Ship of Fools: What Facebook tells you about your friends

Thread: What Facebook tells you about your friends Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :

If you're on Facebook, I'm sure it's happened to you. You're skimming through your news feed, looking at pictures of cute kittens, photos from your best friend's cousin's wedding, and YouTube videos of someone's favorite song.

And then you see it. A bright yellow poster with the words, "Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give him a welfare check, crack pipe, a free cell phone, a six-pack of beer, and a pair of Air Jordan's, and he'll vote Democrat for a lifetime."

Or a poster saying that neither Muslims nor people who wear magic underwear are qualified to be President.

Or some other equally ignorant and offensive political message, something you think is entirely beyond the pale.

And you look at the icon next to the post, and you realize that it really is a friend of yours who posted it. It's your neighbor. Or someone you attend church with. A former schoolmate. Someone who, until this very moment, you liked and thought well of.

What do you do? Do you ignore it? Unfriend the person? Comment on their post to explain why they're wronger than a wrong thing? Try to shame them?

When you see them again, how do you deal with what you've learned about them?

Posted by Ronald Binge (# 9002) on :

Happened with one of my friends, they had a link to a Daily Mail article regarding Welfare spongers, I linked to a Guardian one about seriously ill people being chucked off benefits.

Noone took any offence.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

I have a lot of friends who I disagree with, politically. I assume they are being as tolerant with what they are seeing on my (pretty unabashed) feed as I am with them.

The couple times I have drawn the line, though was with a couple family members (unfortunately) who posted blatantly racist and scathingly misogynistic stuff. I just used the settings to remove them from my feed-- unfriending them would have cause a family drama I didn't want to suffer.(And it occurs to me that the reason I haven't gone through this with my friends is that I am lucky enough to know folk who don't do stuff like that. [Big Grin]

)

I can cope with he fact that people are going to disagree with me. The only time I have actually taken the step of unfriending someone is

1. I have gotten the feeling that they couldn't care less anyway. That my attempts to interact with them are met with irritation. I won't keep bothering someone who acts like my friendliness is a burden.

2. They start hassling my friends.

I came really close a while back, when someone I consider an acquaintance took a dive at a friend I've had for thirty years. And not just any friend, but one of the coolest guys I know. Luckily for the person in question, my 30-year friend managed to smooth things over.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:

And you look at the icon next to the post, and you realize that it really is a friend of yours who posted it. It's your neighbor. Or someone you attend church with. A former schoolmate. Someone who, until this very moment, you liked and thought well of.

What do you do? Do you ignore it? Unfriend the person? Comment on their post to explain why they're wronger than a wrong thing? Try to shame them?

So they have an opinion. So what? If I agree I sometimes say something or just click the "like" thingy. If not, I just let them say their piece. Well, unless it is really bad. In that case, I sometimes will post an offer to let them buy me a beer in the hopes it will help them feel better.

quote:
When you see them again, how do you deal with what you've learned about them?

Why do I have to deal with it? Is there someone I know that I've mistakenly thought was perfect up til now?

Are you all that certain you don't have facebook friends who think you might be more than a bit wacky yourself?

Surely you don't really think it is your purpose in life to go around straightening out folks all the time.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ronald Binge:
Happened with one of my friends, they had a link to a Daily Mail article regarding Welfare spongers, I linked to a Guardian one about seriously ill people being chucked off benefits.

Noone took any offence.

Yep, this is a tactic I use, too. I'm not gonna wade onto someone's page and scold them for what they've posted-- not that I haven't done that once or twice, but it never yields good results IME-- but by golly I got a status bar of my own!

Posted by Comper's Child (# 10580) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
If you're on Facebook, I'm sure it's happened to you. You're skimming through your news feed, looking at pictures of cute kittens, photos from your best friend's cousin's wedding, and YouTube videos of someone's favorite song.

And then you see it. A bright yellow poster with the words, "Teach a man to fish, and he'll eat for a day. Give him a welfare check, crack pipe, a free cell phone, a six-pack of beer, and a pair of Air Jordan's, and he'll vote Democrat for a lifetime."

Almost verbatim but then I realise it's my first cousin. Mad as a hatter.

Posted by Arethosemyfeet (# 17047) on :

Do you value the friendship of that person more than the issue? Is it a one off or is there a pattern of being an arsehole?

One of my friends from university is a tory, and I have no problem slapping down his Daily Heil articles, because that's what I did when I knew him in person. We argued about politics all the time. Another friend from uni, who I largely agreed with politically, is gay and is determined that anything short of immediate and total equal marriage is a sign of homophobia. I drew attention in my feed to the contrast between the CofE and SEC responses to the same sex marriage consultation, and he condemned both as bigoted. He's not really up for discussing it, and he's fairly anti-religion anyway, so now I tend to hide posts I make from him just to keep the peace. Another friend of mine has a more conservative attitude to homosexuality than I do and we now ignore posts we each make about it because it's not something we can discuss amicably over facebook. In person, perhaps, but not online.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
Another friend from uni, who I largely agreed with politically, is gay and is determined that anything short of immediate and total equal marriage is a sign of homophobia. I drew attention in my feed to the contrast between the CofE and SEC responses to the same sex marriage consultation, and he condemned both as bigoted. He's not really up for discussing it, and he's fairly anti-religion anyway, so now I tend to hide posts I make from him just to keep the peace. Another friend of mine has a more conservative attitude to homosexuality than I do and we now ignore posts we each make about it because it's not something we can discuss amicably over facebook. In person, perhaps, but not online.

I've hidden my posts from people, too. Why give them ulcers? It's social media, not the Bill Mahr show.

There are a few people that I am willing to take on on Facebook, but they are people with whom I have developed a lot of mutual trust and respect-- basically, people who have actively worked enough on the same for me to feel secure that my arguments will be taken with our mutual good will in mind.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
it's not something we can discuss amicably over facebook.

It must be because of the lack of anonymity on facebook that I've never seen anyone get out of line.

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

Happens to me most every day-- often multiple times. Usually I will jump in and challenge it, particularly if it is repeating a known lie.

And, I suppose my friends would say it happens to them all the time (meaning me). I get way too snarky and political and ranting on fb. I did set a goal of limiting myself to just one snarky left-wing political rant per day-- what I refer to as my "daily snark". Having a hard time sticking to that as the election heats up. (Sometimes I have to go back and delete a daily snark to make room for a better snark that comes along).

The above is descriptive, btw, not prescriptive. I offer it as the honest answer to your question, but certainly not as an example to follow. In my defense I can only say that I have never, ever, not once posted a picture of a cat doing something adorable.

Posted by Niteowl (# 15841) on :

Pretty much my entire family think nothing of posting offensive racial stuff, either about Obama or illegal immigration. Then there's "the gay agenda"... I haven't been on Facebook for about 2 years though my profile is still up. I keep thinking one of these days I'm going to put a good post refuting the nonsense, but then why bother? Not to mention the holidays are coming and I don't want the awkward family dinner.

Posted by churchgeek (# 5557) on :

I had some old acquaintances who were constantly appearing every time I made a post relating to my (liberal) politics. Their comments were always completely sarcastic and mocking of my views. And yet when I posted about my bipolar disorder or when I broke my elbow (including photos of all the bruising), not a peep from these people - which surprised me; both are Evangelicals, one is even a chaplain - I'd have thought they'd express sympathy or prayers or something.

So when I mentioned this, one of them started commenting nicely on some of my more mundane posts or health-related posts, but he still was a bit snarky on my political posts. The other just got huffy about it. When I pointed out to her that I don't post comments on her political views, she told me I do take offense at her views, I just do it "proactively." I can't imagine what that means except perhaps that she was referring to my posting anything about liberal politics.

At any rate, both of them seem convinced now that I'm not willing to think about other views or to engage in debate, which isn't true - but at least it's got them leaving me alone now. [Two face]

As for things my friends post - so far I haven't seen anything truly offensive, thank God. Sometimes I've posted a link to snopes or some similar site to correct misinformation; I always appreciate it when people do the same for me. One friend deleted my comments and kept her wrong info up; that blew me away but I just ignored it.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
I had some old acquaintances who were constantly appearing every time I made a post relating to my (liberal) politics. Their comments were always completely sarcastic and mocking of my views. And yet when I posted about my bipolar disorder or when I broke my elbow (including photos of all the bruising), not a peep from these people - which surprised me; both are Evangelicals, one is even a chaplain - I'd have thought they'd express sympathy or prayers or something.

Yeah, that kind of figured into my Criteria Number 1 with some of the people I blocked or de-friend ed-- not a kind word to offer me, but an opportunity to sneer at a mistake? Right there. An unnecessary political jibe? Can't wait! Unkind remark about a photo? So glad I can oblige!

My sis and I spent an evening pretty much trash talking each other on FB and loving it-- and the reason we can do this is that we spend a whole lot more time bonding in more socially accepted ways than we do horsing around like that. Pet peeve of mine is when someone rides up and assumes "cheap shot" privileges when they have done no work to earn them. That goes for personal comments and unnecessarily inflammatory political baiting.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
And, I suppose my friends would say it happens to them all the time (meaning me). I get way too snarky and political and ranting on fb. I did set a goal of limiting myself to just one snarky left-wing political rant per day-- what I refer to as my "daily snark". Having a hard time sticking to that as the election heats up. (Sometimes I have to go back and delete a daily snark to make room for a better snark that comes along).

I admire your willingness to be honest about this, but I have to say, unless you post some pretty good other content, one political rant a day qualifies you for my "hide from feed" list. (Which, incidentally, is a nice way of handling this situation. The way I see it, if you are constantly posting political content on facebook, I probably don't want to debate you, because you are either completely set in your views, a troll, or a little of both, and either way it wouldn't be worth the frustration.)

Posted by cliffdweller (# 13338) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
And, I suppose my friends would say it happens to them all the time (meaning me). I get way too snarky and political and ranting on fb. I did set a goal of limiting myself to just one snarky left-wing political rant per day-- what I refer to as my "daily snark". Having a hard time sticking to that as the election heats up. (Sometimes I have to go back and delete a daily snark to make room for a better snark that comes along).
I admire your willingness to be honest about this, but I have to say, unless you post some pretty good other content, one political rant a day qualifies you for my "hide from feed" list. (Which, incidentally, is a nice way of handling this situation. The way I see it, if you are constantly posting political content on facebook, I probably don't want to debate you, because you are either completely set in your views, a troll, or a little of both, and either way it wouldn't be worth the frustration.)

I suspect I am hidden from more than a few people's daily feed, for precisely those very reasonable reasons.

Posted by Goar (# 3939) on :

I really wish my Facebook friends on both the left and right would drop all the political talk. It is nothing more than sloganeering and does not lend itself to respectful dialogue. I'd say 90% of those who post political items on Facebook are the ones who have made up their minds and are not at all open to real dialogue.

If I had such clarity and were zealous about my politics I would probably try to use Facebook for free advertising for the candidate of my choice. But I do not.

I am not going to defriend anyone for their Facebook idiocy. At least I now know the truth about who they are and where they stand.

I treat Facebook as a venue for generally pleasant and entirely shallow interaction. It's not SoF Purgatory. It's a means for me to distribute photos of the Rudlets and our ongoings to friends and family, or to say "attaboy" or "hang in there" when someone needs it, or to check in briefly with an overly simplistic status update.

I have to manage my expectations of Facebook and my acquaintances.

What do I do? Nothing. Live and let live. I try to remember that everyone is simply doing the best they can with what they have.

Posted by Bullfrog. (# 11014) on :

Depends on the friend. I have some conservative friends I enjoy sparring with (and occasionally learn something from) and others for whom I've learned to simply ignore the post because I know from experience that the conversation will only lead to great aggravation for all parties involved.

Besides, I'm sure I have a similar effect on some of my friends.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

I think whether it's a pattern is a factor.

I have a German-American Facebook friend, who I knew for quite a few years when she lived here in Australia but haven't seen for quite a long time now.

She's Republican, and clearly more conservative than me in many respects. I can handle that.

What I'm beginning to find hard to handle is her apparent obsession with the topic of abortion. It seems like 3/4 of her posts are links or repostings of material about anti-abortion campaigns. Many are about people who are 'failed abortions' or who were adopted rather than aborted, and their testimonies.

I'm seriously considering whether to unfriend her. And this is despite the fact that my own views on abortion are actually rather conservative (the difference being that I don't think my views should be enforceable as a matter of law). I'm just becoming heartily sick of the use of Facebook as a 1-topic political platform, not least for an issue that isn't even a political issue in my own country.

Posted by Belle Ringer (# 13379) on :

I'm not on Facebook. Is it possible to unfriend someone as to certain topics or certain kinds of posts?

Anyway, the OP problem is nothing new, I get the most extreme right wing anti-anything that isn't his definition of Christian, Obama is a Muslim, etc emails from a guy who in person is sweet, intelligent, talented, outgoing, entertaining, and never mentions politics. You'd think he and his emails were two different people.

Emails -- just delete unread. Can one do that with things others send to a facebook page? Just delete and go on as if those posts never existed?

Posted by Spike (# 36) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
So they have an opinion. So what? If I agree I sometimes say something or just click the "like" thingy. If not, I just let them say their piece. Well, unless it is really bad. In that case, I sometimes will post an offer to let them buy me a beer in the hopes it will help them feel better.

If they're really expressing an opinion then that's fine. The trouble is that a lot of the posts of the type to which Josphine referred in the OP are simply copied and pasted without any thought whatsoever. The worst are the ones about Muslims trying to ban poppies/Christmas decorations/England football shirts (delete as applicable) for being racist but have no basis in fact. Like Josephine, I am often saddened that it is often intelligent people who get taken in by that crap.

Posted by the long ranger (# 17109) on :

I'd suggest that facebook is not really about communication but about wearing badges. And to some extent, people post things onto facebook in 'broadcast' rather than 'communication' mode.

My perception is that friends I knew well around a dozen or more years ago drift into facebook friends, whom I barely communicate with at all. I have had a blazing row with someone I knew and liked very much about something they posted about me, which resulted in a broken relationship as I never spoke to them again. In thinking about the episode now, years after the event, I conclude that we had drifted apart but were attempting to communicate as if we were as close as we once were. We were actually different people and had less in common than we once had.

I don't know about how communication works on facebook with people you regularly see as I haven't used it for years.

Twitter, it seems to me, can also be used in a 'broadcast' mode, but is also used by far more people who do not know each other in real life (or not very well), so communication is possible in real time on real issues.

Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
I'd suggest that facebook is not really about communication but about wearing badges. And to some extent, people post things onto facebook in 'broadcast' rather than 'communication' mode.

That's an interesting thought. I suspect you're right. I know, in some of the communication theory I've read lately, there's significant support for the idea that argument isn't about finding out what's true, it's about defining groups, group membership, and group hierarchy. Facebook posts as "badges" intended to broadcast which group you belong to would fit in with that model pretty well. And it does seem to describe the way many people post.

In fact, it sometimes seems to me that some people want to find an opinion that not only ensures that they are in the "in group," but that people they don't like are in the "out group." So, for example, some religious believers (and non-believers) seem to think that the highest priority is to ensure that they're clearly distinguished from each other. Looking for areas of common beliefs is impossible. If These Folks assert X, then Those Folks will assert Y, not because of the facts or the logic, but simply because they need to prove that These Folks and Those Folks are different.

Are there any opinions, religious, political, or other, that your friends have expressed online that you think are completely beyond the pale? I understand shrugging off some ideas as being mere differences of opinion, or even factual errors, that have no significance to the relationship. But are there opinions that a friend might express, or has expressed, that you find so repugnant that it has caused you to think twice about their friendship?

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

I've at least one acquaintance (friend of a friend thing) who specializes in posting up streams of info about earthquakes, famines and anti-Obama stuff because in his particular line of Pentacostalism he's counting down to the end of the world. So his posts often lead to a tail of 'Hallelujah, brother' and AMENs in capitals with many exclamation marks. Rabidly pro-Israel, anti-Muslim he really pushed my buttons to begin with. Though I wouldn't really reply, except for the things I could affirm or safely and quietly challenge. I don't see FB as a forum for thorough debate.

He has a heart of gold, and does some great volunteer work overseas, and I reckoned that if I didn't have room for him I would probably be just as intolerant, in some ways, as I'm accusing him of being.

Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
I'd suggest that facebook is not really about communication but about wearing badges. And to some extent, people post things onto facebook in 'broadcast' rather than 'communication'

That's an important point. Someone called Facebook "the world's biggest coffee hour."

We smile, most people smile, most people are polite. Some need a hug, or a poke. We say a few words and then go and smile at the next person. Very public. Twitter seems even MORE open and public, so most people are clean-shaven and have checked their make-up.

The only way to truly communicate is by private messaging.

That's why I too am shocked along with Josephine and others whose friends, neighbours, colleagues, the lady across the aisle at church, the cousin-in-law, and so on who post vulgar, stupid, sophomoric, racist, blatantly unchristian posts and links despising the President, the poor, Muslims, and other Christians.

I don't get it.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Spike:

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
So they have an opinion. So what? If I agree I sometimes say something or just click the "like" thingy. If not, I just let them say their piece. Well, unless it is really bad. In that case, I sometimes will post an offer to let them buy me a beer in the hopes it will help them feel better.
If they're really expressing an opinion then that's fine. The trouble is that a lot of the posts of the type to which Josphine referred in the OP are simply copied and pasted without any thought whatsoever. The worst are the ones about Muslims trying to ban poppies/Christmas decorations/England football shirts (delete as applicable) for being racist but have no basis in fact. Like Josephine, I am often saddened that it is often intelligent people who get taken in by that crap.

"The worst" is in the eye of the beholder. I have friends that copy and paste things from the left about their opponent of the day. I think they have been taken in by crap but they don't. So, what do I do? I don't worry about it. It is probably more likely to be hit by lightening than it is for the one vote of my lefty friend to go against who I am for or for my one vote to cause it to go against him. I do prefer my friends feeling comfortable enough around me so they can just lay it out there.

Posted by Jonah the Whale (# 1244) on :

Maybe the culture is different here, but the people I know tend to use fb to keep each other up to date on what they've been up to, post photos etc. I haven't really come across the soap box type or the purgatorial discussion type at all. I think I have one friend who posts a few too many motivational type photos, but they are well-meant and inoffensive and I can easily scroll past them.

Posted by Augustine the Aleut (# 1472) on :

Somehow I have acquired 179 FB friends, but only two are campaigners (Indians of Oaxaca and the other runs the local Hollaback campaign) and a third posts very annoying inspirational material. I occasionally get an e-mail petition and then grumpily let people know that they have no effect and why not write a letter to their MP or to a minister (no postage, and non-campaign letters cause them great trauma).

Posted by the long ranger (# 17109) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:

Are there any opinions, religious, political, or other, that your friends have expressed online that you think are completely beyond the pale? I understand shrugging off some ideas as being mere differences of opinion, or even factual errors, that have no significance to the relationship. But are there opinions that a friend might express, or has expressed, that you find so repugnant that it has caused you to think twice about their friendship?

Well in my case what happened was that my friend told me something, I disagreed and then he decided that because I disagreed with him, I was actually disagreeing with God.

I take/took that kind of thing quite personally.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
Maybe the culture is different here, but the people I know tend to use fb to keep each other up to date on what they've been up to, post photos etc. I haven't really come across the soap box type or the purgatorial discussion type at all. I think I have one friend who posts a few too many motivational type photos, but they are well-meant and inoffensive and I can easily scroll past them.

Same here. When I say friends I mean "about two".
98% of our use is for what you describe.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
Well in my case what happened was that my friend told me something, I disagreed and then he decided that because I disagreed with him, I was actually disagreeing with God.

I take/took that kind of thing quite personally.

You don't have to go online for that. You don't even need electricity. A stick or rock and a bossy attitude is sufficient.

Posted by the long ranger (# 17109) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
You don't have to go online for that. You don't even need electricity. A stick or rock and a bossy attitude is sufficient.

Not sure what your point is here: something was said to me on facebook that made me break the relationship. That was what Josephine asked me.

Posted by lilBuddha (# 14333) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
there's significant support for the idea that argument isn't about finding out what's true, it's about defining groups, group membership, and group hierarchy.

This is the central operating tenet of most human interaction. That and knowing how to manipulate it.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:
You don't have to go online for that. You don't even need electricity. A stick or rock and a bossy attitude is sufficient.
Not sure what your point is here: something was said to me on facebook that made me break the relationship. That was what Josephine asked me.

Oh. It was the statement about disagreeing with me means disagreeing with God. That one's about as old as mankind.

Posted by Mama Thomas (# 10170) on :

But haven't you ever wondered how you could stay friends with a racist? Even before Facebook?

A dear little old granny auntie type that you thought was sweet for years and have given lifts to, kind of know her relatives, etc., suddenly spills forth noxious, racist sentiment about, say, the President of the United States.

Does this not change your view of Granny Auntie?

A cousin or choir member whom you thought "a good guy" suddenly reveals misogynistic remarks--and you somehow immediately know that now arugment will change their little minds.

Suddenly the girl from down the streets posts increasingly homophobic links on Facebook.

Doesn't that change your ideas of these people?

Posted by PerkyEars (# 9577) on :

Finding out where my friends stand religiously and politically is a way to become more tolerant. If someone I like and respect in RL posts a view I'd previously considered the preserve of arseholes, then I might take a second look at that assumption. I've changed my mind in real life on issues (largely moving from the left to the right) through this - seeing intelligent people holding views I'd previously dismissed out of hand. I've also been saved by my left-wing, non-christian friends from lapsing into too much bigotry about 'the left'.

On the other hand if it's a view I'm really happy to dismiss out of hand, and expressed in a particularly offensive and simplistic way, and I don't want to look at it over my morning cuppa, then I'll just 'hide post'.

I've recently deleted most of the old friends I havn't seen in ten years. It seemed pointless and unhealthy to keep those friendships on facebook life-support when I'd rather concentrate on people I have an active, real connection with.

I will sometimes link to an article or post that expresses my views. It is a way of being 'out of the closet' with who I am and what I think. Certain topics though, I've learned generate too much bad feeling. Parenting choices is a good one to avoid - worse than religion or politics for getting people's hackles up!

Posted by Josephine (# 3899) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
But haven't you ever wondered how you could stay friends with a racist? Even before Facebook?

That's sort of what triggered this thread for me. A very dear friend of mine has decided that he cannot morally allow racist or misogynistic or homophobic remarks to pass unchallenged. Doing so makes him, in his mind, complicit in the unjust social structures that allow the bigotry to continue, and to do real harm to real people.

As a result, he's found it almost impossible to be on Facebook.

And I've found myself wondering what the moral limits are to tolerating intolerance or immorality. I've had a couple of people unfriend me (and one even blocked me) because I said positive things about Planned Parenthood. That made me, in their minds, a baby killer, a supporter of infanticide, a deeply evil person.

I don't want to live in a filter bubble, where the only opinions I ever hear are opinions I already agree with. I think it's important, for many reasons, to hear and understand what other people think. Even when I think that what they think is reprehensible. How can you counter it, if you don't know anyone thinks that?

But if you don't say anything, if you don't counter it, are you complicit in their evil? If you don't say anything, and they are left with the impression that you agree with them, does that strenghten them in their views?

I've been thinking about it a lot. And I wanted to know what other people thought, and how others deal with it.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
I'm not on Facebook. Is it possible to unfriend someone as to certain topics or certain kinds of posts?

In theory. I have installed an add-on called Social Fixer that is supposed to filter out posts with certain terms in them. I have added terms likely to be used in political posts (Obama, Romney, Democrats, Republicans, etc.) to my filter, and have not seen that it works particularly well. But people are working on it.

I see spirited defenses of political positions on my facebook feed, but rarely do they cross lines. That said, I know from other Purgatory discussions that I frequently see innocent political argument where others see dog whistles, so maybe I would be surprised by what others see from some of my facebook friends.

Posted by Scarlet (# 1738) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
Are there any opinions, religious, political, or other, that your friends have expressed online that you think are completely beyond the pale? I understand shrugging off some ideas as being mere differences of opinion, or even factual errors, that have no significance to the relationship. But are there opinions that a friend might express, or has expressed, that you find so repugnant that it has caused you to think twice about their friendship?

Facebook is really superficial to me and I try to just read it that way. At the moment, most of my friends are polarized on the opposite political spectrum than I, and are in a faith I no longer adhere to. (Of course, I'm in the closet still about the faith issue, so even I treat fb as just surface chatter).

I've had a long-time friend be cruel to me on fb over my illness, but I already knew she can get mean and nasty at times, so we just ironed it out in a little online cat fight and carried on.

I did refuse to friend my sister because she treats all methods of communication (text, letters, private messages) as weapons, so I just ignored her, knowing I would be wounded sooner than later.

I survive by taking fb with a grain of salt. The line I draw would be "personal injury", not their differing world views or stances.

Posted by shamwari (# 15556) on :

I am a (very) sparing user of FB.

If one of my 'friends' posts a remark that I consider beyond the pale I hit the comment button and say 'Bollocks'

Posted by Loquacious beachcomber (# 8783) on :

This may sound somewhat startling coming from me, but I use my Facebook page primarily for family and church, and have a picture of a church as my "avatar" so appreciate decorum in what is posted or linked to it.
A year or so ago, a woman from a church I formerly served discovered my Facebook page and asked to be friended, when I did so, her adult daughter, who I also knew fairly well from ministry, did the same.
Then, her daughter began posting comments laced with the "F-word" and containing TMI regarding sexuality and its practices.
I am not certain what her mother felt about all of this openess, but I quickly blocked the young woman from posting or linking anything onto my Facebook page, although she still shows up in my (fairly brief) list of friends, so others can read her "top ten ways to assure yourself of daily orgasms" type posts if they click her link.

Posted by BessHiggs (# 15176) on :

I mostly use FB to promote my business and keep folks up to date on all the doings at the bar. As a result, I have rather a large (IMO) number of "friends", most of whom have opinions drastically different than mine. That being said, I tend to avoid commenting on or posting about anything political or religious simply becsuse so much of my life is lived out in the public view, I prefer to keep some aspects private.

Posted by Grits (# 4169) on :

Facebook tells me that some of my friends are political idiots.

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BessHiggs:
As a result, I have rather a large (IMO) number of "friends", most of whom have opinions drastically different than mine.

Are you and your friends not both of the same opinion that they should come by your place and drink beer?

Posted by Anselmina (# 3032) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
But haven't you ever wondered how you could stay friends with a racist? Even before Facebook?

I think that's an important question. I remember being shocked many years ago finding out in a casual conversation that my landlady - who was so generous and hospitable to me - would as a matter of course turn away black applicants for her rooms. I remember saying to her that in another era she might've also refused me a room as I was 'Irish'! But I still continued to like her tremendously and recognized the kindness she could display, even though I could never have agreed with her view.

Similarly, I remember a long-ago home communicant who at times was only slightly to the right of Atilla the Hun. We did have some discussion about some of her views - but I wasn't there to lecture so much as to befriend, so I wouldn't have gone 'purgatorial' on her! Besides, more detailed and earnest conversation wasn't really possible until she felt comfortable with me in her home, sharing communion. I took her communion for some years, starting out wondering if I would ever even get to like her - and finally leaving the area very sorry to say 'goodbye', and feeling considerable affection for her.

And some people I know who I otherwise respect and genuinelly like very much indeed, have had the most intransigent and negative views on women and homosexuals. But because I had to relate to them on many levels, including the personal and pastoral, I could never reject them as beyond the pale no matter how much we disagreed.

Maybe having gone through some of life trying to work out how to live with each other in our imperfections, FB isn't quite so tough in that respect.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

To take a very extreme example, I simply could not be friends with someone who thought all women who get raped are asking for it. On the other end of the spectrum I have friends who sincerely (albeit foolishly) believe certain political/financial courses of action will result in prosperity for all. Somewhere in there is a line, fuzzy and jagged, between agree-to-disagree and hit-the-road-Jack.

Posted by moonlitdoor (# 11707) on :

quote:

originally posted by Josephine

A very dear friend of mine has decided that he cannot morally allow racist or misogynistic or homophobic remarks to pass unchallenged. Doing so makes him, in his mind, complicit in the unjust social structures that allow the bigotry to continue, and to do real harm to real people.

As a result, he's found it almost impossible to be on Facebook

The attitude of Josephine's friend seems odd to me. Does he escape his complicity in the way the world is by not logging onto Facebook ? I don't mean that to sound as sarcastic as it does but the same people write the same things whether he reads them and ignore them or does not read them at all, so I don't see why the distinction should bear much moral weight. I don't think the writers can even tell whether he has read them or not, though I could be wrong as I am no Facebook expert. But if they can't indeed tell, silence can hardly imply consent.

Posted by BessHiggs (# 15176) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:

quote:
Originally posted by BessHiggs:
As a result, I have rather a large (IMO) number of "friends", most of whom have opinions drastically different than mine.
Are you and your friends not both of the same opinion that they should come by your place and drink beer?

In general yes, but judging from the massive amounts of Natural Light I sell, we do not share an opinion on what constitutes an acutal beer [Big Grin]

Posted by Mere Nick (# 11827) on :

quote:
Originally posted by BessHiggs:

quote:
Originally posted by Mere Nick:

quote:
Originally posted by BessHiggs:
As a result, I have rather a large (IMO) number of "friends", most of whom have opinions drastically different than mine.
Are you and your friends not both of the same opinion that they should come by your place and drink beer?
In general yes, but judging from the massive amounts of Natural Light I sell, we do not share an opinion on what constitutes an acutal beer

Veritable Philistines.

Posted by Eleanor Jane (# 13102) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:

quote:
Originally posted by Mama Thomas:
But haven't you ever wondered how you could stay friends with a racist? Even before Facebook?
That's sort of what triggered this thread for me. A very dear friend of mine has decided that he cannot morally allow racist or misogynistic or homophobic remarks to pass unchallenged. Doing so makes him, in his mind, complicit in the unjust social structures that allow the bigotry to continue, and to do real harm to real people.

As a result, he's found it almost impossible to be on Facebook.

And I've found myself wondering what the moral limits are to tolerating intolerance or immorality. I've had a couple of people unfriend me (and one even blocked me) because I said positive things about Planned Parenthood. That made me, in their minds, a baby killer, a supporter of infanticide, a deeply evil person.

I don't want to live in a filter bubble, where the only opinions I ever hear are opinions I already agree with. I think it's important, for many reasons, to hear and understand what other people think. Even when I think that what they think is reprehensible. How can you counter it, if you don't know anyone thinks that?

But if you don't say anything, if you don't counter it, are you complicit in their evil? If you don't say anything, and they are left with the impression that you agree with them, does that strenghten them in their views?

I've been thinking about it a lot. And I wanted to know what other people thought, and how others deal with it.

This xkcd comic sums up my attitude. I use Facebook for reasonably close friends and I don't want to be friends with people who have views I find abhorrent. I have also blocked/unfriended parents who only post soppy/ gross updates about their offspring.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

I actually kind of get the updates about kids. I have a few friends who live far away from their parents (in my sister in law's case, across the Pacific), and Facebook is the best way for them to keep grandma and grandpa up to date about what their grandchild did today. Posting every day might get a little excessive, and I wouldn't want too much information about where my kids were online, but I would rather put up with pictures of your kids acting cute than the picture you re-posted from your favorite candidate's page.

(I can also imagine that the internet is a life saver for stay-at-home parents on days that they do not get out to play group. You have to have some interaction with the real world to stay sane.)

[ 11. October 2012, 22:28: Message edited by: Og, King of Bashan ]

Posted by The Silent Acolyte (# 1158) on :

quote:
The question Josephine didn't ask:
What Facebook tells your friends about you?

That I'm troglodyte? Or, that I refuse to submit to being a product for a multi-billion dollar enterprise?

Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:

quote:
The question Josephine didn't ask:
What Facebook tells your friends about you?
That I'm troglodyte? Or, that I refuse to submit to being a product for a multi-billion dollar enterprise?

Probably off-topic. But that's what I really object to.
Facebook's customers are their advertisers, and they have the attitude that if they can make money out of it, then they can do whatever they like with what you post. It's an investment decision without concern for morality. Perhaps google once had the motto "Don't be Evil". From the start Facebook has acted as though Google's motto is for wimps.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

The thing that made me finally sure I'd never have an account was my daughter's recent irritation with Firefox. She had a Facebook account at university from necessity as that's the way information was disseminated. It was set up with her university e-mail account and when she graduated she deleted, several times over, her Facebook account. It took several goes. The e-mail account went too. She still, over a year later, can't use Firefox without it data mining and sending the information to Facebook.

I'm resigned to having information gathered about my internet use, but I really do not see why I should be giving information that Facebook can use to make Mark Zuckerberg even richer.

Posted by Scarlet (# 1738) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Josephine:
But if you don't say anything, if you don't counter it, are you complicit in their evil? If you don't say anything, and they are left with the impression that you agree with them, does that strenghten them in their views?

In the strictest sense, probably I am giving silent assent if I ignore an opportunity to debate an outrageous view, which makes me complicit in their evil. But really, what can I do except escalate the insanity?

It's kind of like not feeding the trolls or giving glory to vandals (as we say on Wikipedia). Silence by just ignoring and scrolling past is effective. If I get no comment or no "likes" to something I say, then I realize I've been a dud.

I'm more worried over the things in my real life that I ignore: the woman I saw beating her dog with a metal stick outside my apartment window the other day... [Frown]

Posted by the long ranger (# 17109) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
The thing that made me finally sure I'd never have an account was my daughter's recent irritation with Firefox. She had a Facebook account at university from necessity as that's the way information was disseminated. It was set up with her university e-mail account and when she graduated she deleted, several times over, her Facebook account. It took several goes. The e-mail account went too. She still, over a year later, can't use Firefox without it data mining and sending the information to Facebook.

I'm resigned to having information gathered about my internet use, but I really do not see why I should be giving information that Facebook can use to make Mark Zuckerberg even richer.

There seems to me to be an easy solution to that: remove firefox and either reinstall or install a different browser.

Posted by mousethief (# 953) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
Facebook's customers are their advertisers

This has always been true of every for-profit media outlet. Television network, newspaper, radio station, whatever. The purpose of the clever TV show, interesting news item, finger-snapping pop song, is to draw an audience for the advertisers. Complaints about Facebook from people who still sell their attention to those media outlets ring hollow to me.

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

She's not using Firefox, she's using Chrome, it's not normally an issue - until we were looking up something specific.

Posted by Kelly Alves (# 2522) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

What I'm beginning to find hard to handle is her apparent obsession with the topic of abortion. It seems like 3/4 of her posts are links or repostings of material about anti-abortion campaigns. Many are about people who are 'failed abortions' or who were adopted rather than aborted, and their testimonies.

I have a friend who used to post similar stuff.

One, she has been in my life long enough to qualify as a sort-of sister, two, her actual sister is one of my dearest friends, three, if I am going to rejoice publicly every time Marriage Equality takes a step forward-- and I do, loudly-- then I really just need to be humbly grateful that she keeps me on her list at all, when I think about unfriending her.

And having her on my list allowed me to be current with information when her husband died, suddenly and tragically. Being in a position to immediately offer her my support made all the ranting worth it. Really, like I said, the only thing that will push me to unfriending someone is when I feel like my friendship is not a commodity to them

Plus which, there is no law that says I have to thoroughly read everything that comes across my feed. If I see a link title that I know is only going to piss me off, I avoid it.

Posted by Latchkey Kid (# 12444) on :

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
Facebook's customers are their advertisers
This has always been true of every for-profit media outlet. ... Complaints about Facebook from people who still sell their attention to those media outlets ring hollow to me.

Which is why I no longer post on it.

Posted by Organ Builder (# 12478) on :

I have to admit I enjoy facebook a lot, but my attitudes--and my own use--continue to evolve. I also see some of the stuff which pushes my political buttons, as well as stuff that would have me rising up and hollering "Preach it!" After the election, I do expect to use the "Hide Post" feature less...

I have a wide variety of people on my facebook list. I've reconnected with friends and acquaintances from high school and college. Often, I've rediscovered why we drifted apart--because we really have nothing in common. Sometimes, I've discovered I like them a lot more now than I did then--and that's been very special.

I have the usual assortment of relatives--including some I've never met in person, but with whom I connected when I began to be interested in genealogy and family history (and if that doesn't say I'm of a "certain age", nothing will). Some of the relatives will take every chance they can to "like" something about Jesus, as though facebook could be an act of worship. Others have absolutely no filters. It's been...interesting. It has particularly been eye-opening to discover family members of my mother's generation who are a lot more earthy than Mother ever allowed us to know.

I have a number of clients and business associates. Since those relationships need to remain cordial, I usually avoid political postings on my page, but not all of them follow the same rule...I hide posts if I need to.

Finally, I have a small number of Shipmate friends. It's been an honor to learn more about them, and I haven't found a one who underwent "personality change" from what I've seen on the Ship--it's been more as though a black-and-white picture went to color.

The variety makes my newsfeed interesting. I do try to make certain I put something up on my page every week or so--if I'm going to enjoy other peoples posts I feel an obligation to contribute from time to time. I do take the attitude of my hip niece, though--this is MY page, and if you post something which isn't appropriate for my mix of friends I will delete it. (That's usually my brother, who has no filters and knows it. A PM when I do it has always kept the feathers unruffled).

As for discovering things about people--I try to remember a lesson from real life. My mother could, from time to time, make a comment that was eye-crossingly racist without realizing it. Her mother was much, much worse. It was simply a part of their upbringing in the South, and it certainly never occurred to my grandmother to question it. It did occur to my mother--and she worked hard not only to have a better attitude for herself, she worked hard to make certain my brothers and I were as free as possible of racist attitudes. I think she had some success, and her children have been well-served by her attempts even when we slipped, and weren't as good as we should have been.

So I try to recognize that even if people haven't fully "arrived" yet, they may already have made a much longer journey than I had to make. If they are open to reason (or Snopes) I'll usually PM first and see how it goes. I try to keep my darker side in PMs as well--not everything in anyone's life is sunny and cheerful, but not everything needs to be broadcast beyond a select inner circle of friends. In spite of that, I have recently been overwhelmed by the outpouring of support on facebook when I was in an auto accident. It is definitely a more positive than negative part of my life.

Posted by Arminian (# 16607) on :

Most of the Christians I know are raving evo -conservatives. This 'Daily Mail' mentality really winds me up. Anti gay, bigoted, hating the poor as scroungers, etc. etc. Of course they'd deny this, but their posts betray their true feelings.

I find that rational argument is impossible. Do you unfriend them or not ? I'd like to, but on the other hand if you don't engage them and take the abuse you don't challenge them. I most definitely aren't in 'their club'. It leaves you feeling that you are a second rate Christian - until you remind yourself that their attitudes stink and are exactly what Jesus came to challenge.

They are presently getting their kickers in a twist over gay marriage. Pointing out that polygamy and lesbianism wasn't a problem in the old testament is definitely not what they want to hear...

Posted by Ruudy (# 3939) on :

I try not to throw my pearls before swine.

Posted by Zappa (# 8433) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
There are a few people that I am willing to take on on Facebook

Posted by fluff (# 12871) on :

This is a funny OP. I have a Friend on Facebook - who is as it happens a Baptist Christian - who posts a great deal of material on peace/love/mercy/footsteps in the sand/kittens etc etc.

But this stream of sweetness is regularly interrupted with calls for the castration/hanging/burning/micro-chipping-in-the-head-of pedophiles! She also posts regular anti-Muslim stuff, of a slightly less extreme nature.

We do meet - though not very closely - in "real life" and I've not brought any of these issues up with her. She's always quite lovely. A friend of mine who has thought about these things suggests that this behavior is an example of the disinhibiting effect of posting on the internet - people will say things they might not say face-to-face. It's a bit like bar-room conversation, after a few drinks.

I have to say I have never looked at this woman in quite the same way.

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