Thread: Football - Euro 2012 Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.


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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Have at it!

[ 09. June 2012, 22:13: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I hope my Spurs keep all personnel intact. We have a real chance for third, I think.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I don't think I agree. United will be United, Chelsea will improve on last season, City will get it together, and Liverpool's resurgence will continue. I think there will be a fight in north London for 5th, personally.
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
You may well be right. We only held on to third for a day or two last season.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I don't think I agree. United will be United, Chelsea will improve on last season, City will get it together, and Liverpool's resurgence will continue. I think there will be a fight in north London for 5th, personally.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
You have serious doubts about Arsenal don't you?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
So long as [Moys] doesn't go to Chelsea as replacement for this Boy Wonder.

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I think two factors probably count against this happening. Firstly, I don't think Moys has quite the international flavor that Roman is looking for. (For the record, I don't mean this as criticism!) Secondly, I get the impression that the top brass at Chelsea recognize that the club is entering a period of renewal. I hope (against hope) that this means they will give Villas-Boas at least two years. If they don't, then I will be mightily pissed off!
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
At the other end, it will be:

Wolves
Wigan
Norwich
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Down in this neck of the woods, the discussion is about which of our fixtures the Metropolitan Police will move first. 17th of September is a likely early candidate.
 

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Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
And we've got Steel City derbies for the first time in several years. I think both teams will have a shot at the playoffs, but I'm not getting confident. At least we're not on a financial precipice anymore.
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
Not sure about the Shots.

We OUGHT to be a mid-table League 2 team at best, considering the lack of resources and smallish crowds. BUT... Dean Holdsworth looks to have been a good appointment as manager - someone who can get the best out of players. We've got some interesting signings coming up from non-league football who could be really good. We also have three or four youngsters coming through the youth academy who may turn out to be pretty good. One has even played for Norway's U-18 team.

The first few matches are going to be key. If we start well, I can see us putting in a good run towards the play-offs (I think automatic promotion is utterly unrealistic). But if we start badly, this could become a real struggle to avoid dropping back into the Conference. In many ways, I'd be happy with another season like the last, where we floated in mid-table most of the time.
 

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Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
Thankfully Kilmarnock have made a (small) number of signings. There were so many of last year's team who got bought away, or finished their loan deals it was looking like we'd only be good for a 5-a-side tourney
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Barrow for 4th from bottom....again. A little tough to attract north west based players when the sugar daddy at Fleetwood is spending money hand over fist.

Little Chelsea's all over the pyramid.
 

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Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:

Little Chelsea's all over the pyramid.

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But they mostly drop off sooner or later.

Canvey Island are gone, R&D are gone...

Who else is spending big £ these days?
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
Crawley, for a start. They've splashed huge amounts of cash and no-one really knows where it has come from.

Also - Truro City, who are still climbing the non-league ladder very fast. Although I have some regard for what Kevin Heaney is doing there in trying to build a sustainable future, there is no doubt that without his money the club will shatter instantly.
 

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Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
"New football season already"?
With this thread title I thought you were going to discuss the football world cup commencing on Sunday.
Btw: England are also in it and will play Mexiko coming Monday at 5 p.m.
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
Ah yes - you're referring to the women's world cup.

The event that the BBC get worked up about every four years (because they don't get to screen much footie these days) and then as soon as England get knocked out, everyone forgets about women's football again. It's a disgrace.

(by that, I mean the way that the Brits don't take it seriously - not the actual football itself)
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
CBC is covering it, so its big news from them. Keep blathering on about how there will be 70000 people for the opening match between Germany and Canada.

Nobody else is talking about it.

When its in this country in 4 years, it will be big news. Of course the stupid sods in this town didn't want any part of it as it might interfere with the Pan Am games. So, Toronto media will ignore it.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
And anyway, over here we're right in the middle of Football (i.e., Major League Soccer) season (armored rugby may not even happen this year, if the millionaires and the billionaires can't work something out).

Our Portland Timbers had a really great start for an expansion team, but have developed an unpleasant habit of conceding goals in stoppage time (which might be OK if they weren't also conceding them in the first 5 minutes). They've been playing really well, apart from the only statistic that actually counts...
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
We have women's football coverage here also: may watch a bit...
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Charlie Adam finally to Liverpool...midfield looking a lot better.
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
I think that the top 5 or 6 in the Premiership will be interesting this season.

Man Utd are slowly rebuilding and I think that they may find that harder than they anticipate

Chelsea - well who knows what they will be like! Untested manager and ageing squad. Unlikely to subside completely but may be a roller-coaster of a season

Man City - probably the best prospects of all the contenders. Potentially going to be a more settled team. It could be their season - much as it disgusts me to say it.

Arsenal - got a feeling this will be the end of Wenger. Possibly a poor start with him walking by Christmas

Spurs - if they lose Modric to Man U I think that they will start to slip. Unlikely to improve on last season

Liverpool - who knows! With the changes already in place and King Kenny enthroned, they may make a startling leap forward. But I have a sneaking suspicion that once the hype has subsided, it will be clear that they are still 2 or 3 years away from a serious challenge for the top. But I'd put money on them getting into the Champions League.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
I think that the top 5 or 6 in the Premiership will be interesting this season.

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That'll be a first then

Strong suspicition that once again the excitement will be at the bottom of the Premiership and the top of the league below. That's where football is at its most competitive.

But, playing along for the crack, my strong suspicion is that the top of the Premiership will be once again fall to ManU with Chelsea and Arsenal squabbling for second place (Chelsea's aging players might have finally got too old) and ManC, Spurs, Liverpool (and perhaps also Newcastle if I trust my heart more than my head) fighting for fourth place but nowhere near good enough to get to third, never mind first.

Maybe it will be better than that, but I doubt it. Surprises are always more fun than predictability. And everyone loves the underdog. It would be great fun if neither ManU nor Chelsea were in the top four. But its unlikely to happen.


[No idea how that partial duplicate post happened - Opera sometimes seems to have a mind of its own - or at any rate some very odd function key assignments - maybe someone could delete it?]

[ 07. July 2011, 13:36: Message edited by: ken ]
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
[No idea how that partial duplicate post happened - Opera sometimes seems to have a mind of its own - or at any rate some very odd function key assignments - maybe someone could delete it?]

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Sure, no worries.

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
But, playing along for the crack, my strong suspicion is that the top of the Premiership will be once again fall to ManU with Chelsea and Arsenal squabbling for second place (Chelsea's aging players might have finally got too old)...

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
...and ManC, Spurs, Liverpool (and perhaps also Newcastle if I trust my heart more than my head) fighting for fourth place but nowhere near good enough to get to third, never mind first.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Arsenal - got a feeling this will be the end of Wenger. Possibly a poor start with him walking by Christmas.

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People have said that sort of thing every season for the last four or five years, and every year Arsenal have over-achieved relative to the amount they spend. Last summer people were saying that they didn't have a hope of competing, and the fact they did for a large part of the season was a surprise. Their issue is that they often have a good start, but can't keep it going to the end.

As an Ipswich fan at least I can hope to see a few drummings dished out to the budgies this season.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
So with all the changes, who's for Division 2 (I still have problems calling it the Championship)?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Norwich and Swansea have to be hot favorites, don't they? I'm hoping Wigan will join them.

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Having seen them all of them play I am convinced that Swansea really did deserve promotion over the other Championship playoff contenders last year. If they can stay as good as they were at the end of last season they ought to be safer than Norwich. QPR were definitely flagging at the end of the season but they were so far ahead they could afford to. I suspect their bigger budget will keep them in the Premiership. It might be another bad year for teams begining with "W".

Going the other way, Birmingham, West Ham, and Leicester (cos of the Sven effect?) have to be the favourites for going up into the Premier. After them the bookies tend to rate Forest, Reading, Middlesborough & Cardiff. Reading & Forest were probably the best of the teams that didn't get promoted last year, and 'Boro seem to be spending money. And I suspect that Blackpool will be trying hard and cannot be written off. Of the relegatees West Ham & Birmingham both have problems that might keep them down.

Last year all three of the teams promoted into the division did well - two of them with pretty much the same squads they got promoted with - and I'd guess that of the teams promoted into the division this year Brighton and Southampton will both do well.

Millwall & Leeds both outside contenders, if they can keep up their long habits of being bloody hard teams to beat, even if they don't always actually score many goals. The two teams have tracked each other for about ten years now, moving up and down in paralel, often being very near each other in the table. Leeds fans hate it cos they think they are a Big Team and Millwall are trashy scum and they really don't like being just the same as us year after year. Of course that might ben they both go down together. But then last year's Championship results (except for the dominance of QPR) were very unlike most people's predictions, so who knows?

As for demotion down to the old third division, Derby and Coventry are unfvaoured. Burnley and Hull both did well last year but its hard to feel confident for them. But the real answer has to be: "Palace? Palace? Who the..."

Declaration of interest - I am from Brighton, many of my Dad's family were Newcastle supporters (or even players), and I have a Millwall season ticket in my wallet right now So I am congenitally unable to wish success for Palace, Leeds, or West Ham.
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Norwich and Swansea have to be hot favorites, don't they? I'm hoping Wigan will join them.

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Umm...I was talking about how the division below the EPL was going to go actually but...anyhoo.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Okay, my apologies. I thought "who's for Division 2" meant who is going to get relegated. But with my Bristolian blinkers on, I think I'll be very upset if Cardiff win promotion. Two Welsh teams in the Prem would be most distressing.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Can I just say, it always has to be the fucking French doesn't it?!
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I don't know if anyone else has been following it, but the semi finals of the women's world cup were today. The USA knocked out France, and Japan beat Sweden. The final is on Sunday.
 

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Posted by basso (# 4228) on :
 
I've been following. The US-Brazil quarterfinal was a thriller -- US equalized in the 122nd minute to take it to penalties, and won.

I thought France was going to win today. They were completely dominant in midfield, but a couple of substitutions made things look better, and we ended up with a 3-1 win that was much narrower than the scoreline suggests. I didn't see the other game. I will be watching on Sunday.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
I love women's football. There's so much less of the bullshit that contaminates the men's game (egregious fouls, diving, etc.) They just play. And most of the time their passing is more accurate. I've never seen anything in men's soccer as perfect as Megan Rapinoe's cross to Abby Wambach in the Brazil game.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
What a weekend for P.K.s.

I didn’t actually watch any of the Women’s World Cup. As an American, I am sad that we lost, but it probably is better for the Women’s game in the world when the USA doesn’t win. This was supposed to be the first wide-open Women’s World Cup. If the game is going to continue to grow, you can’t have the same few teams winning all the time.

In the Copa America quarter finals, I was thrilled to see my Uruguay beat Argentina in P.K.s. Probably the cleanest shoot out of the weekend, with only one shot not going in, by virtue of a save. We assumed that my 7 month old nephew was rooting for Argentina, based on the way he cried at the end. It certainly had nothing to do with his dad and uncle jumping around yelling “Goooal!” throughout the shootout. Good thing Mom wasn't there. I would say that Uruguay have to be the favorites going forward. I would even have given them a fair shot to beat Brazil had you asked me on Saturday night. But then...

Then there was the horror that was Brazil in the shootout against Paraguay. Four shots, no goal, only one save needed. There was obviously something wrong with the turf, but the Paraguayans figured out a way to get the ball under control. I have never seen anything quite like that.
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
Has the Copa America been available in the UK?

I've not seen any adverts on Sky for it. Has ESPN been showing it?

Cause I would have loved to have seen some of the games. They have been very poorly reported in the UK.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
I have been watching on Univision, which I can get on my rabbit ear equipped set. I think they may have an online stream going as well, which you may be able to pick up in the UK. See if you can find it for the pre-game for the final on Sunday. Their pre-game show for international finals typically includes commentary from a fake party on the Univision set, complete with Cumbia band and dancing girls in tight fitting shirts from each team and cut-off shorts gyrating behind the announcer. You aren’t in the Anglo-Saxon world any more. And the game announcers are great. While “GOOOAAALLL!” has gotten plenty of coverage, my favorite is they way they yell “Seeeee laaaa perdiooooooo!” when someone misses a wide-open shot.
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Here is the link for Univision live games if you feel like getting up in the middle of the night. Now you see what football fans in the States have to put up with.
 

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Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
So with all the changes, who's for Division 2 (I still have problems calling it the Championship)?

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quote:

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Just look at what happened to Walcott when he moved to Arsenal at such a young age. He was touted as a great hope for English football, wasn't he? Mind you, perhaps Sven should also take a bit of the blame, what with picking Walcott for the 2006 World Cup squad before the poor lad had even made his Premier League debut (if memory serves).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

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Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Just look at what happened to Walcott when he moved to Arsenal at such a young age. He was touted as a great hope for English football, wasn't he? Mind you, perhaps Sven should also take a bit of the blame, what with picking Walcott for the 2006 World Cup squad before the poor lad had even made his Premier League debut (if memory serves).

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I'm not sure Sven should have too much of the overall blame there. Picking someone and parking them on the bench for a three week tournament is different from doing it for three seasons. Okay, so I'm using the numbers hyperbolically there, but Walcott wasn't going to be hurt by and early introduction to the England setup. But his career was significantly retarded by not getting many games for the Gunners.

And that's before you account for the fact that he's had Wenger as a coach...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
So the Portland Timbers almost tied West Bromwich in a friendly.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Cod:
WE - ARE - QPR - WE ARE QPR!

Unless Abel Taarabt leaves, in which case we're screwed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
And I'm reading this great book about tactics.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:

quote:

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Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
So the Portland Timbers almost tied West Bromwich in a friendly.

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“Almost tied.” That’s a new way of saying it.

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When an MLS team comes close to a Premier League team (actually dominating them for the first half, and losing only the final minutes of stoppage time) that's pretty good--at least gives grounds for optimism in the long run. And Seattle (our hated rivals) got squashed by Man U 4-0, which makes it even better.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
To be fair, West Brom are only barely a Premiership team.
 

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Posted by Timothy the Obscure (# 292) on :
 
And Portland's just barely an MLS team (as they proved against Toronto the other day), so it balances out.
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
To be fair, West Brom are only barely a Premiership team.

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They are better than that: The Baggies finished eleventh last season, which was their first on promotion from the Championship. They were (and I suspect will remain) in the 'never gonna set the world alight' bunch with Fulham, Aston Villa, Sunderland, Newcastle, Stoke and Bolton. Above them were the sides competing for European places while below them were the relegation scrappers.
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Liverpool still a work in progress. Charlie Adam did well but I'm not sold on any of their midfielders being a decent defensive presence. Sunderland is a good crew and will be good to watch..can see them at 6th.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Went to Millwall yesterday. What's happened to Forest? We were lucky to hold them to a draw them back in February, they were clearly a better team. But yesterday, they were outclassed. A good game for Milwall fans

Then saw the Newcastle/Arsenal match on telly in the pub. Boring apart from the ruck. A pity the ref only had one red card on him. Somewhere between five and eight players probably deserved it.

And only last week Capello explained why Barton never got picked for England:

quote:

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He is a good player but he is a dangerous player because sometimes you could end up playing 10 v 11. He might get sent off...

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Meanwhile, back in the division below, as usual the table looks surreal after two matches. Brighton and Southampton at the top, followed by Derby and Millwall. Pity about Leeds
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:


And only last week Capello explained why Barton never got picked for England:

quote:

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He is a good player but he is a dangerous player because sometimes you could end up playing 10 v 11. He might get sent off...

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quote:

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[Meanwhile, back in the division below, as usual the table looks surreal after two matches. Brighton and Southampton at the top, followed by Derby and Millwall. Pity about Leeds

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
Meanwhile, back in the division below, as usual the table looks surreal after two matches. Brighton and Southampton at the top, followed by Derby and Millwall. Pity about Leeds

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
Down in this neck of the woods, the discussion is about which of our fixtures the Metropolitan Police will move first. 17th of September is a likely early candidate.

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Well, they didn't. Tomorrow is still on - though moved to 12:30 and away supporters are expected.

The police have stopped them selling booze in the ground though (idiotic idea if you ask me) and also intend to close a couple of local roads. They say the District Line is closed for engineering works. Do we believe them or is that convenient? I suppose just convenient as long as the Jubilee line remains open.


So tomorrow is probably not a good day for tourists to suddenly decide to visit some of the dingier parts of south-east London.


As for the match? Well, no-one much cares except us and we shall see.
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
Unbelievable!

Aldershot in the 4th round of the League Cup for the first time EVER.

Bring on Man Utd or Man City - we'll give you a battle!
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I just got the football channel here: looking forward to seeing some good matches. Dunno about my side - seems they haven't really got things sorted out yet.
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by ken:

As for the match? Well, no-one much cares except us and we shall see.

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And we saw a nil-nil draw between Millwall and West Ham on a beautiful warm sunny breezy afternoon. The game was more exciting than that sounds - much more exciting. There was no reported fan trouble (though there were a couple of West Ham players who could do with someone having a quiet word with them, and yes Mr Tomkins I include you). And we got safely back to the local pub just before the heavens opened and rain came down in buckets.

So all in all a good day
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Dunno about my side - seems they haven't really got things sorted out yet.

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Well they comprehensively whupped Liverpool's collective arse on Sunday. Scot Parker seems to be a hell of a signing for them, and apparently Modric has got his head back in the right place. (And yes, it does help when the other side have two men sent off.)
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I now get the "soccer" channel here, but have only seen highlights of THFC and not a whole Spurs match. Thank God that after beating plucky little WIgan, we are now back in the top six after starting slower than dirt!
 

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Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Stoke - where men are men and everybody else is nervous.

What is it with the Brittania Stadium? 10 years ago nobody was talking about Stoke as a fortress.
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
10 years ago they didn't have the kind of money to invest in players that they do now.

But Liverpool's loss and the Scum's draw makes Chelsea's early season result look not so bad.

And what about Nando today? Scores one, sets one up, then jumps in two-footed, studs-up and gets set off. Muppet!
 

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Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 
Going down a few divisions, would just like to point out that under one of the few black managers in the football league Charlton are currently unbeaten and 3 points clear at the top.

Hopefully, the start of an outstanding campaign. It has actually made me a little more interested in football again as I was becoming slightly switched off. Am looking forward to taking my 5 1/2 year old to Hartlepool / Charlton in a few weeks!

TOm
 

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Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Why does the BBC persist in allowing John Motson near the microphone? He's providing some sort of commentary at Carrow Road for the Norwich v Sunderland match and there's a player named 'Oolian' playing midfield for Norwich. Who? Yes, Hoolahan. How Motty mangles that into 'Oolian' is a mystery to me!

btw, Norwich have just won, 2-1 with a nervous ending. Eldest son has something to be happy about.
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Unbelievable!

Aldershot in the 4th round of the League Cup for the first time EVER.

Bring on Man Utd or Man City - we'll give you a battle!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
And yes, it does help when the other side have two men sent off.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Why does the BBC persist in allowing John Motson near the microphone? He's providing some sort of commentary at Carrow Road for the Norwich v Sunderland match and there's a player named 'Oolian' playing midfield for Norwich. Who? Yes, Hoolahan. How Motty mangles that into 'Oolian' is a mystery to me!

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
That's pathetic!

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Funnily enough the piece in question was Tchaikovsky's Symphonie pathétique, which they pronounced with an English "th".
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I can hardly believe we are discussing the fine points of musical pronunciation here on the football thread. My Spurs should win easily over near-relegation bottom half of the league Arsenal!
 

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Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So, how about United?
 

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Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 
Yes, you have to feel a bit of sympathy for Sir Alex don't you?

Well maybe not. 6-1. At home. One six. It feels nice writing that whichever way I look at it.
 

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Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
And their next game? Against Aldershot, who have just hit 5.

Surely not a hint of an upset?!

We can but dream....
 

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Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, how about United?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, how about United?

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Newcastle United did very well this weekend I thought. Is there someone else you had in mind?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
And some horrible, horrible refereeing decisions.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Chelsea players are sent off thanks to the kind of acting they have done themselves

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Liberty and I were having an interesting discussion yesterday, which I thought I would open up here and see what you guys think.

Recently, various high-profile owners of Premiership clubs (most openly, people at the Fenway Sports Group) have talked about ending promotion to and relegation from the Premiership. Obviously, this idea is thoroughly un-British and should never, ever happen. But that said, let's consider the hypothetical: if it were to happen, how would you choose the twenty clubs that form the league?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
...But that said, let's consider the hypothetical: if it were to happen, how would you choose the twenty clubs that form the league?

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quote:

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Originally posted by ken:
Down in this neck of the woods, the discussion is about which of our fixtures the Metropolitan Police will move first. 17th of September is a likely early candidate.

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Flicking through I initially read this as 'which fixture will the Metropolitan Police move first' Then I realised that no one else would be thinking about the glories of the Isthmian Premier League

The glories of mid table obscurity in the non league mean the only thing we (Carshalton Athletic since you ask) still have any propect of winning is the Surrey Senior Cup. The filth beat us 5-0 in the league and not a single one of their players is actually a copper.
 

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Posted by wanderingstar (# 10444) on :
 
Gary Speed RIP
 

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Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 
Well the FA Cup draw has now happened. I did like it when Man City were drawn against Man U! Charlton have an away match at Fulham - should be a good game and we could get an upset although I would have prefered to be at home (Although in Charltons case as we have a Premiership stadium it wouldn't be as much an advantage)

I have now got to my first match of the season, not a Charlton game but York City - who beat Kettering 7-0! (Kettering being another team on the brink of bankruptcy) Charlton though still going strong in league one, looks like we should be in the Championship next year.

Roll on 3rd round weekend.
 

---

Posted by wanderingstar (# 10444) on :
 
And that FA Cup draw takes on extra flavour after last nights (heartbreaking ) ECL exits.

As a former resident of Floyd Rd, I'm very happy to see CAFC flying. The fans and the stadium deserve bigger, better times.

Is Chris Powell the real deal? Here's hoping.
 

---

Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by wanderingstar:

Is Chris Powell the real deal? Here's hoping.

---

Well he's doing a good job at the moment. As long as we keep him, even if things start to go wrong this year, we need to keep with him. He changed the squad totally this year - 19 new players came in the summer, which has helped. There was a negative atmosphere over the past few years, almost since Curbishley left. Hopefully now we have turned the corner and can do something about it!

Tom
 

---

Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on :
 
Time to buy a new Sat Nav. Manchester is no longer in Europe.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Well they are - in the Europa league. Mancini's already said he's going to take it seriously, but can anyone realistically see Fergie putting out the Scum's first choice team for it?
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Oh, and Spurs won again yesterday, defeating West Brom, though I missed it. Pity there were so many injuries. Still, we're solidly in third place and looking forward to the next match against Cheltenham.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Did anyone else see Tim Howard's goal yesterday? I hate to think what Owen Coyle must have been saying on the touchline.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Did anyone else see Tim Howard's goal yesterday? I hate to think what Owen Coyle must have been saying on the touchline.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Did anyone else see Tim Howard's goal yesterday?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
I love how stoic he remains. I would have been jumping up and down and doing the celebration dance I had been dreaming up all those years.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
it was on a news article earlier today - Friedel got a similar one against a former England keeper whose name I can't remember.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wet Kipper:
it was on a news article earlier today - Friedel got a similar one against a former England keeper whose name I can't remember.

---

I heard it a few months ago in a quiz and Howards goal reminded me of it. And yes, you have them all I think.

---

Back when footballs were muddy sodden lumps and not the kids toys that weigh about six ounces I just remember Pat Jennings scoring from his own area against the Mancs.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
United luck, eh?


 

---

Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 
Well, Henry doesn't seem to have lost much! There was never going to be anyone else going to score the winning goal was there!

A good weekend of FA Cup football. The Manchester derby was good, even with the Ref trying to ruin it. A couple of good upsets (even though I am hoping Weds will tire themselves out in the cup so we can beat them in the league) Scholes and Henry coming back - what the Manchester Utd midfield must be thinking...

And Charlton lost 4-0. Hey Ho!

Tom
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Spurs should have won the last match: we'd have been second in the rankings. Now if we can only beat City next weekend, we shall be.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Did you see the game, Sir Kevin? I thought Wolves deserved their point.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:


And Charlton lost 4-0. Hey Ho!

---

I've only ever seen Charlton play twice in the flesh as it were. And they let in four goals both times
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Did you see the game, Sir Kevin? I thought Wolves deserved their point.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:


And Charlton lost 4-0. Hey Ho!

---

I've only ever seen Charlton play twice in the flesh as it were. And they let in four goals both times

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stejjie:
Wish you'd have come and seen them against us (Sheffield Wednesday) on Saturday - we might have got a better result then...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Stejjie:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:


And Charlton lost 4-0. Hey Ho!

---

I've only ever seen Charlton play twice in the flesh as it were. And they let in four goals both times

---

Wish you'd have come and seen them against us (Sheffield Wednesday) on Saturday - we might have got a better result then...

---

After Saturdays win, and then hoping we beat Sheffied Utd on Sat (playing at home) I am getting more and more relaxed about this season. We seem to be playing well, winning the matches that matter and scoring goals. Chrissy Powell for England?
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Liverpool.....
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Spurs match should have been a draw or a win for Spurs: Ballotelli of City deserved a red card which he didn't get. He has form with a red card last year. It will take us longer to become number one now...

 

---

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :
 
I have supported Charlton since 1947 when I was a kid in Zimbabwe and listened to them win the FA Cup. They had a South African, John Hewi playing for them.

They have gone down the plughole since but presently top League 1.
 

---

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :
 
Meant to add that I am not enamoured with present styles of play and no longer bother to watch Premiership stuff.

Its all about knocking the ball square ( or backwards) interminably allowing the opposition to get 11 men behind the ball. 9 times out of 10 the eventual final pass into a crowded penalty area is blocked and the whole painful procedure starts again. Square passes, back passes, an eventual foray into a crowded penalty area with no result. BORING BORING BORING

[ 22. January 2012, 19:34: Message edited by: shamwari ]
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Well, that violent, bigoted rat bastard from Italy finally got sent off, but whither us? Will they subtract the goal the dumb shit scored and take two points off City? Will Spurs become 2nd in the standings some time soon? When will it happen? We should have won that match, but then we do have a 40-year-old keeper from the US. I hope he's not past it?
 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Liverpool.....

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Well, that violent, bigoted rat bastard from Italy finally got sent off, but whither us? Will they subtract the goal the dumb shit scored and take two points off City? Will Spurs become 2nd in the standings some time soon? When will it happen? We should have won that match, but then we do have a 40-year-old keeper from the US. I hope he's not past it?

---

I'll have you know that Mario Balotelli is being victimised! According to his agent that is.

Aww. Poor lamb.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
We both read the same story in the Guardian apparently. The agent is a dumb shit too!
 

---

Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
well, let's hope the Ayr and Kilmarnock supporters in tomorrow's semi final can show the Old Firm how a local derby should be played/supported.
As a Killie fan I'm sad not to be able to go, but I'm expecting a win, and therefore planning to attend the final.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Good news: A win for Everton, over Man City no less. Always good to beat the dirty b******s, who are earning a reputation as the Leeds United of the 21st century.

Bad news: it gives Man Utd a better chance of winning the Premiership.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Bad news: it gives Man Utd a better chance of winning the Premiership.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
I have a ticket for Millwall away at West Ham on Saturday. Deeply unsure about this. But we will see.

---

Why "deeply unsure"? Fear of crowd trouble, or of the result?

I went and can report no problems off the pitch and precious little joy on it.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I am really bloody annoyed that the score of the Spurs/City game was not revised downwards to a draw when Balotelli was red-carded. Why should someone who had no business being in the match be allowed to score a bogus goal!? Also, why the hell don't those idiot Fox Soccer Channel executives, who are apparently die-hard Manchester sides supporters, televise all of the Spurs Matches? I can only pray that Chelsea, the posh side, wins their next match against City...
 

---

Posted by Wet Kipper (# 1654) on :
 
so, how much of his officially-not-a-bonus-bonus has happy Harry slipped fabby Fabio's way to move over ?
 

---

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
Anyone want to start a "Wenger for England" campaign?

He's been in England long enough to qualify as "honorary Brit"; he has a proven track record of developing young players and getting them to play in a way that will work against foreign teams; AND he has palpably reached the end of his time at Arsenal.

What can 'Arry offer? Blood sweat and tears. My guess is that if 'Arry gets the job, we'll see England yet again flattering to deceive. There'll be lots of energy, a few decent results against minnows and then as soon as England come up against the likes of Germany, Holland or Spain, their lack of technical ability and tactical nous will be horribly exposed.

Bring in Wenger to oversee the whole development of the England team from the youngsters up to the first team. We'd have a slight chance of becoming a serious contender for the semi-finals of a competition - which is all you can ever really ask of an England manager. And, as Zambia have just shown in the African Cup of Nations, once a team gets to the semi-finals, ANYTHING is possible. England's problems have been that (excepting Ramsey and Robson), no manger has ever looked capable of getting us as far as the semi-finals.

(Yes - I am aware that England got to the semi-finals in Euro 96 under Venables. But on that occasion, England were playing at home and also incredibly fortunate to get past Spain in the Qtr finals. England never looked like worthy semi-finalists under Venables. In many ways, I see 'Arry as being Venables Mk II)
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
There's no chance of Arsene Wenger becoming an 'Honorary Englishman'. We might do that for Germans, Americans and even Irishmen who try to blow us up, but not Frenchmen.

I really can't understand the 'It must be an Englishman' outcry. It's not as if Englishmen have done especially well. Graham Taylor, Glenn Hoddle and Steve MacLaren we all woeful and while Erickson and Capello were flawed they were excellent managers: I suppose they stood up to the press and the fourth estate didn't like it.

Moreover where are the Englishmen? 'Arry is 64 and isn't in the best of health. There are more Premiership managers from Glasgow than from the whole of England and it's fair to say that the Glaswegians are doing rather better.

Given the limited resources any England manager will have (ie, English players only) I'd suggest, rather regrettably, that my club's manager, David Moyes would do well. He's managed well on limited cash, he could do as well on limited availability.
 

---

Posted by Oscar the Grouch (# 1916) on :
 
I, too, find the "It Must be a Brit" campaign baffling. Get the best manager possible, regardless of their nationality.

If you're going to stick with Brits only, then my choice would be Martin O'Neill - who has proved time and again his ability to get the best out of average players. David Moyes would also fit that bill. If you restrict your self just to ENGLISH managers - well..... Ummm...... Paul Ince? Alan Shearer? Stuart Pearce? It wouldn't be long before England would be in the same seeding pool as Azerbaijan and Moldova.

'Arry's abilities have always been in the field of wheeling and dealing - bringing in players who will do a job and moving on players who can't. As England manager, you don't have that luxury! You have to deal with the players available and that is always a pretty limited pool (unless, like Graham Taylor, you choose to consider absolute donkeys - then you have whole lot more possibilities to consider but at the same time you eliminate any faint hopes of success).
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Moreover where are the Englishmen? 'Arry is 64 and isn't in the best of health. There are more Premiership managers from Glasgow than from the whole of England and it's fair to say that the Glaswegians are doing rather better.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Did you go, ken?

---

Of course! A couple of hours basically standing on an outside staircase in freezing cold wind getting shouted at and shouting back, with no booze or fags (well, not officially anyway - wherever the Millwall go there is some corner of a foreign field that is for a short while the Cold Blow Lane End), then kettled by the Met for a bit in the street outside, then slowly marched to the Tube through the back alleys of a council estate with police on both sides of us (dogs! horses! helicopters!), being rather embarrassed at a certain amount of racist chanting by a minority of fellow supporters, then briefly running the gauntlet of someone (couldn't see who) throwing oranges and tomatoes at someone else (couldn't see who) over the heads of ourselvbes and the double line of police keeping Us from Them (or was it Them from Us?) and put on a specially comandeered train with two cops in each doorway and the driver under instructions not to open the doors till we got back to central London - which kind of confused and irritated the passengers waiting at West Ham and Mile End and Poplar and so on, then all off at Tower Hill which really did confuse the tourists taking pictures. Sudden arrival of maybe a thousand Millwall fans, and about ten police vants witl blues and twos.

There was one great goal. And two crappy ones

And the really, really, odd experience of being the bad guys. Police waiting at the station, for us. Police dogs barking in the street, at us. Mothers taking their children into the house and locking their doors because of us (quite literally). Shopkeepers shutting their doors and drawing down the blinds as we pass. That's a strange feeling.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Neil Warnock is currently unemployed. Or, better yet, take Steve McClaren's new Dutch accent and you have the best of both the gritty English and nuanced European worlds*.

---

quote:

---

But more seriously, I think 'Arry would be mad to leave Spurs now.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
(Yes - I am aware that England got to the semi-finals in Euro 96 under Venables. But on that occasion, England were playing at home and also incredibly fortunate to get past Spain in the Qtr finals.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
I'm not sure you can say that winning a quarter final on penalties counts as incredibly fortunate while writing off losing a number of quarter finals on penalties as being rubbish. In all cases we'd achieved a draw against strong opposition.

Either we were unlucky not to reach the semis in all those other tournaments, or we were worthy semi finalists in 96. You can't honestly claim that both are false.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
What can 'Arry offer? Blood sweat and tears. My guess is that if 'Arry gets the job, we'll see England yet again flattering to deceive. There'll be lots of energy, a few decent results against minnows and then as soon as England come up against the likes of Germany, Holland or Spain, their lack of technical ability and tactical nous will be horribly exposed.

---

Too right, Oscar the Grouch. Wenger is an interesting idea but does he have the tactical nous that England would need to beat the best teams? I'm not sure. For this reason, my pick would be Rafa Benitez. The man who won the Champions League with Igor Biscan and Djimi Traore (yeah, and a fair bit of luck too!). I'd be stunned if Benitez actually got the job but I think he could do well.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
Luck my arse. We beat some quality teams that season, and scored more goals against Milan in six minutes that the mancs would manage in two games that season.

Biscan didn't play in the final. Traore did a goalline clearance in the final. It should be remembered, that many good teams have had shite players in them (in the mancs' case, have won leagues with them).

In any case, Rafa would be good for that lot, but he's too good a gentleman for them. In any case, due to the low quality of football journalism in GB, he's not got a good reputation.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Harry needs to stay at Spurs: if he pulls off winning the premiership, he should win a knighthood for services to sport! I missed the last twenty minutes of the match today, but 70 minutes in it was already five-nil...

 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Suarez
 

---

Posted by Jigsaw (# 11433) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Did you go, ken?

---

Of course! A couple of hours basically standing on an outside staircase in freezing cold wind getting shouted at and shouting back, with no booze or fags (well, not officially anyway - wherever the Millwall go there is some corner of a foreign field that is for a short while the Cold Blow Lane End), then kettled by the Met for a bit in the street outside, then slowly marched to the Tube through the back alleys of a council estate with police on both sides of us (dogs! horses! helicopters!), being rather embarrassed at a certain amount of racist chanting by a minority of fellow supporters, then briefly running the gauntlet of someone (couldn't see who) throwing oranges and tomatoes at someone else (couldn't see who) over the heads of ourselvbes and the double line of police keeping Us from Them (or was it Them from Us?) and put on a specially comandeered train with two cops in each doorway and the driver under instructions not to open the doors till we got back to central London - which kind of confused and irritated the passengers waiting at West Ham and Mile End and Poplar and so on, then all off at Tower Hill which really did confuse the tourists taking pictures. Sudden arrival of maybe a thousand Millwall fans, and about ten police vants witl blues and twos.

There was one great goal. And two crappy ones

And the really, really, odd experience of being the bad guys. Police waiting at the station, for us. Police dogs barking in the street, at us. Mothers taking their children into the house and locking their doors because of us (quite literally). Shopkeepers shutting their doors and drawing down the blinds as we pass. That's a strange feeling.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Suarez

---

My thoughts exactly.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
He's now apologised and so has Dalglish. The bigger the Dalglish boss also indicated Suarez needs to start acting like the team he plays for. Man U accepts apologies.

Sanity prevails, eventually.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Sanity prevails, eventually.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jigsaw:

But why moan about the lack of booze and fags or the cold weather? We both support Championship sides with all the attendant discomforts that implies.
You think it was cold at Upton Park for a lunchtime kick-off? You've never been to Ipswich, Reading or Sheffield United as an away supporter at an evening game, then?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Watched it on telly in the pub. Not many there, and not many African. At the start of the match "Oh, what's this, do we really want to watch, who are Zambia anyway?" At the end, practically cheering.

We're going to see more of Mweene I think. I imagine his agent has been on the phone a lot already. And when he stepped up to take his own penalty you could see it coming. He deserved that. Especially after his previous save was disallowed.

---

quote:

---

ken: Also I hadn't realised that this was at the same place a previous Zambian World Cup squad were killed in a plane crash in 1994. So hugely emotional for them I guess.

---

Yes, definitely.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
...day before yesterday my Spurs had a nil-nil draw against bloody Stevenage! That's ninety minutes wasted that I'll never get back.

Oh well, it's not like we missed out on two points like we did when that bigoted rat bastard Italian from Manchester kicked our man in the head after he likely had someone bribe the ref to look the other way and not give him a red card on the spot several matches ago!

Still and

Excuse my French, but why is this mother-fucker still playing?
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
And they wonder why people in Liverpool and Manchester keep chanting about Hillsborough and Munich at each other.

The guys a flake but your idea that a ref was bribed is down there with the Liverpool people who did Youtube videos supposedly proving Evra didn't go to shake Suarez's hand.


BTW, I'm pretty sure Stevenage is happy to be playing your lot again. There was a time when the average football fan got that aspect of the FA cup.

Frankly, if that's the attitude of the average Spurs fan about the FA Cup, why don't you holler for your cheeky chappy dog owning manager to play your youngsters and leave the cup to people that give a darn still.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Point taken: would that Van der Vaart was well and we had played better. Gareth Bale was slacking off. I do take the FA cup seriously in actuality!
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
Let's get this straight. Hundreds of Liverpool fans sing about Munich. The whole Stretford End sing about Hillsborough. There is no comparison.

What the hell has happened to Chelsea? They, like Arsenal remind me of us in the early 90s.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
What the hell has happened to Chelsea?

---

Our chickens have come home to roost. I think the problems are long-term and systemic in the club: questionable transfer policy, patchy youth development, the board's habit of firing managers, and a few senior players who think they own the place. The reason it's all bubbled to the surface now is that AVB has lost the dressing room because of his stubborn insistence on playing a system for which we don't have the right personnel and the inevitable clash of egos as he tries to move the old guard on.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
DISASTER STRUCK IN THE LONDON DERBY TODAY. FILM AT ELEVEN...

 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
To a Mr. Friedl of White Hart Lane:

You bumbling incompetent old fart, you dumb-shit American! You have nearly put the Premiereship out of reach and let my colleague's idiot side into the fray. Why the hell didn't you tell your boss to bring in a young, competent, international sub for the second half? You are as stupid and noxious as the day is long! Why don't you just move to Leisure World? You'd blend in perfectly with the old dears.

I'd like to send this as an open letter to Mr. Pleat of the Guardian football pages, but I shan't.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I just watched the highlights, and I'm not sure that it was Freidel's fault. Perhaps he should have saved the fifth goal, but the game was already lost by then so it wouldn't have made a difference. The first two goals were unstoppable, Rosicki's should have been covered by the defender, and Theo's first was an uncharacteristically good strike. I'd look at Harry's tactics (Parker and Modric were overrun in midfield) and the back four's organization if you need a scapegoat.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Upon further reflection, I do agree: Modric did screw up big time before and after he got the yellow card. Bale and Adebayor were definitely off form. We absolutely must win the next match and the Manchester sides must start losing!
 

---

Posted by pjl (# 16929) on :
 
It is in Spurs hands to ensure that one of the
Manchester teams loses this weekend
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
So I see: I looked up the football section in The Guardian.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Carefree, wherever we may be,
We are the famous CFC,
And we don't give a fuck,
whoever you may be.

We all follow the Chelsea!
 

---

Posted by Jigsaw (# 11433) on :
 
Patrice Muamba, Bolton player, collapsed on the pitch during the game - obviously life-threatening situation, no other players around, paramedics gave resuscitation including defibrillation, on the pitch, he is now in hospital.
Match abandoned, quite rightly.
that all will be well.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Yeah, brings things into perspective.


 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
He's in a "stabile condition", apparently.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Stable but still in intensive care was the last I heard.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I pray that he lives and makes a full recovery. He is a father.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Anything Beck's can do.....

c 1:10 onwards, sorry, UK only.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Ooo - I was going to resurrect this thread so I can gloat about Chelsea's recent performances. How awesome were they last night?!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Ooo - I was going to resurrect this thread so I can gloat about Chelsea's recent performances. How awesome were they last night?!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Oh, they will almost certainly lose next week.

---

They said this about last night's game as well.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Saw Becks back in March in front of 48K in the Concacaf Champions League here in Toronto. Frings had him for lunch all night with Beck ending up playing a Deep DM role in order to get the ball.

He really should not be playing for GB at the Olympics - his form is very poor.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Saw Becks back in March in front of 48K in the Concacaf Champions League here in Toronto. Frings had him for lunch all night with Beck ending up playing a Deep DM role in order to get the ball.

He really should not be playing for GB at the Olympics - his form is very poor.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Oh, they will almost certainly lose next week.

---

Would you like some ketchup with that humble pie, ken?


 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Well, there's still time for West Ham not to get promoted, which will restore the balance of justice.

(We had pie and mash on Monday watching them beat poor unfortunate Leicester on TV. The pie wasn't very humble, but neither were the West Ham fans)
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
Well, there's still time for West Ham not to get promoted, which will restore the balance of justice.

(We had pie and mash on Monday watching them beat poor unfortunate Leicester on TV. The pie wasn't very humble, but neither were the West Ham fans)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I have this dream that for the second time in three years unfancied Blackpool will beat the smart-alecks to a place in the Premiership.

---

So, I'm sure, do Blackpool. And they will do all they can to make it happen. So perhaps they will want to keep their powder dry for the last game of the regular season, conserving their energies, avoiding injuries, taking few risks, not getting any cards, playing cautiously, not worrying too much if they fall behind a little - and so give Millwall the chance for a sixth win in a row
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I hadn't realised The Lions had done so well recently! Blackpool always get a warm welcome at The Den; warmer than that which other seaside teams get anyway.

Elsewhere, don't let me hear any of those Premiership managers complain about fixture congestion.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I suppose The Rain in Spain is falling mainly on the Big Two's fans.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
I once watched a team I hate play in the semi-final of the European Cup. They were playing away and went 2-0 down to a quality team. Their captain got booked, and would miss the final. So did one of their midfielders. That was 1999.

The last time a team played in their own stadium for the final of the European Cup, they played a team from England. And lost.

I can't stand Munich either. When I lived in Dachau I got to see plenty wools. I daresay they don't know who Bayern will play this weekend.

While Madrid have Alonso and Arbeloa, they also have Ronaldo and the fascist-liking manager.

Maybe I'll miss the final.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I give up: my Spurs are done for and mired in fifth. I'll cheer for Barcelona and City. We jolly well better beat Rovers!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Hodgson for England? Dear, oh dear.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Hodgson for England? Dear, oh dear.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Hodgson for England? Dear, oh dear.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I thought this article on ZonalMarking was pretty interesting. Makes a good case for Woy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I thought this article on ZonalMarking was pretty interesting. Makes a good case for Woy.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Did they keep quiet until the Baggies were destined for a safe mid-table finish?

---

That seems to be the consensus opinion.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Spurs back in fourth - God willing it's for good.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I assure you - God is not a Spurs fan.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
He doesn't think Man U's so hot either!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Actually, now I stop and think about it, the last few weeks have conclusively proven that God is a Wiganer.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
For the second time in three years the Tangerine Dream lives! Ollie and his boys have taken Blackpool to the Championship play-off final on May 19th, where they play West Ham.
 

---

Posted by Padre Joshua (# 13100) on :
 
Looks like Alabama is going to have a good year in the newly re-aligned SEC West. Texas A&M won't provide much of a challenge this year, and probably next. I have heard that Auburn is going to make a move for another championship this year, so that will be interesting to watch. In the SEC East, the dog's breakfast from the past three or four years continues. Tennessee is supposedly looking good (first time in five or six years), so maybe they'll give Florida and South Carolina a run for the money. Vandy and Kentucky will suck as always, and Georgia will come out strong and fizzle halfway through the season.

I predict Bama vs. Texas or perhaps Oklahoma for the national championship, with LSU and Auburn playing strong and perhaps going all the way.


Oh, you guys are talking about soccer. I'll get my coat.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
There is an NFL thread which I'm sure could be widened out to college football.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
For the second time in three years the Tangerine Dream lives! Ollie and his boys have taken Blackpool to the Championship play-off final on May 19th, where they play West Ham.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Padre Joshua:
Looks like Alabama is going to have a good year in the newly re-aligned SEC West. Texas A&M won't provide much of a challenge this year, and probably next. I have heard that Auburn is going to make a move for another championship this year, so that will be interesting to watch. In the SEC East, the dog's breakfast from the past three or four years continues. Tennessee is supposedly looking good (first time in five or six years), so maybe they'll give Florida and South Carolina a run for the money. Vandy and Kentucky will suck as always, and Georgia will come out strong and fizzle halfway through the season.

I predict Bama vs. Texas or perhaps Oklahoma for the national championship, with LSU and Auburn playing strong and perhaps going all the way.


Oh, you guys are talking about soccer. I'll get my coat.

---

Drink!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
What an afternoon! You have to laugh at the City fans who left before the end of extra time.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Anyone else have the idea that Joey Barton, a former Man City player, was trying to help his old club? I thought Balotelli was a headcase but Barton has additional ingredients. If a fan did what he does, he'd be banned from every ground in the Premiership and the Football League.

I noticed the usual gracelessness from SAF, remarking on the opposition having ten men and scoring in added time, like the Mancs have never benefitted from those!

That's all by-play though: the truly important news is that Everton finished ahead of those flash newcomers from the other side of Stanley Park, to whom I sincerely send my best wished for the Cup Final. Really. Yes. ABC (Anyone but Chelsea).
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I'm confused. Which cup final? The one that Chelsea already won?
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
I'm just happy Man U didn't win the Premiereship!
 

---

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I'm just happy Man U didn't win the Premiereship!

---

Well said, Sir K.!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I'm happy that Chelsea have the chance to deny Spurs a place in the Champions' League. Saturday night just got even bigger!
 

---

Posted by pjl (# 16929) on :
 
Man City champions.

Those last 2 games, manure and Newcastle did my heart no good.

Re the game with QPR, I almost died during the last 5 minutes, what a game.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I'm confused. Which cup final? The one that Chelsea already won?

---

Yes, I made a mistake, but I'l be supporting another team in red on Saturday.

[edit: [bub] error]

[ 14. May 2012, 21:33: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Chelsea bites! Spurs have light-years more potential than those who did worse: if that bullying Italian thug had gotten a red card in a timely manner whose absence yielded two undeserved free kicks for Roobey, Man City might not be where they are today.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Erm, that would be the dreaded Rooney of whom I spoke...
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So, (not unexpectedly), Dalglish has gone and, true to form, Liverpool fans desperately cling to the past by hoping Benitez will be named as his successor. Personally, I'd take Martinez over the Spanish Waiter any day of the week.
 

---

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, (not unexpectedly), Dalglish has gone and, true to form, Liverpool fans desperately cling to the past by hoping Benitez will be named as his successor.

---

Don't know about 'hope'. More, 'Who would be mad enough to accept a role that requires you to put Liverpool back in the Champions League when all the money's been spent on underperforming flops, which gave Houllier a heart attack, Benítez kidney stones, and Hodgson and Dalglish some fairly rapid P45s, and at a club where all the senior backroom staff have been sacked or resigned?'


 

---

Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on :
 
Who will win the Champions League? Who cares. I'm already rooting for Atlético Madrid for the UEFA Super Cup. Anything but Chelski.

On more pressing matters. This is the second time in succession that Huddersfield Town have made it to the League 1 Play-off Final, and the third time in three years in the play offs. I'm hoping it's third time lucky and Championship football next season.
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I'd take Martinez over the Spanish Waiter any day of the week.

---

Do you mean to say that Mr. Sachs in his role as Manuel in
Flowery Twats has applied for the position?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sir Kevin:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I'd take Martinez over the Spanish Waiter any day of the week.

---

Do you mean to say that Mr. Sachs in his role as Manuel in
Flowery Twats has applied for the position?

---

Alfred Sachs is getting on and he's not very well. Yes, I suppose that puts him in contention.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So... Guess what I'm going to post about today...

.
.
.

Come on Blackpool!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So... Guess what I'm going to post about today...

.
.
.

Come on Blackpool!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam:

On more pressing matters. This is the second time in succession that Huddersfield Town have made it to the League 1 Play-off Final, and the third time in three years in the play offs. I'm hoping it's third time lucky and Championship football next season.

---

Blade reporting in. We've been in play-offs five times before, and have a ..... poor record. I feel your pain, and hope it continues for you
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
It will be an all Yorkshire playoff anyway...

In similar news, I must admit I'm looking forward to watching the big game in the pub tomorrow. (And I guess I'll hang around in the pub afterwards to see Chelski lose to Bayern)
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Gutted for Blackpool. The second was a horrible goal to concede.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
"Like Aston Villa, you've won it one time."
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
"Like Aston Villa, you've won it one time."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
"Like Aston Villa, you've won it one time."

---

You're hilarious.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 

 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Good for York to go up.

Still not going to stop many Luton supporters from continuing there "we're too big for this league" talk.

Toronto FC 0-9.
 

---

Posted by Liberty (# 713) on :
 
That is all!
 

---

Posted by Cod (# 2643) on :
 
A good comment to a Guardian piece congratulating Manchester City: "Congratulations to the Abu Dhabi royal family for being very rich".

Likewise, hearty congratulation to Roman Abramovich.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
Heh. Some mancs were saying that Manchester City only won because of the money they spent, like their spending since the 1990s has been on a shoestring. In fact the manc team cost only about 10m less than the City team.

I remember us breaking the transfer records for the King, as well as Beardsley, maybe Rushie as well (though the mancs were spending more in general at that time).
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Don't you think that if it wasn't about money then Arsenal would have been a lot more successful than in recent years?

But it has always been that way and most other sports are the same, so there's no point complaining.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
Arsenal are what FSG want us to be: Regularly getting into the European Cup, while winning cups is not seen as important. Arsenal are where they are now also due to the expensive stadium they have. Saying that, FSG would never give the manager as much power as Wenger has, and even a cup win wouldn't keep him in the job

To tell the truth, though, things are not now as they have been before. While we may have splashed out a bit in the 80s, the money spent now by the bigger clubs is in proportion much more than it was.

Our double season of 1986 saw West Ham and Chelsea beneath us (in the days when I actually didn't mind Chelsea ). Before that, we had Aston Villa winning the title, Notts Forest as well and Derby. We won the league in the early 60s in the first season after we had been promoted. That never happens now. Hell, Norwich were right up there in 1994/94.

Things have changed. Norwich and Aston Villa did well through good managers and players. Now money is needed. A lot of it. Both Newcastle and Spurs had spent a few pennies. Of course, good managers and players are needed on top of that, but money counts for more than it used to.

To tell the truth, I don't love the game as much as I did. Nowhere near as much. When we were doing badly in the 90s (well, despite two cups) we had at least an ethos at the club that wasn't just about money. Now the balance sheet is more important than cups (Ian Ayre said that the King would have been sacked even if we had won the FA cpu). To add to that, last season saw a lot of bilious shite put our way. Songs implicating that Liverpool fans were to blame for Hillsborough have, through the mancs, become standard, sung by all manner of teams such as Norwich.

I used to like Kerry Dixon and David Speedie (even before he came to ours), Oxford United, West Ham (sorry, Ken), Celtic, Norwich and Newcastle. I bought Blackburn and Leeds fanzines. I used to watch every single live game going, including foreign games. I used to be in love with the game. Now I see my own club selling out, a selling out that I myself wanted so that we could "compete".

Chelsea winning the European Cup is way way down on my list of things that I don't like about football now.

Hell, here in Poland billions of złoty has been invested in stadiums, while some flats here in Wrocław don't have running water and toilets, while at the same time a massive hole by the new stadium here needs filling, the cost being 5-10m złoty, which is about 1-2.5m pounds. In the Ukraine they are burning homeless animals alive in order to "clean up" the areas around stadiums.

In Warsaw there used to be an international market, where one could get produce from Asia and all manner of countries. That was booted out and now there is the national stadium, a stadium where Legia Warsaw play, a team whose fans sing anti-semitic songs and have banners about "white power".

I don't think I'll kick this game off, but I even found that I didn't get that exited about our wins over you lot in the Carling Cup, or against Cardiff in the final. The game is for the many who don't have a real connection to clubs now, those who only watch the big games, those who want instant success.
 

---

Posted by Cod (# 2643) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Heh. Some mancs were saying that Manchester City only won because of the money they spent, like their spending since the 1990s has been on a shoestring. In fact the manc team cost only about 10m less than the City team.

I remember us breaking the transfer records for the King, as well as Beardsley, maybe Rushie as well (though the mancs were spending more in general at that time).

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Bayern, Real, Barca, and most of the big Italian teams count, don't they?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cod:
...Thatcher's government...

---

You didn't just use the 'T' word, did you?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cod:
It will be interesting to see what happens next. There is probably no profit to be made in buying up a club whose brand is already global (as Hicks and Gillet probably found to their cost). Such profit to be made is probably in clubs that aren't quite at that level - and Manchester City were one of those. Probably also Birmingham City and Villa, although they have been less successful.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ricardus:
Possibly, but Wikipedia defines supporter ownership as ownership "via either a collective organisation or where the assumption of majority ownership by a small group is prohibited by the club's constitution or governing documents". So Abramovich wouldn't count.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cod:
On another topic, what do any Liverpool fans here think of the proposed stripping back of the badge?

Liverpool kit launch sparks anger among Hillsborough families.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ricardus:
Don't know about 'hope'. More, 'Who would be mad enough to accept a role that requires you to put Liverpool back in the Champions League when all the money's been spent on underperforming flops, which gave Houllier a heart attack, Benítez kidney stones, and Hodgson and Dalglish some fairly rapid P45s, and at a club where all the senior backroom staff have been sacked or resigned?'

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Liverpool fans always say that their manager has to have European experience. Managing in Wales has to count, doesn't it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Liverpool fans always say that their manager has to have European experience. Managing in Wales has to count, doesn't it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeRoc:
Is it ok to open a thread to discuss the Euro Cup? I'm going to watch our first game tomorrow with some Danish colleagues, that should be fun.

I'm hoping that Holland will win of course, but I'm not 100% confident. With the Dutch, it's all between the ears. When they are psychologically well, they can beat any team 3-0. But when they start thinking too much, they could lose as well, even against the weaker teams.

At least the group we're in is interesting. All four group members are in FIFA's top 10! I wonder how they got that together.

But I admit that Spain probably has the best chances of winning. What do you think?

---

On paper, Spain should win, but see my sig line. I reckon a lot of the Spanish players are knackered after a long season, more so than players who play in other countries, and I can't help but think that there's an upset in the works this year.

I drew Croatia in a sweepstake, so I'm currently mugging up on Modric's buddies before their game against Ireland on Sunday. Anything to distract me from the debacle of the English preparation!
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
Over the years some unfancied sides have won the 'Euros' as it seems to be called. The then Czechoslovakia beat West Germany in 1976, Denmark (only invited at a fortnight's notice) then beat the whole of Germany in 1992 while Greece beat the home favourites Portugal in 2004 (twice). Hosts don't seem to have the same advantage that they have in the World Cup, possibly because the cultures don't vary so much.

Despite that, I'm going to follow the old story about international football: A game played for 90 minutes by 22 men kicking a ball around at the end of which the Germans win. They aren't strangers to Poland and Ukraine either
 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 

quote:

---

Over the years some unfancied sides have won the 'Euros' as it seems to be called.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
My personal favorite meme of the buildup has been "we don't have any chance so expectations are low so the pressure is off so actually we have quite a good chance."

Hilarious.

---

The England backroom team want to avoid adverse press when the team doesn't deliver. That's a typical English attitude though, paying more attention to a fear of failure than concntrating on winning half a dozen football matches.

The competition's started well for everyone except Poland.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Really? I doubt the Czech Republic team's hotel is going to be a joyous place tonight.
 

---

Posted by pjl (# 16929) on :
 
Interesting games last night, the star so far is the man u man.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Howard Webb?
 

---

Posted by pjl (# 16929) on :
 
got it in one


 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jonah the Expert Football Pundit:
I've gone for revenge for the World Cup - Netherlands to beat Spain in the final

---

Doesn't look like such a smart choice now.

LeRoc, hope you found somewhere to watch it with like-minded folks. You aren't anywhere near Durban are you?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Good game there today, but perhaps the subject for another thread.

And I've been working on a punchline about the Danes bringing home the bacon, but I can't quite phrase it right.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Good game there today, but perhaps the subject for another thread.

And I've been working on a punchline about the Danes bringing home the bacon, but I can't quite phrase it right.

---

Could you say that they didn't get 'clogged' up?

Germany v Portugal went the way of my earlier post. A couple of commentators suggested that they were fortunate in this game and will only improve.

[ 09. June 2012, 20:47: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
I'm gonna steal that line, if you don't mind.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Encouraging performance from the English .

The lack of hype surrounding the England team on this occasion is no bad thing .
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
Encouraging performance from the English.

The lack of hype surrounding the England team on this occasion is no bad thing .

---

quote:

---

Jonah the Whale: LeRoc, hope you found somewhere to watch it with like-minded folks. You aren't anywhere near Durban are you?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I hate to disagree, but Denmark's win was fully deserved for the simple reason that they scored more goals.

---

And they were playing the Netherlands. Any side playing the Netherlands gets my support.

[ 12. June 2012, 12:04: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Err... I was trying to give the Danish fans a compliment. Whatever.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Oh I know. And I was trying to suggest that they didn't need to be so self-deprecating.


 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeRoc:
Err... I was trying to give the Danish fans a compliment. Whatever.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
The lack of hype surrounding the England team on this occasion is no bad thing .

---

Let's keep the hype down.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam:
As for last night, they did fairly well. As did the French. Mistakes from both sides cancelled each other out.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We expect Argentinians and Italians to be dirty b******s but not such peaceful people as the Dutch.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We expect Argentinians and Italians to be dirty b******s but not such peaceful people as the Dutch

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shamwari:

Boring.

---

I take it you weren't around to watch international football in the 70s ?

Often the ball would be passed back the full length of the pitch to a goal-keeper who then spent 5 mins rubbing it with his gloves .
He would eventually proceed to kick it up pitch, only for the whole process to be repeated if the attack was going nowhere.

Now that *was* boring.

 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We expect Argentinians and Italians to be dirty b******s but not such peaceful people as the Dutch.

---

Have you ever seen Dirk Kuyt play (in either orange or red)?!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
The main method of attack seemed to be pass it back to the goalie and run like hell the other way hoping that a big long boot will find a someone to cross it into the goal mouth and head it in. But for that to work someone actually has to be far enough forward to go for it. And not offside.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
The main method of attack seemed to be pass it back to the goalie and run like hell the other way hoping that a big long boot will find a someone to cross it into the goal mouth and head it in. But for that to work someone actually has to be far enough forward to go for it. And not offside.

---

Funny, I thought that was how the English method of attack always worked. Surely Peter Crouch wouldn't have 42 caps in another system.

---

Would that be the Peter Crouch that has scored 22 goals in those 42 games? Few players score more than a goal every two games, and he's not that good in the air!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Really? I think he's a thug.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Really? I think he's a thug.

---

Crouch? Not in Stoke City terms. He's physical and at 6'7" many are scared of him but Everton put Heitinga or Jagielka on him and have few problems on the 'physical' side of things.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Oops - my mistake. I was replying to your post about Kuyt.

Nah, Crouchy's just gangly and clumsy, not vindictive. And he likes it played into his feet, don't you know.
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Nah, Crouchy's just gangly and clumsy, not vindictive.

---

quote:

---

Sioni Sais: I watched them play a few times and it was clear that one element of this totality was that they were all as hard as nails.

---

Oh, I'll readily admit that Holland plays too rough at times, especially when they're losing and become frustrated. I still remember Van Basten kicking a Danish player into hospital in the semi-final of 92

I'm still hoping that we get a Holland x England some time in this tournament, I'd like to have a bit of friendly rivalry on this thread. But that seems to have become difficult now

I'm not even sure if I'll have the stamina to watch the game against Germany today. We could be out of the tournament already...
 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 
LeRoc:

quote:

---

We could be out of the tournament already...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
LeRoc:

quote:

---

We could be out of the tournament already...

---

Almost prophetic, but a 2-0 win over Portugal would still do it, as long as Germany beat Denmark.

---

quote:

---

Jonah the Whale: Almost prophetic, but a 2-0 win over Portugal would still do it, as long as Germany beat Denmark.

---

Yeah, I know. But I have to admit it's a long shot. We watched the game with a half-German, half-Mozambican friend, but he supports for Holland In spite of the result and the relatively boring game, we still had a nice evening.

Sometimes, I think the Dutch public suffers from a just-not-good-enough-syndrome. I think for the last decades our team has done remarkably well for a small country, but we always seem to miss the big prizes (88 notwithstanding). In every tournament, the public seems have a feeling that this time we deserve to win that's sometimes a bit exagerrated.

I have a sense that some of this has passed on to the players, sometimes leading to over-confidence and arrogance, sometimes to agressiveness in games where Holland is threatened to go out of the tournament. I'm glad it didn't happen yesterday, but I fear it might happen on Sunday.
 

---

Posted by Og: Thread Killer (# 3200) on :
 
Is this where I go to say I have no sympathy for Harry Redknapp?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Yes it is.

Apparently Roy sent him a text expressing support. That must have been salt in the wound.
 

---

Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeRoc:
Sometimes, I think the Dutch public suffers from a just-not-good-enough-syndrome. I think for the last decades our team has done remarkably well for a small country, but we always seem to miss the big prizes (88 notwithstanding). In every tournament, the public seems have a feeling that this time we deserve to win that's sometimes a bit exagerrated.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Is this where I go to say I have no sympathy for Harry Redknapp?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam:

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeRoc:
Sometimes, I think the Dutch public suffers from a just-not-good-enough-syndrome. I think for the last decades our team has done remarkably well for a small country, but we always seem to miss the big prizes (88 notwithstanding). In every tournament, the public seems have a feeling that this time we deserve to win that's sometimes a bit exagerrated.

---

Replace the word 'Dutch' with 'English' and the statement is still true.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.

---

That is wronger than a wrong thing that's mistaken. England's national sport is moaning. Below-par performance is a consequence.

If there's a country that punches above its weight it has to be Australia. A population of under twenty million plays like one four time that size.

---

Australia? In football, the sport where they changed continents because it was too difficult to qualify, just to see New Zealand do it next World Cup qualifications? Hmm...

I was about to discuss your first point, but then realized you may have proven it yourself.
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Really? I think he's a thug.

---

Strange thing to say.

I've got no bother about that being said about, say, Skrtel (I wouldn't mind it if he was), but Kuyt?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.

---

That is wronger than a wrong thing that's mistaken. England's national sport is moaning. Below-par performance is a consequence.

If there's a country that punches above its weight it has to be Australia. A population of under twenty million plays like one four time that size.

---

Australia? In football, the sport where they changed continents because it was too difficult to qualify, just to see New Zealand do it next World Cup qualifications? Hmm...

I was about to discuss your first point, but then realized you may have proven it yourself.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
...the general sentiment that Redknapp is an effective manager for getting teams close to the big time but probably not the right guy for taking the last step. Cold, calculating decision by Levy, but probably the right one.

---

quote:

---

The more I thought about that game, the more I realised how bad both teams were. Bloody entertaining, mind

---

Referring to England v Sweden, obviously.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
It was definitely entertaining

OK a bit of a shambles , yet I felt happy for all those England supporters watching the game in pubs or at home , ( and those who were there ).

What the heck , we not likely to win the competition . Throw caution to the wind and let the bright new like stars like Carroll, Welbeck and Walcott do what they did last night .

No disrespect towards Rooney but I've yet to see him do a lot with an England shirt on .
Prove me wrong this time Wayne
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
To quote Michael Cox of ZonalMarking

quote:

---

The more I thought about that game, the more I realised how bad both teams were. Bloody entertaining, mind

---

Referring to England v Sweden, obviously.

---

Danny Mills suggested that it was like Stoke v Everton. It was a lot like a Premiership game, but any Premiership side with a defence like England's would be planning at Xmas how to spend their 'parachute payment' for the next season.

Lescott must go. You can't select defenders for their ability to score a few goals. I hope that Hodgson does what Moyes did, and replace him with Jagielka, but Jones will probably get the job. Milner can make way too, Ashley Young looked lost at times (he was on the field wasn't he?) so fitting Rooney in shouldn't be a problem. There are grounds for going 4-3-3 if only to get the best combination on the field to start with, but that might not be desirable as Theo could be more effective when he comes on as the opposition are tiring.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
To be fair to Young, he was asked to play on the left rather than his preferred central role. Might explain why he found it harder to get into the game yesterday. As for the defenders, I don't see any particular reason to drop Lescott. I certainly am not convinced that Jones would do any better defensively and at least Terry and Lescott have the advantage that they've played together twice.

But I have to say, this is all rather academic really, since France are likely to spank Sweden meaning that we'll finish second (assuming we do our job against Ukraine properly) and get Spain in the quarter finals. Game over, sunshine.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
They only have to score the same number of goals as Ukraine to go through.

So stick Carroll up as a lone point man with both Rooney and Welbeck behind him, keep Young and Lescott and Oxlade-Chamberlain in midfield and go for a 6-all draw...

Well, its a theory...
 

---

Posted by Sir Kevin (# 3492) on :
 
Will Becks be playing in the next match? I am really irritated with television broadcasts here: we did not get the England-Sverige (Sweden) match at all - only highlights of one goal!


What the hell am I paying the bloody cable company for if not to see live broadcasts of all major sports?
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Sir Kevin, every game is being shown live on ESPN, isn't it? If that's not true then I know for definite that they're all being streamed on ESPN3.
 

---

Posted by Balaam (# 4543) on :
 
A Question:

Why did Greece go through on 4 points and goal difference of 0 when Russia had the same number of points and a goal difference of 2?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam:
A Question:

Why did Greece go through on 4 points and goal difference of 0 when Russia had the same number of points and a goal difference of 2?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
This is, like, the third time I've posted this link this evening. Point 2 is equivalent to head-to-head record if two teams have the same number of points.

If three teams are tied (which may happen in Group B tomorrow), then the goal difference from games between those three teams is what counts.

One question that I can't think of an answer to is how Points 9 and 10 could ever be reached: surely it's not possible for teams to tie in the UEFA rankings, is it?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Would that be the Peter Crouch that has scored 22 goals in those 42 games? Few players score more than a goal every two games, and he's not that good in the air!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cod:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.

---

Not just football. Think rugby and how England are so much better resourced than any of the SH countries, yet they normally lose to them. Likewise in cricket.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cod:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.

---

Not just football. Think rugby and how England are so much better resourced than any of the SH countries, yet they normally lose to them. Likewise in cricket.

---

On the other hand we are stunningly good at the sitting-down sports. "Punching above our weight" at shooting and archery and rowing and equestrian events, near-dominance at the sort of cycling that doesn't involve spending drug-sodden weeks churning up huge portions of France. Clearly the centre of world horse racing, and - counting Britain and Ireland together - almost the only significant player in jump racing, which is the Best Kind of Racing. And we have genuine dominance in motor racing, which tends to be hidden from view because the logos on the outside of the cars and the driver in the seat, are often not British, when the engine inside almost always is.

---

Yep, and Sweden dominates floorball, bandy and is a great power in all skiing sports. All nations will find their own niches, I suppose.


Oh, also, what do you think of the Swedish spy scandal? I can guarantee that this was not some secret deed, but a journalist happening on an interesting story - it was published on the front page of Sweden's second largest broadsheet's website 12 hours ahead of the game start. I thought of translating it for you guys, but thought it might be better to do it at the start of the game or later... (Seems no Swedes told the British media or national side until after the game, actually - quite impressive feat of teaming up as a nation!) Seems Sun readers are quite upset, though...
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cod:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Would that be the Peter Crouch that has scored 22 goals in those 42 games? Few players score more than a goal every two games, and he's not that good in the air!

---

Indeed he is not. All but three of his goals have come against opposition too weak to require England to resort to route-one tactics.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cod:

quote:

---

Originally posted by JFH:
I'd honestly say that England isn't getting what it should out of a population of that size considering that football is the main sport.

---

Not just football. Think rugby and how England are so much better resourced than any of the SH countries, yet they normally lose to them. Likewise in cricket.

---

quote:

---

Sporting wealth doesn't translate into national team performances. I think football's popularity and wealth in England ought to have yielded at least one trophy since 1966.

I've no idea what the reasons are. It's fair to note the dominance of English domestic clubs in the 1970s and 1980s, and it still seems the case that English players deliver their best in their club shirts.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Back in the seventies and eighties football wasn't the 'international' game it is now, but the English clubs that won European club trophies in the seventies and eighties had plenty of Scots, Welsh and Irish in their successful sides.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
England have been in FIFA's top 10 for years now, but against other such sides in tournaments, ie when it matters, we have a truly appalling record. Not only does Crouch not score in these, but we are reduced to individual acts of brilliance (long shots or inspired solos) for any goals against these sides, and goals like those are neither his strength nor what he is chosen for.

---

England have rarely been ranked above 5 or below 10 since the FIFA rankings commenced back in the 199s. That is commensurate with a last-16 or last-8 exit in the WC or the Euros, which is what England have generally achieved. That's also generally when one meets the very top (ie, top four) teams.

What's odd is that England have been so consistent in this respect, rather than being a bunch of lemons for a few years, and then becoming top-level (like the rugby team, which of course reverted to lemonism again after a while).
 

---

Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 
Well, that was that.

Good luck to England, I'd like to see you win. Germany, Italy or Spain winning the tournament would be boring
 

---

Posted by Cod (# 2643) on :
 
England will fluff it, and some unexpected team will go on to win. The Ukraine perhaps, or the Czech Republic.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
I'm looking forward to Friday's quarter-final between Germany and Greece. Unlike England, the Greeks are overachievers.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
So, do you reckon Spain v Croatia will actually finish two all?
 

---

Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, do you reckon Spain v Croatia will actually finish two all?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
...three forwards (Parker, Milner and Young) play midfield, leaving Welbeck and Carroll up front. That's my best guess.

---

I am glad my Spurs are being represented by Mr. Parker. I just wish my least-favourite Italian player did not get red-carded in the first half yesterday...
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
In the present economic and political circumstances I doubt if there will be many non-Germans cheering for Germany when they play Greece.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cod:
Can anyone explain? This has been puzzling me for, oh, 20 years?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cod:
England will fluff it, and some unexpected team will go on to win. The Ukraine perhaps, or the Czech Republic.

---

I'd love to see the Czechs do well but I think they'll struggle against Portugal. Apparently they are the first team ever to win a group stage in the Euros with negative goal difference.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
England appear to have made a smash-and-grab raid on Ireland's store of good luck.

And to be fair to the linesman, he should have called the Ukrainian offside so his two mistakes did cancel out.

And another thing that got lost in the furore - how bloody good was CBJT's clearance?! There's life in the old dog yet!
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
England are still in credit on the luck stacks IMO .

Some of us boring elephants have yet to forget Maradona cheating us out of a World Cup Final.

A little more lady luck against an entirely beatable looking Italy and ........ who knows ?

No, don't even think it .
 

---

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:
In the present economic and political circumstances I doubt if there will be many non-Germans cheering for Germany when they play Greece.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Doncha just love it: Ukraine score - but it is disallowed despite having an extra offical on the line! For goodness sake, put him in the stand, with TV playback.

If Sepp Blatter thinks something is wrong, then it's right.

---

quote:

---

Jonah the Whale: My boss is Greek. I'll be cheering for Germany.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Sepp Blatter has tweeted that goal line technology must be introduced. Could that be connected to the side that has benefitted by its absence?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam:
Is this the day Portugal bounce the Czechs out of the competition?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam:
Is this the day Portugal bounce the Czechs out of the competition?

---

It might be but it also seems that the goal is just not quite wide enough for Ronaldo. I think he has now hit the post 4 times so far in the Euros.

Did anyone else feel slightly lost last night as well with no football on?

Tom

---

Yes. The upside was that with no football nor cricket I found this 'other person' in the house who describes herself as 'wife'. We got on very well and there could be something in this
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
It's probably merely unfortunate timing, like the way penalty shoot outs became a questionable way to decide a final after an English team beat a German team.
JtW

---

I seriously thought: What is he talking about? until I clicked the link.
Funny, I never think of Chelsea as an English team in any way. How many Englishmen did they field in that game? Are they not more of a Russian club? Or a Russian money box perhaps?

But I'd be content if there was another chance for real Englishmen to try and beat us on penalties next week It would mean we went through against Greece and you'd beaten Italy!
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Oh for Goodness' sake. If it wasn't for injuries, there'd be four Chelsea players in England's starting XI at the Euros this summer, more than from United, City, Liverpool and Arsenal.
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 
Tho the English Premier League still seems to want to position itself as a sort of World Championship of club football. The place all the best players go to play each other regardless of what country they come from. They just have to do something about Barca...
 

---

Posted by Cod (# 2643) on :
 
Ch***** fielded 3 English-qualified players (Cahill, A Cole, Lampard) and had two others (Turnbull, Sturridge) on the bench. Terry, of course, was suspended.

Re English players in the Prem: according to the Torygraph out of 650 players-

267 were English
40 were ROI
28 were Welsh (10 of which played for Swansea)
22 were Scottish
8 were Northern Irish

[ 22. June 2012, 20:00: Message edited by: Cod ]
 

---

Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 
England are also the only team at the European Championships to have all their squad playing in their own National League. Which actually could be a problem as it might be good for our game if some of our players actually play abroad.

In the championship itself the Greece / Germany game has come alive - Germany should have killed the Greeks of by now but it is looking much more open game then the 1st half. And it was a great finish for the Germans 2nd goal.
 

---

Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
There you go England . Win the Italy game and your reward will be a semi-final place against Germany .


 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:
And it was a great finish for the Germans 2nd goal.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:
And it was a great finish for the Germans 2nd goal.

---

Was it? The replays I saw made it looked like he shinned it. Could've gone anywhere! Lucky git.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
There you go England . Win the Italy game and your reward will be a semi-final place against Germany .

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
There you go England . Win the Italy game and your reward will be a semi-final place against Germany .

---

I'm wondering whether I would prefer to lose to Italy in he quarters then be beaten in another Semi Final by the Germans. Or maybe the Germans have peaked to soon.... We can only hope!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:

quote:

---

Originally posted by rolyn:
There you go England . Win the Italy game and your reward will be a semi-final place against Germany .

---

I'm wondering whether I would prefer to lose to Italy in he quarters then be beaten in another Semi Final by the Germans. Or maybe the Germans have peaked to soon.... We can only hope!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:
Or maybe the Germans have peaked to soon.... We can only hope!

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:
Or maybe the Germans have peaked to soon.... We can only hope!

---

I fear that they're still warming up. Schweinsteiger can't be this bad for the whole tournament* and Özil wasn't firing on all cylinders yesterday. If these two come good and Gomez shows his usual form then they'll be almost impossible to beat.

---

SEVEN of the Germans have scored in four games. And that doesn't include Schweinsteiger, Özil, or Müller - all three of of them have scored more international goals than anyone on the England team other than Rooney, Defoe, and Gerrard, despite being on average five years younger.

Or if you look at goals per game, Schweinsteiger consistently gets about one in every four international games (at Bayern its only about one in ten, presumably they play him more defensively). Of the Germans who have played in ten or more internationals that makes him the fifth most frequent scorer, after Klose, Gomez, Podolski and Müller (in that order) but ahead of Özil. If he was in the England team he'd be about third equal wth Young, after Defoe and Rooney but well ahead of Gerrard.

I think Schweinsteiger has become my second-favourite international player, afer Messi One day it might be Carroll, but he'd probably need to go back to Newcastle (which I honestly think he will one day) for that. Not that he is likely to care what I think of it. Carroll vs. Schweinsteiger would be some contest. If it was played out in a back alley off the Bigg Market in Newcastle at 2am on a Friday night, Carroll would probably win easily. On a football pitch? Probably not.

And the man of the tournament for England so far? Hart, without a shadow of a doubt.
 

---

Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by ken:


And the man of the tournament for England so far? Hart, without a shadow of a doubt.

---

I'd have probably said Gerrard as he has set up 3 of our 5 goals. And Johnson has really impressed me at right back - I thought he would have been our defensive weak link but he seems to be the strongest.


France / Spain tonight. Hoping the Spanish play at least one striker and try and do something with their possession. Should be a good game.
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Johnson's only looked passable because Milner's spent all his time helping out. In contrast, on the left, Cole's done a good job and allowed Young to get forward.

As for Spain, I was rather enjoying their attempt to construct a conceptual expression on the futility of modern life symbolized by the absence of a center forward. As theoretical artistic works go, I would rate it quite highly.

[ 23. June 2012, 15:25: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
Spain: specializing in self-parody.
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
I hope the English players are not as defeatist as you sound - in case they go through tonight. Which I sincerely hope (will be watching with English friends in Irish pub in Frankfurt).
At least you have beaten us in tournaments a few times. Which is more than germany has managed against Italy...
 

---

Posted by Tom Day (# 3630) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:
I hope the English players are not as defeatist as you sound - in case they go through tonight. Which I sincerely hope (will be watching with English friends in Irish pub in Frankfurt).
At least you have beaten us in tournaments a few times. Which is more than germany has managed against Italy...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam:
To be fair to Rooney he was OK - not good, but OK - in the first half except when he went into the air. There seemed to be be some extra gravity holding him down which didn't affect other players. Even on the overhead kick he was not high enough.

The second half and extra time, how many England attacks went the way of Carroll gets the ball, passes ball to Rooney, Rooney loses the ball.

England's player of the tournament has to be Joe Hart.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam:
England's player of the tournament has to be Joe Hart.

---

Nah - EBJT (CLL).
 

---

Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
I don't think england were THAT bad. We have all seen the defending team winning games like that one. They had for or five very good chances and defended with pluck and luck.
And had the ref punished only one of the many occasions when Italians pulled on white shirts in the box...
At least England now have a good goalie. He's young and may see the day when England also produce confident penalty takers. Could be a while, though.
Now I fear the worst on Thursday. Losing to Italy for us is like losing to Germany fis for you guys
 

---

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Balaam:
England's player of the tournament has to be Joe Hart.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shamwari:
What upsets me is that England are making much of the fact that "we gave 100% all round effort".

isnt that what professionals are paid obscene amounts to do?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by shamwari:
Isnt that what professionals are paid obscene amounts to do?

---

quote:

---

And had the ref punished only one of the many occasions when Italians pulled on white shirts in the box...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

---

Originally posted by shamwari:
Isnt that what professionals are paid obscene amounts to do?

---

I'm not sure they are paid to represent England, are they?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:
They do get paid but I am sure that they give their wages to a charity (from wikipedia - England players donate all their pay for international matches to charity causes via the Team England Footballers Charity,

---

quote:

---

Jonah the Whale: It's probably merely unfortunate timing, like the way penalty shoot outs became a questionable way to decide a final after an English team beat a German team.

---

After a couple of drinks, a friend of mine suggested the following: if after the official 90 minutes the score is still equal, start extra time. If after 5 minutes none of the teams have scored, bring an extra ball into the game. After another 5 minutes, a third ball. The first team to score wins.

At least this will be fun to watch!
 

---

Posted by Johnny S (# 12581) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeRoc:
After a couple of drinks...

---

quote:

---

Johnny S: Only a couple?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sylvander:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Tom Day:
They do get paid but I am sure that they give their wages to a charity (from wikipedia - England players donate all their pay for international matches to charity causes via the Team England Footballers Charity,

---

REALLY?!
Wow. Sounds good.
German players never would agree to that.
But at the end of the day it is their job. Who'd expect me to do my job for free "for my country"? Especially with all other parties involved (fonctionaries, journalists, advertisers, VIP lounge regulars) most definitely do not donate the money they generate through a tornamnent.

---

I suppose though it's not their day job is it - It is extra and a compliment to be chosen to represent your country. And with the wages the England players are on anyway...

Tom
 

---

Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 
What a let-down that game was! Spain were really sluggish and Portugal sat back after the first twenty minutes. I don't think there's any realistic chance of Germany being upset now.
 

---

Posted by Cod (# 2643) on :
 
It's never been their day job and hasn't been for a long while, which perhaps explains why England were so spectacularly unsuccessful in the 70s and 80s despite having all those great players.
 

---

Posted by Johnny S (# 12581) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeRoc:
In fact, they were. But I have to admit that these drinks were Belgian Duvels.

---

quote:

---

Johnny S: I still think that it would take about 10 Leffe Blond to come up with your plan.

---

I'm guessing you never had a Duvel!

Come to think of it, every time a game ends with equal score, the teams could resort to drinking games to decide who'll be the winner. At the very least, I guess this would improve England's chances to win (unless you're in the final against Russia)
 

---

Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
Last night's game was interesting.

Normally teams stand back and watch Spain pass it about. Portugal hunted after the ball for as long as they could. They got Spain looking a bit concerned. Spain looked their usual self in extra-time, something I put down to Portugal getting knackered and Spain actually trying to attack during that time.

Compare Portugal's play to England's in their second half against Italy. As is Hodgson's want, they sat back and watched Italy passing it about. Unlike with Portugal, they didn't try to get the ball. For that reason, England hardly touched the ball (I seem to recall reading that they touched the ball about 15 times in 20 minutes). Here are some damning statistics that show them to be only behind Ireland and Greece in terms of lack of possession of the ball. That's Hodgson all over. It worked well at small teams, but when he has class players it doesn't.

Rooney was shite. It was as if he was coming back from injury, not from a ban. The biggest threats was from the wings, with Johnson and Milner working well on the right, with Cole occasionally coming forward on the left. Parker was terrible. Gerrard was too deep to influence attacking play, though he was their best outfield player over all (certainly, he was more creative than any other English player).

As I said before the competition, I believe that Germany will win it. It would be a tremendous achievement for Spain to win three tournaments in a row, and I believe it to be beyond them.
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Gerrard was too deep to influence attacking play, though he was their best outfield player over all (certainly, he was more creative than any other English player).

---

It's damning that one outstanding cross in four games makes a player that team's most creative!

Carroll looks less out of place now. Had those around him been able to do more than chase their own first touch, England might have done better.
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
ESPN, who is covering Euro in the States, has been questioning the decision to have Ronaldo kick fifth for Portugal; a decision that eventually meant that one of the best spot kickers in the game didn't even get a shot.

I guess I can understand the logic of having your best player go last. But it does seem like a psychological edge in a shoot out is pretty major. You could make an argument that as soon as the Spanish player missed the first shot, Ronaldo should have gone in and done his thing, hopefully putting the pressure on Spain for the rest of the shoot out.

Any thoughts on the better strategy?
 

---

Posted by Sioni Sais (# 5713) on :
 
If I was in that situation I would not mess up the order: look at the state Bruno Alves got in once he had walked up to the wrong kick! No wonder he missed.

I'd have my very best penalty taker third of five. He will always get to take one, and will be in the position to turn things round if the opposition are 2-0 or 3-0 ahead. Alternatively, he could end it, but as our best he ought not to beat himself up about losing it. My next best two go first and second and if I have left and right-footed players, I'd mix them up, especially when it comes to sudden death.
 

---

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 
Holy cow, Italy up 2-0 at the half. I got a chance to watch that first goal, and it was something. Perfect jump behind the defender, perfect ball placement, completely flummoxed the German keeper, who was still on his feet as the ball went in. I didn't fancy the Italians in this match, but I guess they were ready.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
If the first goal was something , then the second goal was something else . And what about the goal celebration from Balitello
Well worth the yellow card .

The last minute penalty was small consolation for a German side that ,uncharacteristically, never took control of the game .
 

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Posted by Johnny S (# 12581) on :
 
Well I didn't see that coming.

Still, Italy win the whole thing... England go out to eventual winners on penalties... I'm sure I can work this into England coming second somehow.
 

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Posted by rolyn (# 16840) on :
 
Balotelli --< think I spelled it right this time>

[ 28. June 2012, 21:28: Message edited by: rolyn ]
 

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Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :
 

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Originally posted by rolyn:
If the first goal was something , then the second goal was something else . And what about the goal celebration from Balitello
Well worth the yellow card .

The last minute penalty was small consolation for a German side that ,uncharacteristically, never took control of the game .

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Og, King of Bashan: You could make an argument that as soon as the Spanish player missed the first shot, Ronaldo should have gone in and done his thing, hopefully putting the pressure on Spain for the rest of the shoot out.

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rolyn: And what about the goal celebration from Balitello
Well worth the yellow card .

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
And Chelsea can now claim two scalps at this tournament: Robben's poor form sunk The Netherlands' chances, and we've completely broken Schweinsteiger!

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Originally posted by rolyn:
If the first goal was something , then the second goal was something else . And what about the goal celebration from Balitello
Well worth the yellow card .

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Pity it wasn't red! That player gets away with kicking opposing players in the head. The officials must be thick not to notice how violent the Italian is. Even his own coach has reservations about him.

I am still annoyed about the lack of coverage for major matches here in the US. I get the Fox Soccer Channel and Gok, but not ESPN3...



 

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Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
If that was so that the Italian team reacts well to cheating, Germany react less well, as shown through examples of Germans cheating (such as this one, or this one, though they did react positively in this example.

I don't honesty believe that cheating will alone win you competitions. Even the mancs (who have had some help from diving players and refereeing decisions) needed to have good players in order to win stuff.

I find that teams who win tournaments are those who don't start off so well but play better as the tournament progresses. Germany peaked against Greece.

[ 29. June 2012, 10:37: Message edited by: Rosa Winkel ]
 

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Posted by Imaginary Friend (# 186) on :
 

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
I get the Fox Soccer Channel and Gok, but not ESPN3...

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Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
If that was so that the Italian team reacts well to cheating, Germany react less well, as shown through examples of Germans cheating (such as this one, or this one, though they did react positively in this example.

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I don't honesty believe that cheating will alone win you competitions. Even the mancs (who have had some help from diving players and refereeing decisions) needed to have good players in order to win stuff.

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On the field cheating doesn't help much, unless the referee is utterly 'nobbled'. Financial cheating, such as the ruses Rangers have been running for years does win competitions.
 

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Posted by Sylvander (# 12857) on :
 
I am not sure what a ball crossing the line after hitting the crossbar and the ref not seeing it has to do with cheating. Nobody can initiate this in order to fool the ref. England benefitted from that sort of oversight in 1966 (which is why in German such crossbar-bouncing balls are called "Wembley goal" ) and against Ukraine this time round. Did England cheat? Thought not.

Klinsmann's diving prowess is well known and frowned upon here. Unlike in Argentina where Maradona is publicly celebrated not despite but inter alia because of the "hand of God". Would the English public applaud a player who won a game by cheating? Would you yourself do it?

As for our referee scandal, this was a case of Croatian Mafia bribing one young referee who went to jail for it. No players were involved and his threat to name some never came to anything. The last major bribery scandal over here happened c. 1970.

If you absolutely want examples of German shame, watch 1982 Ger-France, especially extra-time. Schumacher repeatedly wasn't interested in the ball, but in punching his opponent. Successfully and unpunished. In those days, brutal fouls routinely went with a yellow or no booking. I am very glad refereering got a lot stricter since then.

However, to get away from personal rancour and anecdotal evidence: When Yogi Löw took over he publicly announced he wanted to introduce a style of play with as few fouls as possible. The result is this. I am seriously proud of this. As I was when my own team once was given the fairness trophy in a tournament where we lost the final.
 

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Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 

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Originally posted by Sylvander:
I am not sure what a ball crossing the line after hitting the crossbar and the ref not seeing it has to do with cheating. Nobody can initiate this in order to fool the ref. England benefitted from that sort of oversight in 1966 (which is why in German such crossbar-bouncing balls are called "Wembley goal" ) and against Ukraine this time round. Did England cheat? Thought not.

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Originally posted by LeRoc:

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Og, King of Bashan: You could make an argument that as soon as the Spanish player missed the first shot, Ronaldo should have gone in and done his thing, hopefully putting the pressure on Spain for the rest of the shoot out.

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Is that allowed? I always thought that the coaches gave the list of 5 players to the referee before the shots started, and then couldn't change it anymore.

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Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
The German keeper was standing at the end of both goals- no shot at either.

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Originally posted by badger@thesett:
we English are blind to our own players cheating but never forget or forgive johnny foreigner....

case in point, Peter Crouch pulled the hair of opponent to score goal in group stage that got us through in previous tournament, giving himself the chance to score and we overlooked it.

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Alan Shearer did occasionally kick people in the head like most top strikers but we never mention that

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Paul Gasgoigne put himself out of a cup game against Arsenal I think it was by committing an awful foul but wasn't sent off as he should have been only subbed as couldn't go on, only Gary Lineker was white as the driven snow.

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Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:

I don't honesty believe that cheating will alone win you competitions. Even the mancs (who have had some help from diving players and refereeing decisions) needed to have good players in order to win stuff.

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Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
This is the same FA who managed to postpone their considerations about the allegations against John Terry, waiting to see what the real judicial process says.

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Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Given that 471 out of 473 FA disciplinary hearings (a 99.5% conviction rate) find the player being charged, it is important to note that Shearer was one of the two cases where the player wasn't charged (the other was Ian Wright).

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Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
Apart from the six-match ban.

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Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
We missed all of it except for the two final goals. I am happy for Spain. They were the best side and their players seem to be less violent compared to Italy. I remember the last Euro: we were on holiday by the sea, but stayed indoors during the matches. Would that someday England could win, or in a long shot, even the US...

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
What you're forgetting, Cod, is that Liverpool are always Right and Virtuous (note the capitalization: that's how good they are!), whereas the rest of the world is always horrible and wrong. This is an axiom inherent in the nature of the created world, is everlasting and unchangeable. Blessed be the name of Bill Shankly.

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I'm not sure how one is supposed to compare teams in different eras.

One way of doing so would be to ask 'did this team change the way football is played?' Arguably the Hungarians in '54 did, the Brazilians in '71 did, but the Spanish of '08-'12 have not.

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Imaginary Friend: I'm not sure their tika-taka is that much different from the 'total football' of Gullit, van Basten, et al. That was all I really meant.

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Rosa Winkel: and to a lesser extent Holland.

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Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
You get me, don't you?

Spain and France both won back to back.

I would have preferred a Dutch win in 1990. Aside from the Völler business, that was one of the occasions when there was internal strife, no? I know that Van Basten and Gullit had injury problems. (Kind of like Liverpool, whose 1987/88 was one the best teams I've seen, but then had key injuries.) The Ajax team of the mid-90s was excellent, of course, but unfortunately they lost their best players and those players never produced the good together for Holland.
 

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Posted by LeRoc (# 3216) on :
 

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Rosa Winkel: You get me, don't you?

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Yes I do, don't worry

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Rosa Winkel: Aside from the Völler business, that was one of the occasions when there was internal strife, no? I know that Van Basten and Gullit had injury problems.

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Rosa Winkel: The Ajax team of the mid-90s was excellent, of course, but unfortunately they lost their best players and those players never produced the good together for Holland.

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I'm afraid that this is going to be a pattern. Both finalist teams of this EC, Spain and Italy, consisted overwhelmingly of players who are active within their own country. I guess that this makes it much easier to build a national team.

I'm afraid that in the future, most big tournaments will be won by countries like this, with rich competitions that keep the nation's best players in their own country. Countries like Holland, whose best players are always spread over clubs in different countries, will lose out.

Even for a country like Brazil it will become more difficult to win a WC because of this. They might still win in 2014 because they're playing at home (and I'll definitely be there to cheer them on!), but then it will be 20 years since they last won. That's a lot of time for Brazil.
 

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Posted by Rosa Winkel (# 11424) on :
 
If a class international team is one where a lot of players play at home, it'd give one reason why the Spanish team is so good. Same with the Italians.

Though not with England.

If only more Welsh players would come home
 

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