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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: If the Yellowstone Caldera erupts...
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
The Yellowstone Caldera, sometimes known as a super-volcano, has apparently erupted at least 12 times in history, at one time blowing away an entire mountain range, to become as dust in the atmosphere.
While there appears to be no particular reason to expect such an event tomorrow before breakfast, there is also no particular reason not to expect such an event.
So, if such an explosion did occur, at Yellowstone or at the site of any other super-volcano, could the resulting debris in the atmosphere cause an ice age, with the sun blotted out over an entire hemisphere? For those who understand such things, why or why not?
What effect would such a cataclysmic event be likely to have on the faith of any human survivors?
[ 02. August 2012, 19:26: Message edited by: Silver Faux ]
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
The Yellowstone Caldera, sometimes known as a super-volcano, has apparently erupted at least 12 times in history, at one time blowing away an entire mountain range, to become as dust in the atmosphere.
A slight quibble, but I believe you mean that "[t]he Yellowstone Caldera . . . has apparently erupted at least 12 times in prehistory". According to the wiki article (caveat lector) the last magmatic eruption was 70,000 years ago, well before recorded history.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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tclune
Shipmate
# 7959
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
What effect would such a cataclysmic event be likely to have on the faith of any human survivors?
That's the spirit! Posit a global catastrophe and ask what it would do for Church growth...
--Tom Clune
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Posts: 8013 | From: Western MA | Registered: Jul 2004
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Applying your measure of logic, Crœsos, would it also be necessary to say that there has never, in all history, been an ice age?
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
Applying your measure of logic, Crœsos, would it also be necessary to say that there has never, in all history, been an ice age?
You could indeed claim that all Ice Ages were prehistoric. Most people do, in fact.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Holy Smoke
Shipmate
# 14866
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
The Yellowstone Caldera, sometimes known as a super-volcano, has apparently erupted at least 12 times in history, at one time blowing away an entire mountain range, to become as dust in the atmosphere.
A slight quibble, but I believe you mean that "[t]he Yellowstone Caldera . . . has apparently erupted at least 12 times in prehistory". According to the wiki article (caveat lector) the last magmatic eruption was 70,000 years ago, well before recorded history.
Surely from the context it is obvious that Silver Faux was referring to geological history; geological pre-history would refer to that time prior to the creation of the planet, when there obviously wouldn't be any volcanoes there to erupt.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
That's right, post a scare scenario, where the worst thing that could happen if Yellowstone is what will happen.
Why not have La Palma in the Canary island erupting, splitting in two and setting up a tsunami that will wipe out the east coast of the USA. Or a massive earthquake on the San Andreas plunging much of California into the Pacific.
If you really want to scare you could have all three at the same size.
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Why then, O Crœsos, are there surviving glaciers and ice packs from such events, to cause fear of floods should the effects of global climate change cause them to melt?
It appears to me that you are using the term "history" in a manner diferant from that intended in the OP; changing the mean of a term as a form of argumentation, it seems to me, is one of the definitions of false argumentation.
Although, you may well be right, I suppose.
Just what does your argumentation have to do with the premise of the OP, however?
[ 02. August 2012, 19:52: Message edited by: Silver Faux ]
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
...at the same time. Not size.
Posting and watching TV. That'll learn me.
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Bugger! I did an edit to improve my spelling, and actually made it worse! As well as cross-posting with Holy Smoke, whose name makes an ironic contribution to this thread.
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
Let us at least pretend to deal with the original question.
Suppose the Yellowstone caldera, a "supervolcano", does erupt at some point. As relatively few people live in the immediate vicinity, it is likely that the casualty list would not be too large at first. It is likely that most of the U.S. east of Wyoming (and to some extent in all directions) would be very seriously damaged by the fall of ash. There would be plenty of asthma, and plenty of expense to clean it up. The farmland would probably be useless for some time. Food might be expensive and/of scarce for some time.
To some lesser extent, the effects would be felt around the world. We might indeed have a year without summer, or more than one.
I expect there would be plenty of survivors. How would their faith be affected?
(a) Those who never had faith would still mostly have none.
(b) Those with strong faith would still have it, perhaps strengthened.
(c) Various people would be thinking or speaking of the end of the world. Some would be hoping for it. Some would be terrified.
(d) A few people would think back to Noah and the Flood.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Holy Smoke
Shipmate
# 14866
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Silver Faux:
...cross-posting with Holy Smoke, whose name makes an ironic contribution to this thread.
The irony is purely unintentional. Going back to your original question, I think the effect on peoples' faith would depend on the scale of the disaster. If it were a calamity on a global scale, then it would certainly lead to a serious diminution in faith, at least in Christian faith, and would put paid to the absurd idea that God somehow 'loves' us. If, however, the event merely wiped out the entire USA, then I think it would have the opposite effect, and most of the World's population would feel that God was Good, and that their prayers had been answered. The problem for God, however, is devising a suitable disaster which would punish the citizens of the United States, without causing too much collateral damage to other countries (I am assuming that Canada is more or less dispensable in this situation - I'm sure God would, anyhow) None of the ideas proposed so far - volcanoes, tsunami, etc. - would seem to fit the bill.
I shall keep praying.
Posts: 335 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2009
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
If I remember right, when Babylon was laying siege to Jerusalem, and the Israelites thought the world was going to end, Jeremiah bought a plot of land outside of Jerusalem.
Luther was once asked if he knew the world was going to end tomorrow, what would he do. He replied he would plant a tree (and expect it to eventually produce fruit).
For the time being, the caldera was not erupted, while there have been some changes in the caldera, they have not be significant enough to raise any alarm. To speculate on what may happen when it erupts is pointless.
Take one day at a time. Didn't Jesus say something about worrying?
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
An eruption at Yellowstone would not be an extinction-level event. Depending on the style of eruption, it would cause various catagories of local devastation, national disaster and international disruption.
In a worst-case scenario (replicating Yellowstone's previous biggest ever eruption), ash would blanket the central US from Rockies to Appalachians, and enough debris and gas launched into the stratosphere to cool the Earth by several degrees for the better part of a decade. Immediate deaths would be in the millions to tens of millions. The US would resemble the world of Judge Dread, with two cities on opposite coasts...
Global death toll through starvation and shifts in weather patterns would be hundreds of millions plus. It's not like we don't have the data to accurately predict what would happen, or lack the foreknowledge to know that it will happen.
Why do you ask?
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Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I guess one could ask if the effect of a super vulcano on faith would be different from that of the world wars or the tsunamis.
Go talk to some Japanese and report back.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
To speculate on what may happen when it erupts is pointless.
Ooh. How wrong you are.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Global death toll through starvation and shifts in weather patterns would be hundreds of millions plus. It's not like we don't have the data to accurately predict what would happen, or lack the foreknowledge to know that it will happen.
Why do you ask?
Well, who else was going to ask?
After all, if we don't prepare, how can we hope to respond?
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
For a large-scale supereruption, there really is nothing much you can do to prepare. The last such supereruption on the scale that Yellowstone could produce was the Lake Toba eruption, which some believe almost wiped out Homo sapiens, at least according to genetic studies. Whether it would blow at that intensity can only be speculation.
Unless of course you think that moving out of N. America and laying in supplies for a minimum 10-year nuclear winter might help.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
If Yellowstone erupts we'll all be dead. The people of the American upper Midwest will be lucky enough to be killed right away. The rest of us will probably starve to death.
But the world probably won't end that way. It'll probably just get worse and worse, and we'll be stuck in it.
[ 02. August 2012, 22:15: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
Or a massive earthquake on the San Andreas plunging much of California into the Pacific.
A massive earthquake on the San Andreas will not plunge California into the Pacific. The portion of California west of the fault will move north.
When this happens -- and it's when, not if -- not as many people will die as you would think, because of how we build around here. But some will die, and many thousands will be injured, and the damage to the infrastructure and thus to the regional economy will be enormous. I'm sure there will be a drag on the US economy and even on the global economy, as California's economy is the eighth largest in the world. See the US Geological Service scenario here.
I don't know if it's worth spending a lot of time and energy preparing for an eruption of the Yellowstone caldera, but it most certainly makes sense to prepare for a huge earthquake in California.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
There are lots of more likely catastrophes much more likely to happen. The most recent one was the destruction of New Orleans- I remember seeing that one on a documentary about disasters like a decade before the fact.
Apparently a violent eruption of Mt Vesuvius could wipe out Naples. Or an earthquake could cause a catastrophic collapse of the Three Gorges Dam in China. A direct hit by a hurricane could devastate New York City. Doom is everywhere.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Oh goodness, what a garbled post. That's what multi-tasking will do to you. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Garasu
Shipmate
# 17152
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Posted
So,to summarize: we're doomed. The precise mechanism to be determined...
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"Could I believe in the doctrine without believing in the deity?". - Modesitt, L. E., Jr., 1943- Imager.
Posts: 889 | From: Surrey Heath (England) | Registered: Jun 2012
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Mount St. Helens is relatively close to Yellowstone; some of you may remember that eruption. Some scientists estimate that an eruption of the Yellowstone caldera would be in the order of 10,000 times the size of the Mount St. Helens eruption, and that the lava flow would reach LA.
Google it.
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
Something's going to kill us sooner or later Silver Faux. Do they have "Always resuscitate" orders? I hope to go slowly and painfully, being a burden to my loved ones for as long as possible. Then I'm giving everything to the Church. Haw!
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
Something's going to kill us sooner or later Silver Faux. Then I'm giving everything to the Church.
Good, I'll PM the address of the one I serve! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Balaam:
Why not have La Palma in the Canary island erupting, splitting in two and setting up a tsunami that will wipe out the east coast of the USA. Or a massive earthquake on the San Andreas plunging much of California into the Pacific.
If you really want to scare you could have all three at the same size.
After perusing Wikipedia, I can offer you two out of three:
quote:
Further research shows that earthquakes from great distances do reach and have effects upon the activities at Yellowstone, such as the 1992 7.3 magnitude Landers earthquake in California’s Mojave Desert that triggered a swarm of quakes from more than 800 miles (1,300 km) away and the Denali fault earthquake 2,000 miles (3,200 km) away in Alaska that altered the activity of many geysers and hot springs for several months afterwards.[32]
The head of the Yellowstone Volcano Observatory, Jake Lowenstern, has proposed major upgrades and extended monitoring since the U.S. Geological Survey classified Yellowstone as a “high-threat” system.[33]
And because I can't help the sci-fi movie imagining: If Yellowstone blew up just the right amount, would it counter global warming? If climage change went too far, could scientists (preferably a gorgeous one and a sassy sidekick) make Yellowstone blow up on purpose and with the resulting ash cooling the planet make everything all right again?
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
And because I can't help the sci-fi movie imagining: If Yellowstone blew up just the right amount, would it counter global warming? If climage change went too far, could scientists (preferably a gorgeous one and a sassy sidekick) make Yellowstone blow up on purpose and with the resulting ash cooling the planet make everything all right again?
Geo-engineering on this scale is not to be recommended anywhere near a functioning eco-system.
Global warming is decades-gradual. Nuclear winter caused by megatonnes of crap in the upper atmosphere is instant. It's like saying "The front door's stuck. I know what'll shift it: this handy block of C4."
It'll shift the door just fine.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Point taken. (But I still think it would be a great popcorn flick.)
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
The Yellowstone Caldera is known to have deposited a layer of ash about 5cm / 2 inches deep as far away as Chicago. That's about the same that Portland, Oregon suffered when Mt. St. Helens erupted, and while transportation was affected for a while (you don't want to suck it into a motor, and that is a lot of cubic meters of rock to dispose of) the city recovered. The impacts may be worse in a large dense city such as Chicago due to the number of people needing food, etc., but the ash itself it probably wouldn't kill many people at that distance.
The plains and the Rocky Mountain states (and Canadian provinces) would bear the brunt of it, depending on the prevailing winds. Denver and Salt Lake City would probably be badly affected, while Minneapolis, Omaha, Wichita and Tulsa are likely to suffer due to the prevailing winds. The Pacific corridor (Seattle / Portland) might survive relatively unscathed due to wind patterns.
That will affect food production for several years to come: 5cm of ash probably could be plowed into the soil, depending on the chemical composition. Grain crops may survive the ash depending on the state of growth and whether or not the ash affects the processing equipment. But cattle won't be able to graze on short grass, and broadleaf crops may be crushed.
Will it affect religious beliefs? For some, perhaps, but not in any specific direction. I would expect that the first months will be a massive recovery mode, cleaning roads and equipment, and trying to deliver food, water, and necessary supplies. People tend to focus on working together to help others in such a time, though there are those who will take advantage of the situation for their own benefit.
The group that may be affected the most will be the LDS: on one hand, Salt Lake City may be severely damaged or destroyed, though I expect enough of the Elders will survive to maintain leadership. On the other hand, they emphasize preparedness, so Mormons will probably be better able to survive any shutoff of transportation, and likely will be in the forefront of emergency response. (They are expected to have a month's supply of food in their storeroom.)
I would expect to see a lot of fringe groups / "prophets" who are predicting the end of the world, and all the quirkiness that goes with it. In fact, it likely will bring out all sorts of extremists in various forms. Everybody will be stressed, and each will respond in their own way.
For some it may deepen their religious faith, other will find cause to question it. I don't think there will be any "standard" response.
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Point taken. (But I still think it would be a great popcorn flick.)
Nah, it was pretty awful, actually.
Having grown up in the shadow of the caldera and the San Andreas Fault (and now buying property where you can see Mt. St. Helens and several other volcanoes on a rare cloudless day), I know that the only thing you can do is hope for the best and expect the worst.
Hurricanes, however, scare the ever-loving crap out of me. You have to sit there for DAYS watching it come at you, bro.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
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Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Garasu:
So,to summarize: we're doomed. The precise mechanism to be determined...
No-one knows the day, the hour, or the precise method. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
under Yellowstone is a Discovery Channel sumary of a tv documentary. It also covers other super-volcanoes. One theory is that one in Siberia caused the mass extinction at the of the Permian era 250 million years ago. Another may have left a genetic trail where humanity was reduced to a population of a few thousand people tens of thousands of years ago.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
quote:
and the Denali fault earthquake 2,000 miles (3,200 km) away in Alaska that altered the activity of many geysers and hot springs for several months afterwards.[32]
ahh, good times. the liquor store essentially went kablooey and the employees were high on the fumes for days.
a propos of nothing (except perhaps, great visions of doom and disaster) they want to build what would be the 8th largest dam in the world just to the south of the epicenter of that bad boy. 'cause, you know, government knows what's best for us.
back to your disasters. I'll resume my ark building.
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
Did anyone see the TV programme on Yellowstone? It was very thorough and real scary, and Doc Tor has given a good summary of the likely consequences.
Our largest lake, Lake Taupo, bang in the middle of our most populated island, is a giant caldera, formed by one of the greatest geologically recorded eruptions about 26,500 years ago, when it ejected c. 1170 cubic km of material. It has erupted 28 times since then, the most recent being around 200 CE, when c. 100 cubic km was ejected.
It is regarded as dormant, not extinct.
Written in a spirit of emulation from Wellington, where we sit on known fault lines, and the slogan is 'Not if, but when'; and where every household is supposed to have its emergency plans and supplies for at least 3 days (but 3 weeks is more realistic).
Since religious faith is waning in many parts of the world, here as in a Yellowstone event it will be the signs of hope that strengthen faith: the discovery that people comfort and support one another, kindness and generosity abound, and self-sacrifice is not lacking. Yes, there will be ratbags taking advantage of the destruction but there will always be hope in dark places.
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
We´re IN an ice age.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
Since religious faith is waning in many parts of the world, here as in a Yellowstone event it will be the signs of hope that strengthen faith: the discovery that people comfort and support one another, kindness and generosity abound, and self-sacrifice is not lacking. Yes, there will be ratbags taking advantage of the destruction but there will always be hope in dark places.
GG
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
If it erupts I predict that some people will see it as proof that there is no God. Some will say God does not intervene. Some will say that God manifests himself through people rallying together to help and the remainder will blame it on the gays.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
and the remainder will blame it on the gays.
they are so incredibly powerful, who knew? I almost wish I could dig chicks; I'd be one volcano-making mofo.
"Dear God - if I kiss a girl, will you strike a few people with lightning for me? I have a little list..."
[ 03. August 2012, 11:11: Message edited by: comet ]
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Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spiffy:
Hurricanes, however, scare the ever-loving crap out of me. You have to sit there for DAYS watching it come at you, bro.
That is why I am glad that I experience the occasional hurricane rather than earthquakes or tornadoes. You have time to prepare--make sure you have plenty of batteries, fill containers with water if you have a well-pump, etc. Also, cancel any plans you may have had for the day the hurricane is expected to hit. I like to know what's coming; I hate nasty surprises.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
I asked Google what happens if Yellowstone blows and got This site which includes a map of the last 3 blows, a movie clip of a fictitious blow, and a video of a scientist of some sort interviewed on TV -- all accessed by scrolling down a bit thru the discussion, and on page 2 of the discussion a video from "Naked Science" by National Geographic, with scientists etc, discussing Yellowstone's past and potential eruption.
Which doesn't answer the faith question.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Let us at least pretend to deal with the original question.
(a) Those who never had faith would still mostly have none.
(b) Those with strong faith would still have it, perhaps strengthened.
(c) Various people would be thinking or speaking of the end of the world. Some would be hoping for it. Some would be terrified.
(d) A few people would think back to Noah and the Flood.
What would happen to the Internet? If it survives, then civilization will survive or is surviving.
If it does not, then the situation could be like that of the novel A Canticle for Leibowitz, with written material so scarce that those possessing any must keep it a secret. Due to their isolation, they have almost inevitably wildly misinterpreted what they have. The disaster would exacerbate the scarcity, of course, but we have already invited it. Traditional publishing is increasingly threatened by our turning to electronic sources. We don't stop to consider how fragile this makes our ability to stay informed, our ability to educate ourselves, perhaps our very literacy. If anything disrupts the Internet, all this would disappear instantly or at least be gravely threatened in short order.
Another science-fiction example that comes to mind is Robert Heinlein's Orphans of the Sky or Universe. In this story, a huge intergalactic space ship on a mission to colonize a distant planet met with an accident serious enough to disrupt the social structure of the passengers and crew. The result was that most of them began to read the ship's operating manuals metaphorically rather than literally. They believed that their ship was the entire universe. An entire religion arose around these manuals treated as sacred texts but absurdly misunderstood. Mechanically, the ship was still functioning marvelously on auto-pilot. But the bridge was deserted and only a few outcasts retained any knowledge of it or of the flight's mission. (I found it a little ironic that Heinlein, an atheist, seemed here to be pleading for fundamentalism.)
Another word we could use for this misunderstanding, in both cases, would be superstition. I'd envision a huge increase in it. The number with "no faith" (certainly as defined by Croesus et al, for whom all religious faith is superstition) would go down.
On the other hand, I wonder whether obsessions and compulsions lead inevitably to superstition. A third post-disaster novel comes to mind, much a more recent one, The Dewey Decimal System, by Larson. The hero is very obsessive-compulsive in a characteristically American way, and there is simply no other word for how he justifies these habits than superstition. Americans as a people are quite obsessive-compulsive already, probably becoming more so, and the wired lifestyle is a major cause. It could be that a rolling back of this tide, even if it's due to a major disaster, could have its benefits for mental health and clear thinking.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
and the remainder will blame it on the gays.
they are so incredibly powerful, who knew? I almost wish I could dig chicks; I'd be one volcano-making mofo.
"Dear God - if I kiss a girl, will you strike a few people with lightning for me? I have a little list..."
Haven't you heard? We already managed the Boxing Day tsunami to specifically target holidaying Swedes. A few lightning strikes just doesn't cut it.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Not to sound goody-two-shoes, orfeo, but those were real people who died by the hundred-thousands.
Of course, any disaster involves real people, but joking about that Boxing Day tragedy has an "ick factor" IMO
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Carex
Shipmate
# 9643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by comet:
...I have a little list..."
quote:
Men's chorus:
They'll none of 'em be miss'd.
Meanwhile, they've upped the probabilities for the next big quake in the Pacific Northwest. An 8.3 seems more likely than a 9.0, at least, but it gives us something else to think about.
(Geeky details here.)
Posts: 1425 | Registered: Jun 2005
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
I have recently read a book about the Yokohama earthquake of 1923. The author plausibly argues that this event de-stabilized Japanese society and politics to such an extent that it contributed substantially to World War 2.
There is a limit to how much a government can do in the face of an extreme catastrophe. People affected by the catastrophe can't see that, and the government is likely to be voted out of office or overthrown completely.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
I'm reasonably certain that the projected ash cloud covers most, if not all, the US's land-based ICBMs.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
Then no one would know the ash from a hole in the ground.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
It's one of many reasons I got the hell out of Idaho Falls...
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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