Ship of Fools: Tips for studying Theology please.

Thread: Tips for studying Theology please. Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by stagflation (# 14061) on :

I've just embarked on a BA Theology. Would appreciate any suggestions for good introductory reading. Plus any tips for combining Faith with Study. I am Anglican who attends Church and would like to be still doing that at the end of the course.

Posted by Dave Marshall (# 7533) on :

Follow and engage in discussions here for the duration of your course. Seriously. I doubt you'll get a better grounding in theology.

Posted by Macrina (# 8807) on :

Have a look at your booklists and go from there get a decent church history text and read that. Preferably one on the early church and one on the Reformation.

I'd advise learning to use a concordance and if you think you'd be able to do it try to learn one of the Biblical languages.

I did keep going to church but I did 'disengage' at some point from faith once I started treating it as an academic discipline. I'm not sure of any cure for that other than trying to keep your feet on the ground.

Posted by Zach82 (# 3208) on :

Take as much scripture as you can- even if you don't want to major in it.

Posted by Poppy (# 2000) on :

I like David Ford's 'A Very Short Introduction to Theology' as it is very short! Once you get going on the course each module/course that you do is likely to have introductory books on the reading list and I found that it really helped me to read those first before getting into more detailed texts. Your learning style may vary of course.

I found that my faith deepened through the study of theology. Another thing I found was that I felt very drawn to silence and contemplative prayer - perhaps as an antidote to all those words.

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

Whatever you are asked to do, always give some consideration to "why does this matter?", and "How does this relate to non-Christans"?

Do not worry about where it leads you. Not being in church is not the end of the world! But the important thing is are you exploring and learning, and really asking the difficult questions?

Posted by Trisagion (# 5235) on :

Do as much theology on your knees as you can manage. If, as St Anselm held, theology is faith seeking understanding, prayer is an essential component. That and what Zach82 said.

Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :

A general point about studying theology, philosophy, and the like: there is a human tendency to believe things that we have to work to understand. It's just a form of cognitive dissonance. It was said that Hegel became so important in western philosophy for just this reason. So try to step back from the effort involved in making sense out of the folks you read and ask whether they are really talking sense or just making you work so hard to follow them that you want them to be saying something of value.

--Tom Clune

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :

I am not sure whether you are thinking of theology in terms of future Ordination, ot just as an interested layperson.

However, I was amazed to read that a shipmate recommended ONE book on early church history. Read widely and deeply. And if at all possible - given the the course is commendably THEOLOGY and not just Religious Studies - grasp the ancient languages, at least New Testament Greek.

Enjoy Church History and do Liturgy if you get the chance. What we pray is what we believe. It is a massively underestimated branch of theology - but less so than it used to be.

When it comes to Systematics or Dogmatics as it used to be called, don't shy away from the great S Thomas Aquinas.

All in all enjoy it. Be challenged and prepared for the fact that if faith and study are combined, your beliefs will probably be quite different at the end of your course. And it will not stop there.

And finally, you will be given the tools for lifelong study. Never give it up.

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

I graduated with my BA last year. Use the latest texts on the book list. Also read others that are not on the booklist in order to get a balanced view.

Good books include Ford, as above. Also Christian Theology 4th Edition, McGrath;

Enjoy! It was hard work for me (I am 50 after all) but I miss it now it's over.

i did a lot of hermeneutics and stuff, so Tate's Biblical Interpretation is good and so is Graeme Goldsworthy's Gospel-Centred Hermenuetics.

[ 30. September 2012, 13:53: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]

Posted by SusanDoris (# 12618) on :

Good luck with your studies. I don't know anything about the work involved in this, but I wonder if you will come up against the definition of theology as the study of nothing ? If you do, and if you have the time, I would be most interested to know how it is dealt with.

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :

S Thomas called it the Queen of the Sciences.

Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
S Thomas called it the Queen of the Sciences.

Of course, in Aquinas' day the rest of the sciences were pretty low-bred.

--Tom Clune

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

Read as much as you can, around the subjects you are studying. If there is a focus of your subject, then it will help you focus your reading.

In particular, if there is a choice to read an original theologian, or even a suggestion that they may be relevant, get them and read them. So much is written ABOUT ideas, you do much better to get down to the originals. They are normally very hard going, but worth it. People like Moltmann and Bosch are tough reads, but worth the effort. Not to mention looking good as references on your essays.

I did my theology degree by extension, which really helped to ground my studies. If you are interested in some ongoing email support, PM me.

Posted by Macrina (# 8807) on :

quote:
Originally posted by sebby:
I am not sure whether you are thinking of theology in terms of future Ordination, ot just as an interested layperson.

However, I was amazed to read that a shipmate recommended ONE book on early church history. Read widely and deeply. And if at all possible - given the the course is commendably THEOLOGY and not just Religious Studies - grasp the ancient languages, at least New Testament Greek.

Enjoy Church History and do Liturgy if you get the chance. What we pray is what we believe. It is a massively underestimated branch of theology - but less so than it used to be.

When it comes to Systematics or Dogmatics as it used to be called, don't shy away from the great S Thomas Aquinas.

All in all enjoy it. Be challenged and prepared for the fact that if faith and study are combined, your beliefs will probably be quite different at the end of your course. And it will not stop there.

And finally, you will be given the tools for lifelong study. Never give it up.

As a clarification my recommendation was just as a start for future reading not as a be all and end all.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
Do as much theology on your knees as you can manage. If, as St Anselm held, theology is faith seeking understanding, prayer is an essential component. That and what Zach82 said.

But also be prepared to lose your faith and need to rebuild it slowly - Theology takes everything apart and it doesn't appear to fit after that - but it does, eventually.

Posted by stagflation (# 14061) on :

Thank you very much for all your suggestions. When I have time I'll reply to posts which asked questions. I'm mid thirties mature student from Anglican background. It isn't to a view to ordination. I was just interested in further study. I will be at Heythrop in London. I was a late entrant on course hence request for book suggestions. First lecture tomorrow and also Aquinas reading group. Would welcome any further suggestions, advice on combining faith and study. Many thanks to all.

Posted by Lamb Chopped (# 5528) on :

I like the one about studying it "on your knees." It's so damned easy to get caught up in studying God as a subject and forget to KNOW God, spend time with him, love him, etc. etc. etc. Like the literature professors who no longer read for pleasure. What's the point then?

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

quote:
Originally posted by leo:

quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
Do as much theology on your knees as you can manage. If, as St Anselm held, theology is faith seeking understanding, prayer is an essential component. That and what Zach82 said.
But also be prepared to lose your faith and need to rebuild it slowly - Theology takes everything apart and it doesn't appear to fit after that - but it does, eventually.

What Zack, Trisagion and leo said.

Biblical studies, prayer and being part of a faith community are important. They provide the context for the information.

Information without context becomes meaningless.

But most of all, enjoy it! Don't get too stressed when you realise your studies will raise more questions than they answer.

The purpose of a theological education is to be confused in a more informed way. [Big Grin]

Posted by Sir Pellinore (# 12163) on :

Perhaps you should leave open the possibility you could eventually go beyond theological study as Aquinas did after he completed the Summa, stagflation? He had a mystical experience rather similar to Dante's just before his death which tended to put things into perspective for him.

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

Study something more practical than theology.

Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
Good luck with your studies. I don't know anything about the work involved in this, but I wonder if you will come up against the definition of theology as the study of nothing ? If you do, and if you have the time, I would be most interested to know how it is dealt with.

Very helpful. If you take this view to heart, you may as well not bother.

Let's start again. For C of E'rs, I'd recommend some of the Lion handbooks, such as "The History of Christianity," "The World's Religions" and John Drane's introduction of the Old/New Testaments.

I recommend these because they are informative, well illustrated, and an easy and enjoyable read. Why should theology be a laborious task?

Posted by Custard (# 5402) on :

A friend of mine put together this advice for exactly your situation. It's worth a look.

Posted by the long ranger (# 17109) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:

quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
Good luck with your studies. I don't know anything about the work involved in this, but I wonder if you will come up against the definition of theology as the study of nothing ? If you do, and if you have the time, I would be most interested to know how it is dealt with.
Very helpful. If you take this view to heart, you may as well not bother.

Let's start again. For C of E'rs, I'd recommend some of the Lion handbooks, such as "The History of Christianity," "The World's Religions" and John Drane's introduction of the Old/New Testaments.

I recommend these because they are informative, well illustrated, and an easy and enjoyable read. Why should theology be a laborious task?

Oh Mark you make me laugh.

As if anyone seriously studying for a batchelor degree would be reading a Lion handbook.

I'd hope that any theology undergraduate rather quickly progresses beyond that level.

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:

quote:

Originally posted by Mark Betts:
... Very helpful. If you take this view to heart, you may as well not bother.

Let's start again. For C of E'rs, I'd recommend some of the Lion handbooks, such as "The History of Christianity," "The World's Religions" and John Drane's introduction of the Old/New Testaments.

I recommend these because they are informative, well illustrated, and an easy and enjoyable read. Why should theology be a laborious task?

quote:
Oh Mark you make me laugh.

As if anyone seriously studying for a batchelor degree would be reading a Lion handbook.

I'd hope that any theology undergraduate rather quickly progresses beyond that level.

Don't be a snob. Straightforward introductions, encyclopaedias etc are a very good way of getting the shape of a subject, filling in background and saving time.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

This first tip isn't mine, but I can't remember who I stole it from now. It's always worked for me: always prefer primary sources to secondary. That means, before you think it'll be better to read a book about Aquinas, try reading Aquinas. Ditto Augustine, Athanasius, Chrysostom, etc. (In translation, if necessary.)

You might find it doesn't work for you. But I've often been surprised how lucid and comprehensible the old writers are in comparison with their modern commentators.

This second tip also isn't mine, but it was given me by my own Old Testament tutor, Fr John Davies: "Never despise old books. Never despise small books."

Posted by the long ranger (# 17109) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Don't be a snob. Straightforward introductions, encyclopaedias etc are a very good way of getting the shape of a subject, filling in background and saving time.

I'm not a snob, I am someone who has studied at university several times. I agree that these might be useful background for someone who is interested but not studying at university level.

But that was the question posed in the first post.

Posted by Stejjie (# 13941) on :

I'd echo what everyone else has said here. But I'd also add: don't do what I did and just read the bits you're told to read, or the bits you need to read for assignments etc. I did this, often just reading selected chapters from books rather than trying to spend time with the whole book and get the entire argument. Read what you're told, but read around it, read opposing views, get a feel for the whole of a subject or argument (as much as is practically possible).

Also...

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Study something more practical than theology.

I'd say, instead, find ways to make the theology you study practical and relevant to your situation and your context. Try to find links between what you're studying and what the situation is where you are. If you're studying something new, ask "How might this change my context".

Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
Don't be a snob. Straightforward introductions, encyclopaedias etc are a very good way of getting the shape of a subject, filling in background and saving time.

Exactly - stagflation was looking for good introductory reading, not intellectual gobbledegook!

That being said, the Lion handbooks are good for an introduction, but have an evangelical slant to them. That's good if you want to defend your evangelicalism, and every book will have some sort of bias according to the writer's/publisher's perspective. I just wonder if there is a similar publisher for those of a more catholic persuasion, which produces books just as illustrative, enjoyable and affirmative but with more emphasis on the Church and Sacraments.

[ 01. October 2012, 10:26: Message edited by: Mark Betts ]

Posted by the long ranger (# 17109) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
Exactly - stagflation was looking for good introductory reading, not intellectual gobbledegook!

I stand by my point that the Lion handbooks are no use for an undergraduate in theology.

quote:
That being said, the Lion handbooks are good for an introduction, but have an evangelical slant to them. That's good if you want to defend your evangelicalism, and every book will have some sort of bias according to the writer's/publisher's perspective. I just wonder if there is a similar publisher for those of a more catholic persuasion, which produces books just as illustrative, enjoyable and affirmative but with more emphasis on the Church and Sacraments.

They have very much more than an evangelical slant and are not intended for use as an undergraduate text. End of story.

I very much doubt that anything stagflation reads will have much help in the early days of his course that we suggest - given the variety and content of theology degrees.

Generally speaking, the usual rules of university life apply - turn up to lectures, read the reading list with more/other opinions if possible, answer the questions posed, get the essays in on time.

Once you know the curriculum and what is included, you might well then be able to branch out and find texts that you are more comfortable with than the ones specified by the course. Of course, theology lecturers are coming from a particular point of view (like everyone else) so they are likely to favour particular texts. But you don't usually have to use those texts, and as long as your essays are well argued and reference sensible (and you'll have to quickly learn how to weigh and assess arguments) texts and works, you should still get good marks even if your conclusions disagree with the lecturer's POV.

Suggesting the use of a Lion handbook is as much use as a chocolate teapot in this situation.

[ 01. October 2012, 10:36: Message edited by: the long ranger ]

Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
I stand by my point that the Lion handbooks are no use for an undergraduate in theology.

I rather thought you might!

Posted by EJ. (# 9063) on :

I second Adeodatus's advice on reading primary sources. And learn (at least) Greek if you possibly can. Reading the early writings in original language is both enjoyable and illuminating.

Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :

quote:
Originally posted by EJ.:
I second Adeodatus's advice on reading primary sources. And learn (at least) Greek if you possibly can. Reading the early writings in original language is both enjoyable and illuminating.

I'm not sure that it is really feasible to develop a sufficient facility with Greek to actually read the NT without years of study. I think better advice would be to learn Hebrew and Greek well enough to be able to look up key words in, e.g., BDAG and HALOT to understand the nuances of key terms in pivotal passages of scripture. This can be accomplished in a few months of intensive study. And that level of familiarity with the main original languages is helpful in reading many scholarly articles on scripture.

--Tom Clune

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

Wikipedia - every time!
Make sure you reference it properly though.
You must use the Harvard reference system - it makes anything you read look impressive!

[Biased]

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

Hebrew and Greek? [Ultra confused]

For my BA(Hons) in Theology & Ministry I didn't learn or use one single word in either Hebrew or Greek! It was bad enough learning how to spell 'hermeneutics'!

LOL

I got a 2:1 thank you for asking, and ++Sentamu gave it to me [Smile]

[ 01. October 2012, 12:53: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]

Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Wikipedia - every time!

Yup, that as well - but it's not such an easy read as Lion handbooks + not many illustrations [Frown]

Posted by South Coast Kevin (# 16130) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Hebrew and Greek?

For my BA(Hons) in Theology & Ministry I didn't learn or use one single word in either Hebrew or Greek! It was bad enough learning how to spell 'hermeneutics'!

Wow, that really surprises me. We often get a few Greek or Hebrew words sprinkled through the talks at our church's Sunday meetings!

I find it tremendously helpful, like a few weeks ago the talk was about what being a peace-maker means and the guy speaking gave us the Latin, Greek and Hebrew words for peace, to draw out a first-century Jewish sense of what it means to be a peace-maker.

So I agree with tclune, that knowing some key Greek and Hebrew words would probably be both very useful and also achievable within a theology course. Not many of us will have the time or inclination to study a Biblical language in such depth that we can read a text in the original language and translate on the fly! (Seen this done, very impressive.)

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
This first tip isn't mine, but I can't remember who I stole it from now. It's always worked for me: always prefer primary sources to secondary.

Absolutely. If you can. Standard university admonition tho, not just for theology.

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
That means, before you think it'll be better to read a book about Aquinas, try reading Aquinas. Ditto Augustine, Athanasius, Chrysostom, etc. (In translation, if necessary.)

You might find it doesn't work for you. But I've often been surprised how lucid and comprehensible the old writers are in comparison with their modern commentators.

I've found Aquinas and Augustine really, really difficult.

Tho it's on the Trinity so it may be the subject matter rather than the authors.....

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Hebrew and Greek?

For my BA(Hons) in Theology & Ministry I didn't learn or use one single word in either Hebrew or Greek!

Is that from a college or a university?

My program requires one year of straight Hebrew or Greek. Then six months of pure translation.

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

York St John University

Posted by Custard (# 5402) on :

The IVP "black dictionaries" (e.g. Dictionary of Paul and His Letters) are really useful for giving you an overview of a topic.

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
Hebrew and Greek?

For my BA(Hons) in Theology & Ministry I didn't learn or use one single word in either Hebrew or Greek! It was bad enough learning how to spell 'hermeneutics'!
Wow, that really surprises me. We often get a few Greek or Hebrew words sprinkled through the talks at our church's Sunday meetings!

Well indeed. I have often said to the congregation that in the original such and such was meant, or that the Greek is better because it's is richer, etc. God forbid though that my sermons (NEVER just talks!) becomne lectures in Greek literature that will 'impress' the listeners.

Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
This first tip isn't mine, but I can't remember who I stole it from now. It's always worked for me: always prefer primary sources to secondary.
Absolutely. If you can. Standard university admonition tho, not just for theology.

Yeah, but it's standard university BS in my experience. When I took the qualifier in history of philosophy, the profs putting together the exam had read Coppleston, not the original authors for the most part. Knowing what the standard history said about a philosopher was much more useful than knowing what the philosopher said, if your goal was to pass the qualifier.

--Tom Clune

Posted by SusanDoris (# 12618) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Sir Pellinore:
Perhaps you should leave open the possibility you could eventually go beyond theological study as Aquinas did after he completed the Summa, stagflation? He had a mystical experience rather similar to Dante's just before his death which tended to put things into perspective for him.

But at that time, they did not have the wealth of scientific information available today which would say that all such experiences come from within the brain, not from without.

Stagflation
I would also be interested to know if an assumption is made that the students believe in God, i.e. the Christian God.

Posted by Evensong (# 14696) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
But at that time, they did not have the wealth of scientific information available today which would say that all such experiences come from within the brain, not from without.

Science does not prove all such experiences originate from within the brain SusanDoris. It has merely shown that the hard-wiring of the brain will usually be involved with them.

You are confusing the limits of science with the God of Dawkins.

quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:

I would also be interested to know if an assumption is made that the students believe in God, i.e. the Christian God.

At my university, anybody may take a Bachelor of Theology. Faith or no.

[ 01. October 2012, 14:06: Message edited by: Evensong ]

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :

I would say: trust those teaching you. That doesn't mean that you'll end up agreeing with everything each of them says (I'm sure they have different opinions between them), but while you're learning from them, trust them.

On one level, this means trusting that they're not out to destroy your faith, and not being defensive about some (more or less informed) opinion that you hold going into the class. Also, realize that different areas of theology have different methods and while at in the end you want to integrate everything you learn (and integrate it with your faith life), these things might end up being a little separate for a while. Appreciate the academy for itself first, and then learn how it ultimately serves (and fails to -- as a fallen and redeemed thing) the kingdom.

It also means trust your teachers when they tell you what to read. Don't triage readings unless you really need to; but don't feel you have to add a whole bunch of extra stuff unless you're working on a research paper. Hence, I'm not going to give any reading suggestions.

Finally, enjoy it!

Posted by Hart (# 4991) on :

OK, I really did mean that about reading suggestions... for about 2 minutes, but now I've cracked. (See what I mean about enjoying it).

Your first priority should be a good one volume biblical commentary. I have the New Jerome and the Harper Collins on my shelf and go to them regularly. That way, any time you're reading a scripture text for a class, you can do it in a more informed way, and without shelling out a ton for a commentary on each book.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Custard:
A friend of mine put together this advice for exactly your situation. It's worth a look.

That's a really good set of advice.

Although i didn't go to uni as an evangelical, much of it would have applied to me as an anglo-catholic.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
Study something more practical than theology.

I am tempted to be very rude about this comment but I'll avoid saying that theology is the queen of the sciences and simply say that theologians are a scarce and precious resource and are much needed in the world. There is so much devious rubbish being presented as if it were orthodox Christianity, by some televangelists who con people out of vast sums and who stir up guilt; and by 'scholars' of other disciplines who get paid vast sums for presenting dubious scholarship as if it were groundbreaking evidence of some 'cover up' that is supposed to 'explode' Christianity.

Ordinary people haven't the time to mug up on theology (work, family, commitments) and they need guidance - many live unhappy lives because there is a mismatch between belief and experience and it is our duty as ministers, as theologically literate, to shepherd them.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:

quote:
Originally posted by SusanDoris:
Good luck with your studies. I don't know anything about the work involved in this, but I wonder if you will come up against the definition of theology as the study of nothing ? If you do, and if you have the time, I would be most interested to know how it is dealt with.
Very helpful. If you take this view to heart, you may as well not bother.

Let's start again. For C of E'rs, I'd recommend some of the Lion handbooks, such as "The History of Christianity," "The World's Religions" and John Drane's introduction of the Old/New Testaments.

I recommend these because they are informative, well illustrated, and an easy and enjoyable read. Why should theology be a laborious task?
Oh Mark you make me laugh.

As if anyone seriously studying for a batchelor degree would be reading a Lion handbook.

I'd hope that any theology undergraduate rather quickly progresses beyond that level.

Indeed - though, in defence of Lion, their books used to be awful and biased but they are now producing some very good stuff.

Just don't put it in your bibliography at the end of an essay.

Posted by Maureen Lash (# 17192) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
York St John University

I am perplexed as to why you have posted an unrelated link to a Mickey Mouse University. What exactly are you trying to tell us?

Posted by Poppy (# 2000) on :

Learning styles come into play with introductory texts. I like to get a nice general overview before jumping into primary sources so Lion, 'A' level text books or similar work for me. Other people like to start with fine detail and build up to a overview. Work out what you need and adapt your reading list strategy accordingly.

If you have to provide annotated bibliographies, putting in an overview text with a nice reflective, self aware understanding of how you learn should add a few points to your overall mark.

[ 01. October 2012, 16:35: Message edited by: Poppy ]

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

my 2 cents:

1. While Karl Barth may have some interesting things to say, it's not worth the considerable effort it will take to parse his sentences. Life is too short.

2. Alister McGrath, otoh, is superb at providing straightforward, readable summaries of the range of opinion on a number of topics of theological debate.

Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Maureen Lash:

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
York St John University
I am perplexed as to why you have posted an unrelated link to a Mickey Mouse University. What exactly are you trying to tell us?

Perhaps you'll have better luck with what I'm trying to tell you: This looks an awful lot like a personal attack to me. Put a cork in it.

--Tom Clune, Purgatory Host

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

Mickey Mouse University?

Well, Disney World has everything else. So, Disney founding a university makes perfect sense. I hope the need for student housing doesn't raise the price of lodging at the park too dramatically.

On the other hand, I'm surprised MMU offers a degree in theology. I'm even more surprised Mudfrog is taking classes there. Walt Disney was a Congregationalist. So, the majority of the MMU theology faculty must be from the Reformed tradition. Mudfrog is decidedly Wesleyan. What gives?

Posted by Gramps49 (# 16378) on :

I agree with Beeswax on this one. Study something more practical than theology. My major was actually psychology with a minor in religous studies.

But if you must, I would agree, get a good grounding in Koine Greek. Also have an understanding of the Biblical Hebrew. Doesn't hurt to know Latin and/or German as well.

Church history is great--one interresting book I picked up was A People's History of the Christian Church. While most Christian Histories talk about the great theologians and movements that have been in the church, A People's History talks about how common people contributed to the church.

Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :

BA, I have intervened on this post already. Please don't pile on.

--Tom Clune, Purgatory Host

Posted by Qoheleth. (# 9265) on :

I came to academic theology from an engineering degree 30 years previous. If the OP does not already have experience in the humanities (theology = humanity [Confused]

), be prepared for the culture shock. [Big Grin]

Plus what the others said about McGrath and contemplative prayer; you don't often get them both in the same sentence!

Posted by Beeswax Altar (# 11644) on :

quote:
Originally posted by tclune:
BA, I have intervened on this post already. Please don't pile on.

--Tom Clune, Purgatory Host

Sorry, I x-posted with you.

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Maureen Lash:

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
York St John University
I am perplexed as to why you have posted an unrelated link to a Mickey Mouse University. What exactly are you trying to tell us?

To reply to you with unmerited grace, I put this as an answer to Evensong who asked where I got my degree, a College or University.

It might not be an Oxford or a Durham, but it certainly isn't worth the insult it was afforded.

And I don't believe that its Chancellor, the Archbishop of York, who presented me with my degree in York Minster, would think so too.

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

Maureen Lash:

quote:
I am perplexed as to why you have posted an unrelated link to a Mickey Mouse University. What exactly are you trying to tell us?

I am perplexed as to why you have called Mudfrog's alma mater a "Mickey Mouse University" without explanation. What exactly are you trying to tell us besides that you have distaste for that institution and his choice of it?

ETA: cross-post. Mudfrog answered much more graciously to the slur than I would have.

[ 01. October 2012, 18:45: Message edited by: Lyda*Rose ]

Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :

Hostly Hat ON
Folks seem to have trouble with this, so let me say it plainly: Drop this subject NOW. If you wish to discuss studying theology, you are free to do so. If you just can't keep off Mudfrog's alma mater, take it somewhere else. This topic is closed in Purgatory.

--Tom Clune, Purgatory Host
Hostly Hat OFF

Posted by Lyda*Rose (# 4544) on :

Whoops! Sorry- really bad cross-post. Sorry about that, hosts. [Frown]

Posted by Schroedinger's cat (# 64) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:
Exactly - stagflation was looking for good introductory reading, not intellectual gobbledegook!
I stand by my point that the Lion handbooks are no use for an undergraduate in theology.

Well, in my undergraduate theology course, it was one of the reference books recommended to have and use.

Yes it is limited, but then part of the purpose of theology study is to learn how to read and extract relevant information, even if the entire book may not be appropriate.

If you start your study by being snobby about what books you consider have "acceptable" insight and which don't, you will never learn anything. If you can learn to read theology in everything, then you will have learned one of the greatest truths ever.

Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
To reply to you with unmerited grace

Isn't that a tautology, Mudfrog? [Biased]

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:

quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
To reply to you with unmerited grace
Isn't that a tautology, Mudfrog?

Indeed, with the emphasis on the almost unnecessary 'unmerited'; a word I felt I would like to emphasise. [Biased]

Posted by stagflation (# 14061) on :

Again thank you to everyone who has contributed their thoughts. I will reply to specific questions but must ask you bear with me till Wednesday when I will have time to do this. First lecture today and first bit of Aquinas. Both enjoyable.

Posted by Maureen Lash (# 17192) on :

Heythrop is in fact the only English University which still offers an BA course in Theology, rather than 'Theology & Religious Studies', - a new re-designation to which even Durham and Oxford have capitulated. This is because at Heythrop the Theology department doesn't have to keep justifying its existence to people in labcoats with rows of pens in the top pocket.

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Maureen Lash:
Heythrop is in fact the only English University which still offers an BA course in Theology, rather than 'Theology & Religious Studies', - a new re-designation to which even Durham and Oxford have capitulated. This is because at Heythrop the Theology department doesn't have to keep justifying its existence to people in labcoats with rows of pens in the top pocket.

Admin Tiara On

A less charitable Admin might think that you're attempting to continue sniping at Mudfrog's university after being explicitly told not to by a Host and hoping that no one will notice ... Which is neither big nor clever.

Admin tiara off

Tubbs

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

Give the teacher whatever answers the teacher wants so you can get the degree, but don't believe any of it unless you have your own prayerful reasons. [Smile]

Posted by Maureen Lash (# 17192) on :

Heythrop is where Stagflation is studying.

Posted by Mudfrog (# 8116) on :

It looks like a good place to study. Lots going on and, like YSJ, has evolved from a specialist college in very recent years, to become part of a university.

Stagflation, I'm almost jealous that you're starting and I have finished. A year later I still miss the studying, the camaraderie between the students. I hope you have an excellent time and enjoy the elation and sense of achievement that Graduation Day will bring - it will come sooner than you think.

Posted by Maureen Lash (# 17192) on :

It has been part of the federal University of London since 1971. Before that it was federated to the Gregorian University in Rome.

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Give the teacher whatever answers the teacher wants so you can get the degree, but don't believe any of it unless you have your own prayerful reasons.

(With or without the smiley) in my opinion the above is an approach with zero integrity. There's no point in even beginning a course of any kind if one adopted this as a study method.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Give the teacher whatever answers the teacher wants so you can get the degree, but don't believe any of it unless you have your own prayerful reasons.
(With or without the smiley) in my opinion the above is an approach with zero integrity. There's no point in even beginning a course of any kind if one adopted this as a study method.

I have to say, it struck me the same way.

We should of course, set aside childish gullibility that assumes that everything we read or hear in a course of study is infallible truth. But to go into it with the opposite assumption-- that there is nothing of value save the odd miraculous word of knowledge-- seems dangerously prideful and willfully ignorant.

Hopefully, you have chosen to study at a place where you have reason to believe there are humble men and women worthy of being mentors to you on your journey. Not everyone there, perhaps, but most-- surely some, at least. And they will introduce you, through literature and podcasts and media, to other worthy mentors. That is why God has given us community-- so that we can learn from one another. So we can see beyond our own blindspots and so discover the truth of God hidden right there in the text that was in front of us all along.

I would advice instead that you open your heart and be willing to hear something new-- with discernment, of course.

[ 01. October 2012, 21:54: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

Posted by Enoch (# 14322) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Give the teacher whatever answers the teacher wants so you can get the degree, but don't believe any of it unless you have your own prayerful reasons.
(With or without the smiley) in my opinion the above is an approach with zero integrity. There's no point in even beginning a course of any kind if one adopted this as a study method.

You don't think there might be a note of irony there? I thought the smiley might be some sort of signal.

Posted by Mark Betts (# 17074) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Give the teacher whatever answers the teacher wants so you can get the degree, but don't believe any of it unless you have your own prayerful reasons.
(With or without the smiley) in my opinion the above is an approach with zero integrity. There's no point in even beginning a course of any kind if one adopted this as a study method.

I'm not sure I'd go along with that. You will hear all sorts of strange beliefs in a theology course, some of which may seem to you like outright heresy (maybe they are.) So you need to have a firm grounding for your faith to begin with, and to maintain it throughout the course. To be of any use to the Church and its members, you need to have personal integrity - that is more important.

[ 01. October 2012, 22:10: Message edited by: Mark Betts ]

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Give the teacher whatever answers the teacher wants so you can get the degree, but don't believe any of it unless you have your own prayerful reasons.
(With or without the smiley) in my opinion the above is an approach with zero integrity. There's no point in even beginning a course of any kind if one adopted this as a study method.
You don't think there might be a note of irony there? I thought the smiley might be some sort of signal.

Ah! sometimes I'm slooooow.
[Hot and Hormonal]

Posted by EJ. (# 9063) on :

(Re: back to study of theology, esp. Greek and other ancient languages)

My recommendation was probably due to my neck of the woods (not in English-speaking world); if you go study for a BA in theology here you're more or less required to take at least a smattering of Greek, Latin and/or Hebrew. I'm recommending taking it more than that. [Smile]

(Well, that's what I did when I found out I enjoyed studying the "dead" languages a great deal. It got somewhat out of hand and I ended up studying all the Greek I could. [Roll Eyes]

)

Posted by Tubbs (# 440) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Maureen Lash:
Heythrop is where Stagflation is studying.

quote:
Originally posted by Maureen Lash:
It has been part of the federal University of London since 1971. Before that it was federated to the Gregorian University in Rome.

Admin Tiara On

So?!

The OP asked for book recommendations, some advice about maintaining your faith whilst studying and suggestions about how to get the best out of your time at college. A Host has formally told posters to stick to this topic – and drop the tangent about the merits of specific colleges.

I have some recommended reading for you - The Ship's 10 Commandents - - paying close attention to 4 and 6. That’s the theory; you seem to be having a little difficulty with the practical application, but hopefully a re-read will help with that. If not, I’ll try you on the advanced course, with a compulsory sabbatical.

Admin Tiara Off

Tubbs

Posted by Jengie Jon (# 273) on :

I am going to add something, this is personal study, my understanding is Heythrop College has a religious basis. The big task is to engage and trust the process. In a sense you have asked the Holy Spirit to work through a specific mechanism, it can but there are any number of students who fight a trench battle against the tools it uses in the name of keeping their faith (i.e. the set of beliefs they started with). If you enter honestly into this engagement then your faith will not be the same when you have finished, it should have deepened. You don’t need to agree with all your tutors say, you do need to know why you disagree and be prepared to make the case.

There will be some among your tutors who seem to delight in picking on pet doctrines and unsettling them. They are not trying to undermine your faith but get you to put it on a better intellectual basis by getting you to look as the assumptions you hold and seeing whether they really are justified in holding them. If not how should you modify them. Engage honestly with the challenge and hopefully light will come. Often someone openly struggling will find these very teachers the ones with most patience.

Do not be scared to pray about your struggles, but also try to engage rather than withdraw from the challenges laid down, they are there to lead you forward. The laboratory for a doctor of the church is the life of faith lived out in a community of faith. It is the engagement of their learning within that laboratory that creates a theology of the Church and not a private one.

From a personal perspective when a theologian cites a Social Theorist, please go and check that that is what the social theorist actually said. A secondary overview would be a starting point, then selective original sources.

Jengie

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Give the teacher whatever answers the teacher wants so you can get the degree, but don't believe any of it unless you have your own prayerful reasons.
(With or without the smiley) in my opinion the above is an approach with zero integrity. There's no point in even beginning a course of any kind if one adopted this as a study method.
You don't think there might be a note of irony there? I thought the smiley might be some sort of signal.

Yeah, I thought there might be which is why I referred to the smiley. But - whether Belle Ringer was being ironic or not - some people do indeed adopt this attitude to their studies. I've seen it first hand the 'I'll give them what they want but nothing's going to change me' approach. AFAIC, this wastes their own time and everybody else's, as well as missing any number of valuable opportunities to develop and learn - not just specific academic ideas.

I was working on the premise that the OPer wasn't being forced against their will to do this course, so wanted to do it - possibly even chose his or her course or college and expected to receive something godly and helpful from it. So in that case an approach of reluctance to engage would seem irrational at the very least.

Mark Betts is right that sometimes you'll come across ideas which don't jibe with your faith, or sit with your own integrity. And sometimes you do feel that you have to 'hang on' to what seems real to you. But again I would say that that's part of the usefulness of engaging with a course rather than trying to operate some kind of duplicitous 'this is me when I'm writing essays - and this is me when I'm suiting myself' way of doing things.

I certainly didn't agree with everything up for consumption at theological college; but presenting essays which demonstrate an understanding of other viewpoints, while maintaining and arguing for one's own position is not only do-able; it's pretty essential if one is actually to develop a true integrity of theological approach. Just my thoughts on it.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

I never studied academic theology in my life, so I can't recommend specific books. But I do work in a university, and I've done two degrees as a mature student so I've got some feel for it. And I think I would recommed reading around the subject. Get background. Don't try to pre-empt the course itself, but read books to keep you interested, or fill in gaps, or provide an overview. Including popular books like the Lion ones - obviously they aren't textbooks and they aren't at a university level, but you won't be using them as a textbooks, but as general reading.

I studied biology. If a David Attenborough documentary came on the TV did I watch it? Of course I did! When I watched it sometimes I thought "Hey, that's just exactly what we were talking about last week!" Sometimes I recognised or anticipated the topic of the film, or had read some research that lay behind it, and got a suitably smug feeling of being In The Know. Sometimes I thought "NO! NO! that's all wrong! and wanted to throw thigns at the TV (not very often because those documentaries are really good). But mostly it was just "Gosh! Wow! Isn't that beautiful!" But did I reference it in in exams? Of course I didn't.

As to what background, I guess that's whatever interests you. I'm a bit of a history fan (not a historian, just a history fan. I don't do history I just like watching it being done) and I get a bit annoyed with preachers and writers about the church who make silly historcal mistakes or repeat unlikely stories without checkign them. So if I was doing theology I'd be tempted to read a bit of history and archaeology, especially of the New Testament period and the later Roman Empire, to get some background to the development of the early church. And maybe some earlier stuff too (it helps to know who the Hittites were. Honest!) But your milege may vary.

There are some suggestions about reading on the Heythrop website which give pretty much that advice for their Greek course.

Posted by tclune (# 7959) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:
But - whether Belle Ringer was being ironic or not - some people do indeed adopt this attitude to their studies. I've seen it first hand the 'I'll give them what they want but nothing's going to change me' approach. AFAIC, this wastes their own time and everybody else's, as well as missing any number of valuable opportunities to develop and learn - not just specific academic ideas.

FWIW, I find the idea of shoveling the shit back at the horse perfectly appropriate. In any field, there are going to be a lot of things required of you that are of the "jumping through hoops" variety. In general, it isn't worth the energy to take a stand and argue against the prof's stupid and self-indulgent position. Just shut up and do the deed.

If that were all that you were doing, you would indeed be wasting your time. But the reality is that academia is filled with folks who expect you to fawn over their genius, whether they can wipe their own noses without instructions or not. Often, these folks are gatekeepers to what you actually care about. Pay the piper and move on.

To a greater or lesser extent, this is what you need to do throughout your life. Turning every petty impediment into a cause celebre may seem heroic when you're young, but it is just counter-productive. You'll never rid the world of all fools -- you won't even manage to avoid being one much of the time. If there's no overarching moral principle involved, go along to get along. It's the adult thing to do.

--Tom Clune

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mark Betts:

quote:
Originally posted by Anselmina:

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
Give the teacher whatever answers the teacher wants so you can get the degree, but don't believe any of it unless you have your own prayerful reasons.
(With or without the smiley) in my opinion the above is an approach with zero integrity. There's no point in even beginning a course of any kind if one adopted this as a study method.
I'm not sure I'd go along with that. You will hear all sorts of strange beliefs in a theology course, some of which may seem to you like outright heresy (maybe they are.) So you need to have a firm grounding for your faith to begin with, and to maintain it throughout the course. To be of any use to the Church and its members, you need to have personal integrity - that is more important.

It's been said more than once that the clergy often hide their own theological beliefs from their congregations, so integrity clearly isn't the be-all and end-all on these matters. It seems to me that they do what they have to do to make their lives less complicated. If they eventually do it in the pulpit, why not in the lecture theatre?

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
]It's been said more than once that the clergy often hide their own theological beliefs from their congregations, so integrity clearly isn't the be-all and end-all on these matters. It seems to me that they do what they have to do to make their lives less complicated. If they eventually do it in the pulpit, why not in the lecture theatre?

Lots of things are "said". Doesn't make them true. (ever hear of urban legends? there are ecclesiastical legends too)

Most clergypersons struggle to communicate a complex and nuanced and living faith in ways that are meaningful to a diverse congregation with vastly differing levels of interest, biblical literacy, and spiritual hunger/need. Most strive, as imperfect people, to do so with integrity and authenticity.

Posted by Brother Oscar (# 17227) on :

I can't help but thinking about the 'You know you're middle aged when...' thread. Since, I appreciate that I am nearing middle age giving advice to a new theology student almost ten years after starting my theology degree.

I'd second much of the advice given on this thread but also suggest that you think about the whole of your experience at University: study, prayer, work, leisure and community.

Prayer since theology is faith seeking understanding and it is prayer that will sustain your faith. By work I mean some sort of mission or voluntary work because you can't study the sermon on the mount without practicing it.* By leisure I mean taking the fun side of being a student as an opportunity to round out your character and broaden your insights. And community because theology is contextual and is matures through relationship and dialogue.

*The systematic theology exam in my finals included a question on the problem of evil. I wrote about what a reading of the Book of Job and an understanding of HIV/AIDS contributes to the problem. I had been campaigning about HIV/AIDS and development aid that year and also reading about bible studies among people living with AIDS in South Africa. It was one of the best papers I wrote.

I would second both the recommendation to ground yourself in the Bible - this may be your only opportunity to concentrate your time around devouring the biblical text. Use it! And learn at least Greek! I'd also second the recommendation to find a theologian that interests you to focus on and use as a starting point. Read 'Fifty Key Christian Thinkers' (McEnhill and Newlands) and stick a pin in...

As to how to keep your faith whilst at university.. you need to be prepared for your reading of scripture to become difficult before it matures. You need to be prepared for your concept of God to be strained before it deepens. Before I went to university I was told that studying theology could take my faith away. Whilst I don't believe exactly the same things now my faith is still living. Deepened, enriched, tried; more nuanced, and indeed more trusting.

[Votive]

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Brother Oscar:

As to how to keep your faith whilst at university.. you need to be prepared for your reading of scripture to become difficult before it matures. You need to be prepared for your concept of God to be strained before it deepens. Before I went to university I was told that studying theology could take my faith away. Whilst I don't believe exactly the same things now my faith is still living. Deepened, enriched, tried; more nuanced, and indeed more trusting.

Yes-- this.

Not a cynical "expect to lose your faith", not a willfully ignorant "don't listen to anything so you don't" nor a utilitarian "you'll lose your faith but pretend you didn't".

Rather, expect your faith to change, deepen and grow in ways that won't always be easy but may possibly be quite good-- and real. Expect to become more, not less, authentic.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
]It's been said more than once that the clergy often hide their own theological beliefs from their congregations, so integrity clearly isn't the be-all and end-all on these matters. It seems to me that they do what they have to do to make their lives less complicated. If they eventually do it in the pulpit, why not in the lecture theatre?
Lots of things are "said". Doesn't make them true. (ever hear of urban legends? there are ecclesiastical legends too)

Most clergypersons struggle to communicate a complex and nuanced and living faith in ways that are meaningful to a diverse congregation with vastly differing levels of interest, biblical literacy, and spiritual hunger/need. Most strive, as imperfect people, to do so with integrity and authenticity.

The people who told me this were clergymen and/or theologians. They should know what they're talking about.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
The people who told me this were clergymen and/or theologians. They should know what they're talking about.

Well, I'm a clergyperson too, and a theology prof. So, by your logic, I should know what I'm talking about.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
]It's been said more than once that the clergy often hide their own theological beliefs from their congregations, so integrity clearly isn't the be-all and end-all on these matters. It seems to me that they do what they have to do to make their lives less complicated. If they eventually do it in the pulpit, why not in the lecture theatre?
Lots of things are "said". Doesn't make them true. (ever hear of urban legends? there are ecclesiastical legends too)

Most clergypersons struggle to communicate a complex and nuanced and living faith in ways that are meaningful to a diverse congregation with vastly differing levels of interest, biblical literacy, and spiritual hunger/need. Most strive, as imperfect people, to do so with integrity and authenticity.
The people who told me this were clergymen and/or theologians. They should know what they're talking about.

O ye of too much faith.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

Leo

There's a certain irony in that comment! How can I focus on the doubts of the clergy and yet be guilty of too much faith?!

I suppose it takes all sorts. In the Methodist church (which is my tradition) it's commonplace to hear different preachers passing through the pulpit each week, on a three month rota, plus the ministers change churches every 5 years, unless an extension is agreed. Not all of these people will project the same aura of spirituality. So perhaps it's easier for Methodists to contemplate the notion that some preachers (lay or clergy) are less authentic in expressing their faith than others. In other traditions (e.g. the CofE?), where only the same small handful of people will preach at a certain church over a long period of time, this idea may seem less palatable.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

I see you've moved from "often" to "some". A world of difference there, IMHO. "Some" I can agree with. "Often" is an unfair charge.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I see you've moved from "often" to "some". A world of difference there, IMHO. "Some" I can agree with. "Often" is an unfair charge.

I've come across the issue several times, in conversation as well as in written material and online, which suggests to me that it's of considerable relevance rather than a minor thing; but I haven't given it close study to ascertain percentages. 'Often' doesn't necessarily mean 'most', though, if that's what you're worrying about.

I understand what you're saying about the difficulties of communicating complexity and nuance to diverse congregations. But the impulse to conceal certain things doesn't necessarily exclude an attempt to communicate useful things in general, it seems to me. So I'm not saying that people are malicious or cynical; the clergy and lay preachers mostly want to be a positive influence, I'm sure!

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:

I understand what you're saying about the difficulties of communicating complexity and nuance to diverse congregations. But the impulse to conceal certain things doesn't necessarily exclude an attempt to communicate useful things in general, it seems to me. So I'm not saying that people are malicious or cynical; the clergy and lay preachers mostly want to be a positive influence, I'm sure!

Glad to hear it. That was not at all what your initial statement implied-- I don't think that's just me.

Posted by SvitlanaV2 (# 16967) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:

I understand what you're saying about the difficulties of communicating complexity and nuance to diverse congregations. But the impulse to conceal certain things doesn't necessarily exclude an attempt to communicate useful things in general, it seems to me. So I'm not saying that people are malicious or cynical; the clergy and lay preachers mostly want to be a positive influence, I'm sure!
Glad to hear it. That was not at all what your initial statement implied-- I don't think that's just me.

Yes, I can see that. To be honest, I do think the job is somewhat problematic (and that's not 'just me' either!) because it requires a wish to help people while at the same time not confusing or upsetting them. That combination, I think, doesn't always lead to openness. And yes, I feel that the individual priest, who's already overworked, will probably want to prevent creating too much anxiety in his/her flock, because that'll make the job harder. I can sympathise with that, even if I'm a somewhat uneasy about it.

Posted by stagflation (# 14061) on :

Slightly later than planned here is a response to everything that has been said. First, thank you. I am very grateful that so many of you we're ready to share your thoughts on this topic. Many, many good suggestions and as it would seem like favouritism to single out specifics I will just say that I appreciated near enough every one offered. Now I've chosen my option it turns out I will be studying New Testament Greek. The other modules are History of Christianity, Intro to Theology and Biblical Foundations. Heythrop is a former Seminary established 400 years ago so there are a lot of trainee priests and the odd Nun about but I also have a few evangelicals on my course. I'm enjoying it all immensely. As a mature student I'm aware how blessed I am to have a chance to study and the atmosphere at the College is very warm and welcoming. So thank you Shipmates and if you feel that your question has been lost in my general answer please feel free to contact me.

Posted by Patdys (# 9397) on :

Few thoughts.

Your study is a blessing and a privilege.
You may find your faith deconstructed and then (hopefully) rebuilt. If that is the case, be gentle with your friends who have not had the same opportunity and still believe what you used to believe.

If you come from a science background, humanities is a very different animal. Learn to write humanity speak. And accept that clear concise scientific writing may be completely illegible to those with a different background. Words have different meanings in different fields of study.

Enjoy and explore ideas. Especially explore those who believe tosh; get as much exposure to different expressions of Christianity as you can. It will certainly inform your own faith.

Posted by leo (# 1458) on :

quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Leo

There's a certain irony in that comment!

It was meant ironically!

Posted by sebby (# 15147) on :

I have read that you intend to study at Heythrop. That is an excellent college with academic rigour applied to theology - and philosophy - with a Jesuit foundation. It will bne theology rather than religious studies, and will require you to get your brain in gear.

Every good wish. It is the sort of college that has a variety of challenging studies in the sacred sciences that I wish was explored by those responsible for devising noddy CofE regional ministerial courses.

Posted by Oferyas (# 14031) on :

Amen to what Sebby says. My OH reckons there are two types of ministry training courses in the C of E: the advanced one where you get to draw a saint as well as colour him in, and the standard one, where the outline is already provided.......

UBB.classic^TM 6.5.0