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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Strike while the iron's hot
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shamwari
Shipmate
# 15556
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Posted
Is anybody else appalled at the threat by some unions to strike during thye Olympic period and bring chaos to airport and transport systems?
Especially when a strike ballot gets a less than 10% response in favour.
Or is this just another example of the selfish greed of an effluent society (spelling intentional) regardless.?
Posts: 1914 | From: from the abyss of misunderstanding | Registered: Mar 2010
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Is anybody else appalled that a private firm will keep £57m (that's FIFTY SEVEN MILLION) In management fee for failing to deliver on a contract? And wondered how The Uk Borders Agency can simultaneously lay off 1000 workers and hire extra people/ increase overtime in order to meet its workload?
ETA: what is the point of a strike which inconveniences no one?
[ 19. July 2012, 21:11: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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chive
Ship's nude
# 208
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Posted
I voted yes for this strike and I intend to be on the picket line. To make staff redundant and then take them back on nine months later and pay more money then we get is wrong and stupid. To give staff three days training, instead of the 10 weeks we got, and then expect them to do the job properly is wrong and stupid. To introduce new terms and conditions that lead to greater inefficiencies and longer queues is wrong and stupid. To privatise services when we've just seen how competent private firms can be is wrong and stupid. To introduce expensive IT systems that don't work and then insist that staff use them is wrong and stupid. To intoduce performance moderation systems like this is wrong and stupid. To introduce sickness policies that don't take into account the fact that staff may have serious medical conditions is wrong and stupid.
Every single one of these things has been raised by the unions with management and politicians again and again and again. Neither management or politicians have any interest in resolving any of these issues. They want to make political capital out of our jobs. Can you name me a week in the last year where the politicians and management haven't been shown in the press how incompetent and stupid they are in this area of law and practice? I can't.
We have reached the point that we literally have nowhere else to go. The reason why there was a low turnout on this ballot, compared with previous ones, was that if you voted yes, yes in this ballot it would involve a levy on union members. With a significant reduction in real time income for members, a lot of people couldn't afford a levy. I think the PCS made an error in asking for one but I can understand why they did.
We are striking next week not to disrupt the olympics but to try and plead with the goverment and managers to bloody talk to us for once.
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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
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Jigsaw
Shipmate
# 11433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by shamwari:
Is anybody else appalled at the threat by some unions to strike during thye Olympic period and bring chaos to airport and transport systems?
If you mean the Border Agency staff who are PCS Union members, then no, I'm not appalled. Chive has expressed their concerns perfectly and gave a reason why the vote for strike action was so low - which wasn't brought out in the news bulletins this evening.
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You are not alone in this.
Posts: 743 | From: Snorbens, UK | Registered: May 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Is anybody even mildly surprised when an enterprise pays the lowest wages possible? Where's the responsibility in doing that and expecting the government, that's the taxpayer to you and me, to top it up to a living wage? On top of that they charge the highest prices possible and only provide goods or services when it is profitable to do so.
The typical private-sector employer, and some public sector ones too, has the social responsibility of a sewer rat (other forms of vermin are available). No wonder employees are disaffected and, just occasionally, have to strike or work to rule.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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hilaryg
Shipmate
# 11690
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Posted
Your reasons sound perfectly logical chive, and I hope there is some movement towards getting your situation sorted out.
Unfotunately the message doesn't seem to be coming through the media and even The guardian talks vaguely about "erosion of pay and working conditions" as the reasons for the action. Given the majority of both private and public workers have suffered those recently, it doesn't raise much sympathy in those of us who have only read the headlines up to now. I suppose outrage and the Olympics is better copy.
My experience of arriving in the UK is never as bad as arriving in the USA (try a couple of hours at Washington Dulles on a hot afternoon just after the plane from Dhakar has arrived with only a quarter of the desks open), so the "horror" stories recently about queues at heathrow need putting in context. However It's clear to even the most sleep challenged travellers that the border services on both sides of the atlantic are both woefully underfunded and yet under pressure, and first to get the blame if the "wrong" person gets in.
Posts: 261 | From: back home in England | Registered: Jul 2006
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by yellowroom:
... Unfotunately the message doesn't seem to be coming through the media and even The guardian talks vaguely about "erosion of pay and working conditions" as the reasons for the action. Given the majority of both private and public workers have suffered those recently, it doesn't raise much sympathy in those of us who have only read the headlines up to now....
That's because the media are not capable / willing to present the issues in the detail that e.g. chive posted above. It has to be simplified to "greedy lazy union workers who have it so much better than us." To which I reply: Well, duh - unionize. Collective bargaining is always about far more than money. And FYI, union folks are getting laid off too these days. OliviaG
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
Look, I'm an anglophile, but the British seem to really suck at the Olympics. This might be the worst one ever.
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Look, I'm an anglophile, but the British seem to really suck at the Olympics. This might be the worst one ever.
With ant luck we won't ever see another one.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
It sounds like the obvious time to strike to me, when it will have most effect.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Unreformed
Shipmate
# 17203
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Look, I'm an anglophile, but the British seem to really suck at the Olympics. This might be the worst one ever.
With any luck we won't ever see another one.
The seizure-inducing logo animation was a rather bad omen in retrospect.
Posts: 246 | From: Richmond, VA | Registered: Jul 2012
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
It doesn't make the UK government look mean. It makes trade unionism look mean.
I've been on strike on a number of occasions over pay and conditions, so I've got no objections in principle. In practice, these actions look likely to boomerang, alienate. Even if they produce some short term bargaining gain, I doubt their value.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
I agree. I am pro-Union and, goodness knows, they have a lot to be concerned about. But this action will hardly advance their case in the long-term - unless it is really just a shot across the bows, born of huge frustration, saying, "for goodness' sake, listen!"
And, as the OP suggests, only 20% of PCS members voted at all, with only 57% of those voting in favour of strike action. As in some referenda (or even church business meetings!) one does wonder if some sort of "quorum" or minimum percentage should be required to make any such vote valid, because clearly nearly 90% of members did not vote "for" industrial action.
Mind you, I do take all Chive's points upthread. There does seem to be - once again - a manic drive to reduce costs and expertise through privatisation, linked to a demorlalising anti-public sector rhetoric.
[ 20. July 2012, 07:51: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Look, I'm an anglophile, but the British seem to really suck at the Olympics. This might be the worst one ever.
With ant luck we won't ever see another one.
Funny thing - I keep thinking that with any luck all the anti-Olympic sods will fall under the same bus.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I don't feel appalled at all. Many workers today are seeing wages cut, conditions worsened, while the management try to increase profits, which of course, is their legal duty.
So what are the workers supposed to do? Write to their MP? Don't make me laugh.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Look, I'm an anglophile, but the British seem to really suck at the Olympics. This might be the worst one ever.
Shall we discuss Atlanta now or afterwards? Montreal was a disaster for the people of Montreal.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Look, I'm an anglophile, but the British seem to really suck at the Olympics. This might be the worst one ever.
With ant luck we won't ever see another one.
Funny thing - I keep thinking that with any luck all the anti-Olympic sods will fall under the same bus.
It's not people enjoying and competing in sport that I object to it's the way the event is being handled that I find obscene.
There’s a rescission. The NHS is dying. People’s benefits are being cut. We cannot afford to host these games.
Like football it’s not about sport any more it’s about money. Corporations getting sponsorship deals and being allowed to enforce 1984 style laws about what brands people are allowed to be seen consuming.
Missiles on roof tops for crying out loud.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
No point going on strike if it has no effect. Maximum disruption = maximum negotiating strength.
I have long argued for one teaching union so that our strikes would actually have some teeth.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
There’s a rescission. The NHS is dying. People’s benefits are being cut. We cannot afford to host these games.
We've already paid, so it's a bit late to say that. It's not like the government can just cancel them at the last minute and get their money back.
quote:
Like football it’s not about sport any more it’s about money. Corporations getting sponsorship deals and being allowed to enforce 1984 style laws about what brands people are allowed to be seen consuming.
There's a separate Hell thread about that rot. You appear to be falling for the anti-IOC spin hook, line and sinker.
quote:
Missiles on roof tops for crying out loud.
You would prefer, perhaps, a terrorist attack?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
[QUOTE]You would prefer, perhaps, a terrorist attack?
If the organizers can't see a way of holding an event without missiles then I would prefer them to say it's obviously impractical to hold this event.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Oh, great, so you'd rather we caved in to terrorists and didn't host the Olympics because of fear of terrorism?
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
There’s a rescission. The NHS is dying. People’s benefits are being cut. We cannot afford to host these games.
Like football it’s not about sport any more it’s about money. Corporations getting sponsorship deals and being allowed to enforce 1984 style laws about what brands people are allowed to be seen consuming.
It's a bit difficult to get out of recession and help pay for the Olympics if you're not going to allow people to make money out of the Games! There's more than a bit of cognitive dissonance between your two paragraphs...
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Oh, great, so you'd rather we caved in to terrorists and didn't host the Olympics because of fear of terrorism?
I'll reply in Hell so as not to derail.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Ok, see you there
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
No point going on strike if it has no effect. Maximum disruption = maximum negotiating strength.
I have long argued for one teaching union so that our strikes would actually have some teeth.
The public will not support a strike that affects their movements and inconveniences them.
I wonder how much the leader of the union involved gets paid. Anyone know?.
[ 20. July 2012, 11:17: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
former ASLEF General Secretary Keith Norman (until 5th December 2011) received in 11 months:
Salary of £121,569 + employers pension contributions, £28,974 and accommodation, £17,023
Nice work if you can get it.
East Midlands train drivers - the ones who are going on strike:
Basic salary (before overtime etc) of £36,461 for a 4 day week, working 35 hours.
Get a life!
You have no grievance worth speaking of.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
former ASLEF General Secretary Keith Norman (until 5th December 2011) received in 11 months:
Salary of £121,569 + employers pension contributions, £28,974 and accommodation, £17,023
Nice work if you can get it.
East Midlands train drivers - the ones who are going on strike:
Basic salary (before overtime etc) of £36,461 for a 4 day week, working 35 hours.
Get a life!
You have no grievance worth speaking of.
You are not driving a train, sunshine. If you once, repeat, once go through a signal at danger, count yourself out of the job.
btw, union officers have to be high-calibre individuals. You don't get them for nothing. Compare their salary to that of the CEOs of the companies they negotiate with.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116
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Posted
A 35 hour, 4 day a week train driver is not risking his easy life, sunshine.
A private soldier in Afghanistan is on £17,265 + £5,280 operational allowance.
Get shot at or blown to bits by a roadside bomb and you're more than out of a job.
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"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
The only personal experience of strikes that I have would be 1) the teachers' strike that led to all my kids and nephews being homeschooled -- wasn't a bad deal for us, though I doubt the teachers got much out of it -- and 2) the stint in the Midwestern meat plants the FG took, during the "oil bust" of the 80s.
He and the other "scab" labor came in to the shut-down meat processing plants and worked to Union standards for a while, then the Unions & Company settled whatever they were wrangling over, and Union workers came back in and... worked to Union standard. Not sure what was accomplished there, other than winning the Company a chance to shake off some bad employees the Union wouldn't let them fire.
All that, to say this: if people have grievances -- big fat splashy ones, going by chive's input -- and they strike, well, fine. Maybe they'll get somewhere. However, the days of a gritty determined public pulling sacrificially together to pull off a big event passed with the WWII era. The time to do it is during the Olympics if it's to garner the notice they want.
Meanwhile, the inevitable replacement people will be a mixed bag, some hopeless cases but also some great workers will arise from that group, despite the strikers' conviction that none could possibly do the job properly but the strikers.
Also meanwhile, many of the "public" caught up in the spectacle will simply see what they can do to opt out altogether.
At least that's what my limited personal experience tells me will happen.
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
It sounds like the obvious time to strike to me, when it will have most effect.
As long as it doesn't slow down those of us trying to escape the Olympics - Italy has never looked so inviting.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
A 35 hour, 4 day a week train driver is not risking his easy life, sunshine.
A private soldier in Afghanistan is on £17,265 + £5,280 operational allowance.
Get shot at or blown to bits by a roadside bomb and you're more than out of a job.
I never fail to be amazed by the people who say some poor sod is worse of off than me, therefore I have nothing to complain about - rather than suggesting that the poor sod against whom my life is being compared should be doing better.
It's not a race to the bottom, and I quite like the concept of well-rested, well-trained, well-paid train drivers. Especially (but not excluding) when I'm travelling by train.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
A 35 hour, 4 day a week train driver is not risking his easy life, sunshine.
Tell that to any train driver who hits a person or an animal on the line. Most of them never drive again. Easy life my arse.
quote:
A private soldier in Afghanistan is on £17,265 + £5,280 operational allowance.
Get shot at or blown to bits by a roadside bomb and you're more than out of a job.
Yeah, it's a shitty life in the army. Not a whole lot better in the other armed forces. No one ever said it wasn't. Quite why anyone joins is a mystery to me. If no one did, ministers wouldn't be able to choose which war to fight (and they wouldn't have an easy get-out when their private sector friends can't deliver a contract).
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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hilaryg
Shipmate
# 11690
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Unreformed:
Look, I'm an anglophile, but the British seem to really suck at the Olympics. This might be the worst one ever.
Think there's a long way to go before we descend to the events of the 1972 games.
It's the third time we've held them, it'll be fine. We're actually quite good at organising large sporting fixtures.
quote:
Originally posted by OliviaG:
That's because the media are not capable / willing to present the issues in the detail that e.g. chive posted above.
Well, of course, and I would expect the union PR folk to know that and be on the case more than is apparent. But if papers like the guardian arent discussing it in detail then there is something wrong. I would suggest at this point that the union is unfortunately steaming towards a huge own goal. I can already see the vox-pop interviews with delayed travellers who missed connecting flights and business meetings.
[ 20. July 2012, 12:43: Message edited by: yellowroom ]
Posts: 261 | From: back home in England | Registered: Jul 2006
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by yellowroom:
But if papers like the guardian arent discussing it in detail then there is something wrong.
Is it possible that The Guardian and its readers have an instinctive belief that UKBA staff are just jackbooted thugs whose main purpose is to hassle dark-skinned people with beards?
(Not saying they actually are - just that that's how The Guardian may see the world ...)
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
No point going on strike if it has no effect. Maximum disruption = maximum negotiating strength.
I have long argued for one teaching union so that our strikes would actually have some teeth.
As opposed to simply damaging the reputation of the teaching profession, as they do at the moment...
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boat Boy:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
No point going on strike if it has no effect. Maximum disruption = maximum negotiating strength.
I have long argued for one teaching union so that our strikes would actually have some teeth.
As opposed to simply damaging the reputation of the teaching profession, as they do at the moment...
Bollocks. If anything damages the teaching profession it is the constant vilification of it by rentamouth politicians, sensationalist reporting and knee-jerk changes by ministers, responding for 'something must be done'.
How about a) funding it adequately and b) leaving the structure and content of education alone?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Amen Sioni Sais - which they would have had to do if we'd had the sense to get organised when Thatcher began the destruction.
Shutting every school in the country would concentrate their minds nicely. Our childminding role is crucial to the economy.
(I just wish we were paid as much as childminders - with their hourly rate per child I'd be a millionaire by now, even after giving half back for overheads!)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
I'm sorry Sioni Sais, I can't agree. Yes, a constant change of policies under different governments is frustrating, but the teachers' pension scheme is still a very good one and the career is one of great opportunity. Others have much more to complain about.
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boat Boy:
Others have much more to complain about.
Yes, but that's not what unions are about. They're not about global fairness, they're about getting the most they possibly can for their members, and fuck the rest of us.
In that respect they're far more similar to the business leaders they despise than anyone else.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Amen Sioni Sais - which they would have had to do if we'd had the sense to get organised when Thatcher began the destruction.
Shutting every school in the country would concentrate their minds nicely. Our childminding role is crucial to the economy.
(I just wish we were paid as much as childminders - with their hourly rate per child I'd be a millionaire by now, even after giving half back for overheads!)
You really think that closing schools will turn people against the government rather than against the teachers and unions responsible?
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Originally posted by que sais-je:
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by M.:
It sounds like the obvious time to strike to me, when it will have most effect.
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As long as it doesn't slow down those of us trying to escape the Olympics - Italy has never looked so inviting.
Oh absolutely. Other places look inviting too. In fact, just about anywhere but London!
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais, re: the teaching profession:
... Bollocks... How about a) funding it adequately and b) leaving the structure and content of education alone?
That's one thing I'm hoping to accomplish in our next Presidential election.
Maybe we need the Olympics over here again soon to clarify people's minds.
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boat Boy:
You really think that closing schools will turn people against the government rather than against the teachers and unions responsible?
It's not about what people think of us. It's about effective industrial action - ie changing the minds of the employers. If we'd had one union years ago we'd have been able to have effective industrial action. Following that would be 99% less government interference and time wasting bureaucracy. This would result in teachers with the time and energy to do what they love = teaching children.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Boat Boy:
You really think that closing schools will turn people against the government rather than against the teachers and unions responsible?
It's not about what people think of us. It's about effective industrial action - ie changing the minds of the employers. If we'd had one union years ago we'd have been able to have effective industrial action. Following that would be 99% less government interference and time wasting bureaucracy. This would result in teachers with the time and energy to do what they love = teaching children.
Surely that's almost entirely conjecture? Also, surely the fact that the different unions remain indicates that they represent different views or elements of the education sector?
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Janine:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais, re: the teaching profession:
... Bollocks... How about a) funding it adequately and b) leaving the structure and content of education alone?
That's one thing I'm hoping to accomplish in our next Presidential election.
Maybe we need the Olympics over here again soon to clarify people's minds.
You're running for President? I'm impressed!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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chive
Ship's nude
# 208
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Posted
You might be interested in what Mark Serwotka, the leader of the PCS has to say. He's not exaggerating, if anything he's underplaying the problems we currently face.
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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
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Boat Boy
Shipmate
# 13050
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Posted
Again, I suspect that much of the public would be on the side of the government if they did strike then, as they would be the ones causing the disruption.
Think of the last teachers' strike - did it elicit any sympathy or public support? Not that I'm aware of.
Posts: 151 | From: The deep south (of the Home Counties) | Registered: Oct 2007
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hilaryg
Shipmate
# 11690
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chive:
You might be interested in what Mark Serwotka, the leader of the PCS has to say.
I'm convinced, but he's got an uphill battle to convince the public who only see the headlines and the low turnout on the vote. Particularly when the government seem to be going in to overdrive to paint you all as the bad guys, and the mainstream media (which does not include comment pieces on the Huff Post) don't seem to want to investigate further.
I'm out of the country, but have there been Panorama or similar telly programmes on the problems the Border Agency face? Anything at all that rationally discusses the issues?
Posts: 261 | From: back home in England | Registered: Jul 2006
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Mark Wuntoo
Shipmate
# 5673
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Posted
Whatever the union says, right or wrong, fact or fantasy, makes no difference whatsoever, ISTM.
The public reaction will be negative due to the timing. Isn't part of the reason for striking to do with gaining public opinion? Disruption to the Olympics (irrespective of what one thinks about the Games) and inconvenience to overseas visitors - it's a shot in the foot if the strike goes ahead.
Actually, I doubt that many union members will strike - it will be interesting to see!
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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.
Posts: 1950 | From: Somewhere else. | Registered: Mar 2004
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