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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Who gets to choose the church building's name?
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HughWillRidmee
Shipmate
# 15614
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Posted
I appreciate that it may be necessary to differentiate between churches in the same vicinity, and that many towns have more than one church of similar flavour but why do some denominations seem happy with “Park Road XXXX Church” whilst others use names that take up most of the notice board – such as “The Church of the Holy and Undivided Trinity with Saint Jude”.
And, for those who do so, why All Saints rather than All Souls, Holy Apostles instead of Holy Trinity, St Dionis in preference to St Dionysius? Who gets to choose and why does it still happen when there has only ever been one Anglican/RCC/whatever church in the village?
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
My sis and brother-in-law are staying at the mo - last night he was telling me about a colleague (like S., a new-ish c-of-e vicar) who wanted to start a 'new expression of straight-to-evo anglicanism in the town centre of __', where previously such a thing had not existed (i.e. a new town).
The guy picked St Marks for a name, on the basis that most people would guess what it is - a straight-up Anglican church. Unlike (near me) the 'audacious city church' ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) - which might be anything but to me suggests an order of service out of 'Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure'.
His bishop apparently suggested the name 'St Paul's' (the guy's name is Paul) - which is either a deeply stupid invitation to start a personality cult, or evidence of a sense of humour as dry as dust...
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HughWillRidmee:
Who gets to choose
The person with the money. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Actually, church names come about in all sorts of different ways. Ones that are "Saint Something" aren't usually a random name, but actually claim the patronage of that saint - i.e. they are asking that that saint will pray for that parish/congregation before the throne of God. Or it might indicate a particular object of devotion - Holy Cross, Holy Trinity, The Annunciation (and Saint Something can come into this category). Sometimes it is the person with the money - IIRC, there's a parish in Newcastle whose rather odd dedication arises from the names of the sons of the people who paid for the church. Sometimes it's a point of churchmanship - All Souls is usually more "catholic" that All Saints - though this falls spectacularly to pieces with two parishes of those names north of Oxford Street in London. And when churches avoid any names like that at all, it's usually because their attitude to such things lies somewhere between mild unease and rummanging in the cupboard for the pitchforks and blazing torches.
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Sometimes it is the person with the money - IIRC, there's a parish in Newcastle whose rather odd dedication arises from the names of the sons of the people who paid for the church.
I believe the church of St Matthew and St James, in Mossley Hill, Liverpool, was named for just that reason!
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ElaineC
Shipmate
# 12244
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Posted
When I lived in Hastings, the church we worshipped at was in St. Saviour's road. St Saviour's being the name of the original, temporary, church building.
When the church was rebuilt it was renamed St Ethelburga as the wife of the main benefactor was called Ethel.
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
My old Anglican church was St George's. Rumour has it that the first rector was a retired English military man who grabbed the name with alacrity. And every rector since has regretted being saddled with a distinctly hazy figure rather than a good old fashioned Biblical saint.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
My own church is Holy Trinity with St Paul - the former parish of St Paul's being absorbed by it when that church was demolished for housing. A lot of churches now are X saint(s) with Y saint(s) for this reason.
Near my uni campus is a church called the Royal Diadem Assembly - makes me think of the Diadem of Ravenclaw of which they would undoubtedly disapprove.
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Graven Image
Shipmate
# 8755
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Posted
The Bishop has final say, but our congregation submitted the name to him along with the reason we selected it. He agreed with our choice.
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
Actually, its me. I have the final say in all church names.
I think there are a number of different reasons. Very often, it is the person with the money, but it is sometimes the person with the influence instead. Far too often, it is a committee, which probably explains some of the stupider names.
A lot of Anglican churches are named after a saint or saint with some connection to the foundation. Of course, this should mean that modern ones are names "St National Lottery".
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Some, of course, date from pre-Reformation times when it was often thought a good idea to name the church after a popular local saint (or even Christianized pagan deity), or the patron saint of a particular profession that the area might be known for.
Or need: the St Giles churches are often outside the old city walls, as St Giles was the patron saint of lepers, who weren't allowed within a town.
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
One of the joys of ministry in Wales or Cornwall is having patron saints whose history or even correct pronunciation are lost in obscurity.
One of my churches in Cornwall was dedicated in honour of a saint whose very gender was uncertain, let alone any fact of his/her history. My torture was to preach annually on his/her life on the Sunday nearest to the (possible) Feast.
Posts: 1426 | From: La France profonde | Registered: Aug 2008
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by HughWillRidmee:
Who gets to choose
The person with the money.
Actually, church names come about in all sorts of different ways. Ones that are "Saint Something" aren't usually a random name, but actually claim the patronage of that saint - i.e. they are asking that that saint will pray for that parish/congregation before the throne of God. Or it might indicate a particular object of devotion - Holy Cross, Holy Trinity, The Annunciation (and Saint Something can come into this category). Sometimes it is the person with the money - IIRC, there's a parish in Newcastle whose rather odd dedication arises from the names of the sons of the people who paid for the church. Sometimes it's a point of churchmanship - All Souls is usually more "catholic" that All Saints - though this falls spectacularly to pieces with two parishes of those names north of Oxford Street in London. And when churches avoid any names like that at all, it's usually because their attitude to such things lies somewhere between mild unease and rummanging in the cupboard for the pitchforks and blazing torches.
In the case of URC places (UK not US) it looks to be a rough rule of thumb that places with 'geographical' names were formerly congregational, while the various S. Whoever's (very often specifically Scottish examples like Andrew or Ninian, though one can find the odd more exotic specimen, such as S. Katherine of Genoa in Dunstable) had been presbyterian. However, I suspect that Jengie Jon may well dispute this. Given that presbyterians, at least in my experience, aren't generally enthusiastic about the concept of patron saints, I wonder how this came to be. Folk memory of pre-reformation practice carried south by expatriate Scots who were the founders of many presbyterian churches?
[ 25. October 2012, 21:22: Message edited by: Metapelagius ]
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
One of the joys of ministry in Wales or Cornwall is having patron saints whose history or even correct pronunciation are lost in obscurity.
One of my churches in Cornwall was dedicated in honour of a saint whose very gender was uncertain, let alone any fact of his/her history. My torture was to preach annually on his/her life on the Sunday nearest to the (possible) Feast.
Take as your text "In Christ there is neither male nor female" and you can demonstrate how well S. Whoever-it-was proved the point. As to his or her life, just follow the example of the mediaeval hagiographers who produced saints' lives in much the same way as Mills & Boon authors churn out formulaic romantic novels. They had a collection of stock grisly incidents, spectacular miracles and horrific deaths, a random selection of which could be cobbled together to make up the 'Vita Sancti Alicuius'.
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
There are a cluster of churches in central Edinburgh all named after Celtic saints: St Cuthbert's (Church of Scotland); St Columba's (Free Church); and St Columba's-by-the-Castle (Scottish Episcopal Church).
Such church names in Scotland usually date from the latter half of the 19th century, coinciding with the whole Celtic Twilight revival thingy. In effect, each of these three denominations was claiming to be the true descendant of the 'original' Celtic church. This was also a deliberate anti-Catholic gesture, as the Celtic church was claimed as the true early church in Scotland, before it was 'corrupted' by the legalistic Roman version.
So the choice of names here was both Romantic and highly political!
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
St Michael's churches are usually built on a hill.
There is a reason but I have forgotton why - I think it was something to do with being nearer heaven.. but feel free to correct me..
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Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
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Posted
Oops - doing my research after I posted, I discover that while the current building is late Victorian, St Cuthbert's is an ancient parish. My general point still stand, though!
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"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I once had a church judicatory tell me that any church named Peace was most likely the result of a church split. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
I know that in my own denomination, we choose the same dozen names again and again and again and WTF was that a different name? SWOON
I chalk it up to Lutherans being unimaginative.
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
quote:
Originally posted by Oferyas:
One of the joys of ministry in Wales or Cornwall is having patron saints whose history or even correct pronunciation are lost in obscurity.
One of my churches in Cornwall was dedicated in honour of a saint whose very gender was uncertain, let alone any fact of his/her history. My torture was to preach annually on his/her life on the Sunday nearest to the (possible) Feast.
Take as your text "In Christ there is neither male nor female" and you can demonstrate how well S. Whoever-it-was proved the point. As to his or her life, just follow the example of the mediaeval hagiographers who produced saints' lives in much the same way as Mills & Boon authors churn out formulaic romantic novels. They had a collection of stock grisly incidents, spectacular miracles and horrific deaths, a random selection of which could be cobbled together to make up the 'Vita Sancti Alicuius'.
This seeded my imagination, and I wish I had the skills to make it happen. What the Ship needs in a hagiography engine. Take the common elements in the multitudes of Lives of the Saints, invent exotic names, miracles, pieties, and martyrdoms. And saddle them with realms of patronage. It could be great. ![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
In the United Church of Canada:
St. Andrew's: Old Kirk
Chalmers, Westminster: Canada Presbyterian
Bethel, Shiloh, Trinity, other random placename, biblical or not: Methodist, it means it was a Preaching Point on a Circuit. Also Wesley or Ryerson, two very, very Methodist names.
We actually do have more than one St. Andrew's-Wesley or Chalmer-Wesley United Churches, due to mergers in subsequent decades. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
First whatever was often a Congregational name, as was a placename, but that's usually Methodist.
Post-war congregations that were never anything but United Church often have the name X-minster where X is any cardinal direction. Or Grace. Or St. Apostle's. Nicely generic for nicely generic suburbs.
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
I believe St Agnes with St Pancras, in Toxteth Park, Liverpool, was originally just St Agnes, until someone left the church a rather nice statue of St Pancras.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I believe St Agnes with St Pancras, in Toxteth Park, Liverpool, was originally just St Agnes, until someone left the church a rather nice statue of St Pancras.
Nice urban myth I think! Nearer the truth, IIRC, is that (possibly the gift of the statue led the priest to recall that) there used to be a mission church in the parish dedicated to St Pancras.
St Agnes, along with St Faith's and St Margaret's in the same city, was built and endowed by the wealthy Horsfalls (father and son) who named their churches after their daughters.
Am I right in thinking that the many English churches dedicated to St Anne are named, not in honour of God's granny, but the Queen of that name?
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
It would be very fitting if they were. Queen Anne was a good friend of the CofE.
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
In Virginia there are a very large number of Episcopal churches named Christ Church. They tend to be older than churches named for saints.
In New England I belonged to two churches. One was Church of Our Savior, and the other was Church of the Good Shepherd. Both of these names are, of course, the same type of name as Christ Church. Just a different way of referring to Jesus.
Moo
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Sometimes it can be a deliberate choice to NOT choose a Saint's name, or a deliberate choice to change the name to one more practical or obvious.
One church I know which was built after I was born was named 'The Church of the Holy Spirit' - the CofE congregation decided to do something different than use a saint's name, to mark it out from all the older churches in the area.
The other church is officially named 'Christ Church' but it's default name (used by the locals) is 'St. Asda's' as it is right next to the superstore. At least people then know exactly which one you are talking about!
A very ancient Creamtealand church has a very long name - for practical reasons usually shortened for ease of use. 'The Church of the Holy Cross and the Mother of Him who hung thereon' is rather a mouthful - it's easier to say 'Holy Cross' or 'Crediton Parish Church'.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
Sometimes it can be a deliberate choice to NOT choose a Saint's name, or a deliberate choice to change the name to one more practical or obvious.
One church I know which was built after I was born was named 'The Church of the Holy Spirit' - the CofE congregation decided to do something different than use a saint's name, to mark it out from all the older churches in the area.
The other church is officially named 'Christ Church' but its default name (used by the locals) is 'St. Asda's' as it is right next to the superstore. At least people then know exactly which one you are talking about!
A very ancient Creamtealand church has a very long name - for practical reasons usually shortened for ease of use. 'The Church of the Holy Cross and the Mother of Him who hung thereon' is rather a mouthful - it's easier to say 'Holy Cross' or 'Crediton Parish Church'.
[ 26. October 2012, 12:23: Message edited by: Chorister ]
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Edgeman
Shipmate
# 12867
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Posted
A new parish opened in our diocese last year named after St Rocco, not because of any particular devotion of the parish, but because one man paid for the entirety of the church and much of the other buildings of the parish. His first name was Rocco.
A similar thing happened with my own parish:We were originally St Mary Magdalene parish, but we became Our Lady of Lourdes when it was time to build the new church. A wealthy man volunteered to pay for much of it, but only if the name became Our Lady of Lourdes, to whom he had a particular devotion.
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
URC rules
- St Andrews - First Former Scottish Presbyterian church in the area. For English Presbyterians see Congregational.
- St Columba, St Ninian or other Celtic Saint, later former Presbyterian churches in the area (not necessarily the same branch of Scottish Presbyterianism)
- Zion, Bethel, Ebenezer etc former Congregational
- Wycliffe etc are equally former Congregational as was John Robinson Memorial (no longer known by that name).
- Christ Church usually former Churches of Christ
- Bill St usually former Congregational
- Little Digby on the Marsh (any tradition, most likely the village chapel, these are the most fluid of congregations many I think just happened to be Congregational at the time of merger, they could quite happily have been Baptist, Methodist or Presbyterian in that order).
- Trinity a merger of churches usually with three congregations or three tradiotions if a LEP
- Central - merger central church
- Grosvenor St Aidan, Wilbraham St Ninians a merger of two congregations one at least of which is Presbyterian.
As to who decides, the congregation do, so these rules are cultural rather than formal.
Jengie
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
One church I know which was built after I was born was named 'The Church of the Holy Spirit' - the CofE congregation decided to do something different than use a saint's name, to mark it out from all the older churches in the area.
There is a Church of the Holy Spirit in the Liverpool suburb appropriately named Dovecot.
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Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
One church I know which was built after I was born was named 'The Church of the Holy Spirit' - the CofE congregation decided to do something different than use a saint's name, to mark it out from all the older churches in the area.
There is a Church of the Holy Spirit in the Liverpool suburb appropriately named Dovecot.
Were these churches from the 1960s or 1970s? There are two churches in Grantham of that vintage called the Church of the Epiphany and the Church of the Ascension. Of the other Anglican churches in the town the two Victorian ones are the rather middle-of-the-road Anne and John the Evangelist. The mediaeval church is the almost-one-off and not-at-all-local St Wulfram.
Anglican churches called Emmanuel are usually long term evangelical.
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Custard
Shipmate
# 5402
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Posted
Some are for historical reasons - either association of that saint with that town, or the saint actually visited / founded / was buried at that church.
Or there's secondary historical reasons - the church was founded by monks from an abbey dedicated to St Mary, so they named the church after their monastery.
Urban legend says that the practice of dedicating a church to a saint dates back to the abolition of paganism. Temples to Artemis (for example) could be easily converted into churches dedicated to the nearest equivalent saint (Mary). Anyone know if that's true or not?
Most modern evangelical Anglican church plants seem to go for "Christ Church" or "Newtown Church" or something like that, probably to avoid the connotations of the cult of the saints.
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
Were these churches from the 1960s or 1970s? There are two churches in Grantham of that vintage called the Church of the Epiphany and the Church of the Ascension.
The Liverpool one is just pre-WW2 (1938).
It's strange that churches dedicated to the Holy Trinity are often fairly ancient, while those dedicated to Christ or the Holy Spirit (I don't know any 'Father' ones) are usually much more recent. Christ Church often signifies an evangelical church, although not always.
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
It's strange that churches dedicated to the Holy Trinity are often fairly ancient, while those dedicated to Christ or the Holy Spirit (I don't know any 'Father' ones) are usually much more recent. Christ Church often signifies an evangelical church, although not always.
I can't off the top of my head think of any pre-Reformation Christ Churches so maybe it does have some protestant anti-idolatry connotations, e.g. Christ Church Oxford replacing Cardinal College, or St Saviour (now Southwark Cathedral) instead of St Mary Overie. I wonder whether Canterbury Cathedral was rededicated as Christ Church when the secular canons replaced the cathedral priory?
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Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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Pre-cambrian
Shipmate
# 2055
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Posted
I also find it Quite Interesting when there are local variants on common dedications. E.g. there are ancient All Saintses all over the country but in the City of London the name All Hallows was/is used instead.
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"We cannot leave the appointment of Bishops to the Holy Ghost, because no one is confident that the Holy Ghost would understand what makes a good Church of England bishop."
Posts: 2314 | From: Croydon | Registered: Dec 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
Urban legend says that the practice of dedicating a church to a saint dates back to the abolition of paganism. Temples to Artemis (for example) could be easily converted into churches dedicated to the nearest equivalent saint (Mary). Anyone know if that's true or not?
There is truth in that in the general sense, and St Bride's in London is probably one example of that. It's centuries old, built on an already sacred site - and Brid, perhaps better known as Brigit, was a popular Celtic deity. There's still even a holy well, though it's covered up now with no public access to it.
As for Artemis herself, I've heard that St Paul's (London again) stands on the site of a former temple dedicated to Diana.
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
Urban legend says that the practice of dedicating a church to a saint dates back to the abolition of paganism. Temples to Artemis (for example) could be easily converted into churches dedicated to the nearest equivalent saint (Mary). Anyone know if that's true or not?
Certainly happened now and again but I don't think its generally true. It can't be about the majority of churches in western Europe because most of them were built centuries after the abolition of paganism.
Also churches were not always, or even very often, bult where pagan temples had been - though of course it happened sometimes. In ancient Rome churches were often founded on the sites of the burial (or occasionally the death) of martyrs, and at least some of these became known after the martyr they were built to commemorate. And many of these were in graveyards outside the city walls - in places where pagan temples tended not to be. (If you haven't read Margaret Visser's book The Geometry of Love about Sant'Agnese fuori le Mura in Rome, do!) Before then peopel had avoided graveyards, partly for health reasons, partly because they were supposed to be haunged by demons and the spirits of the dead. Christianity changed that. Some towns and villages - even Rome itself to some extent - seem to have been inverted by the coming of Christianity, recentred around the churches, which were outside the original boundaries, so the dead were now at the centre of urban life instead of the edge of it.
In England of course most parish churches were founded in the later middle ages, centureis after paganism had dies out. And most of them don't have their very own martyr to commemorate (only big exception I can think of is St Alfege's in Greenwich, which is on the site of his death) There do seem to be some loose trends in mediaeval church naming but I'm not sure how far they go. Famously St Michael's churches are supposed to often be on hills. And in the south-east of England anyway St Nicholas gets to have many churches dedicated to him in ports and fishing villages - also often just outside the town, and often on a hill. I have no idea how common that is.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
St Bride's in London is probably one example of that. It's centuries old, built on an already sacred site - and Brid, perhaps better known as Brigit, was a popular Celtic deity.
But St Brigid herself was clearly a historical character, even if nearly all the stories about here are as stringy as a string bag full of stringy beans. And it seems to have been a common name in early Christian Ireland - if we can believe Wikipedia there are written records of at least fourteen of them! And there are churches dedicated to her (or to the other Brigids) all over Europe But then maybe the churches were named after the women who were themselves named after the goddess....
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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sebby
Shipmate
# 15147
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Posted
Churches also may have had more than one dedication, and it may also have changed through the centuries.
It was also the case that some churches had the dedication of a saint who lodged there on his or her pilgrimage. A number of churches with 'St David' as a dedication are examples of this.
There don't seem to be any CofE churches dedicated to the Sacred Heart. One might have thought that the growth of Anglo-Catholicism in the latter part of the 19thC, the growth in church building and the sentimentalism of the era might have allowed this to sneak in. Perhaps the vigilence of 'persecuting' bishops prevented it.
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sebhyatt
Posts: 1340 | From: yorks | Registered: Sep 2009
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snowgoose
Silly goose
# 4394
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Posted
I have seen several churches on (or near) US Navy bases sacred to St. Mary Star of the Sea. Fort Monroe, which is not far from here, has the Chapel of the Centurion.
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Lord, what can the harvest hope for, if not for the care of the Reaper Man? --Terry Pratchett
Save a Siamese!
Posts: 3868 | From: Tidewater Virginia | Registered: Apr 2003
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
One church I know which was built after I was born was named 'The Church of the Holy Spirit' - the CofE congregation decided to do something different than use a saint's name, to mark it out from all the older churches in the area.
There is a Church of the Holy Spirit in the Liverpool suburb appropriately named Dovecot.
Were these churches from the 1960s or 1970s?
Anglican churches called Emmanuel are usually long term evangelical.
The Creamtealand example is 1960s.
The only Emmanuel Church I know is Evangelical. I don't think it's always been so, but it has traditionally been Low Church.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Pre-cambrian:
Were these churches from the 1960s or 1970s? There are two churches in Grantham of that vintage called the Church of the Epiphany and the Church of the Ascension.
The Liverpool one is just pre-WW2 (1938).
It's strange that churches dedicated to the Holy Trinity are often fairly ancient, while those dedicated to Christ or the Holy Spirit (I don't know any 'Father' ones) are usually much more recent. Christ Church often signifies an evangelical church, although not always.
An Aff-Cath church in my town is called Christ Church. It is Victorian I believe. I've seen quite a lot of Catholic churches called Christ the King.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
While I've no idea if it is canon or just custom, it seems that in TEC the Bp has the final say, though I imagine he gets 'suggestions' from the congregation involved.
In a former diocese (many years ago) a priest friend was transferred to a parish dedicated as 'All Souls.' He was unhappy about this, saying he couldn't do a proper patronal festival on a Requiem day. He asked the Bp to allow a change to 'Our Lady, Queen of All Souls.' Permission was granted. (Things were rather 'higher' there then than now.)
Another parish in that diocese, resulting from some mergers was 'Holy Cross-Emmanuel-St Bartholomews.' I have no idea what the members alled it -- we called it the 'hyphen church.'
My present diocese has a 'St Thaddeus' parish, the only one I've ever encountered; not Jude Thaddeus, just Thaddeus.
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
I once had a church rejoicing in the name "St Faith's, Doubtful Creek'. In the same parish I had St Mary's Mummulgum, which was quite alliteratively cute, but less interesting than yet another centre in the parish, which was St John's Rappville: unexceptional until you trace the records to discover the donor named it after himself: the well known St John Rapp ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
[ 27. October 2012, 10:51: Message edited by: Zappa ]
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
In this case, the Archbishop appealed to Rome.
In Montreal in the 1950s, the Roman Catholic Cathedral was known as (in English) St James, and had been so since the cathedral was built.
In 1955, or so, the Cardinal petitioned Rome to amend the name to Mary, Queen of the World (in English). Officially the Church has dual patronage - that of St James and Our Lady, but is commonly referred to as Mary, Queen of the World.
(Being Montréal, it is equally officially Marie, Reine du Monde et Saint Jacques.)
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
The daughter church in the parish where I grew up was planned to be dedicated "All Saints", but when it became clear that the date of the dedication was to fall on a feast of Mary, the dedication was altered to "St. Mary and All Saints". Is dedication-by-date a common occurance, do you think?
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chapelhead:
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
In 1955, or so, the Cardinal petitioned Rome to amend the name to Mary, Queen of the World
I've heard of "Mary, Queen of Heaven". Is "Queen of the world" a demotion?
No.
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Chamois
Shipmate
# 16204
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Posted
One of my all-time favourite church dedications is in Montreal. Our Lady of the Snows. (Or possibly: Our Lady, Queen of the Snows? It's been a while since I visited.)
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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
Posts: 978 | From: Hill of roses | Registered: Feb 2011
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