Ship of Fools: 20th / 21st century 'classical' music

Thread: 20th / 21st century 'classical' music Board: Oblivion / Ship of Fools.

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Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

I used to be one of those charming tweedy fuddy-duddies who thought that "proper" music more or less died with Mahler and that, after him, the concert-going public were conned into listening to stuff that could have been composed by taking a small chamber orchestra and pushing them down a flight of stairs.

Obviously there were exceptions - usually composers who weren't "real" 20th century composers, like Strauss and Rachmaninov. But normally if a modernish piece turned up on a concert programme, it was there to be endured until we got to the Beethoven.

But in the last few years I've been listening to more and more 20th century music, and I wondered if we might swap some opinions, reviews, and recommendations? And of course, we can argue about who counts as 20th/21st century - I'd put Mahler on one side of the divide, for instance, but Bartok the other, even though their careers overlapped.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

The Hindemith piano sonatas are eminently listenable, especially Glenn Gould's recording thereof.

I also like Samuel Barber.

And of course there's Ralph Vaughan Williams.

[edited to add]: Oh, and Aaron Copland.

[ 22. November 2012, 23:32: Message edited by: Amanda B. Reckondwythe ]

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

Stravinsky. Always one to draw crowds to the concert hall. Even his 12 tone phase sounds like real music.

Currently listening to Philip Glass's solo piano pieces Metamorphosis. Number 2 is particularly stunning.

And then there's Gershwin's Porgy and Bess as interpreted by Miles Davis, though whether this counts as "classical" is moot. But then I like it where different genres of music collide.

Posted by Hilda of Whitby (# 7341) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
The Hindemith piano sonatas are eminently listenable, especially Glenn Gould's recording thereof.

I also like Samuel Barber.

And of course there's Ralph Vaughan Williams.

[edited to add]: Oh, and Aaron Copland.

Ditto Barber. I heard his song "Mary Hynes" sung by a small choir a good 35 years ago and was gobsmacked. I have never forgotten that song and the line 'she is a rune'.

Ditto RVW and Copland.

I am very fond of the operas by John Adams, particularly "Doctor Atomic" (go to YouTube and find the aria entitled 'Batter My Heart, Three Person'd God' from "Doctor Atomic" and be knocked out.) He also wrote an extremely moving piece called "On the transmigration of souls" about 9/11.

"Neruda Songs" by Peter Lieberson and sung by his wife Lorraine Hunt Lieberson ... absolutely exquisite. It is beyond sad that both of these brilliant musicians died so young.

Henryk Gorecki's 'Symphony No. 3' with vocals by Dawn Upshaw is haunting, tragic, and stunning.

The opera "Dialogues of the Carmelites" by Poulenc is wonderful.

I could go on. Very fine classical music was written in the 20th century and I am sure it will continue.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

Mahler's an ancestor of the 20th Century—it's a half-step from him to Schoenberg, another half to his student Berg, a slide to the left to Webern, and, well, you're at serialism then.

Actually, let's start with Webern. Six Bagatelles for String Quartet has more music in four minutes than you'd find in a whole Wagner opera, and, if you have any affinity for the 'cello at all, you owe it to yourself to spend the ten minutes it'll take to hear his Three Little Pieces thrice over. There's not another composer who knows how to use tone color like Webern, and 'celli have such a diverse range here that someone who brings timbre to the forefront, rather than letting it be a side element of orchestration—well, it shows off the instrument incredibly well.

Next up: Iannis Xenakis. Do I like his 'cello pieces? Am I predictable much? Is this rundown going to have much of a theme to it? Are bears Catholic? Does the Pope even go out in the woods? While some of Xenakis's other pieces and orchestral works, especially his musique concrète/architectural works are better known, Kottos and Nomos Alpha are amazing works for the contemporary 'cellist—look them up on YouTube so you can watch Rohan de Seram be awesome; he makes it sound easy, but watch what he's doing with his hands. He's good.

Backing off a bit: Philip Glass, Steve Reich, Terry Rieley, and John Adams. American Minimalism—which is a term none of the four likes applied to their music, but realizes that it's how the classifiers class them. While orfeo's a philistine with no taste, I think Glass is pretty good, if a bit . . . overexposed . . . at the moment (I hate to break it to you hipsters, but Glass was popular before I was even born—so no, not even I was listening to him before he was popular, just before he was cool); try his string quartets on for size, or his film scores. The Qatsi trilogy is especially famous; part the last features Yo-Yo Ma. Reich started off with tape loops and stepwise phasing (Clapping Music is especially fun to see live), but, later in life, started working in more complex and layered orchestral forms. Rieley, of course, did In C, which is the minimalist manifesto, and a great way to be sadistic if you're a performer. Nowadays, he's an old hippie who grabs his odd little orchestra and sings about how much he likes to smoke cannabis. Finally, Adams; if you like long, hypnotic, slowly changing, and generally tonal, he's the man for you. Also witty, especially in his more recent (and shorter) work; there's something just happy about John's Book of Alleged Dances.

Back to occasional WTF territory: Kronos Quartet. No, they don't compose, but they work with everyone who does. Emphasis on the "everyone." They've worked with everyone from Philip Glass to Indian pop singers to Bulgarian folk artists to everyone who will be mentioned on this thread to Trent Reznor. Grab Black Angels, crank up the volume, and let your ears rejoice. They'll never be the same again after that opening, "Flight of the Electric Insects."

And finally to "so normalish (but good!), I'm surprised nobody's raved about him yet" territory: Arvo Pärt. There are many things to say, I'm sure someone else will say them, but Kanon Pokajanen may be the most important one.

Oh, and just as a PS: Frank Zappa. His classical works got overshadowed by the pop and the inspired weirdness, but they're very . . . Zappa. You know what I mean.

[ 23. November 2012, 02:47: Message edited by: Ariston ]

Posted by Curiosity killed ... (# 11770) on :

I wondered if you'd get to Zappa in that list.

I like Arvo Part, but he reminds me of Penguin Cafe Orchestra - those same varying repetitions.

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Dotting back a bit, there's the under-appreciated George Lloyd (though I'm glad to see he now has his own Society).

Posted by fletcher christian (# 13919) on :

Oooooooh, too much interesting stuff to list. I used to think that music ended with Wagner and that everything after that was a type of regurgitation of his themes and ideas, and to some extent I still believe that, but some of it is glorious.

Britten is both playful and clever. Some of his music is hard on the ear, but I've found the more you listen with care, the more your ear becomes attuned to what he is actually doing and he produced some truly beautiful music.

Glass is good, but I often her too much Wagner in him and more recently he's tread a fine line of self parody and self plagerism.

Jennifer Higdon's City Scapes and Concerto for Orchestra is worth a listen. A curious set of works in a somewhat traditional style on first listen, but rewarding with further listens.

A few people have mentioned Steve Reich, and while I think he is very good, much of his music really must be experienced live. It's a form of musical theatre that can have a truly profound physical effect that can be a little alarming at times.

George Crumb - daring, mad, insane, impossible to listen too. If you want real boundary pushing stuff that doesn't sound like random notes thrown on a page, this is it.

Three more American's worth a listen: Michael Torke (jazz influenced), Michael Gordon (pulsing maddness and white noise player) and Graham Fitkin (strong rhythmic influence)

Michael Nyman - horribly overlooked because of his 'sell-out' to the soundtrack business, but essentially revived an interest in english modern music with his good early works

Anthony Kernis' Symphony in Waves has to be one of the finest and most melodic symphony's written in the 20th century, in an age when symphony's are becoming passe.

Langlais - if you want apocalyptic horror and beauty intertwined on an organ, this is your man.

I think I better stop

Posted by Pigwidgeon (# 10192) on :

Our Grammy Award-winning Phoenix Chorale does a lot of Ola Gjeilo's music. Their recording of his "Northern Lights" is amazing. (He worked so closely with the Chorale that he wound up marrying a member of it last spring!)

This summer at the Three Choirs Festival in Hereford, we heard compositions by Dobrinka Tabakova both in concert and at the Evensong which was broadcast by the BBC. Amazing stuff.

And Hilda of Whitby, I also heard John Adams' "On the transmigration of souls" at last year's Three Choirs. It's a moving piece, made more so for this American sitting in an English Cathedral, surrounded by a mostly English audience, and feeling such a sense of sympathy for the tragedy of 9/11.

Posted by ArachnidinElmet (# 17346) on :

I'm partial to a bit of Holst and Sibelius, and some Stravinsky and Part. There's quite alot of 20th/21st music that has to be listened to more than once to 'get your ear in'.

My mother (who loves classical music, but prefers a bit of a tune) has a theory that some of the more atonal stuff (I'm looking at you, Mr Birtwhistle) would make good soundtrack music; that it's more easily understood with visuals. I don't know how true that is for anyone else.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Philip Glass's solo piano pieces Metamorphosis. Number 2 is particularly stunning.

Oooh! I don't know his piano music. Thanks for mentioning it. I like his organ works, especially "Mad Rush".

quote:
Originally posted by Hilda of Whitby:
Henryk Gorecki's 'Symphony No. 3'

And his Miserere for large choir a cappella. I'd like to sing it before I die.

Posted by St. Gwladys (# 14504) on :

No-one's mentioned Karl Jenkins (The Armed Man, diemus, Palladio) or Einaudi. Or, for that matter, John Williams, who has written some fantastic music. I love "Jurassic Park", it's really lyrical in places.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

Ah! cross-post! Probably Jenkins' best-known piece is the Allegretto from Palladio, but his music is quite varied. I haven't explored as much of it as I'd like but there are some interesting requiems, other sacred music, and some pieces you might well recognize from elsewhere.

The "Adiemus" collection of choral music is sung in an invented language, the idea being that you focus on the music and emotions rather than a clearly defined verbal expression; some of the pieces sound a bit Enya-ish, IMO. I think he's worth exploring further, but YMMV.

[ 23. November 2012, 17:58: Message edited by: Ariel ]

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Langlais - if you want apocalyptic horror and beauty intertwined on an organ, this is your man.

See also Olivier Messiaen. My church is blessed with an organist talented enough to play the 20th century French masters, and while they are usually a bit out there, I always stay in my seat when I see them on the program.

Messiaen's Apparition de L'Eglise Eternelle might be one of the best things ever written.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

I think there's a difference between music you only here on radio/disc and a live performance. I originally heard Lutaslowski's Kadesh for Bartok on the radio and thought it unbearable. A few years later, I heard a live performance at a concert, found it very moving, and enjoyed it. The same with others of that school.

Part has written some very good music and we much prefer him to Messiaen. Copland, Bartok himself, Britten, Sculthorpe, and a whole range of others have written music we like very much. We don't like the minimalists, and think that they and the atonal school are better left as background or film scores. Ravel is (mostly) magnificent, especially the String Quartet. Stravinsky is outstanding. Otherwise, French music for many years has been out on its own limb and best left there. Rachmaninov's music was described in a play we saw as schlag mit schlagobers * but at least you can hear what's in it.

About a year ago, our ABC, the national broadcaster, took votes for the top favourites of the 20th century. Surprise, surprise, the names I've mentioned featured well, and there were no votes at all for composers favoured in a concurrent programme run by an academic....

*whipped cream with whipped cream on top

[ 24. November 2012, 01:05: Message edited by: Gee D ]

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

I became quite taken by Gerald Finzi when one of my friends performed his Eclogue for Piano and Strings in a concert a few years ago.

It's hard for me to get out of my comfort zone musically. Yet, there are rewards for making the effort (many times.) I remember thinking that 'Eclogue' reminded me of other familiar pieces, especially the strings. The piano jarred me out of that memory and into daring to think in terms of otherness being beautiful in a different way.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
... Messiaen's Apparition de L'Eglise Eternelle might be one of the best things ever written.

D. plays that - it's a v. good piece.

Talking of organ music, Howells' Master Tallis's Testament has a tingle factor that goes off the scale, and his choral music is sublime.

I'd also like to give an Honourable Mention to the Master of the Queen's Music, Sir Peter Maxwell Davies. Growing up in Orkney in the 1970s, I was weaned on Max's music (the part of Widow Grumble in his Cinderella was written for me [Cool]

). It isn't all farts and squeaks; it's often very cleverly written and sometimes very witty (his portrayal of guests at a wedding getting progressively more drunk in An Orkney Wedding, with Sunrise, is hilarious).

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

John Williams.
Paul McCartney. (He's done symphonic pieces.)

Posted by Masha (# 10098) on :

James Macmillan and Jonathan Dove for a bit of choral. Lovely stuff.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

Wow. Thanks, Shipmates. Lots to be going on with - lots of things I'd never heard of.

Amanda, thank you for the recommendation of Hindemith's piano sonatas. I found a recording of Gould playing no.1 today, and really enjoyed it.

I've also listened today to Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra. So beautiful!

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

Hindemith's organ music is very good too.

Posted by mark_in_manchester (# 15978) on :

CK said:

quote:
I like Arvo Part, but he reminds me of Penguin Cafe Orchestra - those same varying repetitions.

Me too. If you can spare 5:47 somewhere quiet and give it some attention, this is something lovely.

Posted by Darllenwr (# 14520) on :

I notice that nobody has mentioned William Walton yet. Very much a 20th Century composer (died in 1970, I think) he wrote a good deal of music for films (enough to get him frowned upon by some, I guess). Probably best known for his Cantata, "Beshazzar's Feast" and his suite of incidental music to accompany poetry by Edith Sitwell, "Facade", he wrote very much in the tradition of Vaughan Williams and Elgar, being influenced by both. His viola concerto is well worth your time

Posted by Albertus (# 13356) on :

I'd agree with much of what has been said so far: especially fond of the American Minimalists, Messaien, and- not mentioned yet AFAICS but in some ways the daddy of much C20 music- Charles Ives. But if you want to explore the C20 repertoire, about four years ago EMI produced an excellent boxed set called, I think, 20th Century Masterpieces which is well worth seeking out. 16 cds, from Rachmaninov through to Thomas Ades; very good recordings and ridiculously cheap - I believe you can get it for under £25.

Posted by Jack the Lass (# 3415) on :

I'd second the recommendation for Walton's Viola Concerto, and also his film music for the Olivier Shakespeare films, which is wonderful. Another viola concerto well worth catching is Bartok's. I went to a concert with it on the programme with very low expectations, but was blown away by it.

Shostakovich's 2nd piano concerto is another wonderful piece. The slow movement is heartbreakingly beautiful.

Another very under-rated 20th century composer I don't think's been mentioned yet is Michael Tippett. The oratorio "A Child of Our Time" is lovely, and he wrote a piano sonata which is harder work but worth a listen.

Finzi's Clarinet Concerto is a beauty (but I'm biased [Smile]

).

If you can get beyond "English Country Garden", some of Percy Grainger's music is fantastic. I'd particularly recommend "A Lincolnshire Posy" - it has been arranged for piano (or is it two pianos?) but the best version is for wind band. Exquisite.

And pretty much anything by Vaughan Williams is wonderful. Try Symphony No 5, which is my favourite - the first movement in particular is beautiful. And "Serenade to Music" (a setting of a speech from "The Merchant of Venice") is gloriously over the top but lovely. There is an old recording of Adrian Boult conducting the LSO in both which was the first vinyl record I ever bought [Smile]

ETA: And Poulenc! How could I forget Poulenc? The flute sonata is worth a listen, and he wrote some fabulous clarinet duets too.

[ 25. November 2012, 20:11: Message edited by: Jack the Lass ]

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

Today's discovery: Schoenberg's 3 Piano Pieces, op.11. I am hooked! It's a bit like what Ariston said about Webern upthread - concentrated music. So intense. (I listened to Webern's Bagatelles, too - fantastic!)

I don't know what the heck's going on inside my head, but I've had two solid days of "lightbulb moments" with this music....

Posted by Ricardus (# 8757) on :

Janáček and Martinů. Janáček especially for having written what is genuinely a space opera - called Mr Brouček's excursion to the Moon and into the fifteenth century.

Martinů is a sort of Czech Vaughan Williams in many ways. Lots of folk tunes with titles like 'The legend of the smoke from potato fires' as well as symphonies. Plus some rather strange operas.

Jaakko Mäntyjärvi for having written the only music I've ever encountered that's based on change-ringing: Psalm 150 in Grandsire Doubles (IIRC) and also in Kent Treble Bob Minor. He has some good Shakespeare song settings as well.

Posted by Arabella Purity Winterbottom (# 3434) on :

Shostakovich - just about anything, but my particular favourite is the second cello concerto. If you're looking for a recording, the original with Rostropovich is one of the most stunning recordings of anything, ever.

Seconding the recommendation for Peter Maxwell Davies. We did the whole O Magnum Mysterium and I loved it.

Frank Martin - the Mass for Double Choir (kind of off the beaten track, but very lovely).

Steve Reich - Tehillim (amazing piece, but I've never been brave enough to attempt it) and Music for 18 Musicians. Both pretty accessible, and I prefer Reich to Glass.

Posted by The Riv (# 3553) on :

I'm a ridiculous Ralph Vaughan Williams fan, and I love Sibelius, too. Glad Janacek and Martinu were mentioned, and for those who prefer more tonal sonorities, I'd remind everyone of Respighi.

LOTS of great recommendations in this thread. Kudos, All.

Posted by Og, King of Bashan (# 9562) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Jack the Lass:
And pretty much anything by Vaughan Williams is wonderful. Try Symphony No 5, which is my favourite - the first movement in particular is beautiful.

Symphony No 5, along with lots of Vaughan Williams' other works, has what has always struck me as a particularly cinematic sound. John Williams meets English folk music. I guess it makes sense, as Vaughan Williams was a pioneer in the field of movie scores.

(The satirical paper "The Onion" runs weekly horoscopes, and I remember one in particular that made me laugh but probably left a lot of readers with a confused look: "Gustav Holst will appear to you in a dream and refuse to leave until you agree that John Williams has been ripping him off for years." Ripping off is an exaggeration for comedic effect, but I think you could probably say something similar about Vaughn Williams' influence on John Williams.)

quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Janáček and Martinů. Janáček especially for having written what is genuinely a space opera - called Mr Brouček's excursion to the Moon and into the fifteenth century.

Did you just write that paragraph to show off your code kung fu? Impressive.

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Riv:
I'm a ridiculous Ralph Vaughan Williams fan, and I love Sibelius, too.

Yes, I had a Sibelius obsession at one point. Shostakovich is good too. There's one of his waltzes, from his Jazz Suite, that haunted me for years as an annoyingly catchy earworm before I finally caught it on the radio and was able to give it a label at last.

Also thanks to the radio I fell completely in love with Albeniz's "Asturias (Leyenda)" which I hadn't heard before. This is sometimes played as a piano piece, sometimes as a guitar piece, either way it's beautiful - passionate, moving, the kind of thing you have to immediately listen to again once it ends.

I also like Erik Satie's piano pieces, which have a sort of fin de siecle, quiet, delicate melancholy about them: quite evocative of the late Victorian Nineties.

Posted by balaam (# 4543) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
I fell completely in love with Albeniz's "Asturias (Leyenda)" which I hadn't heard before. This is sometimes played as a piano piece, sometimes as a guitar piece, either way it's beautiful

Thanks for putting a name to that, it as one of my favourite pieces of guitar music.

[You're most welcome. Unmusical code tidied up as well.]

[ 26. November 2012, 18:40: Message edited by: Ariel ]

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

Is Xenakis's Nomos Alpha supposed to be funny? Cos I laughed, twice. In a good way. It just struck me that there were these kitsch, jokey little passages in it here and there.

Oh, and I listened to some Penderecki today - [Eek!]

It turned out the bit I listened to had been used in The Shining. It fitted. But even in that bizarre, alien soundscape there's something attractive, something worth sticking around for.

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Is Xenakis's Nomos Alpha supposed to be funny? Cos I laughed, twice. In a good way. It just struck me that there were these kitsch, jokey little passages in it here and there.

I don't think so, but I think I know exactly which passages you're talking about. Some of those sounds are just so . . . strange . . . that they sound like old-time radio sound effects. Cool, to be sure, but it's hard to take anything that sounds like a slide whistle seriously, even if you know how damn hard that is to pull off.

ETA: I looked it up. Turns out, even the Wiki knows about it. No, humor sounds like the last thing this piece is supposed to evoke.

[ 27. November 2012, 02:09: Message edited by: Ariston ]

Posted by jedijudy (# 333) on :

[tangent]
It's nice to see you posting again, The Riv! [Big Grin]

[/tangent]

Here, I disagree with my fellow Host! Erik Satie is good only in very small doses. Once a year. Maybe. [Biased]

IMHO, of course!

Posted by Ariel (# 58) on :

quote:
Originally posted by jedijudy:
Here, I disagree with my fellow Host! Erik Satie is good only in very small doses. Once a year. Maybe. IMHO, of course!

A bit like the icing on a cake, you wouldn't want it at every meal, but nice now and again when you're in that kind of mood.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

Aaron Copland. "Fanfare For The Common Man", "Rodeo", etc.

Posted by Chamois (# 16204) on :

Messian can be funny as well. The movement in "Vingt Regards sur l'Enfant Jesus" where he does the creation of the Universe always makes me giggle - the Big Bang on solo piano.

I don't think anyone's mentioned James MacMillan yet. I love his church music but my favourite piece of his is "Tuireadh".

Posted by HCH (# 14313) on :

Perhaps one should include Leonard Bernstein's "Mass".

Posted by georgiaboy (# 11294) on :

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Perhaps one should include Leonard Bernstein's "Mass".

In all humble seriousness, Why?

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Perhaps one should include Leonard Bernstein's "Mass".
In all humble seriousness, Why?

I don't know the Mass, but I've liked the Bernstein I've heard - the orchestral arrangements from West Side Story and bits of Candide. (It might just be me, but I found that once you know that one of the characters in Candide has had her buttock bitten off by a shark, it becomes the only thing you can remember about the whole opera.)

Now, has nobody mentioned Ligeti? I've just listened to Lux Aeterna and it's exquisite.

Posted by piglet (# 11803) on :

quote:
Originally posted by The Riv:
I'm a ridiculous Ralph Vaughan Williams fan ...

There's nothing ridiculous about liking RVW - his music is wonderful. My Better Half has made an organ transcription of the Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis and it's utterly spine-tingling.

Posted by Golden Key (# 1468) on :

quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Perhaps one should include Leonard Bernstein's "Mass".

Oh, yes! And there's a film of a performance of it. (It's a symphony, and a mass, and musical.) Powerful stuff, IMHO.
[Cool]

Posted by Chamois (# 16204) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Oh, yes! And there's a film of a performance of it. (It's a symphony, and a mass, and musical.) Powerful stuff, IMHO.

I agree. They did it at the Proms this summer.

Posted by Fr Weber (# 13472) on :

Parts of Bernstein's Mass are indeed very good. But the imitation pop music is really embarrassing.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

When I posted before, I forgot the major Russians - Prokofiev and Shostakovich. His Preludes and Fugues are a masterwork of the very highest order.

In thinking of the music of the 20th century, we tend to forget that that is when people such as Respighi, Puccini, Vaughan Williams and others wrote most of their compositions. Our first thoughts are of the atonal school and then the silliness of musique concrete (not sure how that translates into English, if at all) and the more conventional composers are thought of as belonging to a previous age.

Posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe (# 5521) on :

quote:
Originally posted by piglet:
My Better Half has made an organ transcription of the Fantasia on a Theme by Thomas Tallis and it's utterly spine-tingling.

Any chance we can get a recording of it?

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
In thinking of the music of the 20th century, we tend to forget that that is when people such as Respighi, Puccini, Vaughan Williams and others wrote most of their compositions. Our first thoughts are of the atonal school and then the silliness of musique concrete (not sure how that translates into English, if at all) and the more conventional composers are thought of as belonging to a previous age.

1. Musique concrète doesn't translate. Or, I suppose it does, but it's one of those "translate it and people won't know what you're talking about" things. As for calling it silly, them's fightin' words. Give me early Steve Reich over the uninspired schlock Brahms wrote any day.
2. Requisite grumbling about the term "atonal." All sounds have tones, right? Still, fine, that's another Term Only Pedants Object To For The Sake Of Objecting—but, well, pedant.
3. The more "conventional" composers do (usually) belong to a previous age—or, rather, the reactionary Brahms tradition of making it a point to write music that never evolved beyond where Beethoven left it, besides the occasional dash of nationalism. Now, sometimes that "dash of nationalism" leads to interesting things, especially when the Russians start writing music using their native octotonic scales (hel-LO Petroushka!), but most of them were reacting against that foreign European conservationist/conservatory tradition Brhams started anyway.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

I am completely and utterly drawn in by the music of Vagn Holmboe (1909-1996).

Rated by a number of commentators as one of the great symphonists of the century. I started with the symphonies, I now have the string quartets, the works for violin + piano or violin solo, some other chamber music, and a large-scale work for string orchestra. And a whole lot more on the shopping list.

I was sufficiently annoyed and not being able to find a decent list of just what he had composed that I went and made one. And then put it on Wikipedia! [Big Grin]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
While orfeo's a philistine with no taste

Oi! You might at least NOTIFY me when you're slapping me around like that, instead of waiting for me to stumble across it days afterwards!

EDIT: Plus I really, really like lots of cello music. So if I have no taste, and I like cello music...

[ 30. November 2012, 00:42: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Masha:
James Macmillan and Jonathan Dove for a bit of choral. Lovely stuff.

Oh yes, I heard a CD of James Macmillan choral works once, and enjoyed it a great deal.

There was a particularly moving song about an execution... words by Pablo Neruda I think...

Posted by Ariston (# 10894) on :

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
While orfeo's a philistine with no taste
Oi! You might at least NOTIFY me when you're slapping me around like that, instead of waiting for me to stumble across it days afterwards!

EDIT: Plus I really, really like lots of cello music. So if I have no taste, and I like cello music...

Granted, I thought you'd be posting here five minutes after I had to see that. It was either this, or including barely-relevant links to Glassworks in my Hell posts just so you'd have to click on them. Take your pick.

And as for your attempted syllogism, it just means you have no taste. It's entirely possible you like 'cello music for not-strictly-musical reasons—because 'cellists are hot, for instance, or that playing 'cello music attracts people of your preferred gender.

Posted by Gee D (# 13815) on :

I only made the translation point in case an Admin thought it required one.

In one sense, you're right about atonal, but the word has another and very common usage as well.

Posted by L'organist (# 17338) on :

Poulenc's Gloria is fantastic, very exciting; his motets are also beautiful.

Maurice Durufle's Requiem; his motets, particularly Ubi caritas et amor are great.

And while, IMHO, a lot of Messiaen's organ stuff is deeply dull, his O sacrum convivium is spine-tingling.

Posted by orfeo (# 13878) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
It's entirely possible you like 'cello music for not-strictly-musical reasons—because 'cellists are hot, for instance, or that playing 'cello music attracts people of your preferred gender.

My CD collection isn't that visual.

PS The apostrophe is now very much an affectation. Seriously, dude. It's no longer just a piece of Italian abbreviation!

[ 30. November 2012, 11:36: Message edited by: orfeo ]

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

Well the last week and a bit has been quite a musical education for me. Thanks, all.

I wasn't quite as un-20th-century as I made out in the OP. I already knew and liked some of the pieces that have been mentioned here - bits of Vaughan Williams; bits of Britten - Peter Grimes is fantastic; Finzi's Eclogue and clarinet concerto; Shostakovitch's piano concertos; Prokofiev's 'Classical' symphony, 1st piano concerto, Lt Kije and Visions fugitives; Messiaen's Vingt regards and the Quartet for the End of Time.

Discoveries, thanks to this thread (if sometimes tangentially) -

Hindemith. Man, can he write a sonata! A well as the solo piano sonatas, I've now heard the piano sonata for 4 hands, the bassoon sonata (pure charm!), the viola sonata, and the clarinet sonata, which is quite Finzi-ish in places. Also the symphony Mathis der Maler.

Schoenberg. I'd heard Verklarte Nacht, but I've renewed my acquaintance with it, and also listened to the op.11, op.19 and op.25 piano works, and the piano concerto. He can really write for piano!

Webern. A major discovery. I love everything I've listened to this past week - the Passacaglia (especially), the six bagatelles,the three little pieces, the five pieces for orchestra op.10, and the symphony op.21.

Ligeti. Lux Aeterna, a smattering of the piano etudes, and Musica Ricercata, which is just brilliant.

Penderecki. Totally bonkers, but I really like Polymorphia and the string quartet no.1.

Arvo Part. I've not listened to much of him yet, but Pari intervallo was lovely, as was Festina lente.

Phew!

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :

On Radio 3 breakfast this morning I heard Jonathan Harvey's piece of unaccompanied voices, 'The Angels', which was hair-raisingly lovely. It should be available on listen again - it was on about 7.50.

I listened to it thinking, a) this is what the angels sing when they're not singing the Sanctus from the Mass in B Minor, and b) I must tell Adeodatus about this.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
On Radio 3 breakfast this morning I heard Jonathan Harvey's piece of unaccompanied voices, 'The Angels', which was hair-raisingly lovely. It should be available on listen again - it was on about 7.50.

I listened to it thinking, a) this is what the angels sing when they're not singing the Sanctus from the Mass in B Minor, and b) I must tell Adeodatus about this.

I read your post this morning, but I've had to wait till now to listen to 'The Angels'. It's very beautiful. Do you think the real angels wait till Bach's gone for a beer, and then sing it?

Posted by Firenze (# 619) on :

Possibly played to mark his translation to the world of angels (which befell a few days ago).

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :

Yes, it was -- it made me want to seek out more of his music.

Funnily enough, I never think of Bach going to the pub -- in heaven, though, maybe he's freed to be someone who could while away the afternoon ruminating and reminiscing and being quiet, instead of having to rush back for choir practice and finishing off yet another cantata.

Posted by ken (# 2460) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
Funnily enough, I never think of Bach going to the pub ...

Though apparently he did. And he liked a pint or eight. Not at all unusal for an 18th-century German. Also he liked his coffee and coffee-houses. Though the Coffee Cantata is about a man trying to get his daughter to drink less coffee (personal; experience for Bach?)

Posted by Niminypiminy (# 15489) on :

Of course you are right. I was thinking about how little time I would have for going to the pub if I had all those children and all those cantatas. But it is another one to file under 'men in the past had so much time because they had servants'.

Posted by Adeodatus (# 4992) on :

quote:
Originally posted by ken:

quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
Funnily enough, I never think of Bach going to the pub ...
Though apparently he did. And he liked a pint or eight. Not at all unusal for an 18th-century German. Also he liked his coffee and coffee-houses. Though the Coffee Cantata is about a man trying to get his daughter to drink less coffee (personal; experience for Bach?)

Actually, ken, it was an old post of yours I had in mind when I write the bit about Bach going for a beer. And I've tracked it down in Oblivion:

quote:
On the other hand Bach's music typically says: "Glory to God in the Highest! And Peace to his people on Earth! And Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive glory and honour and power! And isn't creation wonderful! And there is all this stuff going on in my head! Talking of which I've been up all night and could do with a coffee. No, make that a beer. In fact I want a double coffee AND a pint of lager. And shoot that bloody piano player. AND WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO PAY ME YOU TIGHT SAXON BASTARDS????"

(I remembered "When are you going to pay me you tight Saxon bastards?" and googled. [Big Grin]

)

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