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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Game Of Thrones
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sllc
Shipmate
# 12707
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Posted
I'm hooked on Game of Thrones. Does anybody here watch it? I could do with a lot less nudity but other than that it's really well done.
Posts: 179 | From: Atlanta, GA USA | Registered: Jun 2007
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
I was thinking the same thing re nudity! I'm reading the books and have seen the first series.
Yes, very well done, indeed!
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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sllc
Shipmate
# 12707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
I was thinking the s ame thing re nudity! I'm reading the books and have seen the first series.
Yes, very well done, indeed!
I'm reading the books also but I've only had time to read the first three. Is it broadcast in UK?
Posts: 179 | From: Atlanta, GA USA | Registered: Jun 2007
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
I read all the books in the past few weeks. Good but not great, very morish. Not seen the TV show tho.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
I've read 4.5 of the 5 books. halfway through the fifth book I sort of hit this "oh get over it, already!" wall and moved on.
they're good books, in the "brain candy" spectrum of books. fun, driving reads, with fairly (but not completely) complex characters. I found myself getting frustrated at the lack of progress, however. I think the problem is that there are so many characters, and so many threads to follow, that you have to ingest a shitload of words to feel like anyone is getting anywhere. after so much sheer volume of reading, I really wanted Arya to have had some good luck, for Christ's sake, and for Bran and Rickon's existence to be known by their family. as for the rest - I'm kind of sick of caring. get on with it, people! the only exception is Tyrion - he's a little shit but also kind of endearing and fun to follow.
I haven't seen the show at all but I can see why this would make one hell of a good investment for HBO. (it is HBO, right?) it's a never ending soap opera with a fantastical setting, lots of sex and intrigue, and dragons. money in the bank.
one big bonus - my friend really got into the show, and because it took so long for the second season to come along she picked up the books out of sheer impatience to know what happens next. this is not a lady who normally reads anything beyond celebrity smut mags. so, my hat's off to George Martin for getting my girl to read a book!
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Josephine
Orthodox Belle
# 3899
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
my hat's off to George Martin for getting my girl to read a book!
Littlest One has difficulty reading (poor oculomotor control), so he doesn't read a lot. He stayed up all night last night -- literally all night -- reading the first book in the series. He's not done with it yet, and he can hardly wait to read the next one.
Nothing has hooked him like this since Harry Potter. He's loving it.
So, indeed, hat's off to George Martin, and many thanks to him for giving a reluctant reader a reason to read!
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I've written a book! Catherine's Pascha: A celebration of Easter in the Orthodox Church. It's a lovely book for children. Take a look!
Posts: 10273 | From: Pacific Northwest, USA | Registered: Jan 2003
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
I read all five books last summer, watched Season 1 of the series when it came out on DD and am now watching Season 2. I think the TV shows are very well adapted from the books, although I do sometimes get tired with HBO seeming like they have a titties-and-decapitations quota that has to be met just because they CAN show nudity and graphic violence (I found the same thing with "Rome," the other HBO series I watched and loved). Still, GRRM does give them lots of graphic material to work with. I think when they've finished his works the same production team should go on to adapt 1 & 2 Samuel and 1 & 2 Kings. It'd be a natural fit.
I liked the books a lot, found them real page-turners, had some of the same problems everyone does with the getting-bogged-down, too-many-characters-and-storylines thing. I wouldn't rank GRRM as one of my favourite fantasy novelists up there in the rarified air with Guy Gavriel Kay and Robin Hobb, but he's good, and I certainly cared about most of the characters most of the time. I'm getting a little concerned that he may have created a story too big to every finish in a satisfying way, especially as he is 62, but I hold out hope to someday read an ending ... any ending ....
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I would assume that Martin's already in talks with Brandon Sanderson.
I'm afraid I'm waiting to see if the series will get finished before I read any more.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I would assume that Martin's already in talks with Brandon Sanderson.
Perish the thought.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Eleanor Jane
Shipmate
# 13102
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Posted
Ditto on the reading, watching enjoying but doubting the books will ever finish. I do kind of hate it when authors do that...
Janny Wurts just got so trapped in her imagination she seems to have stopped altogether after about 7 increasingly long and floridly written books. (Her first three are excellent if you can cope with not knowing what happens next).
However, even half a story by George R R Martin is better than most other cliched fantasy, so I'm happy enough.
Re nudity, I don't mind as long as it's mutual! I do mind female nudes with the males decently draped. Not fair... ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 30. April 2012, 11:11: Message edited by: Eleanor Jane ]
Posts: 556 | From: Now in the UK! | Registered: Oct 2007
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
I got bored by book 1, and by episode 1, even though loads of friends are urging me to try again. Mind you, one mate shares my view abiout it being boring, and is only watching it for the nudity!
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I would assume that Martin's already in talks with Brandon Sanderson.
I'm afraid I'm waiting to see if the series will get finished before I read any more.
What? ![[Confused]](confused.gif) What am I missing?
I really enjoyed the first book but gave up half way through the second. Too bogged down in war....wasn't going anywhere.
I then accidentally discovered Brandon Sanderson. Loving his stuff.
What's the connection?
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
Explaining the joke:
Basically, The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan is a fantasy series that went on and on and on and eventually Robert Jordan died and yet the Wheel of Time had not finished. At which point Robert Jordan's estate hired Brandon Sanderson to finish it.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
I was put off these by the amount of graphic violence. Don't get me wrong, I have no objection to some violence - I like the Shadows of the Apt series by Adrian Tchaikovsky, for example - and I like some of GRRM's other stuff, but I just can't get into Game of Thrones.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Explaining the joke:
Basically, The Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan is a fantasy series that went on and on and on and eventually Robert Jordan died and yet the Wheel of Time had not finished. At which point Robert Jordan's estate hired Brandon Sanderson to finish it.
Ah. I.C. Thank you.
I'm kinda new to fantasy.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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marzipan
Shipmate
# 9442
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sllc:
quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
I was thinking the s ame thing re nudity! I'm reading the books and have seen the first series.
Yes, very well done, indeed!
I'm reading the books also but I've only had time to read the first three. Is it broadcast in UK?
It's on Sky Atlantic.
We watched the first series, I got bored of waiting for the second and read all the books, but Mr Marzipan refuses to read the books cos he'd rather not find out what's going to happen.
I like how you get more of the history/backstory in the books, which they don't have time to show on screen (as it would cut into the nudity-time).
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formerly cheesymarzipan.
Now containing 50% less cheese
Posts: 917 | From: nowhere in particular | Registered: May 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cheesymarzipan:
It's on Sky Atlantic.
Which I don't think I get without paying more. So I probably won't. Wait for the DVD time...
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680
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Posted
I read the book and thought "meh!" but then I still sat down in front of the TV series. I like the nudity but the story is still "meh!".
Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
I'm not sure the story is about "story" in the plot sense as a never-ending stage for the characters to wander around being themselves. Looked on as a plot its mostly "one damn thing after another". One of those braided epics.
Maybe it never does end. Though if the author wants to finish it quickly he could easily - he has issued so many Plot Vouchers that there are about a dozen characters who could easily cash one in to get a conclusion in the next volume (or five).
Also its kind of sort of funny. I suppose because its so reminiscent of so many other stories, without actually copying any. And he does put in the occasional blatant reference to something quite incongrous (tyhe first time I noticed him use the word "Dornishmen" I found myself with Trelawny as an earworm and I swear on the very next page someone says "fifty thousand Dornishmen" and I bet Martin had the same song in his mind even if he didn't know it) And because some of the characters are imaginary mediaeval people in an imaginary mediaeval world, others (such as Tyrion and Jon) seem to be modern people somehoiw stranded in it, which I suspect might be deliberate.
Peter and Susan and Edmund and Lucy go raping and pillaging in Helliconia. With a threatened Zombie apocalypse. Season with a hint of Jack Vance, a pinch of Poictesme to taste, a morsel of Morte D'Arthur (especially all that bloody jousting), a hefty handful of the Blackadder Shakespearean history, and a dose of the Anne MacCafferries. Wash down with the Black Wine of Thentis... and there you have it.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Peter and Susan and Edmund and Lucy go raping and pillaging in Helliconia. With a threatened Zombie apocalypse. Season with a hint of Jack Vance, a pinch of Poictesme to taste, a morsel of Morte D'Arthur (especially all that bloody jousting), a hefty handful of the Blackadder Shakespearean history, and a dose of the Anne MacCafferries. Wash down with the Black Wine of Thentis... and there you have it.
Absolutely spot on, ken! This made me giggle as I read it.
Even so, I have to admit to enjoying ASOIAF lots. And yes, I pre-ordered the first season of the show on Blu-Ray; I am a sucker. But I loved it!
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
Well, I'm way behind in the reading department. My only time to read fun stuff is when I go to bed, so sometimes I read a chapter. Or two! Most of the time I'm lucky to read a page before my eyes slam shut. (And the second they do, I'm dreaming and the book starts to go my way!) ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Daughter-Unit owns the five books, so I am borrowing hers. When she was helping me out two weeks ago, she said: "It's too bad so-and-so had to die."
What???!!
"Oh, I thought you would have read that part already."
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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sllc
Shipmate
# 12707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sllc:
I'm hooked on Game of Thrones. Does anybody here watch it? I could do with a lot less nudity but other than that it's really well done.
I'm happy to note that there was no nudity in this week's episode. Maybe HBO is listening.
Posts: 179 | From: Atlanta, GA USA | Registered: Jun 2007
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sllc:
quote:
Originally posted by sllc:
I'm hooked on Game of Thrones. Does anybody here watch it? I could do with a lot less nudity but other than that it's really well done.
I'm happy to note that there was no nudity in this week's episode. Maybe HBO is listening.
This week was refreshing, but I'm just assuming next week twice as many people will have their clothes off just so HBO can make its quota.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Just started to watch this; caught up with series 1 on Sky Anytime+.
I'm hooked. The violence and the sex are I guess pushing the boundaries, but the storylines are very strong, and the characters (particularly the nasty ones) compelling. Must get the books.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
I got the DVDs of the first series. Saw the first episode last night.
I like the way the northerners all have northern accents - genuine ones as well - and the southerners have southern accents. Apart from King Robert who has a northern accent despite being a southerner.
I wonder how many of the original US audience got that, or do the accents all sound equally funny too them?
And rather oddly even the American actors seem to be using British accents. or partly so. Not that I mind.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
And rather oddly even the American actors seem to be using British accents. or partly so. Not that I mind.
I take that back - it seems the ones I thought were American are all Irish or Australian. One of them is Danish. Only exception the bloke who plays Tyrion. Should have checked first. Maybe there are no Americans in big parts in the first few spisodes? Or at al?
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Apparently, Jack Gleeson, who plays the sadistic boy-king Joffrey, is studying theology and philosophy at Trinity College Dublin. Peter Dinklage is mesmerising as the dwarf Tyrion, has won an Emmy and a Golden Globe for his performance. I'm not surprised. Lots of other tasty characters.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
I got the DVDs of the first series. Saw the first episode last night.
I like the way the northerners all have northern accents - genuine ones as well - and the southerners have southern accents. Apart from King Robert who has a northern accent despite being a southerner.
I wonder how many of the original US audience got that, or do the accents all sound equally funny too them?
I caught it and thought it was a nice way to convey verisimilitude--especially considering that Westeros is Britain, more or less.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Alex Cockell
Ship’s penguin
# 7487
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Posted
Being a Freeview-only viewer, I'm watching at DVD pace.
Posts: 2146 | From: Reading, Berkshire UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
I got bored by book 1, and by episode 1, even though loads of friends are urging me to try again. Mind you, one mate shares my view abiout it being boring, and is only watching it for the nudity!
If you REALLY want nudity, I suggest you watch "Spartacus". Good Lord! Almost every episode has full-on, full-tilt boobs, penises, butts, etc. That show has more sex scenes than I've ever seen! Apparently, those Romans like to f*ck everything!
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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.
Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
I watched one episode on HBO but never really got into it: perhaps I would if I read the books!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
I've read all five books, currently spend time reading discussion and theories crackpot or not on westeros.org, and follow a number of #FakeWesteros accounts on Twitter.
Currently rereading book 4 after my BFF finished it. (Comet, book 5 is the worst in the series IMO. Editor, please!)
I don't have any cable, much less HBO, so I have only seen the first series thru generous friends. Hoping that I can find some for series 2.
The added sexing-it-up scenes (*) really make me roll my eyes. Oh HBO. I hear it gets worse in S2. But in general, I think the series is very well done. The ensemble acting is great and oh my God, Dinklage. It didn't take me too long to get over the "this guy is way too handsome to play Tyrion", because he is just.that.good.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
Forgot to add the footnote: there's plenty of sex in the books, of course, but lots of "additions" appear to have made it into the adaptation.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
I got the DVDs of the first series. Saw the first episode last night.
I like the way the northerners all have northern accents - genuine ones as well - and the southerners have southern accents. Apart from King Robert who has a northern accent despite being a southerner.
I wonder how many of the original US audience got that, or do the accents all sound equally funny too them?
And rather oddly even the American actors seem to be using British accents. or partly so. Not that I mind.
On the Westeros board, a number of British people definitely seem to mind Dinklage's adopted accent. It sounds like a perfectly servicable Transatlantic to me. Also, when Dinklage "slips", he slips in the direction of his regular nicely polished US-Standard locution, which is fine by me but may jar cross-pond.
This particular Yankee doodle dandy used to live in Brum and go to uni with a lot of Northerners, so was delighted to hear the Ooop North accents. (MY particular transatlantic had a lot of the North in it.) I am told that basically the (adult) "Northern" actors were told to sound as much like Sean Bean as they could manage. How many other American watchers recognized this depends on their familiarity with British regional accents, of course.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I have been a Dinklage fan since I saw him in "Living in Oblivion." The man has that special something.
Show overload-- I haven't caught up with this one yet, but all my friends are raving about it. Maybe Team NoCal can set up a marathon party.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I have been a Dinklage fan since I saw him in "Living in Oblivion." The man has that special something.
I'd never seen him before Game of Thrones, but you're absolutely right. Star quality, presence, coupled with great ability.
Jason Momoa (Stargate Atlantis) had an interesting cameo role in series 1 - but they killed off his character. He's got presence as well - not sure he can act, however.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I. LOVED. that. film. Dinklage was absolutely masterful in it.
And yeah, Barnabas, Presence was the word that leapt to mind.
[ 12. May 2012, 23:03: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Jason Momoa (Stargate Atlantis) had an interesting cameo role in series 1 - but they killed off his character. He's got presence as well - not sure he can act, however.
I think he did very well, especially since he was acting in a totally made-up language. A bit HULK SMASH, but that's true to the source material.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Probably the Ronon Dex monosyllabic, "Chewy", destroyer effect, Amazing Grace.
I think Joffrey deserves the golden crown treatment, BTW.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Jason Momoa had an interesting cameo role in series 1 - but they killed off his character.
Are there any characters in Game of Thrones that haven't been killed off?
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Well, I haven't read any of the "Game of Thrones" books. But I think "Spartacus" is the epic within which there is a cull of most of the characters at the end of each series. Heads rolling, axe-splitting, disembowelling, jumping off cliffs with babes in arms etc. Real heart-warming stuff .. not.
Mind you, there is a fair bit of character assassination going on in "Game of Thrones". As well as the more obvious killing.
Nostalgia about times when life was nasty, brutish and short? More likely a fascination with Grand Guignol, I think.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Jason Momoa had an interesting cameo role in series 1 - but they killed off his character.
Are there any characters in Game of Thrones that haven't been killed off?
After you get used to GRRM's willingness to ruthlessly kill off major characters in the first two books, it actually becomes surprising how many are left alive in the later books. He's very fond of the fake-out death -- ending a scene, or even a book, with the impression that a character has died, only to bring him/her back (not really dead! or, not all that dead!) some time later. We haven't seen any of those fake-outs yet in the TV series, and there's [SPOILER] at least one more round of really really shocking actual deaths to come (not sure if that will be this season or next in the TV world) ... but he does manage to keep enough people alive to move the story forward.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
From the TV point of view, I suppose story series which regularly kill off major characters have the great advantage of keeping down star salary costs!
If Tyrion gets the chop, don't tell me ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
After you get used to GRRM's willingness to ruthlessly kill off major characters in the first two books, it actually becomes surprising how many are left alive in the later books.
I don't think there is a very high kill rate of major characters at all. The death rate per page is less than Tolkien or CS Lewis! Its just there are a lot more pages.
I'm not sure he gets rid of any point-of-view characters at all. And he certainly adds quite a few. So there are more and more of them as the books go on. Someone said there were 37 by now - I have never counted!
The TV series is more compressed of course, but still nothing like as ready to kill of characters as, say, The Wire was.
quote:
He's very fond of the fake-out death -- ending a scene, or even a book, with the impression that a character has died, only to bring him/her back (not really dead! or, not all that dead!) some time later.
Very. Sometimes twice to the same character. I'm not completely sure but I think its a clue that if the death is described from the point of view of the character who is dying, they aren't dead really
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
OK, I counted. Well, actyually I copied a list from Wikipedia - DON'T read the Wiki article if you haven't read all the books - LOADS of spoilers!
They list 31 point-of-view characters from all the books so far.
Of those characters, thirteen played a major part in the action of the first book (and the first TV series), though only eight of them were POV in that book. Another couple are in the first book/series but in minor roles, and they don't become prominent later. The rest are new people you haven't met yet if you have only seen the first TV series.
Four of them are quite minor character who only turn up in a sort of prologue, and either vanish from the action after that or end up very definitely dead. (GRRM seems to kill off the first person we meet in a lot of his novels. John Le Carre does as well)
But of the 25 or so major characters who have POV chapters only one, I think, is definetely dead by the end of the seventh book (which is the end of the fifth novel, because two of them are published in two parts) There are another three who might possibly be dead - but as noted above GRRM also has a tendency to bring them back.
Compare that to The Hobbit which killed off two out of the fourteen major characters in less than half as many pages as one of the seven volumes here. Or to The Lord of the Rings Depending how you count there are maybe twenty to thirty major characters. At least three of them are definitely dead at the end, and Gandalf does the apparently dead but coming back thing. Much higher kill rate!
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Trudy Scrumptious:
After you get used to GRRM's willingness to ruthlessly kill off major characters in the first two books, it actually becomes surprising how many are left alive in the later books.
I don't think there is a very high kill rate of major characters at all. The death rate per page is less than Tolkien or CS Lewis! Its just there are a lot more pages.
I think it's more that there are characters, like
[SPOILER, though most everyone knows this by now]
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Ned Stark in the first book, that we have become quite used to think of as "major characters," and whose deaths are huge game-changers for the story, that another writer might be more likely to protect. I think it's really Ned's death that gets GRRM that reputation ... that and, maybe, the Red Wedding (I hope even naming it that is not too much of a spoiler). In both cases I think a lot of readers (and viewers in the case of Ned in S1) come into the scene thinking, "Well, of course they're NOT actually going to kill ... no, they couldn't possible, there'll be a last-minute reprieve ... oh SHIT!!!!"
Really, having established his ruthless reputation with those two events, GRRM is otherwise pretty protective of major characters. But with the comparison to Tolkein, I would have to say that for a lot of readers and viewers, Ned Stark's death in the first book (and first season of the series) would be equivalent to having Aragorn, rather than Boromir, die at the end of Fellowship of the Ring. We've invested a lot in getting to know this guy and seeing him as a hero/leader and now you just chop his head off and the story goes on without him? SERIOUSLY???
Likewise with what's still to come for the TV series viewers ... even moreso, I think, than for readers because the TV series seems to be geting viewers more invested in that particular character than the books did. Or maybe that's just pretty-actor syndrome at work (on my part as a viewer).
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
Posts: 7428 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004
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Antisocial Alto
Shipmate
# 13810
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Posted
SPOILERS
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In both cases I think a lot of readers (and viewers in the case of Ned in S1) come into the scene thinking, "Well, of course they're NOT actually going to kill ... no, they couldn't possible, there'll be a last-minute reprieve ... oh SHIT!!!!"
My family had already read the books. We watched the first TV series with a teenage friend who hadn't. By the third or fourth episode he had already guessed that Ned was going to die, because "Sean Bean dies in everything". :-)
Posts: 601 | From: United States | Registered: Jun 2008
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
I think Joffrey deserves the golden crown treatment, BTW.
MMmmm, mmmm, you aren't alone in that. A fitting and proper reaction, IMO.
He's written even worse in the tv show than he comes across in the books - I guess since they decided to age up the young'uns, they decided to make some of Cersei's horrific actions Joff's idea.
Hopefully the young man doing such a fine job acting him doesn't get people hissing at him on the street. Oddly enough Lena Headey (Cersei) does, even when she is not wearing her blonde wig.
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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