
-it won't be identical, but it will closely rhyme!
-it will be different!
-it isn't fair to call a TICTH thread a thread which was started with a different premise specifically involving delicious insensitivity and mockery! Can't we just have some fun?
-I am a host/admin/farm implement deployer/know the history of the Ship better than the likes of you, and I will have it my way because I am authorized and I really do enjoy biting and drinking blood, and I can easily beat you all at once with both arms tied behind my back!
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
But if there's one thing y'all don't do so well, it's shutting down third-party heckling on calls to Hell.
The difficulty is, and always will be, defining unhelpful heckling from valid contributions. We don't want a situation where the only people who can post on a Hell thread are the person being called and the person doing the calling. All are welcome to post - supporting the person called or the person doing the calling. IMO telling someone that they're over reacting is part of that. Saying the thread is not sufficiently entertaining isn't. Telling the difference is an art, not a science.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
But if there's one thing y'all don't do so well, it's shutting down third-party heckling on calls to Hell.
The difficulty is, and always will be, defining unhelpful heckling from valid contributions. We don't want a situation where the only people who can post on a Hell thread are the person being called and the person doing the calling. All are welcome to post - supporting the person called or the person doing the calling. IMO telling someone that they're over reacting is part of that. Saying the thread is not sufficiently entertaining isn't. Telling the difference is an art, not a science.
And y'all are human, so you are going to cock it up at times. And sometimes issues are addressed practically, not fairly.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
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Don't forget our ability to be unfairly impractical. Which is done purely for entertainment.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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Human-ish.
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Ohher:
So that must be why current readers are showing up here by tens and dozens to plead for the life of TICTH.
Indeed: it shows the divide between party-goers and party hosts.
I may think it is a shit-ton of fun to dump Jello in your swimming pool and think it makes for a memorable party. You as host may be less enamoured of this plan. Similarly, TICTH threads tend to turn messy and gross for hosts to have to deal with.* I don't see why it is problematic to consider that.
*It's the advice I can't stand, and which IMHO deserves to be nuked from orbit. e.g. "TICTH itchy socks." "Have you tried silk? Banana peels?" etc.
Really? Someone saying, "Have you tried silk?" is messy and gross and on a par with filling someone's private pool with Jello, thus creating a need for an expensive professional cleaner?
Message board hosts are similar to real life party hosts in name only. We aren't really going to anyone's house. We aren't really eating their food or spilling wine on their sofa. There will be zero expense or clean-up for them.
As message board members in good standing we are all invited, not party crashers with mayhem on our mind.
No, what this is more like is a party in the condo community clubhouse with all "entertainment" provided by the guests themselves.
The "hosts" are simply people elected by the condo commission to see that the rules are obeyed. It might be said that a host at that sort of party who wanted to kick rule-abiding people out just because he found their conversation boring was overstepping his bounds.
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
The "hosts" are simply people elected by the condo commission to see that the rules are obeyed.
Really? We elect the hosts of these boards? I was unaware. You will have to direct me to the pages where nominations, campaigns, and voting occurred, as well as the rules of this electoral process.
More seriously, since you don't agree with my analogy and I don't agree with yours, we will have to agree to disagree.
The more I read this thread, the more sympathy I have for Doc Tor's position on TICTH.
The worst thing about the decline of TICTH threads is that it is precipitated by well-intentioned people, who want to provide helpful advice, solidarity, their own sometimes-relevant experiences, or well-meant arguments against the complaint. In their attempt to be kindly, helpful, well-intentioned, or just chatty, they fuck up the thread. What is a virtue elsewhere - in the dominion of Heaven and/or the Saints - is, appropriately, a vice in Hell.
Posted by Uncle Pete (# 10422) on
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As a former Hellhost, I am not unhappy to see it gone.
Posted by Twilight (# 2832) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
The "hosts" are simply people elected by the condo commission to see that the rules are obeyed.
Really? We elect the hosts of these boards? I was unaware. You will have to direct me to the pages where nominations, campaigns, and voting occurred, as well as the rules of this electoral process.
No. In real life the people living in the condominiums elect a few of their group to help keep things in order. I just thought those people were closer to the hosts on this board than people throwing parties in their own homes. Alike in their function not in how they came to be hosts. Not exactly alike, just similar. You may want to direct me to the evidence of shipmates going to the homes of our hosts and admins and ruining their pools.
My analogy wasn't perfect, but yours was such a stretch as to not be an analogy at all.
Leaf:
In their attempt to be kindly, helpful, well-intentioned, or just chatty, they fuck up the thread.
Oh the horror.
Posted by Leaf (# 14169) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
In their attempt to be kindly, helpful, well-intentioned, or just chatty, they fuck up the thread.
Oh the horror.
I know, right? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
In most other contexts, they'd be a blessing. Such is the nature of Hell.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Don't forget our ability to be unfairly impractical. Which is done purely for entertainment.
Ours, or yours?
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
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Sadism and masochism are closely related.
Posted by Doc Tor (# 9748) on
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As Rook notes, the current incarnation of TICTH is still open and, as stated on the second post of the thread, will stay open* until we move platforms.
Also noted is the apparent need for something TICTH-ish. There is discussion twixt board hosts as to possible solutions, which include the current status quo.
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on
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Thank you, Doc-Tor
Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on
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Admin and hosts opposition to TITCH threads is both arbitrary and gratuitous but they know that and don't seem to care about the feedback of shipmates on this topic.
Posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider (# 76) on
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quote:
Originally posted by RooK:
Sadism and masochism are closely related.
"Beat me! Beat me!
"No! Shan't!"
Posted by Ohher (# 18607) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Admin and hosts opposition to TITCH threads is both arbitrary and gratuitous but they know that and don't seem to care about the feedback of shipmates on this topic.
With respect, Caissa, is that quite fair? The current TICTH remains open, and I seem to recall that this thread has spurred some backstage discussion of possible solutions.
Also, it's worth keeping in mind that those of us without experience as a volunteer Host or Admin may not be well-situated to fully appreciate the annoyance value of TICTH for those who are / have been.
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Admin and hosts opposition to TITCH threads is both arbitrary and gratuitous but they know that and don't seem to care about the feedback of shipmates on this topic.
Alternatively, Admin and Hosts opposition to TICTH threads is both arbitrary and gratuitous - intentionally so that we can gather round at the pub and laugh at the Shipmates pain.
Not suggesting that it is so, just wondering why you didn't finish your extrapolation there.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Admin and hosts opposition to TITCH threads is both arbitrary and gratuitous but they know that and don't seem to care about the feedback of shipmates on this topic.
I Thought This Was a Democratic Website!
Posted by RooK (# 1852) on
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Way to 1-up the ITTWACW.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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I upped my acronym. Up yours!
Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on
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I Thought This Was An Ecumenical Website !
okay, who's doing F ?
Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on
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If this was truly a place of "unrest anything would go in Hell.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
If this was truly a place of "unrest anything would go in Hell.
The definition of that word” doesn’t include totality.
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
If this was truly a place of "unrest anything would go in Hell.
That appears to equate "Unrestful" with "personally abusive". Personally I don't make that equation.
Posted by Caissa (# 16710) on
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Let's cut to chase, those in charge make the rules and they have little regard for Shipmates' opinions on such minor issues as the nature of Hell threads. Styx is supposed to be for discussing rulings etc. but the powers that be only pay lip service to this role. And, since it's their site that is their prerogative. Happy sailing!
Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Let's cut to chase, those in charge make the rules and they have little regard for Shipmates' opinions on such minor issues as the nature of Hell threads. Styx is supposed to be for discussing rulings etc. but the powers that be only pay lip service to this role. And, since it's their site that is their prerogative. Happy sailing!
I beg to disagree. The Admins and Hosts always seem to weigh the pros and cons of decisions, and there's apparently a lot of discussion in the Hosts' lounge (where the GIN is kept). I think we should double their pay again.
Posted by Ohher (# 18607) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Let's cut to chase, those in charge make the rules and they have little regard for Shipmates' opinions on such minor issues as the nature of Hell threads. Styx is supposed to be for discussing rulings etc. but the powers that be only pay lip service to this role. And, since it's their site that is their prerogative. Happy sailing!
Sure. That's why neither RooK nor Alan Cresswell could be bothered even to acknowledge, much less respond to, your post, and why the current TICTH thread in Hell is now permanently shuttered, locked, and abandoned. Heartless, soulless tyrants, the lot of them. What's got up your nose, Caissa? You clearly have a complaint to lodge. Complaints are more readily dealt with when made plain, though.
Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Let's cut to chase, those in charge make the rules and they have little regard for Shipmates' opinions on such minor issues as the nature of Hell threads. Styx is supposed to be for discussing rulings etc. but the powers that be only pay lip service to this role. And, since it's their site that is their prerogative. Happy sailing!
They get it wrong at times, yes. One could find flaws in some of the applications, yes. But any serious reading of Styx and the results of such don't support your conclusion.
This isn't a "rah, rah, yea for the hosts" post. As I said, they get it wrong sometimes. But they do make the effort.
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
I Thought This Was An Ecumenical Website !
okay, who's doing F ?
I Thought This Was A Freaking Website
Posted by Alan Cresswell (# 31) on
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A good selection of freaks
Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Let's cut to chase, those in charge make the rules and they have little regard for Shipmates' opinions on such minor issues as the nature of Hell threads.
To the contrary, some Hellhosts actually pay quite close attention to what the people want. I know I certainly did. That way, I knew I was pissing off as many unworthy minions as possible.
"Arbitrary and Capricious" is sometimes our prerogative, always our goal.
Posted by Rossweisse (# 2349) on
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Perhaps "Arbitrary and Capricious" should be their automatic taglines?
I'm quite fond of them, though.
Posted by mousethief (# 953) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Happy sailing!
Does this mean you're leaving?
Posted by jacobsen (# 14998) on
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Will there be a flotilla of welcoming vessels?
The vessels concerned could be hand-held, containing suitably mood-changing liquids. Mine's red, though we notice that others prefer GIN.
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