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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Dealing with cruel comments
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
There is a lay reader at my church who seems to enjoy belittling people with cruel remarks. I seem to be a particular target of her behaviour and although I generally ignore her, I am starting to think I should tell her to stop. Some of her remarks are embarrassing, others downright rude. The latest happened tonight at church and I felt very hurt and embarrassed as there was no substance to it according to others. I am tempted to email her and ask her why she felt the need to say what she did and to tell her that I was hurt. Should I do this or are such people better ignored? She is making going to church an unpleasant experience.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
Polite version: "I don't know if you realize this, but that remark you made was awfully mean and rude. Did you make it because you thought I needed to hear instruction from you on the issue?"
Not polite version: "Asshole."
Some other version: "I might care more about what you think if you made some vague attempt at being polite and it was any of your business."
Yet another: "Wow. Did you wake up this morning with a mission from God to tell me this? Is there some other reason for doing so? What might that be?"
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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ecumaniac
Ship's whipping girl
# 376
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
She is making going to church an unpleasant experience.
Don't just ignore it, it won't go away!
Would it help if you had a chat with the minister/pastor? Maybe he/she could help you work out the best way to let this person know that their comments are hurtful.
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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine
Posts: 2901 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jun 2001
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
You should face her down about this, bib.
I live and work in a diocese where one senior cleric has been doing this unchallenged (indeed with other senior individuals, including the retiring bishop, joining in). It has been thoroughly corrosive of morale and has completely destroyed the proper self-confidence of several good priests. I long for the arrival of UT new bishop because I know him personally and know that he loathes that kind of behaviour, having been on the receiving end of it from the same man whilst in seminary thirty years ago. He will simply not tolerate it.
Meanwhile, bib, ![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
It's possible she is completely unaware of how rude and hurtful her comments are. I knew someone who was bullied as a child and even as a young adult she just thought it was being funny to make comments that belittled others and was genuinely shocked that people were hurt.
One way or the other something needs to be said either by you or perhaps you could enlist the help of someone else to ask her if she realised how rude you found her comments. She may try to change, if not give her a wide berth.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
I don't think ignoring will make it go away and neither do I think you need to ask her why she is doing it - I think you just need to tell her to stop doing it! Surely that is the only thing that interests you.
Please try not to say sorry in any message you send and try to avoid the word "but" - and keep it brief, keep it factual, keep it focussed on her behaviour rather than on her and keep to the point.
Have other people expressed the same sort of feeling? Can you get together and do a joint message to her?
If the behaviour continues then, later, you can cc. it to the incumbent.
WW
Once upon a time an Assertiveness Trainer
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
It's not an easy trick, but if you can go from being responsive to observational it helps. What I mean is, when someone says something unkind/untrue about us, the first reaction is to experience hurt and feel defensive. But instead of that, focus on their behaviour, not on its effect: calmly observe them being hostile. This enables you to say things like: 'I see you are being offensive to me. Why is that?'
If their intention was to upset you, then they are denied that satisfaction. If, for some reason, it was unintentional, then it offers an opportunity to explain and apologise. It signals clearly that whatever their game is, you're not playing.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Edith
Shipmate
# 16978
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Posted
The problem with that sort of challenge is that the response is often 'oh dear, I'm sorry you were upset' putting the responsibility back on the recipient of the comments. Or, alternatively you might get the 'sense of humour failure / joke / it was a lighthearted comment' defence. I think Trisagion is right. It needs facing down and it helps if you have recorded the comments and the time and place where they were made, and enlist any others who have heard them and find them as unpleasant as you do.
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Edith
Posts: 256 | From: UK | Registered: Mar 2012
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
FWIW, the first time I was on the receiving end from our senior cleric - who also happens to be my line-manager - I simply looked at him and said,"How remarkably rude." and turned away. He hasn't done it since.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I guess I'm a bit scared of doing anything as I hate conflict, but I realize it can't go on. She is a very forceful character who seems to revel in her position and plays power games. There are many others at church who have been on the receiving end of her barbs but it seems to have been my turn for a long time.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
Courage, mon brave. People like that bank on the fact that the rest of us don't like conflict to give them the room for their nastiness.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Edith:
The problem with that sort of challenge is that the response is often 'oh dear, I'm sorry you were upset'
But you're not, that's the point. On the 'It was meant as a joke' - the response is 'It didn't come across as one'.
I realise the stony-faced detachment may need a little work to achieve, but it is quite effective.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I don't think ignoring will make it go away and neither do I think you need to ask her why she is doing it - I think you just need to tell her to stop doing it! Surely that is the only thing that interests you.
This.
Some bullies don't actually know they are doing it and will stop when it's pointed out to them. I hope this is one of that sort. Here is a useful website.
for you
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
I've found that ignoring the remarks and behaving as if nothing untowards had taken place only gives someone licence to continue.
Some people do have a fairly rough sense of humour and lack of sensitivity. I'd advise saying, calmly if you can, that you found their remark unkind, and seeing what their reaction is. If they apologize, you're fine. If they tell you it was a joke, they probably just have a rough sense of humour. Any other reaction (as it might be, they just laugh, tell you to grow some skin, or say nothing) and you know where you stand. You've made the position clear. If they carry on doing it, you then have a better case for talking to someone else about it.
[ 02. September 2012, 13:00: Message edited by: Ariel ]
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Thanks for the website on bullying. I hadn't realized how much this describes the perpetrator. I actually feel quite sorry for her as she isn't liked by many people at church, but the minister finds her helpful as she makes herself useful doing 'important' works.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
The following will doubtless destroy whatever chance you had of building a relationship with her, but it sounds like you're past that anyway.
The next time she says something clearly offensive (e.g. "I don't know why they ever picked you to be reader, you clearly don't have the voice for it") say "excuse me," immediately grab a bystander from the nearest group--preferably one with some backbone, if they have standing in the congregation, that's even better!) drag him/her over, and say quite seriously, "Would you please repeat what you said to me, I want to be completely sure I understood you." At this point you will either get the waffle or a flat out repetition. If it's the waffle ("It wasn't meant for other ears, I was just trying to give you a hint, etc.") you hang on bulldog style and say, "No, no, I really want to understand what you said. Please repeat it, it's very important to me to understand just what it is that you consider bad about my voice. John will listen and help me to understand." And so on, and so on, until you judge she's been beaten up enough and won't try it again.
If you get a flat out repetition, go all scientific on her. "John, I'm so glad you're hear to help me understand, I'd be grateful if you'd listen carefully. Now, Molly, precisely WHAT was it about my voice that you feel makes me unfit to be a reader? Is it the pitch, or the volume, or the intonation...? If you happen to HAVE pen and paper, by all means take notes. And while you're doing so, say, "John, can you confirm that this is a problem? What's your take on this?" and so forth. Your goal is to make as big of a non-emotional fuss of this as you would if she had just reported smelling a dangerous gas odor in the hallway. When you judge she's had enough, you look her straight in the eye, say "Thank you for your input. I will be weighing it very carefully, and will be interested to hear what you say in the future." It's unlikely there will BE a future!
(Be sure to take John out for a drink or something, he'll have earned it!)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
Thanks for the website on bullying. I hadn't realized how much this describes the perpetrator. I actually feel quite sorry for her as she isn't liked by many people at church, but the minister finds her helpful as she makes herself useful doing 'important' works.
Perhaps the minister is fully aware of what she does. This may not be relevant to your own situation but in my experience some clergy actively cultivate such behaviour in a 'useful' person. This person picks up the cleric's negative views and fires the bullets on their behalf allowing the cleric to keep a distance from their own aggression.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
This may sound bruta, but be wary of someone who makes you feel sorry for their consistently rude and aggressive words or actions towards you. There could be some covert aggressive behaviour going on which is very well described in the book 'Wolves in Sheep's Clothing' and there is an excert here.
It may be that this person really doesn't know that their comments are hurtful and some of the excellent suggestions further up the thread should stop it the behaviour. It may be that they know exactly what they are doing and it won't be until you challenge it that you know where you are.
[ 02. September 2012, 14:20: Message edited by: Poppy ]
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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Poppy
Ship's dancing cat
# 2000
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Posted
Brutal not bruta - missed the edit window.
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At the still point of the turning world - there the dance is...
Posts: 1406 | From: mostly on the edge | Registered: Dec 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
Those of us who are readers have to be relicensed every 3 years and the PCC and AGM have to agree to this.
There is a think in Matthew's Gospel about approaching someone personally, then in a group, then taking them to the edlers etc.
In the same vein, approach her, maybe do so again with a group of 3 others, then go to the minister.vicar. ?
She may be nasty and/or in need of some sort of help.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
It might be difficult (I find it difficult) but it is vital to keep your cool when standing up to this kind of behaviour whether it is intentional or not.
If you are to haul in 'John' as Lamb Chopped suggests, it may help to brief him first. Choose someone who has not been insulted, ideally because Person X dare not do so. I'm sure you can think of a few with an innate sense of justice, and mercy too as a true wake-up call of this nature may well a shattering event for her.
btw: Note that your minister may actually be pleased to have someone around who can act as 'nasty cop'. Most ministers are too busy to keep all the plates spinning.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
From the site Poppy linked to - there are many tactics the bully will get up to when you 'out' them - but this is a very common one, so be on the lookout for it.
"Playing the Victim Role – This tactic involves portraying oneself as an innocent victim of circumstances or someone else's behavior in order to gain sympathy, evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. One thing that covert-aggressive personalities count on is the fact that less calloused and less hostile personalities usually can't stand to see anyone suffering."
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Those of us who are readers have to be relicensed every 3 years and the PCC and AGM have to agree to this.
For a Reader licensed to a parish re-licensing has to be endorsed by the incumbent and PCC, but not the AGM. Usually a churchwarden signs the re-licensing form on behalf of the PCC - it's not necessary for there to be a formal PCC decision. It is assumed that a churchwarden will be aware of any problems such as strong opposition from the congregation. Generally speaking if a cleric supports a Reader then the Reader will be re-licensed.
If the Reader in this case has been behaving in this way for a long time I suspect the incumbent is fully aware and may possibly be tacitly supporting the behaviour.
[ 02. September 2012, 14:46: Message edited by: justlooking ]
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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chive
Ship's nude
# 208
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Posted
There was a woman in my old church like that who used to be a bitch to everyone. She tried it on me a couple of times but stopped when I told her, 'you do know you're a cow'. Nasty but effective.
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'Edward was the kind of man who thought there was no such thing as a lesbian, just a woman who hadn't done one-to-one Bible study with him.' Catherine Fox, Love to the Lost
Posts: 3542 | From: the cupboard under the stairs | Registered: May 2001
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Telepath
Ship's Steamer Trunk
# 3534
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Posted
The most important factor in job outcomes isn't quality of work, but whether you upset your boss. I am in no way being cynical about this.
If this person is verbally abusing others and the person in charge excuses it on grounds of "productivity", that means the person in charge is not upset by it. The bullying is taking place with the full knowledge and approval of the bully's superiors, who are using the bully as their cat's paw.
It's unlikely you'll get the behaviour to stop, because this person doesn't have a problem, it's the church that has the problem. You may be able to get them to direct the bullying at another target if you just tell them to fuck directly off, in the moment. Possibly immediately followed by a remark to the bully's superior: "and as for you, nobody's impressed that you're using Poindexter here to do your bullying for you."
You can only do so much, though, you're not a therapist and you're not in charge either.
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Take emptiness and lying speech far from me, and do not give me poverty or wealth. Give me a living sufficient for me.
Posts: 3509 | From: East Anglia | Registered: Nov 2002
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
If her rudeness isn't solely aimed at you, could you enlist the help of her other targets, on the principle of safety in numbers?
And really, how indispensable can she be to the vicar if she's upsetting and alienating other members of the congregation?
Good luck with getting it sorted out.
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Thanks to all for your advice and encouragement. I have bitten the bullet and sent her an email in which I have told her how embarrassed and humiliated I felt as a result of her comments. I have also requested that she does not treat me in this way any more. Copy has been forwarded to a church elder. Now wait for the fireworks.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Welease Woderwick
Sister Incubus Nightmare
# 10424
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Posted
Well done!
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I give thanks for unknown blessings already on their way.
Fancy a break in South India?
Accessible Homestay Guesthouse in Central Kerala, contact me for details
What part of Matt. 7:1 don't you understand?
Posts: 48139 | From: 1st on the right, straight on 'til morning | Registered: Sep 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Good for you, and for including someone else!
FWIW: I once asked someone, "are you always this rude?", and they enthusiastically responded, "yes!"...which, at least, gave me an idea of where they were coming from. Fortunately, I didn't have to deal with them much.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Well done bib. I hope she doesn't simply ignore it, which can easily happen with emails 'I didn't see that one. Are you sure you sent it to me/the right address' and some such. You did right by cc'ing it to one of the elders.
As you may gather, I agree with Telepath on the minister's role in this.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I've received a reply in which she claims to feel badly wronged and done by. She says she can't see how what she said could be in any way construed as bullying and humiliating. She claims to be shocked to receive the email from me. I replied reiterating that I felt bullied and humiliated at what had been said (broken record stuff). I asked why she felt the need to make negative remarks but never any positive ones. I also said that we both worked hard for our church and I felt it was necessary to support each other on our Christian journeys. Don't know what else I can do or say as the ball is in her court now, but I feel relieved to have tackled the situation. Thanks everyone for the wise words and support.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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Edith
Shipmate
# 16978
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Posted
Well done, Bib. I bet that's the last you'll hear of it especially as she knows that one of the elders has seen it too. Stay strong and never, never apologise in any way just stiick to what you said. (As you have done)
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Edith
Posts: 256 | From: UK | Registered: Mar 2012
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
Bullies often when confronted will do everything possible to turn it around and make themselves seem like the victim. The key is to stay calm, and stick to your guns. Good luck!
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Chamois
Shipmate
# 16204
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Posted
What Spiffy said.
Remember, if anyone (anyone at all) behaves in a way that you find offensive you have a PERFECT RIGHT to make a complaint about their behaviour. Politely, which is how you have done it.
They do not have any right to complain because you have complained.
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The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases
Posts: 978 | From: Hill of roses | Registered: Feb 2011
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
I am still much concerned by this.
Where someone is 'in denial' it is a useful 'tool' to keep a log of comments: July 3 - said X
July 8 said Y
etc.
According to 1 Corinthians 13, love keeps no score of wrongs.
However, when people don't believe they are causing any trouble, chapter and verse can make it more real to them.
In school, we had to do this when we wanted to suspend a pupil - parents an governors would not act on hearsay unless we fleshed it out.
The same is true for my local Neighborhood Watch which has deputed me to collect statistics about such exciting issues as wheelie bins and the neglect of the local council (!)
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Loquacious beachcomber
Shipmate
# 8783
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Posted
It is always possible that you are standing proxy for someone the cruel commenter can not confront; a long-gone vicar, a former boss who fired or disciplined them; a spouse they dislike but can not bring themselves to leave.
At some point, you will need to decide whether this is a fight worth taking on; subjecting yourself to ongoing abuse can be a recipe for health disaster. Even if you are in the right.
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TODAY'S SPECIAL - AND SO ARE YOU (Sign on beachfront fish & chips shop)
Posts: 5954 | From: Southeast of Wawa, between the beach and the hiking trail.. | Registered: Nov 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Well done bib!
Watch out now for the possibility of even more playing to the victim role, probably to an audience with many tears - and if that doesn't work a quick switch of tactics.
On-going for you.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Loquacious beachcomber:
It is always possible that you are standing proxy for someone the cruel commenter can not confront; a long-gone vicar, a former boss who fired or disciplined them; a spouse they dislike but can not bring themselves to leave.
At some point, you will need to decide whether this is a fight worth taking on; subjecting yourself to ongoing abuse can be a recipe for health disaster. Even if you are in the right.
What Boogie said (having warned of earlier) and the above. You aren't out of the woods yet though and I feel someone in the church leadership team, if not the minister, must get involved for this to be concluded satisfactorily.
Nevertheless, you took courage, and got the apparent bully to respond.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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ecumaniac
Ship's whipping girl
# 376
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by bib:
I've received a reply in which she claims to feel badly wronged and done by. She says she can't see how what she said could be in any way construed as bullying and humiliating.
Such a typical "bully" response!
Good on you for taking her on. I hope you get the appropriate backup from the church leaders.
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it's a secret club for people with a knitting addiction, hiding under the cloak of BDSM - Catrine
Posts: 2901 | From: Cambridge | Registered: Jun 2001
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Anna B
Shipmate
# 1439
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Posted
It seems to me that whatever the bully's response, the main thing here, bib, is that you found the wherewithal to try a different response than the one you had been giving. Please forgive me for using American business-speak... HOORAY for self-differentiated leadership. HOORAY for bib.
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Bad Christian (TM)
Posts: 3069 | From: near a lot of fish | Registered: Oct 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ecumaniac:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bib:
[qb] I've received a reply in which she claims to feel badly wronged and done by. She says she can't see how what she said could be in any way construed as bullying and humiliating.
And the best answer to that? In my experience, SILENCE.
No need to keep that conversation going. She either knows (and is lying), or she ought to know (and you have done your bit already to inform her). I would have no further conversation with her on the subject without either the pastor or elder standing there as a witness. Otherwise you only give her more room to attack you. And possibly more fuel to her fire, if she's the kind of person who thrives on drama and conflict (lots of them are).
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
I intend to avoid any further contact and altercations with her if at all possible. I just hope she doesn't confront me. I guess I feel a bit nervous about next Sunday .
[ 04. September 2012, 02:05: Message edited by: bib ]
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
Posts: 1307 | From: Australia | Registered: Oct 2007
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I'm someone who wishes I could think clearly and say things in the moment when they provoke my feelings. Your email has the same effect as doing that, but allows thoughtfulness. A very good way to have done it. Well done.
The next Sunday nervousness brings it back to in person, in the moment, and would make, I think, nearly anyone nervous. Having had some encounters in the past sort of like your's, the best advice I received was to make eye contact and say "Good Morning", full stop. If you plan in advance to say nearly nothing, and use the suggested silence, the rest will follow. You can say, I think, 'good morning' whatever this person says, and whether you speak first or second. You simply don't quite notice whatever else might be said. The expectation should be to either be ignored (low likelihood I think) or to have the 'good morning' returned. And then you're off to the church service or mass, or to get some after church refreshment.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Good advice. The "good morning" deliberately spoken en passant on your way to another destination says a. I see you and am taking notice of anything further you may or may not be up to, b. I'm not afraid of you (even if I am), c. I have no intention of having any further interaction with you at this point, d. Whether we ever have any future interaction beyond "good morning" depends entirely upon your good behavior or lack thereof. If possible you want a perfectly civil but mildly edgy tone to your voice, of the sort Professor McGonagall would use with Draco Malfoy. An "I'm keeping my eye on you" tone.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
FWIW, the first time I was on the receiving end from our senior cleric - who also happens to be my line-manager - I simply looked at him and said,"How remarkably rude." and turned away. He hasn't done it since.
bib, I think Trisagion's example is a good one. It's completely acceptable for us, in a civil but straightforward way, to respond with a simple statement that shows our 'surprise' that another person should be so unnecessarily unpleasant. Not 'do you know how that sounds' or 'do you know how that makes me feel' - but simply 'how rude/judgemental/unnecessary/not true etc'. Not angry - just matter-of-fact. The emphasis is then on what that person is saying, and whether or not they actually want to defend it.
People of that ilk, I imagine, don't much care if someone reacts badly to their nasty remarks; but if they find that in being nasty they're bringing on their own behaviour a negative judgement, which you're quite prepared to point out, it strikes a little closer to home.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Janine
The Endless Simmer
# 3337
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Posted
It's hard for me to imagine what sort of actual "power" a lay reader has, that she could wield it like such a bludgeon.
Some people are the stars of their own mental soap operas.
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I'm a Fundagelical Evangimentalist. What are you?
Take Me Home * My Heart * An hour with Rich Mullins *
Posts: 13788 | From: Below the Bible Belt | Registered: Sep 2002
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
If she does wish to pursue confrontation, I'd suggest saying calmly, "I have no time now, but I'd be willing to meet with you and our pastor to further discuss things at a time that is convenient to us all." She'll either put up, shut up, or bluster and burble incoherently. Then you walk away.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Janine:
It's hard for me to imagine what sort of actual "power" a lay reader has, that she could wield it like such a bludgeon.
Depends on the type of church. Even in our liberal-ish church i am appalled at the number of people who tell me that they -respect' my authority because of my role and that what I say carries more weight than what some others say.
I think this is very dangerous and i can see how an inadequate person could use this to his/her advantage.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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