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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Cadbury's Copyright Advent
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
I understand I must propose a topic for discussion in Purgatory, rather than just start a crusade against a "chocolate" manufacturer. So my topic for discussion is, would it right to boycott a company that tried to copyright the colour purple during the Chirstian season of Advent? And if it is right, how many shipmates will be vocally refusing to buy the nasty brown substance that Cadbury's manufacture and try to pass off as choclate this Christmas?
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
Are you sure that isn't just one specific pantone rather than all 'purple'?
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
Also it'll be a trademark and not a copyright. Which is relevant because trademarks have to be defended, unlike copyrights.
Whether such protection should be granted on something as broad as a specific colour is another matter.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
I don't think it is a copyright issue. Rather it is a trademark issue. Some companies are vigorous in protecting trademark rights. In this case, they asked a company that produces chocolate not to use purple. There is a case that the use of the same shade of purple which is a Cadbury trade mark could confuse someone into thinking that the chocolate was from Cadburys. Perhaps over-vigorous in this case, but fairly typical.
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
i was annoyed enough to temporarily choose another brand of chocolate
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Here is just one of Cadbury's colour trademarks.
You will see it is for a stated pantone.
Sometimes it isn't even a trademark issue but one of passing off which is another matter.
[ 19. October 2012, 13:21: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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dv
Shipmate
# 15714
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Posted
This is a non-story. Cadbury's apparently weren't even aware of the kerfuffle. It seems that Divine chocolate got bad advice from their own people and created a bit of publicity on the back of it. Nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 70 | From: Lancs UK | Registered: Jun 2010
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
But Cadbury has most certainly fought cases over the colour purple in the past.
This is what happened in Australia.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
But Cadbury has most certainly fought cases over the colour purple in the past.
This is what happened in Australia.
IANAL, still less an Australian one but 'misleading and deceptive conduct' does not look or sound like breach of trademark to me. How did the appeal go?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
But Cadbury has most certainly fought cases over the colour purple in the past.
This is what happened in Australia.
IANAL, still less an Australian one but 'misleading and deceptive conduct' does not look or sound like breach of trademark to me. How did the appeal go?
It is actually very close to trade marks. "Passing off", which was part of the case, is basically the unregistered version of trade marks. Cadbury hadn't got their shade of purple registered as a trade mark yet, not least because the Registrar refused to action their application while this dispute was going on.
Misleading and deceptive is a particular catch-all we have in particular legislation, but the principles are going to be largely the same no matter which route you use. Are you trying to make your products look like our products?
And the answer was a resounding no.
As far as I can recall Cadbury never got anywhere. In fact, while looking to see if I could find any later information, I discovered that it failed in several stages of the case even before the one I linked to.
What I found after this was that they had one more crack (their second) at alleging the judge was biased. That failed at the start of 2009. And then, they were supposed to go on with the main appeal... and it isn't in the law reports. Which can only mean they finally gave up.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
It seems to me that this is exactly the sort of thing that trademarks are for, and Cadbury's are perfectly entitled to assert their trademarks. The blogger cited in the OP seems to think bishops will be prevented from wearing purple etc. but I assume this is pure hyperbole. And Hairy Biker, if you think of Cadbury's chocolate as a "nasty brown substance" then I guess you wouldn't be buying it anyway and your boycotting it will have zero effect.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by the long ranger:
Are you sure that isn't just one specific pantone rather than all 'purple'?
Of course it is. If this company desperately wanted to use purple on their packaging they could just make it a tiny bit redder, bluer, darker or lighter and there'd be no problem.
But it's a complete non-story from start to finish. Just one more bit of multinational-bashing. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
You're right Jonah. I've tried to avoid the purple peril since they forced the EU to accept sub-standard vegetable oils as "chocolate" 12 years ago. Now they're owned by a US company, the country that gave us Hershey's, I'm susceptible to any slur on their reputation
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
orfeo,
I appreciate that 'passing off' and 'breach of trademrk' are close cousins, but this 'misleading and deceptive' appears open to one heck of a lot of interpretation! Is it a statutory thing, because, AIUI, passing off has centuries of case law behind it.
Thanks for the update though, and it shows how important it is for government departments, like your Registrar, to wait before they act, although it is also what companies complain about when you hear 'red tape gone mad'!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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John D. Ward
Shipmate
# 1378
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
to copyright the colour purple during the Christian season of Advent?
As other posters have already said, this is really a non-story.
Start worrying when they sue the clergy for wearing purple vestments ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 208 | From: Swansea, Wales, U.K. | Registered: Sep 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
You're right Jonah. I've tried to avoid the purple peril since they forced the EU to accept sub-standard vegetable oils as "chocolate" 12 years ago.
![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif) Not "sub-standard", it acutally helps the texture and softness of high-milk content chocolate. I'm no fan myself, I much prefer dark chocolate - I don't think I've bought a bar of milk chocolate for many years. But if you do like that sort of thing, the vegetable oils can make it taste better.
And they do have to put 'contains vegetable fats in addition to cocoa butter' on the wrapper so no-one is tricking you into eating stuff you don't want.
And although Cadbury's chocolate is unpleasantly bland, sweet, and sticky, its miles better than the tasteless crystallised cardboard that is Hershey's.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
Cadbury's chocolate is unpleasantly bland, sweet, and sticky
Some people have no taste ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
quote:
Originally posted by Hairy Biker:
You're right Jonah. I've tried to avoid the purple peril since they forced the EU to accept sub-standard vegetable oils as "chocolate" 12 years ago.
Not "sub-standard", it acutally helps the texture and softness of high-milk content chocolate.
If that were the case then Swiss milk chocolate would be inferior to British milk chocolate. Which is nearly a laugh but it's really a cry.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
I suppose if you like your chocolate to gum your mouth up with viscous cack, then vegetable oils count as an improvement. Anyway, Cadbury's mass-market gunk is a joke, though Hersheys is definitely even worse, tasting as it does of soap. Can't you people buy the real thing?
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I'm very glad that Ariel washing powder changed the colour of their tablet wrappers - every time I got one out to put on a washload I was reminded of chocolate....
Isn't it the number they have sole ownership of? A slightly different shade (and therefore a different number) would be fine. As everyone knows the number of ecclesiastical purple is 666. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
The painter Yves Klein trademarked a specific shade of blue.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
The painter Yves Klein trademarked a specific shade of blue.
See, that makes no sense to me. Cadbury doesn't want other chocolatiers using that shade of purple because consumers might be induced to buy the other chocolate, thinking it's Cadbury's. (Ones with poor eyesight, presumably, since the label says "Cadbury" right on it.) Are art patrons likely to think a painting not by Yves Klein is by Yves Klein because it uses a specific shade of blue?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
The painter Yves Klein trademarked a specific shade of blue.
See, that makes no sense to me. Cadbury doesn't want other chocolatiers using that shade of purple because consumers might be induced to buy the other chocolate, thinking it's Cadbury's. (Ones with poor eyesight, presumably, since the label says "Cadbury" right on it.) Are art patrons likely to think a painting not by Yves Klein is by Yves Klein because it uses a specific shade of blue?
Art experts might find this is exactly what exposes a fake.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
The painter Yves Klein trademarked a specific shade of blue.
See, that makes no sense to me. Cadbury doesn't want other chocolatiers using that shade of purple because consumers might be induced to buy the other chocolate, thinking it's Cadbury's. (Ones with poor eyesight, presumably, since the label says "Cadbury" right on it.) Are art patrons likely to think a painting not by Yves Klein is by Yves Klein because it uses a specific shade of blue?
Art experts might find this is exactly what exposes a fake.
I don't understand. Using the exact same shade of blue as the master proves it's a fake?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
The painter Yves Klein trademarked a specific shade of blue.
See, that makes no sense to me. Cadbury doesn't want other chocolatiers using that shade of purple because consumers might be induced to buy the other chocolate, thinking it's Cadbury's. (Ones with poor eyesight, presumably, since the label says "Cadbury" right on it.) Are art patrons likely to think a painting not by Yves Klein is by Yves Klein because it uses a specific shade of blue?
Art experts might find this is exactly what exposes a fake.
I don't understand. Using the exact same shade of blue as the master proves it's a fake?
I quote Wikipedia (because linking to it is a pig and I haven't quoted a lot):
"While it is often said that the method for creating International Klein Blue was patented by the artist, this is not entirely true. Klein's 1961 patent had little to do with the chemical composition of the color, instead describing a method by which Klein was able to distance himself from the physical creation of his paintings by remotely directing models covered in the color".
So it isn't the colour, but the process in which the colour is used, AFAICT.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
Don't judge all US chocolate by Hershey's. Ghiradelli is excellent.
(And now I'm remembering that once, long ago, I introduced Erin to Green & Blacks Maya Gold, and she appointed me her dealer...)
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
... But it's a complete non-story from start to finish. Just one more bit of multinational-bashing.
It does take up media space that might otherwise be devoted to more meaningful multinational-bashing e.g. criticism of labour policies, environmental impacts, etc. So it might be considered to be useful rodeo-clown-distraction multinational bashing. But I loved Hershey's as a kid, so what do I know.
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
orfeo,
I appreciate that 'passing off' and 'breach of trademrk' are close cousins, but this 'misleading and deceptive' appears open to one heck of a lot of interpretation! Is it a statutory thing, because, AIUI, passing off has centuries of case law behind it.
Yes, it's a statutory thing, with a lot more definitions and tonnes of case law.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
(Ones with poor eyesight, presumably, since the label says "Cadbury" right on it.)
And this is exactly why their claim to the colour is/was so ridiculous. Is there any evidence whatsoever that they want to use JUST the colour on their packaging, without putting a rather large and recognisable Cadbury logo on it?
Their own usage is denying the proposition that the colour itself is a distinctive mark.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Bean Sidhe
Shipmate
# 11823
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Posted
'Everyone's a fruit and nut case...'
(sorry, ancient Cadbury's jingle... I'm getting old.)
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How do you know when a politician is lying?
His lips are moving.
Danny DeVito
Posts: 4363 | From: where the taxis won't go | Registered: Sep 2006
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Sadly, Bean Sidhe, after reading that, I found I could sing the whole thing to myself.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Don't judge all US chocolate by Hershey's. Ghiradelli is excellent.
(And now I'm remembering that once, long ago, I introduced Erin to Green & Blacks Maya Gold, and she appointed me her dealer...)
It's worth noting that Green and Blacks is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Cadbury.
And as Ken so graciously put it the addition of veg oils is what makes Cadbury milk chocolate taste the way it does. And I know I'm not alone in liking it rather a lot.
Of course, as any true-Brit-chocoholic will tell you, Cadbury use different recipes in different parts of the world - I believe this is because the UK version is most delicious because it basically melts at body temperature. In hotter climes this is a problem...
As I understand it, Swiss milk chocolate is made to a similar philosophy...
Of course, YMMV...
Otherwise, nothing to see here...
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bean Sidhe:
'Everyone's a fruit and nut case...'
(sorry, ancient Cadbury's jingle... I'm getting old.)
There's another thread covering one's first thought on hearing that tune. I can't remember which ballet though, so I can't be an intellectual.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
As I understand it, Swiss milk chocolate is made to a similar philosophy...
And yet, amazingly, they are able to do it without vegetable oil. Are British chocolatiers just stupid, then?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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anne
Shipmate
# 73
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Posted
Finally a thread on a topic I really know something about. Chocolate is one of the few areas in which I can consider myself something of an expert. None of the main chocolate companies could assure me (when I wrote to ask about a decade ago) that their confectionary didn't include any cocoa produced by slave labour. Because the cocoa that they use is traded internationally, it's almost impossible to prove provenance. The only way to avoid this is to buy fair trade, organic or pretentious 'individual grower' chocolate, because, for different reasons, these manufacturers can trace the origin of their ingredients and the way in which it's grown.
So I don't buy Cadburys Dairy Milk, but do buy Green and Blacks.
Except, of course, this thread isn't really about chocolate, it's about marketing. Cadburys use a specific Pantone shade of purple in their marketing and seek to prevent other people who make similar products using the same colour.
The Meaningful Chocolate Company seem to have chosen a marketing strategy of "oooh look at us poor christians being attacked by nasty big business, pleeeease buy our chocolate, because that'll show 'em." At Easter our churches were all bombarded with whiny messages about how the nasty supermarkets wouldn't stock their eggs. Now, at Advent, it's horrid old Cadburys who have it in for them.
Rubbish. Having tasted their chocolate, I can tell them exactly why the supermarkets don't want to know - it's nasty and expensive and no-one will buy it. If it was good and offered value for money and people wanted to buy it, Mr Tesco and Mr Sainsbury would stack it to the ceiling.
If you want to buy a Fairtrade Egg for a child and teach them about the real meaning of Easter, just buy an egg from the Co-Op and take the child to a Messy Church Easter service, or an Easter Vigil or buy them a book or a DVD or even talk to them about Easter. Try the same same trick at Christmas. But don't fall for this sob story from the marketeers.
Anne
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‘I would have given the Church my head, my hand, my heart. She would not have them. She did not know what to do with them. She told me to go back and do crochet' Florence Nightingale
Posts: 338 | From: Devon | Registered: May 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Aren't Green & Blacks owned by Cadbury's ?
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
Ghiradelli are owned by Lindt.
Both use coconut oil now in their chocolate.
My wife is allergic to coconut oil, which actually makes eating things increasingly difficult as for reasons of cheapiness, that's what a lot of companies use now to allow their chocolate to take freezing.
Ben & Jerry's ice cream is out, for example.
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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anne
Shipmate
# 73
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Aren't Green & Blacks owned by Cadbury's ?
Yes - but because Green and Blacks chocolate is organic (and mostly fairtrade too) they can trace their cocoa back to specific growers and check the conditions under which farmworkers are employed. Once cocoa enters the international 'bulk' market, this kind of tracibility becomes impossible. Cadburys Dairy Milk is made using cocoa from the international trading market.
It may seem like hair-splitting, but the difference matters to me.
anne
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‘I would have given the Church my head, my hand, my heart. She would not have them. She did not know what to do with them. She told me to go back and do crochet' Florence Nightingale
Posts: 338 | From: Devon | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Ghiradelli are owned by Lindt.
Both use coconut oil now in their chocolate.
They may use it in their milk chocolate, but not in dark chocolate.
Here is the ingredient list for an 85% Cocoa Lindt bar. quote:
Chocolate, cocoa powder, cocoa butter, demerara sugar, bourbon vanilla beans.
Here is the ingredient list for a 86% Cacao Ghirardelli bar. quote:
Bittersweet chocolate (unsweetened chocolate, cocoa butter, sugar, milk fat, soy lecithin--an emulsifier), vanilla, natural flavor
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Huia
Shipmate
# 3473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
As everyone knows the number of ecclesiastical purple is 666.
DMC stranded cotton, which I use in my cross stitch, uses the number 666 for their Christmas Red. I did wonder if it was just co-incidental ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
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Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.
Posts: 10382 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Ghiradelli are owned by Lindt.
Both use coconut oil now in their chocolate.
They may use it in their milk chocolate, but not in dark chocolate.
Here is the ingredient list for an 85% Cocoa Lindt bar. quote:
Chocolate, cocoa powder, cocoa butter, demerara sugar, bourbon vanilla beans.
Here is the ingredient list for a 86% Cacao Ghirardelli bar. quote:
Bittersweet chocolate (unsweetened chocolate, cocoa butter, sugar, milk fat, soy lecithin--an emulsifier), vanilla, natural flavor
Moo
Interesting how you have those ingredient lists at your fingertips, Moo.
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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moverly
Shipmate
# 4658
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Ghiradelli are owned by Lindt.
Both use coconut oil now in their chocolate.
They may use it in their milk chocolate, but not in dark chocolate.
I don't see vegetable oil in the ingredients of the (Swiss-made) Lindt milk chocolate bar I have in front of me either (sugar, cocoa butter, milk powder, cocoa mass, lactose, soy lecithin, malt extract, flavouring).
But smooth textures in chocolate don't just stem from additives. Correct processing of the chocolate mass, like concheing, helps with the texture. Perhaps different brands differ in the amount of time they spend on this step? I'm not an expert, but it sounds plausible to me that the amount of time spent processing the chocolate could be a major price factor.
Posts: 293 | From: in a hilly land | Registered: Jun 2003
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Hairy Biker
Shipmate
# 12086
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anne:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Aren't Green & Blacks owned by Cadbury's ?
Yes - but because Green and Blacks chocolate is organic (and mostly fairtrade too) they can trace their cocoa back to specific growers and check the conditions under which farmworkers are employed. Once cocoa enters the international 'bulk' market, this kind of tracibility becomes impossible. Cadburys Dairy Milk is made using cocoa from the international trading market.
It may seem like hair-splitting, but the difference matters to me.
anne
Yes they are a Cadbury subsidiary and yes they are organic. I can't opine on which makes their chocolate so poor, but boy it is bad for what used to be an independent. I find all the G&B dark chocolates to be watery and gritty and the milk ones over-sweet. According to David from Divine, it's quite hard to make organic chocolate because the plant is a bit susceptible to pests, so growers don't often risk dumping the chemicals. If you want the fair-trade label Divine is very good, though their milk chocolate does taste a bit of boiled milk, or if you can live with "fairly traded" it's got to be Hotel Chocolat - especially if you can get their single-estate stuff (they even do a 100% bar i.e. with no sugar in it). Or find some small local outfit to support.
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there [are] four important things in life: religion, love, art and science. At their best, they’re all just tools to help you find a path through the darkness. None of them really work that well, but they help.
Damien Hirst
Posts: 683 | From: This Sceptred Isle | Registered: Nov 2006
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the long ranger
Shipmate
# 17109
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Posted
I'm sorry to drag this away from the merits of different brands of confectionery, but I've been wondering about the following:
Surely Cadbury are mostly worried about someone 'hood-winking' consumers into believing that they're buying a Cadbury product. And so, presumably, they could argue that another company is exploiting the visibility of their brand by using a colour in the packaging which is only similar to their pantone.
I am not a lawyer, I was just wondering to myself about the flexibility within the system for a competing brand to try to capture something of the 'essence' of a popular brand.
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"..into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth,” “But Rabbi, how can this happen for those who have no teeth?”
"..If some have no teeth, then teeth will be provided.”
Posts: 1310 | Registered: May 2012
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Russ
Old salt
# 120
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
I don't think it is a copyright issue. Rather it is a trademark issue.
I think that's an important distinction. Copyright is a claim of intellectual property. No colour is anyone's property.
Misreporting the issue as one of privatising the spectrum is guaranteed to inflame readers, which is why there's a temptation for tabloids and bloggers to do it...
Best wishes,
Russ
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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas
Posts: 3169 | From: rural Ireland | Registered: May 2001
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by anne:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Aren't Green & Blacks owned by Cadbury's ?
Yes - but because Green and Blacks chocolate is organic (and mostly fairtrade too) they can trace their cocoa back to specific growers and check the conditions under which farmworkers are employed. Once cocoa enters the international 'bulk' market, this kind of tracibility becomes impossible. Cadburys Dairy Milk is made using cocoa from the international trading market.
It may seem like hair-splitting, but the difference matters to me.
anne
Actually Daily Milk has been Fairtrade for around 2 years now... Interestingly, G&B only relatively recently have received the FairTrade mark for all of their products because iirc, despite being founded on ethical principals, some of their ingredients were harder to certify.
Similarly Cardbury - buy most of their cocoa from Ghana and have a long-term relationship with the local growers and communities even before they had the Fairtrade mark.
This is the reason why the G&B owners specifically chose to sell to Cadbury and no-other company. And why they were 'concerned' when Kraft bought out Cadbury.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
This is the ingredients list from Cadbury' dairy milk chocolate:
quote:
Ingredients: Ingredients: Full Cream Milk, Sugar, Cocoa Mass, Cocoa Butter, Milk Solids, Emulsifiers (Soya Lecithin, 476), Flavours. May contain traces of Nuts. Milk Chocolate contains Cocoa Solids 26%, Milk Solids 28%
Where is the coconut oil ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Is there any evidence whatsoever that they want to use JUST the colour on their packaging, without putting a rather large and recognisable Cadbury logo on it?
Their own usage is denying the proposition that the colour itself is a distinctive mark.
So no company can honestly apply more than one trade mark to one product? Unfortunately the courts wouldn't agree with you. The let Coca-Cola defend its trade marks against other people who might want to sell fizzy pop in small bottles with a waist and a logo in an old-fashioned American script and a particular shade of red on the packaging. The shape and the colour and the typeface and the name can all be considered trade marks.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
This is the ingredients list from Cadbury' dairy milk chocolate:
quote:
Ingredients: Ingredients: Full Cream Milk, Sugar, Cocoa Mass, Cocoa Butter, Milk Solids, Emulsifiers (Soya Lecithin, 476), Flavours. May contain traces of Nuts. Milk Chocolate contains Cocoa Solids 26%, Milk Solids 28%
Where is the coconut oil
Nowhere to be seen in that one, clearly. Cadbury has had a chequered career with adding and removing palm oil from its dairy Milk bars - most recently in Aus/NZ market. This link leads to an article covering that (though they subsequently removed it again due to protests).
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
(Mind you, coconut oil is one of the healthier fats - much more so than the stuff you'll find in almost and spread or butter. I think palm oil is different ?)
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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