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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Curacy support
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
We have a thread for those going through the discernment process, and a job support thread, but I wondered if anyone else would value a support thread for those of us awaiting invitation to first title parishes.
I've had my meeting with the Bishop and DDO and am now waiting for a letter. With so many in college already having been invited to consider a title parish I feeo very isolated. How are others coping?
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
I've had my letter and it isn't good news as I'm in an exporting diocese and I'm in the process of being, um, exported. I know it isn't personal but it feels rubbish.
Hey ho...
I hope you hear soon Jante.
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
Dear both, speaking as one who started in his Title parish in 1978, I'm looking forward to following this thread and hearing how much better things are now than they were then....
If, as I suspect, How Things Really Are doesn't quite reflect How Things Are Supposed To Be, then maybe I can even offer some support as well? ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
I was ordained in the 90's and I remember clearly the tension at the theological college at the start of the last year.
First of all, there were the smug so and sos who knew that they were being kept on by their sponsoring dioceses (usually because they were the ones who had been busily sucking up to their bishops for some time). These people were a real pain as they never missed an opportunity to remind you that they were sorted and that they really felt (in a condescending way) for anyone who hadn't got a post by the end of September.
Then there were the ones who were so particular about their requirements that they dismissed a number of possible posts for apparently no reason. It was too rural or too urban; it was not evangelical enough or not charismatic enough.
And as more and more people got places, those remaining to find anything became increasingly worried and even desperate.
I was in a strange position in that I was one of the first to be potentially placed, but the vicar of the parish was about to retire and so no final decision could be made until he had left, a new incumbent had been appointed and he had had a chance to meet me and decide if we could work together. So in the end, I was one of the LAST people to be finally sorted.
My advice (based on all I saw and experienced that year) would be as follows:
- Don't pay any attention to what anyone else is doing or saying.
- Be prepared to move outside your comfort zone in terms of church tradition or geographical location (I know from countless conversations with DDOs across the country that unwillingness to be flexible is one of the biggest problems in placing curates.)
- Look VERY CAREFULLY at the prospective training incumbent. If this relationship works, a curacy can be great fun, even for a townie in a rural group or an evangelical in an Aff-Cath parish. If the relationship doesn't work, everything else will be awful as well.
- If you go to a parish that has a history of curacy posts, make sure that the parish doesn't have a predetermined idea of what you will do, based on "that's what the last curate did". You shouldn't be forced into a mould of someone else's making
- Try and find out from existing curates in the diocese what they think of the way the diocese supports curates. Some dioceses are very good - others are worth avoiding like the plague.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
quote:
Don't pay any attention to what anyone else is doing or saying.
Be prepared to move outside your comfort zone in terms of church tradition or geographical location (I know from countless conversations with DDOs across the country that unwillingness to be flexible is one of the biggest problems in placing curates.)
Look VERY CAREFULLY at the prospective training incumbent. If this relationship works, a curacy can be great fun, even for a townie in a rural group or an evangelical in an Aff-Cath parish. If the relationship doesn't work, everything else will be awful as well.
If you go to a parish that has a history of curacy posts, make sure that the parish doesn't have a predetermined idea of what you will do, based on "that's what the last curate did". You shouldn't be forced into a mould of someone else's making
Try and find out from existing curates in the diocese what they think of the way the diocese supports curates. Some dioceses are very good - others are worth avoiding like the plague.
Thanks Oscar, I am willing to be flexible , though at the moment the problem is more not having anything to even consider. I have been told by my diocese that they intend to offer me something and I have chatted to current curates in the diocese who seem to be happy with their support. I suppose all I can do is be patient- something that the long journey here should have taught me.
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Stopping in to wave a hand and the promise of prayers, support, and any useful advice I can muster. This is an anxious time for those awaiting curacies, and a great time to mug up on the meaning of 'adiaphora'. The training incumbent is the all-important feature of the curacy. Where that works, everything else falls into place. While I'd agree with everything people have said about not being too fussy, I'd also FIRMLY emphasize the other side. Don't get so desperate that you agree to a curacy that feels all wrong. My first curacy was with someone who had written in to the Bishop every year asking for a curate, in the same way that a child begs for a pony every Christmas. And then a week after she finally gets one, decides that what she really wanted was a bicycle.
When you find your curacy, a working agreement is a good idea. Make sure it includes your saying the morning office together: that's something that cannot be assumed.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Bagpuss
Magical saggy cloth cat
# 2925
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Posted
Hope you both get sorted Poppy and Jante ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
I am SSM and have been very lucky to get sorted with a great incumbent very locally, not quite as high churchmanship as I would refer but as others have said there has to be compromise somewhere and the relationship is a priority, plus I figure the expereince of something slighty out of my comfort zone will do me good.
I have friends going through what you are at the moment in a diocese who seem to be ordaining half the county next Petertide - so I feel your pain.
The whole process is challenging enough without this bit too! xx
Posts: 473 | Registered: Jun 2002
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St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626
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Posted
I'd echo everything that has been said about the relationship with the incumbent. You don't have to be best friends, but you do have to want the relationship to work, and to do all that you can to make it so...both of you.
Churchmanship is probably less important, IMHO, as you will only be a curate for 3 - 4 years and it can be a good learning experience to be stretched in this area.
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
The other one I would say, as someone who works in a training parish, do take advantage of every opportunity. No, it may not be something you ever do again, and yes, you may hate every moment of it, but, really, it does not make you popular turning things down as 'not in your comfort zone' when you're there to learn and try new things.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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GrahamR
Shipmate
# 11299
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St Everild:
I'd echo everything that has been said about the relationship with the incumbent. You don't have to be best friends, but you do have to want the relationship to work, and to do all that you can to make it so...both of you.
That's very true!
quote:
Originally posted by St Everild:
Churchmanship is probably less important, IMHO, as you will only be a curate for 3 - 4 years and it can be a good learning experience to be stretched in this area.
Less important, yes, but 3-4 years can be a very long time if you're too far out of a form of spirituality that actually feeds you as well...
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
The other one I would say, as someone who works in a training parish, do take advantage of every opportunity. No, it may not be something you ever do again, and yes, you may hate every moment of it, but, really, it does not make you popular turning things down as 'not in your comfort zone' when you're there to learn and try new things.
Quite! Although, what you really need to do as a curate is learn ways of saying 'no' (at least to some stuff!) to both your incumbent and the congregation in ways that don't get people's backs up!
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My blog - theology, archaeology, science
Posts: 184 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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Bagpuss
Magical saggy cloth cat
# 2925
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Posted
My curacy was announced this weekend ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I'm sure the time will fly until next June.
Posts: 473 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Birdseye
I can see my house from here!
# 5280
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Posted
What do you mean by 'announced' Bagpuss... do you mean, in the training parish itself?
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Life is what happens whilst you're busy making other plans.
a birdseye view
Posts: 1615 | From: West Yorkshire | Registered: Dec 2003
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Divine Outlaw
Gin-soaked boy
# 2252
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bagpuss:
My curacy was announced this weekend
I'm sure the time will fly until next June.
Congrats!
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insert amusing sig. here
Posts: 8705 | Registered: Jan 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Aside from any considerations of having to be further away from family and friends, I wouldn't be too worried about being in an exporting diocese. I was "exported" (to a neighbouring diocese) 19 years ago, and it couldn't have worked out better. My incumbent was simply the best priest I've ever worked with, and those three years were the happiest of my ministry. He taught me loads, and gave me the space to learn even more. He was gentle with my mistakes, but made sure I learned from them, too. He took the training element of the curacy seriously, but recognised (in a way my theological college never did) that I already had gifts and skills that I could use - including some that he didn't have.
That, I would humbly suggest, is the kind of incumbent to look for.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
That is encouraging Adeodatus and the neigbouring diocese does have a huge amount of postives. It is just the waiting that is getting to me as it feels as if everyone else has something sorted and I'm left like the kid that no one wanted on the team in school sports. I know this isn't how it is but it plays into some deep seated stuff as I was the kid that noone wanted in school sports!!
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
I loved that cartoon when I saw it in the Church Times. I'd love to come to creamtealand again if wodnerful Derbyshire doesn't want me.
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Poppy:
That is encouraging Adeodatus and the neigbouring diocese does have a huge amount of postives. It is just the waiting that is getting to me as it feels as if everyone else has something sorted and I'm left like the kid that no one wanted on the team in school sports. I know this isn't how it is but it plays into some deep seated stuff as I was the kid that noone wanted in school sports!!
Believe me, you're not that kid. My final year at college, I think one person only got a parish in about February. Only about half of us were fixed up at the beginning of our final year.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
I feel deeply for all those who are waiting without any "posting" in sight.
Which makes me glad of the Methodist system.
You are guaranteed a placement upon completion of training regardless.
It may be many a mile from where you live / trained/ want to be /
but you are accepted / valued/ and "stationed" and after that initial posting all is an open possibility nation-wide.
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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Bagpuss
Magical saggy cloth cat
# 2925
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Birdseye:
What do you mean by 'announced' Bagpuss... do you mean, in the training parish itself?
Yes, was announced in my home parish and the 2 churches in the joint benefice where I am going.
However, I am VERY aware that I am the only person on my training course who has even recieved a suggestion from the Bishop let alone got it all sorted, but it is early. However, that doesn't stop the frustration for my friends.
Posts: 473 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Birdseye
I can see my house from here!
# 5280
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Posted
Righto, thanks... just wondering how that bit takes place, it's all very hush-hush before that innit!
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Life is what happens whilst you're busy making other plans.
a birdseye view
Posts: 1615 | From: West Yorkshire | Registered: Dec 2003
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Bagpuss
Magical saggy cloth cat
# 2925
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Birdseye:
Righto, thanks... just wondering how that bit takes place, it's all very hush-hush before that innit!
LOL yep, basically I got a letter from the Bishop suggesting where they would like me to go. I contacted the vicar, met up, met the churchwardens, toured the churches etc. Both went away for a while to pray and think about it and spoke to each other to say we were both happy to go ahead.
Slightly off tnagent - bemused thought - it's almost like a carefully arranged marriage by the bishop!
Then I got a formal letter of offer from vicar with Bishop's chaplain copied in, I accepted formally - likewise with copying in and then diocese told us when we could announce it and it was done on the same day in my home parish and new training parish. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posts: 473 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Avila
Shipmate
# 15541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bagpuss:
quote:
Originally posted by Birdseye:
Righto, thanks... just wondering how that bit takes place, it's all very hush-hush before that innit!
LOL yep, basically I got a letter from the Bishop suggesting where they would like me to go. I contacted the vicar, met up, met the churchwardens, toured the churches etc. Both went away for a while to pray and think about it and spoke to each other to say we were both happy to go ahead.
Slightly off tnagent - bemused thought - it's almost like a carefully arranged marriage by the bishop!
:
The whole UK Methodist stationing system is based on this arranged marriage approach - though after the first appointment (where you are sent and no veto) you do get to see the vacancies and express an interest/preference.
ETA - the deacons are always sent.
[ 06. September 2011, 07:14: Message edited by: Avila ]
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http://aweebleswonderings.blogspot.com/
Posts: 1305 | From: west midlands | Registered: Mar 2010
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Praying for all those who are waiting on tenterhooks: keep your nerve.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Avila:
quote:
Originally posted by Bagpuss:
quote:
Originally posted by Birdseye:
Righto, thanks... just wondering how that bit takes place, it's all very hush-hush before that innit!
LOL yep, basically I got a letter from the Bishop suggesting where they would like me to go. I contacted the vicar, met up, met the churchwardens, toured the churches etc. Both went away for a while to pray and think about it and spoke to each other to say we were both happy to go ahead.
Slightly off tnagent - bemused thought - it's almost like a carefully arranged marriage by the bishop!
:
The whole UK Methodist stationing system is based on this arranged marriage approach - though after the first appointment (where you are sent and no veto) you do get to see the vacancies and express an interest/preference.
ETA - the deacons are always sent.
The Baptists operate more like a dating agency. Names and details of final year students looking for a church are passed on. The church will then pray over them and contact the student if they want to take it further. (There's more about the whole process in my blog if anyone's interested).
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
When my husband was in this situation, he was one of the very last in his college to be fixed up. First the bishop sent him to look at a well-known training parish in his sponsoring diocese, without checking to see that all concerned were in agreement over OofW - they weren't, so that was the end of that, and he was released.
Then he was invited to go and look at a parish in Wales, and the incumbent was thrilled to have him at the interview, but then the bishop (a different bishop) stepped in and said, "No, they don't need a curate, I need you to go somewhere else" - this, without actually being my husband's bishop, mind! In all good faith we went and looked round, but the house was appalling, and when we pointed this out, the bishop got a bit cross and made some nasty comments about my husband's vocation being related to how the nice the accommodation was. So we departed a long way from that diocese, and so the college principal pulled out his shoebox-full of hopeful training parishes, and said 'Try this one,' so we did.
We went and looked the following Sunday, and went for it. That was mid-March, I believe.
Now it's my turn, but I am in Wales, so I am waiting to be told!
Posts: 1637 | From: North Wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Birdseye
I can see my house from here!
# 5280
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Posted
Argh! That all sounds horrendously scary!
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Life is what happens whilst you're busy making other plans.
a birdseye view
Posts: 1615 | From: West Yorkshire | Registered: Dec 2003
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
Still waiting to hear from the diocese, despite learning yesterday that another training praish in the diocese has been in discussions with a prospective curate for 6 weeks!
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
Oh poor you ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
Six weeks is a long time. What are they dickering over, I wonder.
Keep your cool. It's still pretty early in the game. If this were Lent you'd have some reason to be a bit worried.
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Jante
Shipmate
# 9163
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Posted
Update a parish profile was emailed from the Bishop's office this morning. Now awaiting a call back from the incumbent to arrange a visit.
Thanks for all the encouragement and prayers ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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My blog http://vicarfactorycalling.blogspot.com/
Posts: 535 | From: deepest derbyshire | Registered: Mar 2005
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
Oh how exciting!!!
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
I know in Wales you are Told and that's basically it, but I get the impression that the decision is made entirely without asking what an ordinand thinks. The bishop meets with the archdeacons, and the DDO, but none of these good folk, as far as I'm aware, will actually want to meet with me at any point. I'm a bit worried that I will be just filling a slot to be an extra pair of hands, TBH.
The fact that half the clerics of my deanery, and the next nearest well-known training parish are anti-women is no help either...
Posts: 1637 | From: North Wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
Oh dear - sounds tricky.
I'm not in a good place right now as the parish I've been to see seems to want something else in terms of age profile, experience, churchmanship etc, etc and I think that it will be a no from them.
So back into curate clearing ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Bagpuss
Magical saggy cloth cat
# 2925
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Posted
Poppy - I hope it all sorts itself out. Hopefully it isn't just the diocese and God has a hand in there somewhere too
Posts: 473 | Registered: Jun 2002
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Ferijen
Shipmate
# 4719
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Posted
I know someone looking for a curate, who i dont think has done much yet. I hope he finds someone as good as you lot for next year!
(wanted to give you all hope)
Posts: 3259 | From: UK | Registered: Jul 2003
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
National curate clearing has now started and there is something that looks hopeful. So what are good questions to ask when looking around a possible title post?
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Chelley
Ship's Old Boot
# 11322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Poppy:
National curate clearing has now started and there is something that looks hopeful. So what are good questions to ask when looking around a possible title post?
My training incumbent used to say that most clergy fall into one of two categories - workaholic or bone idle! Perhaps you could ask which category the incumbent would consider themselves to be in!
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"I love old things, they make me feel sad."
"What's good about sad?"
"It's happy for deep people!"
Sally Sparrow to Kathy - Doctor Who
Posts: 2870 | From: Wonderland, UK | Registered: Apr 2006
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St Everild
Shipmate
# 3626
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Posted
I asked mine what he considered his worst failing to be...he was very honest, and I found out in the course of time that he was spot on!
Posts: 1782 | From: Bethnei | Registered: Dec 2002
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I find it very frustrating to read posts on here about people wanting to be curates and finding it difficult to get a placement - because in my diocese the story is that there is a shortage of trainee priests and that is the reason why churches are not being given curates at the moment. I can't help wondering whether it is really all about money? (And if it is, I'd rather they were honest.)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Amos
Shipmate
# 44
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Posted
It is all about money, Chorister. There are plenty of ordinands in 'exporting' dioceses who would be delighted to serve their titles in one of the parishes of Creamtealand.
Re. Questions while visiting parish: The questions you ask should be real questions: things you actually want to know. The most important question is, as I've said earlier, the character and priestliness of the training incumbent. You can't find out about that by direct questioning, but can attend to it in all kinds of other ways, just as you would if you were meeting anyone and deciding whether they would make a good friend/teacher/whatever. Pay attention to the questions YOU are asked, and what is said about the parish, and the general attitude to God, the Church, and people which it displays. I know of someone who was told in such an interview: 'We have two requirements for curates in this benefice. That they wear black shoes and don't get married.' He went elsewhere. Find out if they say the Morning Office together.
PS I would be suspicious of anyone who thought the principal division within the clergy was between the workaholic and the bone idle. It isn't.
[ 10. November 2011, 12:33: Message edited by: Amos ]
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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken
Posts: 7667 | From: Summerisle | Registered: May 2001
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
It is a wierd process as it is both a job interview and discerning where God is in all of this. Thanks for the suggestions.
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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