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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: How would you feel if everyone could quickly change their gender at will?
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
Neil Gaiman once wrote a fascinating short story called Changes where a Dr trying to find a cure for cancer accidentally creates a pill that changes your physical gender every time you take it. Allowing people to change their gender back and forth at will for little cost.
My question is how would you feel if this pill was invented today?
How would you feel if people close to you decided to change? Your parents? Children? Siblings?
What about your spouse/partner?
If you were looking for a girl/boyfriend would you insist on them telling you their birth gender before going out with them?
Before getting into a long term relationship would you insist that they agree never to change?
In the story a few people were able to spot peoples birth gender and were employed by some nightclubs to bar people who had changed from entering. These clubs were popular with people who were looking to flirt and date but only wanted to do so with people who hadn’t changed. What do you think of this arrangement?
Would you ever take the pill? Would you never take the pill? Why?
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Do you mean gender or sex? Think carefully before answering...
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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rhflan
Shipmate
# 17092
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Posted
I'm not completely convinced that gender is binary anymore in our (western) culture. I'm not sure that it would bother me. My sex and gender line up (I was born female and I am a woman), but I am definitely a major tomboy. If this were 200 years ago I'm sure that everyone in my town would be freaking out about the way I act and present myself.
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www.twitter.com/rhflan
Posts: 135 | Registered: May 2012
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
A very interesting question!
If you stripped out the whole question of sexual and romantic attraction, I bet you would see ...
- A stampede of women becoming men, with correspondingly disastrous effects on the birthrate,
- A massive drive towards sexual equality and perhaps even positive incentives offered for people to become women.
In practice I think a lot of women wouldn't do that because they'd think their male partners would find it icky - cue self-interrogation about What Is Really Important In Life.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
Do you mean gender or sex? Think carefully before answering...
Thank you so much for this. I am aware of the difference but for some reason, I really don't know why, I messed up my post by using gender instead of sex.
The correct question of course should be How would you feel if everyone could quickly change their sex at will.
If it's at all possible it would be really apreciated if any hosts could change it.
Mea culpa.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Are you referring to this ability suddenly becoming available, or to growing up in a species that has for time immemorial had this ability?
If the latter, then it's so far out of our ken to speculate with any degree of meaningfulness. Certainly gender (or what I think it's proxying for here, sex) wouldn't have anything like the influence, or be anything like the source of discrimination and prejudice, than it is now with us. If it's something you could change at whim, it would be not much different from hairstyle or boxers-or-briefs.
If the former, I would be bewildered, because so much of our interpersonal relations are at least tinged by, if not driven by, questions of sex and gender. After a while things would calm down, and you'd have old farts like me still uncomfortable with it (and resolutely NOT changing gender), and younger punks changing gender all the time just to make their parents uncomfortable.
A generation later few people would care except a handful of religious conservatives who insist that everybody be the "proper" gender (they would of course have a way of defining this which to them seemed obvious), and who would work diligently to pass laws to enforce their idea of gender correctness and immutability.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Chamois
Shipmate
# 16204
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I bet you would see ...
* A stampede of women becoming men
Ricardus, you've lost me on this one. Why on earth do you suppose lots of women would want to become men?
I can understand that the odd one or two might, but a stampede? Why?
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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
Posts: 978 | From: Hill of roses | Registered: Feb 2011
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chamois:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I bet you would see ...
* A stampede of women becoming men
Ricardus, you've lost me on this one. Why on earth do you suppose lots of women would want to become men?
I can understand that the odd one or two might, but a stampede? Why?
Better pay? A near 100% drop in the risk of being raped?
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
I'd change to female when I really really really wanted to win an argument.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
In one of Charles Sheffield's books, he portrays a world in which people can (though not at zero cost) change various aspects of themselves. He speculates that many people, giving each physical sex a try, would prefer being female.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Anyuta
Shipmate
# 14692
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Posted
I can tell you one thing, when backpacking or hiking, I'd definitely change my sex to male when it came time to pee.
I wonder, what exactly would change when one takes the pill? I mean, would it just be the biological changes specific to reproduction, or would it include secondary (and even tertiary) sex characteristics? would I have greater upper body strength as a male? would I grow taller? would my metabolism increase? or would I be pretty much the same as I am, only with a penis and testicles, and without breasts? and what about the more subtle differences related to hormones? because if that would change, I can tell you I'd be male at least one week out of four!
I think it may change the way we view reproduction. if both partners could produce a child, then I think it possible that the relationship between the parent which gave birth to that child and the "other" parent may be different. At first I thought "neat, we could take turns dealing with all the joys and pains of pregnancy and delivery", but of course, if we could both do it, then it's possible we'd see our "own" kids differently than our partners kids. even if we were both the biological parents.
certainly such a pill would change our views about gender, and about the "typical" roles the two genders play in society.
I agree that initially many women would choose to become men, but I don't think that would last very long, because almost immediately as this occurred, the gender inequalities would start to vanish, and therefore the incentive to change would also start to decrease.
I suspect that eventually, over time, once the novelty wore of, it would become fairly rare, something done only when a person genuinely felt out of place in their birth sex.
I read a sci fi novel once that included an alien species in which sex was something that didn't become apparent in any way until puberty. therefore parents had no idea of what sex their child would eventually become. so of course, they treated all their kids the same (at least as relates to sex). and they couldn't related to a species such as humans who knew at birth which sex their child was.
This is an interesting concept, and I think I'll have to ponder it a bit. lots of possibilities :-).
Posts: 764 | From: USA | Registered: Mar 2009
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Lord Jestocost
Shipmate
# 12909
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Posted
It would open up interesting new possibilities for spiking someone else's drinks - say, the bigoted sexist bore at the party.
Rapists could be required to spend time as the gender they hate.
The fact that "king" and "queen" are both single syllable has always been useful at coronations but could now become more useful on a daily basis. And any lagging laws that still favour one gender over another would very soon catch up.
But to answer the OP, I would understand Lady J taking the pill if it cured her cancer, and I would live with the change (she could always change back, right, and stay cancer-free?). But if she wanted to stay male then we would have to agree to be Just Good Friends. Which would be a shame.
Posts: 761 | From: The Instrumentality of Man | Registered: Aug 2007
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rhflan
Shipmate
# 17092
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Posted
If people were just changing their biological sex, and not gender, I'm not even sure that I would notice.
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www.twitter.com/rhflan
Posts: 135 | Registered: May 2012
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Aggie
Ship's cat
# 4385
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Posted
Like Anyuta, I would definitely be happy to change sex when I needed to pee. I am fed up with having to negotiate filthy, smelly public loo's when out and about, or having to pay (such as in railway stations) for the "privilege" of answering the call of nature. It would be so much easier and more convenient to pee discreetly behind the nearest bush or rubbish container or in an alley-way as many men do!! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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“I see his blood upon the rose
And in the stars the glory of his eyes,
His body gleams amid eternal snows,
His tears fall from the skies.”
(Joseph Mary Plunkett 1887-1917)
Posts: 581 | From: A crazy, crazy world | Registered: Apr 2003
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Chamois
Shipmate
# 16204
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Posted
Ursula Le Guin wrote a science fiction book featuring the inhabitants of a planet who were essentially human, but hermaphrodite. Nobody's sex was defined until they came into season, at which point their bodies might tip either way - it wasn't a matter of conscious control. So anyone might have a baby, and anyone might father a child, and generally everyone expected to do both in the course of their lives.
It was an interesting book, but I wouldn't want to live on that planet.
I really, really cannot imagine wanting to change sex. To be allowed to do all the things men are allowed to do - yes. Not to have to do some of the things women have to do - certainly. But to become a man? No, thanks. And I don't believe many women would seriously want to change. Not if they had the option of living the life they want to live as a woman.
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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
Posts: 978 | From: Hill of roses | Registered: Feb 2011
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
quote:
Originally posted by Chamois:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I bet you would see ...
* A stampede of women becoming men
Ricardus, you've lost me on this one. Why on earth do you suppose lots of women would want to become men?
I can understand that the odd one or two might, but a stampede? Why?
Better pay? A near 100% drop in the risk of being raped?
Pretty much. Plus better working conditions generally, stronger body, more prestige, no periods, no labour pains.
(This is still ignoring questions of sexual and romantic relationships though.)
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Chamois
Shipmate
# 16204
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Posted
I'd be interested to learn how many women would go for that package.
I certainly wouldn't buy it.
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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
Posts: 978 | From: Hill of roses | Registered: Feb 2011
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Jahlove
Tied to the mast
# 10290
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anyuta:
I can tell you one thing, when backpacking or hiking, I'd definitely change my sex to male when it came time to pee.
Here ya go
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“Sing like no one's listening, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody's watching, and live like its heaven on earth.” - Mark Twain
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
quote:
Ursula Le Guin wrote a science fiction book featuring the inhabitants of a planet who were essentially human, but hermaphrodite. Nobody's sex was defined until they came into season, at which point their bodies might tip either way - it wasn't a matter of conscious control. So anyone might have a baby, and anyone might father a child, and generally everyone expected to do both in the course of their lives.
It was an interesting book, but I wouldn't want to live on that planet.
Yes, it was an interesting book ('The Left Hand of Darkness'). The main protagonist, a (male) outsider from Earth, obviously thought of the hermaphrodites when they weren't in their female phase as male - part of the book is about him realising that this assumption was wrong.
[ 09. May 2012, 18:27: Message edited by: Jane R ]
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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WhateverTheySay
Shipmate
# 16598
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Posted
People changing between male and female so we could notice it? I'd call my psychiatrist!
People changing between male and female without us noticing it? It probably wouldn't make a difference to me. I'm asexual so it wouldn't bother me because I'm not attracted to anybody. It would only bother me if their personality changed at the same time.
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I'm not lost, I just don't know where I am going
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Wow, did I ever have a strong response to the OP. A positive one.
I have been fascinated with androgyny for a long time. (I am sort of aesthetically/spiritually attracted to drag queens, and the two times in my life when I have had confusing erotic feelings about women, they were both straight-up tomboys.)
So this is probably a huge YMMV thing, but I for one would love it, take full advantage of it. It would be fun to play around with.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
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PerkyEars
slightly distracted
# 9577
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Posted
I certainly wouldn't change, except perhaps as a brief experiment in bed with husband. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I'm comfortable with being a woman. I like the fact that I can give birth, both sexes have their own medical challenges, I don't give a toss about pay and prestige, and I'm buggered if I'm going to let the fear of rapists make me dislike being my sex.
I'm more than a little shocked that there are men who's view of what it is like to be a woman is so negative that they assume a stampede of woman would want out of it like a shot. If the female sex is still regarded with pity, is that in spite of or because of decades of feminism. ![[Confused]](confused.gif) ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
[ 09. May 2012, 19:01: Message edited by: PerkyEars ]
Posts: 532 | From: Bristol | Registered: May 2005
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Anyuta
Shipmate
# 14692
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Posted
I forgot to answer the other questions!!
How would you feel if people close to you decided to change? Your parents? Children? Siblings?
What about your spouse/partner?
parents.. it's their business. I probably wouldn't like it, but that's because I'm used to the idea of them being one sex or the other. since my father has passed away, it would only be my mother, and I just can't see it happening, but if it did, I would deal and probably soon get used to it. Children.. well, again, it may bother me, but it's really their business. siblings.. this one wouldn't really even phase me much. spouse? yeah, that would have to be the one where I have some say in the matter, and I think we'd both have to have a long talk before either one of us made such a change. I suspect he would be wiling to change as an experiment.. but would NOT want me to change my sex.
If you were looking for a girl/boyfriend would you insist on them telling you their birth gender before going out with them?
no, but I'd want to know their thoughts on changes to sex.. is it something they change all the time, or just onece, or with consultation... I would see frequency of change as more important to me than whether there was a change at all.
Before getting into a long term relationship would you insist that they agree never to change?
no. but we would have to have a talk about how we would go about changing. I would see it as important to the relationship to be "on the same page".
In the story a few people were able to spot peoples birth gender and were employed by some nightclubs to bar people who had changed from entering. These clubs were popular with people who were looking to flirt and date but only wanted to do so with people who hadn’t changed. What do you think of this arrangement?
I think it's OK. I mean, I probably wouldn't frequent such a club, since "birth" sex probably would matter less to me than "current" sex, but I can understand why someone else may care. I don't see anything wrong with that when the question is seeking a partner. i WOULD see something wrong with it if it were a matter of employment (as one example).
Would you ever take the pill? Would you never take the pill? Why? I already answered this one: yeah, I probably would take it at least once to experiment with it (in consultation with my spouse if I intended it to last long enough for him to have to deal with it). in the end, though, I suspect I'd return to my current sex (female). if the change was very easy (pills readily available and cheap, transition swift and painless etc.) I can see myself changing a few times. but it were just a one time deal (change or stay as you are), I'd stay as I am. it's part of my identity after all these years, and I'd have a hard time switching. but I would expect younger people to have a much easier time and perhaps change sex on a regular basis. and I don't' think I'd bemoan that societal change.
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PerkyEars:
I'm more than a little shocked that there are men who's view of what it is like to be a woman is so negative that they assume a stampede of woman would want out of it like a shot. If the female sex is still regarded with pity, is that in spite of or because of decades of feminism.
OK, stampede was a bit excessive. It seems to me, though, that the process would go something like this:
1. At first, lots of women would remain as women because being a woman is an essential part of their identity;
2. However, as sex-swapping became more common, the whole concept of 'male' and 'female' identity would break down;
3. Which means that the only real factor at play is which body is more attractive, and, all other things being equal, I think the male body generally has the advantage over the female.
Having said that, it is possible that (2) is in direct contradiction to one of my previous posts, in that, if the concept of 'male' and 'female' breaks down, it is also quite likely that the social status (pay, gender roles) attached to each state would also break down.
Also, before anyone else points it out: men have problems too. (I believe the group most at risk of suicide is young men.) However ISTM that these problems are simply not talked about, and would therefore be less likely to influence someone's choice.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Aravis
Shipmate
# 13824
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Posted
I'd take the pill, no problem. Not because I want to be permanently male but because I'd like to explore having a different identity. I'm entirely comfortable with any members of my family taking the pill as well - husband included, and having talked about "The Left Hand of Darkness" and a much more recent Ursula le Guin, "Birthday of the World", I'm aware we would both want to try it out.
I would love to see the automatic assumptions about people's likes and dislikes, on the basis of gender, seriously eroded. I would love to even the playing field on employment and advancement, to share out childcare, to stop people assuming that you have friendships with the same gender and flirtations with the opposite gender.
There are lots more interesting implications, but I'll spare you the essay...
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Ricardus
Just for the hell of it (this being an exercise in shooting the breeze)
quote:
2. However, as sex-swapping became more common, the whole concept of 'male' and 'female' identity would break down;
Would sex-swapping become more common? The only evidence we have points towards M/F identity not being infinitely plastic. Witness that poor Australian guy whose (physical) sex was reassigned after a botched circumcision. Likewise the experience of transsexuals seems to confirm this. As to gender, it seems equally possible that it might go the other way and become even more exaggerated as a response to perceived confusion.
quote:
3. Which means that the only real factor at play is which body is more attractive, and, all other things being equal, I think the male body generally has the advantage over the female.
Male may be physically stronger on average only, but lasts less long. Personally I find the female body more attractive, but I have no burning ambitions for change in that direction. YMMV.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Poptart22
Shipmate
# 17096
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Posted
I always wanted to try it out for a day. Mostly for sex. But although I'm bisexual, my wife is a lesbian, so I'm pretty sure she would not be a fan.
I'm sorry I'm not as thoughtful, I just have a very superficial desire.
Before I started dating my wife, I'd like to wear guys clothes and go out and see who referred to me as sir. It was a fun game. I like playing with gender.
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http://bibuddhistrn.blogspot.com/
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PerkyEars:
I certainly wouldn't change, except perhaps as a brief experiment in bed with husband.
I'm comfortable with being a woman. I like the fact that I can give birth, both sexes have their own medical challenges, I don't give a toss about pay and prestige, and I'm buggered if I'm going to let the fear of rapists make me dislike being my sex.
I'm more than a little shocked that there are men who's view of what it is like to be a woman is so negative that they assume a stampede of woman would want out of it like a shot. If the female sex is still regarded with pity, is that in spite of or because of decades of feminism.
That's a really good point!
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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ProgenitorDope
Apprentice
# 16648
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Posted
It would probably be pretty bad for me, actually. Historically, women can't stand to be in the same room as me, so I imagine that would be pretty painful and/or confusing if *I* suddenly couldn't stand being in the same room as me.
In all seriousness, though, I can't help but think of that old Dr. Seuss story, "The Sneeches," (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3yJomUhs0g). I'm certainly no expert, but I can't help thinking it would go something along those lines. Or not, whatever, I don't know.
Posts: 50 | Registered: Sep 2011
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
I thought of "The Left Hand of Darkness" too; probably because it is in my top ten of favourite books.
One of the points of Ursula K le Guin's fascinating fantasy is that in a world where gender is not fixed, its inhabitants are, from the outset, going to have to work out how to live together without sexist prejudices or fixed gender role models. The book when published had a certain topicality at that stage of the feminist movement. [I think Ursula Le Guin got it in the neck from some sources for using the male pronoun to describe her ambisexual humans.]
But compared with the OP, the major difference is that in "The Left Hand of Darkness" the ambisexual inhabitants of Winter have no choice. So, for example, when they mate, either partner may end up carrying the baby, having to endure labour. Now that's a thought which makes your average heterosexual male cross his legs.
Trying to answer George's OP honestly, I doubt whether it would bother me too much if others did. When it comes to human sexuality, people's motivations are very much their own. However, as a man born with a heterosexual orientation and now approaching 70, I'm not sure I'd fancy a switch. Too confusing for my poor old brain at this time.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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doubtingthomas
Shipmate
# 14498
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Posted
This sounds like a very interesting concept. I do no have a strong sense of gender identity, and I think I'd quite enjoy trying out the other kind of body.
And I must read some of the stories mentioned in this thread - thanks for those.
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'We are star-stuff. We are the Universe made manifest, trying to figure itself out'
Delenn (Babylon 5)
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
If such a pill had been available during my "clubbing" years, I'd almost certainly have used it when going out. It's far easier for girls to pull than it is for boys.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
I thought Ricardus' post was interesting because, despite being in agreement about the various disadvantages that women face, I wouldn't become a man if I had the chance - except possibly very briefly just to see what it was like and with the clear intention of changing back again.
For many of us, sex and gender *are* linked. Being female is part of my experience of being me - for better or worse I am one of those women who fits the "feminine" stereotype, enjoys make-up and pretty clothes etc etc. I can see the argument that I have been socialised this way but I can't turn the clock on that now. I am the sum of those experiences and influences and that at least in part defines the way I relate to myself. I wouldn't recognise myself anymore if I became male, and the thought of having no idea of who I was scares me more than the various inconvenient sides of being female.
Marv - is the reason that girls find it easier to pull about different attitudes to sex among young men/young women? If so, are you sure you'd still have the same desires if you became female?
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Marv - is the reason that girls find it easier to pull about different attitudes to sex among young men/young women? If so, are you sure you'd still have the same desires if you became female?
I don't know why it's different, but in my experience someone who goes out with the intention of pulling has a far higher likelihood of success if they are female. Whether that's because fewer females go out with that intention in the first place I have no idea.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Mary LA
Shipmate
# 17040
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Posted
The biggest influence on my thinking about gender as a conditioned behaviour was reading Judith Butler's Gender Trouble.
Gender for me is something I do rather than something essential and fixed about the way I am. After working with transgender activists in media, I came to realise that part of what is called cisgender privilege is that I have never had to deal with the discomfort or anguish of feeling I am the wrong gender for my body, that there is major dissonance between how I experience myself and what my appearance, genitals or physical gestures say about me.
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“I often wonder if we were all characters in one of God's dreams.”
― Muriel Spark
Posts: 499 | From: Africa | Registered: Apr 2012
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
A very interesting question!
If you stripped out the whole question of sexual and romantic attraction, I bet you would see ...
[list]
[*]A stampede of women becoming men, with correspondingly disastrous effects on the birthrate,
hmmm... what sort of assumption about men/women lie behind this comment?
The ease of the transformation would, I suspect, make for some playful short-term changes "just for fun" for experimentation. But I think our experience with transgender men and women shows us that our innate sense of gender is fairly well established, so we wouldn't see much of an explosion in long-term transitions. Although it would certainly make the process easier for those who are transgender.
For myself, I think I'd carry a few pills in my pocket when hiking for a quick change when no outhouse is available.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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cliffdweller
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# 13338
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Posted
sorry... I'm reworking old territory I see. Gotta read the whole thread before responding, but Ricardus' post was just too dang provocative...
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Earwig
Pincered Beastie
# 12057
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
3. Which means that the only real factor at play is which body is more attractive, and, all other things being equal, I think the male body generally has the advantage over the female.
Can't agree with you on that one . Having boobs is great.
Posts: 3120 | From: Yorkshire | Registered: Nov 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Hmmm. The OP has me challenging my notion of just how accepting I am.
Don't think I could deal with a partner who changed for anything other than a temporary experiment.
For one, I am attracted to one sex/gender arrangement. It is how I am wired. For another, while I do not advocate stasis, I do prefer base level stability.
I am fairly certain I would not take the pills other than for a temporary experiment. What I am has, in part, defined who I have become.
As far as family and friends, I am much more whatever.
Though, at what age would one be allowed to take the pills? Taking them at 20 would be profoundly different than taking them at 10.
The concept is an interesting thought experiment, but I think the reality would be a messier version of MT's post. Far, far messier.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Birdseye
I can see my house from here!
# 5280
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Posted
All I can think is how inconvenient it would be if everyone could change their sex at will...
If your body changed shape at all you'd have to have more clothes in the wardrobe. If your face changed shape or you grew a beard/ lost a beard... then it would be hard to recognise people your knew from one day to the next. You'd need different toiletry products in stock in the bathroom, and due to varied responses you wouldn't have the foggiest idea whether people were responding to you because of what you said and did, or who you happened to BE that day -so it would undermine your confidence.
If my family wanted to do it -I wouldn't be the least bit bothered since their sex doesn't affect my life much anyway but I would expect them to let me know what they looked like as either gender so that I could still recognise them.
I'd stay as I am because I'm used to my sex, and I wouldn 't want to have to get used to it all over again -that would be effectively reliving puberty!
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Life is what happens whilst you're busy making other plans.
a birdseye view
Posts: 1615 | From: West Yorkshire | Registered: Dec 2003
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GreyFace
Shipmate
# 4682
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Posted
It occurs to me that you could almost take the sex out of the question. Well, I am British.
What I mean is, we seem to be generally but not universally agreed that our sex is a major part of our identity. What the OP is effectively asking then is how we'd feel about having available a different or at least heavily modified identity and being able to step into and out of it at will.
I'd most likely take the pill every day and switch back and forth between the two at least for a while, whether we're talking about male/female or any other forms of me provided one wasn't obviously less pleasant than the other. Whether or not I'd settle down and decide to be one or the other is impossible to say. I'm quite happy for somebody to go away and actually invent it so I can find out, though. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 5748 | From: North East England | Registered: Jul 2003
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
I did think it was rather a male POV!
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
Can't get into the thread at all. Not imaginative enough. Would one's size and hair colour change and what about age? Would a bald man become a bald woman? Would a pregnant woman become a pregnant man? Would a pregnant "person" taking the pill automatically abort if becoming the other sex? How would the fetus get out of a female turned male?
There was a movie abput this called Zerophilia, it also left out the hard questions.
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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LutheranChik
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# 9826
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Posted
I think it's cute when the boys believe that the sun rises and falls on their dangly bits. As Julia Louis-Dreyfuss once famously observed on "Seinfeld": "I don't know how guys can live with that thing between your legs."
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
I think it's cute when the boys believe that the sun rises and falls on their dangly bits. As Julia Louis-Dreyfuss once famously observed on "Seinfeld": "I don't know how guys can live with that thing between your legs."
That's a seriously weird post, LutheranChik. The only people mentioning that (I've just re-read the thread) are all women. Directly twice (once being yours) and indirectly several more mentioning urination. What's with the obsession?
[ 10. May 2012, 17:06: Message edited by: Honest Ron Bacardi ]
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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LutheranChik
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# 9826
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Posted
Believe me, I am not obsessed with dangly bits at all.
I do get irritated with the woman-as-defective-man-who-really-would-rather-be-a-woman attitude reflected in some of the posts. That is just so stupid.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi:
quote:
Originally posted by LutheranChik:
I think it's cute when the boys believe that the sun rises and falls on their dangly bits. As Julia Louis-Dreyfuss once famously observed on "Seinfeld": "I don't know how guys can live with that thing between your legs."
That's a seriously weird post, LutheranChik. The only people mentioning that (I've just re-read the thread) are all women. Directly twice (once being yours) and indirectly several more mentioning urination. What's with the obsession?
Read Ricardus' post that LC and the rest of us are responding. The assumption that we would want to be male for anything other than the temporary convenience of urination in challenging locales is what we are responding to.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
You don't have to change biological sex to pee standing up, you can get one of these. Try a google search, you'll come up with any number competing devices with all sorts of fascinating names. I thought "GoGirl" was one of the better names, P EZ also catchy.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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